The things we’d forgo to build a new Falcons stadium
Much of the public debate about a potential new stadium for the Atlanta Falcons has focused on the wrong question.
The issue is not whether the Falcons, their fans and — above all — owner Arthur Blank would benefit from having a new stadium built with an expected $400 million in tax money. The issue is whether building a replacement for, or complement to, the Georgia Dome is the best use of those millions.
As an economist would say, is it worth the “opportunity cost”? That would be the next-best choice among all possible things the money could buy.
And we could buy a lot of things for $400 million — the state’s expected portion of the $700 million project. Put another way, we’re talking roughly $19 million a year. Based on recent years, that’s the portion of annual hotel/motel tax revenues in Atlanta that would be dedicated to the new stadium.
Hotel tax revenue is sometimes considered “free money” because it comes from visitors. That’s why it’s better to think in terms of what we give up by using it a certain way.
Loading ...For example, it could go to cutting property taxes. Atlanta takes in $18 million to $20 million in general funds (see page 4o of this PDF) for each mill of property taxes. (A mill equals a dollar of tax for every $1,000 of a home’s assessed value.)
If the city were to lower property taxes by one mill and replace the revenue with hotel taxes, the owner of a $250,000 home would save $250 a year. (Hey, that’s about what it costs to take a family of four to a Falcons game!)
On the other hand, we could continue to spend the money, just not on a new stadium. The list of potential projects is long. Here are some possibilities, not all of which I’m endorsing simply by including them here.
For $400 million, we could build the entire 44-mile network of high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes planned to help ease congestion in the region. Or we could make a number of improvements to freeway interchanges choked by traffic.
For those more interested in public transportation, the city could complete about a third of the BeltLine’s 22-mile transit loop. Alternatively, it could more than cover the first phase of the proposed streetcar route along the Peachtree corridor (a project I’d personally put at the bottom of the list).
Or the city could do the opposite of what governments tend to do and reduce the burden on future taxpayers.
With $400 million, the city could erase more than a quarter of its $1.5 billion pension funds deficit. Or it could pay for a big chunk of its continuing, $4 billion water and sewer infrastructure repairs. Those costs are inescapable. Why pass them on to unborn Atlantans when visitors could help us pay them down now?
Just to get a full grasp of what $400 million will buy, let’s look outside the city limits. For that money, we could pay the rest of the cost of deepening the Savannah port, which would benefit the entire state. It would also fund a large part of an outer perimeter or new north-south expressway allowing cargo trucks to bypass Atlanta.
Or we could hedge our bets in the water wars by building new reservoirs to fulfill our water needs in the event we lose access to Lake Lanier.
These alternative uses of the hotel tax revenues would require new state legislation. But surely Republican legislative leaders, good small-government conservatives that they claim to be, would rather use this money to lower other taxes or to build more pressing infrastructure than a spare football stadium. Right?
And even if you believe money raised from out-of-towners should be used to attract more visitors, the Georgia World Congress Center and Atlanta Convention and Visitors Bureau would still get almost a third of Atlanta’s hotel tax revenues.
Given the other possibilities, I’m not sure why we’re seriously debating a new stadium.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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113 comments Add your comment
Moderate Line
March 9th, 2011
6:59 pm
Given the other possibilities, I’m not sure why we’re seriously debating a new stadium.
++++
A good book to read is Soccenomics is an interesting read on this subject. It looks at the economic impact of sport teams. The only thing this will do is make Arthur Blank richer because the Falcons will increase in value with a new stadium.
saywhat?
March 9th, 2011
6:59 pm
I whole-heartedly agree.
Except for the tax cuts. Tax cuts should not be widely distributed to all city home owners, but only to owners of homes worth over $750,000. After all, why punish success, and haven’t the rich suffered enough?
Be Afraid
March 9th, 2011
6:59 pm
We don’t need no stinkin’ stadium (at least not a new one).
I’m pretty sure that buildings in other parts of the world last for centuries. So I’m not sure why we would put up with design and construction that’s only good for a few decades, if that. Could it have to do with the construction industry having so much leverage over our local politicians?
F. Sinkwich
March 9th, 2011
7:16 pm
Kyle, I just recently learned that there is a much more worthwhile expenditure of taxpayer dollars than some stoooopid stadium.
American Hero, Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader, liberal icon, told me that my tax dollars are funding the Cowboy Poetry Festival in Nevada every January. Here I thought so much of my taxes were wasted.
I am heartened that my money goes to such a worthwhile endeavor.
I thought that running a $1.5 TRILLION deficit was unconscionable, but if we’re paying for such art, I’m OK with it.
Why, I ask myself while banging my head against the wall, did I ever question the wisdom of our elected officials to spend my money only on those items absolutely necessary to secure life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for the American people.
I stand chastised.
Here was my favorite Poem from that event:
I was a cowboy from Nantucket.
………
Never mind.
JDW
March 9th, 2011
7:32 pm
Kyle, ever hear the phrase penny wise pound foolish…
Georgians Need to Strike
March 9th, 2011
7:43 pm
Like the NFL Players. The owners need to pay for the stadium, not every Georgian. Hell most don’t even like football. They can stay in the Dome rather than have the people cough up the money. The Dome will be paid off shortly, if not already. Kind of like the Georgia 400 toll.
get out much?
March 9th, 2011
8:02 pm
Kyle’s is missing the real issue. We need a new stadium to keep up with the (Jerry) Joneses.
Rafe Hollister
March 9th, 2011
8:04 pm
All of the bedwetting liberals who like to comment here are always so agonized over corporate welfare, so on this issue I agree with them. No, to welfare for Arthur Blank and his minority owners.
If the Georgia Dome is costing him money, let him build his own Taj Mahal stadium. Reducing the number of seats in order to justify raising ticket prices is just beneath contempt. Playing the game in the elements just to force the wealthy to seek climate controlled suites, just as onerous. How can anyone support this egotistical jerk?
My Name Changes
March 9th, 2011
8:22 pm
Kyle,
You don’t get it.
The GA dome is a POS.
I’ve posted under different names in the past.
The Dome Sux !!
Blow it up for a movie or something.
Retractable roof, real grass, lots of seats for regular folks.
Anything else is another ATL failure.
Please get this one right Atlanta.
Anderson
March 9th, 2011
8:26 pm
If any stadium were a good idea, the team would pay the cost itself. The city would still benefit from hotel and restaurant revenue. Arguments for taxpayer funded stadiums are a deception, put forth by greedy owners who want to leverage someone else’s money for a profit.
JoeMan
March 9th, 2011
8:32 pm
Hey, I’d LOVE to see a new outdoor stadium for the Falcons – as long as Arthur Blank foots the bill. ANY expenditure of taxpayer dollars on this project would not only be fiscally irresponsible, but socially immoral, as well. Atlanta is broke, and the state’s not far behind. Let’s get our priorities straight for once and make sure we invest in projects that will contribute to the region’s economic growth.
Freehuman
March 9th, 2011
8:42 pm
Remove the dome off the Georgia Dome. Voila, open air stadium!
Glenn
March 9th, 2011
8:46 pm
I would buy tickets if we had an open air stadium . Yes the dome is awful . It was made to get the Olympics . Rankin Smith never wanted a dome . The city of Atlanta & the Olympic committee forced it on him & the Falcon fans . I think a better question would be was the Olympics worth it ? As a huge NFL fan & lover of the Falcons my answer is of course not . Indoor football in Atlanta is stupid . Blank would still get an outdoor stadium . It would just be in the suburbs . If the city of Atlanta would be fine with that then fine .
bo
March 9th, 2011
9:09 pm
i don’t think 400m would make a dent in a new freeway such as an outer perimeter.
DawgVoiceofReason
March 9th, 2011
9:19 pm
I’m also a big Falcons fan and would love to be able to go to a beautiful new outdoor (or retractable roof) stadium and see the Falcons on the road to the Super Bowl. But, should one penny of tax money be used to pay for it? “H” “E” “double toothpick” NO!!! If Mr. Blank and the Falcons want it and think it will benefit them, they should pay for it directly. The fans who support the Falcons by attending the games would then pay for it indirectly, as it should be. Folks, the economic crisis we are in “ain’t no game” and deserves to be taken as seriously as you would the future of your own family.
BigDawg
March 9th, 2011
9:19 pm
What taxpayer funds have contributed to UGA’s stadium? NONE! Let the free market work. If A. Blank wants a new stadium, let him build it! Too many taxpayer funds going to bailouts of big companies and special interests.
jm
March 9th, 2011
9:25 pm
Amen. But that new stadium will be oh so cool. Unfortunately. The gov’t should only throw in $100mm. Plus, those old bonds should be paid off first.
Road Scholar
March 9th, 2011
9:26 pm
Kyle, interesting proposal. In other words, if I understand your logic, we should look at what could be in our future, what we want to be as a City, and region. Defining what should make up Atlanta, or our prirorities should be thought out and an action plan developed. Sort of Strategic planning?
So why shouldn’t that work in defining what America should be to its citizens and the world. The issues that need solutions require our focus not neccessarily the bottom line at this time. Once we focus on our needs and desires (two different things) we can then prioritize our future endeavors. At that point you’d cost out the options/priorities and select those that we really want and that we feel is cost effective. Of course some of our needs won’t be cost effective by some, but at least we would have a clear idea of our priorites!
DonH
March 9th, 2011
9:28 pm
Kyle…great article you wrote. Do you happen to know how many other non-Falcon game events (like tractor pulls, motocross, rodeo, college games, high school finals etc) the Dome hosted in 2010 and what % of total revenue they represent the Falcons games. I ask cuz it does seem a bit foolish to build a new Falcons stadium for about 10 days of the year (10 home games) plus a few other football events?!! I assume the new stadium would be solely used for Falcons games and a few college bowls, high school etc) AND the Dome would host the non-football stuff?
Other than an open stadium would be “nice” I certainly never would classify the DOME as a POS as one here did. I think it’s a pretty nice facility that I think was upgraded not too many years ago under Mr. Blank.
William C Smith
March 9th, 2011
9:34 pm
This can be explained with a stupid question. Why should the taxpayers pay to build a stadium that we can’t afford to go to? Authur Blank and the NFL owners have spent too much time on Wall Street.
owl
March 9th, 2011
9:37 pm
If Mr. Blank wants 400 million of our money to build it we should all get free admissoin for ten years.
Brett Favre was once a Falcon
March 9th, 2011
9:43 pm
Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium was built for $18 million.
It was a fine outdoor stadium. Let’s go retro.
Bone
March 9th, 2011
9:51 pm
Once Arthur sees that the ATL will not build a new stadium in downtown, he’ll take his team and move out to Flowery Branch. Once this is announced, ATL will come running with the money to build the new stadium. Open-air…Dome…Retractable…it will be built. Advertised as creating jobs, both during and after the build.
Wait and see…….
Legend of Len Barker
March 9th, 2011
9:54 pm
I’m only for building a stadium if parking comes with it. Sufficient parking.
ND
March 9th, 2011
9:58 pm
I am not a fan of building new stadiums with taxpayer dollars, generally speaking. Just wondering, though: wouldn’t the opportunity cost of not funding a new stadium include the Falcons leaving the city and taking with them whatever positive economic impact they have? Yes, I have read studies that say the economic impact of sports teams is overrated, but how true is that and to what extent?
Brett Favre was once a Falcon
March 9th, 2011
9:59 pm
Hey Legend, Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium had lots of parking. In fact, there were thousands of spaces where Turner Field is now. And they served all-meat hot dogs.
Billy
March 9th, 2011
10:02 pm
I am typically opposed to taxpayers paying for new stadiums for teams. I *am*, however, ok with it **if and only if** the taxpayers retain control of the stadium.
If it’s funded by taxes, then the city (or state, or whatever) retains all rights to it. If Coke, for example, wants to pay a couple million dollars to have the new stadium be called “Coke Field”, that’s fine. But they can give that money to the city.
I can accept that the Dome may be sub-standard compared to other pro teams’ stadiums. But it’s not falling apart, either, as far as I know. If someone can design and build a more-or-less top-of-the-line stadium at a reasonable price and guarantee that it’ll last for more than 20 years, I could maybe get behind it. But I’m nervous about the prospect since I’m 32 and can remember the opening of the Georgia Dome like it was yesterday. If you’re gonna build a new one, make it an icon. A destination. A lasting figure in the Atlanta skyline. And don’t ask for another one again.
GSUBLH
March 9th, 2011
10:04 pm
PERFECT ARTICLE !!!! The citizens of Georgia need more of this. No need for another stadium. In A. Blank’s perferred world he would have a stadium OTP perferably up 400 somewhere to get both the 75 and 85 population and their dollars
Andre
March 9th, 2011
10:05 pm
@ Bone, State of Georgia will not allow that to happen. They’ve already voted to keep the team within the city limits if the state will input money to the stadium. No suburban city has the money to put to build a stadium all by themselves.
Legend of Len Barker
March 9th, 2011
10:08 pm
Yeah, but what type of meat, Brett? I didn’t see a slaughterhouse behind that counter.
There is great parking there, though. As the Braves were such a regional team with a widespread fanbase, you’d believe the Falcons would try to do the same and actually make it easy for fans to drive in.
Wait. Just remembered. Rankin Smith owned the Falcons when the stadium was built. Never mind.
Captain Chaos
March 9th, 2011
10:11 pm
It looks like wasting more taxpayer money on a new stadium is more than even the corporate boot-licking conservatards can stomach.
Brett Favre was once a Falcon
March 9th, 2011
10:15 pm
Legend, you could order a hot dog and the attendant behind the counter would ask if you wanted regular or all-meat. I really don’t want to know what was in either one.
On a better note, I ate my first Chik-Fil-A sandwich in the old stadium.
And you are right about the parking. Even churches know that people won’t come without adequate parking.
Carl
March 9th, 2011
10:16 pm
Please don’t waste a billion $$$$$ on a rich man’s trinket, Atlanta is such a fair weather sports town, (I’m not wishing this) but bad injury could make the Falcons a marginal team again. The last Super Bowl we had came with an ice storm, just think what the press would be like with a gaping hole in the roof!!!
falcons fan
March 9th, 2011
10:17 pm
…let Arthur pay for it…and build it near the Gwinnett Civic Center. Get the HELL out of Atlanta!
Another Voice
March 9th, 2011
10:33 pm
No tax dollars – whether motel/hotel tax or state-support – for this momument to Arthur Blank’s ego. Don’t need it, too many other things need doing. And even if the Falcons leave, there are plenty of events that find the GA Dome to be a fine venue. 10 days’ revenue lost vs. millions spent on yet another facility? I don’t think so!
native
March 9th, 2011
10:39 pm
No subsidies. Let the martket decide.
Le Bourgeois
March 9th, 2011
10:40 pm
The water and sewer infrastructure is 100+ years old. Nothing like dumping raw waste into our streams…yummy. That should be a top priority. Not sexy enough I suppose.
Le Bourgeois
March 9th, 2011
10:46 pm
I’m with you “Brett Favre”, Let’s go retro and be the anti-Jones stadium builder. Build a much smaller outdoor stadium that allows for everyone to have a great seat. Screw the high-tech theater feel and fan zone crap that takes up valuable space. Just build a field and we shall come.
RL
March 9th, 2011
10:48 pm
Who cares about the Falcons? I do not want to pay additional taxes. Let them move to Birmingham or Augusta. Mr Blank and the players are the ones making the money. Let them pay or let the fans who want them to be here pay.
Word
March 9th, 2011
10:49 pm
I would much rather our tax dollars go to the Atlanta Falcons than to lazy, shiftless, rude, uneducated, jive-talking Obama Lovers.
janet
March 9th, 2011
10:56 pm
Studies have proven that sports stadiums/ complexes generate very little income for businesses around them. This is the usual hype about jobs/ business opportunities etc. It’s simply not true.
Want a new stadium? Let Mr. Blank have a bake sale(s) but not one dime of taxpayer money either loca or state should pay for it.
Tommy Maddox
March 9th, 2011
11:04 pm
Pension fund deficits? Oh great – we have to pay for those too?
Moderate Line
March 9th, 2011
11:10 pm
The reason Blank wants a new stadium is that the ticket sales are split 60-40 with the away team. However, luxury boxes the home team keeps all the revenue.
Tommy Maddox
March 9th, 2011
11:49 pm
Raise the roof – add more Boxes.
ODDOWL
March 10th, 2011
12:05 am
The stuck on stupid, big house middle classers who vote Republican voted down a one cent sale tax increase to build trauma centers to save people’s lives. So a course they will support spending tax payer’s money to build a new football stadium. Stupid is as stupid do.
seabeau
March 10th, 2011
6:34 am
Word ! Thats exactly who will pay for it.Let the Falcon fans pay for the new stadium. Raise the tickets to $1,000. per game.
Le Bourgeois
March 10th, 2011
6:38 am
ODDOWL, despite your pejorative remarks on the voters who in fact defeated the trauma bill but yet throw support behind taxpayer funded stadiums, you are correct.
Mash
March 10th, 2011
7:47 am
Love this post.
Or we could do the unthinkable and lower the hotel/motel tax.
Baker
March 10th, 2011
7:50 am
36 people so far have voted for the new stadium. And Charlie Sheen is the biggest news right now. I fear for the future.
mrs. w
March 10th, 2011
7:53 am
ODDOWL@12:05…. I voted against the trauma center tax only because the government NEVER puts that money where they say they will.
Kyle: Blank can afford to build his own damn stadium.
lynnie gal
March 10th, 2011
7:56 am
What about “shared sacrifice?” If children have to sacrifice quality schools and teachers, if the state can’t afford “Obamacare” or public healthcare, if we indeed have no more money to fund HOPE and pre-K, why are people even talking about building a new stadium? To ignore other needs and insist on something like this is immoral and disgusting.
Marie
March 10th, 2011
8:10 am
Years ago before Rankin Smith muscled the building of the GA DOME out of the taxpayers of this city and state; the Falcons and Braves shared the open-aired Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium. So if Mr. Blank wants an open-aired stadium he should enter into a leasing/profit sharing agreement with the Braves so the Falcons can use Turner Field. Turner Fields sits practically unused after the Braves season ends; so why would we want to invest millions of dollars to build another open-air stadium that will only be used 8x a year. As a business man Mr. Blank knows this is a waste of money. I can see if he were desirous of another Dome which has many more uses (basketball games, college football, concerts, conventions, etc.); but another open-aired stadium is just plain silly.
Jimmy62
March 10th, 2011
8:20 am
You’re right, Kyle. There’s absolutely no excuse to use taxpayer dollars on a stadium when there are already plenty of places we can spend that money that would be more useful. Like debt, for instance.
Road Scholar
March 10th, 2011
8:25 am
Besides the new statiums alledged location north of the Congress Center sucks! Right now it is the staging area for all the tractor trailers deivery to the GWCC for the shows. Someone better ask” Where will the trailers go?”.
carlosgvv
March 10th, 2011
8:33 am
“I”m not sure why we’re seriously debating a new stadium”
Most of us are in the above category but it is at least even money that a new stadium will be built anyway. Common sense logic about how to best spend $400 million will not work here. The wants and wishes of the very wealthy will, as usual, be the deciding factor.
Road Scholar
March 10th, 2011
8:35 am
And will its location attract developers to the Multi Modal Terminal and development of the gulch? I don’t think so!
Glenn
March 10th, 2011
8:38 am
@ Marie
Rankin Smith never wanted a dome . The city of Atlanta & the Olympic committee forced it on him . He played ball , at the expense of the falcon fans , so Atlanta could get the Olympics . Indoor football in Atlanta just plain dumb . It is as silly as anything in professional sports . I praise Arthur Blank on this move . If the city of Atlanta doesn’t want to pony up fine . An outdoor stadium in the suburbs will work just fine . I hope your Olympic memories were worth it .
Eric
March 10th, 2011
8:44 am
Right on, Kyle! We definitely don’t need a new stadium. Why did we bother building the GA Dome in place of Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium? What a spoiled group of short-term leaders we have if a new stadium is approved versus other more pressing issues! Why don’t these exorbitant NFL salaries be cut in half like the rest of us citizens to pay for the new stadium?
What if
March 10th, 2011
8:48 am
Twice in a row I agree with Kyle?! – What is this world coming to. The $400 million is pocket change for Blank. Want a new toy? Buy it yourself. As Kyle points out, we can use the tax bux in much better ways. (including reducing the hotel tax which MIGHT increase tourist revenue? (not so sure about that one))
Ragnar Danneskjöld
March 10th, 2011
8:56 am
Good morning all. I am a Braves fan. I have not watched a complete football game since the Super Bowl in 1984. And since I live outside the perimeter, I could not care less how much the citizens of Atlanta elect to punish themselves.
zeke
March 10th, 2011
9:02 am
DO NOT SPEND ANY ON THE RIDICULOUS BELTLINE, TROLLEYS, ANY MARTA PROJECT, AND THE TRAFFIC CONGESTING HOV LANES, USE THOSE FUNDS TO BUILD THE OUTER BELTWAY, AND NEW NORTH/SOUTH AND EAST/WEST EXPRESSWAYS! THAT WILL HELP TRAFFIC AND THE CITY!
Interested observer
March 10th, 2011
9:10 am
Wrong Kyle. A mill equals a dollar for ever $1,000 of a home’s ASSESSED value. That should equate to 40 cents per $1,000 of its fair market (actual) value.
hryder
March 10th, 2011
9:15 am
No taxpayer funds should be directly spent to build a new stadium in any city or state unless that city or state is to receive the same percentage of gross ticket, concession, parking, etc., receipts as the percentage provided for the total cost of the stadium. Also, Many professional sports teams lose money on paper but not reality. The owner(s) pay themselves extremely well for being whatever official title they hold with the team as well as selected family members. This remuneration is along with or prior to any other team financial salary obligations. When all other bills are being paid there well may be a shortage of funds which then comes out of the owners pocket to meet this shortfall. The owner obtained the money in his pocket from his extremely high salary from the team and the shortfall is deductible from personal income taxes. No team owner would keep a team if such ownership resulted in an overall lose to the bottom line. Just check out the owners of the Miinnesota Twins.
joe
March 10th, 2011
9:19 am
In this economy, a new stadium is the last thing we need to be footing the bill for…
BW
March 10th, 2011
9:23 am
Unless we’re talking about anything other than an extension of an existing hotel tax, this is a moot point. The taxpayers wouldn’t approve a tax for any of these reasons and almost didn’t approve the extension.
Richard
March 10th, 2011
9:32 am
BigDawg said: “What taxpayer funds have contributed to UGA’s stadium? NONE! Let the free market work. If A. Blank wants a new stadium, let him build it! Too many taxpayer funds going to bailouts of big companies and special interests.”
Maybe you should use that UGA education to do some reading. 100% of the money used to build UGA’s stadium, and pay Mark Richt’s salary is taxpayer money. It’s all money that comes from boosters which are considered “donations”. Those donations are tax deductible to the booster. Therefore, the money that builds the stadium dwindles the tax revenue.
Taxed
March 10th, 2011
9:38 am
If Arthur B wants to build a stadium, great. If the city of ATL wants to grant tax abatements on the property, great. Heck – if they want to give him the land, great.
At the point GA Taxpayers start building the thing, no.
Kyle Wingfield
March 10th, 2011
9:40 am
Aargh — you’re right, Interested Observer. Thanks for pointing it out. As someone who’s currently appealing my property taxes, I’m not sure how I made that mistake. I’ll fix it above.
wallbanger
March 10th, 2011
10:08 am
I am a taxpayer, and I hate football.
R Pitts
March 10th, 2011
10:24 am
How about using that $400 million to address the city’s $700 million plus backlog of needed street repavings and repairs? The roads in the city are in the worst shape I have ever seen.
Idle Remarks
March 10th, 2011
10:30 am
Atlanta does not need the Falcons. The last time I looked they did nothing for this city.
Idol Chatter
March 10th, 2011
11:01 am
Atlanta does not need its world-infamous, ultra-aggressive, slow-walking, annoying panhandlers.
The last time I looked, they did nothing POSITIVE for this city.
ncgreybr
March 10th, 2011
11:17 am
On the front page it says that Blank is worth 1.6 BILLION and he want the TAXPAYERS to pay for HIS stadium? Let him take 400 million of that 1.6 and build his own.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 10th, 2011
11:43 am
I don’t live in Atlanta, so it’s probably none of my business, but it’s long since, past time for government to get out of the business of building stadiums for billionaire owners. This is corporate welfare at it’s worst.
Wyle Kingfield
March 10th, 2011
11:51 am
It would take the entire 400 million just to pick up the trash and garbage that is piled along Atlanta’s streets and highways. It is pathetic to live among the trash that is Georgia. As soon as you leave this state you’ll notice the total lack of garbage that lines the roads in other states. Atlanta is bad, but once outside the perimeter, it gets even worse. YeeeeHawwww.
Don’t bother to tell me when Delta is leaving either.
Rockerbabe
March 10th, 2011
12:07 pm
Screw the new stadium! The only reason for the desire for a new stadium is to get another successful super bowl bid. Who really needs all of the hooligans in the city after the last show and tell? The GA Dome was recently renovated and looks good; let the super bowl junkies enjoy what is already here. The overbearing demand for a bigger and “better” stadium is just a bunch of spoiled crybaby brats trying to throw their weight around during a recession.
We could use the money for so many other things. I like the water reserviour idea; lord knows, water is only going to be an even bigger issue in the future. Building improvements to mass transit will not only help the air pollution, but help with the looming gas price crisis. Other alternatives to getting around town are seriously needed and the time is now, not later.
We could also do right by our government employees and fund their pensions adequately. No one likes getting screwed over by their employer and I for one do not want the politicans to mistreat and continue to lie to the government employees about their retirement, espcially since most are not on social security.
A new stadium. . .absolutely not!
Bob
March 10th, 2011
12:27 pm
But can’t you just see yourself sitting there in the new open-air stadium, watching the Falcons win the NFC championship before playing in the Super Bowl on home turf? Can’t you just see it — the perfect armrests, the comfortable seats, the good sightlines? Wouldn’t it be swell?
Also, I can just see myself in that new Porsche, zipping down an empty stretch of highway, two hot chicks in the seat beside me.
But I can’t afford it. Or…well, ok, I actually could. I’d have to downgrade my house to a rented apartment, the kids could go on bologna sandwiches for a while, and retirement savings would have to be delayed. But if I did all that, I could afford it. Still, it would be irresponsible of me — there are better uses for that money.
The same is true here. Would a stadium be neat? Of course…though I’d add that it would be neat only for those who could afford tickets. But whether or not it’s neat, whether or not football is better outside, and whether or not that Porsche goes fast and gets me girls…the right answer is to be responsible.
We’ve got to put the kabosh on this scheme. But here’s the problem — you know it, I know it, and every taxpayer knows it. But will the Republicans in the state legislature listen to us, or will they listen to Arthur Blank? Will they face reality and the will of the populace, or will they be swayed by falsified figures and unrealistic projections from their buddies in the corporate world?
(And when they inevitably do the latter, will we vote them out — or will we keep them just because we bought some ideological nonsense about the “other side” (i.e. democrats) being evil? Will we just do what we always do and vote Republican out of inertia and blind devotion to a “team?” Oh, don’t be silly — of course we will.)
mike
March 10th, 2011
12:39 pm
Huh… It might not be a bad idea however maybe the Falcons need to win a championship first or at least get pretty close. Personally I won’t be going out there to watch a team which always fails in end.
Michael
March 10th, 2011
12:41 pm
Why do people in Valdosta, Waycross and Bainbridge have to pay for some stadium in Atlanta? How about this — work out a deal to sell naming rights to the Dome and jack up ticket prices and licensing fees for all your stuff so that your business can finance your expansion. Or get a loan. Or move the team to Los Angeles.
Do you ever hear UGA trying to replace ancient Sanford Stadium? No, because they can’t move the team! Yet somehow Sanford Stadium still remains adequate. Why is that?
Pat Robertson's Boy Toy
March 10th, 2011
1:29 pm
would much rather our tax dollars go to the Atlanta Falcons than to lazy, shiftless, rude, uneducated, jive-talking Obama Lovers.
75% of the NFL players voted for Obama — which means probably 90% of the Falcons did too. Putting that into context one would have to ask, “On a scale of 1 – 10 (10 being the highest), How stoooopid is your retarded question?”
Pat Robertson's Boy Toy
March 10th, 2011
1:41 pm
The stuck on stupid, big house middle classers who vote Republican voted down a one cent sale tax increase to build trauma centers to save people’s lives. So a course they will support spending tax payer’s money to build a new football stadium. Stupid is as stupid do.
Well of course!! Why do you think they want georgia to stay last in education? If they had “smart” people in the state, they’d have to pay for their own stadiums, and go fish projects, and……..
Grasshopper
March 10th, 2011
1:49 pm
Can’t Blank build it himself with all the crap from Home Depot?
The Anti-Wooten
March 10th, 2011
1:50 pm
I’m completely with you on this one Kyle. It’s not as though the Georgia Dome is crumbling and an embarrassment to the city and state. If sports teams want new facilities they should pony up 85% or maybe even more.
Curious George
March 10th, 2011
2:08 pm
Don’t ENOUGH of our tax dollars already go to pay for the illegitimate children fathered by Blank’s NFL Players?
DonH
March 10th, 2011
2:18 pm
While not a scietific poll, look at the poll results (255 total voters so far) in this column and see that 145 peeps want the $400 million spent on either beltline or transit improvements #1 OR highway improvements #2 (combine those two votes) VERSUS just 45 peeps #3 that want the stadium!
They will find a way to disregard what the majority wants and build it anyway! Fools!
Pat Robertson's Boy Toy
March 10th, 2011
2:41 pm
Don’t ENOUGH of our tax dollars already go to pay for the illegitimate children fathered by Blank’s NFL Players?
Nope, its only the children who live in trailer parks…..
yuzeyurbrain
March 10th, 2011
2:56 pm
Kyle, for once I am totally on the same page with you. I would add that the so-called “economic studies” done for the Dome appear to have been mostly spin pulled from the lower anatomy. What makes anyone trust the current numbers and the assumptions on which they are based any more reliable? Let capitalism work. If Arthur Blank wants a new stadium let him build it–he just made the Forbes list of the world’s richest.
captguitarman
March 10th, 2011
3:13 pm
Good column, Kyle. The party is over, in case you haven’t noticed. Chronic unemployment, foreclosures, bankruptcies, deficits, and federal, state, and local governments are all broke and looking at huge pension obligations impossible to meet. The federal deficit is almost beyond comprehension. There is a move on to replace government pensions with social security – which unfortunately is heading for bankruptcy too. Infrastructure in towns and cities all over America — sewer systems, roadways, bridges, are crumbling from age. And we want to replace a perfectly good and servicable stadium, that could stand some reasonable renovation and remodeling, with years and years of usable life left in it? When are we going to get it? And because outdoor stadiums are the lastest NFL fashion trend? Ironically, the Super Bowl has not been back to Atlanta since 2000, the year that Atlanta was hit by and ice storm on Super Bowl Sunday, causing the crowd to arrive late and creating a negative economic impact. But they want outdoor games now ??? Kyle, good article, as noted, but don’t lose site of that fact that a deal like this means “bidness” in Atlanta in particular and in Georgia in general — lots and lots of bidness. Many constituencies and mouths to be fed on a deal like this, with a $700 million pie to cut up. Can you imagine the all of the expenses paid European vacations, golf vacations, college and professional tournaments and bowl games and Super Bowl weekends and trips, and the mega wining and dining, free stays in luxury hotels, and gifts and perqs and freebies that something like this will generate in City Hall and under the Gold Dome?? I think you forgot to mention that factor, and we all deem it trivial or unimportant at our own expense. Why else would something like this in times like these have any traction at all? There will be an army . . . nay, a horde, of special interest groups and lobbyists descending upon local and state government reps if this thing stays alive. All with scads of dough enough to get the attention and buy the influence of the right government reps. Oh, but the surrounding neighborhood will benefit, they say. Is that some kind of a bad joke? People will come, spend their money, and promptly get the heck out of there as soon as the game is over. Or am I missing something that is not happening at every sports stadium in America in a comparable locale? It’s bidness, Kyle . . . bidness. It will help the Falcons, those who build it, and those whose government approval is needed, and that’s it. You should know that by now living here in Atlanta and in Georgia.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 10th, 2011
3:26 pm
If Arthur Blank wants a new stadium let him build it–he just made the Forbes list of the world’s richest.
That’s how some of these guys get to be on the list; get some sucker to pay your bills.
Football Lover, Wasted Tax Money Hater
March 10th, 2011
3:26 pm
After we have to pay to raise all those unwanted, neglected, illegitimate ‘kidz’ created by all these promiscuous NFL Players who Arthur Blank further enables to bed equally-immoral women by giving them million$$$ and turning them loose on our society, our tax dollars will eventually also have to go toward arresting and incarcerating these fatherless monsters once they reach adulthood and relying on robbing and stealing for a living.
Mr. Blank can pay of his own stadium instead of stealing even more of OUR money, or he can take his not-so-precious Falcons to Los Angeles.
Keep your rich, greedy, adulterous, perverted hands out of OUR pockets, Mr. Blank!
Tundra Dude
March 10th, 2011
3:51 pm
yuzeyurbrain@2:56 pm, wrote, in part:
I would add that the so-called “economic studies” done for the Dome appear to have been mostly spin pulled from the lower anatomy.
I’ve seen these “studies” from other stadium projects. The so-called benefits are mostly fluff.
—————–
Let capitalism work.
Actually, in it’s present form, it’s socialism. All the TV $ is thrown into a (commie) pot, and divided equally.
goggle this:
New Rule: Americans Must Realize What Makes NFL Football So Great: Socialism
Bill Maher January 30, 2011
——————
If Arthur Blank wants a new stadium let him build it–he just made the Forbes list of the world’s richest.
Imo, the owners should socialize the costs of building new stadiums. Each team donates a % of net profits (no fudging) towards building one new stadium every year or so.
killerj
March 10th, 2011
4:02 pm
To be used for home depot survival…………..? the smells killing me.Go Tea Party.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
March 10th, 2011
4:50 pm
The question that hangs in my mind, though, is this: How could people who think of themselves as so intelligent be such suckers? How could they be taken in by an American black and a bushy-bearded “Muslim” talking in a grade-B Hollywood accent and really believe they were being offered $5 million? After all, these are people who define themselves as being intelligent. They’re the “educated elite” of whom we supposedly don’t have enough of in this country. And yet they were no more alert than a bunch of high school dropouts sitting around a shabby ACORN office in Baltimore. How do you explain that?
Just look at obozo if you want to know how smart liberals really are.
Loud mouth, busybody dullards all.
saywhat?
March 10th, 2011
5:05 pm
I am shocked at all the wealth envy on display by Kyle’s usually conservative readers. Blank should be rewarded for being successful, not punished. What do you not understand about not punishing success? Haven’t the wealthy suffered enough? Arthur Blank should get his new stadium payed for by the city, and then get a tax cut for letting us build it for him.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Thee Magnificent!!! mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
March 10th, 2011
5:07 pm
OK, so how come obozo hasn’t denounced this?
Milwaukee’s WTMJ-AM also reports that “the State Department of Justice confirms that it is investigating several death threats against a number of lawmakers.” The station quotes an email sent to Republican senators last night that began: “Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes [sic] will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks.”
Maybe because he’s the one who called it in?
Michael
March 10th, 2011
5:53 pm
Birmingham, want a team?
Cahill
March 10th, 2011
6:23 pm
If we pay for a new stadium, is Arthur Blank going to start sharing the profits from the Falcons games, team merchandise sales, concession stands, etc.? I don’t think so.
Question Man
March 10th, 2011
9:45 pm
Do you think Mayor Reed and Arthur Blank read these comments? Do you think they are getting the message?
mdbatl
March 11th, 2011
12:42 am
Paying for a new Falcons stadium!? Haven’t we, as Falcons fans, suffered enough?
As much as I hate to say it, Atlanta is a fickle sports town. Foisting a tax upon everyone in the city and state to a replace a recently renovated stadium is a terrific way to alienate everyone. A rare consensus among political parties– all of the options above are better than spending tax money on a new stadium.
Richard, my double UGA education is good for many things besides reading– like calling out your economics lesson. While you’re right that a donation to the UGA athletic department is tax deductible, you’re way off in suggesting that’s where “all” or “100%” of the money comes from. First, Sanford Stadium was built in 1929 (and currently in no danger of being replaced), so whether or not any tax dollars were used is irrelevant at this point. Georgia and Mark Richt get most of their revenue from TV contracts, merchandise sales, and endorsements. Plus, the donations are not entirely tax deductible– something like 80%. Given that most UGA fans give the minimum amounts to keep their seats anyway, you’re taking a pretty minimal amount out of state revenues.
allen981
March 11th, 2011
2:44 am
Very well put, Kyle. If Arthur Blank wants a new stadium to increase the value of his already billion dollar NFL franchise, let him build with his own money. There’s not a single benefit of this project to the citizens of Georgia.
The Dome is a huge competitive advantage already…
KimZ'sPackage
March 11th, 2011
3:40 am
Put it in a HUGE grass field in a majority white area of town. Fans can tailgate, feel safe, and it would create jobs for the white people looking for work. I wouldn’t leave my nice car, truck, or van in vine city with all my tailgating equipment while I watched the game. Falcon fans don’t want to support more hotels, restaurants, shops, or neighborhoods. They want Grass areas to park and tailgate. We have no interest in spending more money for STUFF other than what we are bring to our party. We don’t care about helping to make Vine City better for the people living there. We are going to Party for a day about 8 to 12 Sundays a year. Who cares what happens to that area when it is not Home Game Sunday. First it was Underground now Atlantic Station and people haven’t learned. These mixed use areas don’t work too well. You need people to work and shop and live. The people that would work in the stores can’t afford to live there. Business people don’t want be around the scumbags that end up hanging around waiting to rob steal from hard working people. Somebody making more that 80k/yr ain’t going to live next door to a $5 crack chick.
We don’t need a new stadium. If the Taxpayers are going to build the stadium, then the Falcons need to be like the Packers. The people get to own the team if we build them the home.
KimZ'sPackage
March 11th, 2011
4:36 am
Some basic # from the Stadiums.
Atl Fulton Co Stadium cost $18 million. It was used year round for the braves too.
$18 mil/ 26yr = $692307.69/yr
Say the Falcon played 10 games/yr that is 260gm. The Braves played there too so cost was much less
$692307.69/ 260gms = $2662.72/game( don’t forget the Braves used it too)
$2662.72/game is a good price
The Ga DOME cost $214 Mil. High school games, bowl games, basketball games and some other events have been held in the Dome too.
$214 mil/ 25yr = $8560000/yr
Say there were 10 Falcon games/yr The Super Bowl, the NCAA Tourney, and Bowl Games made some big money.
$8560000/ 250gm = $34240/gm yes there were a few other events to help lower this cost, but this was no Bargain.
$700 mil/ 25yrs = $28 mil/yr
$28mil/ 250gm = $112000/gm
Yes there will be some other events at the New OUTDOOR Stadium, but not as many as can be inside at the DOME.
Mr. Blank if you can’t afford to build the NEW STADIUM without the taxpayers help, then sell the team to somebody who can afford a new stadium on their own dime OR NO New Stadium OR The People of Georgia get to own the team just like the Green Bay Packers. It is not for the Tax Payer to make a place for your team to play and help fix the ghetto around your new toy house. The Tax money could be straight spent on better projects that will last longer than the 25 years the Stadiums seem to be useful before needing replaced.
KimZ'sPackage
March 11th, 2011
4:56 am
Build A. Blank a new stadium with tax money, but Artie and his wife have cook dinner every night at their home. They have to invite and eat dinner with every tax payer in the state if he wants our business. He has to treat us just like he would if he were wanting money from an investor or bank.
seldomfound
March 11th, 2011
4:58 am
I’ve heard the the real issue is that the financial arrangement with Mr. Blank and the Falcons is not beneficial to them. Couldn’t we re-organize the financial structure of the deal with the current dome for much cheaper than we could build a new stadium? Hell – I’d move that we give all the revenue from the Falcons games to them if it meant avoiding a new stadium (especially one that’s outside, and a long walk from any marta station).
winkasdad29
March 11th, 2011
7:54 am
I’d much rather see the Georgia Dome undergo a renovation that would bring it on par with other NFL stadiums. Put on a retractable roof and add the skyboxes Blank wants. Let Mr. Blank pay for it with his own money.
By the way, Kyle this is an excellent article. Let’s use that $400M for things we really need.
Andy
March 11th, 2011
8:03 am
Kyle… you sir, are a moron.. the bigger problem is that they want to build it just down the street, so either way, it is still too close to the ghetto parts of town where we have some of the worst crime.. terrible views for those people who will want to tailgate.. unless you get rid of a good mile or two of everything on the other side of Northside Drive.
Call it like it is
March 11th, 2011
8:07 am
How about this the Falcons actually win a superbowl, then we talk about a new house. In regards to who pays for it, Blank does. In regards to the dome, nothing wrong with it. Have had season tickets for the past two years in the dome, had them for 5 at Fulton County. Every fan I talk too from another team loves the comfort of the dome, including Green Bay. It’s not like an outdoor stadium is going to make them better. Don’t recall any rings being won in Fulton County.
Silly, people losing jobs, owners,players fighting for money, people losing homes, and the Falcons are demanding a new home. Please.
Timmy
March 11th, 2011
8:56 am
There is nothing grosser in professional sports than indoor football in Georgia . After reading these comments it is clear the best idea would be to have an outdoor natural grass stadium built in the suburbs . Deepening of the port in Savannah ? Really Kyle ? Really ? Let the city of Atlanta not be burdened with the Falcons anymore . Hopefully the powers that be have read this enlightening article & will figure out away to bring in less revenue so they can fix there infrastructure , pension , and budget problems .
Richard
March 11th, 2011
9:37 am
Why not have the Falcons play at Turner Field? Take some of the bed tax and run a Marta train to Turner field, then you’ve solved a couple of problems for a lot less money.
There is very little overlap between Falcons and Braves games. The 49′ers do it…and their baseball team went all the way in post season.
The poeple working at Turner field would have more events to be employed, and with more events maybe more development near Turner.
John
March 11th, 2011
9:51 am
Stadiums should not be paid for by taxpayers. They should be built by team owners and financed by those that go to the games. I have never attended any sporting event and never will, why should I have to pay for their venue? Any money available should be going toward reducing my property taxes.
bill
March 11th, 2011
10:10 am
For my name changes I have two words for you…Lambeau Field…. Green Bay you know the Super Bowl champs. That team and stadium are owned by the people of Wisconsin. That stadium is open air and built at least 50 years ago. Go ahead and build Arthur Blank a new stadium and he can sniff some body elses jock now that Mike Vick is an Eagle. At least Win something Arthur before you fleece the public.
atlpaddy
March 14th, 2011
9:20 am
Dear Kyle and all the idiot posters – the City of Atlanta is not giving away $400 million to Arthur Blank. That would be our “Republican” politicians in the Georgia General Assembly. The proposed site is located on land owned by the GA World Congress Center. Therefore, put the blame on the ‘fiscally responsible’ Georgia Republican Party.
Blank Rules
March 14th, 2011
1:33 pm
Billionaires like Blank run the city and he will get what he wants for the new stadium, when he wants it, by threatening to leave the city. He wouldn’t leave, but the city will be too scared to take a chance and give him $700 million – $1 billion—whatever amount he wants, even if he builds a stadium 1 mile from marta, open air. That’s why he’s a billionaire–he knows how to “convince” people to give him a lot of money.