Obama plows ahead with plans to raise taxes, not create jobs
What better way for President Obama to welcome me back from the beach than with a wrong-headed plan to jack up income taxes on “the rich.” From the Hill:
The White House said Monday that President Obama wants to pay for his $447 billion jobs bill by raising taxes on the wealthy and businesses.
In fact, we don’t really need to go beyond that first sentence: Obama’s bright idea is to pay for a jobs bill by raising taxes on businesses. The economy be damned, this president is determined to take money from job creators and use it to renovate school buildings. That would be bad enough — but, as Megan McArdle explains, it’s already too late for school-renovation projects to navigate the federal procurement process in time for work to begin next summer. Which means we’re back to spending money on jobs that aren’t ready for shovels.
Still, let’s soldier on to the details as provided by Jack Lew, director of the Office of Management and Budget:
The chief provision…would be to limit itemized deductions for individuals who make more than $200,000 a year and families that make more than $250,000, something the Obama administration has previously pushed to do through its budget proposals. Lew told reporters at the White House press briefing that this would raise about $400 billion.
The administration would tax the income investment fund managers make, known as “carried interest,” as regular income instead of as capital gains, which has a low 15 percent tax rate. This is another longstanding administration goal that has been resisted by Wall Street as well as some Democrats.
The administration estimates the capital gains change would provide $18 billion in revenue.
The administration also wants to eliminate tax breaks for the oil-and-gas sector, which would raise $40 billion, the administration said.
Another $3 billion would come from changing the way corporate jets depreciate. With a few other revenue increases, Lew indicated the total measures proposed by the administration would bring in $467 billion, $20 billion more than the cost of the bill.
Note, above, that line about the first item being “something the Obama administration has previously pushed to do through its budget proposals.” One wonders whether Obama has produced a “jobs bill” so much as a “tax increase justification bill.”
As it happens, I agree in principle with reducing or eliminating deductions and credits from the tax code — but as a trade-off for lowering marginal tax rates. Instead, Obama plans to raise tax rates on these same taxpayers (while apparently double-counting the increased revenues as part of his deficit-reduction package). He is effectively trying to make the tax code more complicated, not simpler. And experience teaches us that the wealthy are best positioned to take advantage of a complicated tax code and send Uncle Sam less money than he expected. This is a lose-lose-lose.
And yet this is not the only major flaw with Obama’s proposal. The congressional “super committee” tasked with drafting a deficit-reduction plan this fall is expected to consider flattening the tax code — that is, removing loopholes and lowering rates — for all taxpayers as part of its package. But if Obama removes loopholes for high earners to pay for his jobs plan, does anyone really think the super committee is then, separately, going to remove loopholes for the middle class?
And without that component, everything else on Obama’s list of “pay-fors” amounts to peanuts relative to the cost of the jobs bill.
This plan will win plaudits from the likes of MoveOn.org — and given the president’s deep political problems heading into 2012, maybe that’s all it’s designed to do. But it’s a double-whammy for the millions of Americans who are out of work and tired of hoping for change.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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211 comments Add your comment
USMC
September 19th, 2011
12:49 pm
It all goes back to Charlie Gibson’s question to then candidate Comrade Obama:
Comrade Obama defines ignorance with regard to economics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpSDBu35K-8
GTT
September 19th, 2011
12:51 pm
Me, I’d go back to the beach.
Logical Dude
September 19th, 2011
12:55 pm
quoting: The economy be damned, this president is determined to take money from job creators
You mean the ones who aren’t creating any jobs? (snarky)
Let’s say he kept a loophole if you actually CREATED jobs. Would you be for the tax increase then? I hear all this talk about “job creators” but if they’re not creating jobs, they’re just using tax loopholes to benefit the few “rich” folks.
Jefferson
September 19th, 2011
1:03 pm
Well there you are, something to hate.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
1:08 pm
Welcome back, Kyle. Hope the vacation was a good one.
“Obama’s bright idea is to pay for a jobs bill by raising taxes on businesses.”
Yep. The new “up is down”, “left is right”, “black is white” topsy-turvy world of the liberal mind is hard at work in the White House.
Joe The Plumber too.
September 19th, 2011
1:12 pm
The dems are not even with him on this one, they are lukewarm at best. This is just another feeble attempt at trying to fool the country from a one term and out pretender in chief.
John
September 19th, 2011
1:32 pm
Bill Clinton raised taxes and how many jobs were created?
George W. Bush lowered taxes and how many jobs were created…um, lost?
John
September 19th, 2011
1:41 pm
Just how much money are these ‘job creators” currently sitting on and still not creating jobs? Apple alone has $76 billion cash on hands. How is giving them tax reductions so they can horde more cash going to create jobs?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
1:47 pm
“Bill Clinton raised taxes and how many jobs were created?”
Doesn’t matter. Simply raising taxes or lowering taxes by themselves doesn’t do a thing for an economy.
John
September 19th, 2011
1:54 pm
Kyle,
How can you call them “job creators” when for the past few years they’ve been eliminating jobs?
John
September 19th, 2011
1:57 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
So you admit, raising taxes on the wealthy does not destroy jobs like the right claim.
MarkV
September 19th, 2011
1:59 pm
If anybody hoped Kyle would come back with more reasonable arguments, he/she must be disappointed.
“In fact, we don’t really need to go beyond that first sentence: Obama’s bright idea is to pay for a jobs bill by raising taxes on businesses. The economy be damned, this president is determined to take money from job creators and use it to renovate school buildings.”
Inn other words, according to Kyle creating jobs has nothing to do with economy. According to Kyle, if people get jobs, and have money to spend, it does not help economy. What is important that investment fund managers do not pay more than a pittance in taxes on the billions they make.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
1:59 pm
“So you admit, raising taxes on the wealthy does not destroy jobs like the right claim.”
No, and don’t attempt to speak for me.
Raising taxes will not “destroy” jobs, but it certainly won’t give any incentive to those who could create jobs to do so.
Tall
September 19th, 2011
2:03 pm
“Bill Clinton raised taxes and how many jobs were created?
George W. Bush lowered taxes and how many jobs were created…um, lost?”
John:
Go back and check the unemployment rates during the GWB years and you will find that unemployment never exceeded 6%. That’s remarkeable given the 9/11 crush.
Yes, President Clinton did raise the tax rates, but he was the beneficiary of a technology boom that
lifted everyone up. No, he did not create those jobs.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
2:04 pm
Anytime a poster uses the term “In other words” they are trying to misstate the writer’s original intention because they can’t back up their position without doing so.
MarkV
September 19th, 2011
2:05 pm
What is lost in these arguments about lowering taxes for “job creators” and getting rid of regulations is that none of those things would have a measurable effect in the short run. People need jobs now, not when those things might perhaps have any effect. To push those things is understandable when the goal is not to create jobs and help the economy, but to prevent Obama’s reelection.
John
September 19th, 2011
2:12 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
“Raising taxes will not “destroy” jobs, but it certainly won’t give any incentive to those who could create jobs to do so.”
Please explain. If taxes were raised to pay for the jobs bill which the government would invest that money in private companies to rebuild our infrastructure…jobs would immediately be created putting some in the working class back to work. This would put money in their pockets allowing them to spend (increasing the economy) this spending could generate demand for products which in turn could spur hiring so companies could meet the demand for their products (supply and demand which is often spewed by the right). This is how we could grow the economy. Companies hire based on need to supply their needed products.
But instead, Republicans believe we need to protect the wealthy. Tell me how does that create the demand for increased production which would then create the need for job growth that leads to a growing economy?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
2:12 pm
To think that government can do anything to create enough sustainable jobs through stimulus programs or tax savings alone is simplistic and economically unwise given our current debt and deficit issues.
Looking for instant gratification in turning around an economy is just as ridiculous. Less government interference is the ONLY way to create sustainable jobs and a permanently robust economy. Republicans and especially Democrats who continue to try to tinker at one thing or another without looking at the long-term picture will doom us in trying to make real, substantive changes in the way this economy work (or doesn’t).
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
2:15 pm
John @ 2:12>
We did that with over $1 trillion dollars 2 years ago, and it didn’t work then. Why do you have any idea that the same policy would work now, in an even smaller form?
This is the typical thinking of those who do not understand the complexities of an national and world economy.
MarkV
September 19th, 2011
2:22 pm
Kyle,
Instead of criticizing an increase in taxes of the rich, why don’t you tell us exactly which provisions of the jobs bill you oppose, and why?
MarkV
September 19th, 2011
2:23 pm
The stimulus worked the first time. There is no reason why it would not work again.
ragnar danneskjold
September 19th, 2011
2:28 pm
Welcome back, Kyle, hope the batteries are recharged. I have a great idea – in the spirit of comity, I think the Republicans ought to agree to the Obama tax plan on three conditions: (1) it is imposed in the 2008 blue states only, (2) it is made retro-active to Jan 1, 2011, and (3) it will expire after one year, i.e., at the end of tax year 2011, to ensure that 2012 voters have a reminder of the virtues of democrats.
John
September 19th, 2011
2:32 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
“We did that with over $1 trillion dollars 2 years ago, and it didn’t work then.”
Really, it didn’t work? Didn’t it get us out of a recession? What’s your source that it didn’t work?
According to the August 2011 CBO report, it
1) Raised GDP by between .8% and 2.5%
2) Lowered unemployment rate by between .5% and 1.6%
3) Increased the number of people employed by between 1.0 million and 2.9 million
4) Increased the number of full time equivalent jobs by 1.4 million to 4.0 million
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
2:33 pm
“The stimulus worked the first time. There is no reason why it would not work again.”
Wrong as usual, MarkV. It created or saved only half as many jobs as it was touted to save, and with the spending going away, those temporary saved or create jobs are now starting to go away as well. Look at all the communities across America who spent that money on teachers, fire fighters and cops. They’re now realizing that in order to keep those jobs NEXT year, taxes will have to go up (as they should have in the FIRST place) or they’ll need more deficit spending from Wash. D.C. to make their budgets work.
Because the spending was temporary.
You haven’t seen retail numbers increase very much in the past 2 years, have you? Of course not. That’s because so much of the spending that went into those jobs was used to pay off EXISTING bills, not buy very many new things.
Government-funded stimulus is nothing more than shovel crap against the tide. You can’t stop the tide.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
2:35 pm
John, first rule of thumb.
Do not try to make your case using CBO numbers. That organization is the epitome of “Garbage In – Garbage Out”.
John
September 19th, 2011
2:39 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
So why do both Democrats and Republicans use CBO projections?
MM
September 19th, 2011
2:40 pm
I would like to deal with this “job creator” nonsense we hear so much of from pro-business proponents. The guy or gal at the top of the employment heap has an important role in assembling the necessary capital and doing the top-level planning necessary to start or expand a business but what is less acknowledged is the critically important role played by other workers. It’s common sense that if any worker down the line does not do his or her job the “value chain” breaks down so that no product will be delivered and the firm will fail and a job will be snuffed out. We are conditioned to worship the person on top of the heap but if every person does not do their job then the boss is effectively a voice crying out in the wilderness who accomplishes nothing. We should go easier on the hero worship and recognize and respect that every worker creates a job or the firm fails.
John
September 19th, 2011
2:42 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
Again, I’ll ask…where is your source analyzing and document how the stimulus package made the economy worse?
Ayn Rant
September 19th, 2011
2:47 pm
Welcome back, Kyle! Actually, President Obama’s job-creating proposal is the only hope for moving the economy out of stagnation.
President Obama’s plan addresses the root cause of the present stagnant economy: an excess of capital and a dearth of jobs needed to create the consumer demand that will provide opportunities for the profitable investment of capital. The plan converts excess capital directly into useful jobs, by confiscating (taxing) excess income that would otherwise create more unneeded capital.
Republican “job-creating” notions are just another round of voodoo economics. No one who has mastered simple arithmetic need be fooled again.
Surely you’re don’t believe that trashing consumer, worker, and environment protection regulations will entice investors to pour capital into enterprises that create products for which there is no consumer demand. Surely you don’t believe that tax cuts for the ultra-rich and Big Business can do anything but create more unneeded capital, which is then borrowed back by the government at current interest rates and added it to the national debt.
Let’s help President Obama push the economy out of stagnation and into job-creating, job-sustaining, profit-making enterprise, even if it means running roughshod over the obstructionists who destroyed our economy in 2008-2009!
Halftrack
September 19th, 2011
2:50 pm
Is Obummer paying any taxes on his speeches, writings, honorariums, investments,etc. outside his Presidential salary. What is the % ? Maybe he should be paying more taxes.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
2:54 pm
“So why do both Democrats and Republicans use CBO projections?”
Because they can both use an organization that reports to them, i.e. “Congressional” Budget Office, to provide the numbers they wnat us to see in the manner in which they want us to see them.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
2:57 pm
“Again, I’ll ask…where is your source analyzing and document how the stimulus package made the economy worse?”
John. Stop trying to state my position on something when I have not done so. If you’ll read what I post instead of trying to assign your preconceived notions to what I post, you’ll see that I have never stated that the stimulus has made the economy worse.
Now, if you wish to debate me on what I actually write, instead of simply making things up as you go along, please do one thing.
READ.
John
September 19th, 2011
2:57 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
For the 3rd time…where is your source analyzing and documenting how the stimulus package made the economy worse?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
3:00 pm
“Actually, President Obama’s job-creating proposal is the only hope for moving the economy out of stagnation. ”
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the mark of insanity, Ayn.
Alabama Patriot
September 19th, 2011
3:07 pm
John
September 19th, 2011
1:41 pm
Just how much money are these ‘job creators” currently sitting on and still not creating jobs? Apple alone has $76 billion cash on hands. How is giving them tax reductions so they can horde more cash going to create jobs?
That cash they’re sitting is after taxes. They can do with it what they want. You’re actually going to advocate taxing (again) already taxed income?
Ever heard of Lenin?
John
September 19th, 2011
3:07 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
“Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the mark of insanity, Ayn.”
Are you referring to Republicans that want to go back to the Bush policies that got us in the mess in the first place. While the economy is not where anyone would like it to be, it’s not as bad what it would have been without the stimulus. The stimulus had a positive effect…you can’t ignore the facts.
ByteMe
September 19th, 2011
3:12 pm
you can’t ignore the facts
Of course he can. Does it all the time.
Ayn is correct: if they want to pay lower taxes, then they need to increase their expenses by hiring more people. Otherwise, let’s take it from them at the point of a gun and use it to create construction-related jobs building infrastructure we desperately need in this country.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
3:12 pm
“Are you referring to Republicans that want to go back to the Bush policies that got us in the mess in the first place.”
No. And Bush’s policies didn’t get us into this mess.
And the stimulus was, as stated above, a temporary positive that will disappear in the next 12 months or less. Back to the starting gate because government has no clue about how to handle an economy.
ByteMe
September 19th, 2011
3:13 pm
And Bush’s policies didn’t get us into this mess.
Nope, but they sure made it worse than it could have been otherwise.
John
September 19th, 2011
3:14 pm
Alabama Patriot
Point out to me where I was calling for Apple or any other company to be taxed again. My question is how does reducing their taxes add more jobs when they already are sitting on large piles of money?
MarkV
September 19th, 2011
3:19 pm
Tiberius @2:33 pm: Wrong as usual.
The stimulus reversed the contraction of the economy, created many jobs. The success is not measured by what “it was touted “to do, but by what it did.
“Because the spending was temporary.”
You mean, the spending should have been permanent?
John
September 19th, 2011
3:21 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
“Back to the starting gate because government has no clue about how to handle an economy.”
And business does? How are corporations hording cash helping the economy?
Alabama Patriot
September 19th, 2011
3:22 pm
My question is how does reducing their taxes add more jobs when they already are sitting on large piles of money?
What they do with after-tax cash is their business. Creating jobs is a reflecion of tax and regualtory policy.
Why are you so worried about Apple’s tax burden? What is the obsession with the left about other people’s earnings?
Hillbilly D
September 19th, 2011
3:27 pm
This thing has been 40 years (or more) in the making and both sides helped us to get where we are. Both sides are now locked into the same basic positions they’ve had during this period. In my opinion, neither side knows the way out. This thing is going to last about 10 years, if we’re lucky, and the best thing most of us can do is hunker down and try to ride it out. The U.S. sold her soul for short term profits and cheap consumer goods and now it’s time to pay the fiddler.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
3:28 pm
When people start off their posts with the term “You mean” they are trying to deflect from the actual meaning of the original post because they don’t have a valid argument against it without the deflection.
saywhat?
September 19th, 2011
3:30 pm
The first stimulus, imperfect as it was due to Republican input, applied the brakes to a runaway economic freight train of disaster. But because the train that accelerated for 8 years in the wrong direction didn’t stop and turn on a dime in 18 months, the right wingers believe brakes don’t work, and plan to floor the accelerator again, rather than apply the brakes one more time. Brilliant…
John
September 19th, 2011
3:31 pm
Alabama Patriot
“What they do with after-tax cash is their business.”
Not exactly…what they do with it must be legal. Can’t grow the economy if the corporations and wealthy increase their wealth and just sit on it.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
3:32 pm
“And business does? How are corporations hording cash helping the economy?”
John, business is the ONLY entity that knows how an economy works. And they are holding cash because they don’t believe any more that other knowledgeable people do that this economy has actually turned the corner, therefore they are keeping profits in-house so that they can continue to be in business though the worse times to come.
Alabama Patriot
September 19th, 2011
3:34 pm
So sitting on your own earned wealth is now illegal to you? Have you bothered to say that our load so you can fully understand how absurd it is?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
3:36 pm
“The first stimulus, imperfect as it was due to Republican input, applied the brakes to a runaway economic freight train of disaster.”
Except we’re still going downhill, or speed has increased, and our brakes have worn down to nubs.
There are no more brakes to apply to this train, saywhat.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
3:39 pm
Well, it looks like liberals have a PLAN all worked out. First is the Robin Hood Plan. “Take from the rich” or “They made it & we take it” Plan.
If that doesn’t work, then there’s the “Fail once like a dunce. Do it again” Plan. Bound to work on shovel shifting and thoughtless temporary talent. In five years, the first signs of “progress” will appear. The country goes bankrupt so NOBODY has any money including the rich. Everybody is equally poor.
This will be called SUCCESS by Democrats.
Aquagirl
September 19th, 2011
3:41 pm
The U.S. sold her soul for short term profits and cheap consumer goods and now it’s time to pay the fiddler.
There’s really nothing to add to this. We’ve built our economy on these things and people are shocked…shocked! at the collapse. Duh.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
3:42 pm
Hillbilly D, great post!
I’ll add that government policies have artificially inflated prices and markets in order to protect people from losing value which has skewed the economy in the rest of the world’s favor. Housing prices and wages have got to be allowed to bottom out to restore a natural balance to our economy if we are ever going to hope to compete with the rest of the world again in manufacturing.
John
September 19th, 2011
3:42 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
That’s part of the problem. Until someone starts investing in our country and our workers, the economy will stay stagnant. Obama wants to invest in our infrastructure just as our government did after the depression and other down economic times. It has gotten us out of hard times before so it’s known to work but Republicans won’t have it…even though Republicans supported such measures in the past. Republicans care about 2 things…making sure Obama is a one term President even at the expense of the country and protecting the wealthy from tax increases since they all signed their souls to Grover Norquist.
John
September 19th, 2011
3:46 pm
Alabama Patriot
What? You said they can do whatever they want to with their money. I only said as long as it’s legal. If you believe they can do whatever they want with their money, let’s see what happens if they finance terror organizations or launder money, etc.
No wheres did I say sitting on it is illegal.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
3:47 pm
AquaGirl
You may be collapsed but I’m not. Sorry you sold your soul but I didn’t. This is still the greatest country ever. Too bad you haven’t noticed. Would CPR help your condition?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
3:59 pm
John, TEMPORARY spending at the cost of borrowing more money has NEVER been the solution to getting out of recession or depression (long-term), and with our debt and deficit right now at record levels it is an even worse prescription for failure.
And that phony “Republicans have supported it in the past” argument is about as grade-school as you can get (but typical for our Carnival Barker-in-Chief). Just because “A” Republican, or “some” Republicans supported something in the past doesn’t mean a majority of them do now, nor does supporting something in the past with different economic conditions that allowed for that support mean that the support could or should be there now.
John
September 19th, 2011
4:00 pm
While we’re talking about taxes…has everyone noticed while Republicans are protecting the wealthy from tax increases at the same time they are in support of increasing taxes on the working class? Obama has called on Congress to extend his payroll tax cut and cut it even further…a tax cut that applies to all working class and their employers but Republicans are not supporting it. Republicans support tax hikes as long as those tax hikes does not affect the wealthy.
TO THE USUAL LAIRS!
September 19th, 2011
4:01 pm
The obumer stimulus bill created what jobs?
Promise made: Unemployment would not rise above 8%. In reality… promise broken! Unemployment rose to 10% and above.
Fact: Since the PORKULUS 1.0 spending bill past there has been a net job loss!
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
4:02 pm
HillBilly,
I am glad to see you here but usually you are not quite so pessimistic. If everybody in the USA feels that way, nothing will work.
Reminds me of a ball game. If the players think they are losing and give up, then the game is lost.
I’m not blind nor deaf but let’s not bury the country with misery. We’ve been through a lot worse.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
4:10 pm
“While we’re talking about taxes…has everyone noticed while Republicans are protecting the wealthy from tax increases at the same time they are in support of increasing taxes on the working class?”
Of course, that statement isn’t even remotely true, and you know it, John.
Just because you don’t like one part of what finances the bill doesn’t mean you’re against other parts of the bill. Yours is a particularly weasely argument that is all-too-typical of the political discourse the left and right are guilty of these days.
If you want to make these types of statements feel free to do so, as long as you understand that there are some of us on here that are going to call you out on them. If you want a free shot at making inane statements such as that, the Bookman blog is ready when you are.
Jefferson
September 19th, 2011
4:11 pm
The GOP never wants to pay its bills as shown from 2000-2008. Now they want to lie to the citizens and back out on their promises to them. Nothing has changed with that crowd.
John
September 19th, 2011
4:13 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
Infrastructure spending has always been bipartisan…not just supported by “A” Republican.
Hillbilly D
September 19th, 2011
4:14 pm
Dusty
I’m pessimistic because I don’t see anybody, in a position of power, doing anything to make things better. And everybody you talk to wants things to get better but they’ll still run to WalMart and buy stuff made in China, because it’s cheaper. If it don’t last and you have to throw it away and get another, was it really cheaper? But that’s another discussion for another day.
Speaking of baseball, what’s wrong with your Braves? A couple weeks ago I thought they were home free unless they totally collapsed. They better get it together.
The Obozo Rule
September 19th, 2011
4:16 pm
How’s that shovel ready obazo infrastructure building project coming along over at Solyndra?
Appears things got so busy even the FBI had to lend a hand.
Just saying…
John
September 19th, 2011
4:24 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
My statement isn’t remotely true? What Republican has come out publicly in support of that portion of the bill even if they don’t support the rest of the bill? Their argument against this part of the bill is that this tax cut wouldn’t be permanent. Strange though they supported the Bush temporary tax cut as well as the temporary extensions of the Bush tax cuts.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
4:29 pm
“Infrastructure spending has always been bipartisan…not just supported by “A” Republican.”
Usually, but not always. And infrastructure isn’t the only spending in that bill. But this time, it’s the “How are we going to pay for it?” that is the sticking point.
John
September 19th, 2011
4:30 pm
By Republicans own definition, if they allow the Obama temporary payroll tax cuts to expire, then they have increased taxes.
MarkV
September 19th, 2011
4:34 pm
Tiberius @3:28 pm
“When people start off their posts with the term “You mean” they are trying to deflect from the actual meaning of the original post because they don’t have a valid argument against it without the deflection.”
A silly defense when caught at writing a silly.comment.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
4:34 pm
HillBilly,
The Braves have a few ups and downs but they are still the best. If they could keep everybody off the DL things would be a little better.
But a lot of rookies are fighting for ‘em and doing their best. Altogether, they will make a good show. But like you say, they better get it together SOON and I am all for that. GO Braves!!
Do let us discuss Walmart sometimes.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
4:36 pm
“My statement isn’t remotely true?”
What part of “not remotely true” do you NOT understand?
“What Republican has come out publicly in support of that portion of the bill even if they don’t support the rest of the bill?”
Conversely, which Republican has come out in “favor” of a tax hike on the working class as you so childishly put it? I believe you need a refresher course on how bills go through the legislative process.
you see, YOU have to prove YOUR statement is true, as you were the one that made it.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
4:38 pm
“A silly defense when caught at writing a silly.comment.”
Another deflection. I suggest sticking to the original post, as you are once again digging a deeper hole for yourself, MarkV.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
4:40 pm
“By Republicans own definition, if they allow the Obama temporary payroll tax cuts to expire, then they have increased taxes.’
Yet “Republicans” aren’t calling for the payroll tax cuts to expire, John, which is your contention.
John
September 19th, 2011
4:45 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
No problem…here’s part of the memo from the Republican House leadership to their caucus signaling they could possibly support it if it were permanent. However, they supported temporary extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
Memo On The President’s Jobs Proposal
TO: House Republicans
FR: Speaker Boehner, Leader Cantor, Whip McCarthy, and Chairman Hensarling
DT: September 16, 2011
RE: The President’s Jobs Proposal
Payroll Tax Relief: The President has proposed an extension and a significant expansion of the current payroll tax holiday. The President would more than double the amount of the holiday (up from $110 billion this year to $240 billion in 2012, including an expansion of this proposal to some of the employers’ share of these taxes), and would sunset the entire payroll tax holiday effective January 1, 2013. So while employees would see an additional temporary benefit from this proposal in 2012 (the President would modestly expand the current payroll holiday), they would experience a larger effective tax increase 12 months later when the payroll tax reverted back to its full level. There may be significant unforeseen downsides to large temporary tax cuts immediately followed by large tax increases. Compounding this negative effect is the scheduled increase in all individual tax rates, capital gain and dividend rates, and the elimination/reduction of various individual credits and deductions. In short, we are creating significant new uncertainty in an already uncertain economy. Moreover, the proposal increases general fund transfers to Social Security, something that needs to be carefully considered given the long-term challenges facing that program and the implications of those challenges for taxpayers. Finally, the President proposes to pay for this one-year expanded tax holiday by permanently limiting the ability of those earning more than $200,000 a year to take full advantage of their itemized deductions, including their charitable deductions. With over 40% of charitable deductions being claimed by those impacted by this proposed policy, the practical effect is a tax on and a reduction in charitable giving. This will negatively impact thousands of churches and non-profits. House Republicans are supportive of tax relief for working families and small businesses, but the temporary relief proposed by the President must not cause unforeseen harm to the economy 15 months from now and it shouldn’t be offset with permanent tax increases; and it shouldn’t come at the expense of the nation’s charities. That said, a commitment to honest and fruitful discussions between the White House and Congressional Leaders could lead to potential bipartisan agreement on a plan that avoids these downsides and provides tax relief for the middle class that encourages short- and long-term economic growth and job creation.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
4:47 pm
Tiberius..Your lightning rod.
Please keep on asking that BIG question: *How are we going to pay for it?”
Everytime I hear the President say that we are going to add thia and that program and it will cost so many trillions to be paid for somehow and sometime in the future, I am truly amazed.
Does the man have no sense of debt and due payment? He embodies the old cynical statement that wonders “Doesn’t he know that money doesn’t grow on trees?” It doesn’t grow on government projects either.
The president is considered an intellectual but he certainly is not even smart about “money”.
John
September 19th, 2011
4:48 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
“Yet “Republicans” aren’t calling for the payroll tax cuts to expire, John, which is your contention.”
If the Obama payroll tax cuts are allowed to expire due to the fact they would not be permanent, would you then agree the Republican raised taxes on the working class?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 19th, 2011
4:48 pm
To the degree the press neglected its function as watchdog and turned cupbearer to a styrofoam demigod, it is a partner in the flaws and failures of what is turning out to be one of the most miserable performances in the modern history of the American presidency.
Even the libs know this^^-
CHICAGO TRIBUNE: Why Obama should withdraw from 2012 race…
Yes, begone obozo.
JF McNamara
September 19th, 2011
4:52 pm
Kyle,
I know you only listen at Republican propaganda, but here it is a bluntly as I can say it.
We need money to pay down our debts. We have to raise taxes on everyone and freeze spending NOW. Unemployment for those with college degrees is less than 4%, and free trade allowed big business to outsource all of our mid tier jobs. Housing is in over supply, so unemployment will remain high. We won’t get significant growth until 2016 (at best). No party and no stimulus will effect what is going on. Take responsability for your actions, Stop passing the burden on, and Pay your bills.
We put it on the credit card, so we need to pay for it. Obama is trying to soft sell that, but Republicans won’t play along. Tell your party to grow up, acknowledge the math, and do their job. Continuing the propaganda of “taxing job creators” and “tax cuts increase revenue” is dumb and counter productive to our real needs. Raise taxes and balance the budget.
John
September 19th, 2011
4:53 pm
Dusty
Get up from under that rock…he is calling for increase in taxes for the wealthy and elimination of some deductions and subsidies to pay for it.
While saying he is not smart about money, did you notice at last week’s Republican tea party debate every one called for the repeal on Obamacare but not a singe one would support repealing Medicare Part D passed by Republicans and signed into law by Bush. Amazing when you consider that Medicare Part D will add more to the deficit than Obamacare since Obamacare is paid for and Medicare Part D is not.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
4:54 pm
“If the Obama payroll tax cuts are allowed to expire due to the fact they would not be permanent, would you then agree the Republican raised taxes on the working class?”
I don’t do “ifs”, John. As in, “If Space Monkeys invaded the Earth, would life as we know it change”? Since that isn’t likely to happen (nor is your scenario at this time), I don’t do “ifs”.
Nice try.
saywhat?
September 19th, 2011
4:56 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
4:40 pm
***Yet “Republicans” aren’t calling for the payroll tax cuts to expire, John, which is your contention.***
They’re not? Only took me less than 60 seconds on the google to find that some are.
saywhat?
September 19th, 2011
4:57 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/gop-may-ok-tax-increase-obama-hopes-block-124016578.html
forgot to post the link, but I’m sure with a little effort you can find plenty of your own.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
4:57 pm
Yeah, Dusty. I love his “Everything in the bill is paid for” comments.
Yeah, if it was to pass without any changes it would be. As if any bill that ever went through Congress was never changed.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
5:00 pm
I Report,
You really ever think that Obama would withdraw from the 2012 race? I’d say “Not a chance!”.
In fact, I hope he won’t. We might end up with Hillary in the race and I believe she is more popular than President Obama.
That might not be a problem. But a “blighted bird in hand might be better than a pesky one in the bush” if you get my drift.
Not So Casual Observer
September 19th, 2011
5:02 pm
Once again, Liberal thought is to blame for most all of the problems in the United States, whether economic or taxation.
Liberals are cemented to the idea that you can never take enough money from those who earn to give to those who yearn.
You Liberals need to remove yourself from the lay-about position and actually do something. Give all of your money to those siphoning the wealth of the country into the abyss of welfare.
In the meantime the actual “doers” will be producing and rebuilding the economy destroyed by years and years of a Congress controlled by Democrats.
John
September 19th, 2011
5:03 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
“I don’t do “ifs”, John.”
But you do. Just the last few post you did in defending Republicans. Didn’t you post…”Just because you don’t like one part of what finances the bill doesn’t mean you’re against other parts of the bill. ” implying they may/would support the bill IF it didn’t contain certain portions.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
5:05 pm
I suggest you read your provide link again, saywhat.
It talks about Republicans offering offsetting tax reductions to cover the payroll tax break, which is a zero net change in taxes.
Nice try.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
5:12 pm
“But you do.”
Once again, do NOT manufacture what you think I believe in, John. Keep it to what YOU believe, not what you think I believe.
Not So Casual Observer
September 19th, 2011
5:14 pm
“Tax increases for the wealthy” the envious Liberals cried. “Apple has too much money”, the Liberals chanted in unison.
“Here drink this Kool-Aid”, exhorted the Liberals Master, B.H. Obama.
So 20% of the earners pay 40% of the income tax and just over 50% of the earners pay 100% of the income tax – but that is not enough according to the Lib Loons posting here.
“Republicans are trying to raise taxes on the poor”, stated one Loon. No, but the only means to raise sufficient revenue to dent the defict that the Loons so love, is to expand the tax base. What, pray tell, is the problem with everyone paying SOMETHING? Eliminate the earned income credit and employ a minimum tax of 1-3% would be a nice start.
All the Great Society (a Democrat creation) has done is bury people in poverty and create a dependent class. The time has come to put the dependent class to work and have them “earn” their gubment checks with public service.
Also, dump the Internal Revenue Code for a consumption tax.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
5:15 pm
ah dear John,
I would have to live under a rock if I thought you could correct our economic woes by “stealing” money from the rich and raising taxes eventually on every person in this country. That seems to be the desire of you Democrats. Kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
As to Obamacare, the great medical bruhaha of the century. no one knows what this voluminous batch of regulations will eventually cost or what it will mean to healthcare.
Good healthcare is expensive. If you think Medicare is expensive, wait till Obamacare hits the fan. It will be limited healthcare spread thin at unimaginable costs piled on top of the huge debt we already have.
Wake up, son. Aint nothing free in this world and you won’t get it with ObamaCare.
John
September 19th, 2011
5:16 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
So if they vote against a bill because they did like another part, then they’re really for it?
joe
September 19th, 2011
5:16 pm
Obama is showing proper leadership. His jobs bill should be passed. NOW!
Obama 2012: Elect him. NOW!!
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
5:23 pm
“So if they vote against a bill because they did like another part, then they’re really for it?”
What part of “I don’t do “ifs”, do you NOT understand, John?
Look, John, you’re trying to get someone (who is much more aware of what you’re trying to do), to commit to someone elses beliefs or actions that have not taken place in an attempt to smear them or their beliefs.
I don’t play that game, no matter how much you’d like to. I do not paint with a broad brush. I deal in actions, facts, and when it is called for, analysis and opinion. That’s it.
The sooner you understand that and stop trying to wordsmith me into something I do not believe and you aren’t going to get, the better off you’re going to be.
Not So Casual Observer
September 19th, 2011
5:24 pm
I need to understand something…
Social Security and Medicare are essentially insolvent. So the Libs think reducing the amount of those taxes assessed and collected will help solve this insolvency problem how?
Would that be by creating jobs? Libs think temporarily reducing the P/R tax will create create permanent jobs? So why not, you intelligent Liberals, simply go to the end of the rainbow and bring some of the gold back to take up the slack?
The problem behind the “hording of cash”, as you Liberals see business doing, is the unknown future of government meddling in the economy. Regulations produced at a rate exceeding any previous administration, a constant cry of “increase taxes” and out of control government spending are simply three of the problems that are lumped into one by business – a government without leadership.
John
September 19th, 2011
5:24 pm
Dusty
That’s a new one…collecting taxes is now “stealing” money?
Medicare may be expensive but it’s much cheaper than private insurance. But then again, you’re probably one of those Republicans that believe we should let anyone without health insurance die. Oh wait, Ron Paul had the solution…the Churches are going to pay for it. Think I’ll send my health related bills to my Church and see if they’ll pay them off.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
5:26 pm
“Obama 2012: Elect him. NOW!!”
Uh, joe?
That is Constitutionally impossible. We cannot “Elect him now”, as we are mandated to elect a President every 4 years, and that doesn’t occur again until November of NEXT year.
How about a little less cheer leading and more substance, OK?
John
September 19th, 2011
5:28 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
“I deal in actions, facts, and when it is called for, analysis and opinion. That’s it.”
When I cited fact and analysis, you disregarded it. I asked several times for you to cite facts and analysis to back your claim, you ignored every request.
Not So Casual Observer
September 19th, 2011
5:30 pm
Dusty,
One thing ObamaCare does is raise the cost of Medicare to retirees from $96 in 2010 to $246 in 2013 – a 150% increase with the last $100 scheduled after the 2012 election. What a devious bum this Obama is!
That is just one of many hidden costs to the consumers in the ObamaCare Bill. If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until the full effects of this abomination of a “reform” bill are felt.
Does anyone think the “Jobs Proposal” by B.H. Obama will be any different?
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
5:30 pm
joe,
At least you are honest. But…proper leadership? Obama? Whooeee! I think you will find some disagreement with your opinion, to say the least.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 19th, 2011
5:30 pm
Dusty- obozo just lavished upon al Qeada in Libya a fat stockpile of anti aircraft missiles which I’m sure that the ragheads are now scheming ways to get them across the Mexican border so they can shoot down a couple of juicy American airplanes full of people, have you heard any concerns over this coming from the White House? You think they’ll clamp down on the border?
We have met the enemy and he is…..obozo.
Not So Casual Observer
September 19th, 2011
5:33 pm
joe @ 5:16,
Please paint a scarlet “M” on your forehead – for misled, misinformed or most any negative m-word you can conceive. We need to be able to identify you!
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
5:36 pm
“I asked several times for you to cite facts and analysis to back your claim, you ignored every request.”
No, you did not. You claimed that I wrote something I did not, therefore I had no reason to back up YOUR erroneous claim about me.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 19th, 2011
5:36 pm
Aahhh, another election approaches, and with it, the dummycrats will start talking about God and cutting taxes again, after such a long, long absence from speaking of such subjects.
So be sure that you keep your barf bag nearby, just sayin…
Phineas
September 19th, 2011
5:40 pm
The myth of trickle down economics will never die with some people.
John
September 19th, 2011
5:40 pm
Not So Casual Observer
“Social Security and Medicare are essentially insolvent. ”
They really aren’t. Part of the problem is that their funds have been raided by both Democrats and Republicans that their funds now contains IOUs. Both can be fixed…problem is Democrats would like to fix them…Republicans want to eliminate them.
“Would that be by creating jobs? Libs think temporarily reducing the P/R tax will create create permanent jobs? ”
By reducing payroll taxes on one employee, you’re putting more money into his pocket which he/she will spend adding to the economy. Same thing holds true for the employer, which can create temporary jobs, putting money into those employees hands. It’s called creating demand which in turn creates the need for more supply…adding jobs and growing the economy.
But how is reducing taxes on the wealthy going to create the demand needed to lead to increase of supply which job creation is needed to fulfill that demand?
“The problem behind the “hording of cash”, as you Liberals see business doing, is the unknown future of government meddling in the economy. Regulations produced at a rate exceeding any previous administration, a constant cry of “increase taxes” and out of control government spending are simply three of the problems that are lumped into one by business – a government without leadership.”
Tax policy and regulations constantly change…this is not a new concept. What administration in modern times have not had any changes in tax policy or regulations?
MarkV
September 19th, 2011
5:41 pm
Not So Casual Observer @5:24 pm: “I need to understand something…Social Security and Medicare are essentially insolvent.”
You are so right about your need to understand. Neither SS nor Medicare are insolvent, essentially or not.
Not So Casual Observer
September 19th, 2011
5:42 pm
The myth of “Democratic Leadership” will never die with Lib Loons.
ragnar danneskjold
September 19th, 2011
5:42 pm
High unemployment is one of the “costs” of ObamaCare, and we will continue to pay that cost. Employers face an unknown “per employee” cost for ObamaCare. As most employers are slightly smarter than government hacks they anticipate the plannable portion of the future In this case, they lay off the marginal workers and choose not to hire employees with questionable additional utility to the business. So long as our leftist friends are willing to compel all of us to accept the costs of ObamaCare, unemployment will not change.
joe
September 19th, 2011
5:45 pm
Did I say elect Obama now? Dang. My total bad. I meant re-elect him NOW! and Pass his Jobs Bill. NOW!!
We can do both if we just quit acting bipartisan. But we have to act quickly while the iron is still hot. I can’t believe what a great president we have. The world celebrates us again!
John
September 19th, 2011
5:45 pm
Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate!
“No, you did not. You claimed that I wrote something I did not, therefore I had no reason to back up YOUR erroneous claim about me.”
Go back and reread the post. Originally, you claimed the stimulus package did not work. I posted from CBO August 2011 report on the positive effect it had on the economy. You blew off the CBO report but when I asked (at least 3 times) for you to cite analysis showing the stimulus package had a negative effect on the economy, you ignored my request each time.
ragnar danneskjold
September 19th, 2011
5:47 pm
Funny essay on the administration’s financial integrity this afternoon. From the WSJ:
The Solyndra solar subsidy flare-up is getting all the media attention, but arguably as great a White House scandal concerns one of ObamaCare’s multiple new entitlements. A trove of internal emails uncovered by congressional investigators shows that administration officials knew that a new program for long-term care really was the fiscal disaster that critics claimed at the time.
Known by the acronym Class, the government-backstopped insurance for nursing homes, home health aides and the like was among the worst accounting gimmicks used to make it seem as if national health care would reduce the deficit. The voluntary Class program will collect premiums upfront next year but won’t pay out benefits for another five years. The $70 billion accumulated during that lead time will finance other parts of ObamaCare, and then the Class program goes broke somewhere around 2020 and starts to drain taxpayers in part because the same money can’t be spent twice.
The emails, obtained by a joint Republican panel led by Sen. John Thune and House Energy and Commerce Chairman Fred Upton, reveal that the administration knew the program was designed to fail and went ahead anyway. A Health and Human Services deputy secretary repeatedly warned his superiors and Democratic staff on the Hill that the Class program “seems like a recipe for disaster to me.” Later, he even suggested that Democrats include a “failsafe” for public support.
Chief Medicare actuary Richard Foster, who has been a hero of fiscal honesty during the health-care debate, also warned that “adverse selection” could be “a terminal problem for this proposal” as early as May 2009, nearly a year before the bill passed. Because of the way Class is structured, healthy people are unlikely to buy in and premiums for the remaining sick will spike, leading to a classic insurance “death spiral.”
“Thirty-six years of actuarial experience,” Mr. Foster wrote to the Medicare legislative affairs office, “lead me to believe that this program would collapse in short order and require significant federal subsidies to continue.” He later wrote that “I assume you’ve conveyed these concerns to the staff but, if not, let me know and we can express these concerns in a memo.”
A Senate committee staffer “decided she does not think she needs additional work on the actuarial side,” an HHS email later reported back. Of course not.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
5:48 pm
““Social Security and Medicare are essentially insolvent. ”
They really aren’t.”
Actually, Social Security is closest to being insolvent right now, with less than 2 workers per retiree contributing to SS, and it’s expected to be less than 1 worker per retiree by 2015. That means deficit spending for SS in less than 4 years. Medicare is in better shape, but escalating costs for health care (which Obamacare does NOT address) will put Medicare in deficit spending later, but the deficit spending will be accelerated compared to SS.
“Part of the problem is that their funds have been raided by both Democrats and Republicans that their funds now contains IOUs.”
And with NO REAL PLAN to pay down the debt and deficit, those IOUs are as worthless as a degree from Harvard in determining if he’ll be a good President.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
5:48 pm
John,
Now you have flipped your lid. I have never met nor heard of a Republican that wanted someone without healthcare to die.
The fact is we already have many means to cover healthcare for the indigent. Ever heard of Grady hospital or hospitals like Grady? Or their outpatient clinics? Or county clinics? State hospitals? Ever heard that no emergency room can turn away ANY sick person? Do you know that almost every hospital has a certain percentage of their budget planned to care for those that cannot pay their bills? When’s the last time you saw someone lying dead on the street from illness? Ever heard of hospitals run by donations? (St.Judes, for one. Shrine’s Hospitals for burn cases?)You are so uninformed. No wonder you think the government should be Santa Claus. It is pitiful!!
joe
September 19th, 2011
5:50 pm
There’s only one negative M word in the zeitgeistical lexiconical vocabulary of the Wikipedia World of Wonder. That word has ruled our planet for 89 of the last 96 centuries, man. that word is moron. It starts with an M. then it goes on to say, “or” and then “on”. It has everything! It describes most of the commenters on this blog to a T.
Obama is the perfect target for morons. His leadership has astonished them and shocked them all into a whole nubba level of stupor that not even the GOP has seen before. It’s downright stuporlicious, how stupified the conservatives have stepped up into being.
Phineas
September 19th, 2011
5:53 pm
Dusty: Who pays for all the care at hospitals like Grady? For all the people who show up at Grady needing care who have no health insurance, how does the bill get paid?
joe
September 19th, 2011
5:54 pm
Anyone notice how the discussion here always devolves into morons claiming that they’ve been misquoted or misunderstood or whatever. Here is the regulars’ usual line of commenting: “Duh, I din’t say dat. You said I said dat, duh. I din’t. What I said was Duh. You then said that I said Duh, Duh. But I din’t say duh, duh, I said duh.”
What I don’t git is why the conservatives here always start every single comment with the word, duh. Anyone got a theory other than the obvious one: that they’re all morons?
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
5:55 pm
John, for the final time. My original post stated the stimulus didn’t work. Didn’t work does NOT equal “made the economy worse”. Now, here is your thrice requested ask of me:
“For the 3rd time…where is your source analyzing and documenting how the stimulus package made the economy worse?”
Again, you are not going to catch me in an inconsistency or be allowed to manufacture a belief I do not ascribe to.
I suggest you quit while you’re behind.
Not So Casual Observer
September 19th, 2011
5:58 pm
MarkV @ 5:41,
So your saying so will make that sovency claim accurate? I think not.
You do not have to be an actuary to understand the future of Social Security and Medicare as now constituted.
Since the Congressional Democrats placed the taxes collected to pay for these programs into the general fund of the government and then issued “iou’s” for the debt, there has been nothing there to accrue any interest as would an actual retirement account. Bernie Madoff is in jail for such a scam.
The number of workers contibuting is declining and the number of beneficiaries is increasing and in your mind this is a plan on solid financial footing? The largest single segment of society is now reaching the age of eligibility for Medicare and the number of new enrollments will increase by ever larger numbers for the next decade, at least.
Your leader, B.H. Obama, has created a plan to save Medicare, but on the backs of the very people Medicare is designed to serve – the retirees. How, you ask? By increasing the monthly cost by 150+% in the next two years.
There has not been a Social Security COL increase in the past few years but in that time Congress has voted themselves, and by law many other federal employees, at least one raise. To pay for the additional cost to them of Medicare? No, they have their own, enhanced, medical coverage.
Most retirees paid into Social Security and Medicare for 40-50 years and how are they rewarded? By making their SS benefits taxable and by huge increases in the cost of Medicare. Now this taxation is not on the increase in value of their retirment account but on the beneifts produced by previously taxed income. Scam, Scam, Scam!
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
5:59 pm
“Anyone notice how the discussion here always devolves into morons claiming that they’ve been misquoted or misunderstood or whatever.”
That’s because people like you, joe, can’t defend your positions without resorting to creating new ones for people like me.
John
September 19th, 2011
6:00 pm
Dusty
“Now you have flipped your lid. I have never met nor heard of a Republican that wanted someone without healthcare to die.”
Guess you didn’t watch the Tea Party Republican debate.
“he fact is we already have many means to cover healthcare for the indigent. Ever heard of Grady hospital or hospitals like Grady? Or their outpatient clinics? Or county clinics? State hospitals? Ever heard that no emergency room can turn away ANY sick person? ”
And who pays for that? Taxpayers and those who have health insurance. Certainly you don’t think these healthcare professionals and hospitals are operating free.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
6:00 pm
Ragnar,
So good to have you here.
That was a great and clear definement of the finances of ObamaCare. The facts are truly amazing if not surprising. The subterfuge is truly discouraging.
Is there no justice for those who prey upon their fellow citizens with every twist and turn no matter what the cost will be to the country? Nothing???
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
6:00 pm
Off to dinner. Maybe back later on.
John
September 19th, 2011
6:02 pm
“Tiberius – Your lightning rod of hate! ”
It did work…it had a positive effect on the economy. Just because we are not where we’d like to be doesn’t mean it didn’t work.
Aquagirl
September 19th, 2011
6:03 pm
I have never met nor heard of a Republican that wanted someone without healthcare to die.
I see someone missed the recent Republican debate. No wonder you live on the sunny side of life, Dusty. Ignorance is bliss.
John
September 19th, 2011
6:04 pm
Not So Casual Observer
“Since the Congressional Democrats placed the taxes collected to pay for these programs into the general fund of the government and then issued “iou’s” for the debt, there has been nothing there to accrue any interest as would an actual retirement account. Bernie Madoff is in jail for such a scam.”
The trust funds have been raided by both Democrats and Republicans. It’s been going on for years.
Not So Casual Observer
September 19th, 2011
6:07 pm
John,
Since the 1930’s Demcorats have essentially dominated Congress and, therefore, the pilaging of the Social Security “Trust Fund”. I believe in each instance of change in the benefits, theft of the “trust fund” or increase in the SS wage base there was either A Democrat in the White House, Democrat control of the Congress, or both.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
September 19th, 2011
6:07 pm
The Idiot Messiah is all excited about raising taxes on the productive. Jobs and/or renovating school buildings are just an afterthought. It’s all about keeping a socialist boot on the neck of the folks paying the bills.
Not So Casual Observer
September 19th, 2011
6:09 pm
Ahhh, Dusty lives on the sunny side of the street and aquagirl has always been from the dark side.
Aquagirl
September 19th, 2011
6:10 pm
aquagirl has always been from the dark side.
I couldn’t resist the cookies.
MarkV
September 19th, 2011
6:10 pm
Not So Casual Observer @5:58 pm “Since the Congressional Democrats placed the taxes collected to pay for these programs into the general fund of the government and then issued “iou’s” for the debt, there has been nothing there to accrue any interest as would an actual retirement account. Bernie Madoff is in jail for such a scam.”
You should at least try to get your facts straight. You are just repeating one of the false myths about SS. Social Security “trust fund” is invested in special government bonds. They do accrue interest. These bonds are special, but essentially they are part of the national debt just like any other part. Just like the US have to pay both the principal and the interest to those (such as China) investing in treasury bills, it has to, by law, repay these bonds and the interest. The comparison with Bernie Madoff is completely irresponsible.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
6:14 pm
John,
I certainly do think some of the cost of our indigent healthcare is paid by taxpayers and the health insurance of others. That is why I think the current system is active and no need to drop the country deeper and deeper into debt.
Total direction of healthcare by the government has never been considered first class. It usually turns into a cost so high for poor service that it goes under consideration over and over.(See UK and Massachusetts).
Let us improve what we already have and keep our independence with it. I do not wish the government to run my life or healthcare. I just want it to keep us independent and safe. That is all that our constitution has written that we should expect from government.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
September 19th, 2011
6:14 pm
Well, here we are on the next Monday after that next Monday and we’ve just learned from the No. 2 Democrat in the Senate, Dick Durbin, that actually it seems that body won’t really be seriously getting into the legislation for a while yet. The Senate has some other more important business to handle. And then there’s this month’s congressional vacation, which in Washington is called “a recess,” like elementary school.
Here’s the revealing exchange with a persistent host Candy Crowley on CNN’s “State of the Union:”
CROWLEY: When is the bill going to get on the floor?
DURBIN: The bill is on the calendar. Majority leader Reid moved it to the calendar. It is ready and poised. There are a couple other items we may get into this week not on the bill and some related issues that may create jobs. But we’re going to move forward on the president’s bill. There will be a healthy debate. I hope the Republicans will come to…
CROWLEY: After the recess, so next month? Or when will it actually begin to act on?
DURBIN: I think that’s more realistic it would be next month.
So, as of right now, “right now” uttered on Sept. 8 really means sometime at least one month later.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/09/obama-jobs-speech-right-now-dick-durbin.html
————————–
Your Idiot Messiah is a liar and a do-nothing. Fail.
John
September 19th, 2011
6:14 pm
“Not So Casual Observer”
“Since the 1930’s Demcorats have essentially dominated Congress and, therefore, the pilaging of the Social Security “Trust Fund”.”
Democrats have not dominated Congress and the White House every year since the 30’s. Using your reasoning, would that mean everything that happened since the 1930s is Democrats’ responsibility?
Eric
September 19th, 2011
6:20 pm
Businesses are not hiring (lack of social obligation for the profits they make off others); they are sitting on cash. So it’s appropriate to assess more taxes.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
6:21 pm
Dear AquaGirl,
There are other ways to bliss besides ignorance. Perhaps not for you. But hang in there. The sunny side is kinda nice!! Try it.
Now for a bite to eat. It’s about that time.
Edward
September 19th, 2011
6:22 pm
Where were all the “job creators” the last 10 years when all the jobs were sent overseas? All these “job creators” have enjoyed the lowest tax rates in history for nearly a decade. WHERE ARE THE JOBS? Blaming “Obamacare”? Really? It hasn’t even gone into effect, so your excuses there are as imaginary as your IQ. WHERE ARE THE JOBS? Why aren’t the “job creators” CREATING JOBS? WHERE ARE THE JOBS?
Edward
September 19th, 2011
6:23 pm
Kyle never met a wealthy derriere he didn’t want to kiss, repeatedly and often.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
September 19th, 2011
6:23 pm
If you have a problem with business, don’t do business with them. What they do with their cash is none of your business.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
September 19th, 2011
6:26 pm
Edward: Where were all the “job creators” the last 10 years
—————————-
Well, during the first seven of your “last 10 years” they were busy keeping unemployment between 4-6%.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
6:34 pm
Edward,@ 6:23
Go play with your IPod. You don’t know how to play with people. Shoo!
Aquagirl
September 19th, 2011
6:38 pm
The sunny side is kinda nice!! Try it.
I’m not a Braves fan, so I have no need for delusional optimism, lol.
joe
September 19th, 2011
6:46 pm
HEY! You forgot to phrase the comment in the form of a Duh remark. I guess that kinda makes you a moron. Sorry, and there’s no time to explain why, but it does.
Don't Tread
September 19th, 2011
7:32 pm
One wonders whether Obama has produced a ‘jobs bill’ so much as a “tax increase justification bill.”
Personally, I’ve quit wondering whether anything from Obama/Pelosi/Reid and co. is anything but a tax increase justification bill.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
7:39 pm
““Since the 1930’s Demcorats have essentially dominated Congress and, therefore, the pilaging of the Social Security “Trust Fund”.”
Democrats have not dominated Congress and the White House every year since the 30’s.”
You know, John, I’ve come to the conclusion that you either cannot read every well, or you are just here to argue for the sake of argument, and not the facts. As shown above, the poster did NOT say that “Democrats have dominated the Congress and White House EVERY year. You added the “every year” in there because you couldn’t argue the point as originally made, or because you just refuse to actually read what some people post.
“Using your reasoning, would that mean everything that happened since the 1930s is Democrats’ responsibility?”
Well, actually, the major entitlement programs and fiscal policies that have led to our current situation ARE the result of Democrat majorities that enacted them, and Republican majorities that chose not to get rid of them or modify them to make them work, so yeah, you really can pin just about all our ills on Democrats.
joe
September 19th, 2011
7:43 pm
My point again. “I did not say that. You said that I said that.”
total morons over and over again with the same idiotic nonsense.
Trolls Interrupted Much?
morons.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
7:45 pm
“Businesses are not hiring (lack of social obligation for the profits they make off others); they are sitting on cash. So it’s appropriate to assess more taxes.”
Possibly the dumbest post of the day.
Lack of social obligation? Please tell me you really don’t mean that, Eric.
Businesses have ZERO obligations to anyone, social or otherwise, except to make a profit and provide a reasonable salary for the work provided.
And they’re holding back profits because they know, as others do, that this recession isn’t over, it’s going to last a longer time than many originally thought, and they’ll need that cash in hand to keep the business OPEN for the next few years.
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
7:45 pm
joe, the Children’s Table is over at the Bookman blog. You’d fit right in there.
RAMZAD
September 19th, 2011
7:56 pm
“Job Creators” is Republican Tea Party code for “Our Friends.”
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
8:01 pm
“Job Creators” is Republican Tea Party code word for “People who actually create jobs”.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
September 19th, 2011
8:02 pm
True enough–Republicans are friendly with job creators. Perhaps if your Idiot Messiah wasn’t so busy harassing job creators, they could create some.
RAMZAD
September 19th, 2011
8:09 pm
If harassing “Job Creators” mean stopping them from polluting the air and poisoning the food and doping the ground water and running a chemistry lab through the streams then I say pound these “Job Creators into extinction.
RAMZAD
September 19th, 2011
8:17 pm
@Little Barry:
I bet you are one of the little frustrated and unemployed Tea Party groupies who stays here and agitate all day long. You get to hate Obama. You get to express your frustration. You get to meet up with desperate little people like yourself, and you get to hear what the latest Republican Tea Party line is.
I am sure you would not have it any other way. I wonder why the “Job Creators” don’t know you exist?
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
September 19th, 2011
8:22 pm
And you, RAMZAD, are likely one of those chumps who believes the meek shall inherit the earth and that karma’s a bitch.
Jefferson
September 19th, 2011
8:30 pm
72 % agree with the president. Why is that ?
Ronnie Raygun
September 19th, 2011
8:31 pm
So those rich guys that have been getting tax cuts out the wazoo and haven’t created a job in over a decade are “Job Creators”? BWAHAHAHA That’s a good one Kyle, it will absolutely kill at the Chuckle Hut.
ObamaNO
September 19th, 2011
8:32 pm
Obama Must Go ASAP!!
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
8:46 pm
“If harassing “Job Creators” mean stopping them from polluting the air and poisoning the food and doping the ground water and running a chemistry lab through the streams then I say pound these “Job Creators into extinction.’
“Cause as we know, job creators really want people mad at them for doing things like that. . .
Tiberius - Your lightning rod of hate!
September 19th, 2011
8:47 pm
“72 % agree with the president.”
On what? Not this plan, that’s for sure.
John Lewis
September 19th, 2011
8:49 pm
OMG….Obama must go!!!!!! His plan is to destroy the American economy and let the federal government keep growing so that he will become the Grand Czar!!
Robert Littel
September 19th, 2011
8:54 pm
The president makes a solid threat to attack the sweet deal that the corporate Right and the ultra-rich, at the very top, have engineered for themselves, and the Right-wing propaganda machine comes out screaming (in unison) that the administration is engaging in “class warfare”. The truth is that out and out class warfare has been ongoing for several decades, without the general public even realizing it. While the public watched their soaps, NASCAR, and the other distractions that have become central focus in the lives of the apolitical citizenry, while they have been distracted by every new shiny object corporate America can shove into their hands (curiously all manufactured in China), the corporate Right has consolidated political power (by buying up all options) and creating a myth driven rationale (disseminated through outlets like FOX [faux] News and sold by hate radio blowhards, like Limbaugh and Beck) and codified in brown-shirt organizations like the Tea Party. Their plan, and it is in full implementation, marshaling ignorance, fear and blind stupid patriotic jingoism , is to use The Constitution and everything it is supposed to stand for, to bring our experiment in representative democracy to an end. The destruction, castration, or marginalizing, of the real press, the transfer of wealth upward (erasing the middle-class, the ending of fair wages (union busting), and reducing the function of government, by stripping it of functions that serve individuals, to only providing a military, to be used both as a tool to control other nations resources, and as a force to keep the rest of us in line with their desires (using the police power they will control)in a country where “consumer rights” supplant citizens rights, IS ALREADY HAPPENING!
The government is the only tool the people (the “WE THE PEOPLE” of constitutional fame) have, has been under assault by the forces of obscene wealth (which they mean to keep and get more of), making it an already corrupted entity, that we must seize back. The ignorant must be taught, the lazy kicked in the butt, and the pigs doing this (the Koch Brothers, et al, the McConnells, the Boehners) to us, must be exposed for what they are, thrown out of office, and/or prosecuted for their attempted overthrow of The Constitution. If we do not wake up and do this, the Corporate States of America will become the only reality and our noble experiment in freedom will be over. It is time to throw the corporate owned Republicans out of office and then purge the Democrats that have also prostituted themselves to corporate largess. Once that has occurred, it is time to break the back of large corporations, that have grown so large that they no longer believe in the American dream, proven by how willing they are to ship your jobs overseas and by their willingness to let the country fail, all to consolidate their power and wealth. It is now or never, and the corporate Right realizes this and is acting on it while they can get away with it. All the mechanisms for this plutocratic coup de etat are in place, and they must move before they are found out by the mass of society. Because they mean to win, and because they will go to any ends to achieve it (even if it means throwing us into deep economic and societal collapse), we must stop them now, or we will never get the chance again.
Dusty
September 19th, 2011
9:14 pm
Robert Litell,
My goodness, Bobbie, I believe you don’t like Republicans. Or maybe you ate something for dinner that disagreed with you. Anyway, I hope it gets better. If not, try a little PeptoBismol. Might help.
buck@gon
September 19th, 2011
9:20 pm
MarkV,
“What is lost in these arguments about lowering taxes for “job creators” and getting rid of regulations is that none of those things would have a measurable effect in the short run.”
Are your reading glasses getting foggy? Kyle proved that jobs for schoos aren’t really for the “short run”, even next summer is now too early for the federal maze to be run before shovels can start digging. What does government do in the “short run”? Well, how’s the previous 3 years of Obama showing us what the “short-run” can do? with Democrat total control? and now that Republicans run the House? These are the answers you need to contemplate before you go accusing conservatives of neglect.
You want job creation in the SHORT RUN, really? OK, put holds on limits, drilling, regulations, needling bureaucrats, mindless paperwork, Sarbanes Oxley, Dodd Frank, Obamacare, fire witless government bureaucrats. In short, GET OUT OF THE WAY.
If government would reduce itself, I’d be promoted TOMORROW, and I’d be a manager in charge of hiring at least a dozen new employees (some of whom are engineers) and in five years I might start my own business because I have a plan on the table that WILL WORK to save money, given a better present income and to be prepared for it. I’d hire people too.
buck@gon
September 19th, 2011
9:23 pm
Kyle,
Raising taxes is like government amnesty for illegals. As amnesty happens in one fell-swoop, the tax codes are implemented, period. We, who are responsible with money and who care about such things must then wait with baited breath that the “savings” actually “materialize”, which is the lingo in Washington.
The pretension that liberals have (that Jay Bookman and Mike Luckovich seem to have) that Republicans have gotten and will get their way on spending is entirely false, and is a good reason Tea Partyers remain so vigilant.
Keep up the good work.
BW
September 19th, 2011
9:25 pm
Kyle…what is the choice at this point politically? Complete capitulation? He has to draw a distinction…election be damned. Revenue is off the table for Republicans so what are Dems going to run on? Spending cuts to entitlements?…may as well stay home next November.
buck@gon
September 19th, 2011
9:27 pm
Jefferson,
“72 % agree with the president. Why is that ?”
Because it was a crappy push poll designed to help the President. Only Obama’s bitter, hard-core leftist base believes the answer to our current recession is to get more money into the hands of Obama. I think that phrase ought to make people laugh, actually.
Care to discuss Obama’s approval ratings as well as Congress’ bipartisan aloof treatment of little Barry’s bill?
rug rat
September 19th, 2011
9:27 pm
Robert Little! AMEN
buck@gon
September 19th, 2011
9:34 pm
BW,
YES, please do stay home next November. Obama has to draw a distinction? Yes, again. He can’t have his 20% wingnut base thinking he’s a tool of “the rich.”
If a cut in government is so unfathomable to you, then I’m sorry you see it as the first and most important priority for citizens of this country. Actually, government was designed to provide for the common defense, promote general welfare and secure liberty. 3 things Obama has failed utterly to even talk about, much less promote successfully. Government is NOT the people, but it was designed to be FOR them.
The Dems voted to keep the Bush tax rates all by themselves without rasing taxes. THEY obviously had no concerns about “revenue.”
Why does Obama suddenly care about what our children are going to have to pay?
Perhaps you’re right. Maybe he has already capitulated. Though the rest of us know enough not to take what he says seriously, he still is a threat to this country, its, liberty, its people and its welfare.
buck@gon
September 19th, 2011
9:39 pm
Littel mind,
“Their plan, and it is in full implementation, marshaling ignorance, fear and blind stupid patriotic jingoism , is to use The Constitution and everything it is supposed to stand for, to bring our experiment in representative democracy to an end. The destruction, castration, or marginalizing, of the real press, the transfer of wealth upward (erasing the middle-class, the ending of fair wages (union busting), and reducing the function of government, by stripping it of functions that serve individuals, to only providing a military, to be used both as a tool to control other nations resources, and as a force to keep the rest of us in line with their desires (using the police power they will control)in a country where “consumer rights” supplant citizens rights, IS ALREADY HAPPENING!”
LoL. We need you Littel. We need you like a plumber needs the stench of crap to remain employed.
Wow Littel, and me, I just thought the government was spending too much money. Funny how you make it all so clear as mud!
And we all have Barry Obama to thank for making the Tea Party politically revolutionary and for allowing us to do all of this by making only one real political point, that out of control government spending is ruining our country, our government and its programs.
buck@gon
September 19th, 2011
9:42 pm
Littel mind,
“The ignorant must be taught, the lazy kicked in the butt, and the pigs doing this (the Koch Brothers, et al, the McConnells, the Boehners) to us, must be exposed for what they are, thrown out of office, and/or prosecuted for their attempted overthrow of The Constitution.”
Marxists like you “care” about the constitution about as much as Barry “cares” about the deficit.
If “lazy” means not voting as you would suggest, then we need a new newspeak, George Orwell style.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
September 19th, 2011
10:09 pm
Robert Littel: While the public watched their soaps, NASCAR, and the other distractions that have become central focus in the lives of the apolitical citizenry, the share of income taxes paid by the evil rich has steadily increased and half of all Americans have had their share of income tax reduced to zero.
———————–
Fixed.
dixiedemons
September 19th, 2011
10:19 pm
Kyle , you are doing a decent job of stirring the pot of division for fun and profit. Step it up a notch or two and you may well be rewarded with a high paying job with Fox news. Your blog is always entertaining. keep up the good work !!!
Butch Cassidy
September 19th, 2011
10:38 pm
Again, my advice to Obama would be to give in to the Republicans. Let them take responsibiltiy. The sooner they do that, the sooner they can F@#$ it up, and people might actually learn that there is no savior in EITHER party. If nothing else, it would shut up the bleeting from the party faithful for a while.
MarkV
September 19th, 2011
11:01 pm
buck@gon @9:20 pm: “Kyle proved that jobs for schoos aren’t really for the “short run”, …”
WOW! Kyle PROVED something? That must be the first.
“Well, how’s the previous 3 years of Obama showing us what the “short-run” can do?”
How about reversing the contraction of the economy, and creating many jobs?
“OK, put holds on limits, drilling, regulations, needling bureaucrats, mindless paperwork,”
Yeh, that sure will have an effect in the SHORT RUN! Whom are you kidding?
buck@gon @9:27 pm: “Because it was a crappy push poll designed to help the President.”
Interesting, how polls you do not like immediately become “crappy.”
ODD OWL
September 19th, 2011
11:22 pm
Share the wealth, TAX THE RICH, pay down the debt. Congress must increase Fed. Income taxes on wage earners making more then $250,.000 a year in a graduating manner, with a top rate of 50%. Tax capital gain profits as regular income. (50%) Increase the inheritance tax to 40%. Elininate all corporate tax loop holes… End oil and gas subsidies. Enact a corporate alternative minimum tax for Companies that don’t pay any taxes.
STUPID POOR REDNECKS DEFENDING AGAINST THE RICH TAXHIKE
September 20th, 2011
12:20 am
DICK CHENEY SAYS YOU ARE NOT A REAL REPUBLICAN IF YOU DONT MAKE OVER $250,000 A YEAR!
YOU HICKS ARE DEFENDING THE TAXHIKE FOR THE RICH,WHEN THEY NEVER DEFEND YOU POOR HICKS IN YOUR TRAILOR PARKS!
HOW DID THOSE TAXCUTS FOR THE RICH FOR EIGHT YEARS UNDER BUSH WORKOUT?
STUPID POOR REDNECKS DEFENDING AGAINST THE RICH TAXHIKE
September 20th, 2011
12:23 am
THANK GOD BUSH GOT OVER ON YOU REDNECKS FOR 8YEARS!
I THOUGHT THAT THOSE BUSH TAXCUTS WERE SUPPOSE TO CREATE JOBS? NOT
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
September 20th, 2011
5:58 am
HOW DID THOSE TAXCUTS FOR THE RICH FOR EIGHT YEARS UNDER BUSH WORKOUT?
—————————–
Great, thanks for asking. Unemployment was 4-6% and the deficit was a quarter of the Idiot Messiah’s.
Ronnie Raygun
September 20th, 2011
6:51 am
Robert Littel, good accurate post. Too bad it’s like casting pearls before the GOP swine. It just confuses them. Like math.
Uncle Billy
September 20th, 2011
7:04 am
As to the effects of the Bush tax cuts look here; http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/are-the-bush-tax-cuts-the-root-of-our-fiscal-problem/
Revenues were lower in 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 than they were in 2000. As a percentage of GDP they were lower in every year of Bush’s presidency. And, of course, the collapse came at the end when job losses were running at more than 500,000 per month. For all of 2008 jobs losses were 2.6 million.
Pizzaman
September 20th, 2011
7:07 am
Keep drinking the Kool Aide Kyle. Just how many jobs have been created by the Bush Jr./Obama tax cuts (yes Obama has cut taxes!)? Answer: since Bush/Obama cut taxes the country has lost 15 million jobs. All those “job creators” have taken the jobs over seas or eliminated them and pocketed the tax cuts. Warren Buffet said in addition to the percentage difference that 80% of individuals/corporations making over 250,000/y pay no taxes at all because they’ve moved off shore (see Stanley Tools as an example). So how many jobs with the lowest taxes in the Country’s history? 15 million GONE! Maybe if taxes were eliminated all together we could loose another 20 to 30 million!
Uncle Billy
September 20th, 2011
7:10 am
I should have added that the unemployment rate increased from 4.9% in December 2007 to 7.2% in December of 2008.
GT
September 20th, 2011
7:12 am
We missed the starting point of this recession, the wreck on Wall Street that started this traffic jam in the first place. We bailed out everything that moved except one firm, which to me and many was always curious how that one firm was washed away and others stayed. The government started playing God, who lived who died. Sounds like an Obama move, to his critics, but it was pure Bush. We rewarded failure, because it was too large to fail, except that one firm for some reason. If you are a small individual and raising the future of this country we got your pain, but if you are big like Bank of America the world can’t live without you.
This is what you call an artificial economy. Like an artificial heart if you didn’t have the bail out, the firm would not be there. There was something, and in my mind is something systematically wrong, with what we saved to have failed that dramatically in the first place. But certainly since we saved many of these patients is it too much to ask them to cut their own yard. They may be the only participants of this recession who understand how their lives were made better by the bail outs. And those 30,000 employees being fired by Bank America certainly wonder what could be worse that what they are going though. When the banks and Wall Street can stand on their two feet and get themselves out of problems they created then tell me how this is a class warfare. The government, which till this point is sponsored by the middle class, bailed them out. That same year obscene bonuses were being paid like these VIPs had no obligation to the rest of us. Since then this patched up group has operated like a ghost in these bad economic times.
Chip
September 20th, 2011
7:21 am
Oh well, I look at it this way… my family has plenty of rural acreage that is perfect for farming, and we still remember how to grow and preserve food… and we have the means and the will to defend it. Not to mention a huge supply of firewood. So let Obungle and his merry band of Bolsheviks wreck the economy. WE won’t starve and freeze — the urban liberal fools who voted for him will be the ones to starve and freeze.
Chip
September 20th, 2011
7:22 am
Oh, I see, GT… IT’S ALL GEORGE BUSH’S FAULT!
Riiiiight…
thewindwhistler
September 20th, 2011
7:23 am
The wealthy always find ways to keep their money. They are incredibly inventive. This will not work, taxing the rich. Government has to tax the middle class, they are no way as inventive as the rich. The middle class thinks they are getting away with paying when they have a garage sale, they sell a book for a dime that they paid $10.00 for and think they made out because they are not declaring it.
The one way that will work is for the internal revenue service to trust the tax payer to pay his fair share.
Actually, there are two ways, hire more “Internal Revenue Officers.” The are the only employees of the federal government that makes more for the government than the salary he is paid. Each revenue office brings in 17x his salary in from tax evaders.
theTruth
September 20th, 2011
7:31 am
Congressional Budget Office director Douglas Elmendorf admitted if the super-committee adjourned immediately, and if Congress left Washington for the next ten years—thus letting the tax cuts expire—the deficit would actually be reduced by a far greater amount than anything the super-committee is aiming to achieve.
The Bush tax cuts are the largest current policy driver of the deficit.
pcBobby
September 20th, 2011
7:55 am
Why is it that folk like you, Kyle — call every million/billionaire a “job creator?” I’m with you, Kyle. I don’t like the idea of engaging in so-called “class warfare.” Those who have achieved ought to be rewarded for their hard work and success. Those who were simply handed silver platters, though, ought to be offered incentives to create jobs/contribute to society or pay the higher tax rates to bring down the deficit. Indeed, that would be put a minor dent in the deficit. I agree that spending in all areas needs to be cut-from entitlements through the military. OK, why can’t we zero-in on who the so-called “job creators” currently are and give them the tax breaks/inc Then the rest of the million/billionaires ought to be offered incentives to become “job creators.” If they cannot become “job creators,” then tax them higher and make sure they don’t take their money over to the Caymans.
Really?
September 20th, 2011
8:16 am
Nice cut and paste job (again). Can’t you write something without taking as much as a third of you ‘article’ from another source? This is what high school kids do for term papers. Really!
carlosgvv
September 20th, 2011
8:20 am
Big Business has made it clear for some time now that they have no intention of creating more jobs here but, instead, will outsource as many jobs overseas as possible. They have made it equally clear they have no patriotism and no reguard whatsoever for the American worker. And yet, when Obama asks them to pay their fair share of taxes, their supporters practically began to shed tears at how bad Obama wants to treat those poor Corporations. Only in America would people who will gladly throw their supporters out into the street get such love from those same supporters.
joe
September 20th, 2011
8:24 am
“…….we’re back to spending money on jobs that aren’t ready for shovels.”
Kyle makes a ironically morolicious point here. Too bad his blog today IS ready for the shovel.
bwa
HDB
September 20th, 2011
8:38 am
What too many people fail to realize is when 1% of the populace controls 70% of the nation’s WEALTH, where else can one go to get the revenue for the government to perform its required tasks?? Whn asked why he robbed banks, Willie Suttin said: “That’s where the money is!” We all know that it will take shared sacrifice for the nation to get its fiscal house in order…but the wealthy have yet to be called upon to sacrifice….even though they are the MOST capable to afford it! It’s not class warfare…it IS math!!
Laurie
September 20th, 2011
8:38 am
“And experience teaches us that the wealthy are best positioned to take advantage of a complicated tax code and send Uncle Sam less money than he expected. This is a lose-lose-lose.”
That’s the only line you wrote that I can agree with. The rest is BS.
Road Scholar
September 20th, 2011
8:40 am
Why can’t any new infrastructure project be “Design Build”? Isn’t the private sector more efficient and effective than government? Besides, the private sector will construct them eventually! GDOT’s use of consultants for design is up to about 85% anyway. Yes it will take some time, but we have already wasted 4 years since the beginning of the recession? Do you want to waste more? How are those tax cuts working?
Oh the uncertainty, Oh the whining!
mudfoot
September 20th, 2011
8:45 am
What really detracts from your (and most conservatives) arguments regarding this issue is the fact that these “job creators” have been reaping unprecedented profits and accruing massive wealth for years now, yet they still are not living up to the label you’ve given them and creating jobs… hell they’re eliminating and outsourcing them to maximize profits. Basically, they’re actions (or inactions) over the past few years dilute any credibility your viewpoint contains
itsme
September 20th, 2011
9:03 am
Every day I become more convinced that there is no one in Washington willing or able to lead us out of this economic mess.
From Where I Sit
September 20th, 2011
9:15 am
Barry has DONE NOTHING for AMERICA, except spew his Socialist views!
GET THAT DUMBASS out of The White House!
Enough Said!!!!
mudfoot
September 20th, 2011
9:21 am
“Barry has DONE NOTHING for AMERICA, except spew his Socialist views!
GET THAT DUMBASS out of The White House!
Enough Said!!!!”
Unfortunately no, not enough said unless you’ve already subscribed and committed to far-rightwing propaganda. I’m no Obama fan but there are simple, undeniable truths that many on the right continue to deny:
Conservative policy contributed to today’s poor economic outlook AT LEAST as much as any other factor during the Bush Jr. years
williebkind
September 20th, 2011
9:26 am
Robert Littel
September 19th, 2011
8:54 pm
Be afraid, be very afraid!
williebkind
September 20th, 2011
9:39 am
It really does not make sense to me. How do the progressive whiners justify their claims that the middle class will go away? The rich can only cast one vote. There are few of them. The middle class and below middle class voters are many. So according to the message of the progressive socialists, the poor and middleclass voters will continue voting into office those that will not cater to the needs of the many. These liberal whiners defame the Tea Party members who by the way have put out a notice to office holders that spending has to stop. Obama must go! Liberals should become dinasours! Archeologist should someday dig up a tomb of a liberal and do a History moment of how people wanted the government to completely care for them. Then with a chuckle state, “Thank God there were those who said no to dreaming through life.”
Hmmmmmm
September 20th, 2011
9:41 am
Carlosgvv,
This country has the 2nd highest “cost” for companies to operate in the WORLD… If you were running the company where would you operate? This is all government controlled, and it’s not just a repub/democrat problem… Both parties have caused this problem…
JB
September 20th, 2011
9:46 am
Barry is toast. I think he knows it. Democrats will whisper that they know it. Some are brave enough this week to write about it( Denver Post and Chicago Tribune). In Capitalism, there are winner and losers, for a reason. Barry wants ALL to be winners, paid for by the winners. The winners are standing down waiting for a better climate. Nothing will happen until he’s gone. His only chance is to paint a picture of ” things are bad because the winners are hoarding all the money , denying you a job or your entitlements.” He knows most will believe that. When I see a poll that say’s that he’s got about a 40 % approval rating. That number is about right. That’s the entitlement dependency number.
mudfoot
September 20th, 2011
9:51 am
“Barry has DONE NOTHING for AMERICA, except spew his Socialist views!
GET THAT DUMBASS out of The White House!
Enough Said!!!!”
Unfortunately no, not enough said unless you’ve already subscribed and committed to extreme-right wing propaganda; and the odds of that happening to many independent voters before the next election are poor at best. The reason many independents dismiss this drivel immediately IMO is the GOP’s continued outright denial of several basic and undeniable truths:
Conservative policy over the past 25 years contributed AT LEAST as much as any other factor to today’s dismal economic environment
ALL must sacrifice in order to get the country’s fiscal house in order. ALL
The “job creators” which conservatives revere are actually killing jobs in America and reaping enormous profits in the process
Since Obama was elected the republican party’s primary and only goal has been to obstruct. Republicans are far more concerned with ousting the sitting president than they are with improving this country for those that voted them in to office. There is no other agenda – simply obstruct, infer, insult, lie, dramatize… anything is on the table as long as Obama is ousted in 2012. If many American citizens suffer during the process so be it
The tea party has fractured the republican party. Being conservative is no longer good enough; one must be immune to outside information, one must be merciless in your attacks facts and truth be damned, one must be an evangelist yet solely concerned with one’s self, one must NEVER compromise with the enemy, and one must realize that all that don’t propagate this hardline thinking are the enemy
“Trickle Down” economics is/has been a farce. It’s a really bad joke (with a worse punchline if you’re middle or lower class) This fiscal policy is not the end-all solution to our economic woes. It actually contributed greatly to the situation we are in at present and will continue to do so at an accellerated pace if/when we elect another “conservative” and he/she pushes this harder. All that has been accomplished since Reagan is that the wealthy have become fewer and wealthier, and everyone else has become poorer.
There are more issues, but as long as the GOP position is to totally deny the blatantly obvious they will have difficulty recruiting any independent thinkers. I’m not an Obama fan, yet given the republican party today and the candidates they’re offering I see him as the lesser of the two evils, even if the GOP continues it’s party-wide policy of “Party First! – Obstruct at ALL COSTS!”
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
September 20th, 2011
9:55 am
Everything would have been fine if Democrats had just kept paying their mortgages. Losers!
JB
September 20th, 2011
10:02 am
Mud foot……………….Winners are killing jobs because of the unfavorable tax climate and regulations in this country. Canada is at 16% and doing pretty well. We’re are 35% and ole Barry wants to take it higher. People are in business to make money and return a portion to the investors and get rich. I know it’s an unusual concept in a liberals mind.
JB
September 20th, 2011
10:07 am
You can trace all this crap back to Clinton, Frank and Dodd and MAKING banks have a policy of, ” If you can put a breath on a mirror, you can get a mortgage”. That is a FACT. We are in melt down over that insane piece government intervention.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
September 20th, 2011
10:13 am
ALL must sacrifice in order to get the country’s fiscal house in order. ALL
————
What is the moocher class sacrificing?
Robert Littel
September 20th, 2011
10:30 am
buck@gon – There are two groups of people in this country who believe that everyone to the left of them are Marxist/Communists. The first group are the Radical Socialists, for whom that assessment is definitionally and demonstrably correct, then there is the second group, consisting of doctrinaire, inflexible, absolutist, ignorant simpletons, who have goose-stepped so far to the Right that they have lost all grip on the definition of what freedom really stands for, and who are only one step away from torching our equivalent of the Reichstag, and blaming, (like they always blame the victims our rigged society has created), the vast mass of society they have the gall to call Marxists. Gee, I wonder which group you belong to?
theTruth
September 20th, 2011
10:31 am
williebkind: “The rich can only cast one vote. There are few of them.” Yes, but they spend millions e.g. Koch Bros, on brainwashing and influence. Proof of this is the Tea Party…voting against their interests.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
September 20th, 2011
10:40 am
Is “freedom” being forced to purchase a product you might not want?
Keep your laws off my health care, fascist.
google plus 1
September 25th, 2011
5:52 pm
This might be your best piece yet
Why we need to look closely at spending in the tax code | Kyle Wingfield
September 26th, 2011
11:14 am
[...] — In a related note: As predicted, President Obama’s decision to focus on eliminating loopholes only for higher earners, while [...]