Lies about tea party come true in Wisconsin

Fail.

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“The Republicans will not be happy until every worker is homeless and on food stamps.”

This is the type of rhetoric that makes the left so credible.

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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jeremiah Reeves and Tea Leaf Times, kwingfieldajc. kwingfieldajc said: Lies about tea party come true in Wisconsin http://bit.ly/igZ80C [...]

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Kyle, the only lie being perpetrated here is the one the Governor is selling. I have no allegiance with unions and believe they’re a big part of some of our toughest problems in reforming education, for example. That being said, this has nothing to do with balancing the state budget and everything to do with creating a political advantage for republicans for the next decade or more.

Once again, a politician takes a serious issue and, instead of solving it, lies to the public and uses it for his own political gain. This is repugnant behavior by the Governor and dolts like you should be calling him out for what it is.

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I’m not sure those were lies about the tea party. I think they were quite true as many bloggers on the other side gave the same anecdotal evidence you just provided.

The Republicans started this garbage, now we all have to deal with it because Democrats will change their tactics since it evidently worked for Republicans. Its a downwards spiral that both sides are working diligently to make go even lower.

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Allowing public sector unions makes slaves of the taxpayer. Your elected officials are supposed to represent and be held accountable by the voters not the unions. It makes a mockery of our democratic republic to allow government workers to unionize. What we need is a constitutional amendment that outlaws public sector unions. Those that support public sector unions are no better than those that supported slavery.

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Oh, RIGHT, Kyle, the spontaneous protests in Wisconsin are the exact equivalent of the front group known as the Tea Party, which is wholy subsidized by the Kochs. Meet REAL people power! Whatever makes you feel better.

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Kyle, have the repubs/conserves ever left Wisconsin or other states to not allow a quorom?

jsmith: “It makes a mockery of our democratic republic to allow government workers to unionize.” It’s a democratic republic…you know where we pull our insufficient revenues from all to pay for two unfunded wars that all do not support. The people have a right to collective bargaining; just like the politicians have a right to agree/disagree on the conditions requested for the peoples’ continued employment!

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Oh Kyle, up at 4:56 this AM? Union busting won’t let you sleep?

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Students of Wisconsin….UNITE!
Now is the time to Strike.

Pizza and/or 100% Meat Hamburger option EVERYDAY.
NO MORE surplus government cheese in the Macaroni.
Fast-food style beverage bar(with chipped ice).

There is NO WAY our controlling authority teachers could admonish us for striking.

Scheduled for Friday.

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Hard for me to not enjoy Taranto – great wit.

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Elections have consequences. When you go crazy, like 53% of the population did last November, this is what you get.

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Kyle, like all the other 12-year old boys who get somehow hired to write columns, shouts at the world “Yeah??? So’s Your Mother!!!”

Well played, sir. Well played indeed. Come back when you’re ready to discuss things like an adult. Rent a grown-up view on the world if you cannot create your own.

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Kyle is nothing but a “quota” hire by the AJC to rile up the Deliverance crowd on a daily basis.

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have to agree with your critics this time, Kyle. The evidence is pretty clear that the “Tea Party” is comprised at least to some extent by less-educated and relatively immature individuals with poor control of their emotions who are very easy dupes of the right wing (most certainly not to be confused with conservative) manipulators. The governor gave away the farm in breaks for his rich private sector buddies and wants to pay for it by running ordinary people into the ground. My guess is that if the many people like Walker treated others like fellow human beings rather than slaves more worthless than dirt we wouldn’t even HAVE unions. Wouldn’t need ‘em.

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Kyle, you’re right on the mark! But nothing is spontaneous any longer about these demonstrations. Lot of money flowing in the state from all the unions because so much is at stake. People on this blog are in denial and some are quite delusional when it comes to the reprehensible conduct taking place in the name of peaceful demonstration that is more like thuggery. Enjoy the great show!

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I think this “blogger’ needs to work a real job. Let hem do back breaking work for little to no pay and be terminated if he gets injured or sick…it’s nice and safe on your typewriter…ghee into the Real World..get a Real Job

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Enter your comments here

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This is what happens when you put people in office that are more concern about themselves. Always remember, “People that speak well are liars!!! I read this sign that stated, attorney’s are paid liars. I will continue to pray for our country. God is my strength and not man.

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Wow. Liberal minds cannot see even the obvious. It would be embarrassing if they did not vote and have reprecussions on all of us.

What this article is about is the hypocrisy of the left and the left leaning media. Sorry I had to explain it to you, but apparently ya’ll simply don’t get it. The Dems jump up and down and claim conspiracy (Koch Bros) when they have George Soros (hypocrisy), they claim that “elections have consequences” (to quote Mr. Obama) yet they refuse to accept the consequences if ti goes against them (hypocricy), etc etc

“Union busting” is another in a simple line of perjorative terms designed to rile up the left wing base. And judging form these blogs, it works.

Like ObamaCare, the voters will get another chance in 2 years, and if the politicians in Wisconsin have overstepped their bounds, they will be voted out. Just as has happened to Dems in 2012. So, clam down folks, unless you wish to continue your hypocritical behavior ad nauseum.

My only real objection to what I see happeneing in Wisconsin is to object to public service employees walking off the job to picket. As I understand it, that is specifically forbidden in their existing contract. But whether that is true or not, it CERTAINLY belies the true reason for the protests…it is NOT about the children, it is about feathering one’s own nest.

Now, the politicians wish to give workers to right to choose a union (or not) every year, they wish to give the workers the right to choose whether to pay union dues or not….things like this actually give people MORE personal freedom. I just wish everyone would get away from their talking points and actually look at the issues. So far, I have not seen any Dem bloggers who have made any sense on that score.

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Someone, please explain to me why the employes of we the tax payers need unions to represent them! We all know that the need for unions rose out of the exploitation of workers prior to decades of legislation designed to protect workers. Are we to believe that we the tax payers are such tyrants to work for that our employees need a union to protect them from us? I think a much more plausible explanation would be that it’s an exploitation of the tax payer by unions backing politicians in return for benefits.

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Just for the record, I lean neither Left or Right, but I am a realist. Whenever someone tries to comvince me that if it weren’t for Unions, we’d all be working 7 days a week 15 hours a day next to our 6 year old children, I always say BS. yes, Unions did a lot of great work in creating the parameters that we all work under today. However, all workers are now protected by state and federal laws which prohibit the “sweatshop” practices of yesteryear. And please don’t give me the 40 hour work week line either. Anyone who has worked as an EXEMPT level employee knows this to be a crock of shizz!

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Unions were created to bargain for their fair share of corporate profits. The fundamental problem with public sector unions is that there is NO corporation and there are NO profits to speak of, only confiscated taxpayer funds. What results is collusion – bordering on racketeering – as unions donate campaign funds to the very same politicians who eventually negotiate new union contracts. This is why Franklin Roosevelt said, “It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.” Public sector employees now make MORE on average than private sector workers do, have more generous benefits and are almost impossible to fire as well.

Given that the Wisconsin schools produce some of the worst reading and comprehension results in the country tell you all you need to know about these ‘teachers’ taking bogus sick days and dragging students out to the protests with them. If the unions are successful in maintaining this status quo, I won’t mind at all when the governor exercises his OTHER option and the layoffs begin.

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Tclabby – “How convenient of you to ignore the issue of destruction of the unions.”

okay, I’ll play Devils Advocate. What have the Unions done for me in the last 20 years?

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the cost of living is right, the food is great, the caipirinhas are delish, and the scenery… it’s THE scenery stupid

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Amen Kyle—keep preaching. There should be no place for government unions it is a direct conflict of interest issue as the politicians who gave up ridiculous benefits are funneled money for their election campaigns from the same unions they negotiate with. There is also the issue of people who don’t wish to be union being forced to give their money to them. Let them spend their money on 401k’s rather than union dues. Anyone not seeing this situation clearly need look no further than the school superintendents salaries in Pa, NJ, and Ga. Case closed.

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Let’s take away people’s power to negotiate and pay them less. Sounds grand. You republicans are a little slow. This will affect you guys as well. Profits and paychecks don’t have political affiliations.

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Liberals won’t be happy until all the states have balance sheets that look like California and Illinois. Or worse yet, like Washington’s. Now, if only Georgia could get our liberals to move to Wisconsin.

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Still waiting on answer as to what the Unions have done for me in the last 20 years. Or even more to the point, what protections do they offer me that aren’t already covered by the state and federal regs?

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…how unions tend to create inefficient situations that lead to companies going out of business and people losing their jobs.

Maybe you better alert the men and women at Lockheed Martin. Boeing, Northrup Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Haliburton, L-3 Communications and on and on and on, that they are about to lose their jobs because of labor unions.

Oh, that’s right. THOSE corporations don’t count, do they?

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This issue is not about job creation that would strengthen the economy
its not about building a stronger Manufacturing base its simple, its about control and greed take from the poor and give to the rich.
Our Federal government created the N.L.R.B. to ensure this type tactic would be follow through FAIRLY, The bargaining process works it has for years, we do not have to go back to the sweat shop era. If you need to make cuts start at the top from the govenor wages put his pension in line with state workers entittlements, have him pay for his health care,
have him pay for spouses benefits then do the same for the State senate and Representatives then only allow them to receive penison off One federal retirment plan and not double dip in all goverment plans. again start at the top, have the people vote on all wages.We dont have to do Union busting we need to balance a budget,this has all the appearances of refusal to bargain in good faith and a elected Goverment that, has fail its people. Maybe its time to go toa part time State goverment with sallaries that are in-line with there proformance.
enough is enough Union busting will not work in WISCONSIN.MICHIGAN. OHIO. OR ANY OTHER STATE. The Teaparty and Republicans are the same
they want the middle class to desolve while taking all advantages of what has been created by a party progressive fair and, equal change.

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Extreme rhetoric = straw man. When labor supporters chant “kill the bill” it’s not the same as when it’s said by the side that’s also known for its nativism and vigilante violence (Oklahoma City). Plus, people chanting “kill the bill” are promoting social justice, not making a call to reclaim some lost cultural purity. Thus, it’s different.
Violence = straw man. See above. Leaving aside for a moment the Tides Foundation episode and the Austin plane crash, show me one significant act of violence in Madison to approach the kicking of a person we saw in Kentucky last year.
Partisan AstroTurf. = straw man. There’s every reason to think Wisconson residents are in support of the union activists. Plus, a side where the candidate himself is an astroturf-generated front man for the Koch brothers agenda has no call to level this charge against its enemies.
Refusal to accept election results = straw man. As we saw in Egypt, elections are ultimately contingent and subject to abrogation by the people when those in power act in an autocratic manner. In other words, representation – through democracy or any other means – without justice is subject to the checking influence of the people. You’d think the people who romanticize the rebellion of the US revolutionaries against Great Britain, of all people, would appreciate this point.
Stupidity = straw man. To quote Animal House: fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life. Likewise, complacent and suddenly gripped with misdirected pseudo-rage is no way for people to go into old age, as so many Tea Party members tend to do (misplacing their rage from its proper targets, which should be the rapacious Wall St. financiers raping the country).

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Using the force of government to guarantee yourself a larger piece of the American Pie is coming to a rapid end.

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They can have a union all they want, but no public tax dollars should go to government worker’s beholden to anyone else but their employer(us). Fire all union members. We don’t have the money to entertain these mathematically challenged socialists. Employment is based on production and merit in every industry. Why are they excluded?

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What the signs and name calling prove is that one is always foolish when one adopts the “holier than thou” belief in their positions.

You could take some of the prior Tea Party and some of the current pro-union signs and change the subject and the same signs would be usable. I have saved in my system signs showing Obama as Hitler and Governor Walker as Hitler.

Same sign, different subject.

But as Sarah pointed out a few weeks ago we have the right to peacefully assemble and petition the Government.

“Congress shall make no law… abridging…the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

And if we end up making complete fools of ourselves in the process, well, the Constitution does not prevent that. It is one of those 9th Amendment rights: “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

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Left Wing Whiner,

What part of using the force of government do you not grasp? I understand your need to shift the debate because you have nothing to stand on, Yet you still fail.

Socialists are challenged in math. They do not understand the concept of negative numbers.

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george bedula @6:00 am “mr. wingfield are you on the payroll of the koch brothers, as is your false hero governor walker.”

I’m loving how the left is using the Kochs as if they fund every evil the Republicans can possibly be blamed for, while completely ignoring George Soros’ dirty hands and cheerleading efforts (MoveOn,org) to support the Democrats. Not to mention the dozens of other billionaires who contribute mightily to Democratic candidates and causes.

The “DEMOCRAT BILLIONAIRE DONORS LIST” includes Democrat “powerbrokers” including, Steven Spielberg, George Soros, Charles Ergen, Vance K. Opperman, Daniel Abraham, Warren Buffett, Jeffrey Katzenberg, Robert F.X. Sillerman, George Lucas, Alice Walton, Paul Allen, Sumner Redstone, Bill Gates, William Barron Hilton, Eric Schmidt, William Randolph Hearst III, Marc Benioff, Anthony Pritzker, Ray Milton Dolby, Charles Schwab, Robert Kraft, Gordon P. Getty II, Oprah Winfrey, Steven Ballmer, Ralph Lauren, Jeff Bezos, Henry Samueli.

When these folks donate to Democratic causes, it’s all fine and good and not at all buying the government they want. When the Kochs donate to Republican causes, it can only be corruption.

Of course, reality seems to be different. One can visit OpenSecrets.org or NewsMeat.com to see donations made by the Kochs. David Koch has contributed about $2.5M to Republican (and Libertarian) candidates for office, PACs, etc.

OTOH, Mr. Soros has given more than $3.6M to Democratic candidates for office, Democratic PACs and such (DNC, etc.).

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Left wing management @9:45 am People on the Wall St / Washington revolving door of ultra-lucrative career slots sure seem to be using the “force of government” to their own benefit, and not just to get themselves a “larger piece of the American Pie” as you naively put it, but to steal the whole damn pie itself.

Sure they are. And who do they support with their campaign donations to keep the government they want in power? Well, generally speaking, whichever party they can get that will keep them the way they want. Goldman Sachs, for example had given 65-35 Dems-Reps for years (in 2008 cycle GS gave $4,348,938 to Ds and $1,508,961 to Rs, 74%-26%). Right up until Ds passed the most recent finreg bills, at which point the numbers reversed, in 2010 cycle so far GS has given $963,175 to Ds and $1,475,202 to Rs (39%-60%).

Tea Party protesters were *against* TARP that gave billions of dollars to Wall Street firms and *against* the bailouts that gave billions of dollars to GM and Chrysler and *against* the continuing bailouts of Fannie and Freddie to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, and in general want to severely limit the power of the Federal Government. How in the world can you say they support giving increased power, via government supports, to Wall Street?

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America would be a better place today had we just taken the bitter medicine and let those that speculated beyond their means to fail.

Solid businesses would have picked up the pieces, the United States would be trillions less in debt today.

And it would have served as a reminder to all that due diligence is not a suggestion, but a requirement.

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Left Wing,

There was plenty of opposition to the bailout. A few people, who had control were the ones that insisted the bailout must occur. That did not make them correct.

Bush was wrong, Paulson was wrong, Bernanke continues to be wrong and Geithner hasn’t a clue.

A belief does not make it the truth does it?

Those that make and lose money in transactions on Wall Street engage in ‘voluntary transactions.

There is no obligation for the Federal government to bail anyone out. It is not their role to sve the losers from their failures.

They bailed out their friends using fear as the lever.

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John Galt:

Ok, I see where you’re coming from. Well in any case things didn’t work out that way, so we can’t know what would have happened if they’d “let the cards fall where they may” and can’t test your theory or know if you would have really been ok with it. But maybe you would have.

“Bush was wrong, Paulson was wrong, Bernanke continues to be wrong and Geithner hasn’t a clue.”

I am certainly in agreement with you there. By the way, I take it from your omission of the name Greenspan that you don’t think he was wrong?

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Oh, by the way, j smith “Hitler was a socialist, need I say more?” I can’t let that one stand.

Hitler parodied socialism and brought about its opposite in every conceivable way.

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Left Wing,

Greenspan was wrong as well.

No you cannot test my theory. But you dislike the results of the actions that were taken do you not?

Even more important is the principle behind it all. It is NOT the role of the government to bail out anyone. Government should NOT be trying to pick winners and losers, or save losers from their own failure.

With their “good intentions”, they pick the wrong solution nearly every time. It’s because you cannot rule by the Good Intentions Principle and be effective.

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Galt,

You make outstanding academic arguments that, viewed in a vacuum, make absolute sense. Intuitively, I agree with much of what you opine. However, the market in which you invest so much faith has zero concept of nationalism or strategic interests. Total reliance upon the market means we cease to be a country. Furthermore, inasmuch as we exist in a “global economy” , your total reliance upon the market puts the US at HUGE economic disadvantage when contrasted with our global competitors who eschew market based economics in favor of varying degrees of statism.

Again, you make great points. And they’re founded in logic and reason if viewed in a vacuum. Here in reality, though, they make no sense at all. So, we’re left with the option of injecting as many market based principles into the economy/world in which we actually live.

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I am still waiting to hear how the Governor of Wisconsin expects to attract and retain qualified teachers by slashing salary and benefits.

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Do all native Georgian’s hate unions? As if the union is the root of all evil, causes all corporations to fail, and is a yankee only endeavor.

Also appears that your one true hatred of unions prevents you from reading and/or comprehending anything other than – unions must die.

They are protesting because they do not want to lose their right to collective barganing.
They have already agreed to pay more for benefits.

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On the issue of violence, Mr. Wingfield gives us the following as evidence of violence:

“Blogress Ann Althouse, a state employee based in Madison, posted a video of municipal salt trucks blowing their horns in support of the unionists. A YouTube commenter responded (quoting verbatim), ‘whoever video taped this has no life and should be shot in the head.’”

What am I missing here? The person who posted the video is pro-union. The person advocating violence here appears to ANTI-union.

As far as I can tell, Winfield projected anti-union threats of violence onto union supporters in order to make his case.

Nevertheless, the arguments against violent rhetoric associated with the Tea Party has less to do with commenters on blogs and websites, and more to do with Tea Party/Republican leaders. When President Obama or Bill Clinton or Chuck Schumer or DNC leaders or union leaders start using violent imagery when talking about their political opponents the way that Steele and Palin and other Tea/Republican politicians and pundits have, then let us know. Until then, there can be no comparison.

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Left wing management @11:41 am Clearly we have fundamentally different philosophies. In my view, the claim “it is NOT the role of the government to bail people” to “pick winners”, etc. is based on an idealist view of some state of natural harmony prior to government intervention. I reject this because there is no peaceful and harmonious ’state of nature’ that government interrupts. There’s always law, authority, and some sense of justice, whether that justice is based on egalitarian notions or loyalty to a tribe or deity or whatever.

Clearly we do. However, the negation of “it is NOT the role of the government to pick winners” is “it IS the role of government to pick winners”. Which, is not quite what you implied, which seemd to be something like “if government does not pick winners and leaves it up to the market, the market will kill us all”. If you believe that government should pick winners, then there’s not going to be any talking to you.

I take a different tack. I don’t think it is the government’s role to pick winners & losers. Specifically, I don’t think that the government should use its police power (taxes, etc.) or treasury (subsidies) to provide advantages for some players over others. I believe that the “equal protection” clause means just that.

That is not to say that there is *no* role for government to play in the market. Indeed, my vision for the “free-market” includes a solid government regulatory role. This role is limited in scope, though. Primarily, the government’s role should include creating regulations that promote and enforce openness and transparency in the marketplace. I have no problem with a firm charging 47% interest, as long as that interest rate is clearly and honestly spelled out I have faith that the open market will allow me to find competitors who charge less. The government should have a strong anti-fraud role, too, but perhaps that goes to openness and transparency. The government should have a role in ensuring contracts are honored (there’s that open and transparent thing again). It should also have a role in making sure businesses cannot dump external costs onto taxpayers (I’m thinking here of dumping toxic chemicals willy-nilly vs. proper hazardous waste disposal; on the other hand, such regulations must be carefully considered, e.g. outlawing CO2 emissions outright is disruptive…everyone breaths out CO2). And there’s a role for public safety regulations, but based on current knowledge, I’m more likely to trust a UL certification than an OSHA regulation.

The notion that government somehow can be trusted to pick winners and losers ignores the notion that they can be wrong and when they are it affects millions of people and billions of dollars. Consider that even Al Gore now concedes that subsidies for ethanol production was a bad idea. Do you want a government bureaucrat deciding whether smart phones should be based on iOS or Android?

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@Brain,

So your preference is to compete with the rest of the world knowing that their models eventually implode?

The market is billions of people all making decisions that best suit their own needs. No matter how much tinkering you attempt to do, as long as those billions have any amount of freedom in their decision making, the free markets will win.

And that is why you have such a concerted effort to limit your choices in everything you do.

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@Mpercy,

The only counterweight to big business you need is the consumer. They vote with their dollars each and every time they spend money.

Don’t like the labor practices of Nike? Do not buy their product. Don’t like how a certain company does research? Do not buy their products.

Sure, it takes effort and time on your part to do your homework. And it may even require a bit of sacrifice. But is it more of a sacrifice than $100 a month taken from you in union dues?

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“purely fair in its outcomes when left to run according to its own internal logic: i.e. the free market.”

What exactly is purely fair? Are you defining equal outcomes as what is fair?

Please expand upon this statement.

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Hey Kyle — still waiting for your critical review of GOP Governors. You couldn’t wait to jump on new democratic governors a few weeks ago and you said there “was plenty of time” to look at the new GOP governors — but since then,, nothing.

Could it be that you are just another partisan hack with a keyboard?

Remember, partisanship is an IQ test. If you still believe in democrats, republicans, libertarians, the green party or the tea-part, you failed the test. Sorry Kyle. Its not looking good for you.

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Linda, Gov. Walker doesn’t want the best, he wants the cheapest.

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Have you people heard about this. I reporter called Governor Walker pretending to be one of the Koch brothers. Of course, walker took the call, and told the person who he believed was his benefactor that he planned on LYING to get the 14 Democratic state senators to come back to Wisconsin.

In his conversation with “Koch”, Walker’s scheme was to pretend to be interested in talking with them with the promise that he would negotiate and that a vote would not/could not be held. Of course, it would be a lie, and with them in his office, the idea is that vote would be held under a technicality having to do with the Senators being in the building.

Walker also said that he explored planting some “troublemakers” among the protesters, but didn’t do it because he didn’t think it would be very effective.

This conversation reinforces what we already knew:

1. Walker is a liar.
2. Walker can’t be trusted as far as you can spit him.
3. Walker is wholly-owned by big, big money.
4. Assuming that it’s illegal for a political figure to “plant troublemakers” in a protest, Walker is a would be crook.

Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBnSv3a6Nh4

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In which universe were any of these comments lies about the Tea Partiers? Did Kyle not see the video of the Rand Paul supporter stomping on a woman’s head? Did he not hear Sarah Palin’s supporters chanting, “Kill him! Kill him!”? Him being then-candidate Obama. How about the creeps who took loaded guns to Obama’s rallies? Ever heard of the birthers, Kyle? Or the people who somehow imagine that ACORN rigged the election?

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Linda, to them that is a pay cut. That is the only way they can look at it.

Yet if your taxes go up, you better not call that a pay cut!

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One more thing. While the teachers were protesting in the streets, parents were staying home due to school closings, Dem. senators were taking holidays at the Holiday Inn & doctors were writing “excuses” in the streets, Republicans senators were still working for They, the People.
Recommended reading for Dems.: How to Win Friends & Influence People.

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Linda : “Dem. senators were taking holidays at the Holiday Inn & doctors were writing “excuses” in the streets … ”

The way you keep harping on this I’m starting to wonder if this aspect isn’t the part of it that upsets you most. Why is that Linda? Didn’t you take field trips when you were in school?

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John Galt: “What exactly is purely fair? Are you defining equal outcomes as what is fair? ”

What I was arguing is that equality of opportunity, not outcome, is guaranteed, but the market only makes sense when there’s a sense of justice in it. When that is lacking, problems ensue.

When you have a group of 13 hedge fund managers making $1+ billion in a single year, exploiting a tax loophole to pocket even more to boot, and then people start talking about public workers of all people as greedy, you know there’s a problem.

More generally though I was saying that you seem to think that because there’s no such thing as ensuring a “fair” outcome (in the sense of equal outcomes) that therefore any attempt to intervene and ensure a system with more fair outcomes is doomed to failure or is grotesque on principle. That assumption is false. Just as there’s no such thing as a “pure and fair” system, there is likewise no such thing as a “purely objective” system where any supervision by a government or whatever is removed and where the rules of the game work their way out naturally and purely. That, I claim, is a fantasy.

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Thanks for the check Mr. Soros.

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Georgie’s New Vurld Order : You will assimilated or ve vill crush you.

Ed Schultz and U.S. Rep. David Wu need to get a room.

BTW – It took our moron President nine days to speak in public about Libya. He jumped right in for Egypt. Why the delay? It must be the Koch brothers oil somehow.

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From the Socialist Party USA’s website:

Democracy in the Streets: Madison Mobilizes to Defeat the Anti-Labor Walker
by Omar Mohamad, Socialist Party of South Central Wisconsin and Billy Wharton, co-chair Socialist Party USA

The mass protests led by public employees unions in Madison, Wisconsin have been presented by some mainstream commentators as a labor’s last stand. They are not. They are a spark, a spark with the potential to create a new protest movement capable of revitalizing our unions, radicalizing student organizing and creating a space for democratic socialist politics. As socialists, we stand steadfastly in solidarity with this protest movement. We pledge to support the immediate goal of blocking Governor Scott Walker’s reactionary and draconian anti-union legislation and the longer-term project of building a serious left-wing political movement in the US.

The full statement is available to read at: http://socialistparty-usa.org/statements/wilabor21911.html

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Brian:

Interesting – and refreshing – post.

Actually though there’s no evidence at all that conservativism “beat the Soviets”? It’s also misleading to say :

“Conservatives helped build the financial institutions that, until they became a separate part of our economy and our society – existing completely outside our criminal justice system – fueled one of the greatest economic engines the world has ever known. ”

What arguably fueled one of the greatest economic engines the world has ever known was the New Deal era social pact – which saw top marginal tax rates in the 90% range for many years during the war and after – where Americans had jobs, a secure future, a decent wage, health care through their employers, generous investment in infrastructure (Interstate Highway System), and rising rates of college attendance (GI Bill). The conservatives were dragged into this kicking and screaming, but they fundamentally didn’t challenge it – until Goldwater drifted ashore.

Conservatism and liberalism are a perfectly symbiotic pair
Great insight – puts you to the front of the line in my book.

You’re also missing a very important element: the deregulation and Wall Street financial mania ushered in by the Democrats under Bill Clinton which set the table for the ravages to follow. A financial system eaten up with speculative corruption and with no real connection to real production in the general economy at all. This attitude of Wall Street first, crumbs for everyone else, is alive and well in the administration of Barack Obama, who seems determined to out-Clinton Clinton (who himself had out-Reaganed Reagan). So it’s in this sense that the two parties are truly symbiotic.

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From Wiki:
Jumping the shark is an idiom used to denote when a particular production effort has surpassed its relevance and reached a point of decline in quality that it is incapable of recovering from.

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left@6:02, You must be younger than I am because you seem so imma…never mind.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but FDR’s policies not only did not get us out of the Great Depression, but prolonged it for years. We didn’t get out of it until WWII began.
Also, FRD repeatedly deceived the American people before Pearl Harbor & is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans. His promise to keep American out of foreign wars was a deliberate hoax on the American people, for the purpose in insuring his re-election & enabling him to proceed with his plan of edging the US into war.
If he was such a great guy, why do you think the Constitution was amended after he left office to prevent another president from serving more than two terms?

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left@6:21, Teachers calling in sick who are not sick & attending union protests are not lying? That’s the lefties definition of honesty. You make me appreciate my teachers even more.
2/3 of the 8th graders in Wis. public schools can’t read proficiently. Check the Wis. Education Dept. website for details. The statistics are pathetic. Their reading ability has gone up 1 point since ‘98 despite many more increases in money per pupil.

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From the New York Times regarding FDR and unionization of government employees –

“Up through the 1950s, unions widely agreed that collective bargaining had no place in government. But starting with Wisconsin in 1959, states began to allow collective bargaining in government. The influx of dues and members quickly changed the union movement’s tune, and collective bargaining in government is now widespread. As a result unions can now insist on laws that serve their interests – at the expense of the common good.”

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/02/18/the-first-blow-against-public-employees/fdr-warned-us-about-public-sector-unions

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Linda: “It was much easier in the ’40s, ’50s, ’60s, etc. to deceive the American people”

Astounding, Linda, that you’d even make such an assertion given the appalling events of 2003 with mushroom clouds, WMDs, and so forth.

Americans less deceived now than in previous eras? Not a chance. Oh, and that network that bills itself (cynically, mockingly) as “fair and balanced”? Orwell would have a field day.

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Linda, more ADULTS watch SpongeBob SquarePants than watch FoxNews. Their viewership absolutely PALES in comparison to the network news, but it is somewhat proportionate to the % of Americans who think Obama is a Muslim terrorist born in Indonesia. Shocker, I know.

All that being said, there’s a place for FoxNews as a counterbalance to MSNBC which, aside from Morning Joe, is nothing but a non-stop commercial for the dem-o-rat party.

Let’s not pretend, though, that either extreme among the electorate has any REMOTE grasp on reality, reason or intellect. They’re both bankrupt in all instances.

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Linda:

“Why would the American people overwhelmingly watch “that” network, fair & balanced, at an all time increasingly rate, making it the number one cable news network, & why would its shows during both day time & prime time draw a viewership of twice that of all its competitors combined? Want proof? All you need to do is ask.
Astounding? That’s FOX News!”

Wrong. You’re the one who has been deceived. Linda wake up. Why do you think Fox always boasts of being “the number one ‘cable news’ network”? Because their viewer numbers pale in comparison to the the networks.

As of January 2011: The top four nightly news shows are:

1) NBC Nightly News – 10.3 Million
2) ABC Nightly News – 8.5 Million
3) CBS Evening News – 6.7 Million
4) The O’Reilly Factor – 3.8 Million

You have been mislead. Nearly THREE TIMES the people watch NBC than O’Reilly. How’s that for overwhelming?

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Linda: “I did not say that Americans are less deceived now than in the previous eras. What I said was that only liberals were.”

That’s a peculiar argument and I’m not sure how to respond to it. But, first of all, what is a “liberal” exactly? No, I’m not asking you for a Encylopedia Britannica definition, (In fact I’d rather not hear your opining on this matter.) But I wonder, is a liberal really the cartoon character that you’re painting. I have my doubts.

Anyway, you wrote:
Are you speaking of the Dems. in Congress who had the same intelligence as the Reps. & equal responsibility of scrutinizing that intelligence, who spoke vehemently about going to war on the floors of the legislature?

Is that supposed to end the argument? I think these people were idiots and spineless, craven cowards of the most loathsome sort who – right up to and including Hillary frickin Clinton – should have lost their careers for it. If we had any honor in this country there would have been a mass falling on swords – a collective hari-kari if you will – after this appalling show of cowardice, just as there should have been after the 2008 financial crash, which also was a direct result of human corruption. But hey, why run a sword through yourself when you can just brush yourself off and move on to the next station in your glittering career.

Are you saying that Iraq did not have or aspire to have WMDs?
Yes, that’s what I’m saying.

Why would the American people overwhelmingly watch “that” network, fair & balanced, at an all time increasingly rate, making it the number one cable news network, & why would its shows during both day time & prime time draw a viewership of twice that of all its competitors combined?

Because, as Plato and other thinkers have taught with depressing accuracy, human beings have a passion for stupidity. That’s why, Linda.

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Real Athens@10:12, You quoted me accurately as saying “cable news networks.” You listed the alphabet media. Don’t you know the difference?
I was comparing FOX to CNN & MSNBC that broadcast other than a couple of hours per day. Get the difference?

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Linda: The spill in the Gulf of Mexico was caused by a foreign-based, multi-national corporation. Do you think the U.S. government should have been responsible for bailing them out and using tax dollars to clean up a mess they were wholly responsible for.

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Linda: The chemical that was “sprayed” in the Gulf of Mexico was Corexit. It was applied to the oil slick and at the well head by British Petroleum. FYI: Do you know who makes the chemical Corexit — of which 800,000 gallons were used in the Deepwater Horizon spill?

The Nalco Holding Company, owned by BP and Exxon.

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Real@11:06, I’m trying to simplify this as best I can. NBC, ABC & CBS News don’t even come on at the same time as O’Reilly. These news shows come on in the mornings & at night after the local news. During the day, they broadcast soap operas & judge shows, among others. Cable News broadcast news 24/7, except for MSNBC who can’t get sponsors, & therefore must resort to cop shows & prison shows at other times.
I think we have both made our points.

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Linda: Fox, CNBC, CNN, MSNBC ad nauseum are on 24/7. Still, NBC beats them in NUMBER OF VIEWERS – COMBINED.

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Linda: You’ve changed the subject, once again. You said, and I quote:

“Personally, I feel that Sponge Bob could have done a much better job of sponging up the oil in the Gulf with his pants than what the Obama administration was able to do with chemicals. What do you think?”

I ask you you, again: “Do you think the U.S. government should have been responsible for bailing them (BP – a private, multinational corporation, based in the UK) out and using tax dollars to clean up a mess they (BP) were wholly responsible for?”

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Linda:

You can’t have it both ways, you wrote:

“If you don’t think Iraq did not have or aspire to have WMDs, you are out of touch with most of the world.”

You’d best put down the bottle and go to bed.

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Real@12:10, My discussion with another commenter was the EFFICIENCY of the O adm. in cleaning up the Gulf.
You changed the subject/discussion.
Your subject/question was WHO should have paid for cleaning up the mess. Whoever is deemed responsible in court, which has yet to be determined, for causing the spill should be held liable. Whoever is deemed responsible for delaying actions & using chemicals that made it worse, should also be held liable.
Whoever shut down drilling operations in the Gulf against court orders, causing the loss of thousands of jobs & contributing to our current spike in gasoline prices at the pump, contributing to our economic problems, should also be held accountable.

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Real@12:15, You only quoted one way, not both.
I don’t drink except for beer in the heat of the summer when my husband & I are both working outside. Any other time I drink beer makes me want to pull weeds.

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Left@12:30, I’m knocked over at how you think I think, but I’ve got some bad news for you. It doesn’t matter what I think, nor you. This issue will be decided in Wis. & about a dozen other states. It will be a win/win situation for taxpayers, students, patients, hospitals, governments (especially states), employees, parents, etc. State employees will gain more rights than they will loose. They will finally be free.
The losers will be public sector unions & Dems. & it will be a long, ugly trend with many battles.

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While generally sympathetic with the protesters in Wisconsin, I agree that the reckless rhetoric and Nazi swastikas on display at their rallys are unacceptable. Until one is prepared to condemn the demonization of “our” opponents, it is hypocritical in the extreme to complain about Fox News or anyone else that resorts to this disgusting tactic. Enough, already!

That being said, I am stunned by the righteous indignation expressed by Wisconsin Republicans who complain about the fugitive Democratic legislators’ attempt to thwart the democratic process and prevent the will of the people as expressed at the ballot box. How is denying the majority a quorum in Wisconsin any different from the Republican’s systematic abuse (my opinion) of the Senate fillibuster rule in Washington for the past two years? At least these Wisconsin Democrats had to get off of their legislative butts and drive to Illinois!

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the lefty talking points straight from Kos- the fabricated Evil Koch Brothers Conspiracy, the notion that bureaucrat unions represent “the right of free speech and assembly,” and of course the usual insults characterizing the Tea Party as stupid, elitist, uneducated, rich, trailer trash, millionaires and of course “racist.” blah blah blah.

It’s simple, lefties. Read the polls. The DNC and Big Labor have dug in here, like the Japanese on Iwo Jima, in a doomed cause: trying to defend the union goons with their fangs fixed in the taxpayer’s jugular, whining for more blood. You will LOSE; there is no justification for the public-union/Democrat money pump. The people are wise to the scam, and the more you try to justify it the more voters you alienate.

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All that’s missing is for the anti-Union Governor to send in a few agent-provocateurs (just like the good old days). Then, when the riots start, he can all in the national Guard and the Pinkertons (or is it Blackwater) and bust some heads in the name of ‘Law and Order’.

Fear, Hatred, Distortion, Distraction and Division is all Republicans have to offer America.

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don’t you just love the chicken #*4&@&$& politicians that left the state rather than doing what they were elected to do. Classic dems.

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