Pay inmates? No, but let’s correct some prison problems
Georgia’s next governor, Nathan Deal, said Wednesday the state must cut its work force to balance the budget.
Psst…Mr. Deal! Wanna know who ought to be first in line for the pink slips? How about the prison guards who sold so many cell phones to inmates that the jailbirds were able to organize a short-lived protest in state penitentiaries this month?
Depending on whom you believe, either the wardens at four state prisons locked down inmates for several days to pre-empt a protest, or the prisoners themselves refused to leave their cells to perform their work assignments.
The inmates used their contraband mobile phones — it’s a felony in this state for a prisoner to possess one — to send text messages to one another. Some of them used the phones to call an AJC reporter to claim credit for the work stoppage.
Their gripe? In large part, it’s that they want to be paid for working jobs within the lockups and on other state property.
One of them, a convicted murderer named Diego, told our reporter that he paid a prison guard $350 for a pre-paid phone. So, forgive me for doubting these guys are truly hurting for cash.
But let’s say the offending guards are caught. And let’s say the inmates are made to understand they’re not going to start getting paid — not beyond the food, shelter and health care they already receive, that is.
And certainly not when the state is eyeing up to $2 billion more in budget cuts. Far from paying inmates, the Georgia Department of Corrections, like other state agencies, will probably have to further tighten its belt.
We spend about $1 billion a year on Corrections. The agency needs some creative, money-saving solutions.
One in 13 Georgia adults is in jail or on probation or parole. That’s the nation’s highest rate. And once inmates are released, they’re returning to prison in alarming numbers. During the past decade, two in three ex-cons have been re-arrested within three years. Something isn’t working.
There’s little wiggle room for dealing with killers like Diego. But we ought to look seriously at alternative options for those incarcerated for lesser crimes.
And we might find some possibilities in another historically tough-on-crime state: Texas.
In a recent essay for the free-market Georgia Public Policy Foundation, Marc Levin of the Center for Effective Justice in Texas focused on some policies toward nonviolent offenders in his state that appear to be more effective and less expensive than what we’re trying.
Since 2005, Levin wrote, Texas has saved more than $2 billion in projected prison costs through “reforms to strengthen community-based supervision, sanctions and treatment options for nonviolent offenders.” At the same time, the state’s crime rate in 2009 was at its lowest level since 1973.
Here’s a place to start in Georgia. According to Levin, we spend $151 million a year to house about 9,000 drug offenders. It’s not only dealers who are serving long sentences: The “average [Georgia] inmate released in 2009 on a drug possession charge,” he wrote, “spent 21 months locked up…”
We have drug courts and day-reporting centers that are ripe for expansion. Levin’s Texas example also suggests more drug testing, graduated punishments and incentives for parolees to behave themselves.
Then we can focus on keeping violent guys like Diego behind bars. They need to pay for their crimes, not get paid.
– By Kyle Wingfield
Find me on Facebook
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
85 comments Add your comment
Tommy Maddox
December 17th, 2010
7:25 pm
Kyle – there’s always some rocks that need busted.
Greg in the Highlands
December 17th, 2010
8:25 pm
Having been a victim of an eight time convicted felon last June, I say 3 strikes and you get the chair. Recidivism would be a thing of the past with criminals fleeing the state after a second conviction. The state would save money and the streets would be safer.
barking frog
December 17th, 2010
8:40 pm
How about we abolish the Parole Board and its staff
and allow the Department of Corrections Probation
Division to handle all supervised release with electronic
monitoring paid for by the prisoner. Probation for
all misdemeanor offenses with incarceration for
probation violation.
Michael H. Smith
December 17th, 2010
8:56 pm
If you don’t like the harsh prison life in Georgia please relocate to Maricopa County, Arizona.
AMERICAN PRISONS: PUNISHMENT OR REHABILITATION?
Sheriff Joe Arpaio runs a no-frills prison for Maricopa County, Arizona. He has organized prisoners into chain gangs, houses them in tents in the scorching desert sun and feeds them baloney sandwiches with no coffee. Inmates are denied broadcast television but given educational programming. “I want to make this place so unpleasant that they won’t even think about doing something that could bring them back,” says Arpaio. “I want them to suffer.
Taking away jail privileges
Arizona sheriff keeps inmates in jail, saves money
“I’m in a Catch 22,” Arpaio said. “Because I don’t do it to save taxpayer’s money, I do it based on the theory that they should never live better in jail than they do on the outside. If I had a billion dollars they would still be eating 15 cent meals.”
…Again, Arpaio didn’t have money saving in mind when he came up with the all-postcard plan. He said that too many people hide things in envelopes or under stamps such as drugs and other contraband.
His inmates also wear pink socks and underwear. Arpaio had a problem with inmates stealing the white underwear and smuggling it out of prison; as a result they were losing money.
“They hate pink. That’s why I do that,” Arpaio said. “Why would men like to wear pink underwear?”
As a result there has been far less underwear stolen.
“I’m in a Catch 22,” Arpaio said. “Because I don’t do it to save taxpayer’s money, I do it based on the theory that they should never live better in jail than they do on the outside. If I had a billion dollars they would still be eating 15 cent meals.”
Arpaio has chain gangs. He is the first man in history to form a female and juvenile chain gang.
They clean streets, paint over graffiti and bury the indigent in the county cemetery.
Despite the fact that housing an inmate in Maricopa County costs $7 dollars a day more than in San Bernardino County, they still operate under a budget half that of San Bernardino County.
In Maricopa County, it costs $61 a day to house an inmate, yet they are holding over 4,000 more inmates than San Bernardino County where it costs $54 a day.
According to Maricopa county officials, the high cost of housing an inmate comes from the fact that they built two new jail facilities and have consistently been adding positions to handle the growing inmate population for the past five years.
Yet, Maricopa County, the fourth most populated area in America, operates under a $212 million budget, while San Bernardino County’s is upwards of $400 million.
While San Bernardino County is struggling to find room for inmates, Arpaio is hiring more officers and building more tents to handle Maricopa County’s growing inmate population, proving that he has a clear understanding of the price of public safety.
As his signature phrase that graces his posters and post cards illustrates, “Crime never pays.”
http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/county-782-arpaio-inmates.html
Claude
December 17th, 2010
9:01 pm
Here’s a way to save some money. Go through the long and growing list of registered sex offenders and make some common sense decisions about who is really dangerous and who isn’t.
itpdude
December 17th, 2010
9:52 pm
Hah, Claude, you got that one right, brother. I don’t really know what makes someone a sex offender. Is it some guy who committed statutory rape at age 20 when he banged a 14 year old who looked 18, acted 18, and said she was 18?
Those guys are a far cry from the guys who snatch boys from the street and stuff them in the back of a conversion van or the uncle who touches his niece inappropriately or the home-invader who decides to rape granny.
Another thing with sex-offenders, it may be time to allow those convicted of a sex-crime to mitigate his prison sentence with voluntary castration. A lot of those guys simply cannot help themselves, which is sad, but we can’t have those guys roaming around with a loaded crotch and no control over themselves.
Dusty
December 17th, 2010
10:08 pm
There is something wrong about prisoners getting paid for work. If you pay them, then take out deductions for room, board, food, healthcare and security. Those of us not in jail have to pay for those things from our paychecks. If prisoners have families, then they must assign their earning after deductions to their legal families. Why does a prisoner need money in jail?
Kyle is correct about prison guards selling illegal phones to prisoners. Fire ‘em and drop their benefits. just like everyone else who gets fired.
I hope Gov-elect Deal will make some changes in the prison system…maybe throw in some pink underwear and socks if necessary!
Bravesfan79
December 17th, 2010
11:57 pm
How about some real solutions from a 5 time survivor of black violent crime in Atlanta.
#1 Castrate all criminals convicted of a violent crime. Them not being able to re-enter society and spread more fatherless kids would probably do wonders for the”black community” Where it seems 9 out of 10 kids are without fathers around.
#2 Castrate all pedifiles/ child molesters.
#3 On a persons 2nd conviction of a violent offense (im talking carjackings, robberies, not simple assault), they should be put to Death, regardless of age!
#4. Start trying all violent acts as adults after the age of 13.
A place like Singapore might not be as “fair” as other more Liberal countries, but at least you could walk down the street at night without looking over your shoulder the whole time.
Peter
December 18th, 2010
12:26 am
Kyle……
Crazy stuff like pink underwear is only going to fly so far with the population, and some of the boys will be called Rusty……….
Seems the biggest problem is the ” Failure to Communicate ” !
That being ……. the ” Deal Lie ” to the state about his financial situation.
And this is the guy to make thing Right ? HA HA HA !
Prisonworld
December 18th, 2010
1:02 am
The State Prison System definitely has issues. Tune into our radio show tomorrow where we be discussing these very issues and the “inside scoop” we received on the lockdown but did not report. Feel free to call in and voice your opinion. See ya Sunday @6pm EST
http://www.prisonworldradiohour.com
Ted Striker
December 18th, 2010
1:10 am
The simplest solution to prison overcrowding is to do away with sentences for non-violent crimes and crimes not involving property damage or harm/endangerment to others.
John Franklin (JF) McNamara
December 18th, 2010
1:53 am
Maybe we need less laws and harsher punishments. I’m with letting the non-violent people out completely, and stopping prosecution on minor drug arrests. Prisons should only hold murderers (including DUI people who actually injured someone), rapist, meth, crack and heroin dealers, and 3rd time property crime committers (or high dollar embezzelers). We should have a more free state with smaller prisons with more draconian sentences.
get out much?
December 18th, 2010
5:41 am
When you are dealing with people who are already locked up for life, there is not much more you can take away from them to prevent bad behavior but there are things you can give them to help insure “good” behavior. One of those things is a “nominal” fee for the work they perform. If you start taking away their incentives, what reasons do they have to cooperate. You can’t punish them by putting them in prison, they are already there.
Oh and for those fans of Joe Arpaio, you might want to check out how much Maricopa County has had to pay out in lawsuits over the years because of his “tough guy” act.
Recvivdism
December 18th, 2010
5:59 am
Kyle you only reported only one demand the inmates just threw in the topic of discussion. They are not being fed, they do not get free medical care, their work assignments are to clean the warden’s car and other things for the administrators at the prison. They are not cleaning streets, picking cotton, painting walls or nothing that woudl benefit the community or state. They are being held in correction facilities not state penitentiaries. I understand the recividism, when they are released without some type of education or counseling then how do they survive outside. With no training how do you get a job with a record too. When no one outside is willing to look past your record where do you turn after stress of trying to find a job with no money and no transportation, no education, no help? We can not just put this all on the inmates now. Less violent offenders need not go into the system because they become real offenders. Do something about these facilities and employees there!!!!! This was the inmates only outletm, cellphones, because when they try to write letters of the wrong doings then they are beaten and locked in the hole. The outside never sees whats going on in the inside. Inmates are getting killed by officers and other violent inmates. Wardens are taking matters in their own hands without discussing with Dept of Corrections. We convict innocent people in court, that’s what starts the process. The judges give ridiculous sentences and that’s why we pay so much for prisons and have such a high rate of incarceration. Georgia wants to make money off of prisons, they will never ever make that decision to release non violent offenders or even cut their time in half. The Parole Board is doing nothing except sitting on their a****. As people make your complaint about sentencing and placing of offenders. Look at the crime and then decide where and how long, when you are on the jury. Make that statement.
the answers are on the shelf
December 18th, 2010
6:49 am
The Georgia Commission on Certainty in Sentencing released its
final report December 6, 2002, and recommended the adoption of sentencing guidelines. Using an extensive analysis of 3,000 cases from 1999 to 2001, the commission outlined several changes in the way offenders are sentenced. These include 1) drafting proposed
sentencing guidelines for use; 2) providing judges with new sentencing options that allow inmates to be housed at appropriate levels of security; 3) ensuring a match between sentencing options and correctional resources; and 4) concentrating resources
on incarcerating violent, sex, and career offenders. This commission argued that these changes would provide certainty and predictability in sentencing and provide equitable punishment of similar offenders for similar offenses. At the same time, the proposed guidelines would allow judges to retain discretion to individualize sentences, albeit at the
margins and with departures.
Karl Marx
December 18th, 2010
6:55 am
Pay them? Yes we should. Give them a paycheck with all the deductions we have to put up with, FICA ,State and Federal Income tax etc, etc. PLUS don’t forget to Include the COST OF THEIR INCARCERATION. By the time they deduct all of that the “paycheck” will become a “bill” of several thousand dollars and another necessary life’s lesson to these prisoners.
ED COWAN
December 18th, 2010
7:48 am
800 MILLION TO UP DATE THE OLD TIFT COLLEGE. SO THE DOC COULD MOVE FROM DOWNTOWN? WERE IS THE OUT CRY ON SPENDING.
The Right Brothers
December 18th, 2010
7:55 am
Hey, I have an idea. We could pay the prisoners for their hard work and let them use that money to pay off their fines and pay for their healthcare and food and room and board, etc., the peons. After all, why should they be treated any different than the rest of us.
The Right Brothers
December 18th, 2010
8:04 am
Georgia sure does have a boatload of uneducated, proverty-striken jobless bums, doesn’t it Kyle. Perhaps a tax cut is in order to create jobs and other such stuff for them. What do you think, Kyle. Educate us on where we went wrong. Was peonage the better option. After all, it’s sulf-sustaining.
Irvine Divine
December 18th, 2010
8:38 am
Definitely punish the correctional officers who provided the phones. They might decide later to provide weapons.
the truth
December 18th, 2010
8:39 am
Georgia’s budget spends more $$$ on the Dept of Corrections that any other state is’s size….we have too many people in prison for drug and non violate offenses….our law makers are idiots…and we keep voting for them….
Jason
December 18th, 2010
8:43 am
Until the the drug dealers are off the street, crime is going to continue to run rampant. Your ideas aren’t new and have been beat around for some time. As a probation officer, I see first hand how bad it is getting. We are constantly getting softer on criminals yet victims continue to suffer. Liberals and criminals love the idea of alternatives to incarceration. You want drug courts day reporting centers but do they really do anything other than not incarcerate people. In the Tifton Day Reporting Center, addicts know they can test positive 3-4 times before anything is even considered as far as punishment. After that 4th positive drug screen, they will serve about 15 days in a county jail at the most. There really is no risk for the reward for the addict. There are people on probation on 4-5 different drug cases. Where is the justice in that? I am not sure there are any answers for this escalating problem. The state wants to reduce recidivism and free up bed space by reducing the standards of supervision. There is actually a call in center for convicted felons to report monthly. They will never see a probation officer in many cases. It is getting to the point where you can do most anything not violent or sexual and guarantee yourself no serious jail time. Even child molesters and aggravated assault cases are often given straight probation. It is getting to a point where I am welcoming vigilantiism (sp).
jconservative
December 18th, 2010
8:49 am
If we really want to save money and reduce state spending lets start with eliminating the Georgia State Patrol. I have yet to see them do anything that the county sheriff, county police or the local city police cannot do.
Cool hand Clyde.
December 18th, 2010
8:49 am
The only prison reform I’d support would be one in which Clyde Wingnut ends up behind bars. (and then they throw away the key).
and he gets bread and water. (and that’s his xmas dinner, you should see the day in day out fare).
and he gets the hose, and no conjugal visits.
Sean Smith
December 18th, 2010
9:24 am
Cell phone jammers would help solve the problem. Make the phone worthless.
Michael H. Smith
December 18th, 2010
9:48 am
I was almost in shock Kyle when I didn’t see the bleeding heart bed-wetters jumping on this blog but I did say almost, as I see they’ve finally arrived with their usual no punishment reward good behavior look the other way at bad behavior reform non-sense.
Jails and prisons are meant to be deplorable places barely on the edge of what is remotely humane where no one should ever want to go for a very good reason. They should not be comfortable places to live. The food should be lousy. The clothing shouldn’t be anything somebody would want to wear, let alone steal. There shouldn’t be any UNEARNED PRIVILEGES, like work release. Parole ought to be harder to come by than finding gold in a silver mine.
One line of thought that caught my eye…
I understand the recividism, when they are released without some type of education or counseling then how do they survive outside. With no training how do you get a job with a record too. When no one outside is willing to look past your record where do you turn after stress of trying to find a job with no money and no transportation, no education, no help? We can not just put this all on the inmates now.
We don’t put anything on the inmates they did not put on themselves. Until a Con acknowledges that fact to themselves and to those whoever they may ask for help, they don’t deserve it. When a Con stops conning themselves and everyone else they will approach seeking help in a manner that says… Yes, I screwed up. It was all my own doing. I owe society and hope someone will see that I’m now ready to earn back the right to be a stand-up citizen that contributes to society rather than only takes from it and others, the things that do not belong to me or break society’s laws that I don’t like, think stupid and are made for fools and the weak-minded.
Merle Haggard was a convict shooting straight when he said… “back when coke was coca-cola and a joint was a bad place to be”
I don not support making jails and prisons better places with better living conditions and I don’t put any faith whatsoever in penal reform that does not impose PUNISHMENT for crimes committed. Only the Convict needs to reform.
Crime should never pay a reward of any kind!
@@
December 18th, 2010
10:13 am
One in 13 Georgia adults is in jail or on probation or parole. That’s the nation’s highest rate. And once inmates are released, they’re returning to prison in alarming numbers. During the past decade, two in three ex-cons have been re-arrested within three years.
Oh my! What….is the one in 13 somebody who let opportunity pass ‘em by? I’d say if the recidivism rate is 2 in three, life inside is much too pleasant.
No doubt the inmates grew tired of the monitoring system that came with their COLLECT calls to family members. No financial burden for the cons….just additional burden to the family. Talk about self-centered! There’s nothing that defines it better than a person who can’t avoid prison.
carlosgvv
December 18th, 2010
10:17 am
In the 1950’s and early 1960’s you could walk the streets of Atlanta in safety. But then, political correctness was born and now Atlanta is filled with savages and half-savages. Restore swift and CERTAIN punishment for criminals and watch crime go down.
Rafe Hollister
December 18th, 2010
10:28 am
Georgia definitely needs to look at some of its stupid sentencing guidelines. Smoking pot in CA is a $10 fine and can be a 21 month sentence in Georgia. You can understand that the kids do not get the varying views on MJ possession. Different counties look at MJ possession differently, Fulton versus some Bible belt county, not exactly equal protection.
The Statutory Rape laws are treated harshly by some and more leniently by others. Just depends on where and who caught them. Some cops turn their heads, others throw the book at the kids. Driving with suspended license is a serious charge but depends on lawyer and jurisdiction, how severely it is punished. The whole sentencing process makes this state unjust.
The state should adopt new, more successful, and less punitive punishment for non violent offenders. More required alcohol and drug counseling, rehabilatation, monitoring, drug testing, etc as an alternative to prison. Let the offender pay to do these things to stay out of prison. Let them earn the money from doing community service projects.
Prisons should be reserved for violent criminals and repeat offenders.
Crenshaw8
December 18th, 2010
10:38 am
Third strike should come with a death sentence. Law abiding citizens are tired of the “let’s be liberal” garbage.
ronald
December 18th, 2010
10:41 am
“Here’s a place to start in Georgia. According to Levin, we spend $151 million a year to house about 9,000 drug offenders. It’s not only dealers who are serving long senteylnces: The “average [Georgia] inmate released in 2009 on a drug possession charge,” he wrote, “spent 21 months locked up…”
Kyle- What exactly are you suggesting here? It sounds as if you’re suggesting that drug possession shouldn’t result in prison time. If this is your stance, then just say so. Hard to believe I’d hear that from you though. Listen, there are LOTS of ways for the state to cut costs. I don’t think we need to consider letting drug offenders spend less time in prison, just to save money. Society will pay an even higher cost repairing the damage that these people do, if left alone with their drug problems.
ronald
December 18th, 2010
10:44 am
And obviously, I like the idea of the 15c baloney sandwiches. I find it odd that people would criticize the Arizona sheriff who doesn’t allow network TV in the prisons. Why did we ever get to a point where TVs are allowed in prisons anyway? What a joke.
Claude
December 18th, 2010
11:29 am
A couple of thoughts:
1. You don’t have to be naive about human nature to recognize that there’s something inherently sad about incarceration numbers that now reach into the millions. It’s a terrible waste of human potential.
2. Recividism rates are high and will probably go higher. Governments usually come up with plans for early release or alternatives to prison when the economy is lousy, but that’s also the worst time for a convicted person to get a job and turn his life around. Employers can do a background check with just a few clicks on a computer, and the few employers who are hiring have plenty of non-criminals to choose from. Long gone are the days when you could move to a new town and start over. Now your past is always with you.
Reality Check
December 18th, 2010
11:31 am
The first problem is the stattistic 1 in 13 GA adults are either incarcerated, on probation or on payrole. There must be people going to jail that could have been punished in a different manner. I guess when prisons become a private business, you have to have a product….
The statistic of people returning to the prison system within 2 or 3 years most of the time could be be directly related to the fact that businesses won’t hire people with a record. Good things don’t usually come from people being unable to work and having too much free time on their hands. We need programs to give these people an opportunity to work after theier release.
There are some people who will never be rehabilitatde and prisons were made for them, but the majority of prisoners just did something stupid.
Sean Smith
December 18th, 2010
12:11 pm
I am just curious. We cant find jobs for all of the law abiding citizens out there right now. Where are the jobs for excons going to come from. There aren’t enough waffle house cooks jobs for every excon to get a job. And its clear the republican Georgia government isn’t going to do anything about this issue since it would require spending money.
Independent
December 18th, 2010
12:54 pm
I agree with you on the guards – find out who the culprits are and fire them, then prosecute them if there is a law against it, if not, create such a law. As far as our prison population goes, in order to decrease our prison population we need to lengthen sentences. I know, that sounds contradictory, but when a burglar breaks into your house and steals your flat-screen TV (one of your “non-violent crimes), he goes to jail with a three-year sentence but serves about one month. No wonder as soon as he is back on the street, he goes right back to burglarizing houses. Make a three-year sentence a three year sentence, no probation and no parole. Then maybe he will think twice about the burglary. And for y’all that think drug possession and drug use should not land someone in jail, I agree, as long as they can prove that all the money they used to buy those drugs came from a legal job. Most drug money is gained through illegal activities such as destroying a $3000 air conditioner to get the $30 in copper out of it. Put the criminals in jail, allow them no rights, feed them Nutriloaf if they complain. And if they start throwing their feces, lock them naked in a special room with cold shower nozzles in the ceiling and feed them through a slot in the door for a month. They will get the idea. And for goodness sake, put murderers on the fast track for trials and use the death penalty when it is clearly warranted, where there is no question of guilt. Do the sme if the perpetrator is 10 years old or mentally ill. The supreme court made a serious error when they said we could not execute the mentally ill, now all murderers are mentally ill. The danger to society is the same whether these people are mentally ill or whether they are just evil. They should both be executed the way Old Yeller was executed – for the good of society.
Randy P.
December 18th, 2010
1:00 pm
“I want to make this place so unpleasant that they won’t even think about doing something that could bring them back,” says (Sheriff) Arpaio. “I want them to suffer.” <> “Arpaio is hiring more officers and building more tents to handle Maricopa County’s growing inmate population,…”
Arpaio’s Draconian public safety policies do not seem to be very successful, do they?
Linda
December 18th, 2010
1:02 pm
There is a relationship between lack of education & criminal activity. 18% of the general population lack high school diplomas, whereas 41% of inmates in state & federal prisons were high school dropouts. Schooling reduces the probability of incarceration.
Zero tolerance policies have raised the likelihood of incarceration. Suspensions & expulsions need to be minimized. Peer mediation, conflict resolution, guidance counseling, mentoring, community service & after-school detention should be substituted, whenever possible.
High school education is many times more effective to prevent incarceration than prison education is to prevent recidivism.
We should have strict state compulsory high school attendance laws & punishment for parents whose teenagers are habitually truant. Minimum wage for teenagers should be lowered, but laws should be enacted to prevent teenagers from working during school hours. Drivers licenses should be revoked for dropouts.
hunter
December 18th, 2010
1:25 pm
gw and dick should be in jail for crimes against humanity.
Linda
December 18th, 2010
1:35 pm
Secure the borders! Keep drugs out of our country.
barking frog
December 18th, 2010
2:05 pm
The Federal system pays their prisoners a nominal
sum for work performed.
Double Standard
December 18th, 2010
2:36 pm
Well, for thieves, we could chop off their right hand. For white collar criminals, we could remove both eyes for the first offense, and the hearing in both ears for the second. For druggies, I suggest castration. Three offenses, and its off with their heads.
Double Standard
December 18th, 2010
2:37 pm
Oh yeah, lying politicians get the guillotine for the first offense!
In my opinion...
December 18th, 2010
2:45 pm
Rafe Hollister has the best post on the board….
Michael H. Smith
December 18th, 2010
3:33 pm
Arpaio’s Draconian public safety policies do not seem to be very successful, do they?
Yep!
Michael H. Smith
December 18th, 2010
3:40 pm
Also to those who make an issue over the lawsuits Arpaio faces due to his hardline against crime, consider the fact that the VOTERS of Maricopa County continue to elect time, after time, after time, lawsuit, after lawsuit, after lawsuit so obviously they don’t have any problems with those cost. Why should they when Arpaio can run the Maricopa County system including the costs of lawsuits for less than others do without lawsuits and overcrowding at twice the cost. Answer: They don’t. They just keep electing him sheriff and smile.
Michael H. Smith
December 18th, 2010
3:52 pm
To tell you the truth Linda, I could go for a temporary restricted driver’s license for kids in high school until they earn a high school diploma or GED. If they drop-out, their last school of record has to notify the State Patrol, which will then revoke that temporary restricted driver’s license and notify the insurer of record of the license revocation.
Linda
December 18th, 2010
4:20 pm
Many are incarcerated because they thought they were entitled, that other people’s stuff belonged to them, other people who worked hard. Now, who does that remind me of? They were just expediting spreading the wealth around.
This starts in the sandbox. My mother knew exactly what to say when I said, “Mine! Mine!” that one time. “Mine” was what she decided was mine &, later, what I earned.
Liberals grew up without weeping willow trees in their backyards. When a branch came off & the leaves were removed, it was time to weep.
Michael H. Smith
December 18th, 2010
4:24 pm
Like Sammy Davis use to sing it: If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.
Politics to the right of Attila the Hun
December 18th, 2010
4:47 pm
Regarding all the various lawsuits filed against Joe Arpaio by the inmates. That’s just old news. Any prison commissioner or sheriff is going to have a number of frivolous lawsuits filed against him at any one time by the prisoners. Its just part of what comes with the job.
Dave
December 18th, 2010
5:14 pm
Don’t expect the current leadership of the DOC to do anything innovative. Most are good old boys to their core. If it weren’t for politics most wouldn’t be there.
killerj
December 18th, 2010
7:04 pm
Take away lively hoods and you reep what you sew,shame Goldman & Sachs gets away with the scam of the century with to many political backings,time for a third party, not only the prisons need change our whole way of thinking does.
Furious Styles
December 18th, 2010
9:51 pm
“One in 13 Georgia adults is in jail or on probation or parole. That’s the nation’s highest rate. And once inmates are released, they’re returning to prison in alarming numbers. During the past decade, two in three ex-cons have been re-arrested within three years. Something isn’t working.”
Ha! Its touted on tv and in movies that after prison an ex-con’s debt has been repaid to society, however in REAL life, that is not so. This debt continues well after release.
1.) The ability to gain employment. For the ex-con, being up front about criminal past is #1 in the process of redefining their future in a positive way. However, the brick and steel walls put up in order to find work are largely absurd and impractical which makes attempts to support oneself or supporting a family once released futile.
2.) Renting property. 50/50 chance of success renting from a private owner. You can forget about it if its a public rental agency or search firm.
Too many hoops to jump through to get back on track. Everyone’s expecting this fairytale scenario where the prisoners are released and they find a job, housing, get off drugs and live happily ever after are dreaming. As long as its setup like this, the revolving door of prison will always be open.
Soon there will be a prison on every corner and outnumber churches. Building and building prisons isn’t going to solve the problem. If they aren’t lifer’s or death row inmates, sooner or later they’ll have to be let go. The formula need some MAJOR tweaking.
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
6:27 am
Our billion dollar burden
In January, a jury acquitted Holland’s husband but convicted her. She was sentenced to 10 years in prison and will not be eligible for parole. It will cost at least $180,000, in today’s dollars, to keep her locked up.
“Is this a good deal for the taxpayers?” asked Holland’s trial attorney, Steven Harris. “Hell no. Were there other alternatives for her punishment? Of course.”
Forty percent of Georgia inmates are serving time for nonviolent crimes. Most are drug and property offenders.
http://www.ajc.com/news/government-waste/a-billion-dollar-burden-532578.html
I’m waiting for the hook Kyle, when is it going to come? hmm…
When is one of the good comrades from the leftwing extreme going to push for drug legalization, again?
Will AJC comrades Cynthia and Jay be writing OpEds to legalize Pot anytime soon? I mean with the usual Big Socialist GUB’MENT mantra of, “if we can tax it, we can control it”… “just look at all that revenue the state can collect”… and, “think of all the money we will save by reducing the prison population” ?
Liberals are too predictable.
Of course there is one other twist in the mix, probably coming from the rightwing, designed in something of a work program. Some kind of supervised buy off your the time – for the non-violent offenders – on your sentence scheme in lieu of actual prison incarceration ?
Conservatives are somewhat predictable too.
With little hope that the U.S border will be secured anytime soon, given the unlikelihood of the current President and his administration cutting off the flow of illegal drugs and people entering without authorization, including the criminal mindset that will go unchanged among some segments of our population that says, it is okay to break the law because society in some fashion probably stole prosperity from you or you wouldn’t be in your miserable predicament: Meaning, it’s okay, crime can pay and if it doesn’t, all you’ll get is free medical, three hots and a comfy cot.
It was interesting to see “who is behind bars” from this cited report that goes directly to the criminal mindset. Sadly, instead of being denounced and rejected by society as demeaning it is being promoted and embraced culturally in music and video as something honorable to emulate.
To the conservative elements cited in the referring article (Newt and Company) you might want to start a bit earlier on when touching on “changing lives”, intervening before the fact, instead of rehabilitating after the commission of a crime, however petty. People were not born thieves or drug addicts. They were taught to become such things by a society that made it all too easy for them to take what appeared the easy way out of a hard life that offered too few reasonable alternatives, other than… just say no.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
December 19th, 2010
7:50 am
The Republican Senators who voted in favor of the measure were Scott Brown (Mass.), Susan Collins (Maine), Olympia Snowe (Maine), Mark Kirk (Ill.), Lisa Murkowski (Alaska), John Ensign (Nev.), Richard Burr (N.C.) and George Voinovich (Ohio).
Need I clarify which foul new piece of legislation the usual suspects have retched up upon us? Does it even make a difference, considering that it is the same vile group that has vomited the last ten of these abominations? What do we care if we are representing Maine or not? Is it not obvious that compromise means that the few bad apples always pollute the whole barrel?
Expel these diseases, heal thyself, Republican Party.
As for you dummycrats, the children are watching you lead them astray.
Enjoy your earthly glories.
snarf
December 19th, 2010
10:15 am
I Report skipped out on his vaccinations again…
Daddee
December 19th, 2010
12:36 pm
Many prison officials are sued by inmates and very few of those suits are successful. However, Arpaio is setting records for losing these suits and is presently the subject of a federal investigation regarding this and other matters.
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
12:57 pm
Sheriff Joe Arpaio: Elected Maricopa County sheriff in 1993 and re-elected to five four-year terms.
It appears Arpaio is well liked by the people who elected him. He is obviously winning at something and doing a good job of doing it right. The federal investigation is mostly due to other matters: His tough illegal immigration crack down. Others lose less, are sued less, because they don’t have the guts to stand up and not back down in a fight against crime. ALL CRIME.
The gulag
December 19th, 2010
2:01 pm
Prison sentences are much shorter in places like Russia and in the rest of the world in general and recidivism is much lower. Why? Because the prisons are flat out horrible- so bad no one wants to go back. Here prisons are way too humane. Make prison so harsh that people won’t want to come back and you’ll definitely see a drop in the recidivism rate. At least start with no tv, then can pole these worthless animals- by that I’m talking about the hardened criminals- not the casual drug abusers. Make it not worth their while to come back.
get out much?
December 19th, 2010
2:23 pm
Sheriff Joe Arpaio under investigation by the Maricopa Board of Supervisors for financial mismanagement: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/10/31/20101031sheriff-joe-arpaio-finances-maricopa-county.html – sounds like he would fit in perfectly with Governor Elect Deal.
Daddee
December 19th, 2010
2:33 pm
Arpaio is very good at getting elected, not so good at running a jail. Many, if not most, prisoner suits are dismissed because they are frivilous. Citizens who elect sheriffs also serve on juries that consider these lawsuits.
No More Progressives!
December 19th, 2010
2:41 pm
The Right Brothers
December 18th, 2010
8:04 am
Georgia sure does have a boatload of uneducated, proverty-striken jobless bums, doesn’t it Kyle. Perhaps a tax cut is in order to create jobs and other such stuff for them. What do you think, Kyle. Educate us on where we went wrong. Was peonage the better option. After all, it’s sulf-sustaining.
It’s interesting how the limp-wristers, who’ve never met an “illegal” alien they wouldn’t educate, house, feed & clothe at my expense, suddenly want to get tough with convicts. We don’t have a war on terror, but a man caused disaster.
How can you get tough with people who’ve been given due process, yet no one wants to send a Gitmo terrorist to a Military tribunal?
Go figure.
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
4:13 pm
Oh gee, perhaps we should all wonder down to namby-pamby land and select only bleeding heart law hating bed wetting socialist liberal pantie-waste to serve on Maricopa County juries, just to make sure Joe Arpaio unconstitutionally loses all frivolous lawsuits filed against him, so these jackwagons who break the law can get their confidence back to commit another crime after all that uncomfortable justice?
Tissue… Crybaby!
Daddee
December 19th, 2010
4:22 pm
I think that you might have misunderstood. The same folks that elected Arpaio sit on the juries that award big verdicts against him. It is a shame that you have to resort to that kind of name calling when you run out of argument.
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
6:49 pm
The shame is you never had an argument.
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
7:09 pm
Once again in light of the kind of shameless insinuations you resorted to throughout this blog in support of what one can only guess is costs verses effect?
In Maricopa County, it costs $61 a day to house an inmate, yet they are holding over 4,000 more inmates than San Bernardino County where it costs $54 a day.
According to Maricopa county officials, the high cost of housing an inmate comes from the fact that they built two new jail facilities and have consistently been adding positions to handle the growing inmate population for the past five years.
Yet, Maricopa County, the fourth most populated area in America, operates under a $212 million budget, while San Bernardino County’s is upwards of $400 million.
While San Bernardino County is struggling to find room for inmates, Arpaio is hiring more officers and building more tents to handle Maricopa County’s growing inmate population, proving that he has a clear understanding of the price of public safety.
I’m sure you can produce evidence to the fact (not just your statements) that those so-called big lawsuits exceed the amount in difference between what San Bernardino County’s spends which is upwards of $400 million to that of what Maricopa County spends at $212 million? Well, are those so-called big lawsuits awarding nearly $200 million annually?
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
7:23 pm
Taxpayer Dollars Fund Luxury Detention Centers for Illegal Immigrants
E-mails obtained by the Houston Chronicle reveal that federal authorities have ordered the following changes at the holding centers for illegal immigrants: More variety in menus, fresh veggie bars, self-serve beverages, continental breakfast on weekends, movie nights, bingo, arts and crafts, dance and cooking classes, tutoring and computer training.
The facilities are also to be made more welcoming with new paint, bedding and house plants. Human rights groups think the changes are overdue, claiming that illegal immigrants should not be treated as criminals.
“We find that in the U.S., individuals are not getting speedy access to justice, not being able to apply for refugee status and that children are being locked up,” said Jared Feuer of Amnesty International.
“They should be in jail. How do we treat people stopped for DUI? Do we put them up at a Holiday Inn and give them a veggie bar?” said Michael Cutler a retired Immigration and Naturalization Service Agent.
Cutler said he thinks federal agents think the new rules send the wrong message to lawbreakers. “If you come to the U.S and violate our borders and our laws, not only should you expect them to get away with it, the alleged leaders of our country want you to be rewarded for it,” said Cutler.
The most controversial changes involve security. Letting low-risk detainees roam free in street clothes, the security downgrade has outraged many in law enforcement.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/25674402/detail.html
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
7:49 pm
The same folks that elected Arpaio sit on the juries that award big verdicts against him.
Needless to say this is a very questionable statement: If the same people that elected him were the ones sitting on the juries that award the big verdicts against him, why would these same people re-elect him, election time after election time? Obvious logical conclusion: They are not the same people and they are not the same people in number or Joe Arpaio could never be re-elected.
Shame you have to resort to making misguided statement that simple logic will not support.
Daddee
December 19th, 2010
8:18 pm
Your guess is wrong again. The point is that Arpaio is sucessfully sued by prisoners for constitutional violations more than most. Whether or not he saves money doing it is not the point of this conversation.
Daddee
December 19th, 2010
8:20 pm
Jurors are randomly selected from the voter registration roles.
Daddee
December 19th, 2010
8:22 pm
That should be voter registration “rolls”.
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
8:56 pm
Oh but of course not, the point is he doesn’t live up to your liberal views, is the reality. Then again, Arpaio is probably fighting crime more than most. Though, it wouldn’t take much crime fighting do more then the federal government has done against what Arpaio contends with on a daily bases. My guess is spot on. Courts have lost the will to punish crime as they once did in service to political correctness that has violated the Constitution’s intent more times than Arpaio and all the others combined.
Whether or not he saves money doing it is not the point of this conversation
According to you maybe, other extreme liberals probably but to the rest, I seriously doubt it.
To the point: ‘ federal authorities have ordered the following changes at the holding centers for illegal immigrants: More variety in menus, fresh veggie bars, self-serve beverages, continental breakfast on weekends, movie nights, bingo, arts and crafts, dance and cooking classes, tutoring and computer training.
The facilities are also to be made more welcoming with new paint, bedding and house plants. Human rights groups think the changes are overdue, claiming that illegal immigrants should not be treated as criminals.
“We find that in the U.S., individuals are not getting speedy access to justice, not being able to apply for refugee status and that children are being locked up,” said Jared Feuer of Amnesty International ‘…
To you and other extreme liberals this may be proper humane treatment, anything less would certainly violate the Constitution. It wouldn’t take much to be successfully sued under that view of what is Constitutional. I mean, when the paint is a week too old someone’s constitutional rights have been violated? They were given a baloney sandwich instead of a veggie bar, is now cruel and inhumane punishment?
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
9:26 pm
Daddee
December 19th, 2010
8:20 pm
Daddee
December 19th, 2010
8:22 pm
Doesn’t matter, your statement remains misguided and logically unsound. They are not the same people which was your original statement. Changing it now to the same voter roll instead makes very little. No one gets the vote of every registered voter in their bid for an elective office and they always have those who personally don’t like them with a grudge to settle. Obviously the majority in Maricopa County is satisfied with Arpaio and what he is doing despite any missteps or lost lawsuits.
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
9:34 pm
You do like trying to change things when you feel that your arguments are faltering don’t you?
First it was the big lawsuit award costs, though, this conversation is no longer about those costs. Now it is the “same voter roll” instead of the “same people”. Sooner or later you might finally come up with a valid argument with enough changes or diversions.
Daddee
December 19th, 2010
9:59 pm
Federal law enforcement, political correctness and lenient punishment imposed by the courts have nothing to do with Sheriff Arpaio’s inability to deal with prisoners in a constitutional manner as shown by the adverse verdicts against him. Nor does my view of the constitution. I can assure you that I was not on any of those juries.
Daddee
December 19th, 2010
10:21 pm
Perhaps you believe that only Arpaio’s detractors were selected to be in the jury pool. Consider the possibility that many citizens of Maricopa County may find Arpaio to generally be a good sheriff but when confronted with unconstitutional treatment of those in his custody, they are compelled to find against him.
Daddee
December 19th, 2010
10:26 pm
My arguments are not faltering but my patience is. I hope this conversation has been instructive to you in the art of argument. Try to stay on point and goodnight.
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
10:57 pm
Again this new diversion offers little to support for your argument or your obvious dislike of Arpaio. As to “many citizens”… how about a “few citizens” or those now many registered to vote citizens would find against him at the polls as well, with their ballots.
As to unconstitutional treatment of those in his custody… many law abiding citizens in this country work, if they have a job, and live in conditions worse than those locked up inmates are living in at Arpaio’s tent city, without any assurances of free medical or dental treatment should they need it.
Perhaps they should break the law just so they can improve their living standards?
If the Feds implement those order humane changes cited previously, it sure gets me to thinking and I’ll bet my thoughts have a lot shared sentiments among the thinkers.
Under those constitutionally humane living standards how soon can we check in… If it pleases the court your honor, just make sentence 99 years and a day!
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
11:04 pm
I’m laughing too hard to concentrate. The last part of that comment should have been, just make my sentence 99 years and a day!
I mean this is better than MTV, money for nothing and your chicks for free, what these liberals consider humane constitutional treatment, LOL!
Michael H. Smith
December 19th, 2010
11:12 pm
Your arguments remain pure foolishness. Sleep tight, perhaps you can patiently dream of something better to come up with for a valid argument overnight.
Billyboy
December 19th, 2010
11:37 pm
There is a solution for prisons. You should research the Louisiana State Penitentiary in Angola, LA. They found the only true solution, can you find it?
A Hearty Cheese Sauce
December 20th, 2010
9:52 am
Fire the guards and take a nightstick to the guilty prisoners. Its the only way.
Cool hand Clyde.
December 20th, 2010
10:26 am
Clyde belongs behind bars for his crimes against our language.
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 20th, 2010
10:27 am
Part of the problem is that there is no fear of punishment. I used to know a guy, now deceased, who spent most of his adult life in prison, including 11 years in one stretch. I heard him talking to somebody once and the subject of a possible 5 year sentence came up. His take on it, “Five years ain’t nothing. Hell, I can do that laying down”. That’s a large part of the problem; they have no fear of punishment.
A Hearty Cheese Sauce
December 20th, 2010
11:21 am
Prisoners should be beaten early and often. Its the only way.