Poll Position: Was Reed too fast or too slow vs. Occupy Atlanta?
They came, they camped, they got thrown in jail.
The Occupiers of Atlanta, or at least of Woodruff Park, logged nearly three weeks of unlawful “urban camping” before finally pushing their luck with Mayor Kasim Reed. About one week into a three-week extension of the permission he’d granted the Occupiers to stay in the park, Reed sent in the police. The mayor said some Occupiers had demonstrated they “were on a clear path to escalation.”
Unlike in Oakland, Calif., the arrests went peacefully. Now the Atlanta Occupiers say they’re moving on to a new location — and will eventually return to Woodruff, because it “is the people’s park.” (Sure it is. And the people’s duly elected representatives have made laws governing the people’s park.)
But the question remains: Were the Occupiers kicked out of Woodruff too soon, or too late?
How do you rate Kasim Reed's actions toward Occupy Atlanta?
- Kicked 'em out too late. (125 Votes)
- Kicked 'em out too soon. (60 Votes)
- Got it just right. (48 Votes)
Total Voters: 233
Loading ...On one hand, Reed had authorized their stay in Woodruff through Nov. 7 — and, given that he’d already extended his executive order once before, it’s fair to wonder if he meant “at least Nov. 7.” Absent some kind of riot or imminent public threat, why not stick to that plan?
On the other hand, a city ordinance clearly prohibits overnight camping in public parks. Why should Reed have allowed this group to violate the law — at a cost to the city of tens of thousands of dollars, even before last weekend’s flare-up — when other groups have followed the protocol for requesting similar park usage and been denied? (With Reed, maybe it truly is better to ask forgiveness than permission.)
That’s this week’s Poll Position. Answer in the nearby poll and in the comments thread below.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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144 comments Add your comment
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
9:34 am
Pat….AMEN!
MM
October 28th, 2011
9:35 am
Mayor Reed should have shown more restraint especially in light of Atlanta’s history in civil rights and Rev. King’s record of civil disobedience. The farce we saw played out with Atlanta’s. black clergy and Andy Young was reminiscent of our actual conservative history of poor leadership in the black community.
Equally is a disturbing trend toward autocratic and arrogant behavior by Mayor Reed. If the
Mayor is to have a socially useful future he should learn to hand the Occupy Atlanta and the CFO DeFoor and other similar situations with more subtlety and transparency.
carlosgvv
October 28th, 2011
9:36 am
Barry, Mark T
Of course I have wealth envy. Unfortunately, I must play the hand the fist of fate dealt me and wealth is not in those cards. And, as if that isn’t bad enough, I actually have a sense of right and wrong, a real hinderance to wealth in America if there evey was one.
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
9:44 am
Carlos…why is wealth “not in” your cards? You sound defeated?
Welcome to the Occupation
October 28th, 2011
9:44 am
Pat: “I know it is more than about getting a job. It is about people who do not want to take responsibly and want everything handed to them from “wealthier” people.”
No its not, Pat. I mean, these aren’t Wall St. bankers after all. They don’t want something for nothing and just a free handout (i.e. bailout). These are people who by and large are hard working people who see that the system has been bought out from under them. So they’re not protesting because things aren’t being handed to them, but because the social contract has been broken.
Don’t Tread: “I guess it’s better to punish people who violated some unwritten law in your head than to punish those who are actually guilty of something.”
Misdirection, Tread. The point was made that with Wall St. what we have is systemic corruption and misallocation of public resources. You then immediately try to reduce the discussion to a single individual. As if this is just about a handful of miscreants running rampant on Wall St. How we judge the ethical value of the actions of a George Soros is really immaterial here.
It’s not this or that corrupt individual that matter’s, it’s — to borrow a phrase — the system, stupid. It’s not greed as such, it’s a system that breeds and requires greed in its participants in order to thrive.
the original and still the best John Galt
October 28th, 2011
9:45 am
What finally scared Reed was the guy walking around in Woodruff Park with an AK-47. Exercising your First Amendment rights is one thing, but exercising your Second Amendment rights, ooohhh, that’s another thing.
emo
October 28th, 2011
9:45 am
Actually, none of these people want “other peoples’ wealth handed to them”; what they want is for the 1% not to be able to use their wealth to literally write laws allowing what little we have left to be funneled to them.
Possibly, this worried the 1% sufficiently for them to call in their chits and have the mayor send in their enforcers.
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
9:46 am
Welcome….if ignorance is bliss you must be smiling ear to ear!
Pat
October 28th, 2011
9:46 am
How has the “social contract” been broken?
Cal
October 28th, 2011
9:47 am
Kicked them out too late. A big waste of taxpayer dollars. But then OWS doesn’t care about those of us who actually pay taxes as long as the money is spent on them.
Losers!
Billy Bane
October 28th, 2011
9:52 am
“They came, they camped, they got thrown in jail.”
Yep, and that’s the Democrat base.
ragnar danneskjold
October 28th, 2011
9:57 am
Since I do not have to be within smell range of the Occupiers I do not care. I think they represent the highest and best values of our leftist friends, and believe it beneficial for their conduct to be on display for all. One has to be amused to see such National Socialists refusing to allow John Lewis to speak to the mob.
JF McNamara
October 28th, 2011
9:58 am
The Occupyers need a clearer message.
The original intent, I thought, was to get Glass Steagall reinstated. That’s a small, achievable goal, and its clearly needed. Given that the banks were bailed out, they clearly don’t operate in a free market fashion and need the regulations.
Before I inevitably get jumped on, I believe in the free market, but the free market assumes that you take on risk because the risk of losing your money drives your decision making. The banks essentially have no risk, because they know they will be bailed out. Therefore, they are not operating under free market principles. They essentially get return with very little risk, so they take on greater and greater risk until they create a disaster. It’s why they created Glass-Steagall in 1932 to begin with, and they were right.
Billy Bane
October 28th, 2011
9:59 am
“These are people who by and large are hard working people”
So they steal, defecate on cop cars, start fights, molest 14 year olds….
Yep, hard working folks they is.
The_Truth
October 28th, 2011
9:59 am
These encampments, particularly the one in NY, have become a hazard to public safety. Lower Manhattan has become the meeting ground for drug dealers, petty thieves who are now preying on the campers, anarchists who are trying to incite violence, and the professional homeless (as one protester put it). In fact, the NYC OWS folks are going to stop feeding the homeless at their kitchens and are directing them to Christian outreach centers for their free food. How’s that for sharing the wealth. These misguided kids don’t even know that it was Clinton who signed NAFTA and the Graham Leach Bliley Act that opened the doors to domestic job loss and massive investment and commercial banking abuse. Someone needs to give these so called OCCUPIERS the book ANIMAL FARM and maybe they would learn something. It is unfortunate that these lost souls are being used by the left to push their socialist agenda.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 28th, 2011
9:59 am
emo says it well.
“Possibly, this worried the 1% sufficiently for them to call in their chits and have the mayor send in their enforcers.”
It’s just the tip of the iceberg. The so-called intellectual “leaders” of the establishment and the reigning ideology — people like Bill Kristol and their ideological hit men like Dick Morris and Doug Schoen — are now frantically trying to peddle a narrative that the movement features a troubling antisemitism in a desperate attempt to get the public to turn on it.
It won’t work.
And it especially won’t work with Gestapo tactics in the streets of Oakland.
Pat: “How has the “social contract” been broken?”
In the 20th C there was a broadly understood pact or agreement that gave this country a relative stability with regard to its economic life (i.e. leaving aside some social justice and war policy conflicts in the 1960s), which basically consisted in the principle that with a basic education and willingness to work, you could have access to a reasonable middle class life: ability to own a home, to retire without fear of destitution, health care through an employer, a modest level of comfort, ability to educate your children or obtain treatment for health problems without being bankrupted, to name a few.
Starting in the 1970s there was radical shift away from the pillars of that system towards privatization and deregulation and financialization (both at the CEO corporate level and in terms of consumerization and disintermediation in investment decisions). The 2007-8 crisis is the final reckoning of that ideology that took hold in the 70s and 80s. The radicalization of the Republican party in the 1990s and especially in 2010, and the weakness and fecklessness of the Democratic party mean that the jig is now definitely up in the eyes of large parts of the public.
The result:
Occupation
ohmy
October 28th, 2011
10:04 am
the messages on their signs were not mispelled. i did like that
Billy Bane
October 28th, 2011
10:06 am
“the messages on their signs were not mispelled. i did like that”
That’s because they were printed out by Moveon.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
October 28th, 2011
10:07 am
If the middle class are falling behind, it’s because they thought screwing bumpers onto minivans at the GM plant should allow them to afford that McMansion, bass boat and Jeep Cherokee in perpetuity. Dumb.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 28th, 2011
10:11 am
Cal: “Losers!”
Remember Gandhi’s words, Cal: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win”
Sounds like you’re already on your way from stage 2 to 3. Congratulations, you’re ahead of Mark T.
Kyle Wingfield
October 28th, 2011
10:13 am
She of many names who’s been threatening to sue people: You’ve really gone over the edge the last day or two. I regret that I wasn’t able to pay as much attention as usual to the blog those days, but I am now. And you’re going into moderation.
That said, there’s been a noticeable uptick in incivility since Billy Bane showed up. Not coincidentally, I think, because he sounds an awful lot like the old David Axelfraud/LA who was banned here. So Billy’s going into moderation, too.
Same rules as usual: If you taunt either of them, you’ll be off the blog as well. And while circumstances prevented me from cracking down on name-calling the way I said a couple of weeks ago I was going to do, that crackdown is going to take place now.
Karl Marx
October 28th, 2011
10:16 am
Jimmy62
I think I covered that Government was to blame in much of the Bailout problem. You want to put all of the blame on people who “ Signed for a Mortgage” they could not afford however in that case the Government who wanted banks to make those loans and the banks who also wanted to make those loans also are at fault. Who do you think lobbied government for the breaks to make those risky loans? When the market collapsed it caught many people off guard that did have the income to pay their mortgage and don’t say they should have planned for the loosing most of their income. The only way to guard against that is to pay cash for everything and borrow nothing. Can you do that? You want to center on Wall Street but there is much more wrong with our current situation than just the corporate welfare queens on Wall Street as I pointed out. Look at the two faced crooks in the legislature (Republicrats and Demicans) and you will find the root cause.
Pat
October 28th, 2011
10:17 am
@Welcome, people still have access to all that stuff. They seem to missing the one point “willingness to work.” That means starting out and working your way up. Not expecting a perfect job when you are ready to work.
A basic education is not the same as it use to be. College degrees are not as valuable as they once were in the 80’s and that is due to the fact that the market has been flooded with people getting these now.
Pat
October 28th, 2011
10:19 am
Karl – I completely agree.
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
10:19 am
Welcome….yeah you are right. Defecating on police cars, American flags, doing drugs and raping 14 year old girls. Yep that is the crowd that I want to be associated with . Somehow I think Ghandi would not be on your side bro.
yuzeyurbrane
October 28th, 2011
10:21 am
I appreciate your comments about “Billy Bane” but I would rather the public got to see the true face of these extremists rather than have her censored.
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
10:23 am
yuzeyurbrane….I saw them I was in NYC two weeks ago. It is a shame that those clowns have their anger so misdirected.
Pat
October 28th, 2011
10:25 am
UGA 1999 – isn’t it great that the media is not showing that side of the Occupiers?
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
10:26 am
PAT…..yep! The media is so corrupt.
Kyle Wingfield
October 28th, 2011
10:28 am
yuze: I think the public has seen plenty of Billy’s face lately. At some point, it disrupts the blog, and that’s where I have to step in.
Welcome to the Occupation
October 28th, 2011
10:28 am
Pat: “@Welcome, people still have access to all that stuff. ”
With unemployment hovering at near 10%?
With the employer-sponsored health insurance system (which was always a kind of Frankenstein concoction from the beginning) collapsing as we speak?
With a decimated manufacturing base and an astonishing insistence by our political system on doubling down on NAFTA-style free-trade policies (and I mean BOTH parties, including this pseudo-left president)?
Not so much.
RAMZAD
October 28th, 2011
10:30 am
“Scum” “human debris” “squatters” “losers” “stupid people” “bean bag bullets” “fire hoses”:
Can we distinguish these voices from those of Gaddafi, Mubarak, and Assad? These are the same names these despots had for the honest people who had turned out to protest and resist dictatorship by the few and the powerful.
It seems like Al Quida has little going on with hate for Americans if we compare it with the
hate Americans have for each other. America has gone into dictatorship mode.
Kremlin propaganda machine needs to come to America to get lessons and demonstration.
“We have seen the enemy and it is us.”
emo
October 28th, 2011
10:31 am
Thanks, Kyle, you have elevated the tone instantly, but there is more work to be done.
Having said that, you all can wallow in your ignorance (cough, Rush, cough) and misinformation (cough, Fake News, cough), but please know that while you and your friends all agree with each other, the rest of the country sees what’s going on and will vote overwhelmingly Democratic (not “Democrat”, that’s just illiterate) in the next election.
I believe there were snide comments on Obama’s job approval on another post; now we know what Congress’ job approval is, and it’s 9%. I know your masters have their districts thoroughly gerrymandered and we are stuck with them, but in the next Congress, they will be backbenchers once again.
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
10:32 am
Kyle….did you ban Billy?
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
10:34 am
Emo….yep Obama is around 39% haha…great job!
Welcome to the Occupation
October 28th, 2011
10:34 am
Pat:
And do I even need to add to my list …
Collapsing state budgets and the social programs that depend on them
Skyrocketing tuition costs – partly as a result of the above ?
Pat
October 28th, 2011
10:37 am
Yes unemployment is at 10%, but maybe people should look at their job skills and redefine them instead of sitting there and waiting for a job to open up with the skills that person needs. There are still jobs out there, just look on the employment links on websites. Why do they want the employers to adapt to the person’s ability instead of adapting to what the employer needs to make their business successful?
emo
October 28th, 2011
10:38 am
‘Obama is around 39% haha…great job!’
Another closely reasoned argument. Please tell me how 9% beats 39%.
Pat
October 28th, 2011
10:40 am
You can add that to your list and I agree. State budgets are in a terrible situation right now. If you look at Ga, there revenue has actually increased over the last year, but they still are cutting budgets. That is what is causing the tuition hikes, etc. I do not think that the companies are causing that.
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
10:40 am
Emo….is the 9% up for re-election next year? haha
Pat
October 28th, 2011
10:41 am
Emo – approval ratings of 9% and 39% are not going to get you re-elected
emo
October 28th, 2011
10:45 am
Why yes, all of the House and 1/3 of the Senate are up for reelection next year, genius.
Pat, so who does get re-elected next year, none of them?
zeke
October 28th, 2011
10:46 am
WE MUST NOT ALLOW ANARCHISTS, ANTI CAPITALISTS, COMMUNISTS TO ORGANIZE THESE ANTI USA STUNTS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE MENTALLY DEFICIENT DUE TO THE LIBERAL SOCIALIST INDOCTRINATION THEY HAVE BEEN FORCED TO ENDURE IN THE GOVERNMENT SCHOOL AND COLLEGE SYSTEMS! THE FIRST AMENDMENT GIVES FREE SPEECH RIGHTS NOT ANARCHIST SCUM RIGHTS OR FREEDOM OF PROTESTS!!!
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
10:46 am
emo…you do realize that the repubs are a favorite to take over the Senate in the next election as well? They will have the House, Senate and presidency…..NICE!
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
10:47 am
Can someone tell me why Billy Bane got banned?
Welcome to the Occupation
October 28th, 2011
10:48 am
UGA 1999: “Can someone tell me why Billy Bane got banned?”
Read Kyle’s statement above. It’s pretty clearly laid out.
Pat
October 28th, 2011
10:49 am
emo – that is up to the voters. If the people do not approve of the people that are up for re-election, they vote in someone who is running against them.
Toussaint
October 28th, 2011
10:50 am
Way to go, Kyle. Did you really expect the poll to go any other way? This rabid republican, tea party love fest thinks that the OWS is full of marxists and scum.
I do wonder why you tolerate Lil’ Barry and his vitriol? “Scum”, “dumb and lazy”…wow, how American of him. He is so patriotic. And love thy neighbor was obviously lost on him!
UGA 1999
October 28th, 2011
10:50 am
Oh ok, I got it.
commoncents
October 28th, 2011
10:51 am
Occupation: “Collapsing state budgets and the social programs that depend on them”
I think you just inadvertantly answered the “How did we get to this point?” question
On the bright side, for all you optimists out there, 10% unemployment means 90% employment! Things could be worse. They could also be better, and will be, once the government stops propping up companies and interest groups with bailouts that do nothing other than delay the inevitable collapse.