New Atlanta stadium: Don’t raise the roof for Super Bowl
“No dome, no Super Bowl” in Atlanta — Norman Braman, then-chairman of the NFL’s Super Bowl selection committee, 1989
“… we could not overcome the prejudice of the owners’ vote concerning the 2000 ice storm” the last time the Super Bowl was in Atlanta — Gary Stokan, president of the Atlanta Sports Council, in a 2005 memo
“The [Super Bowl] is meant to be played in the elements” — Roger Goodell, commissioner of the NFL, 2010
Which of these statements does not belong?
There are any number of reasons to oppose using tax revenues to build a second downtown stadium for professional football. First and foremost, there are far more pressing needs for the several million dollars a year in Atlanta hotel taxes that will be freed up when the Georgia Dome is paid off. (Our GOP-dominated Legislature and Republican governor apparently thought otherwise this spring when they approved a 30-year extension of the tax to pay for a new stadium.)
There may also be reasons to support the new facility. Bringing the Super Bowl back to Atlanta isn’t one of them. That goes double after the NFL’s double-speak last week.
For years, Atlantans were told we needed a domed — read: bad-weather-proof — stadium to land the Super Bowl. Then a rare ice storm hit during the second one played here, in 2000. The game hasn’t returned since.
Now, we’re supposed to believe that the problem is our lack of a stadium that would expose players and fans to the same “elements” that have scared off the NFL for more than a decade. Which is it, fellas?
It’s fairly obvious that the NFL’s “elements” talk is all about boosting the Falcons’ bid for a new home. Because the history of the game beyond Atlanta doesn’t support the commissioner’s “elements” claim.
Thirteen of the 44 Super Bowls to date have been played indoors. Of the other 31, just eight have been played farther north than Atlanta: seven in and around that “northern” city of Los Angeles, and one near San Francisco. The last of these eight took place in 1993.
Twice the Super Bowl has been played in a stadium with a retractable roof. On neither occasion was the roof kept open for the game. (During one of them it was raining, but rain must represent the wrong kind of “elements” for championship football.) Three of the next four Super Bowls, the only future games whose sites have been determined so far, will be played in stadiums with roofs.
The exception is the 2014 game outside New York City. NFL owners approved that game site for the novelty factor of staging their big game in the Big Apple, and in spite of their meteorological misgivings. In any case, one game does not make a trend.
Nor is it likely that an Atlanta with two football stadiums could attract many more football games — and the fans who fill our hotels and restaurants while in town to witness them — than the city attracts now.
We already have the Southeastern Conference title game (moved here from an outdoor stadium in Birmingham because of — wait for it — “the elements”). We already have the Chick-fil-A Bowl (which moved from the great outdoors of old Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium to a brand-new Georgia Dome faster than you can say “Eat mor chikin”) and, soon, two preseason college games. Plus, of course, two college football programs, another one just up the road, and an NFL franchise.
So, maybe a second stadium gets us a couple of Super Bowls and, in the rosiest scenario imaginable, some opening-round games in a single soccer World Cup.
In which case I’d tell the NFL to play its big game in somebody else’s elements. We’ll watch it on TV, thanks.
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87 comments Add your comment
A Hearty Cheese Sauce
November 18th, 2010
1:15 pm
Perhaps they could sell tickets to the Charlie Rangel/Maxine Waters Incarceration Festival. I anti-up $75.00 per ticket to see those losers tossed behind bars.
Swede Atlanta
November 18th, 2010
2:21 pm
Neither Rangel nor Waters committed a federal crime unlike Tommy Boy Delay. So I suggest we sell tickets when he does the perp walk for his felony conviction.
nelson
November 18th, 2010
2:21 pm
Syracuse has a domed stadium. They get a lot more then football under the roof. Basketball, Syracuse has the largest on campus atendance of any school. They also get some big name bands. Cannot go wrong with a domed stadium. Syracuse has a misery climate. As I recall, the stadium brought in 30 million profit from basketball. That means they can afford to pay some rather outrageous salaries like several million for Greg Robinson[football] and got a half dozen victories over several years.
I’ve been to Atlanta, there is a whopper population down there that would support a great basketball team. It is a little too crowded for me, I like space.
Soooooo much for all that. Why not ask the government to build it, or Donald Trump, he could have the whole operation online in a year or two. He is a wheeler dealer, he would be in and out of Atlanta before you could say geewhiz.
Swede Atlanta
November 18th, 2010
2:30 pm
Totally opposed to a drop of taxpayer money going to fund a new stadium. NFL is a private enterprise. The Falcons and/or whoever else might want to go in with them on a new stadium can finance it just like everyone else does. They can be the ones liable if for some reason the deal goes south or they can’t repay the debt. Enough of welfare for corporations!!!
Corporations generate generational welfare families. Once they get on the public dole they just keep taking it generation after generation, company after company. They need to get a job.
Intown
November 18th, 2010
3:24 pm
Kyle – I’m a left-of-center, pro-intown, pro-immigration, pro-stimulus, pro-Obama reader … and I’m with you on this one!
hryder
November 18th, 2010
4:34 pm
Do the number on out of town/state visitors as Seattle. Excessive taxes were placed on lodging, rental cars, airplane tickets, etc., with proceeds dedicated to the debts incurred for new stadia and arena several years ago. We enjoyed visiting every other year until the year we were forced to pay these taxes and refuse to return and pay what should be paid by the people who directly benefit from activities at such facilities. My reasoning indicates that these privately owned and promoted activities should be paid for by the people who will monetarily benefit from income generated at these sites and activities. Also, While residing in Houston, Texas, we experienced the cost of parking at the original dome move from zero cost to $10, with increases gradually to the $10, and these funds did not go to Harris County. The funds went to the people putting on the activity even though Harris Country had footed the tab for the entire complex. Just a few random thoughts on how to view where money disappears.
winkasdad29
November 18th, 2010
5:11 pm
The most recent Super Bowls have been given to cities with stadiums built in the last 10 years (Houston, Detroit, Glendale, AZ, Tampa, Arlington, TX, and Indianapolis). All Goodell was saying was that if Atlanta wants a Super Bowl, it must compete by building a new state of the art staduim.
A retractable roof would be the way to go because more events can be held. I would like to see Arthur Blank and the state partner (with the state not paying anymore than it does now) to raze the Georgia Dome and build the new staduim in the same place.
Having two stadiums is not practical. The stadium belongs downtown. Maybe it would help spur positive development downtown.
DamYankee
November 18th, 2010
7:46 pm
Jeez, I’m talking to myself! Here’s the e-mail I shot off to WSB after seeing their piece on Goodell’s little extortion scheme:RE: your story on a new stadium for Atlanta this AM – I think Goodell’s timing is questionable. Is now a good time to try to extort municipalities into building new stadiums with a possible shot at the Super Bowl? Cities are struggling to meet basic needs in this shot economy, and in spite of promises to the contrary, no stadium has ever been built without at least some public funding. Is Jerry Jones’ monument to excess in Irving to be the new standard? Despite his claims, that stadium will cost Dallas/Irving TX millions if not hundreds of millions over the years, and claims of economic benefit to the community are at least distorted and exaggerated if not outright lies. Just what Atlanta needs, million dollar luxury suites, martini bars, go-go dancer cages etc., all to attract a game that the ordinary citizens can’t afford to attend and that will more than likely result in a steep increase in season ticket prices. If Arthur wants to pull out his checkbook, and maybe get help from the NFL, fine. But funding via a hotel/motel tax or any other tax is outright thievery and if local officials fall for it they are as culpable as the pirates themselves. Tax revenue from any source should be used to fund basic services in the city/state that are now being slashed. Just another example of the frightening and infuriating disconnect from reality that the wealthy are exhibiting of late. “Boo-hoo, if taxes on my millions go up I can’t afford that luxury suite that will sit vacant during half the Falcon’s home games.” At least have the integrity to avoid cheerleading this crap and give the public an honest assessment of the funding schemes that will be jammed down our throats.
Nobody would ever call me a conservative, but I applaud the AJC’s decision to give you the editorial spot, I got real tired of Wooten’s knee-jerk “me and my little band of right-wingers” spiel but I find myself agreeing with your column way too often. Just don’t tell any of my lefty musician friends!
Vick Vaporized
November 19th, 2010
7:24 am
We lost our chance for a stadium, the Lombardi Trophy, and the hot chearleaders that go with it when we rid ourselves of Vick. It was all of you who bungled it. You stupid fatheads. You clumsy judgemental fools. You…..augh….sniffle….sigh.
joe
November 19th, 2010
7:43 am
Don’t you love the way these loser politicians fund these stadiums with rental car, hotel & whatever taxes that the can find. They say “Hey, we aren’t raising the citizens taxes, these are being paid by tourists & business travelers”
Oh yeah any new tax is a bad tax. Have you ever wondered why when you go to a hotel or rent a car either locally or when you’re travelling that that $149/ night hotel rate ends up being close to $200. That’s real productive for the economy & future travel, yea right.
Dag
November 19th, 2010
7:54 am
I don’t care about the Super Bowl. I just know that this is the South and it makes no sense to not be playing football outdoors. The environment of a game in the Dome is sterile. Elements make football more interesting. If Green Bay and Buffalo can have outdoor stadiums, why can’t we? If you’ve been to games both indoors and outdoors, you know what I mean. This is a game for outdoors. Here’s hoping to see many Falcon players pulling grass out of their faceguards at home games in the future!
Who Cares?
November 19th, 2010
7:55 am
What Swede Atlanta said on November 18th, 2010 at 2:30 pm! You get it! NO TAX DOLLARS! If the overpaid and overprivileged want a new playground, let them pay for it. If funding is dependent on tax payer dollars, forget it. The government’s broke anyway. If private business wants something to increase their profits, they need to fund it. It’s not the tax payers obligation nor responsibility to fund private business. For those who want to argue that point, let me know where the line starts, cause I need money for growing my private business too!
A Hearty Cheese Sauce
November 19th, 2010
8:15 am
Rangel cries like a little girl…LOL!! Ya…he is sorry he was caught like most of these thugs on TV.
Jimmy Poo
November 19th, 2010
8:19 am
I must say that I would prefer to watch a football game outdoors, meanwhile I could understand why the Dome is so important in this state…due to other events such as NCAA Basketball, Monster Jam, Wrestlemania, World Class Soccer, Motorcross, etc…. The Dome gives us an advantage but I would love to see a true Football Stadium in this city..but at what (tax payer) cost???
Jimmy Poo
November 19th, 2010
8:35 am
And while on the subject of Super Bowls, we must also consider Atlanta’s overall (newly found) infrastructure, cities such as Miami and New Orleans capture several Super Bowls because their cities are built for tourism and have good party/tourism districts and (a body of water helps as well). I would love to see Atlanta and the rest of the metro area increase the public transportation (trains) and to build a real party/tourism district such as a bourbon street…. Yes, it takes time and money but we need to find a way to attract tourists to the city without all of the hassles (traffic), remember when NBA All Star Week last came here? It was an absolute NIGHTMARE!!!!! Sidewalks, better public transportation, better Management, Better ELECTED OFFICIALS! is what this city Really needs!!!!!!
Steve
November 19th, 2010
8:39 am
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the Georgia Dome. Sure, it may not be all glitzy like Dallas, but it gets the job done.
Quite frankly, if politician in Atlanta is stupid enough to ask to the taxpayers to float another sales tax hike to fund a new dome in this economy they should all be taken out and beaten.
We can’t pay our firefighters, police, teachers and public service workers yet we can talk abotu building a new dome. RIDICULOUS!
I love sports and I am a huge Falcons fan, but I could care absolutely zilch for the Super Bowl being held in the ATL. A handful of local vendors make some money off the game and merchandise, but the majority of the big money winners have next to nothing to do with the city.
Just say NO to a new dome and Super Bowl. This ‘new stadium’ every 15 years nonsense has to stop.
Dano
November 19th, 2010
8:45 am
Very good book on the subject
Field of Schemes: How the Great Stadium Swindle Turns Public Money into Private Profit
Goldie
November 19th, 2010
8:52 am
“Rangel cries like a little girl…LOL!! Ya…he is sorry he was caught like most of these thugs on TV.”
LOL — reminds me of Nathan Deal’s problems while in Congress… got ethics???
Dano
November 19th, 2010
8:52 am
Keep up to date on the latest
http://www.fieldofschemes.com
A Hearty Cheese Sauce
November 19th, 2010
8:53 am
Its been along time coming for that crook Rangel and Waters…finally!!!
NO JUH-TIS, NO PEAS!
Marshal
November 19th, 2010
9:11 am
If Arthur Blank needs a new home for HIS team, let HIM build it. I don’t want a dime of my money going towards building a stadium to house some billionaire’s investment.
Melvin
November 19th, 2010
9:11 am
We don’t need to be throwing all that government money away on some sorry football stadium!
We need to be giving all that money to Obama Supporters so they won’t be forced to have to work for a living and they focus their evenings on their smash-and-grab hobbies and their days on just KEEPING IT REAL!
Praise Your Name, President Obama!!!!!!!!!!!
SAY NO to a NEW STADIUM!
November 19th, 2010
9:14 am
New stadiums don’t bring in jobs or revive neighborhoods. As a resident of Mechanicsville I can tell you first hand that Turner Field has only prevented growth in our stadium communities. There are several reasons for this…
1. They need room for parking. This need for parking is only exacerbated because investors buy houses and land around the stadium for parking. Most of these houses then sit vacant and uncared for.
2. Taxes. If the price of the land and taxes go up, it makes the land desirable and forces the Stadium to look elsewhere.
3. The wealthy don’t give a damn about giving back to the communities they demolish. It’s not a race thing, it’s a class thing.
SAY NO to a NEW STADIUM!
November 19th, 2010
9:15 am
Enter your comments hereNew stadiums don’t bring in jobs or revive neighborhoods. As a resident of Mechanicsville I can tell you first hand that Turner Field has only prevented growth in our stadium communities. There are several reasons for this…
1. They need room for parking. This need for parking is only exacerbated because investors buy houses and land around the stadium for parking. Most of these houses then sit vacant and uncared for.
2. Taxes. If the price of the land and taxes go up, it makes the land desirable and forces the Stadium to look elsewhere.
3. The wealthy don’t give a damn about giving back to the communities they demolish. It’s not a race thing, it’s a class thing.
A Hearty Cheese Sauce
November 19th, 2010
10:44 am
Agreed…NO NEW STADIUM!!
Ogeechee Dawg
November 19th, 2010
11:48 am
Enter your comments here
MrATL
November 19th, 2010
11:51 am
The author of this article, Kyle Wingfield, is obviously not a sports fan. He nonchalantly disposes of the ideas of bringing the Superbowl and World Cup to our city like they are amateur. These are two of the biggest sporting events in the World. Atlanta is a proud city and I believe we would be honored to showcase our city on a world’s stage such as the Superbowl and World Cup. There would be many benefits to hosting such events.
Ogeechee Dawg
November 19th, 2010
11:51 am
1. Keep GA DOME for another 5 years – then start looking at retractable roof facility.
2. ACC championship game belongs in Charlotte.
3. GT belongs in the SEC!!!!
– Expand league to 14 teams – adding TX A&M and TECH
OR
– Allow Arkansas to B12 – replace with GT – move KY to SEC WEST
4. ATL and the region need to focus on infrastructure – roads, water supply – and schools – while keeping taxes as low as possible.
Kyle Wingfield
November 19th, 2010
11:58 am
MrATL: You couldn’t be more wrong about my not being a sports fan. And I have no problem with having the Super Bowl or the World Cup in Atlanta…I just don’t think those events are worth spending tax revenues to build a new stadium.
James
November 19th, 2010
12:01 pm
We don’t need a new Dome all the Georgia Dome need is to be renovated.
Ogeechee Dawg
November 19th, 2010
12:01 pm
Mr.ATL – While I agree with your civic pride – would love to see the World Cup come to ATL……but would NOT build an open air facility for the purposes of World Cup.
IF the State of Georgia is going to make such a committment – We would need a retractable roof facility that would be in competition to do the following:
1. Keep the Falcons happy with good revenue stream.
2. Keep the SEC Championship game in the ATL
3. Keep Peach Bowl and Chick-fil-A kickoff classic.
4. Be in competition for NCAA basketball tournament – regionals or final 4.
5. Be attached to GA World Congress Center to use for special events, concerts, etc.
6. Location of Dome is good – need to buy more property around the dome for outdoor parking and figure out ways to widen streets for traffic.
I was originally against the DOME – as I love outdoor football. However, going to my first DOME event years and years ago – a Falcons game – it was pouring down rain – and being at the DOME was just FANTASTIC.
Since then, I have been to several SEC Championship games, basketball games and Falcon games – and to me – the DOME is part of the event!!
Fulton County Resident
November 19th, 2010
12:25 pm
Kelly in the PTC – I hope you run your golf cart into an oncoming bus.
Ogeechee Dawg
November 19th, 2010
12:34 pm
SAY NO to New Stadium….. hear what you are saying.
However, Here is reality and trivia for you:
1. Reality – Stadiums need to be located near highways to help with flow. Intersecting Highways is ideal.
Trivia: Mayor Ivan Allen pitched the site of where Fulton County Stadium is to Charlie Finley of the Kansas City A’s.
KC A’s were looking to move – and the reason why ATL got the Braves was because the Team Presidents voted against moving the A’s to Atlanta. Finley told Allen – you build that stadium in that location – ATL will get franchise.
Finley knew the Braves were looking to leave Milwaukee – and he knew if the stadium was built – he could pursuade MLB and the National League to move to ATL.
2. Tivia: Billy Payne wanted to build “Turner” field at it’s current location – thinking that it would do less harm to the total community – and level Fulton County Stadium for parking. Payne thought that the NEW stadium would benefit the city and the Braves without incurring HUGE debt to get a first class baseball facility and less impact to existing community as most of the traffic infrastructure was in place.
Beautification projects for the area were included in the initial plans.
TRIVIA – However, the plans to build at the current site were criticized by the “race and welfare politicians” as this gave them an opportunity to empower themselves with an issue. Payne was called a racist for picking that site.
Billy Payne looked to move Olympic stadium to the Atlantic Steel site. However, there were huge concerns about the cost to clean up Atlantic Steel site and potential cost over runs. As such – the same “RACE and WELFARE” politicians now called Payne a racist for denying the opportunity to develop the area – if a new stadium would be placed – where it currently is now situated. The race and welfare politicians almost blew it.
Atlantic Station was built on the old Atlantic Steel location.
3. As nostalgic as we are – Mechanicsville came to be because of it’s location to the Railroad hub – that is how it got it’s name. But the neighborhood has fallen on hard times as it is no longer the main suburb to a new and small city called Atlanta.
Bill Campbell
November 19th, 2010
12:38 pm
Nobody wants to drive downtown to that crime infested ghetto!
Maureen
November 19th, 2010
1:07 pm
For a city and state in financial distress, Kasim and his new friend, Sonny, sure have some big ideas on how to put us further into debt.
MrHughes
November 19th, 2010
1:10 pm
I’ve been a season ticket holder for the Falcons the last 9 years. What kills me is that most people who speak ill of the Georgia Dome have not likely been to as many Falcons games in their lifetimes as I go to in a year. I’m sick and tired of this John Madden football is meant to be played outside garbage. The gameday experience at Fulton County Stadium (an outdoor venue) was horrible. Half the summer you fry outside like bacon in a pan and in the winter you froze like nuts hidden for the winter. It wasn’t ideal. The Georgia Dome is 70 and you can go in jeans and a tshirt whenever you want! The Georgia Dome is profitable unlike the large majority of outdoor stadiums that sit empty for 340 days of the year (95%). I went to school in New England and went to many football games. If freezing your butt off outside is not fun in November, then it’s not fun in February either. In Greenbay the town owns the team and is much more of an exception rather than the norm. Buffalo is doing so great outdoors that they are talking about moving the team to Toronto.
Above all, tough economic times demand fiscal responsability. There’s nothing wrong with the Dome. And, the Dome isn’t even paid off yet! Georgia Dome 2.0 will be built with a retractable roof at the current site when Georgia Dome 1.0 is paid off and the economy is in a better place.The Falcons will play at Stanford Stadium/Grant Field for a year or two. Talking about this sounds is the epitome of irresponsible.
The GM site makes no sense! It’s not connected to Marta and is not adjacent to 3 interstates or the netowork of streets downtown like the Georgia Dome. Where’s the hotel or convention space that one would need to host the activities that go with a Superbowl, SEC Championship game, NCAA tourney, or Wrestlemania? And, the area… yea, I’d love to go to a game next to car dealerships and a Brandsmart USA. Sounds classy.
catlady
November 20th, 2010
7:00 pm
This is a way for some of our “leaders” to make money they desperately need to improve their bottom lines. Nothing less. Let the owner of the team pay for it; he can raise ticket prices if he likes. NOT ONE CENT from the taxpayers, unless they volunteer to pay for it via higher ticket prices!