Is laying the ‘intellectual foundation’ of OWS something one ought to brag about?
I got a chuckle when I saw this Associated Press story:
WASHINGTON — Massachusetts Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren is taking some credit for the Occupy Wall Street protests.
The Democrat and longtime consumer advocate says her work over the years against Wall Street abuses created much of the intellectual foundation for the demonstrators.
Because I immediately remembered reading this, from New York Magazine’s Daily Intel:
Over the past month, the crusaders at Zuccotti Park have braved the elements, tussled with police, and stood their ground against Mayor [Michael] Bloomberg. But how much do the protesters actually know about the economic system that they’re fighting to change? To find out, we asked 50 occupiers a series of questions about Wall Street, taxes, and government. The results were mixed.
To call the results “mixed” is to put it charitably. Here are some of the results:
- Q: What is the Dodd-Frank Act? Most common answer: “Don’t know,” with 84 percent of the vote.
- Q: What is the “S.E.C”? Most common answer: “Don’t know,” with 68 percent of the vote (though I smiled to see 4 percent, in New York, answer “The Southeastern Conference?”).
- Q: What is the top marginal income tax rate for the richest 1 percent? An astonishing 30 percent actually thought it was “Zero to 10 percent,” and another 32 percent said “10 to 25 percent.” Add the 26 percent who admitted not knowing, and there’s a whole lot of ignorance among the Occupiers about the 1 percenters they so detest.
- Q: What does the government spend more on? Health care and pensions, education, or the military? The answer by 94 percent of those polled: the military. Which, in fact, takes up less than half the spending that health care and pensions do.
The Occupiers were more knowledgeable about whether we’re experiencing inflation or deflation, and about whether President Obama controls the Federal Reserve (although just 38 percent knew that Ben Bernanke is the Fed’s chairman). But my favorite answer, given the aforementioned boasting by a certain Democratic candidate for the Senate from Massachusetts?
Q: Who is Elizabeth Warren?
Don’t Know: 64 percent
“Warren Buffett’s wife?”: 10 percent
“First female president/hero”: 2 percent
Warren will, I’m sure, be flattered to know that the rest of her alleged intellectual offspring actually recognized her name.
Suggested new name for Warren’s Army: “We are the 24 percent!”
– By Kyle Wingfield
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247 comments Add your comment
Uncle Jed
October 26th, 2011
9:49 am
MarkV
October 26th, 2011
9:40 am
Uncle Jed @9:37 am
And what is your point? That Kyle did NOT try to make any point?
+++++++++++++++++
It is my fervent belief that most understood that Kyle found humor in the AP piece and reiterated a point that seemed evident to most people anytime a OWSer was interviewed. Surely we can agree that many, way too many, of the OWSers came across as ill-informed and pawnlike.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
October 26th, 2011
9:49 am
carlosgvv, I’ve heard a lot more from the protesters than the eeeeevil corporations, and I’m not exactly impressed by their incoherent ramblings and pleas for other people’s property.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 26th, 2011
9:52 am
“what is it that aig orgoldman sachs and other players did that they couldn’t do before glass-stegal was repealed.”
They could treat mortgages in the same way as securities and use them as investments. Unfortunately, the mortgages they were using were sub-prime and had no actual value. Big, big problem. Glass-Stegall prevented that from happening.
Chuck Doberman
October 26th, 2011
9:53 am
“… demanding ever-larger handouts is hardly an “intellectual foundation”.”
Correct, yet big-business does this daily, and pays our conservative “representatives” to forward and foment this practice… and they’ve become quite adept at selling this practice to their base as being “business-friendly” and “creating an atmosphere for job creation”. Newsflash! Corporations are enjoying profits at levels never seen before RIGHT NOW (I’d say that’s a pretty friendly atmosphere already) while killing jobs and shipping our manufacturing capabilities and those jobs (what little is left here) abroad. Deny this all you want, insult the unemployed and under-employed, attack detractors as unpatriotic, glaze it all over with a coating of emotional wedge issues and vitriole… but it won’t change the reality that conservative practices are destroying the middle-class one little bit. Those of us who can look past the faux outrage, personal attacks and snake-oil sales realize this and I believe as time goes on more and more people will wake up and take notice. I just hope that when that does happen it won’t be already too late
commoncents
October 26th, 2011
9:56 am
carlosgvv “Before BIG LABOR came along, we had 12 hour workdays, 6 day work weeks, no paid overtime, no paid vacations, no paid holidays, no insurance, no Workman’s Comp. and child labor. The ultimate goal of Big Business, who toally owns the Republican Party, is to get America as close as possible to those days gone by.”
And those 12/6 work-weeks are gone, and many labor laws have passed that will ensure a fair work practices. For that, we should be thanking unions. Now, unions want to say that only workers who pay union dues are entitled to jobs, and that corporations based in union states are only allowed to operate in union states. Unions are now taking business hostage, ensuring that the best people for the job can’t be hired and the wrong people can’t be fired.
Don't Tread
October 26th, 2011
9:57 am
These “test results” aren’t surprising. These are probably the same people who spent their high school and college years stoned playing Xbox and benefitting from “social promotion” while others were actually learning the material. They have no knowledge of how the system works except what the alphabet media told them, and have probably forgotten half of that.
And now they say life ain’t fair. Well, karma’s a b!#*h, ain’t it?
Chuck Doberman
October 26th, 2011
9:57 am
“Shame on the Atlanta OWSers for bringing imported assault weapons to their protests. If they weren’t so greedy they’d spend a little more for American made”
Now this I can agree with. Chinese and Eastern European equipment is total crap
Uncle Jed
October 26th, 2011
9:57 am
@carlosgvv
October 26th, 2011
9:41 am
++++++++++++++
Before BIG LABOR came along, we had 12 hour workdays, 6 day work weeks,…
Ahh, the glory days when we had jobs came to mind.
++++++++++++++
The ultimate goal of Big Business, who toally[sic] owns the Republican Party
And then GE came to mind.
++++++++++++++++
…instigate a smear campaign against…
Obama and the liberal media machine sets the standards.
++++++++++++++++
…counting on people like you to believe what they say and ignore what they do…
And then children, the pot said to the kettle…
stands for decibels
October 26th, 2011
9:57 am
Surely we can agree that many, way too many, of the OWSers came across as ill-informed and pawnlike.
I doubt you, or many of the other conservatives posting here, have heard OWSers whose spoken opinions weren’t cherry picked by right wing media outlets.
The spokesfolk I’ve heard have been generally articulate, well informed and, I might add, polite. For what it’s worth.
commoncents
October 26th, 2011
9:59 am
Doberman “Corporations are enjoying profits at levels never seen before RIGHT NOW (I’d say that’s a pretty friendly atmosphere already) while killing jobs and shipping our manufacturing capabilities and those jobs (what little is left here) abroad”
So you answer to prevent the shipping of jobs overseas is to tax them more and create a less friendly work environment in the US?
Uncle Jed
October 26th, 2011
10:07 am
I doubt you, or many of the other conservatives posting here, have heard OWSers whose spoken opinions weren’t cherry picked by right wing media outlets.
++++++++++++++++++
Speaking for myself, I made it a point, as I usually do, to formulate opinions after hearing reports and anecdotal information from a broad base of sources. While I can agree that some of the professional organizer types were much more informed and generally able to communicate their positions, it was apparent to me that the vast majority of participant protestors were very much the opposite. In fact, it was laughable to witness the fumbling and stumbling on the part of many.
commoncents
October 26th, 2011
10:08 am
Seems I lost my comment somewhere…
SFD: “I doubt you, or many of the other conservatives posting here, have heard OWSers whose spoken opinions weren’t cherry picked by right wing media outlets.
The spokesfolk I’ve heard have been generally articulate, well informed and, I might add, polite. For what it’s worth”
Sounds very similar to what happened with those racist Tea Party members…
Uncle Jed
October 26th, 2011
10:11 am
commoncents
October 26th, 2011
10:08 am
++++++++++++++
Touche’
(I am out and in pursuit of corporate spoils)
Kyle Wingfield
October 26th, 2011
10:13 am
Uncle Jed @ 9:37: Precisely. Geesh, indeed.
Kyle Wingfield
October 26th, 2011
10:14 am
stands: New York Magazine is now a “right-wing media outlet”?
Chuck Doberman
October 26th, 2011
10:15 am
“So you answer to prevent the shipping of jobs overseas is to tax them more and create a less friendly work environment in the US?”
If the sole purpose is to hoard profits, pay a few executives exhorbitant salaries and layoff thousands (killing jobs, not creating them) then we are left with few alternatives. We could leave things as they are and watch corporate coffers grow (with no benefit to the nation… in fact if we continue along this course the middle-class will surely disappear), the wage gap expand even more and the number of Americans in poverty increase exponentially. We could adopt the republican platform, return to the practices which put us here and accelerate my previous statements; or we could come up with a method to reward businesses which creates jobs and keeps them here while somehow make those businesses that only wish to maximize and hoard profits at the expense of Americans compensate we Americans for said practices.
Is your answer to our present dilemma to make things easier for corporations and special-interest to bleed the American middle-class faster? Do you honestly believe our way of life will continue after you’ve accomplished the destruction of the middle-class?
Welcome to the occupation
October 26th, 2011
10:15 am
You got a “chuckle”, Kyle?
Let’s see where this figures in Gandhi’s progression: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
Kyle Wingfield
October 26th, 2011
10:16 am
From now on, shall I put *******CAUTION: ALLEGED HUMOR******** across the top of any post that is intended as such?
Kyle Wingfield
October 26th, 2011
10:18 am
And for those — like Welcome @ 10:15 — who detected some bit of humor but didn’t know quite where to place it: I was poking fun at Elizabeth Warren as much as anyone. If you want to compare her and her “consumer protection” efforts to Gandhi, be my guest. I’ll let you have that comparison all to yourselves.
Jimmy62
October 26th, 2011
10:20 am
Tiberious: Investment banks were never prevented from buying mortgages by Glass-Stegall. They bought mortgages before the repeal, they bought them after. The repeal of Glass-Stegall had a negligible impact on any of this.
MarkV
October 26th, 2011
10:28 am
Uncle Jed @ 9:49 am “Surely we can agree that many, way too many, of the OWSers came across as ill-informed and pawnlike.
Surely we can agree that many, way too many people in this country are ill-informed and pawnlike.
“It is my fervent belief that most understood that Kyle found humor in the AP piece and reiterated a point that seemed evident to most people anytime a OWSer was interviewed.”
(also, Kyle @10:13 am)
No objection to anybody’s beliefs. However, this is a conservative blog, inviting comments. Kyle mocked the survey results of people he clearly does not agree with, thus making a political point. Therefore, it is appropriate to point out the fallacy of that point, whether it is humorous or not..
carlosgvv
October 26th, 2011
10:48 am
Uncle Jed
I told you something you did not want to hear and you have reacted in a knee-jerk conservative way, just as I knew you would. Making fun of me does not invalidate anything I said and will NOT make it go away.
carlosgvv
October 26th, 2011
10:51 am
Barry – 9:49
You have heard from the protesters only what Business and The Republicans have wanted you to hear. You are too brainwashed to realize you hear only what they tell you to.
cranky old man
October 26th, 2011
10:53 am
Hi, Joe The Plumber too,
I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me there are several problems with executive pay and bonuses. They are tied to short term (often quarterly) performance. They also tend to be paid in the form of stock options instead of salary/cash. As a CEO, I can make decisions that will cause a short term rise in profitability at the expense of long term company health (eating the seed corn, as it were). I can then cash in my stock options (which are only taxed at 15%), and retire with my golden parachute before the carefully balanced house of cards comes crashing down. Blame the board of directors for agreeing to the pay package, you say? The problem there is that the CEO of company A often sits on the board of company B, and vice-versa. It’s a huge good-ole-boy orgy of mutual back scratching.
Chuck Doberman
October 26th, 2011
10:55 am
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — “It’s official. The first decade of the 21st century will go down in the history books as a step back for the American middle class.
Last week, the government made gloomy headlines when it released the latest census report showing the poverty rate rose to a 17-year high. A whopping 46.2 million people (or 15.1% of the U.S. population) live in poverty and 49.9 million live without health insurance.
But the data also gave the first glimpse of what happened to middle-class incomes in the first decade of the millennium. While the earnings of middle-income Americans have barely budged since the mid 1970s, the new data showed that from 2000 to 2010, they actually regressed.
For American households in the middle of the pay scale, income fell to $49,445 last year, when adjusted for inflation, a level not seen since 1996.
And over the 10-year period, their income is DOWN 7%.”
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2011/09/21/news/economy/middle_class_income/chart-income.top.jpg
UGA 1999
October 26th, 2011
11:04 am
If they want to take the blame for the crimes, ignorance and communist views….then yes it is a good idea.
DannyX
October 26th, 2011
11:08 am
“‘intellectual foundation’”
Intellectual foundation???? Like this blog and its daily followers???
LMAO! Now that’s funny!
Dusty
October 26th, 2011
11:13 am
Well, one thing is very obvious here. Not only are liberals lacking a sense of humor, they also have a lockset mind based on a brain washing agenda. You can spot them a mile off. EVIL Republicans! EVIL corporations raping the country! Child labor! EVIL CEOs! I protested!! Rich people should pay MORE! (Obese)Children are starving!
It goes on and on. Liberals need to write some new lines not written by communists, creeps and counterfeit intellectuals. Tiresome!
ragnar danneskjold
October 26th, 2011
11:14 am
I respectfully believe the Occupy Wall Streetpeople represent the highest and best intellectual thought found on America’s left. To borrow a line from my favorite co-blogger, @@, “snerk!”
UGA 1999
October 26th, 2011
11:15 am
Danny X “Like this bog and its daily followers???” You mean like YOU?
Intown
October 26th, 2011
11:16 am
What Elizabeth Warren should have said is: I can provide the intellectual justification for the meaningful protest that the Occupy Wall Street SHOULD be having. (Not the one they’re actually waging.)
Make fun of her all you want Kyle. But she’s one of the few willing to fight for working stiffs like you and me.
Welcome to the occupation
October 26th, 2011
11:20 am
Sort of like the “intellectual foundation” of the whole so-called conservative movement:
what, Milton Friedman?
Give me a break. Probably the biggest crank and pseudo-intellectual charlatan in the past 150 years.
UGA 1999
October 26th, 2011
11:23 am
Intown…I do a pretty good job fighting for myself. No help from Ms. Warren needed.
John
October 26th, 2011
11:31 am
Kyle, no less intelligent than the Tea Party…don’t you think? Remember the Tea Party sign…”keep your government hands off my medicare”. And now we have every Republican politician trying to be more Tea Partier than their opponent.
Jack
October 26th, 2011
11:31 am
“…intellectual foundation…” ?? I know some grade school kids that have a better intellectual foundation than those hippie losers at OWS. The Occupy Everything slugs need to include their participation in this circus in their resumes.
Chuck Doberman
October 26th, 2011
11:32 am
That’s funny…. I haven’t seen any of these words or phrases used by anyone except those on the right attempting to discredit anyone with whom they disagree… which I see a lot of. This can’t be the simple deflection and denial it so appears to be… that would be childish and hurtful which is IMPOSSIBLE because it is widely known that those of us “on the right” are far holier and are just better people than those of us on the left… There must be hidden text somewhere on this page…
Hey Dusty, I’m in the middle here as I’m no Obama fan and often laugh at the disorganized and unfocused democratic party, On the other hand I’m well aware of the GOP’s mission to destroy the middle class, how far they’ve already pushed that agenda and how close they are to accomplishing that goal. Is there a way for those of us who subscribe to neither party to view these hidden pages you see. If not, is there an abridged, censored or simplified version for we unwashed masses?
UGA 1999
October 26th, 2011
11:34 am
Chuck….destroy the middle class? Can you please site an example?
Chuck Doberman
October 26th, 2011
11:35 am
“EVIL Republicans! EVIL corporations raping the country! Child labor! EVIL CEOs! I protested!! Rich people should pay MORE!”
These are what my previous post spoke of. I forgot to paste them… I must become holier which will make me smarter and better than most!
getalife
October 26th, 2011
11:36 am
Are we even getting closer to you cons saying the 1 % does not need any help?
Chuck Doberman
October 26th, 2011
11:36 am
“Chuck….destroy the middle class? Can you please site an example?”
see my 10:55 post
stands for decibels
October 26th, 2011
11:39 am
stands: New York Magazine is now a “right-wing media outlet”?
did I say that? no. I meant that that the impressions being made on the conservative posters regarding the intelligence of the OWSers are those carefully edited and presented by right wing media outlets; and I think that’s a defensible statement.
Welcome to the occupation
October 26th, 2011
11:40 am
UGA 1999: “Chuck….destroy the middle class? Can you please site an example?”
How about a collapsing employer-sponsored health insurance system?
http://www.startribune.com/business/132307903.html
DannyX
October 26th, 2011
11:41 am
from a new CBS/NY Times poll,
“Only 26% said that money and wealth are distributed fairly in America, while 66 percent say they aren’t.”
Kyle are you part of the 26% or part of the 66%?
Count me i
stands for decibels
October 26th, 2011
11:43 am
And for the record, I’m fine with Kyle and others choosing to laugh at what they see as silly, dissolute youth; we read what we like into the other sides’ chosen outrage, and I can certainly see how the superficial stuff–the drum circles, some of the hairstyles, the tats, etc.–seem unserious.
But the notion that Wall Street needs “occupying” by those heretofore without access to the levers of power? I think that’s got legs, myself.
getalife
October 26th, 2011
11:43 am
Again, are we even closer for you cons to admit the 1 % does not need any help?
Can you answer this simple question cons?
Shawanda
October 26th, 2011
11:46 am
“…(though I smiled to see 4 percent, in New York, answer “The Southeastern Conference?”).”
Hey that woulda been MY answer, too. Goooo DAWGS, woof woof woof.
UGA 1999
October 26th, 2011
11:46 am
Chuck….Thank you for actually posting a legitimate post. (Sincerely).
I agree that your data does show a downward spiral in the incomes of the middle class. However that is not only due to presidential policies but more a focus on the economic times. The thing that I have a hard time with is the fact that Obama seems to only be making things much worse.
UGA 1999
October 26th, 2011
11:47 am
Getalife…depends on your definition of help.
getalife
October 26th, 2011
11:48 am
I think the 9% approval for corrupt congress answers my question cons .
getalife
October 26th, 2011
11:51 am
Your tea party gave us our first downgrade to further our recession but that is okay.
You cons call that intelligent but real Americans are fighting to get our country back from a 1 % controlled government.
I stand with the 99 % of real American patriots.