Is Congress really going to take on a congressional perk?
Prediction: The following bill would have near-universal public support. From The Hill:
While vast numbers of the private-sector workforce have seen their pensions vanish over recent decades and find themselves with precarious, market-based 401(k) plans, members of Congress receive both a pension and a quality employer-match plan.
According to at least two lawmakers, it’s time for elected officials to join the real world.
“If you compare the private sector to what the folks in the federal government get, in the federal government you not only get healthcare benefits, you get a 401(k) that has a higher match than most private-sector companies,” Rep. Tim Griffin (R-Ark.) told The Hill.
“Then on top of that you get the pension,” Griffin said. “Most private-sector folks don’t get a pension.”
In an effort both to identify cost savings amid the nation’s growing debt crisis and to give federal lawmakers more credibility in addressing related financial issues, Griffin and Rep. Mike Coffman (R-Colo.) have recently introduced separate proposals for the elimination of pension benefits for members of Congress.
In mid-November, Griffin put forward legislation terminating congressional pensions for future elected officials. Two months earlier, Coffman introduced stricter legislation to eliminate lawmakers’ pensions.
I’ll believe this is more than political posturing when I see a bill actually become law — especially if said law applies to current members going forward, not just future ones. That said, I guess it’s a good sign of sorts that some pols believe there’s value in posturing this way. And a more solid reason for hope that this is part of a serious effort to fix the nation’s finances, not just score political points, comes later in the story:
Cutting member pensions and relying instead on the Thrift Savings Plan represents a savings of hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars. But, Griffin pointed out, that amount is just a drop in the bucket compared with the hundreds of billions that could be saved by eliminating pension benefits across the federal government.
“This for me is less about the money you save and it’s more about being credible when we take on the bigger issue of civil service pensions, because that is where the real money is,” Griffin explained.
More broadly, these kinds of efforts — again, if they are actually successful — represent perhaps a better option than term limits to curb political careerism. Make their retirement benefits more like those in the real world. Subject them to the same kind of insider trading laws imposed on people in the real world. Keep going in that vein, and maybe staying in Washington for decades won’t be so much more appealing than returning to the real world.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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195 comments Add your comment
Bill
November 30th, 2011
5:39 pm
Kyle,
You demonstrate a serious misunderstanding or social security. It is not and never was a pension plan. It was designed as a safety net. Most European countries have national pensions. It is not a radical idea.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
November 30th, 2011
5:39 pm
“That is an issue that really divides people of Kyle’s philosophy from others. They would love everybody who is employed, and especially federal employees, to be in a precarious position regarding the retirement.”
———————–
Pure ignorance. People who know things know that people work and save over a lifetime, something like 40 years. Morons think short term swings in the market decimate a lifetime worth of saving and growth. Yeah, if you made one investment before a market drop and sold it when it bottomed out, you lose. That’s not how it works in the reality-based world.
Stop being stupid.
Bill
November 30th, 2011
5:42 pm
Hillbilly,
Andrew Carnegie’s hypocrisy is exactly my point.
ld
November 30th, 2011
5:47 pm
I have no problem w/ending all entitlements and government supported benefits for individuals at a very specific date certain at least twenty-five years hence IF
all gov’t employee perks, specifically including but not limited to perks for current an/or past and/or future elected officials ends first, as in NOW
all ‘corporate wellfare’ and gov’t support (embasy/treaty/war) to benefit busienss, specifically including but not limited to business operating and employing persons overseas, ends NOW HERE AND ABROAD
have the gov’t buy farm products and distribute them to poor support lower food prices for the rest of us rather than pay to not use land, etc.
all business perks–including INSURING mega-for-profit business, corporate farms, financial institutions (deposits & for-profit private loans, etc.) and stuff I cannot now remember ends first, as in NOW
all perks for the rich or stupid–gov’t subsidized insurance or other support to rebuild in flood zones, coastal area ends first, as in NOW
AND, i m p o r t a n t l y, everyone in the employee class is given that quarter century LOUD NOTICE of this irreverisble policy so the next generation(s) can lose that ‘the great society’ mindset and prepare for their own retirement
INCLUDING by demanding fair/just wages NOW since no pensions/perks will not likely be forthcoming later even if contracted or promised.
Just saying, those that have depended on promises should have those promises kept.
Kyle Wingfield
November 30th, 2011
5:49 pm
Bill @ 5:39: Thus the “on steroids.”
ld
November 30th, 2011
5:51 pm
A a relative of mine retired and liquidated his 401K and bought into an annuity; if he’d waited one day later to do it, he would have lost somewhere in the neighborhood of $125,000. his holdings were diversified.
ld
November 30th, 2011
5:53 pm
Privatizing SS in the present form and investing it in the stock market like Bush et al wanted would have been and would be disasterous–mostly because of the degree greed and corruption of those involved with the stock market as compared to someone who has never even tried to learn about it–the kind of people that retire w/only SS to depend upon.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
November 30th, 2011
5:55 pm
They’ll just find new ways to scam the system, like buying a company and kicking back grant money to it. Like Team obozo does, for instance.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
November 30th, 2011
5:55 pm
If you believe the return on your SS contributions approaches what you’d get in the stock market, you aren’t very bright.
Look before I leap...
November 30th, 2011
5:58 pm
Just did some simple math:
If all members of congress were to leave office next year and all members had 20 years service and all were over the age of 50, the total pension payout per year is about $30M. If all of them live for 100 years after leaving office, cancelling the existing pension plan saves us $3B over 100 years.
In a federal budget of $1.2 TRILLION for just one year, $30M is a rounding error.
So even if this passes and it never will, it accomplishes little. I’d rather they focus on correcting some of the bigger issues.
Ironically, when the original congressional pension plan was enacted in 1946, one of the justifications was that it would encourage the old-timers to leave office, clearing the way for younger, “fresher” minds to enter federal politics.
Bill
November 30th, 2011
5:58 pm
Barry, SS is not an investment vehicle. That is not what it was designed for.
“To those whom much is given, much is expected.”
November 30th, 2011
5:58 pm
@UGA1999 November 30th, 2011 12:32 pm – Kyle…..because Carlos believes if you make $100k per year that you are rich! haha.
*******************************************************
Yes that is rich!
Ask a senior citizen who gets only $19,000 a year..
Ask a single mother with children.
Ask an unemployed worker whose benefits have expired.
Ask a child who goes to bed hungry.
Ask a homeless veteran.
Lets not be UNGRATEFUL! To a lot of people $100K is rich!
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”
ld
November 30th, 2011
5:58 pm
The USPO is dying; if those post offices were more diversified, including a United States Treasuary Bank office/ATM for cash (and debit card) transactions only and people were able to keep their ’savings’ in their ‘citizen’ account there w/zero interest or separate “savings bond” account for longer held accounts, then the US taxpayers would not need to insure the private for-mega-profit financial instuitutons — FDIC; FSLIC — and never need to bail them out again.
The USPO–US Public Offices could also do the census–even on an ongoing basis: who knows the community better than the postal carriers who have delivered mail for years?
The USPO, diversified, could also be the polling place for national elections–President, VP and members of the US Congress.
A security photo ID would be required and only US citizens would be permitted to use this US National Treasury Bank.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
November 30th, 2011
6:00 pm
Sorry Bill, I couldn’t help correcting the bit of ignorance that appeared, implying that SS provides a better retirement than investing in the stock market.
Streetracer
November 30th, 2011
6:02 pm
Bill:
100% minus 65% is 35% and 35% is well over 50% increase. It is ninth grade general math (or at least was way back when I was in school).
As far as $32 out of my pension, I don’t have a pension. I am well past 65 but still working. I will continue to work as long as I can for two reasons. 1) I like my job, and 2) had an injury that kept me at home where I couldn’t do much but feed myself and turn pages of a book. Much as I love my wife, that was just to much togetherness.
Kyle Wingfield
November 30th, 2011
6:10 pm
Look before @ 5:58: The fact that this measure alone wouldn’t save much money, relatively speaking, was in the OP.
“To those whom much is given, much is expected.”
November 30th, 2011
6:11 pm
The Republicans (Party of the Rich) want to freeze federal salaries, layoff federal workers and kill jobs to extend the payroll tax cut. This will hurt middle income families.
They have no shame. They protect the rich by all cost.
Nothing is trickling down but MISERY!
ld
November 30th, 2011
6:19 pm
just saying, insuring the banks has proved to be a very real perk for mega-for-profit PRIVATE-OWNED BUSINESS in the current and the prior administration.
In an ideal world:
outlaw hedgefunds
outlaw PACS and any and all entities that permit annonomous donations to campaigns
outlaw lobbyist–permit only those individual persons who can vote for a member of congress to “lobby” a member of Congress–an owner of any business that lives w/i the state where the business is based could lobby
only those that would be eligible to vote to fill an elected position would be able to donate to a political campaign for that office–keep campaigns as local as possible and, therefore–at least hopefully– less expensive
all persons running for public office would be required to list on their official website all campaign contributions that total more than a specific (relatively small) amount and could not be permitted to keep any contribution for which they do do not have full name and street address of donor
prohibit out of state interest$ from being involved in any election w/i each state–ads
yeah, dream on
then there’s the presidental campaign
but, since “public airways” and/or the internet–developed w/gov’t funding– are used for campaigning, some demand of time from every major provider to vet candidates for president in exchange for the use of the airways and internet would be reasonable. Take the most of the $ out of politics and take much of the corruption out of it? [ IF "pork barrel" authority of Congress --their authority to vote on specific projects of cronies and/or" pork barrell"nature is also removed via elimination of omnibus bills & use of block grants instead.] We might even make Congress PART TIME.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
November 30th, 2011
6:20 pm
It is the Democrat party that is pushing hard to extend the payroll tax cut.
Still think that will “kill jobs” and “hurt middle income families”?
Look before I leap...
November 30th, 2011
6:23 pm
@To those whom… 5:58P
I beg to diifer, while $100K is certainly a handsome income, especially compared to someone who is below the poverty line, it is by no means RICH.
I earn well in excess of 100K. I am a single parent with 2 kids in college. I pay approximately 36% in income taxes plus another 14% in FICA (I am self-employed). I drive a car that is 10 years old and I shop at GAP and WalMart. I don’t own a plane or a yacht or a villa in Monte Carlo. I put away about 15% into retirement and another 10% into savings. I live within my means and have about $45K left over to pay my mortgage, roughly $15K per year for my kids college expenses, pay insurance (health and auto for me and my kids), some charitable donations and I have a few bucks left over each to month take a vacation a couple of times a year.
Am I comfortable and blessed? Yes I am, but I am by no means “rich”.
“To those whom much is given, much is expected.”
November 30th, 2011
6:23 pm
The Republicans should be ashamed that 21 million school children need free lunches.
46 million people live in proverty. Millionaires and billionaires could pay more!
Republican policies sqeeze the middle class and protect the rich.
Who do you stand for?
ld
November 30th, 2011
6:25 pm
Reforming Congress would mean ending their ability to award grant money to a company they or any of their cronies bought–cut the link between Congress and individual “pork barrell” projects w/block grants for catagories of projects–not specific projects–and any fed $ that go to states in block grants for catagories of spending must have some state matching % of funds. Local people can see the effect their matching funds do and do not have and are, therefore, likely in a better position to inflict political retribution for wasted funds?
ld
November 30th, 2011
6:30 pm
In my experience, women who begin to carry larger purses don’t have more room–they just fill it up w/more stuff. Same is true w/budgets. Most people spend most of what they make–instant gratification rather than planning for a distant future. That is why any ending of entitlements, SSA, Medicare, gov’t pensions, etc., MUST be made according to a schedule that is IRREVOCABLE and takes place in the reasonably distant FUTURE, by dates CERTAIN—so future generations will not get caught up in and current generations of people can lose the ‘great society’ mindset and plan and save for their own future AND ACT NOW in that interest–as in demand better wages now in lieu of ‘benefits’ they will not ever get .
Look before I leap...
November 30th, 2011
6:32 pm
@Kyle 6:10P
The OP was misleading in that it did not specify that “hundreds of millions of dollars” was over a period of 10 years.
After re-reading the OP though, I realized that the effort is not about congresssional pensions, but the fact that Congress is going after the beauracrats (”where the real money is”).
Good luck with that!!! The beauracrats can shut this country down faster than a dirty bomb in Lafayette Park.
ld
November 30th, 2011
6:33 pm
We should all be ashamed that many of our military’s enlisted personnel w/families need food stamps.
It’s all about income/asset inequality–that will end up being at the core of the 2102 elections. “It’s the economy, stupid.” updated and personalized.
“To those whom much is given, much is expected.”
November 30th, 2011
6:35 pm
@Look before I leap… November 30th, 2011 6:23 pm – I earn well in excess of 100K. I have a few bucks left over each to month take a vacation a couple of times a year. Am I comfortable and blessed? Yes I am, but I am by no means “rich”.
*************************************************************************
I meant rich compared to what others have.
There are people who DO NOT have a few bucks left over each month.
There are people who CANNOT take a vaction a couple of times a year or even take one vacation.
There are people that are NOT as comfortable or blessed as you are.
To them you are rich!
People should not be so ungrateful because they could be in someone else’s shoes.
MarkV
November 30th, 2011
6:39 pm
There are some ideas, such as universal health insurance and universal pension, which have two things in common. One is that they evoke strong adverse reactions; the other is that they are inevitable. They are called progress. People who fight them are people who never learn from history. Child labor laws, limited hours in a working week, universal suffrage … those are only a few items in a long list.
Streetracer
November 30th, 2011
6:40 pm
To those whom etc:
A Georgia Tech grad engineer could get a job with the State. After a year they do a good job, they can get a promotion (10% pay increase) and after another year another promotion (another 10% increase). If they have a stay-at-home spouse and two school age children, those children qualify for free or reduced price lunches in every district in the metro area
Look before I leap...
November 30th, 2011
6:43 pm
Well to me, someone who owns a Lear jet, has a 100 foot yacht, owns homes in Aspen and Cannes and South Beach and has millions left over is rich. A matter of perspective and I don’t begrudge those who are better off than I one little bit.
I am not sure if that “ungrateful” comment was directed to me or not. If so, you need to shut your pie-hole. You don’t know me or the road I have hoed to get where I am.
Bill
November 30th, 2011
7:00 pm
ID,
Insuring banks came out of the depression, and it was a good idea that worked, as long as the related regulation was in place. Beginning in the 1980s, through republican and democratic administrations, we have systematically deregulated the banking industry, and I believe that is the source of our economic calamity.
Bill
November 30th, 2011
7:03 pm
Regarding the “who is rich” question:
If you survey people, almost no one believes they are rich. It doesn’t matter if they make 100k, or a million a year. They do not feel rich. Similarly, if you ask people if they are middle class, the vast majority will say they are, whether they make 30k or 300k.
“To those whom much is given, much is expected.”
November 30th, 2011
7:10 pm
@Streetracer ovember 30th, 2011 6:40 pm – A Georgia Tech grad engineer could get a job with the State. After a year they do a good job, they can get a promotion (10% pay increase) and after another year another promotion (another 10% increase). If they have a stay-at-home spouse and two school age children, those children qualify for free or reduced price lunches in every district in the metro area
*****************************************************
I know a single mother of two and she was DENIED! You probably make a lot more than she does!
Lunch is the only meal some children get.
Look before I leap...
November 30th, 2011
7:26 pm
@Bill 7:03
Possible because “rich” is not a well-defined word.
It is a relative term and there is a human tendancy to guage one’s worth by what others around you have. I have tried to be fiscally disciplined and avoid “keeping up with the Joneses” with mixed success. Usually my failure was centered around my kids. Not sure I did them any favors by indulging them as I sometimes did.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
November 30th, 2011
7:40 pm
21 million school children need free lunches.
46 million people live in proverty
—————-
On whose watch?
Your klown prince Obozo is an America-hating failure.
Streetracer
November 30th, 2011
7:54 pm
To Those ETC:
The threshold for free and reduced pice school lunches in this area is 2 to 3 times the poverty level (which I belive is over 20K) depending on the School District. The single mother you cite either makes pretty good money or couldn’t fill out the paperwork correctly
Michael H. Smith
November 30th, 2011
7:56 pm
Still waiting on marxism to produce something other than a inevitable collapse – e.g. U.S.S.R. Strange how China gave-up on Maoist communism in a return embrace of their less fascist version of our own near absolutely controlled federally over regulated economy?
Oopsy, maybe carlosgv will now discover the true definition of a “fascist economic system”. Oh gee would that be like a GUB’MENT that regulated everything without actually outright owning it? Uh, kind of like it was in National Socialist Democratic Worker’s Party(a.k.a. “progressive”) Germany.
“To those whom much is given, much is expected.”
November 30th, 2011
8:07 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) November 30th, 2011 7:40 pm – 21 million school children need free lunches. 46 million people live in proverty
—————-
On whose watch? Your klown prince Obozo is an America-hating failure.
__________________________
On everybody’s watch! The fact is 21 million school children need free lunches. 46 million people live in proverty.
This is NO time to call names and lay blame. We are all guilty of not doing our part to help those who need help.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
November 30th, 2011
8:33 pm
What, no baseless racial smear jobs on Herman Cain from the drive by lib media today?
Did they run out of bimbos?
“To those whom much is given, much is expected.”
November 30th, 2011
8:41 pm
“@Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward) November 30th, 2011 7:40 pm – whose watch? Your klown prince Obozo is an America-hating failure.
__________________________
I will pray for YOU.
Your stupidity gets in the way of a rational discussion.
The bible says,
A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
The vexation of a fool is known at once, but the prudent ignores an insult.
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
Amen!
Ronnie Raygun
November 30th, 2011
8:58 pm
If these two CONgresmen really want to get rid of congressional perks they are more than free to refuse to take the pensions and 401ks themselves. Ain’t gonna happen though.
BTW: what about all of the other millions in perks congress gets? Franking (free postage), free healthcare, free private gym, etc, etc etc. What aren’t they suggesting getting rid of any of those wastes of taxpayer money?
GOP: Socialism and government handouts for the idle rich 1%ers. Social Darwinism for those of us that work 40+ hours a week to support our families.
Hillbilly D
November 30th, 2011
9:09 pm
Franking (free postage), free healthcare, free private gym, etc, etc etc.
Wonder what the Founding Father’s would think about what’s happened to “citizen legislators”?
“To those whom much is given, much is expected.”
November 30th, 2011
9:19 pm
@ Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin…
November 30th, 2011
8:33 pm What, no baseless racial smear jobs on Herman Cain from the drive by lib media today?
Did they run out of bimbos?
****************************************
The bible says,
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
A fool’s lips walk into a fight, and his mouth invites a beating.
“To those whom much is given, much is expected.”
November 30th, 2011
9:56 pm
Looks like we are going to have a 3rd party (The Justice Party) formed by Rocky Anderson former Salt Lake City Mayor a candidate for President.
We have the Republicans to BLAME because they just could not get along with the Democrats.
Maybe now we can have a civilized discussion on issues that affect this country!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
December 1st, 2011
9:36 am
ld: The best “regulation” to fix the ‘problems’ associated w/CEO pay is FOR ALL PUBLICALLY TRADED COMPANIES a law be enacted that requires that blah blah.
——–
Unless you’re a shareholder, CEO pay isn’t any of your business.
Keep your fascism off our markets and businesses.
That Black guy
December 1st, 2011
2:10 pm
Bart Abel
November 30th, 2011
1:50 pm
I made my point at 1:27, UGA1999…no cutting and pasting. Since you rely exclusively on talk radio and Fox News for your misinformation, I thought I’d dig up a little backup to help you understand the point I made.
Bart, how do you know where a ramdom poster on a blog gets their information? Do you personally know them? Are you peeking in the windows of people that you “think” are repubs?