On Newt Gingrich’s careless right-on-right attack
All manner of conservative lawmakers and conservative opinion makers are declaring Newt Gingrich’s presidential chances dead after his Sunday morning bad-mouthing of the House Republicans’ plan for reforming Medicare. A few thoughts of my own:
- Not 48 hours before his ill-advised remarks on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” in which he described the Medicare plan as a “radical” form of “right-wing social engineering,” Gingrich gave a hard-hitting speech at the Georgia GOP convention in Macon that made attendees think the former Speaker was back at the top of his game. This kind of inconsistency, compounded by two days of back-pedaling since Sunday, is one of Gingrich’s biggest problems.
- If anything could redeem Mitt Romney’s otherwise stupefying decision to stand by his Massachusetts health reforms, Gingrich’s inconsistency just might be it.
- As I mentioned in another comment thread earlier today, this episode also gives one the impression that he’s an “ideas man” who doesn’t put much thought into how he talks about ideas. That’s a bad habit to have for someone seeking an office that comes with intense scrutiny of every word uttered by its holder.
- This episode further lends credence to the idea that Gingrich is about Gingrich first, foremost and last. A Republican candidate interested in becoming president so that he can work with a GOP majority in the House, and perhaps the Senate, would not even be tempted to paint those fellow Republicans’ plans in a way that practically writes the opposition’s campaign commercials. That doesn’t mean he has to endorse every Republican idea out there, or even that he can’t openly disagree with some of them. But a critique is not the same thing as slander. It shouldn’t have been too hard to say, instead, something like, “I think the American people might well accept the House GOP plan down the road, but I think our first priority should be to take measures X, Y and Z, while we work on fine-tuning the House GOP plan and educating the public about it.”
- The specific confrontation this episode sets up between Gingrich and Rep. Paul Ryan, the budget chairman who authored the wide-ranging plan, a clear contrast between yesterday’s face of GOP thinking and today’s face. And I don’t think that’s a comparison that favors Gingrich. After all, if Republicans wanted a chance to distance themselves from Ryan and his plan, Gingrich’s remarks gave them that opportunity. The fact that no one is jumping on it says a lot about which man’s vision is more embraced.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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130 comments Add your comment
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
12:23 pm
Newt’s toast but has too big an ego to realize it or understand why.
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
12:28 pm
How foolish do you have to be to alienate your base on Day One of your campaign?
Logical Dude
May 17th, 2011
12:29 pm
Kyle,
You called this one pretty well. But knowing Republicans, they may still give Gingrich some votes. I hope not, because I expect much better from the Republicans.
jconservative
May 17th, 2011
12:33 pm
As I said in the previous column, Gingrich simply cannot stay on message.
DW
May 17th, 2011
12:36 pm
Would you really expect anything less from this idiot?
Jefferson
May 17th, 2011
12:36 pm
Newt is right about the medicare theft, too much of it. Folk have paid the money, they deserve what was promised. Reform should not be about stiffing the American workers and citizens, it should be more about controlling costs, elimination of fraud and getting the money’s worth.
Newt’s character flaws lead to lack of trust.
ragnar danneskjold
May 17th, 2011
12:43 pm
Good analysis, Mr. Bookman. Sorry to see the decline of Gingrich, but his day is past.
retired early
May 17th, 2011
12:43 pm
If you study Newt’s past, you can’t help be conclude that while he is very intelligent, he also is supremely over confident. He believes he can think on his feet and say anything that comes to mind without fear. If his words trip him, he is a master at rationalizing his thoughts to suit the contradictions. Most importantly however, he is self centered to an extreme. It is always about Newt, not the party…the country…or his past and current wives and girl friends. He thinks he can change…but as we are witnessing almost daily is he is the same old Newt
reebok
May 17th, 2011
12:44 pm
I can’t wait for Newt’s first full-scale screaming outburst at someone who dares to question him. He’s the thinnest-skinned politico I’ve ever seen.
Sounds pretty smart to me
May 17th, 2011
12:46 pm
Single payer healthcare with a private option is the only sustainable healthcare system for our country. The irrational demand that all consumers have for healthcare, as well as the morally-based notion of providing care for ALL humans causes this to be so.
Newt and Romney are the only ones smart enough to realize this. And yes, I am a GOP supporter, employing 35 people and trying to help keep them covered. My healthcare premiums for my company are up 24% in 3 years. How is the current system sustainable? The GOP’s solutions don’t go far enough.
all you need to know about Newt...
May 17th, 2011
12:49 pm
Marianne tells all:
http://www.esquire.com/features/newt-gingrich-0910
Sounds pretty smart to me
May 17th, 2011
12:50 pm
and this allegiance to party over country has to stop somewhere. Neither party has 100% of the answers. Just not possible.
thunder
May 17th, 2011
12:50 pm
I think Newt is very, very intelligent but I think you’re dead-on about him not putting much thought into how everyone perceives the words that he chooses.
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
12:52 pm
Wrong, Sounds. The only workable solution is the free market solution, in which the price mechanism balances the unreasonable demand for health care with the delivery system’s capacity. In a free market system everyone is able to purchase all the health care they want, and no one gets stuck with someone else’s bill.
Darwin
May 17th, 2011
1:03 pm
Lil’ Barry what you say? A free market system everyone is able to purchase all the health care they want? What planet are you from?
Dave
May 17th, 2011
1:07 pm
I have heard comparisons of Newt and Richard Nixon I think that is who he reminds me of.
Ivan
May 17th, 2011
1:09 pm
Who are the other options at a GOP candidate? You think GOP minded voters will choose a Mass. Republican? Remember, Tea Party candidates won because they went after Republicans too.
BS Aplenty
May 17th, 2011
1:11 pm
Rep. Ryan’s long-term budget proposals take on and address the sacred cows and structural causes of the U.S. budget deficits. Most of those budget cuts will hit seniors and near-seniors for whom Medicare is what’s between them and an impoverished life without healthcare. I genuinely think Republican candidates, like Mr. Gingrich, would do well near-term to NOT ALIENATE those seniors.
Long-term, Gingrich like most conscious Americans (not the unconsious ones!!) understands that the structural imbalances in our spending/taxing will have to be addressed. But I’m certain he doesn’t want to do this during his campaign and risk hanging a base-alienating albatross around his campaign. I think Mitt Romney would wish he didn’t have to drag that Massachusetts healthcare albatross throughout his campaign.
Anyway, I think several of these comments are offered by the politically naive or those who simply don’t like Gingrich personally.
PatPaulson
May 17th, 2011
1:12 pm
Newt is extremely intelligent and has lots of worthy ideas for our country plus he has necessary political experience that would make him an excellent president. I’d vote for him. What he apparently lacks right now… is someone within his campaign staff to help coach him to be on message and to frame responses in such a way as to deliver the views he wants but in such a way as to gain acceptance instead of alienation. Newt has great ideas and we need those but he has to think first, then speak. A rocky start for sure, he can get back on track but he needs to start building momentum.
The Ghost of Lester Maddox
May 17th, 2011
1:19 pm
That loud “thud” we keep hearing is the sound of Democrats falling upon their knees in prayer that Newt will keep running and running, and taking money away from other more viable Repub candidates.
Newt’s candidacy is a gift to the Dems in much the same way that Cynthia McKinney’s candidacy would be for the Repubs.
History shows that those who instigate revolutions rarely succeed in long-term power positions which require tact and dimplomacy.
Newt ain’t gonna swing the independents, but the Democrats hope he doesn’t accept that until after election day.
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
1:20 pm
PatPaulson: It’s been 16 years since Newt became speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives. He was, as was pointed out by the host moments before he made his comments, making his 35th appearance on “Meet the Press” — not to mention all the other talk shows out there. So, a sincere question: Do you think he can learn that kind message discipline now if he hasn’t learned it already?
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
1:20 pm
Darwin, the same planet where everyone is able to buy whatever car or house they want. What planet do you live on?
yuzeyurbrane
May 17th, 2011
1:23 pm
I agree that Newt is about Newt. And that he has an oversized ego. When you consider those 2 factors, what he said makes a lot of sense. He thinks that he will pick up the Republican nomination almost by default since so many of the potential heavy-hitter candidates are going to sit this one out because they see Obama winning. He sees himself as a giant among dwarfs and, for the most part, that is presently correct. So he is playing to the general election already and there is no doubt, whether it be the polls or the spontaneous outrage being exhibited at townhall meetings, that Ryan’s Medicare proposal is poison. Now, we have all heard Newt or his spokesmen from Newt, Inc. take a different position (or should I say “positions”) on healthcare reform so the only conclusion is that his latest position was quite calculated to help him win a general election. Nor do I think he is a lone wolf. The House Republicans did walk over the cliff like good little lemmings, but how many of their Presidential candidates, present or potential, have said anything beyond praising Ryan’s courage? Nor will you hear them as long as they have real or potential Presidential ambitions. So, maybe Newt is not so stupid after all?
Will
May 17th, 2011
1:25 pm
Ole Newt is finding out pretty quickly that it is much easier (and popular) simply to make President Obama the root of all problems rather than actually questioning anything else.
I believe we are all beginning to see what has always been there – the base of the republican party primary voter will not allow anything less than purity of thought. In turrn, to win the nomination, one must run so far to the right than one has to abandon the swing voter who will determine the winner next November.
The only way a more pragmatic, business oriented candidate like Mitt Romney or Governor Daniels can win the republican nomination and have any hope of attracting swing voters is for the far right wing candidates to split the vote – sort of like last go around when Senator McCain benefitted.
Of course, when that happens, the far right wing republicans will sit on their hands next November.
Politics is strange business. It looks like republicans are moving toward doing the unthinkable – losing to a democrat President as weak as this one!
PatPaulson
May 17th, 2011
1:28 pm
Kyle Wingfield: Absolutely I think Newt can learn to apply the kind of discipline to his messages that he needs but like I said, he needs a coach, someone in his staff that will help keep him on track until new habits are formed. He’s been winging it for a long time and if he’s serious about becoming president then right there is the motivation for improvement. Got to want it though. Got to show the people he’s willing to put forth the effort not just the ideas.
North Over South
May 17th, 2011
1:31 pm
Newt Gingrich is the town idiot
South over North
May 17th, 2011
1:35 pm
Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Napolitano, and Biden are the town idiots
that's goofy
May 17th, 2011
1:38 pm
Newt’s contract on America began the party before country mentality of too many politicians. It has been reinforced by talking pin heads and columnists so often that the lines between fact and opinion are blurred.
Newt like so many politicians can’t keep straight what they say from one interview to the next. Watch him on the Daily Show and then watch him on a FOX show. Same dude – different message.
DBuck
May 17th, 2011
1:40 pm
Newt Gingrich has been mouthing off helter-skelter since he first entered politics in the 1970s. All you need to know about him is in his infamous 1978 speech to the Georgia College Republicans. He told these young political activists not to educate the voters, tell them what they want to hear. He trashed the Republican leadership of his generation, which meant Eisenhower, Goldwater, Taft, everybody. Finally, he applauded nastiness as a virtue in politics.
Sound familiar?
Full text here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/newt/newt78speech.html
Dan
ByteMe
May 17th, 2011
1:46 pm
•This episode further lends credence to the idea that Gingrich is about Gingrich first, foremost and last
We were looking for more evidence of this? That’s like looking for more evidence of gravity.
The fact that no one is jumping on it says a lot about which man’s vision is more embraced.
But not necessarily saying anything about which vision is more in tune with the majority of the populace. You know them, right? Those pesky voters who show up in droves during Presidential election cycles — but less so during the off-years — and vote for their own economic self-interest. Destroying Medicare is clearly not going to fly with them.
BRW
May 17th, 2011
1:50 pm
Lil’ Barry Cop-Out, The words “Want”, “Need” and “Can Afford” are not interchangeable like you seem to think. I want a Ferrari. I need a Chevette. I can afford a BMW. In healthcare that does not fly. Most people eventually need the Ferrari but are stuck with the Chevette or less until they die.
insurance poor
May 17th, 2011
1:51 pm
Hate to tell little barry but when you buy a chevy, EVERYBODY pays basically the same price. When you pay for health inisurance, you don’t. I had to give mine up after I had an operation and they triple my rate to $1200.00 a month. NO WAY i could pay that. Of course now I’ve got a hernea and now I have to try and wait until I hit 65 until I can get it worked on.
Mr. Dithers
May 17th, 2011
1:54 pm
Little Barry, what planet is that? Anyone can buy the house or car they want? That’s the attitude that gave us this crushing housing crisis that is killing our economy. The free market has left over 40 million uninsured, so it seems pretty clear it doesn’t work. Or are you saying that those 40M+ don’t want insurance?
MarkV
May 17th, 2011
1:55 pm
Although I dislike both Gingrich and Romney, and especially Gingrich, one must give those two at least the following credit: Unlike most other Republicans. they have not completely flip-flopped on the original Republican idea, the individual mandates in health care, which has become the heart of Obamacare.
BRW
May 17th, 2011
1:56 pm
I think Newt’s conscience is actually causing these errors, if he has one. On the one hand things come out of his brain that actually make some sense for the country but then his political-vote-winning-at-all-cost side shows up and he flip flops.
Dresden
May 17th, 2011
1:58 pm
Say what you want about Obama, but his administration found Bin Laden and killed him. I guess old Bush forgot about him, as he was too busy getting us into a war with a country that had never attacked us, had no WMD, and was not part of 9-11 terrorist attacks. The problem with this country is CAPITALISM, GREED, and GOP, hey that kinda rhymes.
mike
May 17th, 2011
2:00 pm
I am waiting on pins and needles wanting to hear the next bastion of intelligence from ole Newt. I would like him and Sara to run. The debates would be great with all the knowledge these two would bring to the voters. Just bring your dictionary when Newt is talking and then use them as a footstool while Sara speaks.
John
May 17th, 2011
2:09 pm
Kyle, while I agree Newt has been flip-flopping all over the place and that his remarks on Ryan’s Medicare proposal may be writing the Democrats’ campaign commercials, I disagree with your closing statements…”After all, if Republicans wanted a chance to distance themselves from Ryan and his plan, Gingrich’s remarks gave them that opportunity. The fact that no one is jumping on it says a lot about which man’s vision is more embraced.”
Noticed how quickly House Republicans have been backpedaling on Ryan’s proposal (which they passed in a partisan fashion) since their town halls meetings? House members who voted for the plan don’t seem to be embracing it as they did when they voted for it. Maybe we’ll get a chance to see how much Senate Republicans still embrace Ryan’s plan since Reid said he would bring it up for a vote.
Tungnchek
May 17th, 2011
2:10 pm
Just a hunch but Newt probably said this to secure the senior vote. He knows the republicans will lose the senior voters who depend on Medicare if they decide to try to abolish Medicare. That’s a lot of voters. Why not go after Medicaid instead? Poor children and families don’t need healthcare. And they don’t vote either.
Lefty
May 17th, 2011
2:13 pm
Darwin,
Judging from what he’s said, Lil’ Barry Bailout’s from right here on Planet Earth like the rest of us. I think if you weren’t quite so hung up on semantics, you’d realize what he means by that statement. In a free market system, everyone is able to purchase all the healthcare they CAN AFFORD. If you’ve got the money, sure, you can buy as much as you want.
Keep racking up the deficit borrowing internationally…keep sucking valuable money out of the domestic economy with irrational entitlement expansions…keep trying to implement a flawed, illegal healthcare system that was pushed through legislation like a battering ram…keep intensifying the tax code and elbowing small business out of the economic model…let’s see how well this works out for us. Ask Sounds if he thinks the government has helped his small business contribute to the economy, or if he thinks they’ve stifled its growth under the ever-expanding tax code and our skyrocketing entitlement costs. I know the answer already, though, because I work for a 40-employee company too.
As long as we’re going to keep expanding entitlement at the expense of productive employees, here’s an idea: instead of designing it to encourage laziness, let’s design it to reward motivation. For once, let’s have some kind of program that actually uses its money to help GET THE UNEMPLOYED BACK INTO THE WORKFORCE! Quit making the working class give them everything they need to remove themselves from society, and start giving them what they need to get a job, support themselves, and PUT MONEY BACK INTO THE ECONOMY before our deficit gets so bad that we default on our loans and teach China a hard lesson for trusting us with their money.
I love the 90s!
May 17th, 2011
2:14 pm
I love Newt!
Pete
May 17th, 2011
2:15 pm
The Repubs loved indivdual mandates until Obama embraced them. I’m no fan of Newt, but here he is speaking the truth. The vast majority of Americans are against the Ryan plan because it IS radical, and individual mandates are only fair. Why should I pay for your ER visits simply because you can afford health insurance but refuse to get it? I thought individual responsibility was the foundation of modern Republicanism.
joe six-pack
May 17th, 2011
2:20 pm
While I generally vote democrat and lean a bit to the left, if I had to choose a Republican to be president I’d take Gingrich simply because he has a grasp of the issues. I’ll take substance over style. Obviously, if he is so obnoxious that Congress refused to work with him, then him being President would be pointless as no one would listen to his ideas.
So he also has some moral baggage. So did Clinton but Clinton showed himself capable.
JP
May 17th, 2011
2:24 pm
While I am a Dem and no fan of Newt, I believe him to be incredibly intelligent. If he can stay on message, I think he’d be a formidable candidate.
Speaking of candidates, Kyle – what do you think of Huntsman or Daniels?
Mr. Dithers
May 17th, 2011
2:26 pm
Lefty, wasn’t this column about semantics and how you say things in order to get ideas across? The way you say things is important. President Bush learned that a little late in the game. There is a huge difference between a free market where everyone can buy as much of everything as they want and one where one can buy what they can afford. Barry’s talking about “unreasonable demand for health care” and says “everyone can purchase all the health care they want” and that is patently untrue. You just can’t ignore a statement like that. A lot of people can’t even purchase the health care they NEED in this market, let alone all they want.
Road Scholar
May 17th, 2011
2:28 pm
Why don’t the repubs cut the budget on things that THEY support? Military spending? Foreign aid? Sole source contracts? Tax breaks for businesses? Big oil?
I know the last two are “tax increases”, but there is two sides to the equation…Income and expenditures!
FEAR (False Evidence Appearing Real)
May 17th, 2011
2:29 pm
“If combat means living in a ditch, females have biological
problems staying in a ditch for thirty days because they
get infections and they don’t have upper body strength. I
mean, some do, but they’re relatively rare. On the other hand,
men are basically little piglets, you drop them in the ditch,
they roll around in it, doesn’t matter, you know. These things
are very real. On the other hand, if combat means being on an
Aegis-class cruiser managing the computer controls for twelve
ships and their rockets, a female may be again dramatically
better than a male who gets very, very frustrated sitting in
a chair all the time because males are biologically driven to
go out and hunt giraffes.”
Newt Gingrich
Classic Newt – ‘nuf said…
carlosgvv
May 17th, 2011
2:31 pm
The Republicans seem determined to present nothing but loser candidates to the public. The current Republican list is so bad it actually makes Obama look good. Could it be they think Obama can’t be beat in 2012?
wampum
May 17th, 2011
2:45 pm
According to Kyle, when the Grinch blasts Democrats with over the top rhetoric like he did in Macon, he is “on top of his game”. However, when his “not staying on message” is directed towards Republicans, his rhetoric needs to take the form of criticism and not slander.
Rather revealing Kyle.
Robert
May 17th, 2011
2:49 pm
Newt is one strange fellow. I use to see Newt all the time when I worked in DC on K St. NW. Newt was always alone, walking by himself in the park, across from his K St. law firm. People would walk up to him just to shake his hand or discuss the latest events. One morning after 9/11 I saw Newt crossing the street going into his building and I asked him who’s side are the American People on? The Arabs or the Jews? Newt said “somebody had better fugure it out or we all are in big trouble”. Newt is one republican who can either bring the American People together or divide us more than we are today. The question for Newt is what side are you on Newt? The American People or the homegrown terrorist group(s) known as the “tea party” whose weapons of choice are hatred, fear and rage/mob mentality against minorities, women, gays & lesbians and Muslims & Jews.
wampum
May 17th, 2011
2:49 pm
Staying on message means never having to tell you what their real intentions are. Kinda like hearings for supreme court nominies.
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
3:00 pm
Little Barry, what planet is that? Anyone can buy the house or car they want?
——–
Of course, you can’t buy a Ferrari unless you’re able to pay for it. Why is health care any different? You aren’t entitled to unlimited health care any more than you are entitled to a Ferrari.
JP
May 17th, 2011
3:07 pm
I don’t agree with LBB on pretty much anything, but the above is worth thinking about. It’s a real fundamental question we as a country need to decide – are folks entitled to health care even if they can’t afford it? And I am talking about basic health care. Does it matter to this country that millions of people may not be able to get basic health care. I really don’t pretend to know the answer. And I refuse to demonize either side.
Newtsworthy
May 17th, 2011
3:08 pm
Ah, the Republicans love to tell us that it takes a keen businessman to be a qualified Congressman or President. So let’s see who they’re running. Hmmmm. A bunch of career politicians, with the exception of Mitt Romney and Herman Cain.
Is that REALLY the best you guys can do to live up to your own talking points?
What??
May 17th, 2011
3:11 pm
Lil Barry-
Why is health care any different?
Cause healthcare has no equillibrium. The change is price is based of a system of assumptions that may or may not be true to a broad subset. Using you car analogy, the Ferrari’s price is based off cost plus mark-up. The cost of the parts are determined by the free market thus the price of the car is determined by the free market. The only influence on the price would then be supply as only a certain sector would spend their money willfully(key word) on the purchase of the car.
Healthcare doesn’t follow that same logic. How much is a physical is completely based off no tangible cost but time. And seeing how everyone at some point needs healthcare, the willfullness of the free market is non-existent. You can chose to buy a car, you can’t chose to not get cancer. There is no set demand and therefore no equillibrium in price.
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
3:22 pm
What??: By that logic, there can be no market price for most services, or food.
BS Aplenty
May 17th, 2011
3:24 pm
I’ve campaigned for several people over the years, most of whom were elected to the state/national office they were seeking – including Newt. My impression of Gingrich is that he is substantially more intelligent and offers a sustainable, resonant vision for the country.
I will have to say that Newt clearly offers far less of the smarmy, used-car-salesman banter of, say, an Obama. With Gingrich, you’d get the car you thought you were buying, but with an Obama you can count on the engine falling on the pavement as you leave the lot.
Newtsworthy
May 17th, 2011
3:26 pm
JP, I’m with you; I don’t agree with a damned thing that LBB says. Ever.
My mother-in-law is single, indigent and living on $800 per month disability. She takes care of herself, lives within her budget, and is a Medicaid patient.
Last week she developed a painful toothache. It costs $150 to get a tooth pulled. She has sought a dentist who accepts Medicaid but has come up empty-handed. She was living in excruciating pain until she confessed her problem and I wrote a check to cover it.
Is it right that indigent senior citizens are made to suffer through the pain of a toothache because the care that is available is beyond her limited budget? Is that how the greatest nation on the planet wishes to treat its less privileged members of society?
wampum
May 17th, 2011
3:32 pm
BS Aplenty
Very aptly named.
Linda
May 17th, 2011
3:33 pm
It is a deliberate left-wing attempt to confuse health care with health care insurance. No one is denied health care. Health care insurance does not necessarily provide health care. There is a shortage of primary care physicians & fewer & fewer of them are accepting new Medicare & Medicaid patients. Many are not accepting any insurance.
Health care insurance should work like auto insurance & hazard insurance. We pay for our tires & brakes & our paint & appliances. If health insurance kicked in only when we became sick & if we had higher copays, health care costs would decline. Unfortunately, rather than catastrophic plans, the new health bill mandates expensive comprehensive coverage.
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
3:36 pm
Is it right that indigent senior citizens are made to suffer through the pain of a toothache because the care that is available is beyond her limited budget?
——
See? Your mother in law got her tooth fixed and the taxpayers didn’t get forced to pay for it. That is precisely how things should be. It’s really unfortunate that so many are not willing to take care of their own. Greedy SOBs!
wampum
May 17th, 2011
3:38 pm
The only sustainable, resonant vision Pewt has is of himself free from the constraints of reality. He loved his country too much to be loyal to his wives. If you believe his BS, BS Aplenty, you are Gullible Aplenty.
Travis B.
May 17th, 2011
3:38 pm
@ Robert – You sound like a ‘one strange fellow,’ the way you stalked old Newt around D.C. Very creepy I have to admit. Maybe you had a man-crush, or you’re just a plain old weirdo.
What??
May 17th, 2011
3:40 pm
Kyle-
Food, you have a choice what to eat as you can get all nutrients from a variety of diets(see vegans)
Services are willfull. I can chose to let my hair grow out or cut it myself. I can chose to represent myself or hire an attorney, I can chose to take my own trash to the landfill. I can’t chose how my body reacts to outside stimuli, therefore the free market tenet of choice os out the window. The theory of free market essentially breaks down to a choice between price and demand, in healthcare my choice is either medical care or death( if that’s what you are inferring)
wampum
May 17th, 2011
3:41 pm
Right, Linda, only those that can afford it should have comprehensive health care.
Newtsworthy
May 17th, 2011
3:41 pm
Yeah, LBB, but not every indigent toothache sufferer has a deep-pocketed son-in-law to assist them, either.
Oh…Linda….the confusion over health care vs. health insurance is OWNED by the right wing. Listen to Sean Hannity yammer on that we “have the best health care in the world” when discussing changes to the payment element of our health care system. It’s obvious and offensive.
Travis B.
May 17th, 2011
3:42 pm
I’m sure Robert will go home tonight, light a few candles, play some Barry White, and enjoy the evening with his favorite Newt photos.
wampum
May 17th, 2011
3:42 pm
The rest of us can choose between eating and going to the doctor.
BS Aplenty
May 17th, 2011
3:51 pm
…not only would the engine fall on the pavement, but shortly thereafter, you’d lose your job.
Only the most inept used-car salesman could be elected president and then hang his leadership credentials on the killing a mass murderer like Osama bin Laden.
He’s as out of touch with America as George III.
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
3:59 pm
So you think that we can all have as much health care as we want? Wrong. That kind of thinking is what led so many Democrats to defaulting on their mortgages. Either YOU pay for your health care or someone else pays your bill for you. The latter are parasites and we’d be better off without them.
Chuck
May 17th, 2011
4:12 pm
Barry, you are so cold hearted that I bet you have to sun for hours each day to regulate your body temperature. You are a slimy newt! (pun intended)
Linda
May 17th, 2011
4:13 pm
Newtsworthy@3:41, The US does have the best health care system in the world. It’s just too expensive. I’ve been hearing for years when leaders from all over the world seek treatment in the US.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/25/health-hospitals-care-forbeslife-cx_avd_outsourcing08_0529healthoutsourcing.html
Americans know what their health insurance premiums cost but most have no clue what tests & procedures cost & don’t care. If we had to SHOP for these, we could bring down the costs.
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
4:15 pm
What??: You’re changing the metric and the topic. You were talking about the ability of the market to set prices. You can only choose what to eat if you can afford something to eat, right? Yet, we somehow manage to assign prices to food. And, for services, your original phrasing held that time is not enough of a tangible cost to determine properly a market price.
Why am I harping on this? Because this idea that health care somehow is a unique service, incompatible with the free-market concepts that set prices for every other necessary and optional good or service in the world, is false. And anyway, how would we know if there can be a functioning free market in health care? We haven’t tried it in decades, if not longer.
Linda
May 17th, 2011
4:16 pm
The reason GM went into the ground is because it became a health insurance company with a few cars on the side. The fed. govt. is now a health insurance company with a military.
BRW
May 17th, 2011
4:20 pm
LBB, Logic like yours led to a lot of beheadings during the French Revolution. The bourgeoisie found out the hard way that pushing the poor man continuously up against the wall only works for a time.
hsn
May 17th, 2011
4:22 pm
It was not “careless” he told the T.R.U.T.H…
Linda
May 17th, 2011
4:32 pm
It’s been reported that Ginrich earned $300 K by an ethanol lobbying group. The US energy policy includes burning 40% of our wheat in our gas tanks. It has not brought down the cost of oil. It has not brought down the temperature of the globe. What it has done is cause the 4000 products in the grocery that contain wheat & meat from the animals that eat corn, to skyrocket. How long will we put up with nonsense?
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/exports-ethanol-expectations-keep-corn-prices-high-trader-20110331-125216-599.html
With fires, tornadoes & floods devestating more wheat crops, we are in for another dip.
onpatroll
May 17th, 2011
4:42 pm
Either YOU pay for your health care or someone else pays your bill for you.
This is how it works? You sure about this? If I got to the doctor and get billed and don’t pay for it then it gets paid for by someone else and I am good to go? I am pretty sure they send it to collections just like any other bill.
Newt Gingrich: Tiffany’s conservative – Washington Post (blog) | Conservatives for America
May 17th, 2011
4:46 pm
[...] enoughArkansas Times (blog)GOP to Newt: Leave Paul Ryan Alone!TPMDCHuffington Post (blog) -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -Commentaryall 763 news [...]
MarkV
May 17th, 2011
4:47 pm
Kyle, the idea that “health care somehow is a unique service, incompatible with the free-market concepts that set prices for every other necessary and optional good or service in the world” is not false. Health care is, in many respects, unlike any other service. You are confusing the issue by using expressions like “other necessary and optional good or service.” What are the other “necessary services” that you put on the same level as health care? What do you equate with a life-saving surgery, diagnosis and treatment of a life-threatening illness?
Linda
May 17th, 2011
5:01 pm
Kyle is correct. Health care services vary in price. We can thank the self-employed, those with no insurance, those with HSA’s & those with catastrophic coverage for making health care services competitive & therefore keeping prices down. Those people without comprehensive coverage are forced to competitive shop for rates & negotiate, just like we do for other purchases.
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
5:08 pm
MarkV: No, I think you’re confusing the issue by saying health care is more important than other services (though not more important than food or shelter, which you omit when you leave “good” out of my quotation). What about health care makes it incompatible with market pricing? Right now, it’s chiefly the lack of price transparency and the dominance of third-party payer plans (which would only be exacerbated by a single-payer system). Neither of those is a feature of a free market.
Bringing up emergency situations — ostensibly because no one would take the time to check an ambulance or hospital’s prices during an emergency — is a red herring, because they account for a tiny proportion of overall health expenditures. Those situations are precisely what health insurance is for, and they are not a large driver of health insurance costs. Treatment of chronic and acute ailments is by far the larger driver, and these are the kinds of decisions that, the vast majority of the time, can be made more deliberately.
What I do know about health-care prices suggests that the market could work if given a chance. See here for more: http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2010/01/29/a-market-solution-to-health-care-pricing/
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
5:22 pm
Both health care and higher education are extremely expensive and their costs rise faster than inflation because parasites demand and vote for someone else to shield them from the cost and give them handouts and subsidies. Eliminate government meddling and the prices would stay under control at levels that are affordable.
Government IS the problem.
What??
May 17th, 2011
5:26 pm
Kyle-
Actually I changed neither the metric or the topic. The concept of Free Market is built on two tangible choices which are supply and demand. If in healthcare you are saying that there is a shortage of supply of equipment and doctors…that’s the supply side, but there is no demand equivalent to set the equillibrium price, as all at some point need healthcare. Using your food, the market can set the price of an apple because
a. There is a supply
b. There is limited demand. Everyone doesn’t eat apples.
c. Before you say everyone has to eat, a homeless man eats out a garbage can. You can eat without affecting the supply or demand. In healthcare, if you get sick, what are your choices, get some form of help, or die. There is no trashed healthcare lying around. Thus the shortage of demand never actually exist. Name one field with infinite demand.
As to your second point, no truly free market has ever existed(perfect market). All markets at some point are subject oto some form of gov’t interference. The closest thing to a free market in what..Hong Kong…the government owns all the land there and you have to rent it.
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
5:37 pm
“Name one field with infinite demand.”
Um, food. And shelter. If there is such a thing as “infinite demand.”
You keep trying to dodge it, but there really is no difference between food and health care in theory. The homeless man example is a baseless example, because he would certainly qualify for food stamps (and Medicaid, for that matter).
Why are food stamps more sufficient than Medicaid often is? Because food is priced according to market logic, and the government doesn’t try to force grocery stores less for food-stamp recipients’ apples than other people pay for apples.
What I’ve been trying to say is that health care only appears like a case of “if you get sick, what are your choices, get some form of help, or die” because we have a convoluted system for pricing and providing health care. Your chief complaint really boils down to the fact that not everyone can afford the health care they need. My suggestion is that this is not because health care is somehow unique — except in the way that government interferes in the health-care market.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 17th, 2011
5:38 pm
Gingrich has already chopped off his own legs, cut off his nose, shot himself in the azz, and look, he’s reaching for the knife again.
ew
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
5:38 pm
Anywho, we are at best only tangentially still on the topic of Newt Gingrich.
Linda
May 17th, 2011
6:04 pm
Newt makes Herman Cain look like a winner.
MarkV
May 17th, 2011
6:12 pm
Kyle: I am quite surprised by the poor quality of your arguments, I would have expected more from you. First you confuse health care with health care insurance or other forms of payments. Then you claim that I have brought in emergency situations. I have not. Neither life-saving surgery nor diagnosis and treatment of life-threatening illness are necessarily emergency situations that you mention. Actually, “diagnosis and treatment of a life-threatening illness” that I mentioned and falls into the categories of “treatment of chronic and acute ailments” that you list among the larger driver. But the main fallacy of your arguments is that you can approach health situations the same way as choosing a TV set, car purchase, bank or whatever else in the marketplace. It just does not work that way.
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
6:26 pm
The fact that health care doesn’t work like other markets is PRECISELY the problem. Those with the loser entitlement mentality think they should be given all the healthcare they want and that they shouldn’t have to pay. Stupid.
MarkV
May 17th, 2011
6:41 pm
Herman Cain joins Donald Trump in the list of Republican nomination jokes.
Linda
May 17th, 2011
6:50 pm
Donald Trump was a Democrat. Herman Cain is a patriot.
Michael H. Smith
May 17th, 2011
7:00 pm
Newt couldn’t have won the general for the same reason Hilary couldn’t won in ‘08 – Their negatives are far too high. The left has been waiting on Newt like than right was waiting on Hilary.
However, Newt has so damaged himself with the GOP and many conservatives he has probably ended any hopes he held for a political future: Though, he is a very smart man, so smart that at times he out smarts himself, as it appears he has done now.
Michael H. Smith
May 17th, 2011
7:11 pm
Herman Cain is definitely at the top of my to watch list: He’s looking better as time goes by, so I’ll continue Raising Cain!
John
May 17th, 2011
7:13 pm
“The fed. govt. is now a health insurance company with a military.”
Really? So now we buy our health insurance from the federal government? Why then, am I making my checks out to Blue Cross/Blue Shield of GA?
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
7:19 pm
MarkV: Where did I conflate health care with health insurance? I wrote about health-care prices and noted one particular type of health care — emergency care — for which health insurance is particularly useful and capable of handling. If I wrongly took your example of “life-saving surgery” to mean an emergency surgery, it’s because that’s the example people often give as a type of health care for which consumers can’t take the time to sort out prices, etc. But I didn’t intend to put words in your mouth.
All that said, it is LOL funny to see you write that the quality of my arguments is poor, and then offer, as your sole alleged “argument” for why health care is a different sort of thing, “It just does not work that way.”
Well, if you say so!
Linda
May 17th, 2011
7:29 pm
John@7:13, Do you even know how much of the fed. govt.’s budget goes toward health care & how much that will increase under Obamacare?
MarkV
May 17th, 2011
7:38 pm
Kyle, I did not go into arguments why health care is different simply to keep the post short, in other words, I made it as a statement, not an argument. But here is how I would start: One of the main differences between free market decisions regarding goods and services is the much higher unpredictability of the health situations. People like to talk about healthy and unhealthy lifestyles and the health issues, but there are too many examples of people not fitting there. This is the main fallacy of the free market insurance argument, as if we knew in advance what illness or accident we would have so that we could choose the right health insurance plan. The outcry heard from people regarding Ryan’s plan to replace Medicare is in large part based on the understanding of what it would mean – that unlike now, elderly people would be expected to choose from a multiple of private insurance plans and be basically at mercy of the advertising people. There is also a big difference between selecting other goods and services and health care, because most people cannot be expected to get all the information in the complex field of medicine to apply free market principles. Or are we to get health care from lowest bidders?
There is much more one could write, but the perhaps the main point is that people like you advocate “free market principles” as a slogan or generality, but with nothing specific to show how those principles would be applied.
Jack
May 17th, 2011
8:01 pm
*Newt’s taking enought hits w/o Wingfield piling on.
What??
May 17th, 2011
8:03 pm
Kyle-
The homeless man would qualify for food stamps..I thought we were discussing the concept in the confines of a free market. I’m sure they would..except, I see a lot of homeless people in downtown Atlanta and they don’t seem to have food stamps. Also, food in general has infinite demand in the concept of everyone needs food, but how many substitute goods are there for a single food item. If I don’t like apples, I can get oranges..how many substitutes are there for healthcare. If I have cancer, there is no real point in which I wouldn’t pay for the cure. If you raise the price of an apple, I can buy a pear. Isn’t the concept of a free market is that at some point price, supply, and demand are in balance. Maybe my point was too generic. And if you believe food is priced through a market logic, I got a bridge to sell you.
As far as health care cost being convoluted, how is that a product of government interference in non medicare/medicaid instances. If that was the case, then private insurance would be subject to market forces even within the confines of the state. But yet, insurance cost keep going up.
Bart Abel
May 17th, 2011
8:11 pm
Without reading the entire thread, I’m going to take my chances and wade into this discussion about whether health care is somehow unique and should somehow be priced according to market logic. The fact is that health care IS unique.
1. In a free market, there is complete transparency of both pricing and services. If such transparency is even possible in the health care market, health care providers are going out of their way to hide that fact. Try comparing services and prices for a non-emergency surgery. I’ve done it, and you simply can’t get that information. Providers either wouldn’t give me any information or they were vague because they can’t. Maybe that’s the nature of the beast. I don’t know. But the point is, if no transparency, then no free market.
2. In a free market, the buyer has the option of not purchasing the product or service. Of course, that’s not a reasonable option when it comes to health care.
3. In a free market, a user has the option of purchasing a less expensive and/or lower quality product or service. Of course, that’s not a reasonable option when it comes to health care.
4. In a free market, buyer and seller have equal bargaining power. Deriving from the points above, that’s not necessarily true when it comes to health care.
To some extent, the points above apply to health insurance too.
Some have compared health care/health insurance to food. The price of food is transparent. The buyer can and does choose lower quality and/or lower priced options. And unlike a necessary health care treatment or procedure, buyers can say no to a particular food item if the price climbs too high.
No. The ingredients are not in place for health care to work in a free market. I wish they were, but they’re not.
Government intervention is necessary to seek to increase the supply of quality health care providers, find ways to prevent providers from gouging customers who don’t have the option of saying no or going with a lower quality product or service, and to bargain on behalf of the health care consumer to give us the buying power we need to have access to health care at affordable prices.
Obama Supporter to the end
May 17th, 2011
8:48 pm
You ask – Anybody siding with Newt?
His mama and his fake blond wife
Obama Supporter to the end
May 17th, 2011
8:51 pm
Newt practices dog whistle politics and he is a professor of idiocy!!!
Linda
May 17th, 2011
8:56 pm
Obama Supporter, What is your very favorite Obama policy? I can’t help but notice that the Obama supporters just spout whereas Obama opponents have credible reasons to oppose his policies. Do you know the difference between progressives & Democrats?
Mad as Zell
May 17th, 2011
9:22 pm
Something really must be done about this right on right violence. It’s getting out of hand. Some say it’s all the fault of the left but I think it’s time the right community took responsibility for their actions.
midtownguy
May 17th, 2011
9:28 pm
Newt cooked his own goose. The criticism of fellow Republicans (what was Ronnie Reagan’s number one rule?), the multiple divorces/wives, the Tiffany’s bill. He, in a sort of opposite way, reminds me of Bill Clinton, smart but flawed. Only Bill Clinton’s flaws didn’t come to light until after he was elected.
MrLiberty
May 17th, 2011
9:50 pm
How do you know she’s a witch?
Well she turned me into a Newt!
She turned you into a Newt?
Well I got better.
America will be a lot better as soon as we get rid of this Newt and realize that Ron Paul has always been the best candidate for president that any party could put forth.
Linda
May 17th, 2011
10:08 pm
Ron Paul is 74 & will be 76 on election day.
Mari
May 17th, 2011
10:13 pm
Now Sarah, do you understand why President Obama uses the teleprompter? Newt should try it sometime. Tee, hee, hee!
Obama Supporter to the end
May 17th, 2011
10:19 pm
@Linda May 17th, 2011 8:56 pm
Don’t try to insult my intelligence. I would not be on this blog if I were am idiot.
I don’t have to prove anything you. I know enough that I would not vote for a Republican. So don’t try that old trick on me, trick!!
Mongo
May 17th, 2011
10:21 pm
It doesn’t really matter who the Cons nominate anyway. There will still be FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
Home School Drop Out
May 18th, 2011
12:18 am
Mr. Speaker Newt and President Clinton had a plan to save Social Security.
It is supposed to be on The History Chanell in the future.
But they both got caught eating MAN CANDY and lost their POLITICAL CREDIT.
Zadoc Paet
May 18th, 2011
1:33 am
I love Newt’s comments. I think he accidentially let the truth out. Oops.
Poll: Is Newt Gingrich correct that Republican plan for Medicare is right-wing social engineering?
Link: http://www.wepolls.com/r/433476
Michael H. Smith
May 18th, 2011
3:42 am
When someone finds this “Free Market”, let me know please? When government isn’t regulating the market, corporations and businesses are manipulating the market. So now tell me, what undue interference is the market free from, or of: It surely is not managed by a puritanical rule of supply and demand enforced by the element of competition alone that determines the results and outcomes, the winners or losers.
Then there is this wrong headed idea the left espouses that says “they are going to replace medicare”. Yeah, right! Has the left marked the words transition or transform out of their dictionaries? Funny how the left was so taken with these words when their messiah spoke them. They were real words then but not when it applies to healthcare and a departure from government over-dependence they no longer exist or have any meaning.
I’m still convinced the concept of healthcare/mutual healthcare insurance member owned and administered Co-ops are the best choice for the majority of people in this country.
USMC
May 18th, 2011
6:53 am
I WOULD STILL VOTE FOR NEWT GINGRICH OVER OBAMA 8 DAYS A WEEK
HDB
May 18th, 2011
7:51 am
“This episode further lends credence to the idea that Gingrich is about Gingrich first, foremost and last.” — YA THINK??
Lil’ Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
12:52 pm
“Wrong, Sounds. The only workable solution is the free market solution, in which the price mechanism balances the unreasonable demand for health care with the delivery system’s capacity. In a free market system everyone is able to purchase all the health care they want, and no one gets stuck with someone else’s bill.”
LBB…free market economics CAN’T work with health care! You nor any conservative have given the proper counter to this example; what say you??
Example: A person in NY buys a policy from MS (note insurance purchased across state lines). Person discovers that he has cancer and is treated at Sloan-Kettering. Insurance company will only pay at MS rates…which is only 15% coverage (that’s all the person can afford). How do you spell BANKRUPTCY?
Expanded example: Same as above…..but to fill in the gap, person is able to afford additional coverage. Insurance companies argue over WHICH is the PRIMARY coverer…and NEITHER pays!!!
Extra: Person buys coverage in GA and while on a trip, uses the family doctor in IA…GA insurance WON’T pay…even though the family doctor is on the same system as the GA doctors…..(this has happened to ME!).
What say you???
infinite demand
May 18th, 2011
8:17 am
Food and shelter? WRONG
I have shelter. I am not seeking more shelter in order to save my life.
I have a full belly. I am not seeking more food.
I have cancer. I have insurance or medicare and I am seeking EVERY possible solution, no matter the cost to save my life.
That’s infinite demand.
Alecia
May 18th, 2011
8:53 am
Newt has to much baggage and will more than likely not get the nomination. I would love to see a discussion or thread on Herman Cain.
The Snark
May 18th, 2011
9:31 am
Side with Newt? Which Newt? There’s a new one every couple of days.
Gman
May 18th, 2011
9:52 am
Keep talking GOPers! This gets better and better everyday!
MrLiberty
May 18th, 2011
10:08 am
Ron Paul has actively and forcefully objected to GOP positions on the economy time and time again. In every case he has been correct and in every case he has stood his ground, not appologized, and been found to be correct in the end.
Committed, principled governance is what this country needs, not just another flip-flopping amphibian. And so what if he will be 76 on election day. He doesn’t plan on running the country, just protecting our rights. I’ll take a principled older guy over the cast of idiot neocons running against him anyday, regardless of their age.
Pinche Huevos
May 18th, 2011
10:10 am
More buffonery from GOP ….OBAMA 2012
Say what?
May 18th, 2011
10:11 am
Newt just went on FOX News to say that any ad created by Democrats that quote what he said on the Sunday talk shows about the Paul Ryan budget being “social engineering” would be a lie. What a freaking idiot. At least own up to it Newt… don’t say it, then if someone quotes you call them a liar. Makes YOU look like the liar. But that is what Newt does best… lies to the voters… lies to his many wives… the guy is an ego-driven, pathological liar.
Maybe
May 18th, 2011
10:13 am
Perry/Christie 2012
Pinche Huevos
May 18th, 2011
10:19 am
More rightwing toxic nonsense…GOp……LOSERS>>>>>>>
retiredds
May 18th, 2011
2:56 pm
Here’s Newt’s most recent response:
Gingrich had already sensed Democrats would mobilize to use his words – describing Ryan’s plan as “right-wing social engineering” – against his party. In a Fox News interview on Tuesday night, he insisted: “Let me say on the record, any ad which quotes what I said Sunday is a falsehood. I have said publicly, those words were inaccurate and unfortunate.”
In other words folks I lied. Even though I truly believe them, I can’t justify them and be a conservative Republican at the same time. So please vote for me because I am so smart and I don’t say one thing one day and something else the next.
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 18th, 2011
6:51 pm
infinite demand
I have cancer. I have insurance or medicare and I am seeking EVERY possible solution, no matter the cost to save my life. That’s infinite demand.
———————
I wish you well. Please note, however, that your desire for EVERY possible solution does not constitute a legitimate claim to my property.
independent thinker
May 18th, 2011
10:37 pm
Okay so another GOP bufoon has gotten in the clown car after Trump left with Obama’s foot up his rearend, so whose next? 1/2 brain Bachman?
independent thinker
May 18th, 2011
10:53 pm
BS Aplenty said:
“I will have to say that Newt clearly offers far less of the smarmy, used-car-salesman banter of, say, an Obama. With Gingrich, you’d get the car you thought you were buying, but with an Obama you can count on the engine falling on the pavement as you leave the lot.”
I am sure Newt’s first two wives would dispute they got the husband who promised to honor obey and cherish them. The Bimbo he is currently married to made sure to get plenty iof nsurance since she did not trust the Newtron -$500,000 plus in jewelry from Tiffany’s. Newt sponsored in 1983 a single payer health care system which was pure socialism but yet he calls Obama a socialist. Both oxycotton king – Rush Limbaugh and Paul Rryan lambasted Gingrich for his comments in the last two days but yet you consider him more trustworthy than Obama-
Now I see why the Republicans screw up the country every time they are in the White House- Watergate 1972, fall of South Vietnam1975, debacle in Lebanon in 1983, Iran-Contra 1987; no WMD found in Iraq-2003, Tora Bora-2001 but you think Gingrich is the man- I can sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for $10,000.00 if Gingrich signs the agreement???
independent thinker
May 19th, 2011
8:47 pm
Is it remotely possible Kyle and his Repub buds realize they have a circus on their hands with one clown after another claiming to be the Repub savior? Now lets give Palin and Bachman their chance in the three ring cicus to show what dimwits they are. Anyone who thought that philandering hypocritical “has been” gasbag who used to be Speaker of the House could open his mouth for more than five minutes without offending 3/4 of the country, has got be a village idiot too. What sensible politician spends 1/2 million in jewelry on some plastic bimbo because he wants to “reinvent” himself?