Debt-ceiling deal: An incremental but indisputable win for GOP
The details are still rolling in, and probably will be for the better part of Monday. But based on what we know now, House Republicans drove the harder bargain on the debt-ceiling deal. (See the White House’s talking points here and Speaker John Boehner’s, via Hot Air, here — and note right off the bat a discrepancy in how they’re describing the stages in which the ceiling will rise.)
There was a lot of hand-wringing over the past couple of weeks that the federal government might default. For the most part, I think it was overblown. And that’s not just because a failure to reach a deal probably would have resulted in something more akin to a partial government shutdown than an actual default. I just don’t think there were enough members of Congress prepared to take the chance of finding out exactly how that result would have played out. (Here, a knock-on-wood acknowledgment the House and Senate rank and file still have to ratify this deal struck by their leaders.) Nor do I think President Obama was really going to veto any bill that actually came to his desk.
All that said, the bill that’s poised to arrive at the Oval Office looks a heckuva lot more like what the House GOP demanded than the clean bill Obama first requested, or the “balanced [read: tax-laden] approach” he later championed.
It doesn’t give him the entire debt-ceiling increase in one fell swoop, just an initial increase and a framework for further ones. This won’t be the last we hear of the debt ceiling during his presidency.
Each increase in the debt ceiling must be accompanied by dollar-for-dollar cuts, as Boehner insisted at the beginning of these negotiations. Yes, the 10-year time frame for the cuts looks wimpy compared to the immediacy of the new borrowing authority, but that’s all the more reason why it was silly for Democrats to object to Boehner’s requirement all along.
It doesn’t envision any tax increases. While there will be a bipartisan joint committee of Congress to recommend further measures, some of which in theory could be tax increases, it’s very unlikely to produce anything that goes beyond returning to Clinton-era tax rates because of the way those measures must be scored. And even returning to those tax rates will be the subject of continuing, intense debate between now and November 2012 (and probably afterward, too).
It does include the threat of steep defense cuts — but the cuts on that side of the ledger reportedly could include reductions to foreign aid and homeland security. So, there’s still some wiggle room for hawks even as some kind of further cuts are reinforced.
It includes a vote on a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. That vote will probably fail in the Senate, but it’s interesting that the vote must come between Oct. 1 and Dec. 31, with the joint committee’s recommendations due by Nov. 23. If the recommendations are unpopular, could there be a push for the BBA in their place? Probably not, but the time frame here is intriguing.
Are there flaws in the agreement? Of course. I’ve already mentioned the differences in time frames between the new borrowing authority and the spending cuts. Describing the cuts as “cuts” is also somewhat inaccurate: We’re really talking about reductions from the Congressional Budget Office’s baseline, which means we’re talking about smaller future spending increases rather than actual cuts. (Another reason all the Democratic howling about painful cuts was ridiculous.) And it’s always possible that Congress will find a way to punt rather than follow through on the bulk of this deal.
In the end, however, it’s pretty clear that the compromise went like this: The president gets more borrowing authority; the House gets some further momentum toward cutting spending, which originally seemed unlikely to come from the debt-ceiling debate; and the Senate put the brakes on what the House wanted just a bit.
I won’t presume to tell liberals how to interpret this deal. My guess: They’ll just try to claim victory for preventing the wild-eyed tea partyers in the House from sending the country into financial oblivion, rather than trying to justify the deal itself.
But, assuming there are no less-satisfactory details to emerge, I think conservatives ought to accept the deal as the best that could be expected given the current distribution of power in Washington — and as motivation to keep the pressure on lawmakers going forward.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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112 comments Add your comment
WAW
July 31st, 2011
11:37 pm
Bull Crap! The next Republican President who faces a Democrat Controlled Congress (and there be one) will be grateful to Obama. President Obama will be welcomed into the Former President’s Alumni Club for protecting the Executive Branch from a House of Representatives gone wild. A win? He made them look like the fools they are.
Rebecca s Bruner
July 31st, 2011
11:43 pm
This economy since the real-estate boom fell almost put this countrty in soup lines. We have to work the best economic deals. I’m glad we have both parties negotiating and the presidents economists figuring this mess out. May they all work together and slowly pull us all out of this devastating economic crisis.
Johnny
July 31st, 2011
11:53 pm
Nice piece Kyle, but I believe Krugman nails it for me at http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/opinion/the-president-surrenders-on-debt-ceiling.html
Jeff
August 1st, 2011
12:11 am
What are WAW at 11:37 and Rebecca at 11:43 smoking?
“Devasting economic crisis?” I see it as simply trimming the fat and trying to get our economy back in line to what is SHOULD have been the last 20 years. The causes of the problems in our economy have been a free-spending government and a citizen base that follows that example.
We have FAR too many middle-management, overpaid, unnecessary jobs rolling around in this country. Too many people are either not in the best position that suits their skills or not in the field they SHOULD be in, because everybody is chasing the almighty dollar. Rather than take a $38,000 a year job that really suits their strengths, a job that they would enjoy and a position where they could follow a passion, they wind up very unhappy in a $65,000 a year management position. And you know what? They find out too late that money can’t buy happiness.
And the REASON they keep such jobs is the “keeping up with the Jonses” approach to life that we’ve all taken. We have bitten into the apple and we actually BELIEVE the notion that money makes us happy, we have to have ALL the new shiny things in life, and to DO that, we have to live on credit. And our shining example of this flawed behavior? Why, our government, of course.
The people I know who are the happiest and most satisifed are the ones who are following their passion and doing what they love… even if it’s less than they could make elsewhere. And many of my family and friends have lost their jobs (myself included), but we don’t look at it as gloom and doom… we see it as an opportunity (you know, the whole “When God closes a door, he opens a window” mentality).
My point? WAW needs to realize that Obama is just like any other liberal Democrat — he believes in tax-and-spend and and an ENDLESS supply of money, via your (and my) tax dollars, money that the left can then “redistribute” as they see fit. There are a thousand golden calves to the liberals, and NOTHING can EVER be cut without the resulting howling that Wingfield talked about.
And Rebecca, I don’t know that you’re hearing, but the “President’s economists” haven’t done jack schlit with this mess. The “best economic deal” that you speak of is this: Washington, you HAVE TO LIVE ON A BUDGET. Money doesn’t grow on trees, so dammit, live with a BALANCED BUDGET. My family has to do it, my neighbor has to do it, my parents have to do it, my best friend has to do it… why can we NOT expect the same from our federal government???
The “devastating economic crisis” that Rebecca speaks of is largely media driven and hyped by the liberals as reasons they need to control more of our money… you know, “for our own good.” They fail to see the MANY success stories in our nation… people who have fundamentally changed their lives after a layoff or family emergency, people who have paid off tens of thousands of dollars of debt, people who have thrived on one income or job changes, and people who have learned to live within their means and NOT on credit.
Our nation’s government sees itself as an example-setter… well, they can sit their fat arses in the back of the bus and let us, the CITIZENS, lead the way and set the example. Balance your friggin’ checkbook, don’t promise entitlements to everyone, and tighten the belt and make some tough decisions… in a nutshell, be a LEADER, dammit.
We can’t support more and more people getting entitlements and living on the government dime while there are fewer of us paying into it. We need to REDUCE our federal government, DEMAND accountability, and EXPECT fundamental changes in the size, scope, and role of our federal government. And, put very simply, that means LESS spending and MORE self-control and adhering to some basic economic PRINCIPLES at all costs… namely, we can’t tax-and-spend like we have for the last 50 or 60 years because that will collapse our nation within the next century.
This is just the first step, people. The silent majority is slowly but surely putting it’s stamp on our nation… the prudent, wise, intelligent masses are starting to flex their muscle. The days of liberals like the Clintons and Gores and Kerrys and Reids and Pelosis and Obamas careening around our nation spending our money foolishly are OVER. We are about to see the term “government FOR the people and BY the people” really come into focus.
Let’s watch the next 10 to 15 years… it’s going to be an exciting time as those of us Constitutional Patriots slowly take back our nation from the progressive socialists that have poisoned us since the 1960s. God bless America, and keep fighting the good fight, people!
P.S. I have lost my job three times in the last 15 years… all during Democratic presidencies. But unlike some who choose to whine and complain and demand that the government “do something” about my problem, I have chosen to work hard to bounce back and get on my own two feet. Thanks to my wife’s wonderful planning and financial smarts, we have not gone bankrupt after last year’s job loss. In fact, we are thriving and paying down debt… we just had to cut back a little and be more prudent with our finances. See, we don’t have a “debt ceiling” to raise… we have to live within our means, and when our income changes, our means change. We learned that… so why can’t Washington? This aside was just included so that some of you don’t accuse me of being a rich, $150,000 per year CEO or anything.
Ron
August 1st, 2011
12:52 am
We do need a balanced budget, but not at the expense of the working class. Its time the rich pay their share. The tax loop holes need to be eliminated and instead of leaning on small businesses that are struggling get big business to pay up.
MIKE VALDEEZ
August 1st, 2011
12:54 am
It’s pretty obvious that the GOP LOVES corporate welfare. They want to continue to allow the 96% of Americans who make under 250,000 to be slaves to corporate America while the 4% of American “fat cats” live the lifestyle of the rich and famous. What would Jesus say, you “religious” Republicans?
Republicans: you won’t be able to take money with you when you’re sixfeet under! How hypocritical: so many Republicans claim to be “religious,” yet the cardinal sin of all, greed, is part of their life.
Republicans want cuts to the elderly, seniors on Medicare, Social Security beneficiaries, YET THEY REFUSE TO RAISE TAXES on Paris Hilton, Tom Cruise & Oprah and wealthy rappers and movie stars. Republicans refuse to end the 4 billion a year Oil Subsidies even though President Obama has said they NEED to end. They also REFUSE to raise taxes on wealthy Wall Street brokers, bankers and billionaires and those making money from the middle class/ working class poor which are ALREADY worked to death.
The Republican Party is dying. Republicans, by in large, are ANTI-gay, ANTI-poor, ANTI-minority, and anti anything who isn’t Rich, White, or Wealthy. The younger generation doesn’t like that obese, balding, filthy-rich, racist buffoon: Rush Limbaugh, nor do they like the “bimbo” from Alaska who QUIT on the people of Alaska to chase millions at FLAWED NEWS (Fox News). She’s intellectually deficient along with Newt, Trump, Huckabee, McCain et al.
Finally…a newsflash to Republicans: Republicans’ approval rating is MUCH LOWER than Democrats and much much lower the President Obama. Republicans should visit Sarah Palin’s page and worship their big-boobed bimbo goddess there…yes the one who QUIT 2 years into her governorship in Alaska to chase millions at FLAWED (Fox) News. OooH how presidential Sarah Palin! *rolls eyes*
MIKE VALDEEZ
August 1st, 2011
12:59 am
Enter your comments hereIt’s pretty obvious that the GOP LOVES corporate welfare. They want to continue to allow the 96% of Americans who make under 250,000 to be slaves to corporate America while the 4% of American “fat cats” live the lifestyle of the rich and famous. What would Jesus say, you “religious” Republicans?
Republicans: you won’t be able to take money with you when you’re sixfeet under! How hypocritical: so many Republicans claim to be “religious,” yet the cardinal sin of all, greed, is part of their life.
Republicans want cuts to the elderly, seniors on Medicare, Social Security beneficiaries, YET THEY REFUSE TO RAISE TAXES on Paris Hilton, Tom Cruise & Oprah and wealthy rappers and movie stars. Republicans refuse to end the 4 billion a year Oil Subsidies even though President Obama has said they NEED to end. They also REFUSE to raise taxes on wealthy Wall Street brokers, bankers and billionaires and those making money from the middle class/ working class poor which are ALREADY worked to death.
The Republican Party is dying. Republicans, by in large, are ANTI-gay, ANTI-poor, ANTI-minority, and anti anything who isn’t Rich, White, or Wealthy. The younger generation doesn’t like that obese, balding, filthy-rich, racist buffoon: Rush Limbaugh, nor do they like the “bimbo” from Alaska who QUIT on the people of Alaska to chase millions at FLAWED NEWS (Fox News). She’s intellectually deficient along with Newt, Trump, Huckabee, McCain et al.
Finally…a newsflash to Republicans: Republicans’ approval rating is MUCH LOWER than Democrats and much much lower the President Obama. Republicans should visit Sarah Palin’s page and worship their big-boobed bimbo goddess there…yes the one who QUIT 2 years into her governorship in Alaska to chase millions at FLAWED (Fox) News. OooH how presidential Sarah Palin! *rolls eyes*
Youngfrizz
August 1st, 2011
1:06 am
The debt ceiling is a sideshow!!! Raising the debt ceiling is a shortsighted measure- it rewards the poor judgment of our government and continues us down a reckless path of spending; this tells me these politicians don’t want to tackle the real issues and default is still eminent folks!! We need to pull out of the 6 countries we have military operations in, stop leaning so hard on China for money, make nuclear fusion a reality so our oil dependency is eliminated, and balance the budget! I made a satire discussing the recession and how failing education traps people in their socioeconomic environment. You can watch it on youtube-heres the link- America this is for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCRbk__Q3q8
Blue#2
August 1st, 2011
1:14 am
Kyle you can claim victory for the repubs all you want but ill say America won cause we didn’t default.
SantaMonicaCA
August 1st, 2011
1:45 am
Something as important is this, it sucks we can’t all vote on it. Our government has continually taxed people that don’t make a lot of money.
Stop the Loopholes, Eliminate the entire current voting system and eliminate the parties and make each persons vote count once and for all. Trim down the government, Stop Import Export with Countries that sell us crap. No more tax benefits or money for people that aren’t a US Citizens and stop taxing the Americans that have no health coverage, etc.
Ok now, let’s get to work!
don
August 1st, 2011
2:58 am
Mike “Valdez you are “right on”. You are preaching my sermon. How can you say you are a christian and moral and then oppress the poor. Jesus spoke more about the poor and oppression than he did homosexuality and abortion is not mentioned directly other than, ‘thou shall not murder. The church is hypocritical and they , republicans mainly, will find themselves without any benefits when they retire. Social security will be gone. Medicare will be gone. Jobs will continue to be outsourced. The american dream will be gone , if not already. I think it is Greed is a sin. The love of money is the root of all evil. How does the love of God dwell in you when you won’t sacrifice a dime and want the majority of america -98 % to be the sacrificial lamb. Hogwash ! Baloney ! You got it all wrong. These filthy rich ministries will be cut off at the root. The people’s eyes will be open to the deception you preach. Lies like Jesus was rich. No, he traveled house to house – never owned anything other than the clothes on his back and a pair of sandals Your lies are going to be exposed !
don
August 1st, 2011
3:13 am
As for Obama, he caved in. He has no backbone. The tea party didn’t get all they wanted – the balanced budget and all , which would be devastating to the economy now -that;’s goood, but obama conceded. He didn’t protect medicare.He got scared at the last minute.Clinton would have stood up to these bullies. They wouldn’t have done him like they did obama. He didn’t get one lump debt ceiling increase and what he got carries limitations. The market won’t have any surety Yes, we need to cut back on gov spending , but mostly we need strict meausures to create jobs. Don’t give tax breaks to the wealthy who don’t create jobs. Don’t allow businesses to build overseas than import their products back into the US.
marko
August 1st, 2011
5:39 am
The Bush tax cuts should’ve been paid for with spending cuts when they were created. instead we got tax cuts, unfunded wars, unfunded drug plans and unfunded departments of homeland security. All the the while our hard working job creators (Republican for rich people) have been enthusiastically creating jobs. Maybe someday they’ll actually get around to creating jobs here in America. Sounds like the same old voodoo the GOP does so well. Now that the unemployment benefits are ending, those lazy unemployed people will have to get off their useless butts and take any one of the high paying jobs they’ve refused while they were living it up on unemployment. May I suggest south Georgia. I hear they need peach pickers real bad.
Lil' Barry Bailout
August 1st, 2011
5:42 am
Ron: Its time the rich pay their share.
—————————
Interesting. A lib thinks the rich should pay less.
Perhaps Ron is feeling guilty about the rich paying most of his share along with their own.
Road Scholar
August 1st, 2011
5:42 am
Blue No 2: Right on! When will both sides , esp the Repubs learn to legislate for all Americans and address their needs?
Kyle: You wanted more ? You don’t eat a whale all at one time…you take bites!
don: President Obama didn’t cave in…it’s called compromise! And you contend that Clinton got everything he wanted. He knew also how to compromise and get er done!
Lil' Barry Bailout
August 1st, 2011
5:51 am
“We need strict meausures to create jobs. Don’t give tax breaks to the wealthy who don’t create jobs. Don’t allow businesses to build overseas than import their products back into the US.”
——————————–
We’ve tried isolationism before and it’s a proven failure.
Finally Compromise!
August 1st, 2011
5:55 am
Good news – finally all three compromised to reach a deal. Although the Balanced Budget Consititution Amendment was probably a red herring to get Tea Partiers on board with the Republican Party.
Still both parties took the easy way out – no Social Security or Medicare Reform. There is a lot more work to do and pain to share.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
5:57 am
This is a good down payment on getting to budget balance. We need to continue cutting spending back to pre-Obozo levels. We also need to get the business-bashing Idiot Messiah and his hyperactive regulators out of the way and take back our economy so that growth and tax revenues can rise.
GB
August 1st, 2011
6:24 am
‘Describing the cuts as “cuts” is also somewhat inaccurate:’
This description is more than somewhat inaccurate, it is a damnable lie. Spending is going up. Every politician calls this “cuts” and most journalists let them get away with it.
cup o' joe
August 1st, 2011
6:32 am
what would jesus cut?
DeborahinAthens
August 1st, 2011
6:35 am
Read the charts in Sunday’s AJC. Look at the explosion in the deficit under the Republican’s anointed one, George W. Bush. Six point one TRILLION dollars. And what is so sad is that you sad, uneducated people think that the two unfunded wars, the massive debt from the Medicare Part D, which he lied about, had to be paid for by President Obama’s administration. Those bills didn’t disa
dcb
August 1st, 2011
6:57 am
Shame that we have to talk about whether this federal debt crisis resolve is a win for one party over another – rather than for the American mainstream. It bugs me to always see whether one part of a proposed plan was a win for the Dems, or another a win for the Republicans. And then the spin put on each by the members of Congress through a more than willing news media or the President is sickening. But maybe worse of all are the comments you have to read in blogs such as this that continue to beat the drum of how this is Bush’s fault, or Clinton’s, or I even read one who inserted Carter into their rant. There have been precious few who rejected the gifts of these same Presidents and members of the Congress such as stimulus monies, entitlement programs, and the like because there is no such thing as a free lunch. But pointing fingers – for some its their sport evidently, factual basis or not notwithstanding.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
6:59 am
DeborahinAthens, Obozo made Medicare Part D even MORE generous and expensive. He also added a third “unfunded war”.
Hypocrite much?
Jefferson
August 1st, 2011
7:01 am
America goes deeper in debt and you claim victory for a political party. Your goals are shallow.
Joel Edge
August 1st, 2011
7:02 am
I got the feeling I was watching a Hollywood movie, Kyle. The correct wire gets cut to defuse the bomb at the last minute.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
7:02 am
cup o’ joe: what would jesus cut?
————————-
Oh, just for starters, funding of any kind for any organization that plays any role whatsoever in murdering even one unborn child.
Ayn Rant
August 1st, 2011
7:08 am
A win for the GOP and a disaster for the all Americans! Do you people have any idea of the cuts in jobs and consumer spending that will result from cutting federal spending?
Are you naive enough to think that the private sector will finally be motivated to invest in job-creating industries when our economy has higher unemployment and lower consumer spending power?
The first round of deficit cutting should be the elimination of foolish tax loopholes like “carried interest” and the favorable treatment of “offshore” tax havens. The second round should be the elimination of foolish subsidies to oil companies and the corn/ethanol industry. The third round should be the wind down of foolish cold-war military spending.
The only long-term solution to our deficit spending and our deficit trade balance is the creation of jobs and the expansion of the tax base.
The only hope to avoid economic depression is that the spending cuts may not be made until after the 2012 elections, when a new Congress can void the “agreement” reached by loony Republicans and weak-kneed Democrats, before our economy is devastated.
cup o' joe
August 1st, 2011
7:09 am
lil blowhard,
jesus luvs u everyone else thinks your a a-hole…..
Jefferson
August 1st, 2011
7:10 am
Taxpayers will continue to pay interest on debt until revenues are increased to support the spending levels and debt payments, nothing has really changed now has it. More interest payments and talk, as usual. I thought they would raise the credit line and they did, I just thought they were serious about getting out of debt, they are not. Cheer, by a round for the house.
Hacking, It's not just for Political Pundits any more
August 1st, 2011
7:11 am
Man! It sure feels good just knowing that we were able to stop those bloodshot eyed tea partyers and put them to bed for a good night’s sleep, finally! You agree with that, don’t you Kyle.
BW
August 1st, 2011
7:12 am
We all know a balanced budget amendment wouldn’t be passed even if all three branches of government are controlled by the Republicans. My guess is that if Obama isn’t re-elected all of sudden companies don’t seem to have any more issues with burdensome regulations (the only one I’ve seen in writing is potential requiring future homeowners put down a full 20%) or “reckless spending”. As you put it Kyle this only potentially slows the increase in spending but does nothing to actually lower spending year over year. 2012 will be a choice between ideologies and the key battleground states which just elected Republican governors will be a bellwether on the popularity of those policies. I’m the first to admit that Obama could have handled the stimulus, healthcare, and the debt ceiling fights much better but the choice on the second Tuesday in November will not be Generic R.
Mad Max
August 1st, 2011
7:13 am
My. my. The left is out in force this morning spewing their venom. Meaqnwhile did anyone notice the unemployment figures in DC. Seems like they are almost immune from the recession. Ever wonder why? Possibly because even this “victory” for the GOP calls for increased spending from DC which means our tax money is going to help keep DC insulated from the rest of us. If the economy doesn’t get better, we will continue to spend well over 1 trillion dollars a year than we take in which will add another 10-15 trillion to the 14.3 debt we have. Will someone from the left explain to me how they plan to pay for this debt. Eventually, you have to stop deficit spending or else all the beloved programs will fall as more and more of our tax dollars go to servicing the debt. Think of what our situation would be if we didn’t have that debt. We wouldn’t be arguing over raising taxes or cutting programs because there would be more than enough revenue to do sensible things.
Jezel
August 1st, 2011
7:13 am
DeborahinAthens….you made a great point. Why do people forget things like this? The wars and the bailouts are the main reason we are busted. Social security would have taken care of itself had the fund not been dipped into years ago.
If our government would attack the greed of the health care industry like they attack our enemies overseas,,,we would not need medicare or medicaid. If the laws of supply and demand were applied to the medical profession, the insurance companies and the drug companies…we could all afford health insurance.
It is not a Democratic or Republican issue as much as it is an issue of a little common sense. Unfortunately our country lacks a sense of history and there seems to be very little national conscience.
Del
August 1st, 2011
7:19 am
Well the New York Times and left wing water carrier Stoogeman, I mean Krugman are bawling their eyes out, so that supports Kyles opinion that Obama and the Democrats got the shorter end of the debt deal.
Bobby
August 1st, 2011
7:20 am
It may be a good deal for the GOP but it’s a bad deal for the United States of America. We are truly gone with the wind as a nation.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
7:25 am
It’s really a shame that so many think that the government is the economy. That’s what the Greeks eventually came to think, too. And that’s the attitude of losers who can’t cut it in the real economy.
Hacking, It's not just for Political Pundits any more
August 1st, 2011
7:30 am
I think Lil BB has found himself a home. Good for You, Lil BB. Good For You.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
7:30 am
“If the laws of supply and demand were applied to the medical profession, the insurance companies and the drug companies…we could all afford health insurance.”
———————-
You do understand that these “laws” that you speak of are not passed by Congress, right?
Tell us how “attacking greed” advances the cause of letting supply and demand guide markets? “Greed” (a.k.a. the profit motive) is what causes supply and demand to come into balance.
Mad Max
August 1st, 2011
7:30 am
It’s hard to understand all of the whining. All this thing did was say that you have to slow the rate of growth of the federal government. It doesn’t stop it from growing or cause it to shrink. Somehow, it seems like people think that deficit spending is a good idea. It isn’t. That’s a fact you can take to the bank and if we don’t stop, our credit rating will go in the toilet and it won’t be because the “tea parrty” caused it. It will be because our balance sheet sucks.
awesome smurf
August 1st, 2011
7:31 am
the right-wing parasites are dancing in the asylum….
Exit Strategy
August 1st, 2011
7:34 am
Jeff
August 1st, 2011
12:11 am
And Rebecca, I don’t know that you’re hearing, but the “President’s economists” haven’t done jack schlit with this mess. The “best economic deal” that you speak of is this: Washington, you HAVE TO LIVE ON A BUDGET. Money doesn’t grow on trees, so dammit, live with a BALANCED BUDGET. My family has to do it, my neighbor has to do it, my parents have to do it, my best friend has to do it… why can we NOT expect the same from our federal government???
And therein lies the issues with the CON sheep. I seriously doubt the above is true — as if your family, your neighbor, your parents, and your best friends don’t have a credit cards, a mortgage, or car loans. If you have loans, you are not living with a balanced budget the way that you are describing. And the US Government is not a family household and running it as such is a false comparison. By cutting government spending now, and giving unfunded taxes simply causes more folks to be unemployed and we run up more debt. This is not good for our economy as the last 10 years how demonstrated.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
7:39 am
Wrong, Exit Strategy. Folks who have to continue to borrow to pay off their other credit cards eventually declare bankruptcy. That’s where the US government is. All we’ve done in this deal is slow down the rate at which we’re approaching failure. It will take a whole bunch more Tea Party and GOP wins to get us to balance.
mother teresa
August 1st, 2011
7:41 am
tax the rich, feed the poor
Mad Max
August 1st, 2011
7:43 am
Exit …Yes most people have loans, but the difference is most people don’t borrow money to pay off prior loans. Most people pay off their loans.
The only reason the feds should borrow money is to fund an unexpected threat to our nations peace. Everything else should be pay as you go.
Jefferson
August 1st, 2011
8:05 am
Someone pulled the WOOL over your eyes if you think anything other than the credit line went up. The fed will issued new debt tomorrow, and the politicians have something to talk about. Meanwhile interest payments are moneies whose opportunity costs could be tax breaks, instead will require hikes. After all the drama of weeks, the reality of the exersise is you can’t cut near the amount needed to get out of hock. If passed the accomplishment will be the credit line is extended and new debt will be issued tomorrow.
karl marx
August 1st, 2011
8:12 am
m teresa @ 0741 – from each according to his ability, to each according to their need. it worked out real nice for about 70 yrs in the ussr – check it out
Mr_B
August 1st, 2011
8:12 am
“Folks who have to continue to borrow to pay off their other credit cards eventually declare bankruptcy.” Also happens to people who won’t work longer to pay for stuff they’ve already bought. While this is probably the best that could be done now, when the TPers are history after Nov. 12; the adults can tackle the revenue problem. Yes there is a spending problem, but we still have to pay for what we already bought.
Common Sense
August 1st, 2011
8:13 am
Today we have the largest GDP in the US in our history.
Yet not one dime will be used to lower our debt over the next ten years.
if that is a victory for anyone, then we need a new game.
Karl Marx
August 1st, 2011
8:17 am
GOP win? No, a RINO win. YES. Where are the real Republicans that didn’t cave into this democratic BS.
dale in newnan
August 1st, 2011
8:24 am
Ladies and Gentlemen …..The next Jimmy Carter.
LeeH1
August 1st, 2011
8:24 am
It is like the story of Solomon in the Bible. Two woemn claimed a baby, but when he threatened to cut the child in two, one women gave up in order to save her beloved.
The Tea Party and their Republican friends wanted to destroy America’s economy in order to have a shallow victory. Rather than destroy the country’s honor, the Democrats gave in to their outrageous demand.
The Republicans would have been happy with the child cut in two. The Republicans do not love America so much as they love their money, their perks and their rich benefactors. For the Tea Party radicals, everyone else, and the country, too, can just go to Hell.
Point/Counterpoint
August 1st, 2011
8:37 am
So we have a deal that will allow us to pay the bills that we were already obligated to pay anyway. And we will get spending cuts that are so miniscule in comparison to what will be spent down the road that you will need the hubble telescope just to see them. Well, that was certainly worth all the drama and ridicule.
If this is the future of “leadership” in Washington, please do me a favor and just votew for sock puppets in the next election. Blue for DEMS and Red for GOP. At least they would be entertaiing while pretending to care about the country.
EJ Moosa
August 1st, 2011
8:41 am
My Letter to Congressman Price,
I am appalled at the compromise that will be made on the budget and debt ceiling issues before us.
Per the GDP from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, the United States has the largest economy in US History. Please reread that last statement.
Yet you and your colleagues are going to agree to a budget that pays not one dime towards reducing the debt this nation has incurred over the next ten years.
This means that every child born in 2021 will be facing not only all the debt we have accumulated so far, but an additional ten years worth to boot.
How can we look ourselves in the mirror and say this is the best we can do?
It may be the best the people in Congress can do. I assure you I will do everything I can to make sure more people are elected that actually take the debt seriously, and recognize that it is our responsibility, not the responsibility of children not yet born.
We are selling our future generations of Americans so that that our lives can be easier today.
I am embarrassed by this. You should be as well.
JDW
August 1st, 2011
8:45 am
Frankly I think Kyle and the rest have all missed the point. The Repugnicans are patting themselves on the back, per Kyle, for a “win”. What have they achieved? Here is a great take from Fareed Zakaria:
“this is a crisis that we have manufactured out of whole cloth. We have created a circumstance in which the world doubts our credibility, rating agencies are thinking of downgrading our debt and the dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency could be jeopardized.
Please understand that none of these things are happening because the United States is running deficits. There was no indication – by any metric – that the United States was having difficulty borrowing money one month ago. In fact, the world has been lending money to the United States more cheaply than ever before.
We face downgrades and investor panic not because of our deficits but because we are behaving like deadbeats, refusing to pay our bills, pouting while the bill collector waits at the door.”
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/28/the-damage-is-already-done/
Seems to me the only thing that has been “won” is to make our economy and position is the world less safe than it was before we started. Nice job folks!
Common Sense
August 1st, 2011
8:45 am
LeeH1,
Under this plan you do not sacrifice one thing. You will receive more in government services than you paid for.
Future generations will be left with the aftermath.
Don’t blame Republicans or the Tea Party. The Tea Party has only been here two years.
Blame yourself for being unwilling to provide for yourself. Blame yourself for demanding something for nothing for the majority of Americans. Not because you actually earned it. But because you can vote the entitlements to yourself.
Point/Counterpoint
August 1st, 2011
8:55 am
For anyone that thinks the last few weeks accomplished anything, try this tactic the next time you go out to eat: Order the most expensive meal on the menu, then be sure to order the wine by the bottle, make sure to order desert and offer to pay for the tables next to you. Then, when the server brings you the bill for all the charges incurred, simply inform them that you will not be paying that tab, because it has become apparent to you that you have a spending problem, and until you have reached an agreement as to how you will reign in that spending, you will not, under any circumstances, pay that bill.
I’ll be interested in the response you get.
Drew
August 1st, 2011
8:58 am
Krugman hates it and he’s always wrong, so it’s probably okay.
Junior Samples
August 1st, 2011
8:58 am
Lil Barry,
Interesting you bring up abortion as something that Jesus would cut. Now that you agree that taking a life is wrong, how do you feel about war? Is that something Jesus would fund?
carlosgvv
August 1st, 2011
9:06 am
Tea Party members of Congress are perfectly willing to let our Seniors and Military go without SS and paychecks. If these people are re-elected in 2012, then the Dumbing Down of America will take on a whole new meaning.
Check these stats
August 1st, 2011
9:22 am
Good thing we have Kyle keeping track of wins and losses. Party first, country second. The loudest patriots are usually not the most patriotic.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
9:30 am
Let’s be clear on a couple of points. First, every penny in the defense department budget is NOT spent on the defense of the United States. One could easily make a sound argument that likely only about 5% is actually spent on defense and the rest on offesive promotion of empire abroad. Military bases in most of the countries on the planet. Drones dropping bombs on innocent citizens in at least 6 countries now. Nearly 10 years of failure in 2 illegal and immoral wars. This is not defense. Nearly everything the DOD does makes us far less safe and engenders FAR MORE HATRED against us. Yes, this only further justifies their spending in their twisted logic, but the truth is the opposite.
Then there is the issue of default.
We have already had 3 serious defaults in our history. Two under democrats and one under a republican.
The first was FDR’s break from the gold standard for US citizens. Up until 1934 the government issued gold certificates as money. Any citizen could take their paper money and redeem it for gold at any time. The exchange rate was $20 per ounce (wow !). Then in 1934 he stopped this for US citizens but continued to allow it for foreign dollar and debt holders (yeah, screw you americans). Then he siezed all the gold, made owning any illegal (except for jewelry) and forced everyone to turn it in for paper. But first he revalued the gold at $35 an ounce (talking about an instant screwing). He defaulted on americans in a HUGE way and on the foreigners in a big way too.
Silver certificates were still redeemable for silver until 1968. JFK had even restarted the issuance of Silver Certs in 1963. Then Johnson stopped the redemption of these in 1968. Default number 2. You took silver and issued paper, then you kept the silver and said too bad. What a great president.
Then in 1971, after Johnson has wasted so much money on Vietnam and Medicare and following Nixon’s escalation in Vietnam, the government was clearly running out of money. The foreign debt holders were cashing in their gold certificates and gold-denominated debt faster than the government could keep up. So Nixon then told the world to shove it and closed the gold exchange window. Default number 3.
So this is not a defaut averted. This is just a continuation of default number 4 that has been going on ever since. Rather than pay back what we owe people, we just print more and more and more and more money, thus devaluing the money supply and essentially screwing our creditors. That is a default whether you wish to admit it or not.
The end is just around the corner. Extending the debt ceiling just postpones the inevitable and that is the collapse of the US dollar and the world’s house of cards economy. People like Ron Paul have been warning against this since the mid 70’s and proposing and voting for the right kind of government that could be sustained but nobody listened. They listen today.
saywhat?
August 1st, 2011
9:35 am
I have a feeling Jesus would only allow one abortion- lil borings.
MarkV
August 1st, 2011
9:38 am
Kyle,
The fallacy of your analysis is condensed into the following words: “The president gets more borrowing authority…”
It is not the President who gets borrowing authority. The government of the United States is being allowed to pay the country’s obligations, which should not even be a subject of debate by responsible people. To consider the result of the blackmail some kind of victory or loss is obscene by itself.
RGB
August 1st, 2011
9:41 am
Altering the old Virginia Slims advertisement and applying it to America’s debt situation: “You’ve come the wrong way baby.”
All actuarial assessments of our debt situation show that we are in an unsustainable situation. Liberals blast anyone who simply tries to reduce the increase in spending using words such as “draconian”. If the current plan is passed, spending will rise another $7 trillion over the next decade. If I worked for someone who gave me a $7 trillion raise I would not denounce the raise as a “draconian cut”. But such is the cult of liberal ideology.
Those who blame individuals who want to preserve Medicare and other programs by reducing spending in fact want the programs to fail. And fail they will as we press our spending foot firmly on the accelerator and attempt to defeat any braking mechanisms such as a balanced budget amendment or even simple spending discipline. Our continued reckless spending constitutes certain death for Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.
One poster demonstrated that he had no grasp of the problem when he wrote “There was no indication – by any metric – that the United States was having difficulty borrowing money one month ago.”
As long as there are checks in the check book, honey, we’re OK.
Liberals’ new theme song: “Greece is the Word”.
tiredofIT
August 1st, 2011
9:46 am
If you have personal debt you should not be allowed to vote.
Cut The Root!
August 1st, 2011
9:54 am
Abolish the Federal Reserve…the root of all debates! All of the problems America faces are just symptoms of the real cause of our demise. Cut off the root and the symptoms go away!!
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
10:01 am
tiredofIT – Seriously?? What exactly is the problem with personal debt? If you are a responsible borrower who properly uses money that is loaned to you in a voluntary exchange then you are no burden on anyone.
Now if you were advocating not being allowed to vote if you work for the government, receive a check directly from the government, work for a company that is being paid by the government then I would be fully behind your suggestion. These are folks who’s income is being funded through the involuntary taking of monies from the productive sector of society. It is in their vested interests to use the power of their votes to extract further revenue on their own behalf. Their participation in the election process is clearly self-serving and innappropriate. One might even say a bit immoral.
A simpler solution would be to massively slash government size, power, etc. and allow the free market (something we don’t actually have) to provide the services, etc. that government currently holds a monopoly on providing. In that way the funding for these companies, their employees, etc. would all come through a voluntary means in a competitive market without the corrupting influence of government or its monopoly on “legal” force and violence. That would also finally let us all decide on what WE actually want as services, etc. (I’m thinking that busting kids for lemonade stands might end up very low on the list).
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
10:03 am
Cut The Root! – Absolutely. If americans actually bothered to read about the Federal Reserve, its role in creating and facilitating the massive deficits and debts we now see, etc. they would finally realize that Islamic terrorists are NOT the greatest threat we face in america. END THE FED.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
10:16 am
http://www.usdebtclock.org
Everyone should go to this site and see truly what our government has gotten us into. Especially take note of the liabilities associated with SS, Medicare, Medicare PartD, etc. There is a link for each state as well. This is unsustainable.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( Thee Magnificent!!! Just sayin...
August 1st, 2011
10:19 am
D.C. Adults Top Alcohol Abusers in Country…
dummycrats spending like drunken sailors, just sayin…
Will
August 1st, 2011
10:24 am
Kyle:
Your line of thinking is exactly what helped to muddle this entire mess and brought out the worst in politics – you seem to more interested in republicans “winning” the mess and gaining political favor than resolving the mess.
This is not a difficult thing to understand. When republican politicians openly list their number one priority as defeating the President, why would anyone have expected republicans to have done or agreed to anything that might have been perceived as gaining favor for the President? Did any serious mind really believe the radical republican/tea party politicians would participate in resolving this matter anytime other than at the last possible moment?
If the President is defeated, let’s see if the republican president will be held to the same standards when the republican president is up against a debt ceiling issue (and only the most rabid partisan would even argue that a republican president will not be faced with this same issue).
Republican/tea party radicals can attempt to govern from “purity of thought” because they know, in the long run, they will not be held responsible for their “pure” thoughts because calmer heads will prevail in the end. I suspect many, if they actually believed they would prevail, would most likely vote differently.
It’s sort of like anti-war democrats who vote to cut off funding for wars. They know the other side will prevail but they can gain political favor with their base, much like the radical republican/tea party politicians can vote “pure”, knowing the other side will eventually prevail, and be popular with their base.
If it makes you feel politically better to worry more about who “wins” a mess like this – more power to you. Just make sure you get out of the way and let the grownups sort out your mess and eventually govern.
Granny Godzilla
August 1st, 2011
10:30 am
I’ve come to my senses. Ron Paul is the only one who has the economic, fiscal, and constitutional know-how to allow this country to heal itself by terminating it’s fatalistic imperial ambitions and returning it to the decentralized powers which reside in the states.
This is the premise the country was founded on and if you don’t like, then go jump in front of a train or throw your hair dryer into the bath water. Or just get the he!! out of the way so American individuals can get on with their lives and no longer be under siege from the slaves of the statist-nationalist leviathan.
Golden Dawg
August 1st, 2011
10:31 am
I really hope this is NOT passed. This deal will hurt our economy more than not immediately raising the debt-limit.
Tax Breaks for Millionaires and Corporate Loopholes have never led to job increases. Look at the Reagan Years and the Bush Years as CLEAR evidence. Reagan raised the debt-limit “18” times and G.W. Bush did it “7” times – WHY? To keep the economy prospering. (Someone PLEASE Counter That.)
Only Clinton’s policies eventually turned the tide and led to balanced budgets and even budget surpluses. And then Bush returned the Budget Surplus. And where did 8 Years of Bush’s economic policies lead us? Housing speculation, short-term construction-induced jobs, ultimate financial disaster and TARP and BAILOUTs.
Now PLEASE explain to me: Why Middle Class Americans should be THE ONLY ones to pay for those Right Wing Economically Disasterous Policies.
Golden Dawg
August 1st, 2011
10:36 am
Cutting middle class services WITHOUT increasing millionaires’ taxes is simple surrender. The Middle Class will be paying 100% of the cost – AGAIN. We Can Not Take Anymore.
Golden Dawg
August 1st, 2011
10:46 am
This is a very DANGEROUS PRECEDENT. AND IT IS JUST THE BEGINNING. Our government WILL be held hostage on every critical issue going forward. What are Democrats willing to surrender at the NEXT juncture?
FORCE the Right to bear responsibility for this debt-increase. Bush’s Wars drained and continue to drain our finances. Thankfully, Obama is ending both. Ten Years of Tax Breaks for Millionaires and Corporations have bled us dry and have NOT increased jobs. The only people who reaped rewards were the wealthiest Americans. We should DEMAND that Every American pay their fair share to resolve this.
The Right has PROVEN that they are willing, even eager, to destroy the economy in order to gain political points. FINALLY, Middle Class American VOTERS are seeing the Right as the “Extortionist” they are. They will be voted out in 2012. The only way for a “long term” economic recovery is to stand up for the working class NOW. Middle Class Americans cannot survive if their leaders continue to surrender to the RIGHT at the crucial moments of the battle.
Moderate Line
August 1st, 2011
11:01 am
Mad Max
August 1st, 2011
7:13 am
My. my. The left is out in force this morning spewing their venom. Meaqnwhile did anyone notice the unemployment figures in DC.
++++
Yes. The umployment in DC is 10.4% which is higher than the rest of the country. Are you refering to the DC metropolitan area which includes parts of Virginia and Maryland?
http://www.bls.gov/lau/
BlogReader
August 1st, 2011
11:11 am
Hooray! The debt ceiling agreement is a great victory for the GOP, possibly the last before the political party breaks up and goes down in flames in November 2012! Republican fickleness initiated big-time, peacetime deficit spending in the Reagan Administration, brought us to the brink of another Great Depression in the Bush II Administration, stalled economic recovery in the Obama Administration, and now plans to push the economy over the edge before the next elections.
Whatever happened to job creation? Even with ready availability of capital and labor, and the lowest interest rates in history, the American private sector is unable to create the jobs Americans need. Is anyone mad enough to think that the private sector will be stimulated by cutting the jobs and the consumer demand that the federal deficit supports? Has Congress repealed arithmetic, and replaced it with voodoo economics?
Moderate Line
August 1st, 2011
11:12 am
The loser is the American people because the debt ceiling vote is pointless. 5 years from do you think congress will feel obligated to fullfill terms of this agreement. No. Witin the last 5 years we have gone from Republican conrol of the House, Senate and the Presidency to Democratic control of the House and Senate with Republican Presidency to Democratic control of the House, Senate and Presidency and now to the Republican control of the House with Democratic control of the Senate and Presidency. All of this since 2007.
This deal will be modified by the make up of the government. Also, the pressures of reality will also start to take affect as they did in Greece and other parts of Europe. We can’t continue with tax revenue less than 15% of GDP and still fund the largest military in the world and medicare and social security.
We are currently losing $20 million in teax revenue in order to save $16 million a year in federal subsidies in the FAA authorization. The deficit went up $200 million in one week because of sheer stuborness.
JDW
August 1st, 2011
11:17 am
A bit more reality for the minions around here…
“In their passion, Republicans convinced themselves that the constitutional republic and the free-enterprise system were threatened as never before. Their response? To threaten to blow up the free-enterprise system and wreck the republic unless they gained their point.
Republicans have become so gripped by pessimism and panic that they feel they have nothing to lose by rushing into a catastrophe now. But there is a lot to lose, and in these past weeks America nearly lost it. Let’s hope that as America steps back from the brink, Republicans remember that it’s their job to protect the system, not to smash the system in hopes of building something better from the ruin”
BTW that is what a Republican thinks of the “win”…
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/01/frum.debt.republicans/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
BuckheadBill
August 1st, 2011
11:19 am
Hey Senior Valdeez, each time you click “Submit Comment” it prints your garbage. Once is too many, actually.
The Anti-Wooten
August 1st, 2011
11:48 am
I’ve seen multiple enjoinders today stating that this is a Tea Party victory but in my view it’s an example of the Teahadists winning the battle but losing the war. They have now been exposed as extremist idealogues that would prefer to hurt everyone and the nation rather than compromise. The sheep’s clothing has now been torn asunder.
real john
August 1st, 2011
12:13 pm
I still can’t figure out you Liberals? This isn’t a “win” for anytone. You do realize that we are still projected to add another $7 trillion to our already $14.3 trillion in debt over the next 7 years. $21 TRILLION. How in the H### are we supposed to pay for this????
It’s no different than someone being $50k in credit card debt and saying oh well, I’m ONLY going to add $5k in credit card debt for the next 5 years instead of 10K a year. GUESS WHAT you are still ADDING more debt.
For the liberals who like to fashion themselves as these great thinkers…it is amazing how stupid they are at basic math????
Mad Max
August 1st, 2011
12:16 pm
Moderate Line. For every chart, there is an opposite chart. I was using the chart from the AJC yesterday. Pick your source & someone will find another that supports their view. I don’t have time to read them all.
Red
August 1st, 2011
12:20 pm
In a related story: President Reagan will now be featured on the five $1trillion coins that President Obama will order the Treasury Secretary to mint this September.
It could happen.
Jimmy62
August 1st, 2011
12:21 pm
All you people whining about the GOP hates the poor… You know what? A dollar spent on charity goes a lot further to helping the poor than a dollar spent in taxes, no matter how much government sponsored welfare there is. Simple math. The government has to spend money to collect i, then waste money figuring out how to spend it, then waste more money paying off bureaucrats every step of the way, then waste more money spending it on stuff that doesn’t help anyone, before maybe 1 penny of that tax dollar helps poor people.
Conservatives give more to charity than liberals, charity does a better job helping poor people than government welfare, as well as keeping more power and control away from politicians. So if you want to help poor people, give to charity, give your time and your money, and you will actually help poor people. Complaining about taxes being too low helps no one, especially when you consider that the IRS will happily take more of your money than you owe if you send it their way. So why don’t you? Because you really only want OTHER PEOPLES’ MONEY to help poor people, not your own.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
12:27 pm
“Our government WILL be held hostage on every critical issue going forward. What are Democrats willing to surrender at the NEXT juncture?”
——
Oh noes! The Idiot Messiah and Democrat party still have to pass legislation through Congress the old fashioned way–by getting the required votes! We thought our Idiot Messiah was going to be able to rule by decree!
jconservative
August 1st, 2011
12:45 pm
Had we passed this legislation in 2009 for FY 2010, the deficit for FY 2010 would have been $1.2 trillion instead of the actual $1.3 trillion. Is this progress or what?
At this rate we will have the national debt paid off in about 7 or 8 generations.
We continue to talk about cutting spending instead of actually cutting spending. This makes 30 straight years we have done nothing about cutting spending but talk.
Yeah, I know about the 3 Clinton balanced budgets but remember, we killed one of those by mailing every taxpayer a check from the “surplus”. You do remember the “surplus”, do you not? The National Debt was $5 trillion but somewhere in all those zeros was a Golden Egg, the “surplus”.
So everybody got a share.
Truth
August 1st, 2011
12:55 pm
Repeal Obamacare asap
Balanced Budget Amendment asap
Repeal Amendment allowing Federal govt to collect income taxes and replace with Fair Tax asap
Problems Solved.
I was not a Tea Party supporter before but as of today, I am 100% for the Tea Party Why? Because I love my country and not a political party.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
12:57 pm
No one said this is the end of getting to balance. It’s just what had to be done to get beyond the debt limit. It’s progress, and you can thank the tea party for every bit of it.
It’s great to hear all the liberal support for balancing the budget!
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
1:10 pm
When the government completely rejects the 9th and 10th amendments, has destroyed the 4th amendment with the Patriot Act, the TSA, and a long list of other abuses, has seriously undermined the 1st, 2nd, and many of the others (there are even examples of quartering soldiers (well police, but what’s the real difference these days) in foreclosed homes, why would anyone believe that government will respect a balanced budget amendment??
If they wish to balance the budget they will balance the budget. Period. Neither side wishes to because they are addicted to the warfare/welfare state that buys them votes and benefits their friends in big business and big labor.
The balanced budget amendment is just another way to kick the can down the road to yet another congress.
Atlantan
August 1st, 2011
1:14 pm
@Mike Valdeez – get out of the basement and off Daily Kos. GE paid not taxes last year – Jeff Immelt (GE’s CEO) is Obama’s best bud.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
1:16 pm
If we are really going to have a discuss about the poor, consider that the inflation tax (you know, when prices go up) is being driven almost exclusively by the printing press and the Federal Reserve. In response to our excessive government spending, they are printing money to buy the bonds that nobody else wishes to buy. Additionally the Fed loaned over 9 Trillion Dollars to big financial instutions in this and foreign countries in the past 2 years. This additional money ends up back in the financial system and causes upward pressure on prices (inflation) as more money goes after the same amount of goods – supply and demand.
Inflation hurts the poor the most. If those on the left and those on the right actually cared about the poor, they would be immediately calling for an end to the Federal Reserve and an end to deficit spending.
It will mean little if the government makes sure your SS check shows up and you can barely buy a loaf of bread with it. Think it can’t happen? Look up Weimar Germany, Argentina, and Zimbawe currency crises on the internet and read for yourself what happens when a government goes out of control and printing destroys the currency.
MarkV
August 1st, 2011
1:19 pm
The Democrats should (but will not) take a page from the tea-party game book and do the following:
1. Reject the deal now on table;
2. Demand a one-page, clean debt-ceiling increase bill.
The Republicans would then have two choices:
a. Approve the bill and accept a defeat;
b. Reject the bill and receive the blame for the consequences.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
1:37 pm
MarkV, the Dems already had their chance to sabotage the country on this one. Republicans refused to allow that to happen.
Golden Dawg
August 1st, 2011
2:20 pm
Where did 8 Years of Republican economic policies lead us? Housing speculation, short-term construction-induced jobs, ultimate financial disaster and TARP and BAILOUTs.
Now PLEASE explain to me: Why Middle Class Americans should be THE ONLY ones to pay for those Right Wing Economically Disasterous Policies.
A voice of reason
August 1st, 2011
3:04 pm
You liberal fools. You could take every penny the rich make and still not make up the deficit. Wake up.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
3:47 pm
Its amazing that some actually see going $2+ Trillion more into debt is a solution to the problem.
What planet are you living on?? Instead of treating this as a republican or democratic issue, just think about what you are supporting for a moment. When will this ever end? Do you know the history of 1920’s Germany? Do you know what it looks like when hyperinflation destroys a currency? Do you honestly think THAT scenario will be better for Grandma, Grandpa, the poor, the homeless???
I don’t support the absurd proposals from the republicans. They don’t cut anywhere near enough, especially from the military budget. But somewhere this all has to stop. If you have children it is even more appalling that you would support kicking the can down the road further.
MarkV
August 1st, 2011
4:15 pm
MrLiberty @3:47 pm:
Your rage is just words, words, words, lacking any thought. “They don’t cut anywhere near enough, especially from the military budget.” What do you think the cuts, which you demand, actually mean. Those are mostly moneys that Americans will not get, and therefore will not be able to spend, making the economy even worse. Even the military budget, which I agree should be cut, is for the most part funds that eventually go to people in the US who make things for the military, and if they do not make them, they will not get paid and will not have money to spend. What should be cut in the defense budget is the funds used to keep our bases in foreign countries.
The blunder of the current bill is not that it does not cut enough, but that it not only does nothing to help the economy, it hurts it. Which probably is what the Republicans in the Congress want. The best way to reduce the debt is to make the economy stronger so that there is more money coming in, and that is not achieved by budget cuts.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
4:44 pm
And when the funds are cut to pay for foreign military bases then what happens to all the hundreds of thousands of military personnel that occupy those bases? I mean I agree that these are the military cuts that should lead the list, but the impact is the same. Every dollar that government spends is a dollar that is diverted from private sector spending. You say this will take money from americans, but it is first stolen from other americans. That needs to stop. It also diverts labor (those soldiers you are concerned about – and I am too) that could be employed by the private sector.
There has been much too much spending by government. That so many are now chronically dependent on government for their paychecks doesn’t change the fact that the money is all gone, the bills are WAY too big to continue and the situation is unsustainable. Pain will be felt, but the sooner money returns to the private, productive sector (personally I would rather see it end up in the hands/pockets of taxpayers) the sooner the recovery can begin.
It is savings, capital improvement, investment, and production that fuel an economy, not spending. You have it completely backwards, but that is the problem in this country and the economists that are entrusted with all of our money. Mises and the Austrians have it right but yet governments keep spending and spending thinking that spending is the answer. The debt must be liquidated and saving must begin again. That is the only thing that will establish the needed foundation for sustainable growth and prosperity. It is the only thing that has EVER been the foundation for this.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
4:47 pm
This is basic Austrian economics. If you wish to learn the correct way to be looking at this economic crisis, go to http://www.mises.org and read all of the free literature. These guys predicted the first Depression and correctly assessed everything that made it worse. They predicted this one too and their solutions are the right ones to get us on the right track.
roughrider
August 1st, 2011
5:42 pm
They keep talking about cuts to social security and medicare. We never hear anything about cutting the big oil subsidies , even though gas is at record prices. We also never hear about a cut in Congressional pay,staff or benefits. Same with White House staffers.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
6:12 pm
Junior Samples: Is [war] something Jesus would fund?
———————–
Perhaps not, but I would.
Jezel
August 1st, 2011
7:35 pm
Lil Barry Bailout…. Greed is the driving force of capitalism. The free market system turns this negative aspect of people into a positive force. And it is not always Congress that keeps the playing field level. The executive branch can also check businesses to prevent monopolies or oligopolies.
Any industry…if left unregulated…will destroy its competitors so that it can control the market. Government’s job is to make sure that the laws of supply and demand can work. As a result we get a better product at a lower price.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
9:31 pm
Jezel – Sorry, but your interpretion of how competition is destroyed doesn’t fit with reality. Businesses do not destroy their competitors. They may outcompete, etc. but in a truly free market so long as there is an opening, anybody may step in and compete and take market share. In our heavily regulated environment, most of the regulations actually serve to destroy competition. In fact the Interstate Commerce Commission (the first government regulatory agency) was actually created on behalf of the major railroads specifically for the purpose of driving their smaller competitors out of business. They were unable to in the generally free market but instead used the power and force of government to achieve those ends. The FDA serves the same purpose with regards to smaller medical device companies, keeping nutritional supplements from advertising claims that might hurt Big Pharma’s monopoly on drug distribution, etc.
The only monopolies that exist in our society are run by the government. Those that come close exist only because of government and its regulatory apparatus. The market gives us a better product at a lower price because of open and free competion. One only need look at the failing US steel industry (the beneficiary of hundreds if not thousands of bailouts, tarriffs against foreign steel, etc.) or the american auto industry (same tarriffs, etc.) or the pharmaceutical industry (with it constantly extending patent protections, FDA regulatory actions against competitors, etc.) to see that government involvement has done the exact opposite of what you claim. Meanwhile in the reasonably unregulated cell phone industry and computer industry the products have been getting better, cheaper, and more reliable. The evidence and history are definitely not on your side on this.
There are plenty of books that can educate you if you are willing to take the time to read them. Don’t just take the word of those who benefit from the regulations – government employees and big businessmen.
Golden Dawg
August 2nd, 2011
2:51 am
Everyone is talking, but NO ONE will even attempt to answer my question:
Again I ask: Why should Middle Class Americans be “THE ONLY” ones to pay for the disasterous results of 8 years of Republican Right Wing Economically Policies.
And … I am waiting for someone to say that the Wealthy use their taxes breaks to create jobs…
No could possibility believe that anymore … after 10 years of Bush -era tax breaks – where are the jobs?
8 Years of Republican economic policies lead us to: Housing speculation, short-term construction-induced jobs, ultimate financial disaster and TARP and BAILOUTs.
The Answer is (clear and logical): “EVERYONE” should contribute. If you cut benefits from the poor, then you should end tax breaks for the rich.
IF you Right Wing Tea Party Supporters believe that the deficit is so horrible for the economy, why not do EVERYTHING possible to reduce it.
PLEASE give me a logical, fact-based answer.
Golden Dawg
August 2nd, 2011
2:56 am
Mr. Liberty and anyone else who can help him…… That is a challenge… Please explain…
Why should Middle Class Americans be “THE ONLY” (THE ONLY) THE ONLY!!! ones to pay for the disasterous results of 8 years of Republican Right Wing Economically Policies.
Golden Dawg
August 2nd, 2011
6:29 am
Mr. Liberty and anyone else who can help him…… That is a challenge… Please explain…
Why should Middle Class Americans be “THE ONLY” (THE ONLY) THE ONLY!!! ones to pay for the disasterous results of 8 years of Republican Right Wing Economic Policies.
Jezel
August 2nd, 2011
7:18 am
Mr. Liberty…No doubt…too much regulation can kill competition. The idea is… create an economic environment that allows for competition and lower prices. We as individuals cannot create this market…that is why we have government…to do for us what we cannot do alone.
Generally speaking…the market place if left alone…will bring us good products at lower prices. When greedy individuals become too powerful and gain control of a corner of a market…just the opposite happens…poor service and high prices.
Who slowed down the Morgans, Mellons, Carneigies, Rockerfellers, Duponts,Firestones,Vanderbilts,and many more?
Proud Democrat
August 2nd, 2011
6:14 pm
Tea parties are for little girls with imaginary friends
LOU
August 3rd, 2011
7:20 pm
Yes, the Republican plan is like a businessman who is spending more than he is taking in. Just cut back production, fire employees, end advertising, and reduce expenses. Skilled businessmen look at options, do what it takes to maintain skilled workers, BORROW money to increase advertising in specific profitable areas, and adjust to various market conditions. End borrowing & you can end your corporate presence. Yes WAY TO GO REPUBLICANS… STOP BORROWING & CUT EVERYTHING!
LOU
August 3rd, 2011
7:31 pm
VOTE REPUBLICAN – Cut the poor, sick, and elderly programs.[they drain our economy]…. Support tax cuts for Billionaires, Oil Companies, and Wall Street Moguls….after all, they provide us with lobbying money! End Medicare, Medicaid, & Social Security for everyone but Us. Stop Government spending except in our districts. Finally, destroy the economy & blame it on the Dems so we get elected to help the upper class out of their slump. SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUT THIS ON A BILLBOARD
If liberals agree to balance the budget, what will they give up? | Kyle Wingfield
August 5th, 2011
6:49 pm
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