An about-face by an opponent of voter ID laws
There is a constant refrain from the opponents of voter ID laws: that it is an attempt by white Republicans to suppress the votes of black Democrats. I’ve never understood why these opponents are allowed to get away with making what strikes me as a bigoted statement on its face: that African Americans are somehow less capable or motivated when it comes to obtaining a state-issued photo ID. But they do get away with it.
That’s why I thought it noteworthy that someone who admits to making such an argument in the past has turned the argument on its head and explained why election fraud is the real suppression measure — and testified that such fraud does happen.
Here’s Artur Davis, a former Democratic congressman from Alabama, writing in the Montgomery Advertiser:
The truth is that the most aggressive contemporary voter suppression in the African American community, at least in Alabama, is the wholesale manufacture of ballots, at the polls and absentee, in parts of the Black Belt.
Voting the names of the dead, and the nonexistent, and the too-mentally-impaired to function, cancels out the votes of citizens who are exercising their rights — that’s suppression by any light. If you doubt it exists, I don’t; I’ve heard the peddlers of these ballots brag about it, I’ve been asked to provide the funds for it, and I am confident it has changed at least a few close local election results.
The fact is that lawsuits opposing voter ID lawsuits have, in Georgia’s case and every other case with which I’m familiar, never managed to identify even a single person who’s been unable to cast a ballot because of ID laws. Yet, the issue doesn’t seem to go away. Even though Georgia’s law has been upheld by the state Supreme Court and the federal courts as constitutional, the law is still dragged out periodically by partisans of grievance politics as evidence of bad faith by Georgia’s ruling Republicans.
Opponents also like to claim that voter fraud is either non-existent — which is plainly false, given that there have been successful prosecutions for the offense — or so rare a problem that it’s not worth the potential suppression of a future voter. But, as Davis points out, it’s a serious problem if it changes the will of rightful voters in even one election.
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
127 comments Add your comment
Ayn Rant
October 24th, 2011
6:12 am
Dixiecrats turn Republicans according to the political tide, so a former “democrat” politician in Alabama turning tail to utter a lot of nonsense is not newsworthy.
The point about the voter ID law is that it is unnecessary and unconstitutional. it is intended to discourage the poor and elderly from voting by placing an irrelevant burden on the process. The law can be justified only if there is indication of widespread voter fraud due to failure of voters to produce picture IDs. There is no such evidence.
Can’t Alabama and Georgia politicians find something better to do than posture over voter IDs, Sunday alcohol sales, and immigrant farm workers? Shouldn’t they be concerned about the high unemployment, overloaded and crumbling infrastructure, bad schools, and grim prospects for improvement in their states?
We get who we elect
October 24th, 2011
6:23 am
Numerous documented cases of voter fraud. People who register (or someone else registers them) with fake addresses, deceased people voting, voter registration notices returned as undeliverable, no one at address, etc. You show an id to buy alcohol, board a plane, verify a credit purchase, rent a car, but not to vote? Kind of ridiculous this is even a topic for discussion.
Skram30082
October 24th, 2011
6:24 am
A friend of my family attended college in Alabama, and while he was there, established residence and registered to vote. He voted in the 2004 Presidential election. He also used his parents’ address in Smyrna, requested an absentee ballot, and voted again. Today, he lives in Tennessee and has been volunteering with Hermain Cain’s campaign.
Voter fraud occurs in all sides of the political spectrum, and the voter ID law does not prevent this type of fraud. A better solution would be to focus on actual fraud and devising a solution to prevent it. The voter ID law does not address this type of fraud.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 24th, 2011
6:26 am
“The law can be justified only if there is indication of widespread voter fraud due to failure of voters to produce picture IDs.”
——————————-
To paraphrase one of the libtarded justifications for Obozocare…You’re already required to have a picture ID to drive, what’s wrong with requiring a picture ID to vote?
Tom E. Gunn
October 24th, 2011
6:27 am
Well, BEFORE the law, I saw a very close local election decided by less than 2o votes. The ‘winner” had got absentee ballots for every nursing home resident in two local homes. Wonder how they voted? Why does anyone have a problem showing an ID?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 24th, 2011
6:29 am
There have been numerous convictions nationwide of Democrats for fraudulent voter registration (aka “community organizing”). Are we to understand that Democrats stop at illegally registering people, and don’t then try to cast ballots in the name of those fraudulent voters?
Voter ID laws are absolutely necessary to stop Democrat vote fraud.
Sbinf
October 24th, 2011
6:38 am
Tom, how does requiring folks at polls to show an id cut down on absentee voter fraud??
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 24th, 2011
6:40 am
But Kyle, if you enforce the law, how will dummycrats ever get elected?
Aquagirl
October 24th, 2011
6:45 am
I’ve always thought the screeching over voter ID laws was overblown. As long as non-drivers can get state-issued ID’s without undue fuss or cost, people too confused/stupid/lazy to obtain them shouldn’t be voting anyhow.
Democratic Logic
October 24th, 2011
6:49 am
The stimulus is working! Jobs are returning!
Jessie "The Slogan Master" Jackson
October 24th, 2011
6:51 am
Republicans are always trying to hold down the Black man.
Obama turns water into wine and is making America shine.
Joel Edge
October 24th, 2011
7:12 am
My first thought, if he had any career hopes in the Dem party, they’re done now.
Southern Comfort
October 24th, 2011
7:13 am
Interesting..
The one problem I have with voter ID laws is why would you require me to have a photo ID for election day voting, but there’s no similar requirement if I request an absentee ballot. Seems like if you think it’s a good idea to have an ID for voting, you’d require it for ALL voting. That’s what makes it appear that there’s a certain segment being targeted by the ID laws in my opinion.
Waheema
October 24th, 2011
7:14 am
Ms. Rant,
Authur Davis is a black man. Likely not a former dixiecrat. Slander, or guilt by association as a form of arugment are both cheap rhetorical tricks. They can be effective if the writer is clever; you are not.
Coupling dismissive silliness with standard liberal talking points while predictable is not effective.
todd
October 24th, 2011
7:27 am
I try not to use harsh terms when commenting on the internet but in your case I just can’t help it. Wingfield, you’re an idiot. According to your logic, we shouldn’t ask anybody to get a drivers license because this would also unfairly discriminate against minorities. Let’s not hold anyone to even a minimum standard for anything. And yeah, if someone isn’t motivated enough to get some sort of ID then they shouldn’t be voting.
@@
October 24th, 2011
7:35 am
a bigoted statement on its face: that African Americans are somehow less capable or motivated when it comes to obtaining a state-issued photo ID.
Don’t know about the motivated part, but LESS CAPABLE? That’s all I’ve ever heard from Democrats…African Americans NEED the government’s help because they can’t make it on their own. It’s almost as though they see African Americans as their meal ticket…gobbling them up decade after decade.
Tired-of-the-snow-job
October 24th, 2011
7:39 am
Even my mother of 72 that has voted over 50 years had a hard time getting a state issued ID card after she misplaced hers. She cannot drive and is medicated so has a hard time riding buses on her own. Not much family in her city as she refuses to leave her home of 30+ years. It costed much more than her fixed income budget allowed. She got the money and went to get the ID but had tbeen misinformed on the cost and document requirements. Money and time wasted. She had to go to the court house to get a birth certificate but had to wait til the 3rd of the month to get more money for the cab. I finally arranged to get everything taken care of from Atlanta, got her a ride, sent the money, phoned the state officials for all requirements and double checked everything I could online. Finally, she got an ID.
She is poor and elderly and the ‘process’ was just too tough…others would have been frustrated and quit…but we wouldn’t let her.
How bout spending some money on thumb print technology like the banks use to prove who you are. When you vote or register to vote or get a driver’s license/ID or go to the bank, doctor, dentist, pharmacist, register for welfare, go to jail, pay a court ticket, register your child for school….get this done. Have thumb-printing a big part of everyday life. Then let’s see how many thumbs are cut from the bodies of dead people to cast a fraudulent vote…most violators won’t go that far…now we got em.
Sounds like a great movie, too!! Look out Spielberg!
My mother deserved to vote. And her middle-classed family had to get it done for her. What about those who can’t do what seemingly seems simple? This goes back to the days when African Americans were forced to take a literacy test to vote…always trying to prevent voting instead of encouraging and defending people’s right to vote.
Max
October 24th, 2011
7:40 am
Kyle, my cousin’s friend’s bosses’ neighbor’s gardener’s barber’s niece’s tennis doubles partner told me that – this one time at Band Camp – that they heard somebody say they were going to cheat on a test. I guess that means we need to come up with new laws to prevent test cheating.
Dude, serious, the plural of anecdote is *not* data. The fact that there have been successful prosecutions for a crime does not mean you need new laws.
Wait – I just realized something. KYLE IS BECOMING A NEO-LIBERAL!!!!
Sigh.
Jimmy62
October 24th, 2011
7:42 am
I’d like to know how opponents think they can know there’s very little voter fraud. If you’re not checking for it, then you’re not going to catch it, and if no one has to show ID, then how are you supposed to check for it. I’ve also heard people say that it doesn’t matter because the fraud only affects registrations, and that it’s a lot harder to vote fraudulently. So why bother having registration if it matters so little we are satisfied with massive registration fraud from groups like ACORN?
Personally I think the vast majority of African Americans, and poor people of any color, are capable of getting IDs. Attempts to say otherwise merely demonstrate the in their own minds superiority of the critics, who think the “savages” can’t tie their own shoes without an assist from the state.
joe
October 24th, 2011
7:43 am
In 1850, there was a Kyle Wingfield working for the Charleston SC newspaper of the times, and he wrote the exact same article, complaining that his slaves never voted anyway, so why bother with polling them?
Kyle is a Nazi-class racist from hell, and he belongs behind bars.
jdawg
October 24th, 2011
7:44 am
Ms. Rant,
I refuse to call you Ayn, because that would associate you with an individual with more intelect in her left pinky than you have in your whole liberal dinner party club. Please site the exact reference in the Constitution guaranteeing ANYONE the right to vote.
#Occupy my desk...
October 24th, 2011
7:45 am
Ayn – how is providing obtaining an ID an irrelevant burden? You can’t buy a pack of smokes or a case of beer without one technically, but it somehow turns grueling around election time. I never tire of my liberal friends acting like widespread election fraud by dems is just preposterous. I grew up in Chicago where “voting early and often” gets its wind. I guess until you see people being bussed in from Cabrini or Robert Taylor to vote with a pre-populated ballot in exchange for a quart of vodka and a pack of cigs, you don’t think its an issue. Voter ID laws would have a pretty major impact on elections and wouldn’t benefit dems, which is why you all are such staunch opponents. I guess democracy is only sacred when it benefits your candidates…
GB
October 24th, 2011
7:47 am
Ayn Rant
You misunderstood. He is not a former Democrat. He is a former congressman. He did not change parties. He is no longer in Congress.
And he is black. Far from a Dixiecrat.
Atlanta1
October 24th, 2011
7:48 am
Respectfully Todd, while I will not call you an idiot; nor is Wingfield. Voter fraud is very real. Asking someone to show a picture I.D. is perfectly reasonable. Now, it the law read that a certain person of color or gender were required to show picture I.D. – then I can certainly understand your’s or Ms. Rants thought process.
JDW
October 24th, 2011
7:50 am
First off I don’t believe that voter fraud has impacted a single election in the last 40 years nor do I believe it will do so in the future. Have there been isolated cases on both sides sure, but not of enough scale to worry about. That said should fraud occur in an election it will happen because the electronic voting machines have been hacked. Not providing a paper audit capability for those machines is a disaster waiting to happen. Second I don’t see any reason showing proper ID to vote should be a problem. Is the law we have now well written…probably not…but for crying out loud go get an ID, its not hard.
GT
October 24th, 2011
7:53 am
The Republicans have this wonderful way of looking at things in present time, all credit reports or history is thrown out and we have totally innocent white people being victimized. They sound like the people on death row wanting the world to forget they have killed someone and start having a conscience about the sanctity of life. Life doesn’t work that way. The Republicans want us to forget they bailed out the banks, put us into a war we couldn’t win and were ill prepared to manage for 9 years. It is always that was then and this is now with them. Study them closely and you will see they have repeated over and over the same paranoid and hate driven functions no matter the actors, the play is always the same.
Republican Logic
October 24th, 2011
7:54 am
The Obama Administration has turned a net monthly job loss of 700K into job growth of about 150K a month in about 2 1/2 years. However a net improvement of 850K jobs PER MONTH is a failure cause we say so.
GB
October 24th, 2011
7:55 am
Joe:
Lefties are constantly calling conservatives Nazis. Don’t you know anything about Nazis? The term refers to a movement that created a state with vast power over its people. The government ran everything. Wingfield’s philosophy is as far away from Nazism as you can get.
Don’t dumb down the definition of a Nazi so that it means merely someone who disagrees with a liberal. That is an affront to the victims of real Nazism.
Republicans = Democrats
October 24th, 2011
8:07 am
Libtards cheat…..conservatards cheat. Get over it. Clean house. Get rid of ALL of them.
Maintaining Sanity in Today's World
October 24th, 2011
8:11 am
The New York Times yesterday underscored an important fact that so many legislators have willfully ignored: “There is almost no voter fraud in America.” Indeed, The Department of Justice investigated over 300 million votes cast between 2002 and 2007 and found no cases of voter impersonation fraud. In Texas, where Governor Rick Perry used a highly unusual procedural maneuver to accelerate passage of a bill requiring a government-issued photo ID to vote, the state Attorney General found no cases of voter impersonation fraud. Zero.
And
These new laws could make it significantly harder for more than five million eligible voters to cast ballots in 2012.
There is an evil un-American ulterior motive at work here.
the red herring
October 24th, 2011
8:22 am
nothing wrong with making people prove they are who they say they are. people have to do it buy alcohol, write checks, etc.—wonder why the liberals aren’t up in arms over those laws. it is a stupid argument used simply to try and let them achieve their goals of having people vote illegally. no court in the land should stand in the way of voter i.d. laws.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 24th, 2011
8:34 am
Not to put too fine a point on this but there are about as many really strange and ignorant comments about the voting process as I’ve seen in a long time.
First, absentee balloting. No, you don’t need a picture ID to get an absentee ballot. HOWEVER, most jurisdictions have the requester sign their paperwork and the ballot signature can be (and is) checked for accuracy. Is it perfect? No, but when you have third-party canvassers creating hundreds, if not thousands of registration cards (and yes, I’ve seen them first-hand, all made out in the same handwriting), signature checking becomes a relatively effective way to keep fraud from happening on absentee ballots.
Now, as to the hacking of electronic voting machines. Somebody has been watching conspiracy videos again. Can it be done? Absolutely! If you leave the machines unattended and unlocked (almost impossible) and if you have at least 2 other knowledgeable conspirators and a lazy voter registrar. Does a paper audit keep a potential hack from being discovered? Absolutely NOT!
Finally, to the poster with an elderly mother who is medicated and can’t get out. It may seem a bit heartless here, but should someone who is medicated enough to not be able to get out on their own be voting? If you can’t do the things that can get you an ID card, how are you able to cast a vote?
VOTER ID NOW!
October 24th, 2011
8:35 am
Earlier this week, New Mexico Secretary of State Dianna J. Duran (pictured, left) announced that her office has made a disturbing discovery. After a two-day-long probe into possible fraud in the voter registration rolls, Duran and her team reported that their investigation revealed that at least 117 names of foreign nationals appeared in that database.
What’s more troubling is that every one of those 117 individuals used a social security number that did not match their name. The final result of this cross-checking of files revealed that 37 of those foreigners who illegally registered to vote actually did cast ballots in New Mexico elections.
According to the statement released by Duran, her office scoured documents going back eight years. Bobbi Shearer, the director of the state Bureau of Elections, told reporters that the process of checking this information was arduous, involving very detailed surveys of thousands of names.
Regarding the findings, Shearer commented, “There’s evidence that they’re in the foreign national database, that their name and date of birth matches, and their Social Security number in our database is not valid, and that they did cast votes.”
One county official, Dona Ana County Clerk, Lynn Ellins, downplayed the findings, musing that “no system is perfect.” Added Ellins, “She [Duran] claims 37 people have voted in eight general elections. That’s millions of voters; 37 is not a very big number.”
If 37 voted illegally, how many more have gone undetected? We cannot change the outcome of past elections. Now is the time to prevent the numbers from escalating.
http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/immigration/6734-illegal-aliens-fraudulently-casting-ballots-in-new-mexico
The same discovery was made in Colorado.
Now with Ten Percent More Flavor
October 24th, 2011
8:38 am
Trying to figure out a way to get some votes that Nixon and other Republican’s “southern strategy” drove away. Shall you call it “The Perverse Southern Strategy.”
Maintaining Sanity in Today's World
October 24th, 2011
8:44 am
Duran’s disclosures prompted reporters and the American Civil Liberties Union of New Mexico to file open-records requests for details of her investigation. Duran eventually released heavily redacted documents, citing executive privilege for withholding most of the information….
The Albuquerque Journal, which had endorsed Duran’s candidacy, accused her of hypocrisy in an editorial: “To gauge her progress so far, all they can do is read between her pages and pages of redacted lines.”…
Duran acknowledged that the “vast majority” of irregularities found in the database cross-checks had probably resulted from routine errors made by county clerks while entering information from handwritten voter registration cards into the computer system.
There is an evil un-American ulterior motive at work here.
carlosgvv
October 24th, 2011
8:50 am
If I want to drive a car, I must have a valid Georgia driver’s license. Since so many soldiers have fought and died for my right to vote, I should at least be able to produce a valid ID if I wish to vote. The more certain groups protest anyone having to do this, the more it seems to me they are trying to hide voter fraud. Imagine a large, well funded group trying to stop the law having the right to ask you to produce a driver’s license. I doubt many would believe this was merely a way to protect Black drivers.
Southern Comfort
October 24th, 2011
8:50 am
HOWEVER, most jurisdictions have the requester sign their paperwork and the ballot signature can be (and is) checked for accuracy. Is it perfect? No
My point exactly. Signatures can be copied, and if you’re a professional, you can do it well enough to pass scrutiny from most any election official.
If politicians were really interested in doing away with fraud, they could and would use biometrics to ensure that there was little to no fraud involved. If a person obtains a legitimate ID by means of fraud, no ID law will catch that type of voter fraud. It’s quite hard to duplicate fingerprints, and a simple fingerprint capture would solve any ID issues. We’re already using touch screen voting equipment, so it can’t be too hard to upgrade the equipment to also capture a fingerprint.
VOTER ID NOW!
October 24th, 2011
8:53 am
Maria Azada, 53, of Grayslake, Ill., was arrested March 17 by ICE HSI agents and a Lake County State’s Attorneys special investigator. Azada faces 17 felony counts in Lake County Circuit Court of perjury, mutilation of election materials, and tampering with voting machines in connection with illegal voting by a non-U.S. citizen.
The investigation began in February 2009 when Azada admitted to a USCIS officer during an interview for an immigration benefit that she had voted in an election. It is illegal for foreign nationals to vote in national or state elections in the United States.
A subsequent investigation revealed that Azada allegedly voted nine times in primary, general and consolidated elections between 2003 and 2009. According to the arrest warrant, Azada allegedly falsely claimed to be a U.S. citizen on two Illinois Voter Registration applications.
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1103/110317lakecounty.htm
MPercy
October 24th, 2011
8:57 am
For me the biggest concern causing me to support voter ID requirements is the prospect of millions of illegal aliens voting, with a minor related concern being people who do not reside in the district or otherwise not entitled to vote in the district casting a ballot. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that only legal citizens and eligible voters get to vote. In a nod to the complaints about the process of getting an ID being too onerous, perhaps we can arrange to issue them at the time and place where applicants register for welfare benefits?
The 2nd concern is absentee voting irregularities. IIRC, the absentee ballot includes an affidavit. Election boards should invest some scrutiny on these and pursue some felony perjury charges when warranted.
#occupy my desk...
October 24th, 2011
8:58 am
GT – you need to check your history in a hurry man – they don’t call him Barry Bailout for no reason. And Republican Logic – you have no idea what you are talking about and the numbers you put up are totally imaginary. So we are netting 150k new jobs/month? Thats awesome! Wait, it isn’t even remotely true though…
JKL2
October 24th, 2011
9:00 am
We had an illegal alien who wanted to join the Army when I was a recruiter. When asked for an ID he gave us 6 drivers licenses and 9 SS cards. But ask a voter to produce and ID to prove who they are…. Crazy talk.
VOTER ID NOW!
October 24th, 2011
9:09 am
And there are also issues within the State of Utah where they found 58,000 illegal aliens had fraudulently obtained driver’s licenses.
Of those, at least 383 were registered to vote, presumably by motor voter. I narrowed some of that down, took a sample of 135 of these individuals and discovered that five were naturalized citizens,
20 were ‘‘deportable’’ by their measure, one is a permanent legal resident and 109 had no record and were assumed to be in the United States illegally. But at least 14 had voted in a recent election, and we know that people move, so that makes it an even
more significant number.
North Carolina ICE agents
http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pri … /33810.PDF
Don't Tread
October 24th, 2011
9:19 am
“it’s a serious problem if it changes the will of rightful voters in even one election.”
Not if you’re a Democrat and want to win “by any means necessary”.
Republican Logic
October 24th, 2011
9:49 am
@#occupy my desk…
And here are the monthly averages for each category over the past year:
Total jobs: increase of 109,917 per month
Private-sector jobs: increase of 136,333 per month
Government jobs: decrease of 26,417 per month
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/oct/20/harry-reid/harry-reid-says-its-very-clear-private-sector-jobs/
USMC
October 24th, 2011
10:00 am
Great article Kyle. I lived in Los Angeles for 6 years and WATCHED Illegal Aliens voting in U.S. elections with no recourse.
It is dishonest and ignorant for a Liberal/DemocRat to contend that minorities are discriminated against when merely asked for identification while voting; plain and simple.
If I was a minority, I would be HIGHLY offended that Liberals/DemocRats don’t think I am intelligent enough to get a simple photo ID from the state.
Southern Comfort
October 24th, 2011
10:06 am
If I was a minority, I would be HIGHLY offended that Liberals/DemocRats don’t think I am intelligent enough to get a simple photo ID from the state.
Well, if it makes you feel better, I AM a member of a minority group, and I’m offended by GA’s law. I’m not offended that they ask for an ID when I vote, but I’m offended that people made such a fuss about fraud, yet they left loopholes to allow fraud to continue while they’re pretending that they got tough on election fraud.
Rick in Grayson
October 24th, 2011
10:08 am
Anyone can get a fraudulent driver’s license with any name and their picture on it! Illegal aliens get jobs by presenting these IDs.
I guarantee that the election officials who examined my driver’s license took all of 2 seconds to look at it. We need the REAL ID that many states refuse to produce for their residents and the US government keeps pushing enforcement of that law into the future.
DawgDad
October 24th, 2011
10:10 am
” I’ve never understood why these opponents are allowed to get away with making what strikes me as a bigoted statement on its face”
You want to see the answer, Kyle? Read today’s AJC Editorial page where David Brooks is presented as “from the right”. Your own editors promote the mischaracterizations.
Did someone mention voter fraud?
October 24th, 2011
10:12 am
Democratic Presidential Election, 1960: Chicago.
MarkV
October 24th, 2011
10:13 am
Kyle: “ I’ve never understood why these opponents are allowed to get away with making what strikes me as a bigoted statement on its face: that African Americans are somehow less capable or motivated when it comes to obtaining a state-issued photo ID.”
This comment is plainly a shameful distortion: I have notheard anybody to claim that “African Americans are somehow less capable or motivated when it comes to obtaining a state-issued photo ID.” The argument is that many are living under circumstances, under which the obtaining of state-issued photo ID is a hardship. A very different thing than “less capable or motivated.”
Kyle’s comment also shows how one-sided is his view: He refutes the claim that voter fraud is non-existent (“there have been successful prosecutions for the offense”) but not that it is “so rare a problem that it’s not worth the potential suppression of a future voter.”
Kyle, tell us how many successful prosecutions have there been, what percentage of voters!!!!
Kyle: “The fact is that lawsuits opposing voter ID lawsuits have, in Georgia’s case and every other case with which I’m familiar, never managed to identify even a single person who’s been unable to cast a ballot because of ID laws.”
That is a silly argument at best. The issue is not that people are unable to cast a ballot because of ID laws, but that it discourages people, black and white, from voting.
JDW
October 24th, 2011
10:14 am
@Tiberus…”Now, as to the hacking of electronic voting machines. Somebody has been watching conspiracy videos again. Can it be done? Absolutely! If you leave the machines unattended and unlocked (almost impossible) and if you have at least 2 other knowledgeable conspirators and a lazy voter registrar. Does a paper audit keep a potential hack from being discovered? Absolutely NOT!”
First off an electronic voting machine is nothing more than a point of sale transaction device just like you see at any retail establishment. It has input ports, network connections, software upgrades, and firmware upgrades that all offer easy access for hackers. Plus the vendors that maintain the software on the machines, mostly developed in India are an incredibly soft target. All you need to do is embed one worm in the next code release. Additionally the vote count itself is managed by data aggregation software that is run externally to the machine. These machines are stored in warehouses when not in use that are easily accessible. There are and untold number of weak points in the chain.
If you look a such networks on a widespread basis the best comparison point is such systems in Europe where most taxes are collected via VAT tax based on those point of sale numbers. The ONLY way they have been partially secured is by the use of a fiscal printer that records each transaction as it occurs providing a clear easily verified audit trail at the transaction level. Voting machines have no such safeguards. A hack should it occur will be untraceable.
Now consider the most “secure” network in the world…The Pentagon
“General Keith Alexander cautioned that Pentagon systems are “probed by unauthorized users approximately 250,000 times an hour, over six million times a day.” The remarks by Alexander, who is also at the helm of the main US spy organizations, the National Security Agency….We at the Department of Defense have more than seven million machines to protect linked-in 15,000 networks,” he noted.”
The state run networks that process the voting data are laughably insecure and have no such security.
Tiberus you are way out of your depth here and completely ignorant as to the real world of network and data security…all it will take is one guy with one worm.
BTW…it was done last month
http://www.salon.com/2011/09/27/votinghack/
Rick in Grayson
October 24th, 2011
10:14 am
MPercy October 24th, 2011 8:57 am
This is a great point…”The 2nd concern is absentee voting irregularities. IIRC, the absentee ballot includes an affidavit. Election boards should invest some scrutiny on these and pursue some felony perjury charges when warranted.”
How many times are perjury charges actually persued? Almost NEVER! The baseball picture lying to CONGRESS is the only one that has made the newspapers and it was Congress. They can’t even convict him of perjury with witness testimony.
Rick in Grayson
October 24th, 2011
10:15 am
The baseball “picture” ….meant pitcher.
MarkV
October 24th, 2011
10:17 am
“You show an id to buy alcohol, board a plane, verify a credit purchase, rent a car, but not to vote? Kind of ridiculous this is even a topic for discussion.”
Ridiculous indeed, this argument. You do not show id to buy alcohol, unless you look young. And we are talking here about mostly poor people in rural areas. Board a plane? Rent a car? Make a credit purchase?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 24th, 2011
10:24 am
“The issue is not that people are unable to cast a ballot because of ID laws, but that it discourages people, black and white, from voting.”
Except that it doesn’t. Except in the whiny community.
redneckbluedog
October 24th, 2011
10:25 am
Ask them up there in Tennessee about the poor 91 year old woman who won’t be able to vote because she can’t stand up to have her picture taken for the picture ID…..ANOTHER GENIUS IDEA FROM THE CONSERVATIVE MIND..!!! Ah…she’ll probably vote Democratic anyway..to keep her SOCIALIST entitlement benefits…..Let’s face it, we’ll all be better off when she kicks the bucket…save us some taxpayer money so we can investigate important things like Solyndra…..
Obozonomics
October 24th, 2011
10:28 am
Republican Logic;
You must really have some good hydro in your house, so please put the bong down and wait at least a week before you even try to think straight… Where did you make those numbers up from? I guess the 450,000 people that LOST jobs last month would not agree that Obozo is a success… But then again you lefties love to repeat “misinformation”, i.e. lies, but repeating it does not make it true…
MarkV
October 24th, 2011
10:31 am
jdawg @7:44 am: “Please site the exact reference in the Constitution guaranteeing ANYONE the right to vote.”
jdawg: Please site the exact reference in the Constitution requiring picture ID for voting.
#occupy my desk...
October 24th, 2011
10:32 am
MarkV – so you are saying yet again that responsible conduct such as having proper ID only apply to those some people. I think I can speak for a lot of conservatives when I say that we are pretty sick of special treatment ongoing. Listen, I don’t know what “undue hardships” would prevent someone from posessing a social security card, birth certificate or proof of residence – I would take any one of the 3 to be honest. It is not like major elections sneak up on people, they can certainly, in the course of a year or 4, get the $8 state ID if they fit the requirements to vote.
I grew up in Chicago; I have seen how the machine works. You all claim that such a law would violate the fairness of an election. What about being fair to us? These malfeasances infringe on our rights. Enough special treatment. You have cheaters and dishonesty hijacking the democratic process.
td
October 24th, 2011
10:34 am
It really does not matter in the south next year because non of the Democratic votes will be counted. Only Republican votes in Georgia and Alabama for President will be counted and the Democratic votes will be thrown out. The Obama administration knows this and will not even come to the state to campaign. If you are a Democrat then I do not know why you even bother in showing up because you vote for Obama is not going to be counted.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 24th, 2011
10:36 am
“First off an electronic voting machine is nothing more than a point of sale transaction device just like you see at any retail establishment.”
Actually, it’s not.
“It has input ports, network connections, software upgrades, and firmware upgrades that all offer easy access for hackers.”
Many of which are disabled, thus rendering many of your access points useless.
“Plus the vendors that maintain the software on the machines, mostly developed in India are an incredibly soft target.”
No, they’re not. You need to be able to change the results of LOCAL elections, which can only be done at the LOCAL level.
“All you need to do is embed one worm in the next code release.”
Nope. You’re thinking computer, rather than voting machine.
“Additionally the vote count itself is managed by data aggregation software that is run externally to the machine.”
First accurate point you’ve made all day.
“These machines are stored in warehouses when not in use that are easily accessible.”
No, they are not.
“There are and untold number of weak points in the chain.”
Actually, there are very few.
And your link was laughable, JDW. You obviously know nothing about voting machines and their security. Once again, a lab environment produced a hack that could only occur if there were no checks and balances from the date the machines are cleared and setup for an election, and there are too many in the real world that would catch these.
Road Scholar
October 24th, 2011
10:38 am
“You show an id to buy alcohol, board a plane, verify a credit purchase, rent a car, but not to vote? Kind of ridiculous this is even a topic for discussion.”
I do not have a problem showing an ID for the above, if getting an ID is readily available through “legal” means. I do have a problem with not having to take a test to have children! (No not a fertility test!) There are so many absent, abusive,unsupportive.. people out there that scare me knowing their children have everything stacked against them!
But I guess they can pick themselves up by their bootstraps!…or baby shoes!
MarkV
October 24th, 2011
10:48 am
#occupy my desk… @10:32 am: “I don’t know what “undue hardships” would prevent someone from posessing a social security card, birth certificate or proof of residence.
You have not mentioned photo ID, have you? So what is your problem with using proofs of residence other than photo ID? The fact is that if someone is intent on voting fraudulently, he/she can obtain a fake photo ID fairly easily. On the other hand, for old, poor, honest people in rural areas it may be a significant hardship to get the photo ID, enough sometimes to discourage from voting.
JDW
October 24th, 2011
10:49 am
@Tiberus…frankly you are so far behind the curve on reality as it relates to data and network security its not worth the time to educate you.
To top it off you obviously did not even READ the link…fyi the guys you say are laughable…
“Argonne National Laboratory, one of the U.S. Department of Energy’s oldest and largest national laboratories for science and engineering research, employs roughly 3,200 employees, including about 1,000 scientists and engineers, three-quarters of whom hold doctoral degrees. Argonne’s annual operating budget of around $695 million supports upwards of 200 research projects, which are broadly described below. Since 1990, Argonne has worked with more than 600 companies and numerous federal agencies and other organizations.”
Right to Vote
October 24th, 2011
10:54 am
I support the voter ID requirements. I think they are common sense. However, I don’t support idiotic statements…. So to JDawg’s question about the right to vote:
U.S. Constitution Amendment 15 refers to the “right to vote” and says it shall not be abridged because of race, color, or servitude.
U.S. Constitution Amendment 19 refers to the “right to vote” and says it shall not be abridged because of sex.
U.S. Constitution Amendment 24 refers to the “right to vote” and says it shall not be abridged for failure to pay a poll tax.
U.S. Constitution Amendment 26 refers to the “right to vote” and says it shall not be abridged or denied for those over the age of 18.
Any more questions about the right to vote in the Constitution? Go find you some more idiotic statements to make.
Bart Abel
October 24th, 2011
10:55 am
RE: “I’ve heard the peddlers of these ballots brag about it, I’ve been asked to provide the funds for it, and I am confident it has changed at least a few close local election results.”
____________________________________________________
Artur Davis was a a lawyer (graduate of Harvard Law) and U.S. Congressman. Yet, he was asked to fund fraudulent ballots? He heard peddlers bragging about it?
Did Mr. Davis contact the FBI? Did he offer to wear a wire so he can catch those who were making the false ballots? Did he even notify the local elections office or Common Cause or, in any way, seek to have these people or such elections investigated?
I’m sorry, but this assertion doesn’t pass the smell test. When Kyle finds evidence of significant ballot fraud, other than the odd ramblings of a man who lost the African-American vote in his bid for Governor (must have been because of “ballot fraud”), then I hope Kyle will let us know.
Republican Logic
October 24th, 2011
10:56 am
@Obozonomics…”I guess the 450,000 people that LOST jobs last month would not agree that Obozo is a success…”
“The economy added a better-than-expected 103,000 jobs in September, the government said in its monthly report–not enough to budge the unemployment rate, but further evidence the danger of slipping back into recession is likely not imminent.”
“Private employers added 137,000 jobs–up 32,000 from August. Thanks to layoffs and cutbacks, the public sector lost 34,000 jobs.”
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Republican Logic says…Job Gain of 103,000 is actually a job LOSS of 450,000 in Republican Universe because here we make the rules!
DixieDemons
October 24th, 2011
11:00 am
Dems need to start filing complaints through the Office of Civil Rights and stop filing lawsuits in civil court. Atfer the Office of Civil Rights investigates they will file the lawsuit. Kind of like what has happened with the banking system and bank failures in our state. FDIC gets involved and the banks get shut down and the FDIC sues the culprits for malfeasance and gross negligence because of their INTENT.
Southern Comfort
October 24th, 2011
11:02 am
Republican Logic
It is completely feasable that 450,000 lost jobs. If that many lost jobs, then there were 553,000 that were hired based on the numbers from BLS. You’d still come out with the same number in the end.
Bart Abel
October 24th, 2011
11:02 am
By the way, nobody claims there is no ballot fraud. There is. But it happens primarily with absentee ballots. Sadly, states haven’t seen fit to do anything about fraud through absentee ballots. More evidence that stated concerns about fraud aren’t real.
As far as Kyle not having seen evidence of anybody not being able to vote because of voter ID laws, here’s one for you…
http://www.timesnews.net/article/9037359/91-year-old-tennessee-woman-can39t-get-voter-id-because-of-long-line
Here’s another…http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10/05/336392/96-year-old-tennessee-woman-denied-voter-id-because-she-didnt-have-her-marriage-license/
larry.333
October 24th, 2011
11:07 am
Voter’s Identification is essential to the Voting Process!!!
ILLEGAL ALIENS HAVE VOTED IN PAST ELECTIONS!!
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 24th, 2011
11:08 am
JDW, I did read the link, as my post referenced. They produced a hack in a lab. Big frikkin’ deal. Doesn’t matter how smart they are in electronics if they can’t get to the machines, which they can’t.
Republican Logic
October 24th, 2011
11:09 am
@Southern Comfort
“It is completely feasable that 450,000 lost jobs. If that many lost jobs, then there were 553,000 that were hired based on the numbers from BLS. You’d still come out with the same number in the end.”
Republican Logic says that when losing a debate regarding the number of net jobs added by a recovering economy try to change the subject to negative integer in the equation while ignoring the larger positive integer. Its our world we make the rules!
JDW
October 24th, 2011
11:13 am
@Tiberus…”JDW, I did read the link, as my post referenced. They produced a hack in a lab. Big frikkin’ deal. Doesn’t matter how smart they are in electronics if they can’t get to the machines, which they can’t.”
Hummm, you must have missed this part…
““The more realistic way to insert these alien electronics is to do it while the voting machines are waiting in the polling place a week or two prior to the election,” Johnston said. “Often the polling places are in elementary schools or a church basement or some place that doesn’t really have a great deal of security. Or the voting machines can be tampered while they’re in transit to the polling place. Or while they’re in storage in the warehouse between elections,” says Johnston.”
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 24th, 2011
11:24 am
“The more realistic way to insert these alien electronics is to do it while the voting machines are waiting in the polling place a week or two prior to the election,” Johnston said.”
Spoken by someone who doesn’t know a thing about election setup. Machines do not sit for a week in polling places. They are delivered and locked up the evening before.
“Often the polling places are in elementary schools or a church basement or some place that doesn’t really have a great deal of security.”
See above.
“Or the voting machines can be tampered while they’re in transit to the polling place.”
Not a chance. No time, no access (unless you think it is poll workers who can be corrupted – not impossible – but not likely, either).
“Or while they’re in storage in the warehouse between elections,” says Johnston.”
Locked, locked, locked. And completely and totally wiped out before each election.
Nice try, JDW, but the moonbats keep setting them up, and reality keeps knocking them down. BTW, how many election processes have you been part of? How many voting machines have you actually had any experience with?
JDW
October 24th, 2011
11:27 am
@Tiberus…four election processes in three states. Six voting machine models and hundreds of thousands of point of sale devices…and you?
The Snark
October 24th, 2011
11:34 am
Kyle, is this what you call proof? A politician reporting second-hand hearsay with no facts, no details, no names, no dates, and no corroboration? No offense, buddy, but you’re straining to see what you want to see.
The fact remains: Republican-leaning states have enacted Voter-IDs laws that disproportionately affect Democratic-leaning voters with no evidence that anyone anywhere has voted under a false name.
Dusty
October 24th, 2011
11:39 am
Well, aint it a shame! This world is not perfect!!
There IS voter fraud. There IS some difficulty for certain people to get ID cards (the elderly and the poor).
The best possible attempt at getting complete legal votes seems to be having an ID card. But it still won’t be perfect.
Maybe we could have a system the courts use. Every voter would hold up their hand and say they promise to tell the truth and nothing but the truth i.e. they are legal American citizens with the right to vote.
Might slow the process a bit but less expensive and probably just as effective as any other plan. Security could check out an occasional random voter for verification.
Truth and honor. We just don’t believe that it works any more. Sad! (And stop calling Kyle rude names. It only makes some of you sound like ill mannered dummies.)
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 24th, 2011
11:39 am
JDW, two here. Good for you. You should know better, however, given your experience with electronic voting machines.
And again, the POS argument is a “POS” argument. They are nothing alike, and you should know that if you actually had set them up.
Jefferson
October 24th, 2011
11:44 am
The GOP wins in GA, but accomplishes little. Fraud or not.
getalife
October 24th, 2011
11:45 am
Yes, lets make it easier for the 1 % puppets to get elected.
Jobs Kyle.
Focus on recovering the 15 million jobs w lost.
Southern Comfort
October 24th, 2011
11:48 am
Dusty
I think biometrics would be much better than any ID. ID’s can be easily counterfeited and manipulated. It’s much harder to counterfeit a fingerprint. All it takes is either a thumbprint or index finger print. You could do away with the paper voter lists and link all polling places to a central server and use a fingerprint capture to verify the voter’s ID.
JDW
October 24th, 2011
11:57 am
@Tiberius…”And again, the POS argument is a “POS” argument. They are nothing alike, and you should know that if you actually had set them up.”
Actually they are EXACTLY alike right down to the circuit boards, form factor, peripherals, the touch screen membrane, display and the card used to access the machine. My experience with the machines is from a business development perspective i.e. analyzing the technology, opportunities, markets and risks relative to entering the market.
campbell635
October 24th, 2011
12:02 pm
You have just proven the oppositions case! In-person voting is NOT the problem. Absentee voting is where the problem exists. Let me add that I have no problem with showing ID. I think both sides of this argument brings out the looneys!
Dusty
October 24th, 2011
12:08 pm
SoCo,
I wonder why biometrics have not been studied for safer voting results. Maybe it has. How would that work with absentee voters?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 24th, 2011
12:10 pm
“Actually they are EXACTLY alike right down to the circuit boards, form factor, peripherals, the touch screen membrane, display and the card used to access the machine.”
Nope. You need to do a LOT more homework on this one, JDW. The hardware is the same, but many of the access points have been disabled via software.
Thogwummpy
October 24th, 2011
12:13 pm
In the referendum on Sandy Springs city-hood a number of years back, when I went to vote, a lady that I knew personally for years was a poll worker…she mentioned to me that earlier in the morning, a Latino man that could barely speak English had my name on a slip of paper, attempting to vote under MY name. Of course, they denied him a ballot, and he turned and ran out. When I heard this, I knew that NEVER again would I tolerate the “there’s no fraud” nonsense that we’ve heard for years from pundits such as the AJC’s former Cynthia Tucker. We need voter ID!
As an interesting corolary story, during the 2008 summer…two volunteers from ACORN rang my doorbell in an attempt to register me. Playing along, I said “Great! This way I can vote for John McCain.” In a huff, they said (still unaware that I was already a registered voter) “Very funny sir!”, turned on their heels and walked away. I shouted, “Hey, why can’t I register?” They said nothing and kept walking. In other words, ACORN only wanted to register DEMOCRAT voters—and thusly as a Democratic operative, they should definitely be forever stripped of any public funding.
Southern Comfort
October 24th, 2011
12:14 pm
Dusty
You can do a print in the same manner that they do the inkless kits for kids. I don’t know exactly how those kits work though. You could have the card printed and notarized before sending it back in. I think that would probably be a small inconvience, but overall, I think it would make it much harder to commit fraud. I would love to see biometrics integrated into the voting process, but that’s just my opinion.
Dusty
October 24th, 2011
12:24 pm
SoCo,
Biometrics sound good to me. I am not familiar with “children’s kits” for fingerprints. Maybe that would not be any more complicated than filling out an absentee ballot.
You are the expert on security. Someone should listen to the experts.
JDW
October 24th, 2011
12:29 pm
@Tiberus…”The hardware is the same, but many of the access points have been disabled via software.”
Nothing a screwdriver doesn’t fix in short order.
yuzeyurbrane
October 24th, 2011
12:30 pm
Kyle, you are too smart to believe your own rationalizations, although perhaps you are just too young to remember the creativity of prior generations in disenfranchsing groups they don’t want to vote. The photo ID law is not only aimed against blacks but also against other groups which are less likely to have drivers licenses like seniors, Hispanics, and inner city residents. Why are you opposed to maximizing the vote and letting the chips fall where they may?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 24th, 2011
12:31 pm
“Nothing a screwdriver doesn’t fix in short order.”
Again, just try it if you can get access. But you can’t.
Southern Comfort
October 24th, 2011
12:33 pm
Dusty
There are kits available where you can have your child’s prints and DNA registered in case they come up missing. The pads don’t use ink, so they are not messy to handle. Here’s one company’s website…
http://www.inklessprints.com/
It’s not hard to scan prints into a computer to verify a match. The only problem with a system like that is there are people who have poor fingerprint quality. Older people and people who do manual labor with their hands, like bricklayers, tend to have poor print quality due to the use of their hands. Unless the print is completely worn down, you can still usually obtain a few point in order to match them. Computer programs can usually take poor prints and still make a good match.
I wouldn’t call me an expert on security. I’m still reading and researching to expand my knowledge on a daily basis. Thanks for the compliment though.
Carol
October 24th, 2011
12:35 pm
Kyle, you could have done a much better job than giving the example of ONE Alabama person who did an about face. I have ONE example of what could happen if you want it. My grandmother wil be 90 in December. Her birth certificate was lost in AL in a fire to the courthouse years ago. She hasn’t driven in nearly 12 years. How is she supposed to prove who she is in order to get a photo id? And in some states you can’t even used an ID from a state university or college. Honestly, how many people have been convicted of voter fraud through the use of a fake ID?
Carol
October 24th, 2011
12:40 pm
Another thing I can’t understand is this. If there are certain documents that I use to prove who I am to get the “government” ID, why can’t these SAME documents be used to prove who I am when I vote. What makes these documents so authentic when I get an ID that invalidates them on election day? Someone please explain how their magic powers appear and disappear.
The Fierce Urgency of NOW
October 24th, 2011
12:44 pm
Voter fraud, at least at the high level of incidence alleged by proponents of voter ID laws, is a MYTH. Another study conducted by the Brennan Center found the incidence of voter fraud at rates such as 0.0003 percent in Missouri and 0.000009 percent in New York. Voter fraud rates across the country were FAR LOWER than the lawmakers pushing voter ID laws have been implying. Michael Waldman, executive director of the Brennan Center, said: “Voter impersonation is an ILLUSION…IT ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS, and when it does, it is in numbers FAR TO SMALL to effect the outcome of even a close election.”
Obozonomics
October 24th, 2011
12:45 pm
Republican Logic;,
I guess you did NOT read the whole article you posted the link to;
“The number of unemployed persons, at 14.0 million, was essentially unchanged in
September, and the unemployment rate was 9.1 percent. Since April, the rate has held
in a narrow range from 9.0 to 9.2 percent.
That’s OK, 14 million unemployed is a success the dimacrats, right? So where are the jobs you keep talking about?
The Fierce Urgency of NOW
October 24th, 2011
12:49 pm
The Republican lawmakers responsible for these initiatives ARE NOT CONCERNED with the problem of rampant voter fraud, because the problem simply does not exist. Rather, they ARE CONCERNED WITH preserving their party’s power. Meanwhile, and they are THREATENING to DISENFRANCHISE millions of people to do so.
The Fierce Urgency of NOW
October 24th, 2011
12:52 pm
The 46th anniversary of President Lyndon Johnson’s signing of the Voting Rights Act is just over a week away. I fear that the upcoming 2012 Election will bear with it countless stories of people having difficulty registering to vote and casting their ballots. Are we going to continue to stand for these blatant affronts on our voting rights? WE CAN’T. WE OWE IT TO OURSELVES AND TO DEMOCRACY TO FIGHT BACK.
mum
October 24th, 2011
1:02 pm
Here’s the story about the lady in Tennessee. You can’t say she didn’t try or was lazy, but it seems like the bureaucracy is set-up to frustrate people so they go away:
“Dorothy Cooper is 96 but she can remember only one election when she’s been eligible to vote but hasn’t. The retired domestic worker was born in a small North Georgia town before women had the right to vote. She began casting ballots in her 20s after moving to Chattanooga for work. She missed voting for John F. Kennedy in 1960 because a move to Nashville prevented her from registering in time.
So when she learned last month at a community meeting that under a new state law she’d need a photo ID to vote next year, she talked with a volunteer about how to get to a state Driver Service Center to get her free ID. But when she got there Monday with an envelope full of documents, a clerk denied her request.
That morning, Cooper slipped a rent receipt, a copy of her lease, her voter registration card and her birth certificate into a Manila envelope. Typewritten on the birth certificate was her maiden name, Dorothy Alexander.
“But I didn’t have my marriage certificate,” Cooper said Tuesday afternoon, and that was the reason the clerk said she was denied a free voter ID at the Cherokee Boulevard Driver Service Center.
Cooper visited the state driver service center with Charline Kilpatrick, who has been working with residents to get free photo IDs. After the clerk denied Cooper’s request, Kilpatrick called a state worker, explained what happened and asked if Cooper needed to return with a copy of the marriage certificate.
“The lady laughed,” Kilpatrick said. “She said she’s never heard of all that.”
Tennessee Department of Safety spokeswoman Dalya Qualls said in a Tuesday email that Cooper’s situation, though unique, could have been handled differently.
“It is department policy that in order to get a photo ID, a citizen must provide documentation that links their name to the documentation that links their name to the document they are using as primary proof of identity,” Qualls said. “In this case, since Ms. Cooper’s birth certificate (her primary proof of identity) and voter registration card were two different names, the examiner was unable to provide the free ID.”
Despite that, Qualls said, “the examiner should have taken extra steps to determine alternative forms of documentation for Ms. Cooper.”
Kilpatrick has had to call the state at least twice after taking someone to get a photo ID or have a photo added to the driver’s license. State law allows anyone 60 or older to have their picture removed from their license.
JDW
October 24th, 2011
1:08 pm
@Tiberius…”Again, just try it if you can get access. But you can’t.”
Ever heard of Stuxnet?
Voter Fraud Makes a Popular Scapegoat
October 24th, 2011
1:08 pm
Allegations of widespread voter fraud is greatly exaggerated. It is simply smoke without fire.
Voter Fraud Makes a Popular Scapegoat
October 24th, 2011
1:12 pm
It is more likely that an individual will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.
scott
October 24th, 2011
1:13 pm
There is nothing inherently wrong about requesting ID to vote so long as the effect is not to disenfranchise eligible voters. The obvious easy fix here is to offer a way to get an official ID that can be used at the polls at no cost to the poor and elderly. Tie it in to the voter registration system.
Reality Check
October 24th, 2011
1:15 pm
If voting made a difference, it would be illegal. Aside from Ron Paul, the difference between any candidate from either of the two major parties is slim to none when it comes to the issues of freedom and liberty. Both are against them in one way or another.
Republican Logic
October 24th, 2011
1:25 pm
@Obozonomics “That’s OK, 14 million unemployed is a success the dimacrats, right? So where are the jobs you keep talking about?”
Republican Logic says that when caught telling absolute untruths (AKA LIES) regarding the net loss of 450,000 jobs in September, when the actual labor department numbers show a net gain of 100,000+ jobs, point out that there are still lots of other people unemployed.
Hope no one notices that when you compare now to the end of the last Republican Administration you find that on a monthly basis jobs production has improved from minus 700,000 to adding over 100,000 per month for a net improvement of 800,000+ jobs per month.
Remember its our world and we make the rules.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 24th, 2011
1:26 pm
“Ever heard of Stuxnet?”
Ever heard of Breaking & Entering? ‘Cause that’s what you’ll have to do to get at these machines.
Voter Fraud Makes a Popular Scapegoat
October 24th, 2011
1:27 pm
Here’s Artur Davis, a former Democratic congressman from Alabama, writing in the Montgomery Advertiser: The truth is that the most aggressive contemporary voter suppression in the African American community, at least in Alabama, is the wholesale manufacture of ballots, at the polls and absentee, in parts of the Black Belt.
WHY should we believe a former congressmen (Dem or Rep) from Alabama? Alabama of all places? Jim Crow is alive and well in Alabama.
mum
October 24th, 2011
1:35 pm
Did this former congressman report the fraud he saw when he saw it? If he didn’t then he’s just as guilty or he gained some benefit at the time.
Grfeat Discussion
October 24th, 2011
1:39 pm
I can’t believe that we are even discussing this. How can you even consider letting people, who may not even have the right to vote, shape policy and the future for everyone else? This proves that we as a nation have totally jumped the shark. I am at a loss.
#occupy my desk...
October 24th, 2011
1:43 pm
Great Discussion – I am in your boat…unfortunately I would venture to bet that significantly more republican voters could produce a photo ID than democrat voters. Which is why you are seeing fierce defense of what could threaten this pool of democrat servants.
GT
October 24th, 2011
1:44 pm
I am with Voter Fraud. We are sounding a bite like the communist block use to sound. “They are liars, we didn’t do it”, when a preponderances of evidence points to the contrary. Alabama constantly wants us to forget who they are and go on their witness that a crime is being committed on this. Arrest somebody, if you are so damn sure it is happening, unless it is more convenient for you to just point it out and let the imagination go wild. Real things in this country seem to get corrected and conspiracies seem to stay conspiracies.
JDW
October 24th, 2011
1:47 pm
@Tiberius…”Ever heard of Breaking & Entering?”
Whew I feel much better now! We know that could never happen in politics.
mum
October 24th, 2011
1:57 pm
This entire procedure has neen in discussion for year so those complaining should have started the ball rolling, especially since last Novembr’s electioning, just in case the laws were changed. My only problem is with the “by-the-book” attitude when it comes to an elderly person who can’t find her marriage license. Good grief, my mother has 12 copies of her birth certificate, but I’ve only ever seen her marriage one in my entire life.
GOP R THE NEW NEO-NAZI'S-SKINHEAD'S WITH HAIR
October 24th, 2011
2:04 pm
WE NOT GONE LET UP IN DA SOUTH,SAYS THE GUD OLE BOY CRUE
GOP R THE NEW NEO-NAZI'S-SKINHEAD'S WITH HAIR
October 24th, 2011
2:06 pm
WHY DOES THE GOP SUPPORT THE SATANIC POLICE-STATE? BECAUSE THEY ARE SATANIC!
GOP R THE NEW NEO-NAZI'S-SKINHEAD'S WITH HAIR
October 24th, 2011
2:10 pm
THE HICKS HERE IN GEORGIA DIDNT LIKE HERMAN CAIN WHEN HE RAN AGAINST SUXBY SHAMELESS,BUT NOW THE REDNECKS LOVE HIM!
Obozonomics
October 24th, 2011
2:13 pm
GOP R THE NEW NEO-NAZI’S-SKINHEAD’S WITH HAIR;
Last I checked you are free to leave anytime.
Tell the Truth and Shame the Devil
October 24th, 2011
2:49 pm
GOP R THE NEW NEO-NAZI’S-SKINHEAD’S WITH HAIR October 24th, 2011 2:10 pm
I totally agree YOU!
Hillbilly D
October 24th, 2011
4:22 pm
I’ve never understood the big fuss about this. Up here in the Hills, I’ve been asked to show my Driver’s License, when I vote, for at least 20 years. The next question is usually, “So how are your folks doing, haven’t seen them in a while? My brother went to school with your daddy, you know” or something similar. They know me, they know who I am, they even know, when they see my first name, who the 3 people that name comes from were (in some cases they even knew all 3 personally). They ask me to show ID anyhow, because everybody is treated the same.
I would agree, in the interest of consistency, the absentee ballot process needs to be tightened up a bit. Perhaps people would apply for the ballot in person, given say a month or two window, to do that in.
No system is perfect and no system is fool proof.
The most common instances of voter fraud that I heard of in the past, were people who couldn’t read or write, being accompanied to the polls and assisted by someone who could. That usually involved the person who couldn’t read and write being paid $5 or $10 and the assistant was to insure they actually voted for who they were paid to vote for. Been about 30-40 years since of heard of that happening, though.
Probably the two most celebrated cases of voter fraud that I ever knew about were LBJ and Herman Talmadge.
Gm
October 24th, 2011
5:20 pm
Let see, kyle name me one person thats been convicted on voters fraud? everyone can see the rules changed when Obama won the election, conservatives were out class and out worked by Obama campaign.
People like you dont want to see the truth, minorities were standing behind Obama and the conservatives bigots of rep party are trying to change the rules now, Kyle you will feel better if you just say what you really are.
Old Timer
October 24th, 2011
7:21 pm
Require absentee voters to show ID in the same way that people do at the polls. Then I’ll believe your argument that voter ID is not racial or classist.
The facts: the typical absentee voter is white and middle-class. You’ll be waiting a long time before you’ll see a law requiring an absentee ballot requester to produce ID. Prove me wrong.
hryder
October 24th, 2011
7:33 pm
The only people who should legally be permitted to vote are those that have actually paid taxes to local, state, and federal entities. Those receiving government funds due to conditions(entitlements) would only vote when such funds were deducted from net taxes paid and result indicated that there remained a plus in taxes paid. Logically, there is no way that people should be able to vote for new entitlements or add to current entitlement benefits when they will directly benefit. This is the equivalent of hiring the fox to guard the hen house. Additionally, a voting period of six weeks with acceptable ID, appearing in person, would handle most all problems with absentee ballots and new technology could handle the remainder of possible problems.
Shabootyquiqui
October 24th, 2011
7:46 pm
Vote fraud and voter ID are distractions from a potentially bigger problem, Georgia’s electronic voting machines.
There is no receipt or paper trail of the ballot you cast. You just trust that the computer was programmed to correctly/honestly count the votes, and hope that the system has not been hacked.
JDW
October 24th, 2011
9:03 pm
@hryder…”The only people who should legally be permitted to vote are those that have actually paid taxes to local, state, and federal entities.”
That concept is known as a poll tax and we got by that in 1965.
Hillbilly D
October 24th, 2011
9:37 pm
This is why the poll tax is no more. It’s unconstitutional. It also covers all other Federal taxes.
Amendment XXIV, Ratified January 23, 1964
Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay poll tax or other tax.
Section 2.
The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Obama Ally Speaks Out For Tougher Voter ID Laws « Voter Id « Voter Identification « Verify The Vote AZ
October 28th, 2011
10:28 pm
[...] at National Journal/HotlineOnCall and a commentary piece at the Atlanta Journal Constitution that opines: There is a constant refrain from the opponents [...]