Tuesday night’s GOP debate: Everyone tries to hold steady, but did Newt just make a move?
Tuesday night’s debate was the last one until mid-November, and that’s a good thing. After last night, the candidates may well need a cooling-off period from one another.
Reagan’s 11th Commandment — never speak ill of a fellow Republican — was broken early and often. The candidates went after Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 tax-reform plan right off the bat, and it was at best a draw for the Georgian. He really does receive some unfair attacks when his reform plans are conflated with state taxes: His answer that the state taxes (particularly sales taxes) will exist regardless is true, and no one would argue that leaving income taxes higher than 9 percent is somehow unfair for those states that have income taxes.
On the other hand, his defense against charges that the plan is regressive isn’t working. He can’t simply say “not true” about the analyses that conclude it would lead to higher taxes for lower- and middle-income families, and expect people to believe him. More broadly, he struggled yet again with questions about foreign policy, seeming to say he wouldn’t negotiate with terrorists — except in those cases when he would. He has a month to bone up on such questions before the next debate, which will be focused on foreign policy.
Mitt Romney took his turn in the dunk tank next, and it was his own fault: He answered a question about jobs and the economy by mentioning his pledge to repeal Obamacare. Rick Santorum brought up Romneycare and said the former Massachusetts governor had no credibility on the issue, and the splashing began. It was the first time during these debates that Romney has seemed flustered — although that was nothing compared to what came next, when Rick Perry accused him of having employed illegal immigrants. Perry and Romney spent what must have been nearly a minute trying to shout down each other.
Perry was roundly booed by the crowd, which on several occasions seemed to be quite pro-Romney, but he made his most respectable showing in any of the debates so far. He didn’t appear tired and wasn’t tongue-tied. He won’t regain all the ground he’s lost in the past month, but his slide should halt for a while.
On the flip side, Cain’s rise may plateau for at least a few weeks. It wasn’t a bad showing by him, but nor was it as good as the last couple of debates,after which he began climbing quickly in the polls. He has to take his 9-9-9 explanation to another level, and he has to prove he can speak authoritatively about topics other than taxes, jobs and the economy. Given his penchant for making controversial statements, any national headlines he makes between now and the next debate could just as easily be negative as positive.
If Cain were to stumble, the candidate best positioned to take advantage after Tuesday night might be Newt Gingrich. The former speaker seemed to be hitting cleanup all night, taking his turn after a few other candidates had gotten to swing. He didn’t miss much, if at all. And he only took a couple of swipes at the moderator(s) and media in general, fewer than usual.
After months of troubles, there is a chance that Gingrich could allow the other candidates to bloody each other and then be the kind of elder party statesman who waltzes in and unites the sparring factions. It’s still a very slim chance, but that’s more than he had until recently.
Santorum negated his often good statements by, just as often, coming across as petty.
Ron Paul gave the kind of answers we’ve come to expect from him, and they will continue to earn him a certain amount of support, but he is not going to be the nominee (although his son, Rand, may stand a decent chance one day due in large part to the elder Paul’s efforts).
Michele Bachmann made a blatant attempt to pull female voters with an answer about mothers and foreclosed homes, and she generally brought the conversation back to President Obama — in a way that made me think she is seriously angling to be the running mate for the eventual nominee. Most memorably, she let Romney off the hook about Obamacare by arguing that the federal health reform is destined to be thrown out either as a whole or one piece at a time. Romney/Bachmann 2012? (Only if Marco Rubio turns it down.)
The next month will be a critical time. Candidates who are short on money will find out whether they can squeeze enough cash out of their supporters to make it to 2012. They will find out whether their messages are resonating in the early primary and caucus states, or whether they’re too far back too late in the game to make a surge. They will face ever greater scrutiny of the plans they lay out (Perry said Tuesday that he’ll have a new economic plan by week’s end).
The race is about to tighten in a meaningful way.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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147 comments Add your comment
Rafe Hollister
October 19th, 2011
12:19 pm
Tiberius, it is not just the “moderates” that will jump over and vote for Romney, all the Democrats will as well. Why would they want to vote in the Dem primary when there is no choice but Oblamer for Pres. New Hampshire has no registration requirements and like GA you can choose how you vote on election day.
The Dems voted McCain last time, which hurt Romney, this time they all will vote for him. Someone like Cain scares the heck out of those on the public dole and those wanting more government.
@@
October 19th, 2011
12:25 pm
Andy:
@@- That’s the scary part, what’s he got on his
mind?
Dunno.
Consider this…Newt’s ego is so huge that the legacy he leaves behind will be all he’s got left. He’s a history buff…wants to go down as a great leader.
He did support SO2 C&T.
He was asked a question one time about a system which imposed caps and allowed trading of excess credits and said that it “could” be a part of the solution IF it was done the way they did the SO2 cap and trade when he was speaker, which was very small, only covered the top 640 pollutors and phazed itself out once the goals had been met by industry coming up with thier own solutions and running the trading system themselves.
Steve
October 19th, 2011
12:30 pm
Here’s a reality check – the clowns in the GOP lineup aren’t going to cut it, and America doesn’t want to vote in the same prop up the rich policies that got us into the mess we’re digging out of now. Obama will beat Romney. Clearly. And if Dems get back Congress (thanks to the ineptitude of the Tea Party), Obama just might have the chance to push things through Congress for once. Conservadems like Ben Nelson are going to be booted.
GT
October 19th, 2011
12:31 pm
I just saying in a drinking establishment you don’t take the political direction of drunks that seriously. In the sense that Hitler collected drunks, thugs and misfits for his organization who were drawn in by the hate message, I think there is something to compare to Nazi Germany. Not a huge amount of thought goes into the far right movement, just if it is not like me kill it.
Tom(Independent)
October 19th, 2011
12:40 pm
Jay@5;31 – Let’s be fair, liberal-head! If you want to keep bringing up Newt’s personal life(wife situation), let’s also talk about your favorite, former President Bill Clinton. It is well-known that Bill fooled around with personal affairs multiple times as Governor, as well as his fooling around with an intern as President. I guess fooling around is a nice way to put it.Personally, I think the public did not care about these events, as the economy was very good during his time in office. We could overlook his little discretions. Newt is the smartest and most knowledgeable man on that debate stage. Words and thoughts seem to easily flow from him. He is straight forward to the public and I like that! By the way, I am not a supporter of his at this time. I will support the candidate who has the best chance to defeat Obama! I hope many Independents feel the same way as I do!!
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 19th, 2011
12:45 pm
Steve, your lack of understanding of the political mood in this country and of electoral politics in general is astounding.
@@
October 19th, 2011
12:48 pm
GT:
I watched a psychotherapist talk about the OWS protesters last night. She, like me, believes that when you externalize your frustrations, you inhibit your own abilities. The power exists from within. If you fail to acknowledge that, power is relinquished to others.
Napkin Notes On the Art of Living Responsibly–Gary Michael Dhurst, PhD. is about YOU! Its purpose is to assist you in experiencing the truth about yourself, your relationships, and your life. We are totally responsible for everything in our experience.
Great book!
HDB
October 19th, 2011
12:52 pm
@@
October 19th, 2011
12:02 pm
One…I don’t fall for political correctness; I’m open for intense, factual discussions
Two: The conservatives have done more to denigrate black Americans than most liberals have! Since many conservatives don’t view me as a constituent, it makes it a bit difficult for me to view them in a positive light! Once the tone of the message changes….maybe the message gets considered!!
Colin Powell acted as a soldier would….he followed orders!! That was his first teaching!! Should he have not followed orders and said what he really thought?? YES…but that’s not conservative orthodoxy; you parrot the talking points and refuse to look at other methodologies!! If conservatives would just listen to themselves and note the hostility…maybe the lines of communication could be opened more!! IMHO….
H. Smyth
October 19th, 2011
12:52 pm
There is only one person in the Republican debates that I will be very comfortable about voting for. Only one person that I feel has the knowledge of what made America great, solutions to help restore that greatness, and the political skills to work within all factions to accomplish those aims. That person is Newt Gingrich. I still see the same old Democrat party line that can only attack a person because they are afraid to debate that person’s ideas.
Jefferson
October 19th, 2011
12:54 pm
Why can’t the GOP have someone that is clearly someone most people like ? None of those cats have it.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
12:55 pm
Obozo: “All the choices we’ve made have been the right ones”.
It’s just the results that are the problem.
Too darn funny!
John Stewart
October 19th, 2011
12:56 pm
It’s OK if Clinton chases women then and now…Obama did cocaine and buddies with anti-American radicals then and now..but Newt can’t get a break even though he is the smartest guy with real answers out there!
MB
October 19th, 2011
1:03 pm
New did a pretty decent job of pointing it out when one of the idiots on stage with him said something completely stupid. Too bad he seems about as interested in winning as Fred Thompson did in ‘08.
UGA 1999
October 19th, 2011
1:05 pm
Jefferson….see that is where you are wrong. We like them ALL more than Obama.
@@
October 19th, 2011
1:08 pm
HDB:
As a conservative, I refuse to practice the soft bigotry of low expectations. I think blacks are more capable than they’ve been led to believe. It’s Democrats that keep telling them they need the government’s help.
I voted for Bill Clinton, who proposed welfare reform but then got distracted by universal healthcare. Obama’sCARE left blacks with an unemployment rate of what…16%? 18%?
Newt pushed Clinton to accept Welfare Reform, and as a result, more blacks were lifted out of poverty. Tough love works!
Charlie The Tuna
October 19th, 2011
1:14 pm
Perry is like the obnoxious, loud-mouthed relative that everyone hopes doesn’t show up at the family reunion.
UGA 1999
October 19th, 2011
1:18 pm
Charlie….he is gong to show up….trust me he is going to show up!
Jack
October 19th, 2011
1:25 pm
I like Newt. He’s likely the best to debate Obama. His personal life is no concern of mine unless I thought it might interfere with his governing.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 19th, 2011
1:25 pm
“Why can’t the GOP have someone that is clearly someone most people like ?”
Jefferson, when did you talk to most people? ‘Cause the polls tell a very different story.
mike
October 19th, 2011
1:33 pm
I think they ought to have more debates so these folks can keep showing America just how dense they really are. Newt needs to stay away from the others wives before he really does make a move. If Newt is your choice to lead this country than we are truly in trouble. These debates are a great SNL performance.
UGA 1999
October 19th, 2011
1:35 pm
Mike….we have had two years to see the how dense Obama really is!
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 19th, 2011
1:37 pm
Nice partisan rhetoric, mike. Care to back any of it up with objective analysis?
HDB
October 19th, 2011
1:45 pm
@@
October 19th, 2011
1:08 pm
I’ll be one of the first progressives to state that revisions to the safety net need to be done…but NOT the wholesale elimination of such as many conservatives desire. I’d rather see the linking of education, job training and welfare spending so that those on welfare can be taught self-sufficiency! Too many here want spending cut…but are unwilling to note the consequences!! I’d rather see a scapel taken to the federal budget rather than a meat cleaver!!
Heath care reform was something that NO administration attempted to tackle save Obama! Never in any idea has the initial iteration been a complete success; it takes revision to make it work! This was the first step in a process that was sorely needed!! NOW….maybe…a mode of thought that would assist ALL of the people rather than those of means pertaining to health care would be considered!!
I have no problem with education and work; that’s how I attained what I’ve done….but the persistent denigration of those below us does more to marginalize progressive processes (education, work, self-sufficiency) in many eyes than the dependent processes. Need to change the TONE and reach INTO the muck rather than to describe it from the outside!!
JDW
October 19th, 2011
1:50 pm
@Tom…”Let’s be fair, liberal-head! If you want to keep bringing up Newt’s personal life(wife situation), let’s also talk about your favorite, former President Bill Clinton.”
Lets do be fair Tom, did Clinton fool around, sure. Did/Does Newt most certainly.
Should either matter…NO.
That said here is the problem with Newt. WHILE HE IS FOOLING AROUND, he tried to make political points off Clintons transgressions and then to top it all off he adopts the “Family Values” theme and spends time lecturing the rest of us on how to “morally” conduct ourselves.
See I don’t really care that he fooled around, it’s the lying hypocrite that he is that I detest and that which makes him unelectable.
getalife
October 19th, 2011
2:08 pm
The adult President Obama won the debate because they argued like children.
willard got a taste of what our President deals with the gop children everyday.
Four more years because you cons can’t find a adult that can beat him.
GT
October 19th, 2011
2:16 pm
I think Bill Clinton actually attracted women, I see Newt as a lecturous class nerd, if that smart, wowing mental flat liners into submission whether it is bed or writing a check. One inch to the left or right and Newt is the type that we find out is a serial killer, weird guy. You have Clinton who went to Yale and seems like a casual intellectual in style and Newt hailing from West Georgia laying it on thick.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 19th, 2011
2:16 pm
I see that one of the children has left the Table over at Bookman’s . . .
Tom(Independent)
October 19th, 2011
2:22 pm
Mike@1;33 – If you are really concerned with a 68 yr old man with white hair being a threat to stealing anyone’s wife, you need some professional help! JDW – Interesting post, did this happen about 25-30 years ago? My memory does not go back that far, sorry? I for one, would love to see a face-off debate between Newt and Barrack! Sorry, maybe I should not have just used first names, is that proper or not, don’t know? I’m just a simple man, as Bill OReilly would say.
Tom(Independent)
October 19th, 2011
2:28 pm
GT – You apparently do not know much about women. He was a POWER womanizer as Governor and President. Women are attracted to power more than looks. Maybe whom he was married to might have contributed to his many affairs? Then again, maybe not?
UGA 1999
October 19th, 2011
2:29 pm
Getalife….you make us all laugh….thanks.
Junior Samples
October 19th, 2011
2:31 pm
Newt cannot practice what he preaches.
How will he reduce the national debt when his own campaign is $1+Millon in the red?
@@
October 19th, 2011
2:32 pm
HDB:
I’ll be one of the first progressives to state that revisions to the safety net need to be done…but NOT the wholesale elimination of such as many conservatives desire.
And I can recall when Republicans, along with most Americans were asking for incremental changes to healthcare, not the complete overhaul that Obama insisted upon. The resounding message was “SLOW DOWN”!!!!! His head was so high up in the clouds, he refused to listen.
From the president on down, your party has sought to denigrate anyone who opposes their policies. Somethin’ to the effect, we’re just not smart enough. Obama said it just the other day. Wanna talk about condescension from a president? It practically oozes from your guy.
Give it up, HDB. I’m not buyin’ what you’re selling. After years of dealing with progressives, here at the AJC, I’ve come to realize how devious they can be.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
2:36 pm
Obozo hates all of America, and only pretends to like the groups he thinks are inclined to vote for him.
HDB
October 19th, 2011
2:48 pm
@@
October 19th, 2011
2:32 pm
Look…it happens on both sides of the equation!! What are conservatives calling those who are unemployed?? LAZY!! Look at how conservatives painted a picture of people on welfare!! “Welfare queens driving Cadillacs” – a favorite phrase of Ronald Reagan!!
“And I can recall when Republicans, along with most Americans were asking for incremental changes to healthcare, not the complete overhaul that Obama insisted upon. The resounding message was “SLOW DOWN”!!!!! ”
If you think about it…incremental changes had NEVER taken place…talked about, yes…but not taken place! How do you implement incremental change without having to be radical in the approach?? At least, NOW, change in the system can commence!!
You don’t have to buy what I’m selling….but be cognizant of the fact that there are MULTIPLE approaches to any situaation…and tone means just as much as the conversation itself!!
Politi Cal
October 19th, 2011
2:56 pm
I was a BIG supporter of Mr. Cain’s until this 9-9-9 nonsense. That plan ADDS to the tax burden of anyone in lower through middle income brackets. If you think it does not, sit down and do the math. I did, and it’s a killer for my famiily. It stinks, Herman!
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 19th, 2011
2:56 pm
“and tone means just as much as the conversation itself!!”
And absolutist statements as you made above are worthless in beginning any conversation.
“Conservatives” calling . . . “Conservatives” painted . . .
You lose ANY platform from which you try to make you points when you paint people with whom you disagree using such a broad brush.
Junior Samples
October 19th, 2011
2:57 pm
Newt’s motto?
Campaign and Spend.
Who else caught onto this idea? Sarah Palin. With no intention of running, she swindled peoples’ hard earned money for hopes she’d throw her name into the ring. Who did Sarah think won the dabate? Newt of course.
New Conspiracy Theory! (someone alert Bob Barr)
Newt actually has no intention of becoming the President.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
October 19th, 2011
2:58 pm
“If you think it does not, sit down and do the math. I did, and it’s a killer for my famiily.”
Then you must have failed math, Politi Cat. Tell us what specifically it does and how, and I will correct your mistakes.
Lil' Barry Blowhard (Revised Upward)
October 19th, 2011
3:02 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
10:11 am
Kay, believe me, I do pay attention. For example, I pay sufficient attention… Obama did have a Democrat congress, complete with filibuster-proof Senate.
You DON’T pay attention or you simply LIE. What is it? Do some research on the 111th Congress. Obama NEVER had a filibuster-proof Senate, lest you forget Al Franken and Scott Brown. As a matter of fact 111th session Republicans set all-time RECORDS for the number of filibusters. Again, facts aren’t really ever your strong point.
UGA 1999
October 19th, 2011
3:04 pm
Politi Cal……oh poor thing you must be referencing the lower class that pays ZERO in federal income tax…..Time to pay up!
@@
October 19th, 2011
3:09 pm
HDB:
Your refusal to acknowledge the positive impact of Newt’s welfare reform says all I need to know about you. You’d prefer not to say anything positive about the other side. You’re no different than those you criticize.
Now go away. You’re just like the others I’ve encountered here. You’re not to be trusted…your sincerity is questionable, at best. I don’t come here to be misled by people like you.
’twas a wise man once told me….”Frisk the liberal first.”
(ISH)
Jefferson
October 19th, 2011
3:14 pm
No wonder.
@@
October 19th, 2011
3:16 pm
And for those who continue to point out Newt’s infidelities. His wife and daughters have moved on with no bitterness in tow. Perhaps you all should do the same.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Unexpectedly Revised Downward)
October 19th, 2011
3:24 pm
Lil’ Barry Blowhard: You DON’T pay attention or you simply LIE. What is it? Do some research on the 111th Congress. Obama NEVER had a filibuster-proof Senate.
——————
http://www.ihavenet.com/politics/Democrats-60-Filibuster-Proof-Senate-Votes-Senator-Al-Franken.html
Looks like YOU need to do some research.
Junior Samples
October 19th, 2011
3:25 pm
@@, it’s not about his children or ex-wive(s).
It’s the hypocracy of trying to oust Clinton for playing the same game, at the same time. Sorry you don’t see that.
Junior Samples
October 19th, 2011
3:26 pm
Hypocrisy…
ODD OWL
October 19th, 2011
3:28 pm
Newt Gingrich is an old line Republican who have traditional mainstream Republican ideas… Newt’s biggest problem is his morally reprehensible character… Gingrich ideas and plan require voters to use their rationality, logic and reason. The vast majority of the non rich Republican voters don’t use any rationality, logic or reason. They simply act on their negative emotional instincts without the benefit of intellect… These non rich Republicans hate President Barack “The Hawk” Obama so much that they’re willing to destroy the whole country in their attempts to defeat him…
AT
October 19th, 2011
3:32 pm
I thought Herman Cain did a good job last night under attack. It’s impossible to properly defend a plan in 30 seconds when attacked with sound bites and misrepresentations of his plan. The made for TV debate circus that the networks continue to play are annoying like that.
When you consider that corporate taxes are going to significantly shrink (more than 9%), that savings will be reflected in lower prices for goods as compared to today. The 9% sales tax will then be added on bringing the price back up to prices we pay today. Whether or not the two even out, I don’t know, but the concept explains why it should not raise taxes on low income people, in theory. The idea is to make a hidden tax (corporate taxes in the price of goods we buy) and make it visible as a sales tax. I like that.
The thing I continue to enjoy about Herman Cain is that he does not speak as a politician. He doesn’t throw out the plastic political catch phases that all the other leading candidate use. His “goofs” have been largely attributed to his refusal or inability to be a plastic phony politician. And again, I like that.
getalife
October 19th, 2011
3:35 pm
“And for those who continue to point out Newt’s infidelities. His wife and daughters have moved on with no bitterness in tow. Perhaps you all should do the same.”
After the million insults to President Clinton from you cons, we will do the same to newt.
Fair is fair.
HDB
October 19th, 2011
3:36 pm
@@
October 19th, 2011
3:09 pm
When did I say that welfare reform wasn’t a good thing?? The problem is that for as many positive things that come out of conservatives, there are at least three times the negatives……..
I’m able to see a lot from your vantagepoint….moreso than you’re willing to look at things from mine……
Wise man also told me…the first thing about a conservative is the CON!! That’s why I look BOTH ways before I cross the street!!