Ralston eyes tax reform to boost Georgia jobs — just not yet
This summer’s meeting of the Legislature is extremely limited in scope. That’s by design: Redistricting is such a deeply political process that it’s best to wait until a regular session to deal with other matters.
That’s the case even when those “other matters” include measures to help Georgia’s economy get out of neutral and put Georgians back to work.
“I don’t know of anybody who really would doubt the fact that [that’s] one of the things we ought to be about, more than any other here,” Speaker David Ralston told me in an interview in his Capitol office Tuesday.
“Not government creating jobs, but government getting out of the way and allowing a climate to grow where small businesses across the state feel safe in maintaining the number of employees they have or growing a few employees, [and where] new companies want to come here and do business here because of the economic climate that we have.”
By the numbers, Georgia’s employment situation is a mixed bag. The statewide unemployment rate in July was the same as it was a year earlier: 10.1 percent. The number of Georgians employed by the private sector was virtually the same as last July — although that’s mostly because losses in metro Atlanta barely canceled out gains in the rest of the state.
On the bright side, Gallup’s “job creation index” — which compares the number of people who say their firms are hiring to those whose employers are shedding jobs — ranked us No. 10 in the nation in the first half of 2011. In our region, only South Carolina fared better. By this and other measures, Gallup put Georgia in the middle of the pack from 2008 to 2010.
Improving that situation will return to the agenda come January, when the General Assembly convenes its annual 40-day session. The centerpiece, Ralston said, will be taking another crack at revamping Georgia’s antiquated tax code.
“I view tax reform as a jobs plan,” Ralston said. “That was what was…driving me primarily on that issue last session. I think there are some things that we can do.
“We’ve looked at what other states are doing — Texas, Virginia, North Carolina and others that have had pretty good track records on jobs over the last few years, and there’s no reason we can’t be as competitive as any of those states.”
Tax reform was the subject of a months-long study by business leaders and economists from across Georgia, who presented their recommendations just before this year’s session.
Lawmakers scrapped some of their ideas, such as restoring the state sales tax on groceries as part of a sharp shift of the tax burden from income to consumption. The resulting plan lowered income tax rates less impressively. A dispute over the underlying data finally led Ralston to pull the plug on it.
“People can have honest differences about the policy, one way or the other,” Ralston said Tuesday. “Do you support an energy exemption, for example, which I think would be huge…to jobs here in Georgia. You can oppose that as being a budget-buster.
“But what I think we can’t have is a debate about whether the data is credible and whether it’s reliable, and that was the concern I had there in the closing days of the session.”
Less likely to gain favor is joining the other 49 states in letting our state pension plans invest in venture capital funds, in hopes of attracting investors’ money to Georgia’s start-ups.
Ralston said he’s “not outright, categorically opposed to that,” but he is wary of repeating other states’ mistakes.
One place not to look for a hiring spurt: the state budget. “Even given the modest increases we’ve had in revenues over the past 12 to 14 months, we’re still in a budget crisis,” he said.
Come January, this summer’s redistricting fights might be a relatively fond memory.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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102 comments Add your comment
Road Scholar
August 25th, 2011
6:04 am
Let’s wait a few more years; we don’t need jobs! This proves the Repubs don’t have a clue, other than place a larger burden on the poor and middle class.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
6:14 am
Road Scholar: Let’s wait until after our Martha’s Vineyard vacation; we don’t need jobs!
———————–
Fixed.
indendent voter
August 25th, 2011
6:29 am
Repubs don’t want to ” place a larger burden on poor and middle class “…they just don;t want to send any more money up to Washington…. where it gets redistributed for political favors… you get back less than 50 cents on the dollar for your tax $$$$.. Gov’t can’t create jobs… lower, simpified flat taxes… reform tax loopholes…. less regulations… Gov’t needs to get out of the way in a free markey economy…. look at the Post Office.. Energy Dept.. and yes the military !!!
DeborahinAthens
August 25th, 2011
6:39 am
“I view tax reform as a jobs plan…” Ralston says. THAT’S the problem, brainless Repugs keep doing the same thing over thinking that the end result will be different. If cutting taxes created jobs we would not have shed 8.5 million jobs during George Bush’s reign…uh…administration. Do you not get it? During Clinton’s adminisitration (when the tax rates were only 3 percent higher than where they are now) much Federal money went to fund things like scientific research that Repugs hate so much. The money made programs ramp up, so not only did the scientists, technicians, etc benefit, but the ancillary businesses surrounding these programs (building contractors, the lunch stand people, the people that made the materials that made the products that were being invented) benefited. There are other thing to cite–only government builds roads, bridges, water and sewer systems. Our infrastructure is crumbling while the Republicans fiddle. These infrastructure projects, funded with taxes, creat jobs. The guys that build the projects spend their paychecks on goods and services. Because Obama has been a proponent of thses types of projects, Republicans denegrate and defile them. They are idiots with no plans of their own as to how to get this economy unstuck. Those of you that keep electing the Republicans on the basis of cutting taxes and expect a growing
economy refuse to face facts. Go to the DOL and look at the facts, people. Then you right wing Christian Fundamentalists slobber over Perry, a man that bad mouths the Obama Stimulus while taking hundreds of billions of stimlus money to balance Texas’ budget. The job creation he touts is a joke. The new jobs are not “real” jobs where a product is made. Most are minimum wage service jobs. The other reason Texas looks good are the petroleum industry jobs that may have come about because of the increase in oil prices. Ralston keeps repeating the mantra of lower taxes create jobs and the kook-aid drinkers keep believing as this state spirals into oblivion.
indendent voter
August 25th, 2011
6:44 am
Deborah…. get to work… you’re late for your gov’t job !!
Karl Marx
August 25th, 2011
6:46 am
Face it, Ralston isn’t about creating jobs in the private sector no matter what he said. That silly tax “reform” plan last year was really a massive tax increase. It even created new taxes on labor charges.. If we are to have real tax reform these RINOs will not be the ones to do it.
jconservative
August 25th, 2011
6:58 am
Net US job creation in the last 40 years:
1970’s 27%
1980’s 20%
1990’s 20%
2000’s 0%
2010’s ?
There is a trend here.
Percentage of income received by the lowest 60% of Income Earners
1970 32.30%
1980 31.20%
1990 29.30%
2000 27.30%
2009 26.60%
There is a trend here.
Viet Vet
August 25th, 2011
6:59 am
Independent voter wins the award for the lamest rebuttal of the day. Don’t take it too hard, son, someone is bound to chime in with a “libtard” comment and save you.
Ronnie Raygun
August 25th, 2011
7:27 am
NC has a better economy because they’ve invested in education and infrastructure over the past 20 years. (something GA has neglected) Virginia has a huge population of evil federal government employees and contractors. Texas has oil and gas under their state and energy prices are high.
GA can only hope to emulate one of those states (NC) and tax cuts ain’t gonna do it.
DeborahinAthens
August 25th, 2011
7:37 am
Independent voter…you shouldn’t jump to conclusions…I am fairly well off because I happen to earn my living as a capitalist…that’s why it’s important for me to know the real facts instead of the dogfood the Repugs serve you guys. Without the real facts, my clients and I would be among the lower fifty percent that you guys like to characterize as sucking off the teat that you somehow think you support. I have given you facts–easily checked. I live and die by the facts. What have you given us? Did you even go to the DOL website to check the facts before popping off? See, I see you living in a “modular home”, you go to church religiously, have five kids–all homeschooled — and at least two guns, One is a “thirty ought six” you keep by your front door and the other is a handgun you keep handy for the bad times when the “bad element” gets out of hand. Did I nail your profile? Now you go to your job, if you are fortunate enough to have one.
Ayn Rant
August 25th, 2011
7:46 am
In other words, Kyle, the Georgia politicians don’t have a clue about how to create the jobs that are needed to pull Georgia or the nation out of stagflation. What’s more, they’ve misdiagnosed the problem. There is an excess of capital but not enough consumer spending to support profitable investment of capital in new and expanding business. Measures that increase capital rather than consumer demand are useless.
Income tax reduction for taxpayers that already have enough income to support their lifestyle creates more excess capital but little consumer demand. Measures like cutting state government spending kill jobs, reduces consumer demand, and makes matters much worse.
The measures that will work are to convert some of the excess capital into consumer spending. This can be done by taxing excess income, taxing wealth (property and financial holdings), and distributing the proceeds to worthwhile infrastructure projects and to the poor, who will spend it. That will create the consumer demand that creates the investment opportunities that creates jobs.
I’m not making this up, you know. It’s simple economics, and it works in the balanced economies of countries like Germany, the Netherlands, and the Scandinavian states. Those economies survived the world-wide economic recession without much pain, and have sustained growth of both jobs and capital.
The idea was first expressed by Christ in the first four books of the New Testament.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
7:52 am
“THAT’S the problem, brainless Repugs keep doing the same thing over thinking that the end result will be different.”
——-
Nine. Percent. Unemployment.
Never happened on our President Bush’s watch.
Tiberius
August 25th, 2011
7:54 am
There is only so much a state can do in the job creation arena. Since they can’t print money they don’t have like the federal government can, tax policy, regulations and infrastructure are pretty much it.
Taxes in this state are probably low enough right now, but should be shifted more towards the consumption side, but the Ralston plan remains a disaster in the way it tries to do this. The last thing you want to do is jeopardize your revenue stream in a down economy that shows no sign of sustained recovery by lowering taxes further.
Infrastructure is problematic in this state. Water needed to attract some of the manufacturing firms that need it in their processes is questionable, even if the Lake Lanier issue gets settled. This state will remain water-poor (unless we can tap the Tennessee long-term). The rail system is good enough, however, it is concentrated in areas that are less than desirable for firms trying to move here in that the traffic and lifestyle issues that also accompany the rail system centralization do not help. No need to comment on the road system. It is what it is.
Regulations are the key to attracting businesses, especially at the state and local level. The state needs to create enterprise zones where new construction is fast-tracked through shortened and expedited permitting processes. If a company can be up and running in half the time it might take in another state, they’ll look more favorably at us when all is said and done.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
7:54 am
THAT’S the problem, brainless Repugs keep doing the same thing over thinking that the end result will be different.
———
Uh, actually, the result WAS different from 2001-2008. 4-6% unemployment.
Obozononics
August 25th, 2011
7:56 am
Road Scholar;
Since the democrats had control for about 150 years our economy in Georgia should be so vibrant that no republican could take it down in a few short years, right? So really who has no clue?
JDW
August 25th, 2011
8:00 am
Ahh yes the creativity of our erstwhile Georgia Republican Leadership…
“I view tax reform as a jobs plan,”
I guess tax reform would cure cancer, foster world peace and rid the world of poverty if given a chance.
I don’t suppose any of these “librul” ideas would help…
-Fixing our transportation woes
-Repairing the banking system that leads the nation in banking failures
-Creating a coherent water supply strategy for the main employment center of the state
-A real plan to address our pitiful educational standing
-Stop trading real jobs in education and other governmental functions for tax cuts we hope might create jobs to replace them
-Coherent plans to increase the skills of our workforce
-A funding strategy to help entrepreneurs create new companies…psssst if you look at the data NEW companies create the jobs not “small business”
Ahhh I remember the good ole’ days…years of unemployment lower than the national average, growth higher than the national average, consistently being rated as “one of the best places to live/start a business…then came 2000 and the Republican scourge.
Obozononics
August 25th, 2011
8:00 am
Since all of these brilliant democrats keep preaching fairness, equality and sharing the burden, in a bad economy, why aren’t you smart folks pushing the FairTax.org? You can’t get any more fairness or equal than that? Or just tell the truth fair to you means taking from people that have more and giving to those that have less, please tell me how that is fair?
Tiberius
August 25th, 2011
8:01 am
DeborahinAthens, you might want to pay a bit more attention to the subject at hand before your next stream of consciousness post.
Kyle is writing today about GEORGIA’S attempts at job creation.
You attack NATIONAL issues with the GOP.
And see these little spaces between lines? They’re called paragraph breaks. You might wish to use them every now and again to organize your thoughts.
JDW
August 25th, 2011
8:01 am
@LBB…”Uh, actually, the result WAS different from 2001-2008. 4-6% unemployment.”
You are right it took the Repugs 7 years to raise it from 4% to 6%, but take heart they are getting better, it only took 3 to get from 6% to 10%.
indendent voter
August 25th, 2011
8:03 am
Woah !!! Deborah…. why all the HATE.??? do you HATE people that live in modular homes or go to church ???? too much CNN ?? we;d all be way better off to think Independently… not Demo or Repub… good people are in BOTH parties… I’m just a businessman… I know less gov’t is better.. our system is broken.. read what you said again ??? tax reform would benefit us all.. Rich have loopholes.. we need to drain the swamp… Term limits !!
JDW
August 25th, 2011
8:04 am
@LBB “Nine. Percent. Unemployment. Never happened on our President Bush’s watch.”
Tiberius
August 25th, 2011
8:11 am
“I don’t suppose any of these “librul” ideas would help…”
No, JDW, they won’t help. Because they aren’t “ideas” but rather are gripes and complaints.
Which from what I’ve seen you seem to specialize in.
JDW
August 25th, 2011
8:26 am
@Obozononics…”why aren’t you smart folks pushing the FairTax.org”
‘Cause, ughhhhh, duhhhh it won’t work. Check your Politifacts…
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jan/23/adding-fairtax/
JDW
August 25th, 2011
8:26 am
More reading….
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/files/bartlett_fair_tax.pdf
JDW
August 25th, 2011
8:27 am
@Tiberus….”Because they aren’t “ideas” but rather are gripes and complaints.
”
And I suppose griping about “high taxes” when the tax burden is the lowest in sixty years is breaking new ground?
Finn McCool
August 25th, 2011
8:29 am
Keep lowering those tax rates, we don’t need paved roads. let the asphalt breakdown into dirt roads.
Have you noticed the number of potholes in Atlanta the past couple of years? Of course that creates jobs for mechanics and tire companies.
carlosgvv
August 25th, 2011
8:32 am
“not Government creating jobs, but Government getting out of the way”
Translation – Going back to laissez faire where Business is not regulated in any way so they can lie, cheat, steal and scam the public as much as they please. In return, they will give us politicians tons of cash for our election and re-election campaigns.
Phil's Tel-A-Gramm
August 25th, 2011
8:41 am
Kyle,
I have not read that link you provided to the recommendations for tax reform but I was wondering one thing: Do they happen to define “fairness” in the text given that they use the word in the title of the document?
DebbieDoRight
August 25th, 2011
8:52 am
LBB: Road Scholar: Let’s wait until after our Martha’s Vineyard vacation; we don’t need jobs!
LBB: Nine. Percent. Unemployment. Never happened on our President Bush’s watch.
Little Barry – here’s a Hillary’s helpful hint from one of your own (see below):
Kyle is writing today about GEORGIA’S attempts at job creation.
Notice the words GEORGIA. Exactly when are you going to blame the people in charge of GEORGIA (republicans) for GEORGIA’S problems? Or is it too much for you to turn off your auto-hate of Obama and actually
THINK before you post? Duh!
DebbieDoRight
August 25th, 2011
8:55 am
This needed to be highlighted:
-Stop trading real jobs in education and other governmental functions for tax cuts we hope might create jobs to replace them
Phil's Tel-A-Gramm
August 25th, 2011
9:01 am
Kyle,
What did you think of these comments by Mr. Frazier in that link of yours:
… Consistent with the principle of fairness and equity, we took a critical look at exemptions to the state’s sales tax system and other tax preferences and have made recommendations to eliminate or sunset many of those. Another overarching concern for us was maintaining the state’s triple AAA bond rating. Loss of this AAA rating could cost the state hundreds of millions of dollars in unnecessary interest expense…
saywhat?
August 25th, 2011
9:06 am
My rectum was itchy. I was unsure what to do about it, but then the answer came to me- TAX BREAKS! They fix everything.
Perhaps somebody should remind Ralston of the old saying “When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail”.
jconservative
August 25th, 2011
9:08 am
Sherman Antitrust Act – 1890
Clayton Act -1914
Fair Labor Standards Act – 1938
Fair Packaging and Labeling Act – 1966
The Safety and Health Act – 1970
Beth Merkleson
August 25th, 2011
9:28 am
We could have completely reformed the entire state economy if Evil Overlord Casey Cagle hadn’t allied himself with the Democrats. Only a heroic effort by my good friend and true Republican Cecil Staton stopped him, and that took up so much time we couldn’t fix the economy.
So if you’re unemployed, blame Casey and the Godless Democrats, it’s all their fault. I swear on my dear mother’s grave.
Phil's Tel-A-Gramm
August 25th, 2011
9:52 am
Kyle,
What does the following sentence mean to you:
“Similarly situated taxpayers should pay approximately the same amount of tax.”
Would you interpret, for example, “similarly situated”, to mean “those within a given geographic area”, like, in Georgia!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
10:18 am
Jobless claims rise. Again. Prior week’s jobless numbers revised upward. Again.
Your Idiot Messiah inherited a recovery and blew it, along with over $4 trillion we don’t have.
Kyle Wingfield
August 25th, 2011
10:27 am
I can tell who doesn’t have a clue about the tax reform plan by their comments. If you have said anything about “lowering taxes” or “cutting taxes,” you don’t have a clue — because the goal is to have a revenue-neutral proposal.
But the worst of all is saywhat’s 9:06 about TAX BREAKS! Why is it the worst? Because the goal of the reform is the *exact opposite* of TAX BREAKS. The goal is to eliminate TAX BREAKS in exchange for lower marginal rates that don’t favor one group or activity over others.
Karl Marx
August 25th, 2011
10:38 am
The tax reform plan offered LAST year was NOT “revenue neutral”. Also if you eliminate “tax breaks” you are increasing taxes on the person who is loosing that break. Last year the target for the increase was the middle class in Georgia.
Kyle Wingfield
August 25th, 2011
10:45 am
Karl @ 10:38: And that’s why it was pulled. No one was sure about what would happen to whom, because the bill got too many rewrites in too little time.
The goal originally — and still, as I understand it — was to keep total revenues steady.
Really?
August 25th, 2011
10:47 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
7:52 am
Nine. Percent. Unemployment.
Never happened on our President Bush’s watch.
—————————————————————-
Zero. Job. Growth. In. A. Decade.
That’s only ever happend on our President Bush’s watch.
Furious Styles
August 25th, 2011
10:53 am
Georgia will keep waiting, just like they’ve waited for traffic fixes.
Hillbilly D
August 25th, 2011
10:55 am
Not government creating jobs, but government getting out of the way and allowing a climate to grow
Handing out tax breaks, which is what he’s really talking about, isn’t “getting out of the way”, in my opinion.
redneckbluedog
August 25th, 2011
10:56 am
So you would rather have 1% of the population hold 40% of the wealth than have them pay higher taxes…So, where would you have it end..?!?! 50%..? 60%..? How about go all in….You know in Russia, long considered a plutocratic oligarchy, the wealthiest 1% hold 40% of that country’s wealth, too…..The founding fathers wrote ELECTIONS into the Constitution for a reason..so we could GET TO KNOW our leaders…supporting sending money to “creepy anonymous overlords” that we don’t even know is anti-American, anti-Constitutional, crazy, and stupid…..I would rather let the government, who we know and elected have the power than anonymous CEO’s….We may not LIKE the government…but at least we KNOW WHO THEY ARE….!!!!!
Really?
August 25th, 2011
10:56 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
7:54 am
Uh, actually, the result WAS different from 2001-2008. 4-6% unemployment.
Let’s just ignore the fact that Bush handed off a 7.8% unemployment rate in Jan of 2009. Under his watch, unemployment went from 4.2% to 7.8%. At least Obama has tempered that, and jobs are actually being created in the private industry. It’s the government layoffs (thanks tea party) keep the unemployment rate high.
Aquagirl
August 25th, 2011
11:12 am
Kyle, you might want to ease up on the posters, considering how PO’d Ralston and co. were when Stacy Abrams and poindexters of Ga. State informed them their bill would increase taxes, and shared that info with everyone else.
If your Republican elected officials are that clueless (or backhanded) the general public is understandably confused as to what they’re trying to accomplish. Not to mention Mr. Ralston used the term “tax cuts” when complaining about his derailed tax increa…excuse me, tax reform.
“”With all due respect, I’m not sure my friends in the Democratic party have ever seen a tax cut they’re going to be pleased with. We just have a basic disagreement with them. They believe we need to keep more money in the government coffers, because government makes better decisions than taxpayers do in how to spend it…”
http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2011/04/13/your-morning-jolt-david-ralston-criticizes-democratic-stones-thrown-at-tax-overhaul/
If you don’t trust your lamestream liberal media collegue, right around 2:17 in the WABE interview, Ralston himself says “our objective was to be….was for this to be a TAX CUT, or at least to be revenue neutral….”
Now you’re acting like Georgia Republicans weren’t trying to sell “tax reform” as something else? And jumping on posters for saying that? Puh-leeze, Kyle.
Hillbilly D
August 25th, 2011
11:23 am
Aquagirl
In my opinion, that tax reform bill was always meant to be a tax increase but they got caught. That’s why they backed off it.
Obozononics
August 25th, 2011
11:24 am
JDW,
After having read what you wanted me to I am sure that the fair tax will work, all that was printed there was conjecture, and false arguments, so tell me again why 77,000 pages of loopholes is good for America?
Aquagirl
August 25th, 2011
11:32 am
In my opinion, that tax reform bill was always meant to be a tax increase but they got caught.
Hillbilly, in their defense, they could have simply been confused. That’s right, Speaker Ralston’s outrage might have been genuine. I bet if you pull the string in his back he’ll sound like Barbie: “Math class is tough!”
Kyle Wingfield
August 25th, 2011
11:35 am
Aquagirl: And dozens and dozens of times before that, the goal of the reform was consistently described as being revenue-neutral.
I will grant you this: By the end of the session, the GOP had so badly bungled the reform that it was left trying to make one significant corporate tax cut (energy exemption) and one rather piddling individual tax cut (top rate from 6 percent to 5.75 percent) just to pass *something*. It was a horse of a different color by then. But it wasn’t going to pass because a) the numbers were dodgy because of the fast and furious tweaking of the plan, and b) too many legislators were still interested in the broader reform they’d set out to do in the first place.
My take is that the sudden, emphatic talk about “tax cuts” was an attempt to minimize the reputational damage from a much-hyped, bigger reform gone awry. (You might call it “spin.”) And that, given more time to work on the plan, the focus will return to crafting a broader, revenue-neutral plan as originally intended.
That’s certainly how their proposal come January will be judged.
Don't Tread
August 25th, 2011
11:58 am
“A real plan to address our pitiful educational standing”
Well, we tried Beverly Hall, The Savior For All Educational Woes…now there’s a liberal idea that didn’t work so well.
Anyone else notice that most of the states at the bottom of the Job Creation Index were blue states? And most of the states at the top of the index were red states? You know, those supposedly backward states that don’t give a hoot about education?
Wonder why that is?
Hillbilly D
August 25th, 2011
11:59 am
Since we’re talking tax reform, why don’t we open up the property tax can of worms? It’s an outdated system that had some merit in the 1800’s, when most people’s wealth was in land. Time has passed it by and taxing on “Fair Market Value” instead of current use, is another inequity, in my opinion.
Property taxes are also a much different animal in rural areas than urban and suburban areas. They are two different worlds and what works for one, doesn’t necessarily work for the other.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
12:01 pm
Zero. Job. Growth. In. A. Decade.
——–
And yet unemployment was kept between 4-6%.
Your Idiot Messiah would send his Aunt Zeitunie back where she came from for Bush’s record on jobs.
Jefferson
August 25th, 2011
12:09 pm
Some companies want educated employees to hire for their good paying jobs, the companies you attract by bribes just want a strong back and a weak mind so they can overwork them, pay them less and make them thank you for it. In the meantime they are taxing the state’s ifrastructure and letting the state’s residents pay for it. Yep, let the bribes begin, the GOP way of business.
Why not? He knows everything already.
August 25th, 2011
12:09 pm
Except, the unemployment rate wasn’t 6% when Bush left office.
Why not? He knows everything already.
August 25th, 2011
12:17 pm
It was 7.6% in January, 2009 and rapidly moving up. It had gone up almost three points in the last year of the Bush administration.
Grasshopper
August 25th, 2011
12:21 pm
“Have you noticed the number of potholes in Atlanta the past couple of years? Of course that creates jobs for mechanics and tire companies.” Finn
You do know that the city and it’s Democratic leaders are resposible for the potholes, don’t you.
Southern Comfort
August 25th, 2011
12:25 pm
Karl @ 10:38: And that’s why it was pulled. No one was sure about what would happen to whom, because the bill got too many rewrites in too little time.
The goal originally — and still, as I understand it — was to keep total revenues steady.
If the final legislation keeps revenues steady by adding to the tax burden of the lower and middle class, wouldn’t that be counterproductive in an economy that’s based in consumption? Seems like the lower and middle classes tend to put much larger percentages of their income back into the economy in the form of consumption.
Phil's Tel-A-Gramm
August 25th, 2011
12:31 pm
Kyle,
Would it be principled to tax end users of your blog posts or to just impose a tax on you for your blog posts. I think it better to just tax you since this would yield a more consistent and predictable tax revenue.
Aquagirl
August 25th, 2011
12:38 pm
Kyle, I do appreciate your thoughts on what gears were turning in Ralston’s head, but that wasn’t a seat of the pants spin moment. The GOP may have spun one way, saying that the goal was tax reform, but they consistently said the final product would cut taxes. And they were surely selling that idea as a subtext. Counterspin, whoo-wee! No wonder everyone is confused.
Here’s another link where Chip Rodgers says “What we are going to be looking at in a final version is going to be a pretty good tax cut.”
http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/details-emerge-of-new-901039.html
Much as I’d love to, I can’t surf the net all day to prove the Georgia GOP was using their “tax reform” in a dog-whistle manner to keep their lemmings convinced the GOP is about cutting taxes and the socialist-Marxist Democrats will RAISE YOUR TAXES!!!!!111!!! ELEVENTY-LEVEN!!!!111!!
One impediment is that with the Republican super majority, we don’t really know. Were they going to unwittingly raise taxes because they are too stupid to do teh maths? Is Hillbilly right, they planned a tax increase and were only stopped by the socialist-Marxist-tax-raising Democrats? With that super majority, they can cook up any plan they want and we have no idea, no record of votes, and no transparency whatsoever.
So please forgive me if I don’t agree that as you say “given more time to work on the plan, the focus will return to crafting a broader, revenue-neutral plan as originally intended.” They had an entire session, and no Democrats in the way. Unless they are currently in Oz, the Republicans aren’t going to suddenly acquire courage, brains, or a heart. Some may be getting ruby slippers in the airport men’s room, but that’s not the point.
In any case, smacking down posters for repeating exactly what the GOP said is unwarranted. Unless you plan to lecture your fellow Republicans for cluelessly BELIEVING the spin and hauling it into the voting booth. Politicians spin, I don’t blame them, that’s what they do. The people who really buy that spin are the problem.
Tiberius
August 25th, 2011
12:40 pm
JDW, your misunderstanding of the FairTax is legendary, as is PolitiFact’s.
And relying on Bruce Bartlett (a former treasury Secretary under Bush who doesn’t even have a degree in economics) to judge a tax plan (one where he makes up figures to fit his conclusion) is laughable.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
12:41 pm
[Unemployment] was 7.6% in January, 2009 and rapidly moving up. It had gone up almost three points in the last year of the Bush administration.
———
And yet unemployment in every month of our President Bush’s eight years was lower than in any month of the Obozo regime.
Obozo: Inferior to our President Bush.
Soothsayer
August 25th, 2011
12:41 pm
“My rectum was itchy. I was unsure what to do about it, but then the answer came to me- TAX BREAKS! They fix everything.
Perhaps somebody should remind Ralston of the old saying “When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail”.
Post of the day as far as I’m concerned.
Tiberius
August 25th, 2011
12:46 pm
Aquagirl and Hillbilly, I think that ANY speculation that the GOP in Georgia intended to raise taxes is completely unfounded.
First, it goes against EVERY stated goal of the national and state party.
Second, it’s bad politics. Nobody wants to be painted with the “You raised taxes” brush – especially Republicans.
Third, it’s bad economics in a recession.
Fourth, why do you assume that:
A. the GOP is smart enough to craft a tax increase and sell it to us as a revenue neutral tax reform when you consistently accuse the GOP of being less than intelligent.
B. The state GOP is capable of reforming our tax code without any mistakes when you consider them less than intelligent.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
12:47 pm
Revenue increased and unemployment decreased after the Bush tax cuts were implemented in ‘03.
Just sayin…
Mike
August 25th, 2011
1:00 pm
If low taxes = more jobs, then why was GA 50th (that’s second to last) in terms of job creation? Why is our unemployment rate still higher than the national average?? We already have some of the lowest taxes in the country, yet jobs are not being created. Someone please answer this for me…
Tiberius
August 25th, 2011
1:01 pm
LBB, as with all other things associated with the economy, using a single action or policy to assign a change in the economy is not accurate.
Mike
August 25th, 2011
1:05 pm
“Revenue increased and unemployment decreased after the Bush tax cuts were implemented in ‘03.
Just sayin…”
So cutting taxes and increasing spending (aka the “war on terror”) causes revenues to increase?? You are an idiot and if you don’t think this recession was caused by the failed policies of the Bush Administration, you should really consider suicide.
Oh, and we pretty much paid off our debt when Clinton left office… but Bush managed to screw that up pretty quick.
I mean, I’m just sayin…
Tiberius
August 25th, 2011
1:07 pm
Because, Mike, low taxes do not always mean more jobs. Sometimes it means you don’t lose as many jobs as you might have.
The constant liberal / conservative arguments that “one action” does the same thing in all economies and in all situations is sophomoric at best. The economy is too large and too complex for one thing (usually) to affect it positively. It can, however, be affected negatively by a single action such as raising taxes in a recession. The optics and the actual removal of capital would likely send markets downward, removing even more capital.
The answer on taxes right now is to flatten them as far as rates are concerned, but get rid of loopholes and subsidies to offset the flattened rates.
Karl Marx
August 25th, 2011
1:10 pm
If you remember they kept trying to pass any variation of it right up until the final hour. The speaker seamed peeved that they still could not get anything passed. And to note it was just barley defeated. I don’t have a problem with “tax reform” if it is truly tax reform. Go ahead and tax labor but eliminate ALL income tax in the process. Don’t just keep income tax in place with a promise to reduce it in the future. I know what promises mean to the legislature. Aka the GA 400 tool booths etc, etc. As far as the legislature is concerned if you don’t practice “a bird in hand” theory you will get burned. With our legislature a bird in hand is worth more than anything they have in the bush. And I have heard the “steady revenue” fantasy many times before. The last one was to kill Richardson’s GREAT plan. I still remember all the politicians clamming how stable property tax was. Funny how they are not saying that now isn’t it.
Tiberius
August 25th, 2011
1:11 pm
“You are an idiot and if you don’t think this recession was caused by the failed policies of the Bush Administration, you should really consider suicide. ”
Sorry, Mike, but it was 35 years of mismanagement of the housing market and investments that caused the recession, not any failed policies of the bush Administration (except that they didn’t try to reverse the bad policies).
And a GOP Congress had dropped our DEFICIT down to virtually zero (except they used faulty SS numbers to get to their last bit of “surplus”). Our DEBT has not gone down one penny in decades.
You need to know the difference between DEBT and DEFICIT, Mike, and who really is responsible for both (Congress).
Just sayin’!
Aquagirl
August 25th, 2011
1:14 pm
Fourth, why do you assume that: B. The state GOP is capable of reforming our tax code without any mistakes when you consider them less than intelligent.
I don’t–that’s why I don’t vote for the bungling amoral idjits. Also, when you misplace your car keys or forget to pick up milk at the grocery store, that’s a “mistake” It’s not really in the same category as “accidentally raised taxes on the middle class because we can’t locate a tax reform with both hands and a flashlight.”
ANY speculation that the GOP in Georgia intended to raise taxes is completely unfounded. First, it goes against EVERY stated goal of the national and state party.
Well, their stated goal was tax reform, not a tax cut, even though they stated it was a tax cut. Which turned out not to be a tax cut at all when somebody with a brain (translation: not a Republican) consulted people who can do math without removing their shoes and socks.
If the Kool-aid has softened your brain enough to ignore all that, there’s not much I can do to help you.
redneckbluedog
August 25th, 2011
1:22 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
12:47 pm
Revenue increased and unemployment decreased after the Bush tax cuts were implemented in ‘03.
Just sayin…
AND SO DID THE DEFICIT..!!!! JUST SAYIN’
Really?
August 25th, 2011
1:29 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
12:47 pm
Revenue increased and unemployment decreased after the Bush tax cuts were implemented in ‘03.
for the first 2 months, but everyone just ignore what happend for the 82 months after that……
Moderate Line
August 25th, 2011
1:33 pm
Here is the methodology gallup used to come up with there index:
Gallup asks those who are employed whether their companies are hiring workers and expanding the size of their labor forces, not changing the size of their workforces, or laying off workers and reducing their workforces. The figures reported here represent the net difference between the percentage reporting an expansion and the percentage reporting a reduction in their workforces.]
Seriously, Georgia and South Carolina both have unemployment rates over 10%. South Carolina’s has gone a percentage point since April. Georgia’s. This index does not seem very reliable.
Phil's Tel-A-Gramm
August 25th, 2011
1:35 pm
The Democrats put a halt to this whole tax redistribution scheme to shift taxes from the wealthiest and on to the poorest in Georgia via their announcement of said scheme to the public before the Republicans had a chance to sneak it through.
Phil's Tel-A-Gramm
August 25th, 2011
1:53 pm
Per the into in that document that Kyle provided a link to:
We were not charged with making this set of recommendations “revenue-neutral” although we have included it in our thinking.
My reading of that statement is that this study group was not given instruction by the state’s ruling party to lower taxes overall. Further, their stated goal was to make the tax structure more “fair” (I love that word, don’t you, Kyle) by making the income tax less progressive. Also, they specifically stated that inclusion of property taxes was not within the scope of their charter. The bottom line as I read it was to shift taxes from higher income people and businesses onto lower income people. By the way, another of the original recommendations was to reinstate the tax on household food with the exception of WIC and foodstamps. So, what do you think Kyle. Does that sound “fair” enough to you.
JDW
August 25th, 2011
1:54 pm
@Obozononics
“After having read what you wanted me to I am sure that the fair tax will work, all that was printed there was conjecture, and false arguments,”
Well sometimes different people look at the same data and reach different conclusions, I am sure 5 or 6 people out of 100 will agree with your point of view.
As for this bit “so tell me again why 77,000 pages of loopholes is good for America?”…
I never said that. I have consistently said the tax system I prefer is one that combines a VAT and a surtax on upper incomes. I think our tax system should produce about 21% of GDP in revenue to be viable. When we last balanced the budget the rate was around 19% of GDP. If you taxed every penny of US personal income at 15% you would raise around 12.5% of GDP…won’t work now, wouldn’t have worked in the past, will never work in the future.
Moderate Line
August 25th, 2011
1:56 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
12:47 pm
Revenue increased and unemployment decreased after the Bush tax cuts were implemented in ‘03.
Just sayin…
+++++
Tax revenues in 2008 were up over 14% over 2000. However, tax revenues in 2000 were up over 211% over 1992. If you adjust for inflation revenues in 2008 were actually 8% lower while the revenues in 2000 whereas revenues adjusted for inflation inflation in 2000 were up 71%.
Also, government revenues in 2004 were up 1.9% while inflation was at 3.3%.
This information is using OMB data and the inflation calcurator referenced below.
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
Moderate Line
August 25th, 2011
1:59 pm
I should that was income tax data not all taxes collected.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
2:12 pm
The deniers are out in force! Of course they hypocritically have no problem ascribing Clinton’s pretend surplus (never mind that thieving of the SS trust fund) to his tax increases.
JDW
August 25th, 2011
2:14 pm
Sorry picked up the wrong number above. The Fair Tax actually uses 23% of consumption so if everyone spent every dime they made last year and recieved no offsets the Fair Tax would have raised about 19% of GDP.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
2:26 pm
Nice try, Moderate, but pu President Bush’s tax cuts were fully implemented in 2003, not 2000.
Lower rates, higher revenues, lower unemployment.
Moderate Line
August 25th, 2011
2:45 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
2:26 pm
Nice try, Moderate, but pu President Bush’s tax cuts were fully implemented in 2003, not 2000.
Lower rates, higher revenues, lower unemployment.
+++
You obviously missed the part were I pointed out tax revenues went down in 2004 from 2003 after being adjusted for inflation.
You are cherry picking data for 2003 because that was low point of tax revenues since 1998.
http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/supply-side_spin.html
Moderate Line
August 25th, 2011
2:49 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
2:12 pm
The deniers are out in force! Of course they hypocritically have no problem ascribing Clinton’s pretend surplus (never mind that thieving of the SS trust fund) to his tax increases.
+++
If you look at the OMB tables you would see that SS has typically run a surplus and medicare has not. In fact if you add the two together I believe you would find in most years the two programs are running a deficit. So in general the rest of the government is not being funding by revenue from trust funds it is actually the other way around.
jd
August 25th, 2011
2:57 pm
You can’t cut corporate taxes below zero — we are already paying companies to create jobs here (at 6 figures per job). This approach has not worked this past decade. Tx, VA, and NC experienced job growth due to govt stimulus – research via universities (also stimulus), and expansion of govt jobs (military and civil).
Moderate Line
August 25th, 2011
2:57 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 25th, 2011
2:26 pm
Nice try, Moderate, but pu President Bush’s tax cuts were fully implemented in 2003, not 2000.
Lower rates, higher revenues, lower unemployment.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Federal agencies have published similar statements regarding the effect of tax cuts on federal receipts. From the Congressional Budget Office’s 2007 Budget Outlook: “The expiration of tax provisions as scheduled has a substantial impact on CBO’s projections, especially beyond 2010 when a number of revenue-reducing tax provisions enacted in the past several years are slated to expire,” the report says. “Almost all of the expiring provisions reduce revenues.”
The Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that the 2001 tax legislation (the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act) would cause government revenues to be 107.7 billion less than they would have been in the absence of the legislation in 2004, 107.4 billion less in 2005 and 135.2 billion less in 2006. The committee’s estimates for the effect of the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 were that it would reduce otherwise projected revenues by 148.7 billion in 2004, 82.2 billion in 2005 and 20.7 billion in 2006. The JCT makes its comparisons against the Congressional Budget Office’s receipts baselines.
http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/supply-side_spin.html
Obozononics
August 25th, 2011
3:46 pm
Moderate Line,
Clinton NEVER had a surplus, he had one year where he did NOT ADD to the deficit. There was still over 4 trillion in IOU’s in the hopper. By the way it was a republican congress that pushed the non-spending bill through. So please tell me which one of those two facts are incorrect?
Don't Tread
August 25th, 2011
3:46 pm
“we pretty much paid off our debt when Clinton left office”
Really? Holy cow, I must have missed that memo. I would think that if we really had paid off the debt, there would be no more Republican Party.
Back to reality…Clinton is largely responsible for the mess we’re in now. He fathered the whole idea of people having the right to own a home (even if they never paid a bill on time in their life) and pushed through the “most favored trade nation” status for China, in between recreational activities with interns.
Obozononics
August 25th, 2011
3:49 pm
Time to face the music, we do not have a tax problem we have a spending problem, yet the loser liberals have drunk too much Kool-Aid to do math, so keep on spending…
Sip On Sales Tax
August 25th, 2011
4:00 pm
I doubt one (1) percent of folks could tell you what they actually pay in sales tax dollars each year……….that is the real reason you are hearing so much about converting to a collection system based on sales tax……….no sooner than the conversion is done and we see sales tax receipts plummet we will be right back to the income tax………granted it may take a few years for Repubs to admit the mistake……I will almost bet once you put 7-10% (state) on the table, temptation will be just a little more than alot of folks can stand………..lets not fall for this circus act. I vote for cleaning up the income tax and looking out for the middle class. As we saw last year, the Republicans were once again trying to stick it to the working class……….read the report for yourself!
THE "REAL" TRUTH
August 25th, 2011
4:27 pm
Go back to the tax rates prior to Dubya. If you look now, Kyle, et al., you’ll see the Georgia infrastructure literally falling apart. You see county governments in dire straits and having to choose between police/fire services and other vital programs. All because there is fear on increasing taxes on the wealthiest. Further, the continued departure of middle class jobs just adds to the demise of the state overall. Those earners now have NO money to put back into the economy. Ergo, foreclosures through the roof that equal NO tax revenues, No consumer spending. SO exactly how do you replenish what was lost? Oh, you elect a ReKnucklehead who does not see anything past No taxes on the rich, but Tax the heck out of the middle and lower class.
Brilliance at its best….
Darwin
August 25th, 2011
4:27 pm
Life with Republicans is living in the Land of Oz. In all my years, I continue to hear from the right simplistic rhetoric about jobs, global conflict, etc. You name it, they got a slogan for it. Government can only create jobs by spending money to put people to work. Limiting regulations will only allow companies to pollute and limit workers’ rights. If you limit government spending you’re going to put more people out of work. But why continue to try to explain to the right wing. The Tea Party people who are retired and yell slogans like “Keep your government hands off my Medicare!” If you ever find reality, let me know.
Michael H. Smith
August 25th, 2011
4:52 pm
You’re 100% right, Kyle.
As for these fascist socialist out of power loser DEMwits who constantly come onto your blog and try vainly to discredit you… piff!
Goodnight.
Viet Vet
August 25th, 2011
5:12 pm
Michael H. Smith,
RE your comment at 4:52 pm, and mine at 6:59 am – for the most fact free, insult only post, you are now officially the winner of the lamest rebuttal of the blog. I thank you and “indendent voter” thanks you.
yuzeyurbrane
August 25th, 2011
5:45 pm
Nice Teapeople slogans. But the fact is that Georgia has for some time had one of the lowest business tax environments in the country and it has not made us immune from economic downturn. There isn’t much left to lower. And the idea of soaking the poor and middle class to pay for dwindling state services is doomed to failure because that is not where the potential revenues are. Show me proof that these ideological reverse Robin Hood policies work. You can’t because the only evidence out there is that they don’t work. Also, state tax revenues are up about 7%; sorry, Ralston but that is a lot. And yet Deal is asking all agencies for additional 2% cuts. The state’s most important job is to invest in education. That in turn becomes the best jobs engine you can have for attracting 21st century industries. The giveaways to the rich proposed in the so-called tax “reform” just enable them to stick more in their securities accounts, pay more dividends to their shareholders, or buy that 3rd vacation home. They do very little to create jobs.
Dareekia
August 25th, 2011
6:19 pm
Rather ironic that Mr. Ralston wants to be a tax reformer. I seem to remember that he has been compliance challenged with regard to his own taxes in the past.
Hillbilly D
August 25th, 2011
7:51 pm
Aquagirl and Hillbilly, I think that ANY speculation that the GOP in Georgia intended to raise taxes is completely unfounded.
I’d have to disagree with you on that. This has nothing to do with parties. I’ve lived here all my life and I’m into my second half century. Going back to my childhood, I’ve seen these schemes come and go and every one of them that is successful winds up being a tax increase, in the long run. It was that way when the Democrats controlled things and it’s that way now that the Republicans controlled things. If the Free Silver Party makes a comeback or we’re taken over by the Martian Space Alien party, I believe it would still be the same. The same group runs the Legislature that always has, they’ve just changed parties and they’d change parties again tomorrow, if they thought it would result in their staying where they are.
And to Kyle
Politicians always say “revenue neutrality” is a goal. The next time I see it come to fruition, will be the first time.
Tiberius
August 26th, 2011
12:18 am
So you’re going on “gut feel”, Hillbilly?
The key word is “intended”. Do you REALLY think that the GOP in Georgia would intentionally raise taxes? Look, I’m more than willing to chalk up their last attempt to complete and total incompetence, but you’re going to have to make some kind of fact-based case that they intended to raise taxes all along.
yuzeyurbrane
August 26th, 2011
2:46 pm
where do you geniuses intend to get the money to raise substandard Georgia education levels? or how about the increasing costs, medical and otherwise, of caring for an aging boomer population? you can’t. you have to go where the money is or you just have to doom Ga. educ. and care of seniors to a perpetual #49 (i.e. unless Mississippi wakes up, which could happen). also, doom it to a call center economy.
Voter
August 28th, 2011
10:28 am
159 counties in the State of Georgia waiting at the trough to get a free hand out with the exception of matching local funds but the money flows to many projects that are wasteful. Regional Disbursement Boards need to be formed and projects should be merited on a as needed basis in stead of wants. Georgia has more counties than Alabama and Mississipi combined which is too many!
Rod
August 29th, 2011
7:23 pm
“Revenue-neutral” tax reform designed to broaden the tax, and lower the rates, at the top, is simply wealth redistribution, Kyle. It is just that plain, and simple and you know it. But now your party apparently wants to put lipstick on that pig, by calling it a “jobs program”.
With regard to the tax reform fiasco: You didn’t need to analyze “data” provided by our universities to figure out losing your mortgage interest and tax deductions; charitable deductions, and paying new sales tax on auto repairs and service, was going to result in a big net tax increase to the middle class. All this, presumably to entice high paid executives to take jobs in Georgia, per Governor Deal’s comments in the AJC. PLEASE!!! We are all not idiots, some of us in the south, can actually read, write and even think.
T-SPLOST limits tax options for far more than 10 years | Kyle Wingfield
September 1st, 2011
5:02 am
[...] current speaker, David Ralston, says ambitious tax reform is still near the top of his agenda for 2012 — even as there will be a [...]