Wisconsin protests not about budget? In a way, yes
It didn’t take long for the meme that the government-versus-unions showdown in Wisconsin isn’t about the budget to make it from Ezra Klein’s blog to the rest of the liberal blogosphere. Maybe the JournoList lives after all.
But in a sense, our friends on the left may be correct. For people outside Wisconsin, this story is not about whether Gov. Scott Walker has to make public employees contribute X dollars more to their pensions or Y percent of their health insurance in order to close a deficit of Z dollars in 2012-13.
It’s about whether public-sector labor unions — and the disproportionate power they wield over the elected officials who are supposed to be their bosses — are an antidemocratic anachronism.
Actually, “anachronism” implies that they were appropriate at one time. No less of a progressive icon than Franklin Delano Roosevelt declared it “unthinkable and intolerable” to have government-worker unions which could strike against the taxpayers who fund their livelihoods — and whom the public employees are supposed to serve. It’s not clear to me that the case was ever really different after FDR’s time.
It’s one thing if auto workers go on strike and the assembly line shuts down for a time. It’s quite another when tenured teachers go on strike and the schools have to shut down for days at a time to accommodate them.
As James Sherk of the Heritage Foundation put it in a commentary on the New York Times’ website, “The founders of the labor movement viewed unions as a vehicle to get workers more of the profits they help create. Government workers, however, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money.”
Among many of the Americans who work in the private sector, the specter of teachers and other public workers going on strike only reinforces the idea that they fit squarely in a “ruling class” that includes politicians, lobbyists and other rent-seekers but excludes the average American.
This is why those who speak about an American plutocracy, essentially a combination of elected officials and the special interests who buy them off to get what they want outside what we consider the democratic process, are looking at the problem too narrowly. Most people probably wouldn’t label school teachers and bureaucrats as “plutocrats.” But what else can we say about those public employees who are refusing to perform essential services — on which government has a monopoly or near-monopoly in most cases — in order to subvert the mandate of the electorate, if not that they are undermining the democratic process?
They, and their Democratic allies in Wisconsin’s Senate, are using leverage that no other group of citizens has in pushing elected officials to bend to their wishes. That’s why all their talk about standing up for democracy rings so hollow.
And that’s why the left is partially correct: This is not only about Wisconsin’s budget.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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116 comments Add your comment
James West
February 21st, 2011
3:46 pm
Let’s be clear on the facts.
Estimates for budget shortfall that Wisconsin faces for the rest of this fiscal year, the fiscal year ending on June 30, 2011, amounts to nearly $140 million. This amount is less than 1% of the state’s budget.
The tax cuts that Walker and the Republican legislature just passed in Wisconsin take effect in the next fiscal year, beginning July 1, 2011, and amount to approximately $140 million. This at a time when Wisconsin faces about a $3-$3.5 billion deficit spread over the same two fiscal years (about 12 percent of Wisconsin’s budget) that begin in July. So much for shared sacrifice.
There are many ways to close theses gaps. Wisconsin could eliminate special interest loopholes, enact more user fees, funds not yet spent could be recaptured, etcetera.
But after just passing corporate tax breaks, Walker vows to cut spending over the next couple of years with no tax increases. So, he has to go where the money is, mostly in state aid to local school districts and city and county governments.
But how’s this for local control? Walker also proposes to pass a legislation restricting local governments from raise property taxes to make up for the expected shortfalls arising out of Walker’s proposed cuts. So, while Walker claims to want to give local governments full control of their budgets, he is simultaneously seeking to take away reduce local governments’ control their budgets.
How’s that for irony?
retired early
February 21st, 2011
3:50 pm
Kyle
Teachers may not have a ‘union’, but they are ‘organized’. They have political clout. Georgia teachers are very well paid. Georgia state employees have no clout…now, please educate us…how do their salaries rate in the private versus public workers debate?
We need MORE unionS
February 21st, 2011
3:52 pm
I’ve looked over all the comments, including Kyle’s non-response – but no answer. We have no unions in the public sector in GA – why are we in still in debt?
Why do our students score near last on every standard test? What caused all our problems?
We’ve had absolute republican–rule in this state for at least 10 years; what seems to be the problem? Everything should be GREAT, right?
Dan
February 21st, 2011
3:56 pm
FL, Thanks i agree with much of your post, I just try to keep it simple a couple of things at a time. The other part of my post is the qualitative side. Again, that troublesome constant of supply and demand rears it’s head, not only are there many teachers that need to be paid, the demand is such that the talent pool is woefully diluted. As with any other profession, so many teachers are needed, that in order to fill the necessary postions education needs to reach much further down the ladder, making Mr. B’s comparison of a teaching masters to a business or technology masters laughable. Masters degrees in general have become diluted but depending on the discipline holders or advanced degrees, will be in the top 20% or so, like everything else, when everyone has one, AND it is one of the largest segments of the work force, (teachers are by far the most numerous degreed profession)the pass rate for teacher certification is in teh high 90’s the pass rate for CPA’s around 15. Just because teaching is noble and just because someone has a masters degree in it doesn’t mean they are good at it
Fletch
February 21st, 2011
3:57 pm
I must have missed the meeting around the time that I graduated from college where my peers were told that they MUST teach or else. I looked at teaching, and ran the numbers over the long term and decided to pursue Corporate and eventually self employment. And by the way, to the previous poster, 10 hours a day? Where do I sign up? a 10 hour day would be a short day for me and my partners.
WAW
February 21st, 2011
3:58 pm
Rafe – “either give in to their demands or they shut down government”
I didn’t realize there was such a thing as a Republican Union member. But according to you the House of Representatives is full of them. Roy Barnes met a few too.
Egypt, Iran and now Wisconsin “screw the little man” governments a causing a howl!
tipster
February 21st, 2011
3:59 pm
John@3:33. Ah, yes, the old private vs. public school argument. Sorry, but that is comparing apples to tables. Why don’t private schools have the discipline problem of public schools? Why, of course, the private school can just kick them out. Why do private students perform much better than public students? What performance are you refering to? Private schools aren’t required to take the standardized tests public schools do. Even if they did, I am not aware of those results ever being published. But even if they took the tests and published the results, why would they perform better than public school students (as I would expect them to)? Maybe, just perhaps, they get to hand pick their students? Nah, I’m sure they are just better at teaching, right?
Dan
February 21st, 2011
3:59 pm
When comparing salaries, lets not forget to add the retirement portion and just not speak of annual. Many public sector employees retire in their 50’s comfortably and get another job to buy the extras
Fletch
February 21st, 2011
4:02 pm
Dan – “When comparing salaries, lets not forget to add the retirement portion and just not speak of annual. Many public sector employees retire in their 50’s comfortably and get another job to buy the extras”
Agreed. I’d also like to point out, that unless you are chained to a desk or a rock 24/7 with an evil Taskmaster looking down, everyone on this board and in this country is free to pursue whatever vocation they feel will generate them maximum ROI!
James West
February 21st, 2011
4:04 pm
“In Wisconsin, when comparing the total compensation (which includes non-wage benefits such as health care and pensions) of workers with similar education, public-sector workers consistently make less than their private-sector peers.”
http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/wisconsin_public_servants_already_face_a_compensation_penalty/
tipster
February 21st, 2011
4:11 pm
Kyle@2:29 “supportteachers: In Georgia the average teacher makes at least $10,000 a year more than the average of all workers; the average police officer makes 95 percent of the average of all workers, the average firefighter 85 percent: http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ga.htm#25-0000”
Invalid comparison, Kyle. When you compare teachers salaries to all occupations, you are comparing to all jobs regardless of education levels needed for the job. In other words, you are comparing earning level of those with a minimum of a bachelor’s degree with parking lot attendants who make $19,780. What would be a more valid comparison would be occupations of the same education levels.
Trusslady
February 21st, 2011
4:18 pm
From a lot of the comments, I can only surmize that you are jealous that you do not have a union negotiating for you with a company whose management is making bonuses based on how much they denigrate your pay and benefits. So, in your jealousy, you figure if you can’t have it, then no one should. Yes, let’s all sink to the lowest levels possible. Corporate America thanks you for your ignorance.
Road Scholar
February 21st, 2011
4:35 pm
Oh, by the way, today is a furlough day for the teachers in Wisconsin. I wonder how the employers of the anti union bloggers feel about the productivity of their bloggers….er…workers today!?
retired early
February 21st, 2011
4:38 pm
Dan
Georgia state employees contribute 8% of their salary to their pension fund.
In 1982, in lieu of a large raise, the legislature picked up the employee part of their retirement contribution. This does not get recognized by the public…but nevertheless, it is our money being paid.
Not So Casual Observer
February 21st, 2011
4:41 pm
This disagreement centers not on pay but on unions and unions long ago outlived their reason to exist. The sweatshops of the 1920’s are gone in the US and the more highly educated and responsible citizens of 2011 will never allow them to return.
The unions have destroyed the American automobile industry with their greed and demands for higher and higher pay for workers in generally unskilled positions. I personally will never again purchase a GM or Chrysler product and that is no big deal you union supporters will argue. But there are more than just this one who feels the same way.
PRINCESS PELOSI DECLARED, “Elections have consequences” when arguing for the healthcare abomination. Now the Democrats do not like the consequences and are attempting contravene the process. What COWARDS!
The Daily Kos proudly claims there will be 35 or more of these demonstrations across the nation this week – all organized by the SEIU. I believe Wednesday at 4pm at the State Capitol is the time for the Atlanta riot (uh, meeting). Follow this link for the local commie convention in your area:
http://action.seiu.org/page/s/solidarityaction?source=kos
The view of the educated and righteous of a union as a bunch of thugs will not be diminished by these events or of those now occurring in Wisconsin.
joe
February 21st, 2011
4:42 pm
Seems to me, not as much about budget, but more of the Gov keeping his promise to the residents of WI who elected him, based on his pledges to nip taxpayer’s bankrolling the union’s benefits and pension. The Wi residents are tired of funding six figure salaries for union members who pay next to nothing for their benefits and pensions…it’s all on the taxpayer dime…or c-note in this case. They, the voters, said enough is enough and I agree with them 100%.
Dan
February 21st, 2011
4:43 pm
Retired early, thats good many private sector people do as well, not being contentious, just asking, what do you get for that 8%, is it in an IRA?, is it in a 401K, or is it going to fund a pre-set guaranteed amount as an example 75% of your last 5 years salary or something of that nature, or do you simply get back what you put it plus investment earnings
carlosgvv
February 21st, 2011
4:45 pm
“pushing elected officials to bend to their wishes”
Gov. Scott Walker is doing everything in his power to force State employees to bend to Republican wishes even though they are clearly demonstrating they have no intention of doing so. So, whose standing up for democracy is really ringing hollow?
John
February 21st, 2011
4:46 pm
Police and fire unions are exempt from this law for one reason…those unions supported and financially contributed to the Republicans in the last election.
Not So Casual Observer
February 21st, 2011
4:47 pm
Trusslady @ 4:18pm,
My family is from the Midwest where the people tend to take more responsibility for their success and well-being than those in the rust belt and the South.
So am I jealous? No, I simply look upon union members as those who are not self-starters, who are unable to face an employer on their own and are part of the nanny state looking for someone to take care of them – regardless of their level of education. In short, “Those who can – DO” and “those who can’t – become union members”.
Joe the Plutocrat
February 21st, 2011
4:48 pm
oh now, the plutocracy card… in all seriousness, I would not go so far as to say “teachers and burecrats” are plutocrats, but the unions which represent them most certainly are. to suggest the rank and file of any public sector union wears the plutocrat tag would be to suggest enlisted solider, sailors, airmen and Marines are part of the plutocracy as well. as I noted on JB’s blog, corruption is corruption, and it is the only truly bipartisan aspect of government from local thru state, thru federal levels. of course this is about the “budget” but the idea that Wisconsin’s problems are the result of, or will be resolved via AFSCME or the teachers’ union is more political than financial. GOP politicians “blaming” the public employee unions (save police and fire) is like blaming Bush for invading Afghanstan, but believing Obama’s AfPak “surge” will actually “end” the war. when a person is robbed at gunpoint, or raped, the ethnicity of the perp has no bearing on the crime or the punishment.
retired early
February 21st, 2011
4:50 pm
Dan
State pension for those hired after 1982 are 60% of average salary after 30 years service.
You can retire @ 60 years old and get approx 2% of salary for each year of service. You must have at least 10 years service to qualify.
Not So Casual Observer
February 21st, 2011
4:52 pm
Government pay, at all levels, should be cut 20% and the pension plans eliminated. Put them all into the Social Security system and that solves two problems with one sensible act.
Dan
February 21st, 2011
4:52 pm
See the thing you don’t get real american is, the tea party protests to keep the government from taking more of every citizens money, in WI a small segment of people are protesting for the government to continue to take more of other peoples money. The funny part is how inane the lefts argument is on this.
retired early
February 21st, 2011
4:54 pm
Dan
We have a deferred compensation plan…but the state does not provide matching funds.
BTW, new hires, those hired beginning in Jan 2009 have 1/2 pensions and 1/2 401K plans only.
real john
February 21st, 2011
4:56 pm
1,128,159 Wisconsin residents voted for Walker campaigning on this exact promise. This is far more than the protestors? What part of a Democratic society do the Democrats not understand??
Mr_B
February 21st, 2011
4:56 pm
Not So @4:42
The sweatshops, child labor, let the workers be damned safety concern of the 20’s don’t exist today because the unions took on management and won. Absent the vi\galance of the unions and others, they could be back in a heartbeat. Who’s beating the drum for open agricultural immigration now. It isn’t the unions.
Dan
February 21st, 2011
4:59 pm
Retired early, still not a bad deal, so your 8% is only partially funding that plan. Though I thought it might be a higher % after 30yrs
I suspect different jobs have different numbers. Don’t get me wrong is not jealousy as some say, my father was a NYC cop for 30 years and retired at approx 75% of last 5 yrs salary. So he traded many years of ekeing by (with 6 kids) for a comfortable retirement at the age of 56. not saying he doesn’t deserve it, just saying it’s not a bad gig if you can get it. I’ve worked 30yrs at 3 diff jobs and if I could retire now at 75% I would jump in a second, admittedly not sure about 60%, although the 60% number would be a fine place to start with other savings. Again its not all roses but far better than most, that is why people don’t like to hear the griping
Mr_B
February 21st, 2011
4:59 pm
Continued: Ford and GM ran themselves into the ground by building gas-guzzling poor quality vehicles that nobody wanted to buy. Those vehicles were not designed or marketed by the UAW. Those guys just put together whatever the brass says to make.
JF McNamara
February 21st, 2011
5:05 pm
Kyle wrote:
“JF: Teachers don’t have collective bargaining in Georgia and, as the stats I cited at 2:54 indicate, they seem to be doing OK compared to all other workers and compared to other teachers around the country.”
Are they doing that way because other teachers around the country have collective bargaining? What others get influences what you get. For instance, if the union at my company negotiates a benefit, management will automatically get it because they don’t want management to be disadvantaged. The benefits that people in States with CB affects what our teachers have because we can’t fall too far behind nationally in teacher performance and pay scale.
If there are no unions nationally, then that changes things completely. Now they have no platform to gain benefits, likely a lower benchmark, and are totally at the mercy of whatever government is in office. No one should be at the complete mercy of their boss without any options. They can’t really switch companies, so teachers don’t really have portability.
Its a bad deal to have no resource for power AND no portability.
Dan
February 21st, 2011
5:08 pm
That is a stretch and a half Mr B, first of all Ford is doing fine, although now they have to compete with government motors. But both built exactly what the market demanded although that is subjective, what is not subjective is they had to do it with 30-50% more labor cost then there foreign competitors. That is just a fact, and that makes it difficult to compete
Kyle Wingfield
February 21st, 2011
5:10 pm
Just a reminder, since it’s been a while, that all variations of “tea bag” wrt tea partyers are not allowed on ajc.com blogs. If you’ve had a post stuck in moderation or taken down, and you used one of those terms, that’s why.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Credible, Compelling, Complete....Bwahahahaha, just sayin...
February 21st, 2011
5:10 pm
Kyle- Just one slight correction, the Autoworkers is a government union now.
Remember?
James West
February 21st, 2011
5:10 pm
Joe@4:42: “Seems to me, not as much about budget, but more of the Gov keeping his promise to the residents of WI who elected him,…”
Minority Republicans and Tea Partiers didn’t seem to care much about allowing President Obama and Democratic majorities to keep the promises of the people who elected them. Killing the public option, cap-and-trade, the closing of Guantanamo, blocking them from passing a budget for the current fiscal year, among other things.
You can’t say that elections matter when you like the outcome in one instance, while also saying that elections don’t when you don’t like the outcome in another. Somebody might accuse you of hypocrisy.
That said, I’m glad that the Wisconsin 14 are extending the debate so that Walker can’t rush this legislation through in the dark of night, but at some point, Joe is right…elections should matter.
retired early
February 21st, 2011
5:10 pm
Dan
When combined with SS the 60% is comfortable. I have no complaints I just don’t plan on much “world travel”.
Law enforcement can retire @ 55 as you mentioned about your father. They all receive additional pensions from a separate “police officer’s fund”. That’s a good deal better than ours.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Credible, Compelling, Complete....Bwahahahaha, just sayin...
February 21st, 2011
5:28 pm
The fact that a president would use his own campaign foot soldiers to back public employees against their elected state government shows how distorted his priorities have become. Instead of confronting unions, as President Ronald Reagan did with the air traffic controllers in 1981 when he fired more than 11,000 of them, Obama is facilitating them.
And hence our real problem – no leadership.
We do have a class warfare klown, however.
Committee of Public Safety
February 21st, 2011
5:34 pm
Dan: See the thing you don’t get real american is, the tea party protests to keep the government from taking more of every citizens money, in WI a small segment of people are protesting for the government to continue to take more of other peoples money.
Wrong. The ’small segment’ represents a broad swatch of workers doing work that is essential to the daily life of the country, work that benefits the public as a whole.
Where do you get the idea that they are “taking other people’s money”? They do nothing of the sort. It’s part of a pact between the government and the public and it’s money that’s paid to support services that benefit all. .
Tweets that mention Wisconsin protests not about budget? In a way, yes | Kyle Wingfield -- Topsy.com
February 21st, 2011
6:26 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Cary D Conover, Founder Fire, Daniel Arlt, Daniel Arlt, caydance clearwater and others. caydance clearwater said: Wisconsin protests not about budget? In a way, yes: As James Sherk of the Heritage Foundation put it in a commen… http://bit.ly/fLscz8 [...]
Jim Fleischmann
February 21st, 2011
6:47 pm
People who speak of subverting democracy are generally missing the mark. Here in Wisconsin our civil service workers and teachers have mostly had union protection for over five decades. The governor and a boat load of assembly and senate candidates went on the campaign trail with valuable initiatives of cutting the budget and reducing the deficit (which we actually didn’t have one here in Wisconsin until the governor started agreeing to new tax cuts for small business, and other expenditures). NOT ONE of these individuals EVER spoke a word about eliminating the long-established unions or eliminating comprehensive bargaining powers. Yet now this has been the centerpiece for negotiations. Even though the unions are indicating they WILL agree to ALL of the budget cutting insurance and retirement plan items in the budget bill (never discussed with unions but slammed into the budget bill) the Senate and Governor are not satisfied – they have to eliminate bargaining capacity. Since the Republicans now hold the assembly, senate, and governor seat and all are banding together they aparently can make all these moves. I don’t see this as part of our “democracy” since the new legislators have moved well beyond what was ever claimed during the campaign. This IS NOT a democracy.
The agreements made and which will be agreed to are MAJOR and really amount to a reduction in the overall state employee pay/benefit package – these are real people who depend on the state package for an honest living. An example is my sister-in-law, a 30-year secretary with the state. She has been working part-time (30+ hours/wk). Her salary roughly $40,000 per year (this is very aproximate), her husband is a disabled roofer (a fall from a roof destroyed his back). So now she will lose anothe 12% of her pay. She just got back from a series of chemotherapy treatments for breast cancer and is in a tough spot for shopping for new jobs. Does she need union protection from this new administration – I think so – they are ruthless and just starting their efforts. My point – we can jaw philosophic all we want but real people are being affected. I am a manager/owner of a small business. I can see and empathise with real people like my sister-in-law.
Jim Fleischmann
supportteachers
February 21st, 2011
7:30 pm
@ Jim: Great point. This is not about private vs. public sector or union vs.non-union states. They are using these issues to try to divide and exploit the middle class. This is about taking from the poor and middle class to give tax cuts to big business and the rich who are funding their campaigns.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: Credible, Compelling, Complete....Bwahahahaha, just sayin...
February 21st, 2011
8:02 pm
President Obama, with more time on his hands than you’d imagine, what with the Middle East popping rivets and the country lurching toward bankruptcy, has chosen to insert himself into the Wisconsin budget debate on the side of the local public employee unions.
Leaderless, just sayin…
GDRLA
February 21st, 2011
8:26 pm
As a State of GA employee I do not belong to a union. However, the state of GA vested me in my retirement plan after 10 years of service – if GA wants to change my CONTRACT then they should negotiate with me & my peers. I did my part (contrary to popular belief some Government employees do work) and part of that was to work for less pay BUT with better benefits and a retirement plan. AFTER the pension is vested is NOT the time to be changing it without an intense discussion involving ME! (& I do support that sometimes benefits are overly generous but that’s not my fault, it’s the fault of prior political processes that gave away the golden egg, goose, and all).
I heared he was an Ayrab
February 21st, 2011
8:30 pm
Rank bollocks as usual from Kyle Wankfield. Teachers don’t make that much compared to others.
While the attention is focused on the standoff, Governor Wanker is trying a sneak attack by pushing a bill that actually allows the governor to sell state-owned power plants in Wisconsin on a no-bid basis to any buyer and without regulatory scrutiny. The governor gets to decide. Even Ghaddafi wouldn’t attempt to do this!!
Dan
February 21st, 2011
8:32 pm
Committee of Public Safety, wrong the whole problem is much of that work arguably most of that work is not essential therein lies the problem, and yes they are in fact taking that money, not for essential needs but for politically expedient ends. What I find so baffling is that when selfishness and greed, normal human foibles, are perpetuated by politicians and unions who claim to be serving a greater good, they are given a pass, yet when business, who readily admit to wanting to make money do it they are portrayed as evil, not sure if it is naivete or ignorance. The fact is government accounting policies in general, make Madoff look like a kid running a lemonade stand with artificle lemon flavor
marty
February 21st, 2011
9:13 pm
Five states have made collective bargaining by educators illegal. Their rank in ACT/SAT scores:
South Carolina 50th
North Carolina 49th
Georgia 48th
Texas 47th
Virginia 44th
Wisconsin (on the other hand) 2nd
Maybe they don’t want to join the race to the bottom. Any comment Kyle?
Wiscons
Committee of Public Safety
February 21st, 2011
10:34 pm
Dan: “What I find so baffling is that when selfishness and greed, normal human foibles, are perpetuated by politicians and unions who claim to be serving a greater good, they are given a pass, yet when business, who readily admit to wanting to make money do it they are portrayed as evil, not sure if it is naivete or ignorance”
There’s only one form of greed in the country today and it is represented by the financier class.
Dan, do you have any inkling just how much money the top hedge fund managers earn each year? Could you venture a guess? Try one billions – that’s with a b – dollars a year. I don’t know if you’re good with figures but do you have any idea how much money that is? Does it offend you a little, Dan? Maybe just a teeny bit? No?
Let me break it down like this: these mega-earners (assuming ‘earn’ is even the right word) take advantage of tax loopholes, fiercely protected by Republicans, which allow them to define this as capitals gains, which are taxed at 15%. Now if they were to be taxed at the ‘normal’ rate – meaning a rate that’s similar to what you or I pay – that alone would generate enough revenue to pay salary and benefits for 300,000 teachers. That get your blood going, Dan? Maybe just a little. Oh I bet if you let yourself stop and think for just a minute, putting aside all your talking points Rush and Rupert Murdoch have instilled in you, you’ll have to admit that that gives you a little shudder somewhere deep down inside. Am I right, Dan? Are you human? I bet if you’re really honest with yourself, you’ll admit it to yourself and you’ll see that this is a sham and a fraud. And more importantly than that – it can’t go on. Things won’t go as far here as Egypt or the Bastille in 1789. It will be different here. But this will eventually get stopped – one way or another.
get out much?
February 21st, 2011
10:54 pm
Well for those of you who like to keep bringing up the private sector, don’t be surprised that the best and the brightest teachers start leaving. Just like they would in the private sector if you cut their salary benefits. I don’t know of anyone who went into teaching for the money but I know a lot who left teaching because of the money.
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2011
10:58 pm
Marty,
Nice try. The southern states of course are going to be much lower in sat scores than a state like Wisconsin due simply to demographics and not necessarily the teacher pay. If what you were saying had anything to do with teacher pay then the nation as a whole would be doing better since we are spending more money on education adjusted for inflation than we ever have.
Georgia is a high minority state and hence substantially lower SAT scores. Also, take a look at Wisconsin. Very low minority population and look who settled the state? A lot of Germans and culturally these people have always placed a high value on education- you have to look further than the pure numbers.
And no. Its not racist to say that a state’s SAT scores are going to be brought down a great deal by minority populations. Its not a secret. Its just a fact of life that minorities, African Americans in particular, score much lower in standardized testing.
Thulsa Doom
February 21st, 2011
11:01 pm
get out much,
My sister is a teacher. And she knows of some mighty incompetent teachers that are there because they lack the competence to do anything else. As the old saying goes those who can can. Those who can’t teach.
Committee of Public Safety
February 21st, 2011
11:44 pm
Thulsa Doom: “Also, take a look at Wisconsin. Very low minority population and look who settled the state? A lot of Germans and culturally these people have always placed a high value on education- you have to look further than the pure numbers.”
Germans also place a high value on social solidarity and unions. Coincidence?