Obama’s ‘internationalist’ approach has failed
Daniel Henninger at The Wall Street Journal writes a harsh obituary for the internationalist school of dealing with foreign crises. Time and place of death: March 2011, Libya:
Not the 28 members of NATO, not the 15-member U.N. Security Council, not the 22 nations of the Arab League could save Libya’s rebels from being obliterated by the mad and murderous Moammar Gadhafi. The world has just watched the collapse of internationalism.
The world’s self-professed keepers of international order, from Brussels to Turtle Bay, huffed and puffed, talked and threatened. And they failed. Utterly.
But what we’ve watched is not merely the failure of the gauzy notion of “internationalism.” It’s more specific than that. What has collapsed here is the modern Democratic Party’s new foreign-policy establishment.
Barack Obama is the first Democratic president to assemble a foreign-policy team made up entirely of intellectuals who for years have developed a counter-thesis to the policies of presidents extending back to John F. Kennedy. We are in a “post-American world,” they have argued, in which the U.S. is obliged to pursue its interests in concert with the rest of the world’s powers, never alone.
The uprisings against autocracies in 10 separate Middle Eastern countries, a crisis inherited from no one, was their real-world test. In Egypt, they fumbled. In Libya, they have failed.
The poster boy for this internationalist view is White House deputy Ben Rhodes, who told a reporter last week: “This is the Obama conception of the U.S. role in the world — to work through multilateral organizations and bilateral relationships to make sure that the steps we are taking are amplified.”
Days later, bemused Libyan rebel spokesman Essam Gheriani remarked in Benghazi: “Everyone here is puzzled as to how many casualties the international community judges to be enough for them to help. Maybe we should start committing suicide to reach the required number.”
The piece is for subscribers only, but the rest of it is well worth reading if you can access it.
There are no simple alternatives to President Obama’s approach — one can hardly call it a strategy — with Libya. A no-fly zone would not have been without some risk, although it’s hard to imagine that the Libyan air force could really mount a threat that would greatly outweigh the benefits such action would have brought the rebels.
But the point today is not so much that Obama took one action when he should have taken another; it’s a little late for that. It’s more about whether Obama’s alternative model for dealing with these crises works. As Henninger so starkly explains, it hasn’t.
And Libya is not the first failure. In the first Gulf War, in Bosnia and Kosovo, and in Afghanistan — the supposed “good” wars — the “international community” only stepped forward when America led. Henninger calls Libya the “first test” of the model when America doesn’t eventually step forward, but I’d disagree. In Darfur and in Congo, to name two places, we went along with the internationalist approach — while hundreds of thousands of people died.
This is not a plea for Team America: World Police, with U.S. soldiers going hither and yon every time some tinpot dictator gets cranky or worse. We have every right to expect our allies to commit and contribute along with us if they are going to lecture the world (and us) about peace and human rights. But evidently we cannot reasonably expect them to do so when we are noncommittal — if “noncommittal” is what you can really call it when the U.S. president says repeatedly that the leader of another country must step down and then does nothing of consequence to follow through.
As Henninger explains,
what we have seen [with Libya] is that a world in which the U.S. doesn’t unmistakably lead is a world that spins its wheels, and eventually the wheels start to come off. When the U.S. instructs the Saudis not to intervene in Bahrain, and the Saudi army does precisely the opposite, the wheels are coming off the international order.
America has been leading unmistakably for the better part of a century now. If you think we can’t afford the price of doing so anymore, whether in blood or treasure, fine. But no responsible leader, on his way out, can pretend that things will run smoothly on their own after he leaves. And no responsible leader drops the reins and merely hopes someone else will pick them up.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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200 comments Add your comment
@@
March 17th, 2011
11:15 am
With Obama it’s always been the “words matter” approach. No actions on foreign policy are necessary.
He has been, for me, at least, the most frustrating “leader” I’ve ever witnessed. He’s so-o-o-ooo detached from the world around him.
I often picture him getting up in the morning, going to his mirror and asking…”Mirror, mirror, on the wall…whose the greatest of them all?”
To which his reflection replies “Why you are, Mr. President, but then you already knew that.”
The world around him is but a distraction. A child playing the part of president is what we have.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 17th, 2011
11:22 am
The Western World and the Arab League talk a good game but that’s as far as it goes. The lesson to people fighting for a change, anywhere in the World is, you’re going to have to do it on your own. Don’t expect help from anybody.
MC
March 17th, 2011
11:24 am
So what do you suggest Kye. A couple more wars that can’t be won? Duhhhhh!!
MC
March 17th, 2011
11:25 am
Isn’t staying out of the affairs of other nations a TRUE conservative core belief?
Wyle Kingfield
March 17th, 2011
11:28 am
We should have put in McCain and Palin and we would be in the land of milk and honey right now. We would have a tax cut that would support vouchers, another war and we would be gushing in oil from ANWAR. Gas would be a quarter a gallon. Only problem, I would have nothing to write about and be out of a job.
Guy Incognito
March 17th, 2011
11:34 am
@MC
Look, your Comunity Organizer n Chief is getting ready to start another war
“White House Asks U.N. to Approve Strikes on Libya
URGENT: Obama administration seeking U.N. authorization for wide range of strikes on Qaddafi’s regime”
jconservative
March 17th, 2011
11:36 am
Wow!
Republicans have been asking for decades why America always has to do “it” alone.
Now someone has refused to do “it” alone and Republicans are crying real tears.
For decades Democrats have deservedly had the title of the party that starts wars, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Bosnia, Kosovo. Remember Bob Dole blasting the idea of nation building?
Then Bush 43 invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and military adventures became not only accepted but relished. Nation Building became the “IN” thing to do. Now it is the Republicans who want to lay claim to the party that starts wars. So be it.
If the Arab League wants to vote to have a no fly zone, which they did, why did they not send in “Arab League” air forces to enforce a no fly zone? Egypt, with the best air force among the Arab nations, is right next door. An Arab League enforced no fly zone could have been launched from Egyptian bases.
Now if my fellow citizens want to reinstate the mandatory military draft and go back to the good old days, have at it.
The good old days. Yeah, I remember! Reagan putting his tail between
his legs and slinking out of Lebanon after 241 marines were killed. The good old days!
Gm
March 17th, 2011
11:37 am
Let see, we should go remove libya leader and get 4500 more American troops kill like Bush did.
Thank God we have a smart not rush to judge ment President, and not trying to be macho and get our troops killed.
MC
March 17th, 2011
11:40 am
Barry Goldwater was a TRUE conservative. If one compared Obama’s foreign policy to these neoconned republicans, I wonder who Goldwater would finger as the conservative? The hands off guy or the crowd that never saw a war they didn’t want to fight even when they know they can’t win?
MC
March 17th, 2011
11:41 am
Chicken Hawk republicans are the real budget busters in this country. Wars cost.
@@
March 17th, 2011
11:42 am
Although Iraq may have ended in a ground war, there’s no reason to believe implementing a no-fly zone in Libya would end up the same way. A no-fly zone existed over Iraq between 1992 until 2003.
The Libyan people (protesters) are being outgunned by an oppressive regime. Quaddafi doesn’t see individual life as sovereign. So why should we give a second thought to his nation’s sovereignty as long as he’s the leader?
Based on everything I’m reading, I believe implementation of a no-fly zone is in the works.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 17th, 2011
11:46 am
Based on everything I’m reading, I believe implementation of a no-fly zone is in the works.
It’s probably too late for it to do any good now, in my opinion.
@@
March 17th, 2011
11:47 am
A war and no-fly zone are two totally different things. Put an end to Qaddafi’s genocide, then haul his a$$ before a tribunal for his part in the Lockerbie bombing.
reebok
March 17th, 2011
11:48 am
Let’s see, if President Obama acts on the international front, he’s meddling and nation-building…if he doesn’t, he’s standing by and being ineffectual. It’s not difficult to formulate a train of thought when the answer is always ‘Obama is WRONG.’
Gm
March 17th, 2011
11:49 am
Listen to fat slob, high school drop out, never served a day in the military Rush Limbaugh and 3 time colleg drop out, coward Sean Hannity criticize the President for not sending troops to libya, these are the trash middle class white conservative listen to.
No wonder this country is last in everything and still living in the 20th century.
MC
March 17th, 2011
11:50 am
Too bad this time he’s right huh reebok? I love seeing the conned try to wiggle around what is obviously prudent policy given the fact that we are already bogged down in 2 unwinnable wars.
@@
March 17th, 2011
11:51 am
Hillbilly:
It’s probably too late for it to do any good now, in my opinion.
You may be right but as long as the rebels are still calling for one, we’ve gotta help ‘em. Remember the Kurds. In spite of Saddam’s slaughter, they still support the U.S..
MC
March 17th, 2011
11:53 am
Ditto Gm! And I bet you most of these chicken hawks never served a day either nor would they let their little darlings fight. Every single day I hear republican war hawks start giving all kinds of excuses about why they never served. Damn near everyone of them have bad knees. LMAO!
Kyle Wingfield
March 17th, 2011
11:57 am
All: As I said, it’s fine if you don’t think we ought to lead in these crises. My question is, who do you think will lead, if not America? Or do you just not care?
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 17th, 2011
11:57 am
@@
I’m not at all opposed to the No Fly Zone but if they’d done it a week or two ago, this thing might already be over.
If Quaddafi prevails, I wonder what that will do to the movements in other countries in the MidEast.
Georgia Voter
March 17th, 2011
11:58 am
If KW woke up at the gates of Heaven, he’d be blaming Obama for having to stand in line to see Peter.
The Obama administration did not fumble in Egypt, and they haven’t failed in Libya. In both cases, there are no easy or obvious answers, putting Obama critics in an ideal position from where they can criticize him no matter what he does.
If we got involved in Libya, the WSJ would still criticize Obama’s team for being “internationalists” and would be whining that the U.S. shouldn’t be acting as the policemen of the world. It’s especially ironic that the WSJ uses Bosnia as an example, because Clinton critics from the right opposed our intervention, and leadership, in that conflict with that very “anti-World Police” argument. Remember candidate Governor Bush’s “humble foreign policy, anti-nation building” campaign? It was in response to Clinton’s intervention in Bosnia. Republican voters ate it up.
Their arguments aren’t consistent from one situation to the next, one President to the next, or even one day to the next. It works like this: see what Obama does, and argue the opposite.
Kyle Wingfield
March 17th, 2011
11:59 am
And, if you answer my previous questions with something like “no one” and “no,” do you think we as Americans are better off in a more chaotic world?
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:01 pm
“Our notions of war and national defense are also heavily influenced by assumptions of technological mastery. If ours is the most powerful military on the planet, with the biggest guns, the fastest planes and the coolest laser-guided missiles, shouldn’t we smash our enemies to smithereens?
Indeed, those assumptions, made by many who should know better, seem to underlie the current clamor in Congress for the U.S. to intervene in Libya. Among others, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), both veterans of an earlier era of warfare, have prodded the Obama administration to impose a no-fly zone to prevent Muammar Gaddafi from slaughtering his own people.
But as many Pentagon experts have pointed out, there is no risk-free way to intervene, even with the best, the biggest, the coolest military hardware. Besides, there are political implications to consider that do not give way to aerial bombardments.”
Damn Kyle! Cynthia Tucker has more common sense than you.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:03 pm
That’s not the point Kyle. It’s their country. We have no right to intervene in their affairs any more than they in ours. Meddling in the affairs of other nations has come back to biter us in the butt over and over and over and you want to keep on making the same old mistakes.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:04 pm
Did we lead in Rwanda or Sierra Leone Kyle?
Kyle Wingfield
March 17th, 2011
12:07 pm
Nope, MC, we didn’t. Two more examples.
I understand you don’t think we should intervene. Fine. But do you think it’s “meddling” to call on Gadhafi to step down, to say we are “tightening the noose” around his neck — that is, encouraging the rebels — and then stand back? If we’re going to be noninterventionists, let’s be noninterventionists. This is the same mistake George H.W. Bush made with Iraq, openly encouraging the Kurds to rebel and then watching as Saddam slaughtered them (for those of you who think I’m just an Obama basher).
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:10 pm
Hillbilly:
What it will do is already being exhibited in Bahrain. A paper tiger is nothing they will concern themselves with. Although that one’s a bit more difficult for Obama. Given it’s strategic location and majority Shiite population with a Sunni led government, I’m thinking Iran may be meddling in that one.
Have you ever watched a parent who says to their misbehaving child…”One more time and I’m gonna have to ????? That’s after the child’s repeated the same negative behavior three times already. Threats mean nothing. Actions speak louder than words.
Granted, if we didn’t already have Qaddafi, dead to right on the Lockerbie bombing, things might be a bit more complicated. It makes no sense to wait until he’s killed his people and then prosecute.
Like I said…Bahrain’s more complicated. Libya’s pretty straightforward in my opinion.
TBone
March 17th, 2011
12:12 pm
You see in the old days the US provided leadership when the rest of the world nutted-up and our interests were at stake. Now we get paralysis of analysis but we are enlightened with our community organizer. Unfortunately, nothing in this guy’s past has given him any experience in the real world so we will sit and wait for someone to make a decision. Sad very sad.
jt
March 17th, 2011
12:12 pm
“My question is, who do you think will lead, if not America?”
How about the people.?
Not that I like Obama, or ANY Federal politician*, but it is a GOOD thing not to back up failed diplomacy with young American coffin-stuffers.
You war-mongers are sick.
*Except for the peace/liberty loving Ron Paul.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:13 pm
No Kyle. Any intervention now is failed history repeating itself. Let this play out. You have no idea who these rebels are. Wait to see who we are dealing with lest we have another Khomeini or Osama on our hands. Remember him Kyle? The “rebel” we supported in Afghanistan all those years ago. No way is any type of military intervention logical. As for the encouragement you may have a point. Obama shouldn’t have said a darn thing. We should have stayed totally out of it.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 17th, 2011
12:15 pm
Have you ever watched a parent who says to their misbehaving child…”One more time and I’m gonna have to ?????
It’s like the parent who says, “I’m going to count to 10″. That insures bad behavior, at least until 9.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:19 pm
That’s exactly the problem Tbone. We allowed dictators to rape and pillage their own countries by strong arming the people of that country because of our interest there. What don’t you get about it’s not our country? Now we are up to our azz in Alligators all over the world because of the exact policies that you guys think work sooooo well.
jt
March 17th, 2011
12:20 pm
“Obama’s ‘internationalist’ approach has failed”
I guess you need a stack of coffins for success in the progressive neo-con world.
Sir Ronald Reagen didn’t need to impress a bunch of neo-con chicken-hawk never served perpetual deferred arm-chaired punks.
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:23 pm
MC:
That’s hindsight which is why I’m thinking a no-fly zone will go no further than that. With the Arab League leading the way, there’s no way they can bad-mouth the U.S. after the fact.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:23 pm
Who do you recommend Tbone? Dick Cheney? LMAO! Halliburton loves you though. Guys like you make guys like them extremely happy.
Jefferson
March 17th, 2011
12:23 pm
So why don’t you just take your butt up to DC and revolt since you love Libyans more than your president. Good luck.
Kyle Wingfield
March 17th, 2011
12:24 pm
jt @ 12:12: Did “the people” do it all on their own in the American revolution? Mostly, yes. All, no. And @ 12:20: Reagan never intervened??
MC @ 12:13: I can live with that answer.
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:26 pm
jt:
a bunch of neo-con chicken-hawk never served perpetual deferred arm-chaired punks.
If you don’t mind my saying, you’re getting a bit personal here.
What’s bound to happen will happen with or without a bunch of bloggers’ approval.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:28 pm
Think back @@. A no fly zone in Bosnia didn’t do a damn thing. It still resulted in genocide. Damn right it’s hindsight. In other words it’s history that needs to be learned from. When did a no fly zone ever work to the advantage of ground forces that are outgunned and out manned on the ground? Name one. And the ones where we had to eventually commit troops on the ground doesn’t count.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:29 pm
Unless your ultimate agenda is more ground troops committed to another quagmire.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:29 pm
Thank you Kyle.
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:32 pm
MC:
Qaddafi’s having to bring in mercenaries to fly those planes. Makes me wonder just how effective he’d be without planes for them to fly.
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:34 pm
MC:
And I’m curious…do you have proof that Qaddafi’s numbers outweight those of the rebels or are you mistaking air-power for numbers?
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:35 pm
Oops!
outweigh, not outweight.
HDB
March 17th, 2011
12:36 pm
Those that keep asking for intervention are the same ones that keep desiring to CUT the federal budget….and persist to state that this nation is in a precarious economic position. If we can’t finance two wars and the nation in the present economic climate….how can this nation AFFORD the price tag it’ll require for military intervention? Will this nation finally SUPPORT a TAX INCREASE to pay for our military explorations??
jt
March 17th, 2011
12:38 pm
Kyle Wingfield
Mr. Reagan kept the body count to a minimum…Lobbing a few bombs was more effective in the long run than a stupid protracted UN(or whoever) orchestrated “no fly” policy. ..And a “bunch of neo-con chicken-hawk never served perpetual deferred arm-chaired punks” was not aimed at you.” It was aimed at people like Chambliss, who never hesitates to send our youth into the fray, but his own policies here in America (War on Drugs) kill more American kids than all terrorists combined.
You probably aren’t a chicken hawk perpetually deferred arm-chaired punk, but you must admit, you are a neo-con.
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:38 pm
Those that keep asking for intervention are the same ones that keep desiring to CUT the federal budget….and persist to state that this nation is in a precarious economic position.
Don’t we already have aircraft carriers with warplanes sitting atop ‘em? I know bombs are pricey, but we’re in the vicinity anyway so…..
carlosgvv
March 17th, 2011
12:39 pm
I seem to remember it was Republican Bush who got us into Iraq and Afganistan. Obama seems to realize American is not king of the world and cannot gallop to the rescue of every country that needs help. Republican McCain, for one, has yet to grasp this.
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:40 pm
Do “neo-cons” vote for Democrats?
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:40 pm
Maybe there are people who want us in another war for no other reason than it sucks Obama into the same mistakes Bush made and negates one of the primary screw ups of the Bush Administration when it comes to political dialog. Much like the Clinton did it too argument.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:41 pm
Not if the Kristols have their way @@.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:43 pm
@@ you know it never ends with just the bombs. Now does it?
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:43 pm
MC:
Then I’m not yours or Kristol’s neo-con.
HDB
March 17th, 2011
12:44 pm
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:38 pm
Questions: Can this nation afford to escalate our use of military force when the military is ALREADY stretched thin as it is due to the two Bush excursions into Iraq and Afghanistan…and without a tax INCREASE to fund it?? Can we FINALLY admit that cuts in domestic spending are predicated upon further enrichening those of means while subtly destroying the middle class??
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:45 pm
MC:
@@ you know it never ends with just the bombs. Now does it?
But this could be a turning point.
Personally, I’d prefer we weren’t militarily engaged in Afghanistan. I’m giving Obama and Petraeus the benefit of a doubt on that one, although reluctantly.
jt
March 17th, 2011
12:45 pm
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:40 pm
Do “neo-cons” vote for Democrats?
Neo-cons vote for whoever or whatever will strengthen the State. Basically, Neo-cons are progressives but are too ashamed to admit it.The only big difference between progressives and neo-cons is how the loot is split up.
Neo-cons look to government for protection, money and retirement management, and oftentimes wealth.
See statism.
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:46 pm
HDB:
See my 12:45.
HDB
March 17th, 2011
12:48 pm
jt
March 17th, 2011
12:45 pm
Lest you forget….neo-cons will commit someone ELSE’S children to fight their battles under the guise of “American power” while not having served their country in wartime…..but profitting from the decision…….
@@
March 17th, 2011
12:48 pm
jt:
Neo-cons look to government for protection, money and retirement management, and oftentimes wealth.
That ain’t me.
You and I are probably in agreement on over 95% of the issues. I read you over at jay’s.
jt
March 17th, 2011
12:55 pm
HDB
I do not forget. I live it everytime I hear Chambliss or Isackson speak.
@@
“That ain’t me”
It IS you……..more so than you know.
In this coming election, you will vote for someone that has NEVER mentioned doing away with SS entirely, stopping the War on Drugs, and critizing the War on Terror.
Regardless, you are a cool and smart chick that maybe will get a clue one day.Vote Libertarian.
I am out. Happy St. Pat’s day.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:58 pm
Come on @@. History doesn’t back that up. Maybe staying out of it totally will create the best result. I’d bet on it. At least we’d know exactly what the situation is and who we are dealing with as opposed to being already committed to something that might already be FUBAR and then have to keep plowing down the same row while trying to clean up the mess that results from being imprudent.
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:59 pm
The compulsion to do “something” gets us in more trouble than we can get out of or pay for.
HDB
March 17th, 2011
1:01 pm
MC
March 17th, 2011
12:59 pm
“The compulsion to do “something” gets us in more trouble than we can get out of or pay for.”
Is THAT an UNDERSTATEMENT or what??
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:04 pm
@@ while Afghanistan might be the most hopeless…and history illustrates the idiocy of engaging there, of the 3 it is probably the most justifiable. I will never criticize Bush for Afghanistan even though it is time to get out. But Iraq was totally uncalled for. Now people want to go that same route.
@@
March 17th, 2011
1:06 pm
O.K., so jt’s gone, but:
It IS you……..more so than you know.
In this coming election, you will vote for someone that has NEVER mentioned doing away with SS entirely
I think a phase out is fair. No need to make a bunch of trusting ol’ folks swallow the bitters when they’ve already made their contributions, socially, culturally and financially.
stopping the War on Drugs
That one’s a bit personal for me, but I’m willing to give it a go provided no one asks me to foot the bill for the weak willed addicts.
critizing the War on Terror
It do exist! Granted, there may be different ways to implement it, but give up on it altogether? Nope! Not willing to do THAT.
I’m flexible on one…concede on one…and am firm on one.
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:06 pm
Yes probably greatly understated HDB. You can go back hundreds of years with the things we should have stayed out of. Things that have directly caused a lot of messes today.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
March 17th, 2011
1:06 pm
Dear Kyle, glad you magnified the Henninger article, it also struck me as apt (even in its harshness.) He’s usually pretty good.
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:11 pm
@@ it doesn’t take the Department of Homeland Security and it’s bloated, budget busting cost to fight the war on terrorism. The war on drugs is another waste of money. But it makes money so we’re stuck with it.
@@
March 17th, 2011
1:14 pm
MC:
Bin Laden is NOT in Afghanistan. Hasn’t been since we forced him into no-man’s land. He’s pretty much lost support in the Arab world. The Taliban isn’t interested in influencing anything outside its’ own country.
If, thru satellite surveillance, we see where they’re harboring terrorist camps…we bomb ‘em…each and every time. I’m more in favor of what Gingrich proposed. Helping them build an infrastructure to the more rural areas and giving them alternatives to livelihood. Not the poppy fields that help fund the terrorists.
Oh, forgot. If we can’t convince them to let US manage their opiate fields for medicinal purposes (with pay), then torch them too.
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:21 pm
No @@ but Afghanistan can be directly linked to terrorism. To hell with Osama. He died at Tora Bora most likely. Iraq was stupidity. And by the way @@. The Gingrich way was tried when the USAID tried to convince Thais in the Golden Triangle to grow potatos. THat’s been tried in Latin America too. LMAO! All Newt’s idea will do is give them a better infrastructure to move their product. You guys need to get over Newt. And anyway what did I say @@. It’s time to get the hell out of there too. But in the aftermath of 9/11 Afghanistan was 100% justified. It isn’t now.
Wyle Kingfield
March 17th, 2011
1:24 pm
A little dash of shock and awe will save the country and should get those oil revenues flowing.
Hey everybody! We’re rich!
@@
March 17th, 2011
1:25 pm
I’ve always thought a flamethrower would look good on me.
The jumpsuit? Naahhh.
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:26 pm
And in the grand scheme of things @@ bin Laden is the fly on the elephants butt IF he’s alive. Nothing but a symbol. Killing him is like killing Pablo Escobar, El Chapo Guzman, et al. The organization always survives their demise.
@@
March 17th, 2011
1:29 pm
MC:
If, at first you fail, then nevah, EVAH try again? No tweaks? No corrections?
Admit it….you’re an isolationist, aren’t you?
No man is an island unto himself. No country either.
I’m out!
Aquagirl
March 17th, 2011
1:32 pm
Awesome. It’s not like 2 or 3 tours of duty is enough for our military members. Let’s go for the double digits! Hey, it’s not like any of you KeyBoard Warriors have to get out there!
Henninger reminds me of the old men in All Quiet On The Western Front, sitting on their butts discussing all the brilliant ways they would win the war, while the soldier on leave from the REAL war just sits and stares.
There are always plenty of boys conjuring up imaginary brigades and moving them all around on maps. Idiots.
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:41 pm
Ok @@. Tell us how to tweak a no fly zone. The point is to not become involved until we know who and what we are dealing with when this all washes out. I know waiting until the facts are in and then making a plan based on facts is alien to some but it works rather well. If acknowledging that it is someone else country, someone else business, and the right of that country to conduct it’s affairs without interference, then I guess I might be isolationist leaning @@. Staying out of some things in our history would probably have served us well today.
Terd Fergesun
March 17th, 2011
1:41 pm
MC
March 17th, 2011
11:41 am
Chicken Hawk republicans are the real budget busters in this country. Wars cost.
Here is a perfect example of a dumba** liberal. How long has Obama kept us in a war? The title of this article sums up the idiots presidency, total failure. To make things worse, they continue to blame Bush for their failures. They are like little kids and act like total morons. The world disrespects us more now then they ever did under Bush. That speaks volumes.
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
1:42 pm
Gm: “Thank God we have a smart not rush to judge ment President, and not trying to be macho and get our troops killed.”
It’s really easy not to rush to judgment when you have better things to do like going to concerts and playing golf. I’m really waiting for the day when enough of you Obamazombies wake up and realize just how bad Obama is for this country.
Do I think it’s America’s job to police the world? No, or at least it shouldn’t be. If the UN was worth a darn we might not have to. But as long as the UN issues unenforced resolutions, and desires to put countries like Libya on the Human Rights Council, then someone has to step up.
Sadly, Obama isn’t the man to step up, mainly because he seems to think that America is no longer exceptional, and that we shouldn’t have been in the first place. He has openly stated that his policies will force energy costs higher, that he plans to bankrupt the coal industry. He gave in to the liberal fear or risk after the Deepwater Horizon incident, proclaiming a moratorium on deepwater drilling. To me that was like having one of those massive car pileups like you see out west during sandstorms, and then shutting down the auto manufacturers as a result.
He is, without doubt, the most frustrating President of my lifetime.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
March 17th, 2011
1:42 pm
Dear @@ @ 1:25, I have often thought about you holding a flame-thrower and without a jumpsuit.
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:43 pm
Does Dick Cheney come to mind Aquagirl?
JF McNamara
March 17th, 2011
1:43 pm
jconservative @ 11:36,
Thank You for saying it.
I think Obama has handled the “crisis” perfectly. Its not our problem. Its Libya’s problem. If the world wants to do something collectively, then fine. If not, we should do nothing. We aren’t the world’s nanny, and we’ve got our own problems to solve.
Not to mention that we don’t even know who the opposition is. They could be better or worse than Khadafi. Unless Republicans want us to be there 10 years in another quagmire, he’s done the sensible thing.
Roekest
March 17th, 2011
1:45 pm
Kyle,
Congrats for summarizing an article I already read this morning in the WSJ. Did I ever mention that I think AJC is nothing but a rag??? Sounds familiar……
Try something original.
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:45 pm
Here we go again. According to the Terd somehow it is Obama’s fault that he has to clean up the mess from 2 wars that GWB started. It’s a hell of a lot harder to get out than in. Remember Vietnam Terd. But thanks for the great example illustrating what results when “terds” try to think.
Aquagirl
March 17th, 2011
1:46 pm
MC, nah, the old men in the movie were deluded and clueless, not actively evil b@stards.
TBone
March 17th, 2011
1:46 pm
History is replete with examples of allowing the people of various nations decide their own fate and it ain’t always a happy ending. Iran still hasn’t played itself out but it is a train wreck. There will always be leaders and followers and humans left to their devices do not always operate with their fellow mans’ best interest. So perhaps steering some of these things is not always a bad idea.
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:46 pm
Or “terds” come with their FOX News talking points. Nice try Terd.
Sandra
March 17th, 2011
1:47 pm
Kyle and some of you others,
Face the truth about yourselves for a change. If the President said it was night you would say it was day even if you could clearly look out the window and see it was pitch dark.
You have no objectivity where he is concerned and therefore ANYTHING he does you and your ilk will disagree with. Therefore to with me and others who look at both sides you lost any credibility a long time ago. And no, I do not agree with everything he says and does. I take each situation as it comes.
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:48 pm
But they have the right to that unhappy ending don’t they Tbone. I guess it’s ok with you when other nations meddle in our affairs too, huh?
Terd Fergesun
March 17th, 2011
1:49 pm
Hey JF McNamara, great he is going to solve our probelms. When? In between golf and concerts or how about this term since it will be his last. Nice rose colored glasses you have on. By the way, Clinton said he regrets everyday for not acting on the genocide that was going on in Africa during his time. Good thing bonehead regrets nothing he does because he thinks he thinks he is always right. Great leadership.
Terd Fergesun
March 17th, 2011
1:50 pm
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:46 pm
Or “terds” come with their FOX News talking points. Nice try Terd.
Oh, now FOX is to blame. Do you have a thought on your own or do you get your thoughts from Madcow or someone else on msnbc? Think on your own. And if you by chance are thinking on your own, God you are stupid!
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:53 pm
I haven’t heard GW or deadeye Dick admit their mistake with Iraq Terd. You want to talk about a pair that will never admit wrong or failure look no further than that crew. What didn’t they screw up for someone else to fix? I wish like hell that McCain and Palin had to “fix” this mess. Now that would be very very funny. Even though I do have to admit I like McCain.
Terd Fergesun
March 17th, 2011
1:54 pm
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:45 pm
Here we go again. According to the Terd somehow it is Obama’s fault that he has to clean up the mess from 2 wars that GWB started. It’s a hell of a lot harder to get out than in. Remember Vietnam Terd. But thanks for the great example illustrating what results when “terds” try to think
Like I said, think on your own. The blame Bush game only plays on libtards like yourself. In the meantime, someone is going to have to come in a clean up after Obama. That should be lots of fun for the poor soul and our country. Now, ask what Madcow would say and post it.
R is for Recession
March 17th, 2011
1:54 pm
What a crock. The conservatives are blaming Obama, blah blah. Gaddafi pulled the wool over George W’s and his administrations eyes (which as we now know, wasn’t difficult to do…) And now it is all Obama’s fault.
In September 2008, U.S. Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice became the first Secretary of State to visited Libya since 1953 and said about the visit; “It demonstrates that when countries are prepared to make strategic changes in direction, the United States is prepared to respond.” This happened even though we knew he was implicated in Lockerbie, and was forging closer and closer relationships with Venezuala and Chavez.
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
1:55 pm
MC – Let me get the straight. It’s okay to blame Bush for today’s economy because of the wars. Is it okay to blame Clinton for the initial recession since it was under his watch that the tech bubble rose to the point of popping and subprime lending was pushed as a meas of realizing the American dream? Put someone in a house, even if they can’t afford it. How about this one: can we blame Clinton also for the continuation of the wars as a result of faulty intelligence? After all, it was under the Clinton administration that Jamie Gorelick made it far too difficult for intelligence agencies to communicate.
No, you’re right. Let’s just blame George Bush. Heck, I blame George Bush for the Civil War. Not Libya’s. Ours.
Junior Samples
March 17th, 2011
1:55 pm
So “less government” is immune our oil supply?
Let’s face the facts, we do not care about Libya in a human rights aspect. It’s only their oil we want. Stop kidding yourselves. The rest of the world is waiting for us to jump in and sacrifice our soldiers instead of theirs.
Since Nixon, EVERY President has stated we need to reduce and/or remove our dependancy of foreign oil.
How about we start now?
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:55 pm
More Terd logic, or lack thereof. Maybe you should try some real thought Terd. Tell us why we should get ourselves into another mess. Try hard Terd. It might not be as hard as you think.
TBone
March 17th, 2011
1:56 pm
It happens more often they we find out. I don’t agree with much anything you have to say, MC, and I am pretty sure that you won’t change my mind nor will I change yours on most issues but the name calling and personal attacks from primarily the left leaners is becoming old. I have to go teach some physics now.
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
1:59 pm
Junior @ 1:55 – I agree with reducing and removing our dependence on foreign oil, I just don’t yet see any of the alternative methods working. I did hear someone say the other day that if we drilled for oil domestically that the oil had to go on the global market and I didn’t understand that. Is it not the right of a country to have “first dibs” on a natural resource occuring within the bounds of that country?
Terd Fergesun
March 17th, 2011
1:59 pm
Yeah your right MC, they should have left Saddam in and kill a few more thousands of people. You libtards are OK with genocide. I mean that is basically what you are telling people on here today. You are Ok with a dictator like Khadafi killing thousands because it is not our problem. Yet, you are all concerned about a prison in Cuba housing terrorists because it is American. You speak out of both sides of your a** and then tell us we are the idiots. You all prove that a college education means nothing today except that you live in a fantasy world. If you are not college educated then you make the case that our public education blows.
MC
March 17th, 2011
1:59 pm
No Good Grief. It’s about not repeating the mistakes of the past. Anything wrong with that?
Aquagirl
March 17th, 2011
2:01 pm
Better yet, Terd, tell us what YOU are prepared to do to fix the mess you’re so anxious to create— Besides sitting in your hidey-hole and bashing Obama. Slapping a yellow ribbon on your SUV doesn’t get the job done either.
Terd Fergesun
March 17th, 2011
2:02 pm
Junior Samples
March 17th, 2011
1:55 pm
So “less government” is immune our oil supply?
Let’s face the facts, we do not care about Libya in a human rights aspect. It’s only their oil we want. Stop kidding yourselves. The rest of the world is waiting for us to jump in and sacrifice our soldiers instead of theirs.
Since Nixon, EVERY President has stated we need to reduce and/or remove our dependancy of foreign oil.
How about we start now?
OK Junior, then you must be for drilling in our own backyard?
Road Scholar
March 17th, 2011
2:03 pm
How would we pay for it? Will conservatives, esp Rush, Boortz, and Hannity not only pay for it from their bloated salaries, but lead the charge into Libya?
Or is it the conservative’s idea of a jobs program?
MC
March 17th, 2011
2:03 pm
What is the logic in intervening in Libya Terd? You keep trying to deflect away from the subject. Try that on somebody else.
MiltonMan
March 17th, 2011
2:04 pm
Just about any piece written about Obozo can use any interation of the word “fail”
Terd Fergesun
March 17th, 2011
2:04 pm
Aquagirl
March 17th, 2011
2:01 pm
Better yet, Terd, tell us what YOU are prepared to do to fix the mess you’re so anxious to create— Besides sitting in your hidey-hole and bashing Obama. Slapping a yellow ribbon on your SUV doesn’t get the job done either.
Real simple girl, you end this in 2 weeks by doing a no fly zone like the FRENCH want to do and start helping the rebels. You force the dictator out by helping and aiding the rebels. Lybia is no Iraq military and is very small. By the way, I do not have an SUV and I do not have a yellow ribbon on a car. Thanks for caring.
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
2:05 pm
MC – I’m all for not repeating the mistakes of the past. I’m just tired of hearing liberals act like only Republicans have made mistakes. We have to study history and learn from it. Look at the countries that seem to have all the things liberals want this country to have and tell me if they are better off.
MC
March 17th, 2011
2:06 pm
Maybe common sense dictates that at this point in time we don’t get ourselves into another war we can’t win and that will cost tons of money Terd.
Terd Fergesun
March 17th, 2011
2:07 pm
You intervene because it is the right thing to do for mankind. I know that is a tough concept to wrap around your little liberal mind. Most issues that have a correct answer or response do that to liberals. Come on now, I have faith in you MC. Not really but, it felt like the right thing to say.
joe
March 17th, 2011
2:07 pm
Couple that with his failed domestic policy, using legislation and liberal court appointees in trying to turn the USA into France or Greece (socialism-entitlements-spread the wealth around), you end up with one huge disaster in the white house. God help us…
MiltonMan
March 17th, 2011
2:07 pm
Obozo praises the Egyptian protestors as peaceful – the same “peaceful” people who ended up beating journalists & Christians
Obozo criticizes American Tea Party members as being un-patriotic & racists.
Obozo does absolutley nothing in regards to Libya.
This clown needs to make a guest appearance on the Dr. Phil show.
MC
March 17th, 2011
2:08 pm
Johnson made a big one Good Grief. Unfortunately a very big mistake has been made by the last administration. I would say the same if a Dem screwed it up like that. But I get the feeling some of you want Obama to jump and screw this up so he has something in common with the last crew.
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
2:08 pm
“How would we pay for it? Will conservatives, esp Rush, Boortz, and Hannity not only pay for it from their bloated salaries, but lead the charge into Libya?
Or is it the conservative’s idea of a jobs program?”
***
You mean like the “shovel-ready” programs Obama talked up? Or like the practice of hiring a census worker, firing that person, hiring them back in the same position, firing them again, hiring them once more, and calling it three jobs created? Or what about the bloated salaries of a select group of 535 people in Washington DC who don’t seem to give a rat’s a** about their constituents and the desires of the people but are more concerned with being re-elected.
BW
March 17th, 2011
2:09 pm
Kyle
Wow….I do wonder what our response we would have mounted if most of our armed forces weren’t bottled up in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why do you pretend this has nothing to do with being “noncommittal”? This is a post America world because we are in these boondoogles with not much light at the end of the tunnel in one of them. If Europe can’t get off their collective asses when a country that provides 10% of their oil tries to free itself of a madman, then in my opinion it’s just a reflection of that old phrase…better the devil we know than the one we don’t. I don’t see any calls out of you regarding the Saudi Arabian or Bahrain governments autocratic rule….make no mistake one day their people will yearn for freedom and make a move…I wonder what you will say then?
Terd Fergesun
March 17th, 2011
2:09 pm
MC
March 17th, 2011
2:06 pm
Maybe common sense dictates that at this point in time we don’t get ourselves into another war we can’t win and that will cost tons of money Terd.
Do you know anything about the lybian military or are you just clueless like our President with world affairs? I mean good God, you make them sound like the Chinese army. Did you see them firing rockets off the back of pick ups? And no, that was not the rebels that was some of his military might.
MiltonMan
March 17th, 2011
2:09 pm
Good the see the Demorats like Ellison crying like a little girl because his peace-loving religion is being investigated.
How about the peace loving Demorats in DC shooting up a republican candidates office windows???
Aquagirl
March 17th, 2011
2:10 pm
Oh, so you’re volunteering to go fly over Libya. Terd? Have at it. What are you waiting for? If it’s only going to take you two weeks to clear all this up, you can do it on vacation time.
We helped rebels in Nicaragua, Cuba, and Afghanistan, just to name a few places. How’d that work out? Did we install friendly, stable, free governments in two weeks?
It’s only simple in your mind, Terd. For good reason.
BW
March 17th, 2011
2:11 pm
Good Grief
Good deflection from the question of how we’re going to pay for this let alone divert battle groups from Iraq and Afghanistan….I do believe that Mullen said there’s no good way to prosecute a war on three fronts in regards to invading Iran….but make no mistake ground forces will be required in Libya if it comes to forcing Gadhafi out.
MC
March 17th, 2011
2:12 pm
If that were the case Terd we should have gotten involved in Rwanda and Sierra Leone. Show me when any war has ever been fought for humanitarian reasons Terd? Furthermore is it humane to send more kids to die for a rather murky cause. Do you have kids you’ll rush down to the recruiting station to take part in this “humanitarian” activity?
MiltonMan
March 17th, 2011
2:12 pm
Obozo: I can’t handle what is happening in Japan, Libya, Afghanistan & Iraq (even though I said I would have the troops out by now), unemployment over 8%, gas prices, etc., etc.
Hillary: I quit (in 2012)
Obozo: I am taking a vacation to Brazil.
MC
March 17th, 2011
2:14 pm
Uh Terd….I hate to break this to you but that was the rebels firing from the backs of pickup trucks. Damn Terd!
BW
March 17th, 2011
2:19 pm
Milton Man
Offer a cogent argument to the topic not Democrat bashing….it dumbs down the conversation. If you have a problem with the current President….first Tuesday in November next year buddy
Devil's Advocate
March 17th, 2011
2:28 pm
Since when does an action in the best interest of mankind blindly merritt our resources? Isn’t nationalized healthcare and redistribution of wealth technically in the best interest of mankind? Back to the topic though, if the situation in Libya (and many other countries) is so bad, why wait until there is an uprising to get involved? Why aren’t we moving from county-to-county removing all dictators? Wouldn’t that be in the best interest of mankind?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
March 17th, 2011
2:35 pm
You could have taken the oldest most ragged out F15 Eagle in the US Air Force and sent it over there by itself, with one tank of fuel and no ammo, as soon as it crossed the border the Libyan “air force” would have hauled ass straight to Iragahead, er, I mean Iran.
Unless you’re yellow sissy like obozo.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
March 17th, 2011
2:37 pm
Nero fiddles, just sayin…
BW
March 17th, 2011
2:38 pm
I Report….dude you’re something else
ActiveDutyColonel
March 17th, 2011
2:42 pm
I will be deploying to Afghanistan for the 4th time next week and I would just like to say to Terd that I have written over 100 letters of condolence to the families of my SOF soldiers that have been killed by guys in SUVs, Jeeps, and yes, riding horses. To the Terds of the world all I have to say to you is thank God Almighty that idiots like you don’t dictate US foreign policy.
JF McNamara
March 17th, 2011
2:44 pm
Hey Terd,
Obama is fixing my problems. He fixed my tumbling economy. He helped my 401K come back. He stopped the madness in Iraq. He had to fix all of that because of the complete and utter failure of the Republican President before him. If he wants to go play golf and go to concerts, that’s fine with me. My life is a lot better now than when he took over.
I don’t care about Libya just like you probably didn’t care about Sudan or Rwanda. When did Republicans become the party of save the world? If it turns out bad for them then I don’t care. Its not like Khadafi was ideal.
ActiveDutyColonel
March 17th, 2011
2:47 pm
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin…
You could have taken the oldest most ragged out F15 Eagle in the US Air Force and sent it over there by itself, with one tank of fuel and no ammo, as soon as it crossed the border the Libyan “air force” would have hauled ass straight to Iragahead, er, I mean Iran.
Just like they did in Somalia? Just like they are doing in Afghanistan? Just like the Viet Cong? If it’s so easy maybe you should go do the job Whine.
ActiveDutyColonel
March 17th, 2011
2:48 pm
And take Terd with you.
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
2:48 pm
BW – Sorry that came out as a deflection. I guess that again falls under the double standard where it is okay to criticize conservatives, but thou shalt not criticize liberals. As I’ve said earlier, I don’t think it is our job to police the world. But the UN, you know, that group that the world seems to look to for leadership, is completely inept. The likely UN solution would be to issue a few spineless resolutions, and then wait for Libya to comply. When it becomes apparent that Libya will not comply, the UN might send in a group of inspectors. And maybe by 2027 some nation will step up.
When it comes to us paying for it, we’re in too big a hole as it is. The Weekly Standard has written that if “national defense, interstate highways, national parks, homeland security, and all other discretionary programs somehow became absolutely free, we’d still have a budget deficit.” How true that is would require more research on my part, but I don’t doubt it.
HDB
March 17th, 2011
2:50 pm
ActiveDutyColonel
March 17th, 2011
2:47 pm
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!! (BIG SALUTE!)
MC
March 17th, 2011
2:51 pm
What should he do about Japan Milton Man? Impress us. We’re waiting.
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
2:52 pm
JF – How exactly did Obama fix your tumbling economy? How did he fix your 401(k)? Did he waive a magic wand and make it better?
Again, you would think that the world was a magical fairy dust utopia under Clinton and then Bush walked in and sent the whole planet straight to hell. Everyone wants to blame Bush for the mess Obama has, but no one wants to lay blame on Clinton for the brewing mess that he handed over to Bush. Also, I don’t recall Clinton having to deal with 3000 murdered Americans less than a year into office.
Gm
March 17th, 2011
2:56 pm
MiltonMan: Send backwood idiots like you over to libya and fight, we lost 4500 American troops under Bush, with this cowboy mentality.
Unemployement in several states are under 6%, blame idiots backwood georgians like yourself for voting for these idiots Rep in this state for the last 8 plus years.
I bet those Rep in Ws, who will be in the unemployement line soon are not happy with their choice back in Nov, it will take something like that for the backwoods faithful georgia people to stop voting agianst their interest.
HDB
March 17th, 2011
2:57 pm
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
2:52 pm
The REAL problem is that no one wants to place blame on the 43 men who occupied the Oval Office PRIOR to President Obama for where we are as a nation!! Blame can be spread between BOTH parties…..but the more recent occurrances can be laid at the feet of the GOP!
Aquagirl
March 17th, 2011
3:01 pm
The moment a real soldier shows up, the Terds and Whines soil themselves and run off crying. The little toy soldiers they play with never talk back to them.
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
3:03 pm
Amen, HDB. Every President and the entirety of Congress should shoulder the blame. Sadly, as a nation, we’ve come down to what is essentially a one-hour attention span. If CSI can solve a crime in an hour then the government should be able to fix our problems that quickly. It just doesn’t work that way.
TnGelding
March 17th, 2011
3:03 pm
Let’s wait and see how this plays out. Some times it’s better to procrastinate. It is tragic that so many had to die, but like they like to say here as we sacrifice blood and treasure worldwide, freedom isn’t free.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
March 17th, 2011
3:04 pm
Just like they did in Somalia? Just like they are doing in Afghanistan?
How many Somalians or Afraghistans have you seen in the air?
Those are no fly zones that imposed themselves in the seventh century, just sayin…
No US effort necessary.
@@
March 17th, 2011
3:05 pm
MC:
The point is to not become involved until we know who and what we are dealing with when this all washes out.
With whom do you think Hillary’s been meeting.
You don’t trust Hillary? To be honest with you, I trust her experience more than I trust Obama’s inexperience.
Ragnar:
‘Ya made me blush, buddy. I was gonna hit ‘ya back with one that’d make you blush but thought better of it. It’s tempting though.
Think Australia and fire.
(IW&SH)
BW
March 17th, 2011
3:10 pm
Good Grief
Leaving the blame behind and strictly speaking on the topic….the larger problem is the American public and especially the American press Kyle Wingfield included seem to think that American exceptionalism means that when we speak the world should tremble beneath our words and adhere to them just because we say so. I suppose when you look at our recent history say the last 50 to 75 years then sure that’s a justifiable opinion….I mean Ronald Reagan brought down the Soviet Union by sheer will no internal issues whatsoever. I have a problem with bumper sticker slogans and the dumbing down of the complexity of military actions. The UN is toothless for a good reason….it was designed that way…not alot of difference between them and the League of Nations except America is playing a part and India and China were not the force that they are today. There are too many agendas at play for the UN to truly be effective but those agendas center around energy and trade. As long as those economic issues are present count out the rest of the world. Which brings me to another point….why are we outraged at Gadhafi now? He’s been at this since the 1980’s when he and his government actively sponspored terrorism….did they really change or did we just want to re-open a market with Libya? Finally if these people on this blog denounce inaction are willing to pay for and equip our military properly and assign them a clear mission then that is their wish but perhaps they should think about this when they see the residents of another nation burning our flag in the streets and wonder why we never quite get greeted as liberators.
MC
March 17th, 2011
3:10 pm
Maybe another Chalibi? That worked out really well @@.
MC
March 17th, 2011
3:12 pm
You get it BW.
Aquagirl
March 17th, 2011
3:14 pm
Whine, since we’ve established clear air superiority, I’m sure the mopping up on the ground will be a cinch. When are you leaving for Somalia?
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
3:19 pm
BW – Well put. It was said from the beginning that if we were to push for Democratic elections in places that never really had them, then we had to be prepared for results we didn’t like.
I don’t personally know anyone who is “outraged” at Qaddafi (Khadfhy, Gadhafi, etc.). His dealings within his nation were not at the forefront of global attention until the Jasmin Revolution swept into his country. He has certainly done himself no favors with lines about fighting to the last man, the last woman, and the last bullet. Or saying there would be rivers of blood.
Road Scholar
March 17th, 2011
3:22 pm
Thank you BW. I had to step away and Good Grief is still living in the past. My comment was made for today and the future. Yes. We all have blamed many for issues in the past. If we are to succeed as a nation, we had better define and agree on what we’d like to be and move in that direction. Staying here…and in the past gets us nowhere and compounds our problems!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
March 17th, 2011
3:29 pm
AG- As soon as obozo declares war on them, hahahahahahahahaha, know what I’m sayin?
Harry Callahan
March 17th, 2011
3:29 pm
“Sir Ronald Reagen didn’t need to impress a bunch of neo-con chicken-hawk never served perpetual deferred arm-chaired punks.”
Don’t know if you heard, but Senator John Kerry (D), who boasts longly and loudly about his service in Vietnam, is one of those urging action in Libya.
As Kyle stated, it was galactically stupid of Obama to say that Khaddafi must step down when he planned to take no action whatsoever.
I can’t decide which is more clownish, this administration’s domestic policy, or it’s foreign policy.
seabeau
March 17th, 2011
3:31 pm
Where is GW when we need him? If America had LED then the Rest of the World would have Followed. Obama is a moral coward like most liberals.
@@
March 17th, 2011
3:33 pm
MC:
Iraq, absent Sadr would probably doing much better. Even with, things aren’t looking too bad for democracy.
This is the rebel’s pledge:
http://ntclibya.org/english/about/
These are the people who’ve sworn their allegiance to the newly formed council:
http://ntclibya.org/english/allegiances/
Council Members:
Council members
The Council is composed of thirty one (31) members representing the various regions and cities of Libya. A number of these members have been named while the names of those representing Ajdabiya, Al Kufrah, Ghat, Nalut, Misratah, Az Zintan and Az Zawiya will not be declared for safety reasons. The Council is eagerly awaiting for the naming of representatives from Central and Southern Libya and Tripoli.
1. Counselor: Mustafa Mohammed Abdul Jalil as chairman of The Council.
2. Mr. Othman Suleiman El-Megyrahi (Batnan Area)
3. Mr. Ashour Hamed Bourashed (Darna City)
4. Dr. Abdelallah Moussa El-myehoub (Qouba Area)
5. Mr. Zubiar Ahmed El-Sharif (Representative of the political prisoners)
6. Mr. Ahmed Abduraba Al-Abaar (Benghazi City)
7. Mr.Dr. Fathi Mohamed Baja (Benghazi City)
8. Mr. Abdelhafed Abdelkader Ghoga (Benghazi City)
9. Mr Fathi Tirbil and Dr. Salwa Fawzi El-Deghali (Representative of youth and women)
This is the guy, Hillary’s been talking to:
Mr Mahmood Jibril:
Born in Libya n 1952, obtained a BSc in Economics and Political Science from Cairo University in 1975. Holds a masters’ degree in Political Science from the University of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in 1980. He also obtained a Doctorate in Strategic planning and decision-making from the same university in 1984 where he worked as a professor in the same subject field for several years. So far he has published 10 books in Strategic planning and decision making. He led the team who drafted and formed the Unified Arab Training manual. He was also responsible for organising [SIC] and administering the first two Training conferences in the Arab world in the years 1987 and 1988. He later took over the management and administration of many of the leaders’ training programs for senior management in Arab countries including Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Libya, UAE, Kuwait, Jordan, Bahrain, Morocco, Tunisia, Turkey and Britain.
I’m sure our government knows more about him than ^^^ that. Perhaps they learned from their mistakes with Chalabi.
MC, there’s no life without risks. Frozen is no way to exist.
BW
March 17th, 2011
3:36 pm
Harry
This is why we hold elections every four years
Seabeau
Just remember that Obama is more than likely in office because Dubya
@@
March 17th, 2011
3:37 pm
MC:
For some reason my response is being held in moderation. Don’t know why.
It offered up “The Pledge” of the rebel forces. Showed videos from districts within Libya who have sworn allegiance to the movement.
Gave a list of the council members.
This is one of two leaders with whom Hillary’s been meeting:
Mr Mahmood Jibril:
Born in Libya n 1952, obtained a BSc in Economics and Political Science from Cairo University in 1975. Holds a masters’ degree in Political Science from the University of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in 1980. He also obtained a Doctorate in Strategic planning and decision-making from the same university in 1984 where he worked as a professor in the same subject field for several years. So far he has published 10 books in Strategic planning and decision making. He led the team who drafted and formed the Unified Arab Training manual. He was also responsible for organising [SIC] and administering the first two Training conferences in the Arab world in the years 1987 and 1988. He later took over the management and administration of many of the leaders’ training programs for senior management in Arab countries including Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Libya, UAE, Kuwait, Jordan, Bahrain, Morocco, Tunisia, Turkey and Britain.
I’m sure our government knows more about him than ^^^ that. Perhaps they learned from their mistakes with Chalabi.
MC, there’s no life without risks. Frozen is no way to exist.
@@
March 17th, 2011
3:38 pm
Oops! I see my original response has been set free.
R is for Recession
March 17th, 2011
3:40 pm
Terd Fergesun
March 17th, 2011
2:07 pm
You intervene because it is the right thing to do for mankind.
Coming from a conservative, this makes me chuckle. So which side of “right thing to do for mankind” does healthcare fall into? what about unemployment? pollution and climate change control? Or in the mond of a conservative, does the “right thing for mankind” usually only involve missles and combat?
Tommy
March 17th, 2011
3:46 pm
R
You forgot Arabs. The neocon’s “Right thing for mankind” involves missles, combat, and Arabs.
@@
March 17th, 2011
3:46 pm
Obama’s in office because of his “gifted oratory”…something that McCain was sorely lacking, my friends…
my friends…
my friends
Aquagirl
March 17th, 2011
3:48 pm
I’m so glad we have a black president. He doesn’t feel he has to compensate for a small wang by bombing other countries.
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
3:49 pm
R is for – Yes, health care is the “right thing to do” for mankind, it’s just that there are a lot of people who feel that the law, and if not the law then the manner in which it was passed, was not for the greater good.
Road Scholar – I’m sorry you feel that I’m living in the past. I’m merely looking at the last few administrations in trying to diagnose the problem. Unlike some liberals who refuse to look any farther than the last administration.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
March 17th, 2011
3:50 pm
Dear @@ @ 3:05, apologies, frankly I almost decided to not push the “send” button @ 1:42, but King Kaiser’s signature line from My Favorite Year impelled the transmission.
Good Grief
March 17th, 2011
3:52 pm
@@ at 3:46 -
Which is wonderful if you were electing a public speaker. I’ll admit that I voted for Bush in 2000, and I voted for him because he wasn’t as good of a “speaker” as Gore. I felt that he would rely more on his Cabinet. I was wrong, but I learned from it. Still, I don’t vote for someone (and I would hope that most people are like me) just because that person is a “gifted” orator. Also, I’ve seen Obama sans teleprompter, and it’s not pretty.
John
March 17th, 2011
3:53 pm
How can Mr. Wingfield consider this as his “commentary” when it’s just quoting in large batches someone else’s work?
Anna
March 17th, 2011
3:54 pm
Why are people who call themselves Americans and patriots attacking your president instead of showing unity? Republicans, Democrats, etc. Seem to forget the economy, healthcare, education were all bad before President Obama assumed this mess and is not his doing but prior administrations. Maybe when you get a president that shows his people disdain and disrespect you’ll appreciate Obama Healthcare to make sure you have what you need all the time. Contrary to your beliefs, if you don’t pay higher taxes for his plan your taxes will increase regardless to pay for the uninsured, illegal immigrants, etc. Why not have a plan that makes everyone pay into it?
Also, all you who thought you could get something for nothing and bought homes you couldn’t afford, stop running to the government for a hand out. Why should my tax money bail you out? You don’t deserve it. To the anti-government protesters, I agree that Medicare, Medicaid, social security, welfare, etc. Need to be either abolished or severely limited. People use these programs as fail safe measures because they know it’s there and I can get it if I qualify.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
March 17th, 2011
3:55 pm
Dear John @ 3:53, good afternoon, do you know anyone who has ever had a really original idea? I don’t.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
March 17th, 2011
3:56 pm
Dear Anna @ 3:54, we are not attacking Chauncey, we are merely voting “present.”
Screwy Louie
March 17th, 2011
3:59 pm
Well, Obama the Magnificent has a real problem here folks. After admonishing the nation on civility after the Tucson shooting, he just recently said “we are tightening the noose on Colonel Khaddafi” (paraphased from recollection). Interesting choice of words but clearly not from the kumbaya manual for world “leaders”. Tightening the noose. Sort of like Bush’s “Mission Accomplished”.
I also recall him saying something during his election or not long afterwards declaring that the U.S. wasn’t the world’s cop and we should essentially stand down from our imperialistic posture. We had gotten too big for our britches and needed to refrain fro exerting our will on other sovereign nations.
Here is the problem: He is a narciscist and can’t stand not getting his way. His only face-saving out in Libya is to have the kooky Colonel bumped off. Not shocking for a dude from Chicago, but how can he or his supporters square assasination with his/their rhetoric? Sadly, the electorate chose an incompetent boob and he is dangerous because of his personal shortcomings.
We are witnessing a leadership void like never before in my lifetime and we will all suffer this fool.
Lightbulb
March 17th, 2011
4:02 pm
@3:55
Here is an original idea to make some money.
Offer to rich folks——”Primitive Man Experience”.
Dress them in a firesuit or kevlar suit and then lower them into cages with either bears or tigers.
Or better yet, take them to the Serengeti in Africa to get the full experience of being stalked and ran down.
It will go.
Screwy Louie
March 17th, 2011
4:03 pm
@Aquagirl 3:48- You are a goober. Dear Leader is not black, number one, and you have been looking at too much porn, number two, and regardless the size-he has no balls, number three.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
March 17th, 2011
4:06 pm
But now Obama is chief executive, and learning, as did Prince Hamlet, that thinking out every possible side of a question can mean never acting on any of them — a sort of Shakespearean “prison” where “there is nothing either good or bad.” Worrying about pleasing everyone ensures pleasing no one. Once again such “conscience does make cowards of us all.”
Hamlets, past and present, are as admirable in theory as they are fickle — and often dangerous — in fact.
To be a sissy or to not be a sissy, that is the question.
And obozo ain’t the answer, just sayin..
Tommy
March 17th, 2011
4:08 pm
Screwy Louie
March 17th, 2011
3:59 pm
I think your name says it all.
JF McNamara
March 17th, 2011
4:12 pm
Good Grief,
“JF – How exactly did Obama fix your tumbling economy? How did he fix your 401(k)? Did he waive a magic wand and make it better?”
The stimulus, the bailouts of the autos and banks. Restoring confidence in the markets. That was his magic wand. The whole while, what were Republicans yelling. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. Now that its turned out relatively well everyone forgets that. I’d like to see what it would’ve been like if we’d done nothing…
What brewing mess did Clinton leave Bush? He left him in such good financial position that he had a surplus to give tax cuts. Clinton didn’t create the Katrina response. Clinton didn’t leave Bush Iraq or 911. Bush pushed Iraq as an extension of Afghanistan. The entire Banking and housing crises came to a head under Bush.
I remember seeing things about the financial crises on CNBC as early as 2006. There were plenty of warning signs and he did nothing. He didn’t raise rates to stop growth, in fact, he pushed Greenspan to keep them artifically low.
I’m not saying Bush was the beginning of our issues, but his 8 years of complete ineptitude sure didn’t help.
@@
March 17th, 2011
4:18 pm
Ragnar:
Not a problem. It’s good to know I can still blush, although my brother would chastise me for having done so.
I’m relieved to know, I’m, at least, wearing a loin cloth in your mind’s eye. See if you can muster up a breastplate for me, would ‘ya?
(ISH)
@@
March 17th, 2011
4:19 pm
One too many “I’ms” but who cares? Not me. I just
HB
@@
March 17th, 2011
4:25 pm
Paralysis by analysis is an apt tag for Obama. It’s almost as though he hopes the problems will go away on their own. There’s only so much time he can spend twiddling his thumbs before inaction becomes obvious.
I have to ask….has he been in this coma all his life?
Aaarrggghhhhhh
@@
March 17th, 2011
4:27 pm
Perhaps he was conceived in a coma, born in a coma, or
dropped on his head as a child.
Gm
March 17th, 2011
4:28 pm
Hey maybe if Obama attack libya, we could have another 4500 America troops die, under George W, and maybe our policies will get another 5,000 Americans dead in New York.
If we bring back the draft, then idiot Rep would not be so quick to call this President a coward for not putting our noise in every one business.
Thank you President Obama for being cool, classy, level headed and not trying to get more Americans kill, thanks for not listening to fat slob high school drop out Rush Limbaugh who was to much of a drug and alcholic to join in military service, thanks for not listening to 3 times college drop out Sean Hannity who was to stupid to past the military exam.
Harry Callahan
March 17th, 2011
4:30 pm
“Aquagirl
March 17th, 2011
3:48 pm
I’m so glad we have a black president. He doesn’t feel he has to compensate for a small wang by bombing other countries.”
No, he compensates for his small wang by reading long boring speeches from a teleprompter and surrounding himself with mindless liberal sycophants who tell him how awesome he is.
Harry Callahan
March 17th, 2011
4:32 pm
Gm, I think you’ve mistaken Michael Moore for Rush Limbaugh. As far as Sean Hannity, the “3 times colleg dropout” earns more in a week than you do in a year.
@@
March 17th, 2011
4:36 pm
Food prices make the biggest jump in 36 years.
No kidding!!!!!!
Pay more, get less.
Peter
March 17th, 2011
4:36 pm
Kyle is America up for a 3rd WAR…..and how will we pay for it ?
Republican’s haven’t won the last wars they started did they, or figure out how to pay for eitehr of them did they ?
BUT They did manage to keep the cost of WAR out of the spiraling deficit they amassed.
But Hey Cheney said it best…’Deficits don’t matter.” Of course they don’t, or do they Kyle ?
@@
March 17th, 2011
4:37 pm
Gm:
We’re just looking to kill their airplanes.
@@
March 17th, 2011
4:40 pm
Obama’s boobs overshadow his wang.
Sorry, but the guy’s a bit flabby up top.
His inaction would indicate he’s a bit flabby downstairs too.
All over flabby.
Tommy
March 17th, 2011
5:26 pm
@@
March 17th, 2011
4:40 pm
Thanks for contributing to the mature, constructive dialog that is helping to fix the issues this country is facing.
Gm
March 17th, 2011
5:34 pm
Harry Callahan: Mike Moorer does not have millions of small minded middle class whites to expolit, fat druge user Limbaugh has never rallied or been out behind that mic, at least Mike Moorer gets out for causes, oh, but wait Limbaugh does not have to he have idiiots like you to do it for him.
Hannity will always stay rich, because he sells you idiots that America dream crap, while the other half are living in trailers barely can eat.
Road Scholar
March 17th, 2011
5:39 pm
Good Grief: An earlier post sounded like sour grapes for the past. Let’s learn from the past but move forward into the future!
@@
March 17th, 2011
5:41 pm
Tommy:
You’re welcome. I’d encourage Obama to tone it up but there’s only so much I can do.
(ISH)
@@
March 17th, 2011
5:42 pm
Oops!
That (ISH) should’ve been a schnirt.
Joe
March 17th, 2011
5:54 pm
This is a not a well thought out argument. It’s likely not a coincidence that people in the middle east are fighting for democracy while Obama’s president. Surely the dictators over there have a hard time arguing that America is at fault for everything, when their population sympathizes with the American president.
wallbanger
March 17th, 2011
5:57 pm
Why should he be saying anything about Libya? We can’t afford to get involved. We are only one of the big economic powers–where is the call for China or Japan to do something about keeping world peace? I say, shut up and hunker down. We need to save our own country first.
Peter
March 17th, 2011
6:11 pm
Hey Wallbanger…….Republican’s want to rush to war so they forget about the deficit they created……..and the disaster we now call the American Economy.
The two wars that Bush started and didn’t ever WIN, or have a clue how to fund.
They want to call Obama weak cause American solders are not dying………as in the case of George Bush, who “Prayed to his God, before invading Iraq”.
Then again deficits don’t matter…….that’s what Cheney said.
Republican’s who believe Cheney think deficits don’t matter……kind of like Bin Laden and Saddam were working together……another famous Cheney lie !
BW
March 17th, 2011
6:48 pm
Hey Kyle….do you care to revise your statement about the failure of “internationalism”?
I will admit that I am wrong about the UN…I wish they your kind meaning “conservatives” would just run on your principles and not hyperventilate over everything this administration is doing regardless of whether or not the “liberals” did it to Dubya,
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/17/u-n-imposes-no-fly-zone-over-libya/?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
Screwy Louie
March 17th, 2011
9:20 pm
Tommy eats boogers. There, was that mature enough for you little man? Next time you go to vote I will key your car. You are the guy that wears women’s panties, right? It was a joke you dweeblib.
Georgia Voter
March 17th, 2011
11:11 pm
It seems that KW should have updated his post to report the following:
“The United Nations Security Council voted Thursday to authorize military action, including airstrikes against Libyan tanks and heavy artillery and a no-fly zone…officials in Britain, France and the United States were all adamant that Arab League forces take part in the military actions and help pay for the operations, and that it not be led by NATO, to avoid the appearance that the West was attacking another Muslim country.”
I understand that “nuance” and “diplomacy” and “strategic planning” are dirty words among the right-wing anti-Obama machine, but there it is.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/world/africa/18nations.html?_r=1&hp
guy
March 18th, 2011
6:49 am
I really do not see how this man can stand up as he is spineless and clueless about everything.He does take time to pick the NCAA basketball final four.That shows his true mentality.Those who voted him in are no smarter than he is either.Ignorance is truly bliss and this is what ignorance looks like! obama is the joker and the joke’s unfortunately on the rest of us.Thanks a lot!!!
Moderate Line
March 18th, 2011
7:23 am
There is a big difference between Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan.
1. Afghanistan harbored terrorist which attacked the United States.
2. Libya is an open revolt.
Neither of these two applied to Iraq.
It’s great to make the argument that internationalism has failed but the opposite failed in Iraq. We never had a reason to go into Iraq. The international community was right and we were wrong.
Eric
March 18th, 2011
8:38 am
What a shame that we don’t have a genius, someone who has all the answers to all the questions, in the Whitehouse named Kyle Wingfield. Ugh!
Port O'John
March 18th, 2011
9:25 am
Umm, Kyle, your gleeful celebration of Obama’s failure is a bit premature. The UN Security Council approved a no-fly zone yesterday.
I know your a partisan hack Kyly, but you could at least get your facts half-way right some of the time. Otherwise people will think your just a Fox News Wannabe.
I kind of feel sorry for you. Must be hard to keep that much hate and vitriol going every day.
Moderate Line
March 18th, 2011
9:39 am
Port O’John
March 18th, 2011
9:25 am
Umm, Kyle, your gleeful celebration of Obama’s failure is a bit premature. The UN Security Council approved a no-fly zone yesterday.
I know your a partisan hack Kyly, but you could at least get your facts half-way right some of the time. Otherwise people will think your just a Fox News Wannabe.
I kind of feel sorry for you. Must be hard to keep that much hate and vitriol going every day.
+++++++++++++++
Libya declared an immediate cease-fire and promised to stop military operations Friday in a bid to fend off international military intervention after the U.N. authorized a no-fly zone and “all necessary measures” to prevent the regime from striking its own people.
I am tired of seeing the left rooting for Bush ti fail and the right rooting for Obama to fail. It makes both sides seem so petty.
retiredds
March 18th, 2011
9:59 am
Kyle, you need to stick with the regular Republican issues, abortion, same sex stuff, tea party foolishness, gun rights, medical care for the wealthy, tax cuts for the top 1% while everyone else is dumped upon. trashing the environment, the glorification of big oil and big coal, etc. Your view on foreign affairs is amateurish at best.
Georgia Voter
March 18th, 2011
10:46 am
“The United States has played a complicated role in the debate over military involvement, initially expressing great reluctance about being drawn into another armed conflict in a Muslim country but subsequently unnerved by the reports of Colonel Qaddafi’s gains.
But diplomats said the moral imperative of protecting civilians from Colonel Qaddafi and the political imperative of United States not watching from the sidelines while a notorious dictator violently crushed a democratic rebellion had helped wipe away lingering doubts.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/africa/19libya.html?hp=&pagewanted=all