APS: Millions to fire cheaters, including those who confessed
I thought we were getting somewhere when the state investigation into cheating at Atlanta Public Schools revealed that more than 80 teachers and principals had admitted to cheating. But apparently not. From the AJC:
With only today left in a three-day grace period for APS employees named in the probe to walk away or otherwise face termination, only four of them had taken the district up on its encouragement for them to quit their jobs — two on Tuesday and two on Monday. The district declined to release their names; a spokesman said it had not compiled a list.
APS, it appears, is on the verge of a long and costly journey to fire nearly 200 employees, as a mass of resignations appeared Tuesday to be a waning prospect. …
[APS Superintendent Errol] Davis has already estimated that it will take at least four months to get through the process of firing them. It could take longer given the numbers who may stay on to fight. Davis has given no firm estimate for the cost of that fight, but it is likely to total millions of dollars given the legal rights of employees and the simultaneous need to replace them in classrooms. Some also continue to be paid while in limbo.
One would think that those people who admitted cheating, at a minimum, would realize their departure is just a matter of time and save APS some time, money and energy.
But if it’s going to cost millions of dollars to rid the system of its cancer, maybe the school board can send the bill for the first half-million to Beverly Hall — and let her cover it with the bonuses she earned while all these people were cheating.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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62 comments Add your comment
that's goofy
July 20th, 2011
10:45 am
they will use the ” I was following orders” justification. Some may also claim fear for their jobs if they didn’t go along. It is unreasonable to demand teachers behave ethically when the APS leadership (and according to the AJC) business community did not.
that's goofy
July 20th, 2011
10:47 am
* behaving ethically = resigning when your breech the trust placed in you.
Pompano
July 20th, 2011
10:50 am
Pretty much what we all expected. The school administrators will huff and puff – putting on a nice show but in the end protecting their own. This had been one of the long standing complaints with the teaching profession – that it is basically impossible to get rid of ineffective teachers even when the offense rises to the level of criminal behavior.
Davis did nothing to improve the University system in the state. He’s just another do-nothing Political appoint hack livi8ng off the taxpayers
wallbanger
July 20th, 2011
10:57 am
Sadly, the same people who will cheat our children, have no compunctions about taking more money from the taxpayer and bringing vexatious law suits. The judge who handles their cases ought to sanction their lawyers and fine the plaintiffs. Perhaps we would then see some real justice. I am going to leave Atlanta. I lived here 20 years. It is a hell hole. DeKalb is going to raise my property taxes another $1250 this year. Time to get the heck out.
@@
July 20th, 2011
11:00 am
There were teachers at North Clayton Middle here in Clayton County whose names were on the list of cheaters. I couldn’t believe my eyes when it was said “there will be no immediate consequences for their actions”. How many more kids will be robbed of their future before parents say ENOUGH?
Kyle got a H/T from Forbes.
Tests are not meant to punish children, but to help them succeed. As Kyle Wingfield, an opinion columnist for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, wrote, “Atlanta students face the worst consequences. Some current high schoolers may never have gotten a true appraisal on the state test, and many were denied the extra help they’d have gotten if their real scores were reported properly.”
Carlosgvv
July 20th, 2011
11:01 am
Kyle, did you really think they would just do the right thing and quit? Silly you. They are ENTITLED, by golly, and don’t you forget it.
John A.
July 20th, 2011
11:03 am
This rush to judgement reminds me of what Christ warned those who were bent on passing harsh judgement on others when they themselves were guilty of worse sins. The warning is found in Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV)
Tyler Durden
July 20th, 2011
11:06 am
Wow. I must admit: I’m highly impressed that this information was presented with no attempt to associate it with 1) anything progressive, or 2) anything supported by the GOP or Tea Party.
That’s objective, reasonable commentary. From Kyle Wingfield!!
I’m going outside to look for the Four Horseman in the sky. Armageddon must be nigh
Jefferson
July 20th, 2011
11:20 am
This is gonna cost and good money will be made prolonging the problem. Maybe it will be a wake up call.
that's goofy
July 20th, 2011
11:28 am
only a couple whacks at teachers… not bad.
@Pompano: please a name a profession where people voluntarily quit if when facing wrong doing? Police? Fire? Military? Burger King? CEO? CEO’s step down after negotiating the buy out. To paint an entire profession based on a small sample is foolish.
@Carlosgvv: they are “ENTITLED” to due process – , “by golly, and don’t you forget it”.
If they signed a 2011-2012 contract – what was APS thinking by offering one to any teacher at schools under investigation?
Atlanta Schools Cheating for A Decade - Page 34 - City-Data Forum
July 20th, 2011
11:29 am
[...] As I thought. APS: Millions to fire cheaters, including those who confessed | Kyle Wingfield [...]
Publius
July 20th, 2011
11:30 am
If the paper or the governor performed a forensic audit of the Atlanta School sysytem, I’m sure they would find excessive overstaffing and outside cousultant fees and contracts to pay for the firings.
the guy on the couch
July 20th, 2011
11:34 am
You know who else was “just following orders?”
Nazis, and it made them no less culpable for their actions.
Billings
July 20th, 2011
11:38 am
Loser pays and we know who they are.
Tychus Findlay
July 20th, 2011
11:40 am
Not sure the Nazi comparison is merited, but the argument is valid. These teachers ’should’ have a concept of right and wrong and should have taken a basic stand for principles. The fact that they did not is a sure indicator that they should not be teaching the next generation.
Pompano
July 20th, 2011
11:56 am
@ that’s goofy – so you’re comparing teachers with CEO’s??? Pretty much demonstrates the arrogance associated with the profession.
In the private sector, this type of behavior (falsifying corporate documents) would result in immediate termination with no severance (even if they were the CEO). However the school systems have setup artificial protections for under-performing employees at the expense of taxpayers.
BTW – I don’t expect them to quit (nothing in their recent behavior indicates the presence of Integrity). I would expect them to be fired – which likely won’t happen or will happen with great expense to the public. All due to administrative incompetance
that's goofy
July 20th, 2011
12:04 pm
The only time the Nazi comparison is valid is if the comparison is between Nazis.
200 employees are named in the probe but are they guilty? Did they admit to wrong doing? Kyle’s AJC quote says they were named in the probe. If the state “named” them are they automatically guilty?
If 80 confessed – I don’t know why they are hanging around?
that's goofy
July 20th, 2011
12:11 pm
@Pompano – teachers can be fired – but it takes effort. there is no union protection for poor performing teachers in GA. I guess I could’ve named every profession – but I’m multi tasking. Teachers have a contract – it works to keep the dedicated teachers in the system so they don’t skip to a near by county for more money. Unfortunately, if principals don’t do their job (or have BOE support) crappy teachers get a pass.
I spent 12 years teaching before choosing to pursue my dream job. I’ve seen bad teachers run out of the system and I’ve seen them “protected”. No different than my time in corporate America. There aren’t absolutes.
Lil' Barry Bailout
July 20th, 2011
12:17 pm
You don’t really expect the parasite class to willingly give up their overpaid, over-benefited government jobs, do you?
stands for decibels
July 20th, 2011
12:35 pm
overpaid, over-benefited government jobs
clearly the answer is to entice even more corruptible employees, with crappier pay.
Cosby
July 20th, 2011
12:46 pm
Government protected workers protected by the Teachers union mob not teaching and costing millions….tells alot about government run schools now, does it not!
BADA BING
July 20th, 2011
12:59 pm
These teachers who will not leave have no class!
Carlosgvv
July 20th, 2011
1:09 pm
that’s goofy
So, I guess all office workers employed by Corporations can’t just be fired. They are entitled to due process, right? Tell that the the companies in the past who fired me.
sam
July 20th, 2011
1:12 pm
unless i’m mistaken, georgia does not have teacher unions? maybe we should let the process run its course before throwing everyone in jail. there are no more bad teachers than there are bad cops or bad middle managers at some corporation. cant understand the hatred of the teaching profession. is it simple jealousy?
Linda
July 20th, 2011
1:13 pm
What are the obligations & rights of the parents & children? Would parents allow their children to be “taught” by “teachers” who have confessed to cheating? How far can parents go this fall? Will they organize & protest? If parents don’t stand up for their children, they will be complicit in the cheating scandal.
I can say from experience that most mothers will stand up & fight to the death, if necessary, for their children. I predict that cheaters who don’t resign now, will wish that they had & will do so after the bells ring next month.
I will personally join in any protest.
Thulsa Doom
July 20th, 2011
1:15 pm
Lemme get this straight. Over 80 teachers and principals admit cheating and they still won’t resign? Tells you all you need to know about the personnel in a lot of our schools- no sense of decency, no honor, no ethics, no sense of doing the right thing, and just plain POS people. God help our children.
sam
July 20th, 2011
1:26 pm
carlos, i suppose we know why you feel the way you do about due process.
Doris M
July 20th, 2011
1:33 pm
Oh my, more of my tax money down the drain.
If APS had decided to withhold contracts on those staff members listed as cheaters in the investigation, the cheaters would have automatically had a contract if there was no decision to terminate them by the State of Georgia deadline of May 15th (I think that is the date). APS needed to issue a termination letter instead of a contract. Why the wait? Why the indecision? Who knows?
Anyway you look at it APS is going to pay through the nose. If I were one of the named cheaters, I would not resign either. If I did, my pay would immediately stop along with my benefits (within the next month). If I chose to fight the termination at least my paycheck would still be issued until the finalization of the dismissal.
stranger in a strange land
July 20th, 2011
1:40 pm
pardon the barnyard image: they aren’t going to willingly stop sucking from the goverment teat that feeds them – they’ll have to be pulled off
megapotamus
July 20th, 2011
1:42 pm
Neither the teachers nor any other public employees should have a legal vested interest in their positions. In the Real World we work under Employment at Will, that is we can quit anytime we want and the bosses can fire us anytime we want. Yes, the contracts often specify otherwise. That needs to change. As it is, it may well turn out to be cheaper to keep these people on and put them in make-work administrative jobs, possibly having MORE influence over the classrooms, than it is to go through “due process”. Will this disaster inform the next contract negotiation? Unlikely. Close the schools, sell the buildings, fire all the employees and return the property taxes to the payers. APS and many other government institutions are no more than frauds. They consume dollars and produce nothing but paper as the cheating teachers have demonstrated. It must stop. Right now.
Jack
July 20th, 2011
1:44 pm
What really chaps me is that I have to help pay the legal fees.
that's goofy
July 20th, 2011
2:00 pm
@Carlosgvv – Teachers have a contract of employment – most office workers do not. We could not fire the CEO’’s of the bailed out companies because they had a contract.
buck@gon
July 20th, 2011
2:25 pm
I can’t help but liken the APS cheating scandal to the debt-ceiling issue–though the real issue there is budget negotiations, future spending and fiscal policy.
They are alike because cheating on tests is very similar to what the government is now doing, borrowing money ostensibly from itself to fund itself.
Neither can lead to good things. In fact, the long-term results of such awful government policy can only result in a much larger catastrophe down the road.
To completely marry the two items together, I heard a Senator talking yesterday on NPR about how the rich should pay more in taxes because their tax dollars pay for the roads, infrastructure and education system that they “exploit” (liberals use that word a lot) in order to make their millions.
Well, the rich, at least in Atlanta, were victims of fraud from top to bottom in APS. Somehow, I think to that Senator, nothing the government did–whether local or national–could ever conceivably be wrong.
buck@gon
July 20th, 2011
2:26 pm
I say the rich were defrauded, but let’s not forget the kids–being told they are educated sufficiently, when they clearly are not.
captguitarman
July 20th, 2011
2:35 pm
This is infuriating to say the least. But, keep in mind that since these cases will not be big personal injury cases where attorneys are willing to work for free and foot all of the expenses contingent on a win or a favorable settlement, these cheaters will also have to pay their lawyers as they go too. And it won’t be cheap for either side. And quite candidly, is it realistic to think that people who cheated disadvantaged kids to promote themselves, protect their jobs, avoid heat from the top, etc. are suddenly going to become honorable over night and do the right thing and resign? Especially in a culture where punishment or consequences for those denying personal accountability and respsonsibility for their actions is increasingly rare? Today, it is all about crossing the line and having it both ways, and then lawyering up when caught, then getting away with it, and then getting rich by telling your story about how you got away with it. How many millions of lawyers do we have in this country now? Has it hit four million yet? A number that dwarfs the rest of the industrialized world. These highly educated folks have to make a terrific living doing something don’t they? We badly need loser pays all the fees and expenses rules like England has, but that is another essay. You might recall that Mike Bowers, one of the state’s lead investigators on this case, said afterwards that the number of people involved was actually far more than 180, but with the code of silence, stonewalling, delaying, obfuscating, lying, etc. the best they could prove for sure within a reasonable time was 180. But now we are hearing that it was all done by only 4 or 5 of 10, and for a variety of crazy reasons, none of them was really responsible. Here we go. Thousands and thousands of erasures. Gosh who did it? I’ll tell you who. It was the same phantom who killed Caylee Anthony, the same phantom who killed OJ’s wife, the same phantom who hacked into the cell phone of a dead girl, the same phantom who killed Mary Jo Kopechne — it was none of us, and yet in another sense, all of us. Just one of the side effects of a totally secular culture, and it isn’t going to change back to the way things once were. Sadly, the chance of having many of these bad characters back in front of the kids administering, teaching, and doing testing again is greater than any of us would like to think right now. Sad but true.
Carlosgvv
July 20th, 2011
2:40 pm
that’s goofy
Does their contract specify they can cheat and, if fired, tie up their employers in court? If so, I wonder who wrote the contract?
Linda
July 20th, 2011
2:50 pm
Had the cheating not occurred, the scores would have been lower & the children would have qualified for remedial tutoring, etc. Elementary school students reached middle school without the abilities to read & write. It will take years for these children to catch up. For some, it will be never. Their self-esteem was impacted. These children were violated.
Forget the legal expenses on both sides. Who will pay the expenses to re-educate the children?
Doris M
July 20th, 2011
3:39 pm
The cheaters are hanging around to keep that paycheck coming!!
Common Sense
July 20th, 2011
4:00 pm
Does anyone know if these kids were given these test scores that were altered as their own?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 20th, 2011
4:06 pm
Parties of the left are on this earth to grow the government. But the West has entered a period where its economic survival and the prevention of financial collapse mandate constant and deep cuts in the size and sweep of government.
For the left, this is going to be a long decade.
And the end can’t come quick enough.
They care nothing about our children, it couldn’t be more obvious. All they care about is staying firmly attached to the host, like any other parasite.
Time to delouse America.
Dumb and Dumber
July 20th, 2011
4:20 pm
What does Beverly Hall and Rupert Murdoch have in common?
Everthing is someone else’s fault.
Linda
July 20th, 2011
5:01 pm
APS cheating scandal: the Democrats’ new implementation of social justice, the right to good grades.
td
July 20th, 2011
5:31 pm
Ok my fellow conservatives. We need to clear up a few points here.
1: There are no teacher unions in Georgia.
2: Due process: Only means that the government employer has to prove the employee broke their contractual obligation to terminate them. They can not just come in and fire anyone because they do not like they way they look. This is a good thing in Government (really the private sector as well) it keeps new higher up bosses from just coming in and firing everyone.
Now if these people are found guilty and are fired then they should be brought in front of the professional standards and their license revoked forever so they can never teach in Georgia again.
As far as some of the teachers claims about my boss made me do it or I would lose my job, I have some sympathy for and do not know how I would vote for their firings. How many people out here have not been threatened to do ABC or lose their job? How many refused to do it out of a moral objection?
Now as far as the leadership that ordered them to cheat, they should be fired, certificated revoked and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law to set the example that cheating is not going to be tolerated.
Lil' Barry Bailout
July 20th, 2011
5:31 pm
These parasites will hang on and milk their soon-to-be-former jobs just as long as they can, then they’ll stay on unemployment for 99 weeks (thanks Obozo). Typical parasites. Takers supported by makers.
td
July 20th, 2011
5:37 pm
megapotamus
July 20th, 2011
1:42 pm
Neither the teachers nor any other public employees should have a legal vested interest in their positions. In the Real World we work under Employment at Will,
Yes, and in the ‘real world’ if the bosses come in and fire the productive workers then there will be a decrease in productivity and a decrease in profit and this will have a consequence on the boss. In the public sector what are the consequences for the bosses? None, they just get to hire all their friends and relatives. Public sector workers need some due process rights.
Amy
July 20th, 2011
7:10 pm
I guess this is what the Bush Administration policy “No child left behind” meant.
Linda
July 20th, 2011
7:37 pm
Amy@7:10, Yes, this is a result of “No Child Left Behind” that Bush started & Obama continued. It was Obama that bestowed accolades on Ms. Hall. This is proof that the fed. Dept. of Education should be closed.
dinkdunk
July 20th, 2011
8:25 pm
Just make em all “permanent latrine orderlies” and maybe they will just leave.
Jennifer
July 20th, 2011
8:33 pm
could it possibly get any worse ?
Just Is
July 20th, 2011
8:34 pm
It amazes me that no one has called into question the validity of the report. Forget the bits & pieces offered to you from the media for shock value. Has anyone actually read a single page of the ACTUAL 800 page document & all of its dramatics? It’s riddled with hearsay, conjecture, & bias…not to mention typos. I personally think of it as a witch hunt started by the governor, fueled by the media, & paid for by the city of Atlanta. Tutorial & remedial services are MANDATORY EACH WEEK in APS before, during, & most likely, after this “scandal”. Ask any teacher on the southside how many students parents actually make their children attend, so good luck in organizing a protest. Many teachers & disgruntled employees used the GBI in the schools as prime opportunity for payback. Sure there may be some teachers that may have cheated & should resigned, but the fact that only 4 did should call into question the validity of the report, especially if so many “admitted” to doing so. Come on guys, these are the police! You’re naive if you think their investigative tactics were so great that 80 educators “confessed.”
-For the record: most teachers are members of GAE, AFT, & PAGE. These organizations will cover any of the accused legal fees.