Tuesday night’s GOP debate: Everyone tries to hold steady, but did Newt just make a move?
Tuesday night’s debate was the last one until mid-November, and that’s a good thing. After last night, the candidates may well need a cooling-off period from one another.
Reagan’s 11th Commandment — never speak ill of a fellow Republican — was broken early and often. The candidates went after Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 tax-reform plan right off the bat, and it was at best a draw for the Georgian. He really does receive some unfair attacks when his reform plans are conflated with state taxes: His answer that the state taxes (particularly sales taxes) will exist regardless is true, and no one would argue that leaving income taxes higher than 9 percent is somehow unfair for those states that have income taxes.
On the other hand, his defense against charges that the plan is regressive isn’t working. He can’t simply say “not true” about the analyses that conclude it would lead to higher taxes for lower- and middle-income families, and expect people to believe him. More broadly, he struggled yet again with questions about foreign policy, seeming to say he wouldn’t negotiate with terrorists — except in those cases when he would. He has a month to bone up on such questions before the next debate, which will be focused on foreign policy.
Mitt Romney took his turn in the dunk tank next, and it was his own fault: He answered a question about jobs and the economy by mentioning his pledge to repeal Obamacare. Rick Santorum brought up Romneycare and said the former Massachusetts governor had no credibility on the issue, and the splashing began. It was the first time during these debates that Romney has seemed flustered — although that was nothing compared to what came next, when Rick Perry accused him of having employed illegal immigrants. Perry and Romney spent what must have been nearly a minute trying to shout down each other.
Perry was roundly booed by the crowd, which on several occasions seemed to be quite pro-Romney, but he made his most respectable showing in any of the debates so far. He didn’t appear tired and wasn’t tongue-tied. He won’t regain all the ground he’s lost in the past month, but his slide should halt for a while.
On the flip side, Cain’s rise may plateau for at least a few weeks. It wasn’t a bad showing by him, but nor was it as good as the last couple of debates,after which he began climbing quickly in the polls. He has to take his 9-9-9 explanation to another level, and he has to prove he can speak authoritatively about topics other than taxes, jobs and the economy. Given his penchant for making controversial statements, any national headlines he makes between now and the next debate could just as easily be negative as positive.
If Cain were to stumble, the candidate best positioned to take advantage after Tuesday night might be Newt Gingrich. The former speaker seemed to be hitting cleanup all night, taking his turn after a few other candidates had gotten to swing. He didn’t miss much, if at all. And he only took a couple of swipes at the moderator(s) and media in general, fewer than usual.
After months of troubles, there is a chance that Gingrich could allow the other candidates to bloody each other and then be the kind of elder party statesman who waltzes in and unites the sparring factions. It’s still a very slim chance, but that’s more than he had until recently.
Santorum negated his often good statements by, just as often, coming across as petty.
Ron Paul gave the kind of answers we’ve come to expect from him, and they will continue to earn him a certain amount of support, but he is not going to be the nominee (although his son, Rand, may stand a decent chance one day due in large part to the elder Paul’s efforts).
Michele Bachmann made a blatant attempt to pull female voters with an answer about mothers and foreclosed homes, and she generally brought the conversation back to President Obama — in a way that made me think she is seriously angling to be the running mate for the eventual nominee. Most memorably, she let Romney off the hook about Obamacare by arguing that the federal health reform is destined to be thrown out either as a whole or one piece at a time. Romney/Bachmann 2012? (Only if Marco Rubio turns it down.)
The next month will be a critical time. Candidates who are short on money will find out whether they can squeeze enough cash out of their supporters to make it to 2012. They will find out whether their messages are resonating in the early primary and caucus states, or whether they’re too far back too late in the game to make a surge. They will face ever greater scrutiny of the plans they lay out (Perry said Tuesday that he’ll have a new economic plan by week’s end).
The race is about to tighten in a meaningful way.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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147 comments Add your comment
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 19th, 2011
3:38 pm
Actually, Junior, as everyone but you apparently knows, Clinton was not impeached for his infidelities. He was impeached for lying under oath.
UGA 1999
October 19th, 2011
3:39 pm
Getalife….NOONE brought up Clinton until you guys brought up Newt…..This skin eh?
Junior Samples
October 19th, 2011
3:40 pm
AT,
You honestly believe corporations will lower their prices once their taxes are lowered? Because corporations always lower their prices when costs decrease?
In the market for a bridge?
Junior Samples
October 19th, 2011
3:41 pm
Clinton was impeached?
Junior Samples
October 19th, 2011
3:42 pm
Home schooled?
UGA 1999
October 19th, 2011
3:42 pm
Junior…..yes.
UGA 1999
October 19th, 2011
3:43 pm
Junior…..yes, yes and no. hahah
Junior Samples
October 19th, 2011
3:49 pm
I stand corrected, impeachment and the trial (by the upper house) are entirely different.
UGA 1999
October 19th, 2011
3:53 pm
Junior….he was impeached.
PigeonMan
October 19th, 2011
3:54 pm
Good call on Marco Rubio – he could help win Florida. Hopefully, we will all learn more about him soon. All that the media talks about is the fact that he is married to a former Dolphin’s cheerleader.
Did Rubio play pro football? If so, I hope he doesnt shake hands as hard as Jim Harbaugh does!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
3:55 pm
ODD OWL: These non rich Republicans hate President Barack “The Hawk” Obama so much that they’re willing to destroy the whole country in their attempts to defeat him.
————————-
It couldn’t have anything to do with years-long 9% unemployment or annual trillion-dollar deficits.
And your fellow genius progressives here on the board don’t even know what “impeachment” means, or know that Obozo had a filibuster-proof Senate. Remind me again how much smarter y’all are…
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 19th, 2011
3:55 pm
“You honestly believe corporations will lower their prices once their taxes are lowered?”
In this economy? You bet. Because every one of their competitors will do so just to get goods sold that haven’t sold in the past few years, and others will have to lower thier prices in order to keep up. You might recognize this as something called free-market capitalism.
But then, you might not either, Junior.
@@
October 19th, 2011
3:59 pm
Junior & Getalife:
It was Clinton’s lying to the American people that I disliked. All in all, I don’t regret voting for him.
Hypocrisy? You wanna talk hypocrisy? Romney’s 2012 war chest? $32.6 million. Rick Perry’s war chest? $17.2 million.
Obama, who constantly attacks the wealthy? $90 million and counting.
THAT’S HYPOCRISY!!!
AT
October 19th, 2011
4:01 pm
Junior,
I don’t believe it to be true, I know it to be true. If my product’s profit margin instantly increases by X, then I know I have X more margin to lower my price, maintain my existing profit margin, undercut my competition, take their business and thus increase my profits even more. My competition will have the same benefits as well and will have to cut their prices as well. Aside from government interference and artificial price structures imposed by government, this is how it works in the real world. Anyone who sells anything in a competitive market knows this. Econ 101.
Bad Habit
October 19th, 2011
4:04 pm
Here’s the deal. Any candidate that does not want to abolish the present disaster of a tax code is not worth the vote, EXCEPT to get rid of Prezbo Downgrade. And every one of them, except Newt, attacked Herman on his 9-9-9 plan.
JDW
October 19th, 2011
4:14 pm
@Tom…”Interesting post, did this happen about 25-30 years ago?”
Yep right about the time Republican politics turned into Repugnican politics…Newt started the rot from within.
Then to top it all off he was run out of office! It amazes me that anyone would want to hear what he has to say.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 19th, 2011
4:16 pm
“Repugnican politics”
aaaannnnnd . . . I stopped reading. Anyone who can’t take the time to properly denote the political parties in the United States doesn’t deserve attention.
JDW
October 19th, 2011
4:17 pm
@@@…”Obama, who constantly attacks the wealthy?”
Attacks? I think he just believes like 2/3’s of the country that they should pay their fair share of taxes…
http://www.gallup.com/poll/149567/americans-favor-jobs-plan-proposals-including-taxing-rich.aspx
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
4:19 pm
The wealthy need to pay their “fair share”?
Time for another tax cut, apparently? They’re paying their share and most of yours, so quit whining.
JDW
October 19th, 2011
4:22 pm
@Tiberus…”Anyone who can’t take the time to properly denote the political parties in the United States doesn’t deserve attention.”
If the shoe fits, and boy does it ever, they get to wear it. The Republican Party died when Newt took over. They have been Repugnicans ever since.
JDW
October 19th, 2011
4:26 pm
@Barry…”Time for another tax cut, apparently? They’re paying their share and most of yours, so quit whining.”
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 19th, 2011
4:27 pm
“I think he just believes like 2/3’s of the country that they should pay their fair share of taxes…”
Well, it’s a good thing we don’t live in a democracy, then, isn’t it?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
4:30 pm
With apologies to Samuel Clemens: “If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a Democrat.”
Tom(Independent)
October 19th, 2011
4:37 pm
JDW – Perhaps we should go back 100 yrs and talk about Lincoln, since you think 30 yrs ago is important. The past is the past, move on to current times please sir. Face it, you know your guy(Obama) would get blown away in a face-off debate with Newt. Actually I don’t know of anyone who would do well against him one on one. Except maybe Chris Christy(who is not a candidate). Your 2nd comment about 2/3’s of the country think wealthy should pay more. I guess that the 50% of people who pay NO TAXES are a big part of that 2/3’s you mentioned. Also when is the last time that the 50%(who pay NO TAXES) either created or saved a job?? I am not in the wealthy group,but they are the people who create or save jobs. Seriously, do you not realize we would lose jobs if you raise taxes on the wealthy?? This should be about jobs, jobs, jobs, not saving people in Africa, Libya, Egypt, etc!!!!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
4:38 pm
And who are the 1/3 of Americans who DON’T think everyone should pay their fair share?
Most likely, the ones who pay zero. Greedy parasites.
JDW
October 19th, 2011
4:39 pm
@Tiberus…”Well, it’s a good thing we don’t live in a democracy, then, isn’t it?”
Even in a Republic you can only dodge the 2/3’s when the facts are on your side. In this case they are not. When that happens even your “Friends” start taking shots…
From Bloombergs
“But we also object to misinformation, and there have been assertions associated with taxing the well-off that bear scrutiny — notably that taxing them will cost jobs.
It isn’t true. Don’t take our word for it; we know this is so because of the work of Republican economists, who say little evidence exists that increased income-tax rates dampen hiring. If anything, the statistics point in the other direction: When taxes have risen, so have the number of jobs.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-07/atlas-should-shrug-at-u-s-senate-proposal-for-millionaires-surtax-view.html
getalife
October 19th, 2011
4:47 pm
@@,
Our President is winning in our corrupt system.
If you don’t like our corrupt system, join the real American 99 % people to change our corrupt system or stop crying about here.
Stand up cons and stop bending over for corporate power.
It is time to end the coc .
getalife
October 19th, 2011
4:49 pm
oops crying about it here.
Junior Samples
October 19th, 2011
4:52 pm
So gentlemen, the fact that Newt was leading Clinton’s impeachment for lying under oath (about his affair), while having an affair himself, is “keep moving, nothing to see here” because Newt wasn’t under oath?
Regardless of what he told his wive(s), the preacher (and now Priest), and God during his marriage vows? That’s ok with you guys?
And you give him a pass on this little gem of an excuse? “There’s no question at times in my life, partially driven by how passionately I felt about this country, that I worked too hard and things happened in my life that were not appropriate.” -Newt
C’mon…
If that’s who you guys want for President, so be it.
Get ready for four more years.
Regarding the free market capitalism tutorials, you’re speaking about the theory vs. practice.
Did the big 3 car companies drop prices when they closed the plants in the US in favor of foreign labor?
Did Dell slash prices when they offloaded support to India and production to Mexico?
Did Apple slice the cost of the iPhone when they started producing them in China?
The practice is that the newfound gains end up as executive compensation. And if that’s what they want to do, fine. Consumers have the last vote. But it’s not a fair assessment to state that corporations will cut the price of goods once the costs drop as well. Right now it’s just theory.
JDW
October 19th, 2011
4:55 pm
@Tom…”Perhaps we should go back 100 yrs and talk about Lincoln, since you think 30 yrs ago is important.”
Lincoln’s not running or we would be talking about him too.
As for the rest…
“Face it, you know your guy(Obama) would get blown away in a face-off debate with Newt. Actually I don’t know of anyone who would do well against him one on one. Except maybe Chris Christy(who is not a candidate). ”
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion but Newt can’t hold his own against that “stellar” field he is running against. I don’t think he would have much success with Obama either. As for Obama being “my guy” not so much…he just happens to be the lesser of current evils.
“I guess that the 50% of people who pay NO TAXES are a big part of that 2/3’s you mentioned. Also when is the last time that the 50%(who pay NO TAXES) either created or saved a job??”
There is no 50% of people that pay no taxes. About 47% of households pay NO INCOME TAXES BECAUSE THEY DON’T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY. At the same time the do pay Social Security, Medicare, sales, auto, property (if they own any) and assorted other taxes.
“I am not in the wealthy group,but they are the people who create or save jobs.”
Well I am and taxes have very little to do with creating jobs…demand creates jobs.
“Seriously, do you not realize we would lose jobs if you raise taxes on the wealthy?? This should be about jobs, jobs, jobs, not saving people in Africa, Libya, Egypt, etc!!!!”
Don’t take my word…see my 4:39 link to Bloomberg…(psssst the guy that owns them is wealthy too)
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 19th, 2011
5:20 pm
Only one year, 3 months and a day until Herman Cain takes office.
Hot damn, the stupidity is almost over!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
5:26 pm
Q: Did the big 3 car companies drop prices when they closed the plants in the US in favor of foreign labor?
A: No, because even with lower-cost labor, they were still losing money.
Q: Did Dell slash prices when they offloaded support to India and production to Mexico?
A: Yes. In case you haven’t noticed, computer prices continue to drop thanks to brutal competition.
Q: Did Apple slice the cost of the iPhone when they started producing them in China?
A: No. The iPhone is not a commodity and so price is not very elastic. Lowering the price would have been stupid.
JDW
October 19th, 2011
5:33 pm
@Report Blah, Blah, Blan…”Hot damn, the stupidity is almost over!”
And here I was sure that happened January 20th 2009…BTW I think you are going to be disappointed. When it gets right down to making a decision I don’t think the majority will want to go back to losing 700,000 jobs a month, GDP falling by 6.5% or a financial industry in meltdown.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
5:36 pm
Yeah, our President Bush’s eight years of 4-6% unemployment is definitely something Americans don’t want a repeat of.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
5:38 pm
And I’m not sure why it is our President Bush’s fault that so many parasites stopped paying their bills, igniting the financial meltdown.
Republican candidates give viewers a rock ‘em sock’em debate | Full Comment | National Post
October 19th, 2011
5:44 pm
[...] the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Kyle Wingfield wonders if Gingrich, a fellow Georgia native, might be poised for a comeback. If Cain were to [...]
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 19th, 2011
5:48 pm
My neighbor’s dog growls at people walking by minding their own business, eats it’s own feces, has been hosed by the skunks several times, has a giant gash on it’s forehead from one of the nearby kitty cats and barks incessantly into the wee hours of the morning at all of the conjoured up fake demons in it’s empty, simple little mind.
The neighbor said he’d run it off if his stupid kids didn’t love it so much.
I asked what it’s name was, he said “Barak Obama.”
Dusty
October 19th, 2011
5:56 pm
Didn’t watch the debate. I’m not real wild about any of the candidates. Just waiting.
What we need is another Truman or another George W. Bush. That is, smart and practical people with a moral character and a spine.
I’d love to see former Sec. Defense Gates running. He is exactly what we need. Don’t think anyone asked him and I don’t think he would run anyway.
Perry comes close. Job Bush should be asked to run. We’ve got enough “flash in the pans”. We need someone substantial, the opposite of Obama whose decisions are made by advisors because he has neither the experience nor the convictions.
Rafe Hollister
October 19th, 2011
6:01 pm
For you Libs that have a private sector job and think Oblamer and company care about private sector jobs.
Reid signals government jobs must take priority over private-sector jobs
By Pete Kasperowicz – 10/19/11 10:16 AM ET
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) on Wednesday indicated Congress needs to worry about government jobs more than private-sector jobs, and that this is why Senate Democrats are pushing a bill aimed at shoring up teachers and first-responders.
“It’s very clear that private-sector jobs have been doing just fine; it’s the public-sector jobs where we’ve lost huge numbers, and that’s what this legislation is all about,” Reid said on the Senate floor.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
6:08 pm
Reid: Idiot.
TOM MCDOUGALD
October 19th, 2011
6:44 pm
The best thing for America is for Newt to pick Marco Rubio for VP and they win. Newt commits to only 4 years as Pres., so he is only going to do what’s best for the country- Rubio wins the Presidency 4 yrs. later to finish cleaning up the Obummer mess.
@@
October 19th, 2011
7:10 pm
JDW:
Attacks? I think he just believes like 2/3’s of the country that they should pay their fair share of taxes
Ditto what Lil’ Barry said.
Count me among the minority, JDW. I will never believe I’m entitled to that which belongs to someone else. Were it so, I’d be a thief…a burglar.
It’s that “do unto others” thingy.
Michael H. Smith
October 19th, 2011
7:35 pm
Stick around brucie, your beliefs are going to change after November 2012. America does not share the same fascist-socialist belief system as that of your comrades obumer and van jones.
JDW
October 19th, 2011
9:00 pm
@@@…”Count me among the minority, JDW. I will never believe I’m entitled to that which belongs to someone else. Were it so, I’d be a thief…a burglar.”
Asking those that benefit most from the economic environment created by the our tax dollars to contribute their fair share is not stealing. It is more like dividing up the tab after a large dinner. The guy that drank all the wine and ate all the appetizers pays more.
Fact is all those tax dollars go to create a system that enriches a small minority greatly and they should pay the most to maintain that system. Right now they are stiffing the country on the tab to the detirment of everyone.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
9:04 pm
Fact is all those tax dollars go to create a system that enriches a small minority greatly
——————————-
BS. All those tax dollars go to parasite maintenance programs–social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, section 8 housing, and government employees.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
9:28 pm
Fact is all those tax dollars go to create a system that provides everyone with an equal opportunity to make the most of their hard work and talents. Right now 50% of the population chooses to take it easy, pays zero income tax, and is are stiffing the country on the tab to the detirment of everyone.
———————————
Fixed.
Perry hints at the outlines of his economic plan | Kyle Wingfield
October 20th, 2011
5:10 am
[...] Perry said during Tuesday night’s debate that he was on the verge of releasing his economic-growth plan. In a speech Wednesday, the Texas [...]