Redistricting spurs re-examination of Georgia’s many counties
The General Assembly’s redistricting session has reignited the issue of Milton County. The proposed maps for the state House and Senate would shift the majority in each chamber’s Fulton delegation to Republicans, many of whom want to re-carve that erstwhile county out of North Fulton.
It will be an intense debate during the next two or three years — the minimum time it would take for new districts to first be used in an election, then play a role in putting Milton County back on the map.
But as I sat through a Tuesday legislative hearing, I was also struck by Georgia’s smallest counties.
Georgia, as you may know, has 159 counties, second only to Texas. We have 180 state House seats. Yet dozens of our counties are too small to qualify for their own House district.
The average district, after the 2010 census put Georgia’s population at just less than 9.7 million, will have 53,820 people.
Only 39 of our counties are so populous. The other 120 counties together contain just one-quarter of all Georgians.
Break down the counties into thirds, and the bottom tier would have nine state representatives, the middle tier 23 — and the top tier a whopping 148.
In fact, the dozen smallest counties’ populations combined are about 3,000 people shy of the average district size.
This disparity, of course, in part reflects the extremely rapid growth of metro Atlanta relative to the rest of the state. Consider some comparisons between the least-populated counties and the state’s largest high schools in 2010:
- Seven counties had fewer people than the largest high school, Gwinnett’s Mill Creek.
- Speaking of Gwinnett, its total high school enrollment in 2010 (44,971) exceeded the total populations of 115 counties.
- The smallest county is Taliaferro in east Georgia, with 1,717 residents. There were 81 Georgia high schools with more students than that.
The trend lines suggest the gap will only grow.
But the disparity is also a vestige of Georgia’s county-unit system, which gave small, rural counties disproportionate clout in state government. That advantage — abolished in the 1960s — made it beneficial for them to exist in as many little fiefdoms as possible.
Today, this splintering gives people in those areas little — other than higher costs for maintaining separate county governments, sheriff’s departments and school systems.
The argument for merging small counties to achieve efficiencies in government costs has been obvious for a while, to no avail. But Tuesday’s hearing made me think mergers might give them better representation under the Gold Dome, too.
At the Legislature, they are tied to other small counties — proposed House District 151 in southwest Georgia comprises eight counties and part of a ninth — making it hard for their lawmakers to represent their (often competing) interests equally and adequately.
Either that, or they are tacked onto a district dominated by a much larger city or county, whose residents elect one of their own to represent them in Atlanta.
But if smaller counties were merged, they would have one unified local government, at a lower cost to taxpayers. It could set unified priorities, which could then be better represented at the state level.
What these counties’ residents lost in hyperlocal control, they might gain in powers now held by the state. If they were a bit larger, the General Assembly could contemplate transferring more authority to local control. Today, 30 counties can’t even maintain their own websites.
Before the next redistricting in 2021, lawmakers would do well not only to argue about Milton County, but to study how consolidating smaller counties might make government work better for them.
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
91 comments Add your comment
ByteMe
August 18th, 2011
6:09 am
No one in Republican leadership cares about reducing the number of counties in the state. Many in Republican leadership care desperately about sticking it to Fulton County. Once you see that, the rest becomes obvious.
I’d like to see the position of “Sheriff” (basically, the person who runs the county jail) abolished and make that function a professional position appointed by the local board (like school superintended, although the similarities are not something I wanted to bring up here
). But there’s no one in Republican leadership interested in that either.
Terry Noris
August 18th, 2011
6:13 am
Amen…eliminate the office of Sheriff. What a waste of time.
Independent Myth
August 18th, 2011
6:24 am
Kyle
For once I agree – sound thought
Eliminate Governmental Positions that are no longer needed
Consolidate Government Agency Overlap
Consolidate the Counties within the state in proportion to population and economic contribution.
Businesses and Individuals have been already doing this for some time.
jacky
August 18th, 2011
6:27 am
The state should combine three counties into one across the state, the savings in county service costs alone more than justify that. Why should there be a separate sheriff’s department every nine or ten miles to say nothing of the costs of schools, fire services, etc. all with their own directors or department chiefs. Money wasted on courthouses, county offices, etc. Combine the counties, don’t create more and waste more money. There shouldn’t be more than 50 counties in the state.
MiltonMan
August 18th, 2011
6:35 am
Republicans sticking it to Fulton County???
Yea right – Fulton has done very little for North Fulton other than have their hands in our wallets.
Fulton County only is financial stable because of the northern part of the county.
Wow
August 18th, 2011
6:53 am
It’s all the fault of Republicans and Republicans only, right? I guess Georgia was a Democrat-controlled state for 150 years while all of this happened, but it’s still the fault of the last 10 years? “Waiter? I’ll have what he’s having.”
The REALITY is, there is a state law that says Georgia can have no more than 159 counties. I think the likelihood of the re-creation of Milton County is equally as likely as county consolidation – won’t happen. Turf wars and high school football rivalries prevent any small rural counties from even think about combining. Does it make sense to consolidate? Absolutely!! Do I hope it happens? Absolutely! Will it happen? I highly doubt it.
Give me a map, a pen and 20 minutes and I could give you a state with 70 logical counties. Would save mountains of money, create better efficiency in local government and just make more sense.
Ayn Rant
August 18th, 2011
6:57 am
Too much useless government, too much politics, and too many political offices in America!
We need national government and local governments. The states and counties are superfluous. States are particularly useless: they are preposterously apportioned, and the state governments have nothing to do but follow federal rules in various mandates and joint federal/state projects. The one unique task of state government, apportionment of congressional districts and local government, is badly done by elected politicians and best done by computer.
Let’s abolish counties, relegate the state government to clerical functions that can be contracted to the lowest bidder, and clean up the national government to get America moving toward the 21st century!
NoDawgsAllowed
August 18th, 2011
7:01 am
{scratches head} If counties chose to merge (correct me if I’m wrong) then a process that would allow them to do so already exists. With that belief it seems pretty clear to me that largely they aren’t interested in doing so & it isn’t state government’s place to force them to.
Will
August 18th, 2011
7:12 am
Once the redrawn legislative districts are in place, repubicans will most likely obtain a two thirds majority in the General Assembly.
Do you think these members of the “small/less government, cost reducing” political party will then use their unstopable majority to reduce the wasteful spending and duplication of services by reducing the number of counties in Georgia?
Me neither.
I find it also telling that republicans, who rail year after year against the federal government for protecting the voter representation of minorities are now using the same protection they so despise as an excuse to brush away any alternative democrt proposal relating to redistricting.
Finally, republicans justify their partisan plan to redraw voting districts by claiming that “democrats do the same thing when they are in the majority” (they are correct).
So……republicans politicians are proving to be just as partisan and hypocritical as democrat politicians. Not much of a “news flash” there but, as a republican newspaper writer, aren’t you a little disappointed that the standard to wish republican politicians apparently wish to adhere to is no better than democrat politicans?
John
August 18th, 2011
7:16 am
I was taught that Georgia counties were set-up so a farmer could go to the county seat and return in one day on horseback. Maybe its time to rethink this.
rc35
August 18th, 2011
7:25 am
Although the argument sounds good on paper, and although there probably are too mamy counties in the big picture, there are some other considerations. There is still a place for local leadership that is sensitive to local needs. Consolidation into larger units doesn’t always lead to cost reductions; instead, elected/appointed leaders have been known to say, “Hey! I’m overseeing a larger number of people now, so I need an appropriate raise!” Next thing you know, you’re paying bigger salaries to fewer people, but at questionable savings overall.
Consolidation of services can also lead to inefficiency of understanding and information. Case in point? I live in one of those South Georgia counties, albeit one of the larger, non-metro ones. Our son got his drivers’ license just after our state “improved efficiency” by redesigning the process and making us call Atlanta to schedule his driving test down here (instead of dropping by the local office which had just been stripped of its authority to do scheduling). I called the number, waited on hold, and finally reached someone who could sign him up. When I asked her what would be involved in his driving test, she cheerfully told me that one of the criteria would be merging onto the Interstate. When I told her it was an hour to the nearest Interstate, she became “bumfuzzled” and didn’t have a clue.
That is one example of efficiency we can do without.
Van Jones
August 18th, 2011
7:29 am
All you have to do is deal with anyone in Fulton County govt and experience their complete lack of service and motivation coupled with the enormous amount of money siphoned from north Fulton and you will will come to the same conclusion. Milton county is a no-brainer that can’t happen soon enough!
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 18th, 2011
7:42 am
Of course county governments don’t want to merge. Someone loses their little fiefdom when that happens. Citizens would somehow have to demand it. That can only work by getting the state to do it.
Guy Incognito
August 18th, 2011
7:45 am
If/when Milton Co happens, how long will Dunwoody wait to join, and leave behind the waste in DeKalb?
just saying
August 18th, 2011
7:55 am
We also have far too many cities. Talk about a waste of taxes.
old timer
August 18th, 2011
8:04 am
Kyle….good idea, combining some of the smaller counties…It will never happen. The kings in those small counties love the power.
Plato
August 18th, 2011
8:10 am
Aristotle suggested that 5,000 was the optimal size for people to come together and govern themselves. Considering that only free men could vote back then, this would equate to a population of around 10,000 – 15,000. I think we would be better off with more counties based on 10,000 – 15,000 population, not fewer, larger counties. I don’t think there is any question that the bigger the government the less efficient it operates.
USMC
August 18th, 2011
8:20 am
Fulton County is bloated and inefficient. If I were living in N. Fulton, I would want to form Milton county as well.
The “Buffoons” who run Fulton County have no one to blame but themselves.
The secession of Buckhead is coming in the future; then Atlanta can stew in it’s ignorance like DETROIT.
Stonethrower
August 18th, 2011
8:21 am
Do as you must but make sure the majority of the counties stay red.
Rafe Hollister
August 18th, 2011
8:24 am
Growing up in one of these small counties and watching it shrink ever since, I think I can add something to the conversation. Yes, they can barely support themselves and the tax burden on the poor land owners is astronomical. Do they need to consolidate, Yes, definitely. The problem is driving distance. Some of these unpopulated counties are so large it takes half a day to drive to the county seat and back now. Combine three of them and some of the people would be on the road for hours to go get a license plate.
As someone said they are so small because people needed to be able to get to the countyseat by horseback. Well, the roads are not much better now. If you notice there are no interstates running from Moultrie to Bainbridge or from Statesboro to Lincolnton.
GA Faithful
August 18th, 2011
8:24 am
One of the significant facts about Ga is its counties which for the most part are named for some of our great pioneers of the past. It is not the number of counties that is the problem, it’s the politics. Ga., formerly a democratic state (bum rushed by the Reagan era), is being held hostage to Republicans whose real target is Atlanta. Both Dems and Republicans share the blame for the inadequately shaped districts. It is no secret that this redistricting has nothing to do with effectiveness of the political arena, but everything to do with class and race. I sincerely hope that with all of the greed and selfishness from both parties, a stronger more vital party arises from our great citizens (and no, not the Lipton party).
(ir)Rational
August 18th, 2011
8:26 am
I don’t understand why people would want to get rid of the Sheriff’s position. I personally would rather see the police department changed over to the Sheriff’s Department so that the person in charge is responsible (at least every few years) to the people of the county/city they serve. As it stands right now, if the police do something wrong, they are only accountable to themselves. Not sure why you seem to see that as a good thing.
As far as consolidating the counties goes, I think it is a great idea. I grew up in a small NW GA county, that currently can barely support the necessary functions of government, and only has a professional fire department because we have a state prison. Combining our county with another would serve to help us, but as all the surrounding counties are larger, they wouldn’t really gain anything by it. That is where I see the problem lying, where the larger counties are surrounding the smaller ones, and they don’t really gain anything besides more land to control.
Oh-well. Who is John Galt?
Mako
August 18th, 2011
8:38 am
Think about how much money could be saved if say we merged down to 60 counties….each county has to have courts (paid by ST), St paid defense lawyers, St funded county economic aid, etc….; reduce the overhead expense by 50 % would save somewhere close to $300 million. I only Pigs could fly…oh, that’s right they can, just ask ole’ Sonny!
double
August 18th, 2011
8:38 am
Since sheriff departments,most county,state jobs,court system run by good ole boys.You don’t seriously think consolidation.
Kennesaw Dave
August 18th, 2011
8:45 am
Need to consolidate counties, and do away with a lot of tax wasting city governments such as Kennesaw. Little local money spending kingdom builders with a known thug PD.Would not want to see states done away with because that would give the feds way to much power just when they need way way less power. Go read the Libertarian platform. They have the right idea, if they could only ever get organized and get actual candidates.
Plato
August 18th, 2011
8:47 am
Consolidating doesn’t eliminate the need. It just makes for larger, less efficient government. Break them up into smaller units and they will operate more efficiently. Getting smaller means the people have to actually do the work, not hide behind department head positions with multiple assistants and assistants to assistants.
GA Faithful
August 18th, 2011
8:55 am
Plato, that is so true. Once there is consolidation, there will be another political mess on the horizon. Redistricting is code for an upcoming war on class and who knows what else. Remember, history does repeat itself.
No artificial flavors
August 18th, 2011
8:56 am
Thank you for finally writing about this Kyle. As one that works in local government and also educates government leaders and staff throughout the state in government finance policy, I can tell you that this need for county consolidation is long overdue. The amount of money wasted throughout the state on duplication of services is staggering, particularly in the rural counties that can least afford to waste any money. Each county should have a minimum of 60,000 residents which means about 25-30,000 property tax payers or parcels at least. This, I believe is just enough of a tax base to develop a proper government that does not compete too much with it’s cities for power.
LtCol Razorback,
August 18th, 2011
8:57 am
Milton County? Georgia needs another county like Barack Obama needs to be re-elected!
The logic that created so many small counties throughout Georgia was fine for the time when the criteria for what a county should be were created. Back then, cars, or almost any self-propelled vehicle, were science fiction. Therefore the criterion that “No man should be more than one day’s mule ride away from justice.” made some sense. But since that criterion didn’t anticipate the advent of the automobile, in today’s world it no longer does. What Georgia needs is LESS counties, not more of them! If there is to be a Milton County, then dividing Fulton County’s northern section from its southern section and calling the northern section Milton County is ridiculous. Divide Fulton, but combine north Fulton with Forsyth to create Milton. While you’re at it some other combinations are warranted, like Cook+Lanier, Baker+Miller, Dade+Walker, Rockdale+Newton, Evans+Candler, Lamar+Pike, and Peach+Bibb. Combining these smaller counties to create larger ones reduces redundant political overhead, combines resources, and creates efficiencies.
SO LET IT BE WRITTEN; SO LET IT BE DONE.
carlosgvv
August 18th, 2011
9:01 am
“might make Government work better for them”
Translation – Might ensure that more Republicans will be elected.
No artificial flavors
August 18th, 2011
9:05 am
BTW, there should also be a re-examination of small cities that claim county services as one or two of their required three services as set back in 1995 when many cities lost their incorporations. There are still too many tiny cities that only serve as fiefdoms for local families.
jconservative
August 18th, 2011
9:06 am
Nice column Kyle. But government has never been efficient and never will.
If we eliminated 59 counties there would be 59 Tax Commissioners, 59 Clerks of the Court, 59 Sheriffs, etc, etc, out of work and drawing unemployment.
As other readers have suggested, it ain’t gonna happen.
jacky
August 18th, 2011
9:11 am
I just want to ask Rafe Hollister where these huge counties are in Georgia that require hours to drive across? I have been in at least 140 of the 159 counties and I haven’t found one that took more than an hour to cross unless there was some kind of traffic jam, natural disaster, or geographic impediment such as a river that had to be detoured around. The biggest county in Georgia (Ware) is less than 1,000 square miles and can be crossed easily in less than an hour unless you drive around the Okefenokee. Consolidate down to 50 counties and get rid of all the overpaid sheriff’s, county commissioners, and other duplicated services. The savings would more than justify a little inconvenience when it is time to renew a tag which can be done by mail for $1.00.
Intown
August 18th, 2011
9:12 am
Milton County is nothing but a land, infrastructure, and tax base grab. The proposed boundaries grossly exceed historic Milton County’s boundary lines to grab Sandy Springs. Greedy Milton proponents have their eyes on infrastructure subsidized by city residents (including Buckhead residents like Kyle). Stealing is wrong even if cloaked in a thinly veiled local independence movement.
GA Faithful
August 18th, 2011
9:13 am
Carlos, that is what it’s all about. There are states in the union with far less counties than Ga, and they still cant get it right. This is a class and race issue, nothing more. Carving out a majority Republican district, like what is happening in my county has been the strategy since the Republican god was in office.
NoDawgsAllowed
August 18th, 2011
9:20 am
@ Razorback – re: “smaller counties” Since when is Bibb a “smaller county” (the 13th largest in the state)? Or for that matter, Newton & Rockdale, which if combined would become the 11th largest.
Why disenfranchise Peach residents/voters which appear to be almost evenly split D/R by dropping them into the middle of a solidly D county like Bibb (which outnumbers them more than 5-1)?
A few similarly sized counties that have similar demographics, okay maybe that I can understand _if the residents want it_. But to simply obliterate local control that citizens are willing to pay to have? That’s an abomination.
Tommy Maddox
August 18th, 2011
9:21 am
I’d agree w/jconservative above. Were Milton County to return, Atlanta would become Detroit South.
Don't Tread
August 18th, 2011
9:29 am
I don’t blame North Fulton residents for wanting their own county. The corrupt and inept county government could care less about North Fulton except to siphon money from the residents to pay for the crackheads elsewhere in the county. (same goes for Dekalb and Dunwoody)
Reality Check
August 18th, 2011
9:43 am
Does everyone realize that each county has four constitutional officers whose salaries by state taxes? The elected positions are sheriffs, probate judges, superior court clerks, and tax commissioners. In addition each county has a state-paid school superintendent and a library position.
It’s past time for consolidation of the counties. We don’t need another county draining state tax funds. We need one hundred less.
Stevie Ray
August 18th, 2011
9:43 am
The N. Fulton tax grab is no fictitious story. Those of us residing here knew before moving here that a significant portion of our property taxes go to support Grady….up to 30 miles south. Not likely (excepting possibly burn unit) any of us will actually use same. Unfortunately, the city of Atlanta and the immediate surrounding areas are primarily inhabited by non-taxpayers. Not good economic time to pull trigger on Milton.
Consolidating counties is a no-brainer. I never understood logic for the states resembling 750 piece jigsaw puzzles….those are damn difficult to complete..
amazed
August 18th, 2011
9:46 am
If you blame Republicans for acting just like Democrats, just look at their background. Almost all of them are converted Democrats. Different label, many of the same people.
Unfortunately our politicians are primarily interested in themselves, so short a serious fiscal crisis I don’t see consolidation of counties.
For those who think they are too big or just right, here are some facts:
Texas-254 counties with nearly 5 times the area of Georgia. Georgia-159 counties. Kentucky is 3rd with 120 counties. Georgia very inefficient and has a lot of silly parochial fights because it has too many governing entities. Harris County (Houston) operates much more effectively than our metro area counties and its area is bigger than Fulton, Dekalb, Gwinnet, Cobb and Clayton combined.
No artificial flavors
August 18th, 2011
9:58 am
@ amazed, I’m not sure what you are referring to whether Harris county (472.9 sq miles) or Houston County (379.8 sq miles) but neither are larger than the combined metro counties you listed that total 1,731 square miles. As for efficiency and effectiveness, I won’t argue that point compared to most of metro counties.
dixiedemons
August 18th, 2011
10:05 am
I live in Houston County and the County and City do function pretty well from and economic stand point. We don’t have alot of Boss Hoggs trying to run the show. The people are educated and have lived in other states, countries etc due to the military presence of the air base. The county is not crippled by the redneck mentality. People actually think for themselves and work together for the greater good.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 18th, 2011
10:23 am
Fulton County as currently configured is clearly gerrymandered and is totally impractical. Split it so the two parts make sense or combine those two parts with neighboring counties.
I have spoken. Make it so.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 18th, 2011
10:29 am
Unemployment claims up. Inflation up. Nice combination.
Thanks so much for the stagflation, Democrats and Obozo. You inherited a recovery and blew it.
Kyle Wingfield
August 18th, 2011
10:33 am
I think there’s some confusion as to whether, since amazed @ 9:46, people are talking about the Harris and Houston counties in Georgia or Texas…
jd
August 18th, 2011
10:45 am
Why stop with counties? Let’s merge the smaller states — re-divide existing states, especially large ones like Texas. Sell off the assets no longer needed — Hire KKR to manage the M&A activities for a fee and Goldman-Sachs to manage all funds. Use ADP to manage payroll for all 50 states… Heck, let’s just do away with government and capitulate to the corporatism which plainly runs everything anyway….
Intown
August 18th, 2011
10:48 am
It’s amazing that North Fulton residents actually believe they are subsidizing atlanta and south fulton. When the truth is quite the opposite. N. Fulton has been sucking off the City of Atlanta teet for quite some time with regards to infrastructure investments.
JPolk
August 18th, 2011
10:56 am
“Sticking to Fulton County” This is bad, right? Just want to be sure because on the surface it sounds pretty good. :p
What’s appalling are black politicians saying that the Republicans are “bleaching” Fulton County. What if a white representative said black representatives effectively “tarred” Fulton County? Blacks who don’t recognize racism amongst themselves are hypocrites.
JohnnyReb
August 18th, 2011
10:56 am
OMG!!! You Statist drive me crazy!! Go Milton.
No artificial flavors
August 18th, 2011
10:59 am
Ahh, good point about Houston Tx, Kyle.
UGA 1999
August 18th, 2011
11:06 am
I wonder if these people voted for Senator McCain??
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1bc_1313635526
GA Faithful
August 18th, 2011
11:10 am
Just as someone said earlier, these are some of the same individuals on either side of the political coin…zig-zag Zells. It doesnt matter what county is split into what county. The objective is to manipulate voting, land deals, etc.
UGA 1999
August 18th, 2011
11:29 am
Recession 2.0 coming our way soon!
Junior Samples
August 18th, 2011
11:39 am
Seen it before…
Sandy Springs was once it’s own city, then they ‘unincorporated’ because they couldn’t handle running a city on their own -asking Fulton and City of Atlanta for help. Years go by. Now it’s ‘get your hands out of our wallets’.
Fine. Whatever.
We’ll see you back in a few years. On your knees. Palms outstretched. Asking for help.
Again…
Hillbilly D
August 18th, 2011
11:42 am
Today, this splintering gives people in those areas little — other than higher costs for maintaining separate county governments, sheriff’s departments and school systems.
This is a common argument but I believe a mistaken one. If you combine two counties, you’ll have one sheriff’s department, etc, but it will still be as big as when it was 2 counties. Same number of cars, same number of deputies, etc. The sheriff will probably see an increase in salary because he has “more responsibility”.
But if smaller counties were merged, they would have one unified local government, at a lower cost to taxpayers. It could set unified priorities, which could then be better represented at the state level.
As a resident of a small county, I like the fact that when I need to conduct business with the county, I’m dealing with somebody that I know and who knows me, rather than a total stranger. If counties were consolidated, I would also probably be 25 miles from the court house, rather than 10.
I doubt the “lower cost to taxpayers” would ever materialize. In my opinion, the only real change that would come from consolidating counties, in rural Georgia, is that it would move government a little father away from the people. Do we really want to do that?
UGA 1999
August 18th, 2011
11:46 am
One of these things is not like the others….one of these things just doesn’t belong.
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/thousands-jam-atlanta-job-1119986.html?bigName=&bigPhotog=&bigCap=A+job+fair+at+Atlanta+Technical+College+sponsored+by+the+Congressional+Black+Caucus+drew+long+lines+on+Thursday.&bigDeclCap=&bigCred=&bigUrl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ajc.com%2fmultimedia%2fdynamic%2f01088%2fjobfair1_1088626c.jpg&superSizeImage=y
luangtom
August 18th, 2011
11:49 am
Do not eliminate the positions of Sheriff in counties to save money. It is the highest elected law enforcement official in the land. He or she answer to the voters, not the entity that appointed them, as proposed by many. Look at how political the Chief of Police position is in Atlanta and other larger communities. They are political-lackeys of the commission or board that appoints them. They do not answer to voters, they answer to a board that put them there for political purposes.
As to if there should be a Milton County, one needs to ask if Fulton County is run efficiently and in the best interest of all citizens. The loss of tax-base for one county to the benefit of creating another also needs to be addressed. Is this a viable solution or not? Is Milton going to be able to support itself in the future or will they need to be subsidized or risk falling into the very same predicament that abolished them in the first place decades ago? All are interesting questions and will not be rectified in any discussion on a forum.
carlosgvv
August 18th, 2011
11:56 am
UGA 1999 11:06
The people attending the dogfights are the ones who voted for McCain.
Hillbilly D
August 18th, 2011
11:58 am
I have no dog in the Fulton/Milton fight but it’s worth noting that both are very different places than they were in 1932.
Jefferson
August 18th, 2011
11:59 am
So if consolidation is so good, no need to bow down the white flite that wants to be Milton Co.
We lost our way
August 18th, 2011
12:15 pm
In the next two years you will see several counties consolidate into one. The coming double dip or depression will force this move. Also to the comments about the courthouse would be to far to drive; the new county can set up satillite offices for Tags/Taxes and other misc. services. The State currently does this for several agenices across the state.It will happen,just a matter of time and economics.
Tea Party Hobbit
August 18th, 2011
12:16 pm
Well, the counties can’t get much more corrupt or dysfunctional then they are now, so maybe consolidation wouldn’t be such a bad idea. Ah, and how many of you realized that south Fulton was once part of DeKalb. Granted, it was back in the Marthasville days…
Hillbilly D
August 18th, 2011
12:22 pm
TEa Party Hobbit
And DeKalb was once a part of Henry.
yuzeyurbrane
August 18th, 2011
12:27 pm
I agree but doubt it will ever happen. We are more likely to add 1 county, Milton, to make it 160. While there are some good arguments for a Milton County (community of similar interests, geog. contiguity, etc.), motivation now is 100% political.
Common Sense
August 18th, 2011
12:51 pm
Recreate Milton County.
Fulton County is just too large. You could not drive from the southernmost point of Fulton County to the northernmost part, staying on county roads, in under 6 hours.
It’s an hour and a half using the interstate and cutting through other counties.
It’s an hour to the courthouse when you are called for jury duty in North Fulton.
Those in different ends of the county have different needs and concerns. All are best served by local government, not distant government.
Kyle Wingfield
August 18th, 2011
12:58 pm
NoDawgs @ 7:01: To be clear, I’m not talking about forcing them. Encouraging or incentivizing them, maybe; persuading them, yes.
Plato @ 8:10: Having a cutoff of 15,000 per county would reduce us to about 139 counties. Setting it at 10,000 would mean about 150.
But, speaking more broadly, I don’t know that a particular cutoff is appropriate. I don’t think one size fits all on this question. When I say they should undertake a consolidation study over the next 10 years, I might be optimistic — a lot of thought would have to go into consolidation for it to yield truly better results…for some of the reasons others have noted.
The Ghost of Lester Maddox
August 18th, 2011
1:09 pm
Hee hee hee.
How charming.
Merge counties? On the day that Constitutional Officials (Sheriff, Clerk of Court, Probate Judge, Magistrate Judge, etc.) are willing to voluntarilly give up their salaries, their retirements, and their perks, then we’ll see mergers of counties.
Y’all let me know when you find one – even ONE – politician who is willing to give up their livelihood on the public payroll in the interest of efficiency.
Yeah boy.
Delvon
August 18th, 2011
1:15 pm
One alternative to creating county #160 would be to annex north Fulton into one of the other counties it abuts, e.g. Gwinnett or Forsyth.
THE "REAL" TRUTH
August 18th, 2011
1:31 pm
I was a transplant to Atlanta, as many in the region are. (I am now on the west coast). The one thing that confounded me and most of my friends for other states, was the incredibly high number of counties in GA. Further, the ridiculous amount of various municipal/county agencies. Seems like a complete waste of money and duplicative efforts. I recall traveling to work one morning on 285 heading into Vinings. There was a disabled vehicle against the median wall, just barely out of the fast lane. I immediately called 911 to get the lady in the vehicle assistance. You would think I would have been connected to either Dunwoody or Sandy Springs for assistance, nooooo, completely rerouted to Atlanta who then sent me to the other two. Incredible. We would drive and see 10 different sets of police departments. A city council for every corner. It’s too much waste. In New York, Chicago, Miami, heck even L.A., they have one department for the ENTIRE region. One Police Chief. One Fire Chief. One set of government. Like the fight is on for a more effective transit system, that would work better if there were one council instead of this gridlock between counties/municipalities. C’mon Atlanta, get with the program.
williebkind
August 18th, 2011
1:43 pm
The southern small counties are agricultural based. I do not see consolidating them would bring nothing but more state and county politicians who would want to eliminate another culture that has existed since the beginning of our great nation. Imminent domain would take more land for the use of the city dwellers while the politicians would extol that their deeds are for the good of mankind. Yeah, right! The packing of people into small areas destroys cultures and eventually civilization. From the overstacked high risers to the dark damp populated cellars come vile and disgusting habits and beliefs. No, keep your hands off my county line and stay in Atlanta with all the transplants and their self promoted NY, Ca, and Chi enlightenment. Sometimes ignorance is bliss!
Logical Dude
August 18th, 2011
2:29 pm
Kyle says ” The argument for merging small counties to achieve efficiencies in government costs has been obvious for a while, to no avail.”
well, not so obvious in the State where it actually needs to be argued. (or if it has, it has garnered now headlines in recent years).
This is one of those OBVIOUS things that would make the State reduce government size, merely by reducing the number of counties.
DUH. Thanks Kyle, good article about this.
atlmom
August 18th, 2011
3:02 pm
It’s so fascinating to me that certain states (like GA and TX) who SAY that all they want is LESS government have MUCH MORE government than most states who seem to think government is okay.
We have SO MANY counties, we can’t have any type of state plan for ANYTHING because there are so many local govts (how many areas keep becoming ‘cities’? Why? so they can add another layer of government?). I mean, look at the city, some of it in two different counties, but neither county fully within the city. It’s crazy. So we have MORE government in the end. When supposedly everyone is for ‘less’ government.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 18th, 2011
3:22 pm
Atlmom, look at the chart. Then remember to get your facts straight before embarrassing yourself.
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=32&cat=1
Legend of Len Barker
August 18th, 2011
3:38 pm
There is one county that pretty much takes an hour to traverse: top to bottom of Jefferson County. Laurens is probably a little longer as it has that nice little point at the bottom, but there isn’t a traffic light from I-16 until the caution light at Cedar Grove and a real red light doesn’t happen until you hit McRae.
As mentioned early in the comments, we had an amendment cap the number of counties at 159. We had as many as 161 (1929-31), but Milton and Campbell were both bankrupt. Peach County had been #161 and came in after a monstrous 7+-year fight.
Railroads, as much as politics, spurred county creation. Since Georgia is a pretty backwards state, the railroad didn’t take hold until the 1880s.
All these little individual counties give us great personality. Like that little smidge Crawford County has labeled on I-75. Or the tail of Dodge County that sticks out and laughs at you on 441. Or Taliaferro County, which is my great litmus test. Can you pronounce it properly? (At last check Atlanta television stations could not.)
What would you about combining those small in population counties? Clinch is a big ol county. Stewart and Randolph aren’t far behind. It would be a nightmare logistically for those residents to do anything. Especially in Fargo.
Besides, if you combine us with Cook County or Irwin with Ben Hill, you’ll have to call out the state militia.
barking frog
August 18th, 2011
4:10 pm
want to save money, just make Georgia, Metro Atlanta and let the fine City government
run the City-State and really take our country back ….
Brett Favre was once a Falcon
August 18th, 2011
4:53 pm
Legend of Len Barker, thanks for the nice history and geography lesson. I agree with your thinking. Combining some of these South Georgia counties would be equal to going to war. Rivalries have built up, and it ain’t gonna happen.
Even if it would save a ton of money.
Oh, and Taliaferro = Tolliver. I learned that in 8th Grade Georgia History. In a public school.
atlmom
August 18th, 2011
5:01 pm
lil barry bailout: I don’t understand. i never said anything about MONEY. I said something about people wanting ‘less govt.’ Doesn’t always equate. I said: there are more layers of bureaucracy here than elsewhere. When everyone’s saying: I want govt out of my life. But it’s not. There are more layers here than anywhere i’ve ever lived.
Hillbilly D
August 18th, 2011
6:17 pm
If you combine county A, B and C by folding county B and C into county A for example. Guess what happens. County A immediately needs a new, bigger courthouse, a new bigger government office complex and etc. So much for your savings.
The correct pronunciation for Taliaferro County, is “Toliver” by the way. You could write a whole book on the mangling of local place names by the Atlanta media.
Intown
August 18th, 2011
6:25 pm
If you really want Milton county, the only fair way to do the referendum is to have the entirety fo Fulton County vote on it … just like when Campbell and Milton were merged into Fulton. Everyone had to say yes to merge. Everyone should have to say yes to split. The boundaires should follow the historic boundaries since this is supposedly based on the historic Milton. This means splitting Sandy Springs between two counties. Fairly common in Georgia to have cities that span more than one county.
Hillbilly D
August 18th, 2011
6:45 pm
The original Milton County was formed from parts of Cobb, Cherokee and Forsyth (another county name that gets mispronounced by Atlanta media, of course Atlanta media mispronounces Atlanta, also) Counties. Maybe it’d be more sensible to fold it back into the original 3, rather than create Milton, again.
Did someone say ‘redistricting’ … — Peach Pundit
August 18th, 2011
8:40 pm
[...] – If didn’t do so yesterday, take some time to read through Kyle Wingfield’s excellent analysis about redistricting and Milton County. [...]
DW
August 19th, 2011
9:42 am
Merging counties makes sense to me. Alabama is a little smaller than Georgia in size, yet it has 92 less counties. If 30 counties can’t even maintain their own websites, what other services are they falling short on?
Engineer
August 19th, 2011
9:52 am
I’d love to see some county consolidations here in Georgia. Here are a few I think would be interesting and I’ll even start with my home county:
Pierce + Brantley
Appling + Bacon
Echols + Lowndes + Lanier (Echols and Lanier have a combined population less than 1/10th the population of Lowndes)
Peach + Crawford
Miller + Early
Decatur + Seminole
Baker + Mitchell
Randolph + Clay + Quitman
Terrel + Lee (I would add Dougherty, but folks in Lee would never allow that to happen)
Stewart + Webster
Schley + Marion or Sumter + Schley
Macon + Taylor
Evans + Tattnall
Toombs + Montgomery
Wheeler + Telfair
Bacon + Appling
Rabun + Towns
Dade + Walker
Dooly + Crisp
Pulaski + Wilcox
Coffee + Atkinson
Cook + Berrien
Thomas + Brooks
Ben Hill + Irwin
Tift + Turner
Alternate combos that could work but I’m not including in the main list.
Ware + Charlton + Clinch (the new Georgia House districts would support this)
Ware + Pierce + Brantley (economically, they are already joined together and Waycross is their economic hub, although splitting Brantley east of the Satilla River and giving that to Glynn might also make some sense)
Ware + Charlton
Ware + Clinch
McIntosh + Long
Wayne + Long
And without much effort other than just looking at a map of Georgia, there are 40+ counties that could be about half that many. The main problem (other than the obvious personal power battles) would be choosing a county seat and deciding which county name is kept.
amazed
August 19th, 2011
12:09 pm
No artificial flavors-sorry for the confusion
I was referring to Houston and Harris County Texas contrasting that with Georgia’s tiny counties.
amazed
August 19th, 2011
12:36 pm
@altmom-Texas counties are about 3 times the size of Georgia counties and their center cities are a lot bigger. School districts are a different issue which would probably be the biggest fight in merging counties here.
The city issues here are beyond absurd. Gwinnet County and the cities suing each other over taxes? If that’s not a dysfuntional waste of taxpayer money, I don’t know what is. We had Sandy Springs and still have large urban areas in Dekalb County that are unincorporated. Dekalb County (a county that can’t decide whether it is a city or county) is suing its own planning commission over a re-platting decision. Dekalb and its cities are suing each other over sales taxes and park land. You couldn’t make up this sort of stuff. Its just SO unbelievable.
Politicians seriously argue that Fulton is too big geographically when nearly every other state in the country has larger counties. Georgia needs to look at how other states do things Instead of the tendency to try to re-invent the wheel and coming up with a triangular shape.
Billingeorgia
August 19th, 2011
5:27 pm
I wish they would triple the house and senate seats. Then nothing would get done, which is a sight better than what is being done.
truth
August 20th, 2011
12:45 pm
As a former County Commission Chairman of one of the small South GA counties that cannot afford to exist, I can say with knowledge and certainty this idea is long past overdue. I stated this need when I was Chairman. Didn’t make me very popular! Satellite offices for tags and taxes, etc will work. Engineer’s suggestions in an earlier post are interesting and plausible.
Randolph Phillips
August 20th, 2011
5:23 pm
When I was a freshman in the Georgia House, I was given advice by a veteran Representative. “Randy, if you think of a real good question no one has asked, just be quiet and wait. Some other damn fool will ask it for you.” I thought of that advice when I read this column by Mr. Wingfield, a self-stlyed “30 something conservative”.
Every once in a while, someone starts talking about “Georgia has too many counties”. It’s like they all have this bright idea, and make the same arguments this guy does. He does have an unusual twist to his pitch. He seems to indicate that no county should be smaller than the numbers it takes to equal 1 Representative. Does that mean we should decide o the number of counties after each census? Sounds like it.
Actually there is a process in the Constitution which allows–but does not require– counties to consolidate if they want to do so for whatever reason, and a handful might be better off if they did. But since Mr. Wingfield mentions the recreation of Milton County, I suggest he might have an ulterior motive.
The Georgia Constitution limits the number of counties to 159, and we are at the limit. So until the Constitution is changed to allow for at least one more county (160) or two counties agree to merge, Milton County cannot be reconstituted. Actually, I think Georgians and our legislature would agree to that amendment. Milton County should be revived. But unless that option is taken, then two counties must agree to merge, and make room for Milton. I suggest a pac be formed to raise money and find two small counties adjoining each other in South Georgia and reward them with money for merging. You know, a few million dollars toward some new county facilities, the schools, etc. can persuade people.
As for your very pracitical, altrusitic, economy in government arguments, Mr. Wingfield, we’ve heard them all before. Over and Over again.
amazed
August 20th, 2011
9:46 pm
So are you saying politics will never allow practical, economical ideas to happen?
South GA Guy
August 22nd, 2011
11:09 am
I grew up in South Georgia then moved to Atlanta for a almost a decade with a stop off in Athens for a degree. I moved back home several years ago. I have lived in each “Georgia” and appreciate both. Real simple to have small county and city consolidation. Give them a timeline to rotate out elected officials and career employees, allow for little over staffing in the beginning to keep people off unemployment, and last “pay them”. Will not make everyone happy, but a good compromise. Metro Atlanta folk need to remember this will be handling careers of good people. No different from moving state government departments from downtown Atlanta to Conyers, Athens and Forsyth in the past decade. The “payoff” could be in the form of updating aging water and sewer systems, and installing new internet communications and solar power fields that could make the state a green energy provider.