Wisconsin protests: Obama goes too far by mobilizing opposition
There are many lessons to be learned from the protests and outright abdication of duty by public labor unions and Democrats (but I repeat myself) in Wisconsin. One of them is that there can no longer be any doubts that President Obama has radical ideas about the proper balance and relationship between the federal and state governments.
From the Washington Post:
President Obama thrust himself and his political operation this week into Wisconsin’s broiling budget battle, mobilizing opposition Thursday to a Republican bill that would curb public-worker benefits and planning similar protests in other state capitals.
Obama accused Scott Walker, the state’s new Republican governor, of unleashing an “assault” on unions in pushing emergency legislation that would change future collective-bargaining agreements that affect most public employees, including teachers.
The president’s political machine worked in close coordination Thursday with state and national union officials to get thousands of protesters to gather in Madison and to plan similar demonstrations in other state capitals.
Their efforts began to spread, as thousands of labor supporters turned out for a hearing in Columbus, Ohio, to protest a measure from Gov. John Kasich (R) that would cut collective-bargaining rights.
By the end of the day, Democratic Party officials were organizing additional demonstrations in Ohio and Indiana, where an effort is underway to trim benefits for public workers. Some union activists predicted similar protests in Missouri, New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
Let me make my position perfectly clear: The president of the United States has no business whatsoever interfering, especially by using his campaign apparatus, with a state government’s dealings with its employees.
No. Business. Whatsoever.
His eagerness to jump into the fray in Madison, like his ill-advised wading into the dispute over the arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates two summers ago, not only betrays his disturbing instinct to think nothing is beyond the bounds of his office. It actually demeans the office itself. As Matt Welch writes at Reason.com:
Just think — there once was a time (for more than a century, actually), when the president of the United States thought it too imperious to deliver the State of the Union via a speech to a joint session of Congress, since that would smack of telling a co-equal branch of government what to do. Now we have a president not just taking rhetorical sides in a state issue, but actively mobilizing his political organization to affect the outcome(s), even though (to my knowledge) nothing that Gov. [Scott] Walker or any other belated statehouse cost-cutter is doing has a damned thing to do with federal law.
This is not sending in the National Guard to enforce a federal court order to integrate the schools in Little Rock. Despite what you may have heard — from President Obama, for instance — Wisconsin’s governor is not “making it harder for public employees to collectively bargain generally.”
What the governor, newly elected Republican Scott Walker, wants is to sharply curb collective bargaining for benefits — which in that state, like many other jurisdictions, are unsustainably generous and threaten to sink the entire state’s finances — and require employees to contribute less than 6 percent of their salaries toward their pension plan and pay $1 for every $7 that the state pays for their health-insurance premiums.
The horror!
But even if Obama personally finds such a policy as horrific as Wisconsin’s revolting teachers (oops, teachers in revolt) do, the fact remains that it is not the president’s business.
If Obama or his attorney general thinks Wisconsin would be violating an aspect of federal law, then the Department of Justice could sue the state — but only after it acts. Instead, he and his political organization are trying to pre-empt an ostensibly lawful action by the state’s government.
Folks, in case it wasn’t clear before: There is nothing — nothing — that Obama considers outside the purview of the federal government. His meddling in Wisconsin is the logical conclusion of that ideology.
Speaking of which, Welch argues this is about much more than Obama alone:
We are witnessing the logical conclusion of the Democratic Party’s philosophy, and it is this: Your tax dollars exist to make public sector unions happy. When we run out of other people’s money to pay for those contracts and promises (most of which are negotiated outside of public view, often between union officials and the politicians that union officials helped elect), then we just need to raise taxes to cover a shortfall that is obviously Wall Street’s fault. Anyone who doesn’t agree is a bully, and might just bear an uncanny resemblance to Hitler.
The president’s heavy-handed involvement, along with House Republicans’ refusal to sign off on any new bailout of the states, means that this may very well be America’s biggest and most widespread political fight in 2011. It’s a cage match to determine first dibs on a shrinking pie. A clarifying moment.
Indeed.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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130 comments Add your comment
ATL Girl
February 18th, 2011
4:46 pm
The Wisconsin unions claim they’ve been making concessions for years. Wow, then they really were grossly overpaid and overcompensated, since they’re still not even close to the wages and benefits of the private sector. Let them protest. They may be loud, but they’re still wrong.
Le Bourgeois
February 18th, 2011
4:47 pm
Once a community organizer, always a community organizer. Obama should consider his plate very full right now what with the federal budget deficit/fiscal gap and the crazy state of world affairs. Once again, he proves to us that unions are his top priority.
Eric
February 18th, 2011
4:50 pm
You know you’re fringe when Obama looks ‘radical’.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
February 18th, 2011
4:54 pm
Allow me to provide an AJC translation service for you ate up liberals-
MADISON, Wis. — President Barack Obama put himself and his political operation into Wisconsin’s budget battle, mobilizing opposition Thursday to a Republican bill that would curb public-worker benefits. -Urinal
This is nothing more than a 2012 presidential kkkampaign ad and the AJC knows it. Comfort the mouthbreathers with glorious songs and battle cries reminiscent of the finest North Korean tribute to Dear Leader. obozo put forth the valiant fight at the Repug ramparts but the “people” still only have potatoes to eat and dung to burn for warmth. You are blessed to have thee obozo as your fearless advocate, “organizing” your community, this should be enough to sustain you and your loved ones, all flaming stupid defeats aside. Shut up and be happy, obozo is on it.
Meanwhile, you Union hacks in Wisconsin, pop open your wallets and get ready to pay, because equality has come to your workplace and your days of robbing the US Treasury blind are……..ovah.
Just sayin…
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
February 18th, 2011
5:07 pm
If you ever had any doubts about which political party is in charge of teaching your children, and why they are so ignorant, Wisconsin has removed all the guesswork, just sayin…
Manchurian-Kenyan Candidate
February 18th, 2011
5:36 pm
I guess Obama’s line: “Elections have consequences” only applies when liberals win, huh?
The Original Get Real
February 18th, 2011
6:04 pm
What we are seeing is a little piece of Greece when public sector union employees are being forced off of the government narcotic. All they are being asked to do is contribute a little more or something at all to their retirement and healthcare like the rest of us private sector workers.
This display and the democratic senators leaving the state so a vote cannot be taken is great theater and is going to completely blow up in the face of all unions and democrats. Having Obama weigh in on the issue (déjà vu) when he doesn’t even know the facts is icing on the cake…
fair and imbalanced
February 18th, 2011
6:10 pm
He also started a war using lies for a justification, costing thousands of American lives and trillions of dollars. Oh wait…
Kyle, did Bush ever “cross the line”? How much blood did you give when you took the Party oath?
Max
February 18th, 2011
6:14 pm
Kyle, you really need to cut back on your hysteria, young man.
Presidents ALWAYS use their bully-pulpit to help citizen groups they support. Jiminy Crickets, did you get the vapors when previous Presidents (Dem and GOP) supported one group or another?
No, of course not.
What is happening in Wisconsin is a out-of-control GOP Governor trying to use dubious law to break unions that have general public support. More specifically the Governor is going after the teachers union (who don’t get paid by the state so the “reduce the state deficit” claim is pure bovine excrement) because they opposed him during the election and exempting fire/police/state trooper unions because they supported him.
This what you’re backing, young Mister?
Really?
The Original Get Real
February 18th, 2011
6:15 pm
fair and imbalanced
Good job staying on topic…NOT
John
February 18th, 2011
6:15 pm
Has anyone noticed the bill in Wisconson bill exempts those unions who supported Republicans in the last election (police, fire, etc.) and only attacks those that supported Democrats.
ByteMe
February 18th, 2011
6:16 pm
Ah, another rant from the party of “we don’t care about workers”.
Perhaps “radical” just means mainstream when you’re really a radical yourself. Look at this map
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/02/look_at_the_map.php#more?ref=fpblg
and then tell me how out of the mainstream having union negotiating rights is compared to not having them.
Burman Fisher
February 18th, 2011
6:19 pm
Democrats and unions made a mistake when Lane Kirkland, then head of the AFL-CIO, allowed Reagan to fire the air traffic controllers in the 1981 without staging a major “solidarity” type of national walkout of all union members. This situation in Wisconsin ought to be a rallying cry for all union members to get ready to respond by shutting down the entire country for twenty days as a show that collective bargaining is not to be fooled with by the radical Republicans. If union members “blink” on this or any other state that attempts to change collective bargaining rights, then they will be on the way out the door as ineffective in support of workers’ rights. Selah!
John
February 18th, 2011
6:22 pm
Kyle, did you feel the same way when President Bush publicly talked about and supported a Constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As we both know, the president has no roll in the amendment process…as you stated with Obama, Bush has No. Business. Whatsoever injecting himself into it.
fair and imbalanced
February 18th, 2011
6:22 pm
To Original get Real: Ditto
John
February 18th, 2011
6:26 pm
Wake up people…do you think Rebublicans care about the working class. Repbulicans ran on a jobs platform but now that the control the house they have not produced one jobs bill. Just look at John Boehner’s words about people loosing thier jobs…”so be it”.
Evelyn
February 18th, 2011
6:26 pm
President Obama did not “thrust himself” into the controversy, as the Washington Post reported, he merely answered the questions of a reporter. To report otherwise was intellectually dishonest. Shame on you for re-publishing the dishonest statement. I use to think highly of the AJC, but for the last couple of years partisanship has risen above truth.
Reality Check
February 18th, 2011
6:31 pm
Great article Kyle!
Folks this is the beginning of the end for the mob rule mentality of the union goons, their position is not to protect the well being of their constitutes but to move political opinion! Their place and time came a long wind ago and know they are desperately grasping at the fading light of existance.
President (empty suit) Yo Yo is know using the position of President along with his thugs to position pressure on the elected Republican caucus in WI, WTF? But he demands that corporate America put a cap on executive pay at private companies? Hey jackass, you cannot have it both ways!
This President along with the socialist left are litteraly trying everything to destroy our constitution, Here’s the good news, they are failing and will fail because the American people are awaking to the foul stence that is the democratic (sociolist) party!
Obama you will go down in history as the single worst president ever!
Filster
February 18th, 2011
6:33 pm
Now would be a good time for unions to be dissolved. Givent ehir track record of securing wages and benefits for their members far in excess of that acquired by the general public, all I can say is fire em all, the heck with collective bargaining, etc. Hey, there are tons of folks out there without jobs who would gladly work for what the unins reject. Unions collect unemployment goodies for their members. Fire em all and let the unions pay em.
YALL
February 18th, 2011
6:44 pm
“Obama you will go down in history as the single worst president ever!”
Actually that title belongs to George W. Bush. Let me guess, you’re one of those people who still have their Bush/Cheney’04 bumper sticker on their car don’t you?
CJ
February 18th, 2011
6:45 pm
Despite the Washington Post’s assertion to the contrary, the Democratic Party isn’t Obama’s “political machine” or his “campaign apparatus”. A political party belongs to its contributors, members, registered voters, and all who identify with it. There’s nothing remotely unusual about the Democratic Party getting involved in a dispute between, you know, Republicans and Democrats to defend their values and those of their constituents.
And It’s not as though Democrats have wealthy heirs/corporations like the Koch bothers/Koch Industries to finance their every move (note that the Koch brothers, using their inherited wealth, are having their front organizations, such as “Americans for Prosperity,” bus in counter-protesters to support Tea Party Republican Walker).
There also appears to be double standard here. Why, for example, can a Republican Congress and a Republican President use their powers in elected office to get involved in a state matter in Florida, as they did in the Terri Shaivo case, but the Democratic Party can’t fight back in Wisconsin without using the powers of elected office? Were the people who are outraged today, outraged then?
And why can a Republican Speaker of the House from Ohio speak out in support of Governor Walker’s position, as he has, but President Obama can’t speak out in opposition of it?
These different standards lead me to believe that all this (faux?) outrage over Obama and the Democratic Party is another case of misdirection.
flagger
February 18th, 2011
6:45 pm
Why don’t we all just work for the government at some level, that way we will be taken care of from the cradle to the grave and if we want something, why we can just tax ourselves and presto..oops there it is. Otherwise its the dumb idiots out there working for da man or themselves that have to keep all the
fat lazy bums that have been suckling the govment teat for years in the manor they are accustom.
We all know they can make a lot more in the private sector and how much they have given up in salary over the years so they could have good benefits…. BULL CRAP….
B
February 18th, 2011
6:46 pm
I would never even consider joining a union. The thought is repulsive to me. Why would anyone give up his/her independence and be subject to some mob moss who thinks he has the right to tell me what to do! Thank God for Republicans who are willing to fight the necessary battles! Get government goons out of our lives. The very idea that government anything and their union peons can do (anything efficiently or effectively is absurd. Nothing in the history of the world has done more to institutionalize mediocrity than unions! Good grief, what fools these mortal (democrats) be!
Martin Williams
February 18th, 2011
6:57 pm
Kyle, you should stop writing period as you truly lack common sense.
Reality Check
February 18th, 2011
7:01 pm
YALL.
So you can read, excellent! Know read this again “OBAMA YOU WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS THE SINGLE WORST PRESIDEND EVER!
Why do you liberals always bring up Bush? What is your fascination with him? Bush lied, Bush is a war monger the list goes on and on like a broken record. I just laugh at you libs and your disease I call liberalism, I will pray for you YALL while I’m in church Sunday morning!
Oh bye he way YALL, I don’t have a Bush/Cheney 04 bumper sticker on my car and if I did I’d put a sticker on my car that read “HEY YALL YALL CAN FINALLY READ” I
By the way YALL I’m an Independent!
Mr Right
February 18th, 2011
7:06 pm
YALL
February 18th, 2011
6:44 pm
DON’T BE SO STUPID!
Linda
February 18th, 2011
7:06 pm
Evelyn@6:26, Did O merely grant a one-on-one interview & answer the questions of a Wisconsin reporter or did he summon that reporter to the White House to “thrust himself” into the controversy? Get your facts straight, Maam.
artb
February 18th, 2011
7:08 pm
President Obama did not thrust himself into the Wisconsin debate. He was asked about it and gave his opinions. Presidents are allowed to weigh in on important issues you know, even black presidents.
yuzeyurbrain
February 18th, 2011
7:09 pm
Kyle, don’t pxxs in my boot and tell me its raining. Are you deluded or just full of it?
Linda
February 18th, 2011
7:10 pm
YALL@6:44, Why do you think Bush was such a bad president?
LIBS SUCK
February 18th, 2011
7:14 pm
You leftist libs have absolutely NO idea about government authority. Obama is the BIGGEST mistake this country has ever made whiuch is fact and will be proved even to you idiot libs soon enough. We tried to tell you two and a half years ago this clown was a community activist at best but you would not listen. The bumber sticker I display is “Don’t blame me…I didn’t vote for Obama (sic)”
Linda
February 18th, 2011
7:15 pm
artb@7:08, Obama sending his Organizing for America, his personal arm, to Wis. isn’t “thrusting?” Calling a Wis. reporter to the White House for a one-on-one interview wasn’t “thrusting?”
LIBS SUCK
February 18th, 2011
7:18 pm
artb,
you have sunk back to the sixties by playing the race card. Shame on you. The fact is is that BO has gotten the benefit of the doubt MANY time because of his race.
Rafe Hollister
February 18th, 2011
7:20 pm
I will have to credit Charles Krauthamer with this one as I think he had a great point. It seeems that Mr. Hope and Change has turned into Mr Status Quo these days. Seems the young Republican governors and Representatives are stepping up to the plate and changing the budgetary system for the better. Nero Obama sits in the WH and fiddles, while the Republicans move to bring our financial house in order. The Dems have become the party of the Status Quo.
LIBS SUCK
February 18th, 2011
7:21 pm
The fact of the matter in Wisconsin is that the federal /union employees are paid their fat benefits by the hard working public sector. Have you seen the pesions paid to these people? If kings only had it so good!
LIBS SUCK
February 18th, 2011
7:23 pm
Rafe,
you are exactly right. BO is pissed that the GOP is the one to come up with solving these economic strifes and will squash opponents to his radical liberal agenda at any chance.
Toby
February 18th, 2011
7:24 pm
Georgia highschool grads in action, what a sight.
Rafe Hollister
February 18th, 2011
7:25 pm
All during the Porkulous bill and the Non Affordable Healthcare Rationing Act (aka, Obamacare) we heard the Dems tell the Republicans that we have the votes and do not care what you think or want. Now the Rep are in charge in Wisconsin and where are the Dems. They took their ball and went home, refusing to participate. Can you imagine the Obamamedia outrage had the Republicans walked out and refused to participate in the vote to approve Obamacare? Turnabout is so much fun.
LIBS SUCK
February 18th, 2011
7:25 pm
Of course, by my stating such makes me a racist in certain eyes…..;<
LIBS SUCK
February 18th, 2011
7:28 pm
I’m sure MSNBC and other liberal outlets will persuade the American people this is a Republican party, better yet GWB problem, that has led to Wisconsin’s demise. Chris Matthews is problably having an orgasm thinking about Obama’s response to the matter!
bigguy
February 18th, 2011
7:29 pm
I smell BO.
killerj
February 18th, 2011
7:32 pm
“Winds of change”,Time to pay the coffer……Go Tea Party.
Marcus
February 18th, 2011
7:33 pm
John at the 6:22 mark settles this discussion.
LIBS SUCK
February 18th, 2011
7:35 pm
Marcus and John,
Did you know that Bush has been out of office for 2 and half years? Quit blaming others, LOSERS!!
Atticus Finch
February 18th, 2011
7:37 pm
Kyle has “jumped the shark” with this one.
LIBS SUCK
February 18th, 2011
7:37 pm
The difference with Bush was exactly what John said….”CONSTITUTIONAL amendment” not state amendment. The President has ZERO right sticking is uninformed nose into state business!!!
Rafe Hollister
February 18th, 2011
7:40 pm
I encourage Nero and the Dems to get as involved as they can defending the Public Employees Union in Wisconsin. Kinda like a friend defending a wife beater while the battered wife stands in the background. It doesn’t generate a whole lot of support from anyone but wife beaters.
independent thinker
February 18th, 2011
7:47 pm
I am with you on this one Kyle. We know who Obama is counting on to fund his reelection expenses. Any public employee who thinks their allegiance to a union boss takes precedence over their duty to the public should be fired. Obama proved that the Democrats have deviated from their core principles and the greatest Democat to be president:
“… Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations … The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for … officials … to bind the employer … The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives …
“Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people … This obligation is paramount … A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent … to prevent or obstruct … Government … Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government … is unthinkable and intolerable.”
~ FDR letter to the president of the National Federation of Federal Employees in 1937
don
February 18th, 2011
8:03 pm
Wisconsin has a surplus when Walker took office. He cut taxes to create this situation. And you’re trashing unions?
get out much?
February 18th, 2011
8:03 pm
Just another in a long list of reasons why no one in their right mind should consider teaching as a profession and one more reason for those already in it, to leave. Interesting that the Governor targeted the female dominated profession but left the male dominated ones alone.
Ted Striker
February 18th, 2011
8:04 pm
Long winded and disjointed. Really kills a column.
Linda
February 18th, 2011
8:07 pm
Wisconsin got religion or somptin (Southern for something) in the 11/10 elections.
They voted out Sen. Feingold who had been in the US Senate since ‘93 for a businessman who had no prior political experience.
They elected a gov. who had previously been the 1st Republican voted in as the chief executive of Wis. Co. in nearly a century (not decade, a century), who trimmed the co. employee rolls.
They voted in both a Rep. state Senate & House.
US Rep. Paul Ryan, Wis., became the majority head of the House Ways & Means Com.
The new head of the RNC, Reince Priebus, is from Wis.
Wisconsin voters spoke. They said, “We, the People.” They will not be deterred by mobs.
Uhoh
February 18th, 2011
8:13 pm
Hope that guvna has the stones to look Obie in the eye and say “I won’” like he said to the Reps. Let the schools stay closed until the real citizens have had enough of the union BS.
Rafe Hollister
February 18th, 2011
8:15 pm
On, Wisconsin!
RETNAV
February 18th, 2011
8:19 pm
Max your are working with blinders on. First of all that Wisconson Govenor was voted in because the people wanted the state to get a hold of it’s run away budget. He said what he was going to do during the campaign, and it should not be a surprise. The majority of the people of the state agreed and voted him in. I am sorry but it is time to bust these government unions that don’t bring any profits to the state. Us taxpayers are tired of flipping the bill for sorry results. Just look at our educational system. I know a lot of good teachers who care and just shake thier heads at some of the sorry ones who get to keep thier jobs not because of performance but tinier. That is where unions really suck. Think about it these teachers hold the future of this country in thier hands. If they stink at thier job then our children suffer which in turn hurts our future as a country. But since they are union we can’t do a darn thing the sorry ones keep thier jobs and no one can do anything about it because they are protected..
James West
February 18th, 2011
8:22 pm
This is a bogus complaint. National Republicans, including Republican presidents, have gotten tangled up in state politics without the whining from Tea Party types. Remember Congressman Delay pulling strings to make redistricting happen in Texas just two years after the state map had last been redrawn? Remember Terri Schiavo? So it’s okay if you’re a Republican?
Lots of elected Republicans at the national level have spoken out in support for the Wisconsin union-busting law, including John Boehner. If Boehner can speak out, then Obama can too.
Shouldn’t those complaining about Obama be just as upset about corporate money funding the Governor of Wisconsin’s election or funding anti-union protestors in Wisconsin (Koch Industries, anyone?). This article implies that it’s okay if corporate money is used by Republicans for political purposes, but the Democratic Party can’t be used by Democrats for political purposes.
Pointing the finger at Obama and the national Democrats is a classic case of that old magician’s trick called misdirection. They want you to look in one direction, so you don’t get the facts about the issue at hand.
Here are some facts about the issue at hand. The last Democratic governor and Democratic state legislature in Wisconsin to made some politically difficult decision to balance Wisconsin’s budget. As a result, the corporate-financed Republican inherited a balanced budget. Then, he immediately called a special session to pass tax cuts for his corporate benefactors. Those tax cuts caused a deficit. Now that same Republican governor blaming teachers and other public workers for the budget deficit that he created with his tax breaks.
But don’t be mad about that. Instead, you should be mad at Obama for giving an honest answer to a question from the press about what’s going on in Wisconsin.
OldTimer
February 18th, 2011
8:27 pm
How do you starve a Democrat?
Hide his food stamps underneath his work boots.
Richard
February 18th, 2011
8:28 pm
So it’s good government policy to dictate to all your employees that essentially they have no bargaining rights but the one right to bargain individually if they want to and only at an increase
no higher than the rate of inflation otherwise if they want more it has to go to a referendum vote.
And of course they cannot bargain for pension or welfare benefits and they cannot use the unions
to help negotiate for those things only wage increases. They must decide yearly if they want to
keep the union around to help them basically with no rights at all and they are not obligated to pay
union dues. That ought to put the teachers on par with the rest of the teachers in Florida and them
other right-to-work states. Yessem boss!!! How else can we be goooood Republicans??? What
a bunch of *&^%!! morons.
Antonia Godfrey
February 18th, 2011
8:30 pm
I am from West Virginia and Unions saved alot of lives in the coal mines and also gave them fair pay. This isFOR THE PEOPLE at it finest. Thanks President Obama for showing you care. We elected you and this is what we expected.
Linda
February 18th, 2011
8:32 pm
John@6:22& Marcus@7:33, The conservatives definition of marriage is very simple: between one consenting adult male & one consenting adult woman, unrelated.
Is the liberals’ definition of marriage: between or among unlimited numbers of men, women, children &/or animals, both alive & deceased, consenting & non-consenting? What is your definition? You couldn’t possibly exclude polygamy, etc. over gay rights, could you?
OldTimer
February 18th, 2011
8:34 pm
How do you starve a Republican?
It’s never happened.
Richard
February 18th, 2011
8:36 pm
How do you starve an old timer?? Take away his social security fool!!
JEM
February 18th, 2011
8:37 pm
Obama needs to let this one go (although he can’t afford to). He’s definitely overstepping his boundaries.
But Republican’s need to stop whining about all the Hitler references. Don’t be hypocrites, folks.
OldTimer
February 18th, 2011
8:38 pm
I agree with you Richard, Social Security has to go.
Richard
February 18th, 2011
8:40 pm
Most tea party members draw the line at their social security. That’s next on the platter believe me.
JEM
February 18th, 2011
8:41 pm
And stop the whole “Why are you bringing up Bush/He’s not the president anymore/Stop living in the past!” nonsense. Most of you can’t stop bringing up how horrible Carter and Clinton were. And I’m sure as soon as a Republican president is back in office, the Obama bashing/blame game will continue for many a years to come.
bigguy
February 18th, 2011
8:47 pm
@JEM, I think the Obama bashing will continue for centuries. There will be countless books on how such an unqualified person could be elected POTUS.
JEM
February 18th, 2011
8:50 pm
No argument here, bigguy. Let’s hope the next one will be better than the last two.
Here’s to Ron Paul representing the Libertarian Party in 2012!!!
bigguy
February 18th, 2011
8:52 pm
@JEM, I hope Ron Paul will not be Ross Perot part II.
JEM
February 18th, 2011
8:57 pm
He probably will, cause Republicans are going to shoot themselves in the foot an pick Palin to represent their party. Hopefully they won’t but they probably will.
What’s the old adage? “Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line”? The reverse may happen next year.
Stephenson Billings
February 18th, 2011
8:58 pm
Fighting for the “common worker” huh?
REPORT: Average city teacher compensation tops $100,000…
Laurie
February 18th, 2011
8:59 pm
As a person who has worked at facilities where unionized labor exists, I would like to remind everyone here that unions have been the most beneficial and powerful tool employees have to ensure the safety of their workplace, and reasonable work conditions. I agree that some negotiated benefits have gotten out of hand. But it takes both sides to sign a contract. If state governments are allowed to limit collective bargaining, how long do you think it will be before the private sector starts lobbying for the same? It’s a slippery slope we find ourseleves on. This type of legislation limits freedom we Americans hold so dear. Why would you want to give up your right to use strength in numbers to hold an employer accountable?
Stephenson Billings
February 18th, 2011
9:02 pm
Guess they didn’t get the “civility memo” (or maybe it only applies to the Tea Party?)
“There is fear for Scott Walker’s safety but also for that of the Republican legislators as well,” said Jefferson. “We’re very concerned when we see signs out there with crosshairs over Scott Walker’s photo, when we see the disgusting comparisons to Hitler. Right now there is a sign hanging in the Senate wing of the Capitol with all of the photos of the entire Senate Republican Caucus and it says ‘Republican Senators Want to Take Your Rights. Don’t Continue to Let Them Walk Through the People’s House Unnoticed.’”
Enquiring Mind
February 18th, 2011
9:02 pm
Not everyone that works in a public job makes any money. I would have made more in the private sector that working for the local board of ed (not a teacher), but felt I was giving back. Now everyone acts like I’m overpaid and lazy. Due to hiring freezes I inherited another whole job of duties for much less money. Nobody getting fat here!
But, come on people–you are falling in line just like they want you to. If they keep the working class fighting against each other, you won’t notice who really is screwing you over.
It surprises me that so many people on here are dogging unions–in a non-union state! Georgia used to have mills, lots of mills. Maybe if these mill workers had a union they wouldn’t be dying of bone cancer from asbestos exposure, or not have a pension despite working 40 years in the mill. Maybe they could have kept the mill here in Georgia rather than offshoring the jobs. Go rent Norma Rae–you’ll like it, you’ll really like it.
Stephenson Billings
February 18th, 2011
9:04 pm
Looks like they made it to the big time:
Jesse Jackson rallies protesters at Wis. Capitol
Linda
February 18th, 2011
9:04 pm
James West@8:22, How dare you call Tea Party types “whining” while the nation watches the unions protesting in Wisconsin.
This is not about Obama just speaking out. It is about his mobilizing what the NYT calls his “campaign apparatus,” Organizing for America,” & directing them to bring in thousands of protesters to Wisconsin & directing them to protest at the private homes of the governor & other legislators, where their families & children are, AND influencing teachers to call in sick, lie to the principals &/or administrators, break their contracts with the state & ignore both their moral & legal obligations to their students, causing mass school closings & the cancellation of hundreds of sporting events.
As far as tax cuts, Obama, in his budget, is imposing great tax hikes, not to balance the budget, but to spend them, at the same time, increasing the deficit/debt by $9 Trillion.
Stephenson Billings
February 18th, 2011
9:08 pm
Got to hand it to the union workers though. I wouldn’t have the guts to put my job on the line to keep the status quo, especially in this economy:
“Gov. Walker first introduced his “budget repair” bill a week ago, setting off the firestorm that has swept the Capitol. Besides limiting collective-bargaining rights for most workers—excepting police, firefighters and others involved in public safety—it would require government workers, who currently contribute little or nothing to their pensions, to contribute 5.8% of their pay to pensions, and pay at least 12.6% of health-care premiums, up from an average of 6%.
In exchange, Gov. Walker has pledged no layoffs or furloughs for the state’s 170,000 public employees. He has said 5,500 state jobs and 5,000 local jobs would be saved under his plan, which would save $30 million in the current budget and $300 million in the two-year budget that begins July 1. “
Linda
February 18th, 2011
9:39 pm
Is the fate of Wisconsin unions & those in other states (Pa, Ohio, Michigan, etc.) as a result of sex? That is, the result of no sex, that is, Viagra?
http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2011/02/18/in-midst-of-financial-crisis-wisconsin-union-sue-for-viagra/
Michele Velocve
February 18th, 2011
10:12 pm
This blog’s author, “Kyle” sure looks and sounds like a closet gay guy who protests too much. I bet if he’s married his wife is getting it elsewhere and has unlimited charge accounts to make up. Not that there’s anything wrong with it but so many of the right wing extremists preach the Republican “values” and secretly practice otherwise in private–until they get caught. You know, like whats-his-name, Larry Craig. And the list goes on when you add the likes of this “Kyle” person.
Be honest and get out.
independent thinker
February 18th, 2011
10:35 pm
Anyone ever wonder how much their local and state taxes could be reduced if those state workers did not have state funded pensions where they can retire at age 55 with most of their existing salary and then be able to go and get another public job elsewhere with even more pension benefits??. These union backed so called public servantse are fast being the upper class not the middle class.
Linda
February 18th, 2011
10:40 pm
Kyle, I’m totally offended with the remarks of Michele Velocve @ 10:12. I’m fed up with commenters like her who trash you. She has gone too far trashing you & your wife. Your associates would NEVER put up with this sort of verbal attack. I request that you remove this person/animal from your blog forever.
I would hit that button “report this comment,” especially since it is a Fri. night, but the one & only time I did that, Dec./09, when a commenter encouraged me to commit suicide, you banned from your blog & never answered my email.
Thank you for your consideration. Maybe someone else will “report this comment.”
Le Bourgeois
February 18th, 2011
10:42 pm
As a local government professional, I am proud to be in a state with little unionization. We have a hard enough time as is firing the incompetents we do employ. However, I’d like to make a few other comments.
First, many people mis-categorize local government employees in Georgia and other right-to-work states with those teat-sucking union employees in the Wisconsin and the like. Our wages are much lower and so too are your tax bills (believe it or not). Of course I’d like to make more money but unionization and subsequent massive employee cost increases is not fiscally feasible long term as we can see from WI.
Secondly, there should be no distinction between the perks, union or otherwise, given to “public safety” such as police, fire, etc. as in the Wisconsin bill. Many state and local governments already give better retirement benefits to them, which is understandable in that you don’t want a 70 year old firefighter. However, anything else such as exemptions to paying more for insurance, no pay cuts, etc. is easily abused by those in public safety as they always find a workaround to the problem in the name of saving the children and elderly. Government workers should equal government workers. If not, public safety costs will eat you up as they form a quasi-union.
My point here, be proud of your local and state employees (yes, including teachers) because most of us are NOT the unionized images you see on TV and hear about on talk radio. Most of us understand that unionization is not good for Georgia and that will at least help keep us all financially healthy in the long run and keep most of us employed in the process.
Now can we buy some alcohol on Sunday please?
-LB
James West
February 18th, 2011
10:44 pm
Kyle Wingfield said that Republican Scott Walker, wants is to sharply curb collective bargaining for BENEFITS because they threaten to sink the Wisconsin’s finances. Wingfield is either mistaken, or he is lying.
Walker’s proposal limits wage increases so they can never exceed a cap based on the consumer price index. So, if this proposal passes, workers can’t bargain for benefits AND they can’t bargain for higher inflation-adjusted wage increases.
Walker’s proposal also contain numerous provisions that have absolutely nothing to do with state finances. It changes the rules for union votes, union dues collections, and many other provisions specifically to make it very difficult for unions to survive.
About the so-called threat to Wisconsin’s finances, as I said earlier, Governor Walker inherited a balanced budget from the Democratic governor. Upon taking office, Walker’s first course of action was to cut corporate tax rates. That’s why Wisconsin has a deficit now. It has nothing to do unions, pensions, or the rest.
The bottom line is that the rich get richer and the middle class takes the hit…again.
Le Bourgeois
February 18th, 2011
11:00 pm
James West, but it does have something to do with unions and pensions. The unfunded pension liabilities increase dramatically each year and were obviously factored into some of the governor’s decision making in balancing the budget. Further, capping annual increases in wages only makes sense as the private sector cannot afford to carry these increases in perpetuity. Most folks haven’t seen a raise of CPI or greater in years now. Why should union employees be an exception?
As for cutting the corporate tax rate, it was a strategic maneuver to attract businesses in Illinois to relocate just north after they dramatically increased all taxes, corporate and otherwise. Also, state governments should not put too much emphasis on corporate tax revenue in their budgets.
Long term Wisconsinite and proud of it
February 18th, 2011
11:09 pm
You stupid bub! The approximation of Hitler is impersonated by Walker who threatens to sic our own national guard on us for expressing our opinion. This isn’t legislation long discussed and compromised. It’s jammed down the throats of the public with barely three days of public announcement supposedly in an emergency session, the emergency brought about by the Governor’s granting of 140 million dollars of tax credits to businesses eliminating a budget surplus. The collective bargaining rights do limit wage increases to inflation rates despite the fact that state employees surrendered 5-10% of their income last year through furloughs which will continue. The unions have offered to give the monetary concessions. This is about people and their basic freedoms which wealthy Americans are trying to steal from us. It is class warfare and our Hitler knows it. Learn something about what you’re talking about before you go spouting off. 40.000 people don’t assemble at their state capitol over nothing.
Linda
February 18th, 2011
11:14 pm
James West@10:44, How pompous of you to ignore my comment directed to you @ 9:04. Only a Dem. would not understand why a governor would cut corporate tax rates in a state. Only a Dem. would not understand that small businesses account for the vast majority of hiring & taxing them would stunt economic growth. Even JFK understood that principle. Write 4 more paragraphs to prove your point.
James West
February 19th, 2011
12:01 am
Bourgeois,
I’m not following your logic. If you’re unhappy about how non-union workers are paid, why is the answer to punish union workers? Instead, how about raising the bar for private/non-union employers? It might be helpful to know that wages and benefits negotiated by unions drive up wages and benefits for all because employers have to compete.
And if you don’t think unions should be able to bargain for something as fundamental as more purchasing power over time, then that’s one thing. But preventing them from doing so in the future has nothing to do with the financial hole that Walker created when he cut taxes for his corporate benefactors immediately after taking office.
Finally, the idea that destroying unions and slashing corporate tax rates will lead to more revenues hasn’t worked in Texas, a state facing a huge budget crisis. Internationally, it hasn’t worked in Ireland, which with all their austerity measures, has an economy that has been sinking for years now. Both used to be conservative darlings elevated as shining examples. Now, nobody speaks their names.
Tim
February 19th, 2011
12:11 am
I would have to agree with James. Why don’t we all pay for all pensions, retire at 55, drive up all wages.
Then we can figure out who is going to pay for all this. It will be a vicious elevation where the poor will be poorer and I will sit back with my comrades and drink the local vodka.
Get real James. We can not afford to pay for everyone.
Le Bourgeois
February 19th, 2011
8:23 am
Exactly Tim. So we have unions to drive up wages for everyone and create pensions everywhere that must compete with union pensions and then it is all supposed to be paid for how? As for the driving up wages in union states, sure, that has happened but look what has happened to the jobs over time. They have moved south leaving Cleveland, Detroit, Buffalo, Milwaukee, etc. to rust in the wake of their dear unionization schemes.
independent thinker
February 19th, 2011
9:01 am
Laurie at 8:59 said:
“”"As a person who has worked at facilities where unionized labor exists, I would like to remind everyone here that unions have been the most beneficial and powerful tool employees have to ensure the safety of their workplace, and reasonable work conditions. I agree that some negotiated benefits have gotten out of hand. But it takes both sides to sign a contract. If state governments are allowed to limit collective bargaining, how long do you think it will be before the private sector starts lobbying for the same? It’s a slippery slope we find ourseleves on. This type of legislation limits freedom we Americans hold so dear. Why would you want to give up your right to use strength in numbers to hold an employer accountable?”"”"
Do she realize that the “company” who is negotiating with public employees is the taxpayer?? and that the elected official conducting the alleged negotiations may owe their job to union bosses who paid for their election? Is she that naive that she does not see the difference with collective negotiations of a private work force?
Every one of those teachers who walked out with their students in Wisconsin should be replaced with other unemployed teachers who will gladly work with no golden parachute pensions.
BW
February 19th, 2011
10:12 am
So you’re going to try to tell us that Obama made the people of Wisconsin mobilize against a radical attempt to strip workers of their union’s rights? That thought is so partisan it’s ridiculous…more to the point it’s childish. The people are mobilizing due to a radical policy made possible by tax giveaways by a Republican administration. Wisconsin has a balanced budget this year and even if there were projected deficits on the horizon then there was another way to go about it. This is redistribution of wealth just the “conservative” way so it’s ok….you’re better than this Kyle
Left wing management
February 19th, 2011
10:17 am
Eric: “You know you’re fringe when Obama looks ‘radical’ ”
So true, that.
You know I have to laugh sometimes. What would these people like Wingfield really do if this president really were left-leaning and not the center-right president he clearly is. Would we see Wingfield ‘abdicate’ his duty and flee the offices of AJC for the hills of Tennessee?
Jenny
February 19th, 2011
10:57 am
It seems to me that the whole “union bargaining for benefits” problem we have all over the United States with everything from teachers to automobile workers to airline employees could have a huge part of the answer solved by a National Health Care system. That would totally take the insurance argument off the table! It seems that medical insurance has been the biggest problem for these bargaining institutions for a long time.
America a National Healthcare System (a REAL one) would solve alot of problems.
Jenny
February 19th, 2011
11:17 am
To Independent Thinker: A friend of mine had this comment after someone told her she was so smart, why was she wasting her time teaching, She could be making so much more money in the private sector. “When I became a teacher – I knew I would get a small salary that would keep me in the lower middle class (at best), I knew if my family relied solely on my salary things would be tough, and I knew I the job would at times be crazy stressful. That being said I also know, I am a good teacher. I love working with kids, and the kids I teach learn. So for my crazy hard work teaching our future, and the tough times my family has endured I figure a reliable health insurance and retirement was going to be my payoff in the end.” Those folks who went to the private sector and got all that money and spent it all on big houses, fancy cars, wild vacations, now don’t want to support the ones who sacrificed a little to teach their kids.
By the way… private school teachers are just as bad off as public school teachers – they don’t get paid as well and have the same problems with insurance and retirement.
So National, State and Local governments need to Man-up and do what’s right by the people who serve our society, all the tax breaks to the private sector just take away from the public service employees.
Left wing management
February 19th, 2011
12:03 pm
Well said, Jenny 11:17.
Unfortunately though, your anecdote is likely to fall on deaf ears here with our Kyle, who’s an apologist for the union-busters up in Wisconsin who are trying to give the coup de grace to unions in this country once and for all, wiping away decades of labor history in a single blow.
As the New Republic points out:
Contrary to Walker’s assertion, there is no direct correlation between public-sector collective bargaining and yawning state budget deficits. According to data gathered by the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, while Wisconsin projects a state budget deficit of 12.8 percent for FY 2012, North Carolina, which does not allow government workers to bargain, faces a significantly higher deficit: 20 percent. Ohio, whose Republican governor John Kasich has also made clear his desire to roll back collective bargaining, has a deficit that is only about half the size of non-union North Carolina’s. Clearly, then, state budget deficits we are now witnessing are not the product of collective bargaining …
Such facts apparently matter little to Walker, Kasich, and their ilk. … [who] are seeking to turn hurting private-sector workers against their supposedly “privileged” public-sector counterparts in a perverse new form of class warfare, the end results of which will only accelerate the downward pressure on incomes and benefits that has contributed to a new gilded age of wealth inequality in America.
Republican Haters
February 19th, 2011
12:15 pm
People with crappy working conditions or no job prospects are turning their anger & resentment against teachers. Attacking and vilifying teachers has become an easy wage to vent resentment. A person doesn’t stand a chance in hell of going against billionaires, multi-national corporations, or Wallstreet thieves, but the one thing they can do is beat up on their neighborhood teacher who has health insurance or a job. & rich Republicans, such as Sarah Palin, or people that want to become rich Republicans, use and misdirect this boiling hate to gain power.
I support the teachers of America!
Left wing management
February 19th, 2011
12:56 pm
Republican Haters:
Indeed. As Warren Buffet himself has said, and which the Rupert Murdoch hatchet crew – and Kyle Wingfield – don’t want you to realize:
“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
James West
February 19th, 2011
1:30 pm
Bourgeois@8:23 said, “So we have unions to drive up wages for everyone and create pensions everywhere that must compete with union pensions and then it is all supposed to be paid for how?”
To answer that question, let’s look a Koch Industries. They’re an excellent example because the Koch brothers’ front organizations, disguised as grass roots organizations, helped elect Scott Walker, advise Scott Walker, and are now using their money to bus in counter-protesters.
At the same time, just in the last year, Koch laid off scores of Wisconsin workers from one of the Georgia-Pacific plants they purchased a few years ago. The Koch brothers, who inherited their company, gave themselves a raise of millions last year for their services as executives of the organization. That’s quite a pat on the back.
So, how do you pay for union wages and pensions or union-like wages and pensions? The same way they did for decades before Ronald Reagan was elected. By compensating executives reasonably.
Executive compensation for large corporations used to be, as I recall, in the neighborhood of 10 or 20 times the average compensation for their employees. Today, this statistic is somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 or 400 times.
Most investors would agree that executive management is overpaid, but most owners of large corporations own primarily through 401(k) and IRA mutual funds, and can’t do anything about executive compensation. The system is structured with executives sitting on each others’ boards and determining how each other should be compensated.
Costco is a perfect illustration of how to run a company and maintain/grow our middle class. They limit the compensation of top management allowing them to provide decent wages and benefits to their employees.
Southwest Airlines, fully unionized throughout, is another great example. Southwest beats their competitors year in and year out, in part, by building a loyal staff and compensating them well.
Anybody who claims that cutting corporate taxes is the be-all/end-all, and busting unions is the key to life, isn’t paying attention.
Linda
February 19th, 2011
3:18 pm
FOLLOW THE MONEY:
Here’s a breakdown of what some of the top unions donated to the Democratic Party in the 2008 and 2010 election cycles:
* The AFL-CIO, whose president Richard Trumka is orchestrating much of the protests in Madison this week, donated $1.2 million to Democrats in 2008 and $900,000 in 2010.
* The American Federation of State, County and Municipal employees donated $2.6 million to the Democrats in 2008 and another $2.6 million in 2010.
* The National Education Association donated $2.3 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.2 million in 2010.
* The Teamsters union donated $2.4 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.3 million in 2010.
* The SEIU donated $2.6 million to Democrats in 2008 and $1.7 million in 2010.
* The Carpenters and Joiners union donated $2 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.1 million 2010.
* The Laborers union donated $2.6 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.2 million in 2010.
* The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers donated $3.8 million to Democrats in 2008 and $3.2 million in 2010.
* The American Federation of Teachers donated $2.8 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.7 million in 2010.
* The Machinists and Aerospace union donated $2.5 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.1 million in 2010.
* The Communication Workers of America, which includes employees from several television and radio stations and other publishing platforms, donated $2.2 million to Democrats in 2008 and $2.1 million in 2010.
* The United Autoworkers union (UAW) donated $2.1 million to Democrats in 2008 and $1.5 million in 2010.
* The United Food and Commercial Workers union (UFCW) donated $2.1 million to Democrats in 2008 and $1.9 million in 2010.
Most unions gave a negligible amount, if anything at all, to the Republican Party over the past two elections.
Although staggeringly large, these cash contributions represent ONLY A PORTION of the contributions that the unions make to elect lunatic-left d-crat socialists. The unions also fund the creation and broadcast of their own TV and radio ads in support of the d-crat socialists, they provide massive amounts of labor to help staff the d-crat socialist campaigns, they fund the creation and all costs associated with mass mailings in support of the d-crat socialists, and they fund and supply transportation and other help to the d-crat socialists during the voting process. It is a truly an insidious and incestuous relationship that is very harmful and destructive to “free and open” elections in the American democracy.
Left wing management
February 19th, 2011
4:04 pm
Linda 3:18:
You could hardly be more deluded.
You want to talk about “free and open” elections? How about the Wisconsin governor as an astroturf front man for the Koch brothers and their rightist agenda. $43,000 in campaign funds from the Koch bros to Walker, plus $65,000 from the Koch-funded Republican Governors Ass. Plus, the whole budget deficit is overblown to begin with. It’s a trumped up crisis to enable an attack on unions, pure and simple. As a report from Wisc has it:
More than half of the lower estimate ($117.2 million) is due to the impact of Special Session Senate Bill 2 (health savings accounts), Assembly Bill 3 (tax deductions/credits for relocated businesses), and Assembly Bill 7 (tax exclusion for new employees).
So why are the Koch brothers so focused on Wisconsin specifically? From Talking Points Memo:
Koch owns a coal company subsidiary with facilities in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan; six timber plants throughout the state; and a large network of pipelines in Wisconsin. While Koch controls much of the infrastructure in the state, they have laid off workers to boost profits. At a time when Koch Industries owners David and Charles Koch awarded themselves an extra $11 billion of income from the company, Koch slashed jobs at their Green Bay plant:
Officials at Georgia-Pacific said the company is laying off 158 workers at its Day Street plant because out-of-date equipment at the facility is being replaced with newer, more-efficient equipment. The company said much of the new, papermaking equipment will be automated. [...] Malach tells FOX 11 that the layoffs are not because of a drop in demand. In fact, Malach said demand is high for the bath tissue and napkins manufactured at the plant.
Now that’s what’s truly “an insidious and incestuous relationship that is very harmful and destructive to “free and open” elections in the American democracy”.
Linda
February 19th, 2011
5:02 pm
left@4:04, It’ common knowledge that the union bosses & the Dem. legislators have had an incestuous relationship for decades & that the American taxpayers have been footing the motel bills for millions/billions of dollars. You are comparing that to $108,000 in campaign contributions? You must be kidding!
The Democrat National Committee & Organizing for America, the group the Obama announced 3 days before he was inaugurated to be his personal army to mobilize & support his agenda, are 2 of the groups working in very close coordination with state union officials to oppose these state budget cuts, including busing in protesters.
I don’t think the union protesters have been successful in mustering up new support for their cause.
Left wing management
February 19th, 2011
5:36 pm
Linda 5:02:
I’ve heard that the Koch brothers have been involved in busing in some of the Tea Party counter-protesters, which is legal and fine, and I have no doubt that the union groups have probably helped bring in supporters for their side too. But let me ask you: are you implying that there is not a significant amount of real support for actual Wisconsin residents represented among the protests? If so, that’s a wildly implausible assertion and I’d like to see evidence. I don’t buy it for one second.
You and I know that both parties have relationships with large constituency groups and that the public unions are a major one for Democrats. That’s fine. But what I find interesting is that when workers band together to protect their legitimate rights – and we’re talking about workers who do essential, valuable work for society to boot – and they also look to find some expression for those interests in their political behavior too, that’s somehow maligned as “incestual’. But when one of the biggest and most powerful interest groups in the world – the US Chamber of Commerce, for ex. – tries to work its will in politics, that’s somehow just fine and organic. It’s a crock.
Sherry Edwardson
February 19th, 2011
6:12 pm
You said “The president’s political machine worked in close coordination Thursday with state and national union officials to get thousands of protesters to gather in Madison and to plan similar demonstrations in other state capitals.” Now how would you even know that.
Linda
February 19th, 2011
6:43 pm
left@5:36, What I’m saying is that the Dem. party & Obama, via his OfA, is continuing to support the unions. They are encouraging teachers to violate their contracts by calling in sick & jeopardizing their jobs, setting a poor example for the children they are teaching & even encouraging students to skip school & protest. There is a liability here: classic tort by interfering with a contractural relationship. Aiding & abetting is a violation of contract law. When the president of the US summons a Wisconsin reporter to the White House to give an exclusive interview siding with the unions and involves himself directly & covertly into a dispute between a state & unions, he is in violation of the tenth amendment of the Constitution, that is, states’ rights.
When a governor & his legislature are trying to get their state out of a budget deficit & on the road to prosperity, they do not need the meddling of a president who thinks he & his party can spend borrowed money as a way out of a recession & out of debt.
Let me explain the difference between how the Chamber of Commerce “tries to work its will in politics” & how the public employees’ unions do it. When private companies donates to a political party, checks are written to political campaigns in EXPECTATION of political favors. When a public employees’ union injects itself into politics, it requires the employer (federal, state or local govt.) to collect dues from its employees & send the union dues to the unions, which then divvies them out to political campaigns & the union DEMANDS/COLLECTIVELY BARGAINS/PRESSURES for wages, hours, conditions, health care, retirement, etc. in exchange for showing up for work, i.e. not striking.
Union workers have no more & no less rights than non-union workers. A union member teacher has no more & no less rights than a non-union member teacher.
Monngie
February 19th, 2011
6:50 pm
How ordinary working people can be anti-union is beyond me. If it were not for Unions we would still be working 7 days a week with no fringe benefits, Our children would have to work under horrible conditions to help support our families. Most of the anti union ilk criticize Union workers because they tend to make more money and enjoy fringe benefits that non-union workers don’t have. Instead of criticizing, how about JOINING. Instead of DRAGGING down Union pay and benefits, JOIN a union or bring a Union to your work place to RAISE your pay and benefits. Worker productivity has made great strides in the past ten years, unfortunately wages have not followed suit. Middle Class salaries have stagnated for the past ten years………..no raises for ten years………is that the Unions fault – I don’t think so. It’s the fault of Management and employer inequity. If they had Unions they would realize atleast some of the benefits of THEIR productivity gains and THEIR labor. Productivity has risen atleast 3% per year for the last 10 years……That’s 30% did you get a 30% raise over the last ten years…….NO. Why not? Because you didn’t JOIN a UNION to represent you. You cannot or will not stand with courage along side your fellow workers.
Linda
February 19th, 2011
6:53 pm
Sherry@6:12, Read Kyle’s blog again. The statement you placed in quotation marks was Kyle’s quote from the Washington Post, verbatim.
Left wing management
February 19th, 2011
7:07 pm
Linda: When a governor & his legislature are trying to get their state out of a budget deficit & on the road to prosperity, they do not need the meddling
But this is just the problem. As I mentioned, the problem is not actually about the budget at all. Many – though not all- of the budget measures that brought about the looming shortfall were revenue-cutting programs that favored tax cuts, tax cuts that obviously the state of Wisconsin can’t afford. But leaving that aside, why was it necessary for the governor to include the specific measures, clearly intended to cripple unions, if not for the simple reason that he wants to bust the public unions, which as we already know from recent statements by other Republican leaders (e.g. Gingrich) is a major part of Republican strategy in the near future. This clear attempt to break the back of unions means that – with regard to honoring contracts, setting examples, etc. which you mention – all bets are off.
As to your last point “When a public employees’ union injects itself into politics …” I don’t follow you exactly. You may have to try to explain that argument differently.
Monngie
February 19th, 2011
7:52 pm
The author of this article said, “It’s a cage match to determine first dibs on a shrinking pie. A clarifying moment.” I couldn’t agree more. The reason the pie is shrinking is because free trade agreements were perverted in such a way as to gut the UNION movement in this country. Why pay an American worker a living salary with reasonable fringe benefits when you can pay some one in a third world country a POTATO a day. Why negotiate with labor unions when you pack up and ship your factory to China and make a bundle off of a grateful Chinese happy to be the recipient of that potato. Big Business and Big money are destroying this great nation by destroying the middle class and the only organizations that can defend the middle class are Labor Unions. Who else will advocate for you. Yes, it is a clarifying moment. And it’s clear to me that if Unions are eliminated in this country we will have to be happy with a POTATO a day.
Monngie
February 19th, 2011
8:04 pm
James West – Excellent commentary and factual. Regrettably, you’ll never make it on FOX!
Linda
February 19th, 2011
8:09 pm
left@7:07, States all over the country have critical deficits that were primarily caused by Dems. giving in to unions & promising benefits that the states could not afford, for votes, & pushing the problem down the road after the Dem. legislators left office.
The Pew Center said of the states (2/10) that there’s a $1 T gap between what they have promised to pay retirees & what they set aside to cover the costs (sort of like Social Security).
Christie in NJ gave an example of a state retiree, 49 yrs. old, that paid $124,000 towards his retirement pension & health benefits during his career that will receive $3.3 M in pension payments over his life & nearly $500,000 for health care benefits, a total of $3.8 M on a $120,000 investment.
A retired teacher paid $62K toward her pension & nothing for full family medical, dental & vision coverage over her entire career. NJ will pay her $1.4 M in pension benefits & another $215,000 in health care benefit premiums over her lifetime.
This is not sustainable across the country.
It is not fair for taxpayers in the private sector to pay for their retirement & health care AND the retirement & health care for the public sector.
The left’s answer to all deficit problems is just to raise taxes. The question then arises as to why a self-employed or private sector employee should work more than 6 mts. per year to pay their taxes (which include benefits for the public sector) compared to the public sector employee who only works 9 mts. per year, only 3 mts. per year to pay their taxes & only 20 yrs. before they retire?
The next question arises from a state govt. as how to maintain & attract businesses. It’s certainly not by raising taxes. States compete with each other & must keep all taxes as low as possible.
I can’t make it any more clear than I stated above. A company can only entice a politician. A union thrusts itself into the workforce by demanding that the municipality collect its dues, send them a check & demands results in exchange for the employees showing up for work. It’s coercion.
Why do federal, state & municipal employees need unions in 2011 to protect them from the federal, state & municipal governments?
get out much?
February 19th, 2011
8:27 pm
Interesting that elected officials in Wisconsin don’t contribute to their pensions but then again, conservatives are ok with that, since they don’t belong to a union.
James
February 19th, 2011
10:09 pm
So middle class working and tax paying Americans aren’t Americans anymore. How much of a kick back do you get to work for Koch Industries and the Koch Bros., marketing and PR campaign. They have been setting up the unions to bust and deny the EPA since they financed and coordinated with Fox NewZ their Teabagging events of Health Insurance Mafia friends and family. Again, the Republicans give Trillions in tax gifts to their 1.5% of Americans, and turn on the workers and backbone of the country and say – great meal, my credit card was maxed out by George W. Bush, but we’re sure you can pay for it. You sacrifice. We the Corporate Citizen – will go take a nap and let our little teabbagers echo our demands via Hate AM Radio and Fokkks. Crazy.
James
February 19th, 2011
10:23 pm
This writer by the way works for the Koch Bros. No big surprise there. I’m surprised at the AJC – I thought it was a newspaper – not a branch of Murdoch’s propaganda arem for the Koch Bros. Republican Teabagers.
Left wing management
February 20th, 2011
1:46 am
Linda 8:09:
Lost in all of this verbiage is one crushingly simple fact: it was the scumbag Wall Street speculators
Find me a plan – I don’t care what it is, a transaction tax on speculative financial transactions, whatever – that draws some of the mountains of money chucked into a black hole by these ghouls on Wall Street, then we’ll talk about cutting pensions for middle-class people. What’s going on right now, the way the phony debate is being trumped up about ‘wasteful’ public employees is truly grotesque and obscene. Only poor devil Bernie Madoff is behind bars for the biggest transfer of wealth in the history of the world. And the beneficiaries of it all? Scumbag profiteering Robber Baron Wall Street financiers with their sham formulas and alchemy.
Monngie
February 20th, 2011
2:38 am
Left Wing………keep up the work………more people like you and the truth has to get out eventually. The half truths, lies the Republicans are inundating the American public with are just remarkable. They’ve been perpetrating their lies and half lies for years while hiding behind hot button issues. Your right on with the Bernie Madoff and Robber Baron Wall Street Financiers, but, couldn’t we give them just one more little tax break???????? Then we can lay off some more public servants…..like food inspectors to pay for it…..heck we don’t have enough salmonella poisoning!!!!!!!!
Left wing management
February 20th, 2011
10:29 am
Monngie: “heck we don’t have enough salmonella poisoning!!!!!!!!”
Right on. Yep, we got salmonella poisoning, bridges collapsing in major cities, oil wells blowing up in the Gulf of Mexico and hemorrhaging for months on end, profiteer military contractors and corrupt puppet-government associates in far-flung locales hauling away payola cash by the suitcase (and probably running heroin to boot – why not!), kids who can’t read, the mentally ill just roaming the street and some of them walking into gun shops where they pass under the non-existent radar of background checks no one takes seriously, and on and on the list goes ….
But hey, what’s not to like? It’s still America! And didn’t the Gipper teach us how to approach problems? Just slap a smile on our face, dial up some home-spun notion of national greatness off you go into the future of the greatest country the world has known, which is waiting for us with open arms. Yippee!
Linda
February 20th, 2011
12:40 pm
Left@1:46, FDR froze wages. It was govt. intervention that caused the beginning of companies offering benefits.
The trend has completely reversed. Companies no longer need to offer benefits to attack employees. It’s an employers’ market. Companies are hiring seasonal workers with no benefits & no job security.
Simplified, there are 3 types of employers. If you work for a typical business, you work directly for an individual or family. If you work for a corporation, you report to a supervisor, who reports to the officers, who report to the board of directors, but you actually work for people all over the US who hold stock in the corporation. If you work for the government, you actually work for the taxpayers.
If you are a union member, your loyalty could be skewed. The best interests of the union might prevail over the company, stockholders or taxpayers, & in the case of teachers, even over the children.
I agree that unions were needed years ago. However, unions have been loosing members for decades, especially in the private sector, & will loose the public sector over the next decade. I agree with FDR that the public sector should not have been unionized. There is absolutely no need in 2011 for unions to protect workers from abuses from the government. There is no need & no money.
The crisis on Wall St. did not begin on Wall St. It was also caused by govt. intervention in the housing market. WE are Wall St. The American people are the stockholders, the employees, the employers, the officers, the board, the lenders, etc. We should hope that Wall St. succeeds with the best people money can buy. Its success determines our financial future. Our investments & our taxes depend on it. It effects every taxpayer & citizen.
Left wing management
February 20th, 2011
2:26 pm
Linda: Companies no longer need to offer benefits to attack employes
Interesting slip, Linda. I’m sure you meant to write “to attract employees”. But in fact “attack employees” is perfectly appropriate because that’s just what’s been happening to middle-class employees and workers for at least 4 decades now since workers’ real wages started flattening out relative to corporate profits in the 1970s.
Just too much to go into here and obviously we’re not going to agree on this anytime soon, but let me just say that I think Roosevelt, who was right about so much, was wrong on this one. We do need unions in the public sector as Roosevelt himself would have likely realized had he lived further into the post-war period, a period in which it was widely accepted both by government and the workers, just as it was in the private sector, that unionization was a win-win and a boon to both sides (helped worker morale, created stability and a process for communication, etc.). The real lesson in the fact that public workers are now more often seen as doing better than their private counterparts is not that public workers are greedy or have managed to rig the system for lucrative pay and pensions, but precisely that the private sector has by contrast performed at a horrendous level when it comes to providing decent pay and long-term security for its workers. That’s the real lesson here; this is (should be) about the greediness of the powers in the private sector and not any greediness on the part of public workers.
As to the cause of the financial crisis, these causes are too complex to simply say the meltdown was caused by the attempt to expand home ownership among the poor, etc. as many powerful interests have a strong interest in making it seem so that they can white-wash the catastrophe they brought on. It’s just as correct to say it was caused by the deregulation of the 1990s – most notably the Glass Steagall rollback under Clinton – and it’s also quite correct to say it was brought on by a fundamental imbalance in unbridled capitalism itself – a tendency towards speculation,.i.e. runaway financialization that is more and more divorced from the ‘real’ economy. But as I said, I understand we’re unlikely to agree on much here.
Linda
February 20th, 2011
3:46 pm
left@2:26, Bottom line, what do you want? Do you want to end the US States as we have known it for over 200 yrs.? Do you want us to be a socialist country? Where has it ever worked? Do you want to limit profits on small businesses & corporations? Do you feel the need to end the American Dream? You you want to kill free enterprise & capitalism? Do you want to scrap the Constitution? Do you want to grow the fed. govt. & have it decide what’s fair & what’s not fair, who’s deserving & who isn’t? Do you want to end prosperity? What’s happened to personal responsibility? What about equal opportunity?
Could it be that the private sector could not AFFORD to pay lucrative benefits? Could it be that unionized industries also could not AFFORD to pay lucrative benefits (steel, airlines, auto manufacturers, etc.)? Could it be that the public sector also could not AFFORD to pay lucrative benefits (natl. debt, unfunded liabilities to social security & medicare, half the states close to bankruptcy, etc)?
The difference between the private sector & the public sector is not greed. It’s profit. Greed & profit are not one in the same. Being successful should be commended, not condemned.
Could you give me just one example of that boon you mentioned. What industry, company, corporation, state or county is booning/booming today that is unionized?
I don’t know of anyone calling public workers greedy. They do, however, feel entitled, like millions of others in the US. There is no sector that is more & less entitled to jobs, benefits, collective bargaining, tenure, etc. than another sector. We have equal opportunities & equal rights. Discrimination is illegal & immoral. That includes class warfare.
I know of no one who was more disadvantaged than my father. He made it & lived the American Dream, without ever walking a step in his life, with no govt. assistance.
I agree with your last paragraph except to clarify that speculation followed in the 2000s. Kudos.
Left wing management
February 20th, 2011
4:36 pm
Linda:
Again, I’m afraid we’re going around in circles and going over ground we’ve already covered before. Just to pick a couple of the points you mentioned: the immorality of “class warfare”. I agree it’s terrible and really wish the greedy and powerful were not allowed to trample on the less powerful as much as they are. To once again quote one of our country’s richest men, which I did Friday, who said it best: ““There’s class warfare, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
On the issue of personal responsibility. What does it say about a system that preaches personal responsibility and then allows the most outrageous abuses by those at the top of the all-powerful financial sector, who nearly wreck our financial system, then get bailed out by taxpayers and pocket hefty bonuses. These obscenities undercut any talk of ‘personal responsibility’. Last week on one of our discussions at Bookman’s blog a colleague of mine posted the following description of the robber barons running our financial system, which I’m reposting here bec I don’t think I can explain it any better:
.. a robber baron is somebody who knowlingly makes a bad loan, which he is certain will never be repaid, then packages “secrutitizes” several of these bad loans, but secures AAA rating, then sells the bad loans to a pension fund or other investor; AND blames the the mortgage borrower (but not the lender who refused to perform due dilligence, at the expense of shareholders, I might add). then, when the house of cards collapses, he grabs $25 or $45 billion in TARP, pulls the rip cord on his golden parachute, pays a 60 million fine, but still walks with $250 or $300 million.
As to your observation: I agree with your last paragraph except to clarify that speculation followed in the 2000s. Kudos.
Yeah, exactly, the rollback of Glass Steagall in ‘99 followed by the Commodities Futures Modernization Act in ‘00 which gutted regulatory oversight of stock trading, setting the table for the wild wild west in financial speculation that we saw in the 2000s.
One more thing. You make a big point of the distinction between greed and profit, but one thing’s noticeably absent in your discussion: service. Where in your understanding of work and compensation is there room for the cultivation of careers in public service employment in traditionally less lucrative occupations – putting out fires, arresting criminals, delivering mail, teaching children – to offer people some measure of security in return for their foregoing more lucrative, private sector jobs? I never said I opposed success or profit per se. What I do oppose is a system that white-washes the crimes of those who rig the system through financial power and then when it blows up stick the workers and middle class with the bill. As Michael Lewis said best, we’ve arrived at the most absurd of situations, where “we have socialism for the capitalists and capitalism for everyone else”. That is not sustainable.
Linda
February 20th, 2011
6:38 pm
Enter your comments here
Monngie
February 20th, 2011
8:24 pm
Linda, what do you call class warfare? I call class warfare the upper 2% getting the lions share of tax breaks. This is a demand driven recession; Give the upper 2% billions of dollars in tax breaks and what do they do with them? Our factories are generally running at 70% capacity, so they are NOT going to invest in new plants…..there’s no demand. They’re not going to hire more people….there’s no demand. What there going to do is invest in emerging markets overseas. They are pillaging this country and selling the middle class down the river. THAT IS CLASS WARFARE. Give the billions to the middle class to spend and invest in alternate energy infrastructure and electric/hybrid automobiles, high speed rail, roads and bridges, smart grid and high speed internet access for everyone, and this countries economy will take-off. Regrettably the Republican Party has no vision and is set on destroying the middle class.
Monngie
February 20th, 2011
8:41 pm
Linda, I hope you are young enough to benefit from our lack of Unions in this country if the power elite are successful. As soon as there is no SOLIDARITY among workers they will have a field day. We, or our children will be doomed to repeat history. But, if your not young enough, Oh Well, your kids will have a ball. The reason membership has been decreasing is because free trade agreements were perverted in such a way as to gut the UNION movement in this country. Why pay an American worker a living salary with reasonable fringe benefits when you can pay some one in a third world country a POTATO a day. Why negotiate with labor unions when you pack up and ship your factory to China and make a bundle off of a grateful Chinese happy to be the recipient of that potato. They’ll probably even get a tax break for moving. Big Business and Big money are destroying this great nation by destroying the middle class and the only organizations that can defend the middle class are Labor Unions. Who else will advocate for you. Yes, it is a clarifying moment. And it’s clear to me that if Unions are eliminated in this country we will have to be happy with a POTATO a day.
Wisconsin Patriot
February 20th, 2011
11:26 pm
@don: Google is your friend. A simple search would tell you that the “Wisconsin had a surplus” line is a LIE, and a very poor one at that. In fact, in the 6 months prior to the election, both candidates were asked how they were going to deal with the $2 billion deficit. Once the Republican got elected….whoopsie, did we mention we “miscalculated” and it’s really THREE BILLION?
Monngie
February 20th, 2011
11:54 pm
I Googled Patriot…..not one reference to Republicans!
tom
February 21st, 2011
12:49 am
john.
Regarding your comment:
“Has anyone noticed the bill in Wisconson bill exempts those unions who supported Republicans in the last election (police, fire, etc.) and only attacks those that supported Democrats.”
That is a lie that has already been debunked.
Police and firefighter are exempt.
Do you know how many local police and firefighter unions there are in Wisconsin?
314.
Do you know how many endorsed Walker?
4
All the rest endorsed his Democrat opponent.
If you are going to lie..at least lie about something that isn’t so easily disproven.
Here Spot
February 21st, 2011
8:27 am
For this latest act of treason, Emporer Obama will probably go to hell.
Junior Samples
February 21st, 2011
11:09 am
I take exception to Obama being caled the worst Prez ever. That award goes to Georgia’s head peanut (or Goober) Jimmy Carter.
Monngie
February 21st, 2011
1:07 pm
Junior you just don’t know what your talking about. If we had continued the energy policies of Jimmy Carter and expanded on them our Sons And Daughters wouldn’t have had to get their asses shot off in the middle east we would be energy independent. TREASON???? How about lying to get us into an unnecessary and I would argue unjust war in Iraq killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, thousands of our Sons and Daughters and injuring tens of thousands more. I’d say the NEOCONS have cornered the market on TREASON. We would have been done in Afghanistan years ago if we hadn’t gone into Iraq. Regrettably, because of that NEOCON act of treason our Sons and Daughters are still getting killed and injured there. But, then again, if we continued Jimmy Carter’s energy policies we would not have had all those foreign entanglements which caused all this.
SD
February 25th, 2011
2:55 pm
Let me ask you demented readers a few questions which all ref. Georgia being a ‘right to work state’ with no unions in their public sector. If unions are the cause of states experiencing budget shortfalls then WHY?
Does Georgia have a budget short fall and it doesn’t have a Union?
Georgia teachers pay higher prices for their benefits, but they experience furloughs, and cuts in pay, but they don’t have a UNION? hmmm…
Georgia Schools score 47 & 48 respectively on standardized testing where children in Wisconsin are scoring 3 & 4th, why is this? hmm
When we start treating are teachers like they are worth something, then we will get better students..
Temporary sit backs dude, I guarantee, this Gov. won’t be re-elected and Wisconsin will be back blue in 1.5 -2 years. This Gov. never campaigned on removing collective bargaining rights, OH, and my the way he doesn’t have a college education, he dropped out of College….hmmm