Debt-ceiling deal: An incremental but indisputable win for GOP
The details are still rolling in, and probably will be for the better part of Monday. But based on what we know now, House Republicans drove the harder bargain on the debt-ceiling deal. (See the White House’s talking points here and Speaker John Boehner’s, via Hot Air, here — and note right off the bat a discrepancy in how they’re describing the stages in which the ceiling will rise.)
There was a lot of hand-wringing over the past couple of weeks that the federal government might default. For the most part, I think it was overblown. And that’s not just because a failure to reach a deal probably would have resulted in something more akin to a partial government shutdown than an actual default. I just don’t think there were enough members of Congress prepared to take the chance of finding out exactly how that result would have played out. (Here, a knock-on-wood acknowledgment the House and Senate rank and file still have to ratify this deal struck by their leaders.) Nor do I think President Obama was really going to veto any bill that actually came to his desk.
All that said, the bill that’s poised to arrive at the Oval Office looks a heckuva lot more like what the House GOP demanded than the clean bill Obama first requested, or the “balanced [read: tax-laden] approach” he later championed.
It doesn’t give him the entire debt-ceiling increase in one fell swoop, just an initial increase and a framework for further ones. This won’t be the last we hear of the debt ceiling during his presidency.
Each increase in the debt ceiling must be accompanied by dollar-for-dollar cuts, as Boehner insisted at the beginning of these negotiations. Yes, the 10-year time frame for the cuts looks wimpy compared to the immediacy of the new borrowing authority, but that’s all the more reason why it was silly for Democrats to object to Boehner’s requirement all along.
It doesn’t envision any tax increases. While there will be a bipartisan joint committee of Congress to recommend further measures, some of which in theory could be tax increases, it’s very unlikely to produce anything that goes beyond returning to Clinton-era tax rates because of the way those measures must be scored. And even returning to those tax rates will be the subject of continuing, intense debate between now and November 2012 (and probably afterward, too).
It does include the threat of steep defense cuts — but the cuts on that side of the ledger reportedly could include reductions to foreign aid and homeland security. So, there’s still some wiggle room for hawks even as some kind of further cuts are reinforced.
It includes a vote on a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. That vote will probably fail in the Senate, but it’s interesting that the vote must come between Oct. 1 and Dec. 31, with the joint committee’s recommendations due by Nov. 23. If the recommendations are unpopular, could there be a push for the BBA in their place? Probably not, but the time frame here is intriguing.
Are there flaws in the agreement? Of course. I’ve already mentioned the differences in time frames between the new borrowing authority and the spending cuts. Describing the cuts as “cuts” is also somewhat inaccurate: We’re really talking about reductions from the Congressional Budget Office’s baseline, which means we’re talking about smaller future spending increases rather than actual cuts. (Another reason all the Democratic howling about painful cuts was ridiculous.) And it’s always possible that Congress will find a way to punt rather than follow through on the bulk of this deal.
In the end, however, it’s pretty clear that the compromise went like this: The president gets more borrowing authority; the House gets some further momentum toward cutting spending, which originally seemed unlikely to come from the debt-ceiling debate; and the Senate put the brakes on what the House wanted just a bit.
I won’t presume to tell liberals how to interpret this deal. My guess: They’ll just try to claim victory for preventing the wild-eyed tea partyers in the House from sending the country into financial oblivion, rather than trying to justify the deal itself.
But, assuming there are no less-satisfactory details to emerge, I think conservatives ought to accept the deal as the best that could be expected given the current distribution of power in Washington — and as motivation to keep the pressure on lawmakers going forward.
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
112 comments Add your comment
LeeH1
August 1st, 2011
8:24 am
It is like the story of Solomon in the Bible. Two woemn claimed a baby, but when he threatened to cut the child in two, one women gave up in order to save her beloved.
The Tea Party and their Republican friends wanted to destroy America’s economy in order to have a shallow victory. Rather than destroy the country’s honor, the Democrats gave in to their outrageous demand.
The Republicans would have been happy with the child cut in two. The Republicans do not love America so much as they love their money, their perks and their rich benefactors. For the Tea Party radicals, everyone else, and the country, too, can just go to Hell.
Point/Counterpoint
August 1st, 2011
8:37 am
So we have a deal that will allow us to pay the bills that we were already obligated to pay anyway. And we will get spending cuts that are so miniscule in comparison to what will be spent down the road that you will need the hubble telescope just to see them. Well, that was certainly worth all the drama and ridicule.
If this is the future of “leadership” in Washington, please do me a favor and just votew for sock puppets in the next election. Blue for DEMS and Red for GOP. At least they would be entertaiing while pretending to care about the country.
EJ Moosa
August 1st, 2011
8:41 am
My Letter to Congressman Price,
I am appalled at the compromise that will be made on the budget and debt ceiling issues before us.
Per the GDP from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, the United States has the largest economy in US History. Please reread that last statement.
Yet you and your colleagues are going to agree to a budget that pays not one dime towards reducing the debt this nation has incurred over the next ten years.
This means that every child born in 2021 will be facing not only all the debt we have accumulated so far, but an additional ten years worth to boot.
How can we look ourselves in the mirror and say this is the best we can do?
It may be the best the people in Congress can do. I assure you I will do everything I can to make sure more people are elected that actually take the debt seriously, and recognize that it is our responsibility, not the responsibility of children not yet born.
We are selling our future generations of Americans so that that our lives can be easier today.
I am embarrassed by this. You should be as well.
JDW
August 1st, 2011
8:45 am
Frankly I think Kyle and the rest have all missed the point. The Repugnicans are patting themselves on the back, per Kyle, for a “win”. What have they achieved? Here is a great take from Fareed Zakaria:
“this is a crisis that we have manufactured out of whole cloth. We have created a circumstance in which the world doubts our credibility, rating agencies are thinking of downgrading our debt and the dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency could be jeopardized.
Please understand that none of these things are happening because the United States is running deficits. There was no indication – by any metric – that the United States was having difficulty borrowing money one month ago. In fact, the world has been lending money to the United States more cheaply than ever before.
We face downgrades and investor panic not because of our deficits but because we are behaving like deadbeats, refusing to pay our bills, pouting while the bill collector waits at the door.”
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/28/the-damage-is-already-done/
Seems to me the only thing that has been “won” is to make our economy and position is the world less safe than it was before we started. Nice job folks!
Common Sense
August 1st, 2011
8:45 am
LeeH1,
Under this plan you do not sacrifice one thing. You will receive more in government services than you paid for.
Future generations will be left with the aftermath.
Don’t blame Republicans or the Tea Party. The Tea Party has only been here two years.
Blame yourself for being unwilling to provide for yourself. Blame yourself for demanding something for nothing for the majority of Americans. Not because you actually earned it. But because you can vote the entitlements to yourself.
Point/Counterpoint
August 1st, 2011
8:55 am
For anyone that thinks the last few weeks accomplished anything, try this tactic the next time you go out to eat: Order the most expensive meal on the menu, then be sure to order the wine by the bottle, make sure to order desert and offer to pay for the tables next to you. Then, when the server brings you the bill for all the charges incurred, simply inform them that you will not be paying that tab, because it has become apparent to you that you have a spending problem, and until you have reached an agreement as to how you will reign in that spending, you will not, under any circumstances, pay that bill.
I’ll be interested in the response you get.
Drew
August 1st, 2011
8:58 am
Krugman hates it and he’s always wrong, so it’s probably okay.
Junior Samples
August 1st, 2011
8:58 am
Lil Barry,
Interesting you bring up abortion as something that Jesus would cut. Now that you agree that taking a life is wrong, how do you feel about war? Is that something Jesus would fund?
carlosgvv
August 1st, 2011
9:06 am
Tea Party members of Congress are perfectly willing to let our Seniors and Military go without SS and paychecks. If these people are re-elected in 2012, then the Dumbing Down of America will take on a whole new meaning.
Check these stats
August 1st, 2011
9:22 am
Good thing we have Kyle keeping track of wins and losses. Party first, country second. The loudest patriots are usually not the most patriotic.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
9:30 am
Let’s be clear on a couple of points. First, every penny in the defense department budget is NOT spent on the defense of the United States. One could easily make a sound argument that likely only about 5% is actually spent on defense and the rest on offesive promotion of empire abroad. Military bases in most of the countries on the planet. Drones dropping bombs on innocent citizens in at least 6 countries now. Nearly 10 years of failure in 2 illegal and immoral wars. This is not defense. Nearly everything the DOD does makes us far less safe and engenders FAR MORE HATRED against us. Yes, this only further justifies their spending in their twisted logic, but the truth is the opposite.
Then there is the issue of default.
We have already had 3 serious defaults in our history. Two under democrats and one under a republican.
The first was FDR’s break from the gold standard for US citizens. Up until 1934 the government issued gold certificates as money. Any citizen could take their paper money and redeem it for gold at any time. The exchange rate was $20 per ounce (wow !). Then in 1934 he stopped this for US citizens but continued to allow it for foreign dollar and debt holders (yeah, screw you americans). Then he siezed all the gold, made owning any illegal (except for jewelry) and forced everyone to turn it in for paper. But first he revalued the gold at $35 an ounce (talking about an instant screwing). He defaulted on americans in a HUGE way and on the foreigners in a big way too.
Silver certificates were still redeemable for silver until 1968. JFK had even restarted the issuance of Silver Certs in 1963. Then Johnson stopped the redemption of these in 1968. Default number 2. You took silver and issued paper, then you kept the silver and said too bad. What a great president.
Then in 1971, after Johnson has wasted so much money on Vietnam and Medicare and following Nixon’s escalation in Vietnam, the government was clearly running out of money. The foreign debt holders were cashing in their gold certificates and gold-denominated debt faster than the government could keep up. So Nixon then told the world to shove it and closed the gold exchange window. Default number 3.
So this is not a defaut averted. This is just a continuation of default number 4 that has been going on ever since. Rather than pay back what we owe people, we just print more and more and more and more money, thus devaluing the money supply and essentially screwing our creditors. That is a default whether you wish to admit it or not.
The end is just around the corner. Extending the debt ceiling just postpones the inevitable and that is the collapse of the US dollar and the world’s house of cards economy. People like Ron Paul have been warning against this since the mid 70’s and proposing and voting for the right kind of government that could be sustained but nobody listened. They listen today.
saywhat?
August 1st, 2011
9:35 am
I have a feeling Jesus would only allow one abortion- lil borings.
MarkV
August 1st, 2011
9:38 am
Kyle,
The fallacy of your analysis is condensed into the following words: “The president gets more borrowing authority…”
It is not the President who gets borrowing authority. The government of the United States is being allowed to pay the country’s obligations, which should not even be a subject of debate by responsible people. To consider the result of the blackmail some kind of victory or loss is obscene by itself.
RGB
August 1st, 2011
9:41 am
Altering the old Virginia Slims advertisement and applying it to America’s debt situation: “You’ve come the wrong way baby.”
All actuarial assessments of our debt situation show that we are in an unsustainable situation. Liberals blast anyone who simply tries to reduce the increase in spending using words such as “draconian”. If the current plan is passed, spending will rise another $7 trillion over the next decade. If I worked for someone who gave me a $7 trillion raise I would not denounce the raise as a “draconian cut”. But such is the cult of liberal ideology.
Those who blame individuals who want to preserve Medicare and other programs by reducing spending in fact want the programs to fail. And fail they will as we press our spending foot firmly on the accelerator and attempt to defeat any braking mechanisms such as a balanced budget amendment or even simple spending discipline. Our continued reckless spending constitutes certain death for Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.
One poster demonstrated that he had no grasp of the problem when he wrote “There was no indication – by any metric – that the United States was having difficulty borrowing money one month ago.”
As long as there are checks in the check book, honey, we’re OK.
Liberals’ new theme song: “Greece is the Word”.
tiredofIT
August 1st, 2011
9:46 am
If you have personal debt you should not be allowed to vote.
Cut The Root!
August 1st, 2011
9:54 am
Abolish the Federal Reserve…the root of all debates! All of the problems America faces are just symptoms of the real cause of our demise. Cut off the root and the symptoms go away!!
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
10:01 am
tiredofIT – Seriously?? What exactly is the problem with personal debt? If you are a responsible borrower who properly uses money that is loaned to you in a voluntary exchange then you are no burden on anyone.
Now if you were advocating not being allowed to vote if you work for the government, receive a check directly from the government, work for a company that is being paid by the government then I would be fully behind your suggestion. These are folks who’s income is being funded through the involuntary taking of monies from the productive sector of society. It is in their vested interests to use the power of their votes to extract further revenue on their own behalf. Their participation in the election process is clearly self-serving and innappropriate. One might even say a bit immoral.
A simpler solution would be to massively slash government size, power, etc. and allow the free market (something we don’t actually have) to provide the services, etc. that government currently holds a monopoly on providing. In that way the funding for these companies, their employees, etc. would all come through a voluntary means in a competitive market without the corrupting influence of government or its monopoly on “legal” force and violence. That would also finally let us all decide on what WE actually want as services, etc. (I’m thinking that busting kids for lemonade stands might end up very low on the list).
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
10:03 am
Cut The Root! – Absolutely. If americans actually bothered to read about the Federal Reserve, its role in creating and facilitating the massive deficits and debts we now see, etc. they would finally realize that Islamic terrorists are NOT the greatest threat we face in america. END THE FED.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
10:16 am
http://www.usdebtclock.org
Everyone should go to this site and see truly what our government has gotten us into. Especially take note of the liabilities associated with SS, Medicare, Medicare PartD, etc. There is a link for each state as well. This is unsustainable.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( Thee Magnificent!!! Just sayin...
August 1st, 2011
10:19 am
D.C. Adults Top Alcohol Abusers in Country…
dummycrats spending like drunken sailors, just sayin…
Will
August 1st, 2011
10:24 am
Kyle:
Your line of thinking is exactly what helped to muddle this entire mess and brought out the worst in politics – you seem to more interested in republicans “winning” the mess and gaining political favor than resolving the mess.
This is not a difficult thing to understand. When republican politicians openly list their number one priority as defeating the President, why would anyone have expected republicans to have done or agreed to anything that might have been perceived as gaining favor for the President? Did any serious mind really believe the radical republican/tea party politicians would participate in resolving this matter anytime other than at the last possible moment?
If the President is defeated, let’s see if the republican president will be held to the same standards when the republican president is up against a debt ceiling issue (and only the most rabid partisan would even argue that a republican president will not be faced with this same issue).
Republican/tea party radicals can attempt to govern from “purity of thought” because they know, in the long run, they will not be held responsible for their “pure” thoughts because calmer heads will prevail in the end. I suspect many, if they actually believed they would prevail, would most likely vote differently.
It’s sort of like anti-war democrats who vote to cut off funding for wars. They know the other side will prevail but they can gain political favor with their base, much like the radical republican/tea party politicians can vote “pure”, knowing the other side will eventually prevail, and be popular with their base.
If it makes you feel politically better to worry more about who “wins” a mess like this – more power to you. Just make sure you get out of the way and let the grownups sort out your mess and eventually govern.
Granny Godzilla
August 1st, 2011
10:30 am
I’ve come to my senses. Ron Paul is the only one who has the economic, fiscal, and constitutional know-how to allow this country to heal itself by terminating it’s fatalistic imperial ambitions and returning it to the decentralized powers which reside in the states.
This is the premise the country was founded on and if you don’t like, then go jump in front of a train or throw your hair dryer into the bath water. Or just get the he!! out of the way so American individuals can get on with their lives and no longer be under siege from the slaves of the statist-nationalist leviathan.
Golden Dawg
August 1st, 2011
10:31 am
I really hope this is NOT passed. This deal will hurt our economy more than not immediately raising the debt-limit.
Tax Breaks for Millionaires and Corporate Loopholes have never led to job increases. Look at the Reagan Years and the Bush Years as CLEAR evidence. Reagan raised the debt-limit “18” times and G.W. Bush did it “7” times – WHY? To keep the economy prospering. (Someone PLEASE Counter That.)
Only Clinton’s policies eventually turned the tide and led to balanced budgets and even budget surpluses. And then Bush returned the Budget Surplus. And where did 8 Years of Bush’s economic policies lead us? Housing speculation, short-term construction-induced jobs, ultimate financial disaster and TARP and BAILOUTs.
Now PLEASE explain to me: Why Middle Class Americans should be THE ONLY ones to pay for those Right Wing Economically Disasterous Policies.
Golden Dawg
August 1st, 2011
10:36 am
Cutting middle class services WITHOUT increasing millionaires’ taxes is simple surrender. The Middle Class will be paying 100% of the cost – AGAIN. We Can Not Take Anymore.
Golden Dawg
August 1st, 2011
10:46 am
This is a very DANGEROUS PRECEDENT. AND IT IS JUST THE BEGINNING. Our government WILL be held hostage on every critical issue going forward. What are Democrats willing to surrender at the NEXT juncture?
FORCE the Right to bear responsibility for this debt-increase. Bush’s Wars drained and continue to drain our finances. Thankfully, Obama is ending both. Ten Years of Tax Breaks for Millionaires and Corporations have bled us dry and have NOT increased jobs. The only people who reaped rewards were the wealthiest Americans. We should DEMAND that Every American pay their fair share to resolve this.
The Right has PROVEN that they are willing, even eager, to destroy the economy in order to gain political points. FINALLY, Middle Class American VOTERS are seeing the Right as the “Extortionist” they are. They will be voted out in 2012. The only way for a “long term” economic recovery is to stand up for the working class NOW. Middle Class Americans cannot survive if their leaders continue to surrender to the RIGHT at the crucial moments of the battle.
Moderate Line
August 1st, 2011
11:01 am
Mad Max
August 1st, 2011
7:13 am
My. my. The left is out in force this morning spewing their venom. Meaqnwhile did anyone notice the unemployment figures in DC.
++++
Yes. The umployment in DC is 10.4% which is higher than the rest of the country. Are you refering to the DC metropolitan area which includes parts of Virginia and Maryland?
http://www.bls.gov/lau/
BlogReader
August 1st, 2011
11:11 am
Hooray! The debt ceiling agreement is a great victory for the GOP, possibly the last before the political party breaks up and goes down in flames in November 2012! Republican fickleness initiated big-time, peacetime deficit spending in the Reagan Administration, brought us to the brink of another Great Depression in the Bush II Administration, stalled economic recovery in the Obama Administration, and now plans to push the economy over the edge before the next elections.
Whatever happened to job creation? Even with ready availability of capital and labor, and the lowest interest rates in history, the American private sector is unable to create the jobs Americans need. Is anyone mad enough to think that the private sector will be stimulated by cutting the jobs and the consumer demand that the federal deficit supports? Has Congress repealed arithmetic, and replaced it with voodoo economics?
Moderate Line
August 1st, 2011
11:12 am
The loser is the American people because the debt ceiling vote is pointless. 5 years from do you think congress will feel obligated to fullfill terms of this agreement. No. Witin the last 5 years we have gone from Republican conrol of the House, Senate and the Presidency to Democratic control of the House and Senate with Republican Presidency to Democratic control of the House, Senate and Presidency and now to the Republican control of the House with Democratic control of the Senate and Presidency. All of this since 2007.
This deal will be modified by the make up of the government. Also, the pressures of reality will also start to take affect as they did in Greece and other parts of Europe. We can’t continue with tax revenue less than 15% of GDP and still fund the largest military in the world and medicare and social security.
We are currently losing $20 million in teax revenue in order to save $16 million a year in federal subsidies in the FAA authorization. The deficit went up $200 million in one week because of sheer stuborness.
JDW
August 1st, 2011
11:17 am
A bit more reality for the minions around here…
“In their passion, Republicans convinced themselves that the constitutional republic and the free-enterprise system were threatened as never before. Their response? To threaten to blow up the free-enterprise system and wreck the republic unless they gained their point.
Republicans have become so gripped by pessimism and panic that they feel they have nothing to lose by rushing into a catastrophe now. But there is a lot to lose, and in these past weeks America nearly lost it. Let’s hope that as America steps back from the brink, Republicans remember that it’s their job to protect the system, not to smash the system in hopes of building something better from the ruin”
BTW that is what a Republican thinks of the “win”…
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/01/frum.debt.republicans/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
BuckheadBill
August 1st, 2011
11:19 am
Hey Senior Valdeez, each time you click “Submit Comment” it prints your garbage. Once is too many, actually.
The Anti-Wooten
August 1st, 2011
11:48 am
I’ve seen multiple enjoinders today stating that this is a Tea Party victory but in my view it’s an example of the Teahadists winning the battle but losing the war. They have now been exposed as extremist idealogues that would prefer to hurt everyone and the nation rather than compromise. The sheep’s clothing has now been torn asunder.
real john
August 1st, 2011
12:13 pm
I still can’t figure out you Liberals? This isn’t a “win” for anytone. You do realize that we are still projected to add another $7 trillion to our already $14.3 trillion in debt over the next 7 years. $21 TRILLION. How in the H### are we supposed to pay for this????
It’s no different than someone being $50k in credit card debt and saying oh well, I’m ONLY going to add $5k in credit card debt for the next 5 years instead of 10K a year. GUESS WHAT you are still ADDING more debt.
For the liberals who like to fashion themselves as these great thinkers…it is amazing how stupid they are at basic math????
Mad Max
August 1st, 2011
12:16 pm
Moderate Line. For every chart, there is an opposite chart. I was using the chart from the AJC yesterday. Pick your source & someone will find another that supports their view. I don’t have time to read them all.
Red
August 1st, 2011
12:20 pm
In a related story: President Reagan will now be featured on the five $1trillion coins that President Obama will order the Treasury Secretary to mint this September.
It could happen.
Jimmy62
August 1st, 2011
12:21 pm
All you people whining about the GOP hates the poor… You know what? A dollar spent on charity goes a lot further to helping the poor than a dollar spent in taxes, no matter how much government sponsored welfare there is. Simple math. The government has to spend money to collect i, then waste money figuring out how to spend it, then waste more money paying off bureaucrats every step of the way, then waste more money spending it on stuff that doesn’t help anyone, before maybe 1 penny of that tax dollar helps poor people.
Conservatives give more to charity than liberals, charity does a better job helping poor people than government welfare, as well as keeping more power and control away from politicians. So if you want to help poor people, give to charity, give your time and your money, and you will actually help poor people. Complaining about taxes being too low helps no one, especially when you consider that the IRS will happily take more of your money than you owe if you send it their way. So why don’t you? Because you really only want OTHER PEOPLES’ MONEY to help poor people, not your own.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
12:27 pm
“Our government WILL be held hostage on every critical issue going forward. What are Democrats willing to surrender at the NEXT juncture?”
——
Oh noes! The Idiot Messiah and Democrat party still have to pass legislation through Congress the old fashioned way–by getting the required votes! We thought our Idiot Messiah was going to be able to rule by decree!
jconservative
August 1st, 2011
12:45 pm
Had we passed this legislation in 2009 for FY 2010, the deficit for FY 2010 would have been $1.2 trillion instead of the actual $1.3 trillion. Is this progress or what?
At this rate we will have the national debt paid off in about 7 or 8 generations.
We continue to talk about cutting spending instead of actually cutting spending. This makes 30 straight years we have done nothing about cutting spending but talk.
Yeah, I know about the 3 Clinton balanced budgets but remember, we killed one of those by mailing every taxpayer a check from the “surplus”. You do remember the “surplus”, do you not? The National Debt was $5 trillion but somewhere in all those zeros was a Golden Egg, the “surplus”.
So everybody got a share.
Truth
August 1st, 2011
12:55 pm
Repeal Obamacare asap
Balanced Budget Amendment asap
Repeal Amendment allowing Federal govt to collect income taxes and replace with Fair Tax asap
Problems Solved.
I was not a Tea Party supporter before but as of today, I am 100% for the Tea Party Why? Because I love my country and not a political party.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
12:57 pm
No one said this is the end of getting to balance. It’s just what had to be done to get beyond the debt limit. It’s progress, and you can thank the tea party for every bit of it.
It’s great to hear all the liberal support for balancing the budget!
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
1:10 pm
When the government completely rejects the 9th and 10th amendments, has destroyed the 4th amendment with the Patriot Act, the TSA, and a long list of other abuses, has seriously undermined the 1st, 2nd, and many of the others (there are even examples of quartering soldiers (well police, but what’s the real difference these days) in foreclosed homes, why would anyone believe that government will respect a balanced budget amendment??
If they wish to balance the budget they will balance the budget. Period. Neither side wishes to because they are addicted to the warfare/welfare state that buys them votes and benefits their friends in big business and big labor.
The balanced budget amendment is just another way to kick the can down the road to yet another congress.
Atlantan
August 1st, 2011
1:14 pm
@Mike Valdeez – get out of the basement and off Daily Kos. GE paid not taxes last year – Jeff Immelt (GE’s CEO) is Obama’s best bud.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
1:16 pm
If we are really going to have a discuss about the poor, consider that the inflation tax (you know, when prices go up) is being driven almost exclusively by the printing press and the Federal Reserve. In response to our excessive government spending, they are printing money to buy the bonds that nobody else wishes to buy. Additionally the Fed loaned over 9 Trillion Dollars to big financial instutions in this and foreign countries in the past 2 years. This additional money ends up back in the financial system and causes upward pressure on prices (inflation) as more money goes after the same amount of goods – supply and demand.
Inflation hurts the poor the most. If those on the left and those on the right actually cared about the poor, they would be immediately calling for an end to the Federal Reserve and an end to deficit spending.
It will mean little if the government makes sure your SS check shows up and you can barely buy a loaf of bread with it. Think it can’t happen? Look up Weimar Germany, Argentina, and Zimbawe currency crises on the internet and read for yourself what happens when a government goes out of control and printing destroys the currency.
MarkV
August 1st, 2011
1:19 pm
The Democrats should (but will not) take a page from the tea-party game book and do the following:
1. Reject the deal now on table;
2. Demand a one-page, clean debt-ceiling increase bill.
The Republicans would then have two choices:
a. Approve the bill and accept a defeat;
b. Reject the bill and receive the blame for the consequences.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
August 1st, 2011
1:37 pm
MarkV, the Dems already had their chance to sabotage the country on this one. Republicans refused to allow that to happen.
Golden Dawg
August 1st, 2011
2:20 pm
Where did 8 Years of Republican economic policies lead us? Housing speculation, short-term construction-induced jobs, ultimate financial disaster and TARP and BAILOUTs.
Now PLEASE explain to me: Why Middle Class Americans should be THE ONLY ones to pay for those Right Wing Economically Disasterous Policies.
A voice of reason
August 1st, 2011
3:04 pm
You liberal fools. You could take every penny the rich make and still not make up the deficit. Wake up.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
3:47 pm
Its amazing that some actually see going $2+ Trillion more into debt is a solution to the problem.
What planet are you living on?? Instead of treating this as a republican or democratic issue, just think about what you are supporting for a moment. When will this ever end? Do you know the history of 1920’s Germany? Do you know what it looks like when hyperinflation destroys a currency? Do you honestly think THAT scenario will be better for Grandma, Grandpa, the poor, the homeless???
I don’t support the absurd proposals from the republicans. They don’t cut anywhere near enough, especially from the military budget. But somewhere this all has to stop. If you have children it is even more appalling that you would support kicking the can down the road further.
MarkV
August 1st, 2011
4:15 pm
MrLiberty @3:47 pm:
Your rage is just words, words, words, lacking any thought. “They don’t cut anywhere near enough, especially from the military budget.” What do you think the cuts, which you demand, actually mean. Those are mostly moneys that Americans will not get, and therefore will not be able to spend, making the economy even worse. Even the military budget, which I agree should be cut, is for the most part funds that eventually go to people in the US who make things for the military, and if they do not make them, they will not get paid and will not have money to spend. What should be cut in the defense budget is the funds used to keep our bases in foreign countries.
The blunder of the current bill is not that it does not cut enough, but that it not only does nothing to help the economy, it hurts it. Which probably is what the Republicans in the Congress want. The best way to reduce the debt is to make the economy stronger so that there is more money coming in, and that is not achieved by budget cuts.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
4:44 pm
And when the funds are cut to pay for foreign military bases then what happens to all the hundreds of thousands of military personnel that occupy those bases? I mean I agree that these are the military cuts that should lead the list, but the impact is the same. Every dollar that government spends is a dollar that is diverted from private sector spending. You say this will take money from americans, but it is first stolen from other americans. That needs to stop. It also diverts labor (those soldiers you are concerned about – and I am too) that could be employed by the private sector.
There has been much too much spending by government. That so many are now chronically dependent on government for their paychecks doesn’t change the fact that the money is all gone, the bills are WAY too big to continue and the situation is unsustainable. Pain will be felt, but the sooner money returns to the private, productive sector (personally I would rather see it end up in the hands/pockets of taxpayers) the sooner the recovery can begin.
It is savings, capital improvement, investment, and production that fuel an economy, not spending. You have it completely backwards, but that is the problem in this country and the economists that are entrusted with all of our money. Mises and the Austrians have it right but yet governments keep spending and spending thinking that spending is the answer. The debt must be liquidated and saving must begin again. That is the only thing that will establish the needed foundation for sustainable growth and prosperity. It is the only thing that has EVER been the foundation for this.
MrLiberty
August 1st, 2011
4:47 pm
This is basic Austrian economics. If you wish to learn the correct way to be looking at this economic crisis, go to http://www.mises.org and read all of the free literature. These guys predicted the first Depression and correctly assessed everything that made it worse. They predicted this one too and their solutions are the right ones to get us on the right track.