On Newt Gingrich’s careless right-on-right attack
All manner of conservative lawmakers and conservative opinion makers are declaring Newt Gingrich’s presidential chances dead after his Sunday morning bad-mouthing of the House Republicans’ plan for reforming Medicare. A few thoughts of my own:
- Not 48 hours before his ill-advised remarks on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” in which he described the Medicare plan as a “radical” form of “right-wing social engineering,” Gingrich gave a hard-hitting speech at the Georgia GOP convention in Macon that made attendees think the former Speaker was back at the top of his game. This kind of inconsistency, compounded by two days of back-pedaling since Sunday, is one of Gingrich’s biggest problems.
- If anything could redeem Mitt Romney’s otherwise stupefying decision to stand by his Massachusetts health reforms, Gingrich’s inconsistency just might be it.
- As I mentioned in another comment thread earlier today, this episode also gives one the impression that he’s an “ideas man” who doesn’t put much thought into how he talks about ideas. That’s a bad habit to have for someone seeking an office that comes with intense scrutiny of every word uttered by its holder.
- This episode further lends credence to the idea that Gingrich is about Gingrich first, foremost and last. A Republican candidate interested in becoming president so that he can work with a GOP majority in the House, and perhaps the Senate, would not even be tempted to paint those fellow Republicans’ plans in a way that practically writes the opposition’s campaign commercials. That doesn’t mean he has to endorse every Republican idea out there, or even that he can’t openly disagree with some of them. But a critique is not the same thing as slander. It shouldn’t have been too hard to say, instead, something like, “I think the American people might well accept the House GOP plan down the road, but I think our first priority should be to take measures X, Y and Z, while we work on fine-tuning the House GOP plan and educating the public about it.”
- The specific confrontation this episode sets up between Gingrich and Rep. Paul Ryan, the budget chairman who authored the wide-ranging plan, a clear contrast between yesterday’s face of GOP thinking and today’s face. And I don’t think that’s a comparison that favors Gingrich. After all, if Republicans wanted a chance to distance themselves from Ryan and his plan, Gingrich’s remarks gave them that opportunity. The fact that no one is jumping on it says a lot about which man’s vision is more embraced.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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130 comments Add your comment
wampum
May 17th, 2011
2:49 pm
Staying on message means never having to tell you what their real intentions are. Kinda like hearings for supreme court nominies.
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
3:00 pm
Little Barry, what planet is that? Anyone can buy the house or car they want?
——–
Of course, you can’t buy a Ferrari unless you’re able to pay for it. Why is health care any different? You aren’t entitled to unlimited health care any more than you are entitled to a Ferrari.
JP
May 17th, 2011
3:07 pm
I don’t agree with LBB on pretty much anything, but the above is worth thinking about. It’s a real fundamental question we as a country need to decide – are folks entitled to health care even if they can’t afford it? And I am talking about basic health care. Does it matter to this country that millions of people may not be able to get basic health care. I really don’t pretend to know the answer. And I refuse to demonize either side.
Newtsworthy
May 17th, 2011
3:08 pm
Ah, the Republicans love to tell us that it takes a keen businessman to be a qualified Congressman or President. So let’s see who they’re running. Hmmmm. A bunch of career politicians, with the exception of Mitt Romney and Herman Cain.
Is that REALLY the best you guys can do to live up to your own talking points?
What??
May 17th, 2011
3:11 pm
Lil Barry-
Why is health care any different?
Cause healthcare has no equillibrium. The change is price is based of a system of assumptions that may or may not be true to a broad subset. Using you car analogy, the Ferrari’s price is based off cost plus mark-up. The cost of the parts are determined by the free market thus the price of the car is determined by the free market. The only influence on the price would then be supply as only a certain sector would spend their money willfully(key word) on the purchase of the car.
Healthcare doesn’t follow that same logic. How much is a physical is completely based off no tangible cost but time. And seeing how everyone at some point needs healthcare, the willfullness of the free market is non-existent. You can chose to buy a car, you can’t chose to not get cancer. There is no set demand and therefore no equillibrium in price.
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
3:22 pm
What??: By that logic, there can be no market price for most services, or food.
BS Aplenty
May 17th, 2011
3:24 pm
I’ve campaigned for several people over the years, most of whom were elected to the state/national office they were seeking – including Newt. My impression of Gingrich is that he is substantially more intelligent and offers a sustainable, resonant vision for the country.
I will have to say that Newt clearly offers far less of the smarmy, used-car-salesman banter of, say, an Obama. With Gingrich, you’d get the car you thought you were buying, but with an Obama you can count on the engine falling on the pavement as you leave the lot.
Newtsworthy
May 17th, 2011
3:26 pm
JP, I’m with you; I don’t agree with a damned thing that LBB says. Ever.
My mother-in-law is single, indigent and living on $800 per month disability. She takes care of herself, lives within her budget, and is a Medicaid patient.
Last week she developed a painful toothache. It costs $150 to get a tooth pulled. She has sought a dentist who accepts Medicaid but has come up empty-handed. She was living in excruciating pain until she confessed her problem and I wrote a check to cover it.
Is it right that indigent senior citizens are made to suffer through the pain of a toothache because the care that is available is beyond her limited budget? Is that how the greatest nation on the planet wishes to treat its less privileged members of society?
wampum
May 17th, 2011
3:32 pm
BS Aplenty
Very aptly named.
Linda
May 17th, 2011
3:33 pm
It is a deliberate left-wing attempt to confuse health care with health care insurance. No one is denied health care. Health care insurance does not necessarily provide health care. There is a shortage of primary care physicians & fewer & fewer of them are accepting new Medicare & Medicaid patients. Many are not accepting any insurance.
Health care insurance should work like auto insurance & hazard insurance. We pay for our tires & brakes & our paint & appliances. If health insurance kicked in only when we became sick & if we had higher copays, health care costs would decline. Unfortunately, rather than catastrophic plans, the new health bill mandates expensive comprehensive coverage.
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
3:36 pm
Is it right that indigent senior citizens are made to suffer through the pain of a toothache because the care that is available is beyond her limited budget?
——
See? Your mother in law got her tooth fixed and the taxpayers didn’t get forced to pay for it. That is precisely how things should be. It’s really unfortunate that so many are not willing to take care of their own. Greedy SOBs!
wampum
May 17th, 2011
3:38 pm
The only sustainable, resonant vision Pewt has is of himself free from the constraints of reality. He loved his country too much to be loyal to his wives. If you believe his BS, BS Aplenty, you are Gullible Aplenty.
Travis B.
May 17th, 2011
3:38 pm
@ Robert – You sound like a ‘one strange fellow,’ the way you stalked old Newt around D.C. Very creepy I have to admit. Maybe you had a man-crush, or you’re just a plain old weirdo.
What??
May 17th, 2011
3:40 pm
Kyle-
Food, you have a choice what to eat as you can get all nutrients from a variety of diets(see vegans)
Services are willfull. I can chose to let my hair grow out or cut it myself. I can chose to represent myself or hire an attorney, I can chose to take my own trash to the landfill. I can’t chose how my body reacts to outside stimuli, therefore the free market tenet of choice os out the window. The theory of free market essentially breaks down to a choice between price and demand, in healthcare my choice is either medical care or death( if that’s what you are inferring)
wampum
May 17th, 2011
3:41 pm
Right, Linda, only those that can afford it should have comprehensive health care.
Newtsworthy
May 17th, 2011
3:41 pm
Yeah, LBB, but not every indigent toothache sufferer has a deep-pocketed son-in-law to assist them, either.
Oh…Linda….the confusion over health care vs. health insurance is OWNED by the right wing. Listen to Sean Hannity yammer on that we “have the best health care in the world” when discussing changes to the payment element of our health care system. It’s obvious and offensive.
Travis B.
May 17th, 2011
3:42 pm
I’m sure Robert will go home tonight, light a few candles, play some Barry White, and enjoy the evening with his favorite Newt photos.
wampum
May 17th, 2011
3:42 pm
The rest of us can choose between eating and going to the doctor.
BS Aplenty
May 17th, 2011
3:51 pm
…not only would the engine fall on the pavement, but shortly thereafter, you’d lose your job.
Only the most inept used-car salesman could be elected president and then hang his leadership credentials on the killing a mass murderer like Osama bin Laden.
He’s as out of touch with America as George III.
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
3:59 pm
So you think that we can all have as much health care as we want? Wrong. That kind of thinking is what led so many Democrats to defaulting on their mortgages. Either YOU pay for your health care or someone else pays your bill for you. The latter are parasites and we’d be better off without them.
Chuck
May 17th, 2011
4:12 pm
Barry, you are so cold hearted that I bet you have to sun for hours each day to regulate your body temperature. You are a slimy newt! (pun intended)
Linda
May 17th, 2011
4:13 pm
Newtsworthy@3:41, The US does have the best health care system in the world. It’s just too expensive. I’ve been hearing for years when leaders from all over the world seek treatment in the US.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/25/health-hospitals-care-forbeslife-cx_avd_outsourcing08_0529healthoutsourcing.html
Americans know what their health insurance premiums cost but most have no clue what tests & procedures cost & don’t care. If we had to SHOP for these, we could bring down the costs.
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
4:15 pm
What??: You’re changing the metric and the topic. You were talking about the ability of the market to set prices. You can only choose what to eat if you can afford something to eat, right? Yet, we somehow manage to assign prices to food. And, for services, your original phrasing held that time is not enough of a tangible cost to determine properly a market price.
Why am I harping on this? Because this idea that health care somehow is a unique service, incompatible with the free-market concepts that set prices for every other necessary and optional good or service in the world, is false. And anyway, how would we know if there can be a functioning free market in health care? We haven’t tried it in decades, if not longer.
Linda
May 17th, 2011
4:16 pm
The reason GM went into the ground is because it became a health insurance company with a few cars on the side. The fed. govt. is now a health insurance company with a military.
BRW
May 17th, 2011
4:20 pm
LBB, Logic like yours led to a lot of beheadings during the French Revolution. The bourgeoisie found out the hard way that pushing the poor man continuously up against the wall only works for a time.
hsn
May 17th, 2011
4:22 pm
It was not “careless” he told the T.R.U.T.H…
Linda
May 17th, 2011
4:32 pm
It’s been reported that Ginrich earned $300 K by an ethanol lobbying group. The US energy policy includes burning 40% of our wheat in our gas tanks. It has not brought down the cost of oil. It has not brought down the temperature of the globe. What it has done is cause the 4000 products in the grocery that contain wheat & meat from the animals that eat corn, to skyrocket. How long will we put up with nonsense?
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/exports-ethanol-expectations-keep-corn-prices-high-trader-20110331-125216-599.html
With fires, tornadoes & floods devestating more wheat crops, we are in for another dip.
onpatroll
May 17th, 2011
4:42 pm
Either YOU pay for your health care or someone else pays your bill for you.
This is how it works? You sure about this? If I got to the doctor and get billed and don’t pay for it then it gets paid for by someone else and I am good to go? I am pretty sure they send it to collections just like any other bill.
Newt Gingrich: Tiffany’s conservative – Washington Post (blog) | Conservatives for America
May 17th, 2011
4:46 pm
[...] enoughArkansas Times (blog)GOP to Newt: Leave Paul Ryan Alone!TPMDCHuffington Post (blog) -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -Commentaryall 763 news [...]
MarkV
May 17th, 2011
4:47 pm
Kyle, the idea that “health care somehow is a unique service, incompatible with the free-market concepts that set prices for every other necessary and optional good or service in the world” is not false. Health care is, in many respects, unlike any other service. You are confusing the issue by using expressions like “other necessary and optional good or service.” What are the other “necessary services” that you put on the same level as health care? What do you equate with a life-saving surgery, diagnosis and treatment of a life-threatening illness?
Linda
May 17th, 2011
5:01 pm
Kyle is correct. Health care services vary in price. We can thank the self-employed, those with no insurance, those with HSA’s & those with catastrophic coverage for making health care services competitive & therefore keeping prices down. Those people without comprehensive coverage are forced to competitive shop for rates & negotiate, just like we do for other purchases.
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
5:08 pm
MarkV: No, I think you’re confusing the issue by saying health care is more important than other services (though not more important than food or shelter, which you omit when you leave “good” out of my quotation). What about health care makes it incompatible with market pricing? Right now, it’s chiefly the lack of price transparency and the dominance of third-party payer plans (which would only be exacerbated by a single-payer system). Neither of those is a feature of a free market.
Bringing up emergency situations — ostensibly because no one would take the time to check an ambulance or hospital’s prices during an emergency — is a red herring, because they account for a tiny proportion of overall health expenditures. Those situations are precisely what health insurance is for, and they are not a large driver of health insurance costs. Treatment of chronic and acute ailments is by far the larger driver, and these are the kinds of decisions that, the vast majority of the time, can be made more deliberately.
What I do know about health-care prices suggests that the market could work if given a chance. See here for more: http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2010/01/29/a-market-solution-to-health-care-pricing/
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
5:22 pm
Both health care and higher education are extremely expensive and their costs rise faster than inflation because parasites demand and vote for someone else to shield them from the cost and give them handouts and subsidies. Eliminate government meddling and the prices would stay under control at levels that are affordable.
Government IS the problem.
What??
May 17th, 2011
5:26 pm
Kyle-
Actually I changed neither the metric or the topic. The concept of Free Market is built on two tangible choices which are supply and demand. If in healthcare you are saying that there is a shortage of supply of equipment and doctors…that’s the supply side, but there is no demand equivalent to set the equillibrium price, as all at some point need healthcare. Using your food, the market can set the price of an apple because
a. There is a supply
b. There is limited demand. Everyone doesn’t eat apples.
c. Before you say everyone has to eat, a homeless man eats out a garbage can. You can eat without affecting the supply or demand. In healthcare, if you get sick, what are your choices, get some form of help, or die. There is no trashed healthcare lying around. Thus the shortage of demand never actually exist. Name one field with infinite demand.
As to your second point, no truly free market has ever existed(perfect market). All markets at some point are subject oto some form of gov’t interference. The closest thing to a free market in what..Hong Kong…the government owns all the land there and you have to rent it.
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
5:37 pm
“Name one field with infinite demand.”
Um, food. And shelter. If there is such a thing as “infinite demand.”
You keep trying to dodge it, but there really is no difference between food and health care in theory. The homeless man example is a baseless example, because he would certainly qualify for food stamps (and Medicaid, for that matter).
Why are food stamps more sufficient than Medicaid often is? Because food is priced according to market logic, and the government doesn’t try to force grocery stores less for food-stamp recipients’ apples than other people pay for apples.
What I’ve been trying to say is that health care only appears like a case of “if you get sick, what are your choices, get some form of help, or die” because we have a convoluted system for pricing and providing health care. Your chief complaint really boils down to the fact that not everyone can afford the health care they need. My suggestion is that this is not because health care is somehow unique — except in the way that government interferes in the health-care market.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 17th, 2011
5:38 pm
Gingrich has already chopped off his own legs, cut off his nose, shot himself in the azz, and look, he’s reaching for the knife again.
ew
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
5:38 pm
Anywho, we are at best only tangentially still on the topic of Newt Gingrich.
Linda
May 17th, 2011
6:04 pm
Newt makes Herman Cain look like a winner.
MarkV
May 17th, 2011
6:12 pm
Kyle: I am quite surprised by the poor quality of your arguments, I would have expected more from you. First you confuse health care with health care insurance or other forms of payments. Then you claim that I have brought in emergency situations. I have not. Neither life-saving surgery nor diagnosis and treatment of life-threatening illness are necessarily emergency situations that you mention. Actually, “diagnosis and treatment of a life-threatening illness” that I mentioned and falls into the categories of “treatment of chronic and acute ailments” that you list among the larger driver. But the main fallacy of your arguments is that you can approach health situations the same way as choosing a TV set, car purchase, bank or whatever else in the marketplace. It just does not work that way.
Lil' Barry Bailout
May 17th, 2011
6:26 pm
The fact that health care doesn’t work like other markets is PRECISELY the problem. Those with the loser entitlement mentality think they should be given all the healthcare they want and that they shouldn’t have to pay. Stupid.
MarkV
May 17th, 2011
6:41 pm
Herman Cain joins Donald Trump in the list of Republican nomination jokes.
Linda
May 17th, 2011
6:50 pm
Donald Trump was a Democrat. Herman Cain is a patriot.
Michael H. Smith
May 17th, 2011
7:00 pm
Newt couldn’t have won the general for the same reason Hilary couldn’t won in ‘08 – Their negatives are far too high. The left has been waiting on Newt like than right was waiting on Hilary.
However, Newt has so damaged himself with the GOP and many conservatives he has probably ended any hopes he held for a political future: Though, he is a very smart man, so smart that at times he out smarts himself, as it appears he has done now.
Michael H. Smith
May 17th, 2011
7:11 pm
Herman Cain is definitely at the top of my to watch list: He’s looking better as time goes by, so I’ll continue Raising Cain!
John
May 17th, 2011
7:13 pm
“The fed. govt. is now a health insurance company with a military.”
Really? So now we buy our health insurance from the federal government? Why then, am I making my checks out to Blue Cross/Blue Shield of GA?
Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2011
7:19 pm
MarkV: Where did I conflate health care with health insurance? I wrote about health-care prices and noted one particular type of health care — emergency care — for which health insurance is particularly useful and capable of handling. If I wrongly took your example of “life-saving surgery” to mean an emergency surgery, it’s because that’s the example people often give as a type of health care for which consumers can’t take the time to sort out prices, etc. But I didn’t intend to put words in your mouth.
All that said, it is LOL funny to see you write that the quality of my arguments is poor, and then offer, as your sole alleged “argument” for why health care is a different sort of thing, “It just does not work that way.”
Well, if you say so!
Linda
May 17th, 2011
7:29 pm
John@7:13, Do you even know how much of the fed. govt.’s budget goes toward health care & how much that will increase under Obamacare?
MarkV
May 17th, 2011
7:38 pm
Kyle, I did not go into arguments why health care is different simply to keep the post short, in other words, I made it as a statement, not an argument. But here is how I would start: One of the main differences between free market decisions regarding goods and services is the much higher unpredictability of the health situations. People like to talk about healthy and unhealthy lifestyles and the health issues, but there are too many examples of people not fitting there. This is the main fallacy of the free market insurance argument, as if we knew in advance what illness or accident we would have so that we could choose the right health insurance plan. The outcry heard from people regarding Ryan’s plan to replace Medicare is in large part based on the understanding of what it would mean – that unlike now, elderly people would be expected to choose from a multiple of private insurance plans and be basically at mercy of the advertising people. There is also a big difference between selecting other goods and services and health care, because most people cannot be expected to get all the information in the complex field of medicine to apply free market principles. Or are we to get health care from lowest bidders?
There is much more one could write, but the perhaps the main point is that people like you advocate “free market principles” as a slogan or generality, but with nothing specific to show how those principles would be applied.
Jack
May 17th, 2011
8:01 pm
*Newt’s taking enought hits w/o Wingfield piling on.
What??
May 17th, 2011
8:03 pm
Kyle-
The homeless man would qualify for food stamps..I thought we were discussing the concept in the confines of a free market. I’m sure they would..except, I see a lot of homeless people in downtown Atlanta and they don’t seem to have food stamps. Also, food in general has infinite demand in the concept of everyone needs food, but how many substitute goods are there for a single food item. If I don’t like apples, I can get oranges..how many substitutes are there for healthcare. If I have cancer, there is no real point in which I wouldn’t pay for the cure. If you raise the price of an apple, I can buy a pear. Isn’t the concept of a free market is that at some point price, supply, and demand are in balance. Maybe my point was too generic. And if you believe food is priced through a market logic, I got a bridge to sell you.
As far as health care cost being convoluted, how is that a product of government interference in non medicare/medicaid instances. If that was the case, then private insurance would be subject to market forces even within the confines of the state. But yet, insurance cost keep going up.