Year after year, our culture of dependence grows

Why would I not feel some sort of dependency on a government who has taken over 25% of my paycheck for the past 45 years? For that much money, I’d want something back…like my social security and police and fire protection. The tea party seems to think that if you are not a middle-class working American with a guaranteed steady job, you’re simply a slouch that refuses to work and will sponge off society. And if you fall, why ever would you need a safety net?

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Since corporate subsidies are not listed as one of their components, I’m guessing that the Heritage Foundation does not think that the corporations are not dependent on the government. However, anytime someone mentions doing away with such subsidies, oil and gas for instance, there’s all kinds of arguments to support the need for them. Sounds like dependence to me, just like we’re dependent on OPEC for our oil. When they account for that dependence as well, I’ll believe in their research.

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Allyanaz:

There is a big difference between governmental services such as police and fire protection, which benefit everyone, and programs which redistribute income, which take from some people and give what is taken to others.

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Here Here…just confirms the uneducated masses prefer to remain that way.

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programs which redistribute income, which take from some people and give what is taken to others.

Sounds like a company that sells a product, then pays dividends to stockholders. Redistibution is relative.

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Forget “since 1962.” More and more, I’m hearing echoes of the Eisenhower years in the cries of the Tea Partiers and the Heritage Foundation—years when there was a very small safety net, and years when a school classmate of mine lived alone in a tarpaper shack on a cold hillside.

Feel free to move to some country where you can roam the jungle with a club and slug it out for the basic necessities. I’ll take what we have now, rather than the law of the jungle that the Tea Partiers, libertarians, and extreme conservatives want, thank you very much.

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arnold- Is there no longer a place for compassion?

It’s not the governments job to be compasionate, it’s your job. Stop abdicating your responsibility (and giving away our freedoms in the process).

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JKL2

October 21st, 2010
8:27 am

“It’s not the governments job to be compasionate, it’s your job. Stop abdicating your responsibility (and giving away our freedoms in the process).”

We are the government. It is our choice.

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arnold- We are the government. It is our choice.

Actually the Constitution is pretty specific in what the government is allowed to do. It’s a shame people like our president spend all their time looking for loopholes and ways to get around it rather than just following what it says.

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First, this notion of the tea party as a “grass roots” movement is hogwash. Its a billionaire funded operation to gut regulation and lower taxes that would benefit said billionaires … the Koch Brothers. The only grass roots is grass roots stupidity and people acting like sheep believing everything they are told…and believing The Heritage Foundation which is funded by who? The Koch Brothers and Koch Industries that want to pay no taxes and pollute our environment without fear of any financial penalty. They are also funding Freedom Works as well as 10s of other “conservative” think tanks…just follow the money. These studies are written to provide the results they want…bottom line, fact. The New Yorker expose on the Koch guys was a real eye opener…you should all read it

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jt

October 21st, 2010
7:33 am
The former United Soviet States of Russia had the same problem.

need to get your terms straight.

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@BO
That net seems to be catching Jill right about now in her free fall…bet she is glad its there

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The number #1 reason why our country is going to he!! in a hand basket and is in such trouble today. Our system just cannot support that many freeloaders. And in today’s society, those who are the “supported” ones actually feel entitled to that aid, instead of it being a temporary means to get them back to being self supportive. Add to that the piling on of illegal aliens who are here taking from the pot without putting anything of substance back in and the problem just gets that much worse. That is why the Tea Party has traction and somethings gotta give. Vote GOP next month to help turn this tide and get the job growth we need.

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And dependence on government and government actions dips into the social issues. Millions want the Federal government to “fix” the same sex marriage issue. The Defense of marriage Act Clinton signed was a dependence on the central government to fix a perceived social issue.
I spent all summer listening to millions bitch because Obama did not clean up the oil spill in two weeks. Now, once again, there are calls for reducing taxes to stimulate jobs. Who first said it was the governments job to create jobs?

Americans are now glued to central government action. And as long as both the Republican and Democratic parties encourage that dependence, it will just continue to grow.

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There was a time when people worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. There was no insurance, no vacation time, no Food and Drug Admn. no licensing for Doctors and Dentists, etc. It is deeply disturbing to realize that for many conservative leaders, those were considered the best of times. It is even worse to realize they would take all of us back to those kind of times in a second if they could.

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Let them take their welfare check home after a month in the labor camp. Two birds, one stone.

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Should have proofread my last post, yikes! Read before send!

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This actually has to do with Kyle hemorrhage about his checking fees yesterday.

Kyle, you base your entire argument against the bill – set up to protect consumers on this one side effect? Checking fees?

A bank is a business and like any other business it does what it has to do to stay in business. In the current state of the “market” of banking, one option available for the banks to make money is to raise fees.

What they are doing – which you can’t seem to comprehend – is diverting any “public anger” to the federal government to take eyeballs and anguish off their act of raising fees. They don’t want the public mad at them for raising fees; they want the public mad at someone else – banks, democrats, people who use mousse in their hair, whoever is available!

This is a case of a company doing what it has to do to stay in business but not having the balls to take the blame for their actions. They are whining and pointing fingers at the government.

This is like all those who realize Republicans are about to vote into office a bunch of idiots/tea partiers/un-ethical people. But they vote for them anyway while whining about Democrats and shifting all blame to the pelosi/reid/obama camp. There is no personal responsibility for pushing that button in the election booth.

If your cell phone company starts charging a fee for a service you use what are you going to do? Blame the government? Yep. Typical republicans. Don’t bother finding a new carrier, don’t bother renegotiating your contract. Nah…just blame the government.

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Year after year, our culture of dependence grows

duh! And if we continue to elect officials who enact policies that kill off the middle class, we are going to see more and more dependent on other.

Keep allowing the wealthy to siphon money off the middle class. Yeah, that will help everyone! And when the wealthy have all the money they can offer us jobs at minimum wage with no benefits (their dream come true)! Yeah, we won’t be dependent at all at that point!

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AmV

That’s not dependence. It’s only dependence when it’s the poor who are on welfare. The rich are not dependent. (sarc)

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Richard Dawson

Any dumber than you coping the name of a tv gameshow host??? Life is full of choices. Just face it.

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“And when the wealthy have all the money they can offer us jobs at minimum wage with no benefits (their dream come true)! ”

Not exactly correct Finn McCool….they want to abolish minimum wages. Better yet, they want to ship our jobs overseas. The Chamber of Commerce, who is spending large amounts of money to unseat Democrats while hiding where their funding is coming from, has been hosting forums on how to ship our jobs overseas.

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“Sounds like a company that sells a product, then pays dividends to stockholders. Redistibution is relative.”

Its called Capitalism my friend and the incentive for investing in such companies is a return on your investment. Then again being an Obama follower you would not know of such except with regard to welfare, foodstamps etc.

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Kyle, when I have the Masters degree and can get a job washing dishes – for a meal and maybe a couple of dollars – I will have it made in the shade!

Who needs benefits? who needs health care? That might cost the wealthy folks too much money. They don’t need me healthy when they can just grab another graduate-school educated guy for the same price. just work em until they drop and then grab another one off the corner!

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“programs which redistribute income, which take from some people and give what is taken to others.
Sounds like a company that sells a product, then pays dividends to stockholders. Redistribution is relative.”

What an unbelievable lack of thought, insight, effort and brain power.

One is voluntary, the other is not.

Keepin’ it real simple for a simpleton. Jeez, this place is so screwed.

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“Millions for charity, but not one penny for tribute”

Obama would do well to learn that phrase and it meaning.

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My redistribution is actually doing quite well. The companies that I have an interest in get plenty of business from me. I’m still waiting for someone to explain how capitalism works without money being redistributed through the chain.

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scott- Its a billionaire funded operation

George Soros says “What?”

At least the Kochs are American, not a foreign interest.

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SC, that would be impossible and/or a excercise in futility as you refuse to listen and bask in the glow of being contrary.

Best of luck to you my friend.

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Tea party became concerned about the country when Obama became President.

Gee wizz I wonder why. All this time they were never concerned but now they are?

wow. unbelievable. the country is full of fools who can’t read nor perform simple math.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/us_beats_street_mAXnoMeDhbQgAWomyuJX1H

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I’m an active listener. I also understand there are different forms of redistribution. In my line of work, I come across people who also work in foreign countries. If one does not wish to pay taxes, there are alternatives. Therefore, paying taxes is not a “forced” action. It is just a voluntary as paying for a product. I also know enough about other countries that I don’t mind paying taxes to live here in the US.

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I jest got my EBT card reloaded today. Git er done! Oh, and thanks gubment!

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“Tea party became concerned about the country when Obama became President.”

Or one might state

Tea party became concerned about the Country when the Country became non-concerned about its citizens.

Or

Tea party became concerned when the Dems began to implement one-sided, bankrupting legistlation and procdures ie ObamaCare.

Or

Or

Or…

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j

I won’t argue with you there. That’s some pretty shady stuff that I wouldn’t put any money into. To me, an investment is just that. I invest with the hope that it will create more wealth, not disappear into some black hole in wall street, move from account to account to account, and emerge somewhere else with 5% tacked on.

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Several have mentioned the Koch brothers this morning. Consider the source of the article accordingly, but read a short yet chilling account of their agenda — follow the links too. Everything is footnoted. You can’t make this stuff up.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/10/20-4

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This is how I think the situation with government dependency regarding working-age adults should be handled.

1. Loss of some civil rights while on the dole, especially voting.
2. Mandatory birth control.
3. If single & no children, mandatory, single sex group housing.
4. Absolutely no alcohol or drug use, frequent testing
5. Physical labor cleaning the streets or something similar. We are already paying to feed, house, and clothe them, the should be made to perform some work for the money.

Basically, we should be compassionate for those in difficult straits through no fault of thier own, however we should give tough love to the remainder.

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Scott
I do expect this one sided stupidity from you lefties, so tell which billionaire has spent over 300 million to make 529 groups, websites and donation to ONLY democrats? George Soros, but why don’t you mention him in you loser tirade? Better yet what president received over 100 million in overseas contributions to his campaign? Obozo…
So why is it OK for the democrats?

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@A Hearty Cheese Sauce,

Exactly, they changed some rules…to protect the consumer. They did not eliminate fees. What they did is tell the banks they cannot charge hidden fees. For instance, before banks would automatically cover the purchases made on debit cards if there were insufficient funds in the account and then charge a fee without the consumer knowing it. So a $2 cup of coffee could cost the consumer $35 or more. They are still allowed to do it but the consumer has to opt it, being fully aware of it. If the consumer does not opt in, then they transaction is denied.

Of course, some big banks are eliminating “free checking” accounts. A spokeswoman for Bank of America has said there never really was free checking due to the fees banks charged. Notice, it’s only the large banks that have been eliminating “free checking” accounts. If you believe in free enterprise and competition this can lead to people moving their money from the large banks to smaller banks which do not charge outrageous fees. Competition can kick in and force some of the large banks into being more competitive. Competition doesn’t only happen in regulation free environments.

They have also raised interest rates on credit cards and will tell the consumer it’s due to new federal regulations. This is false. I still have a credit card with a fixed rate of 4.9% through a credit union. Competition works, I moved my accounts to a credit union which offers lower interest on credit cards, higher interest on my savings and less fees than the large banks.

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LukasATL,

A hearty “Heil Hitler!” to you this morning!

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Wealth is CREATED

So, what you’re saying is that there is some wealth fairy sprinkles pixie dust and money just appears out of nowhere? I understand what you’re saying about wealth being created. However, you can create all the value in the product that you want to. Until someone PURCHASES the product, there is nothing. That purchaser is what allows you to gain your dividend.

On the second half of your statement, you acknowledge some benefit to what the government does. It may not create wealth as a primary benefit, but do you think Kia, Hyundai, or others would bring investments to this area if we were overrun by homeless and other negative stuff?

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Tea party became concerned about the Country when the Country became non-concerned about its citizens.

Or

—
You probably meant federal government rather than country the second time you mentioned country.

this should have happened when the previous guy lied and got the country in a war. Don’t remember any tea party folks running around complaining.

Do tea party members refuse to cash their social security checks each month?

FYI the feds (D or R) have never been concerned with the citizens just big business and maintaining the power structure.

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Southern Comfort

I would call the wealth fairy my time and work. If you invest time and work into something, you can create utility and wealth.

I don’t have to sell something to have created wealth. If I’m a caveman and I took a good stick and sharpened it into a spear, I have, in a way, become more wealthy. I can use said stick to multiplicatively impact how much I can eat. I don’t have to sell it to another caveman to realize its worth.

And so what if somebody purchases it? That person wouldn’t purchase it unless the deal were mutually beneficial. That person has become more wealthy themselves.

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SoCo- Money has to be redistributed for defense, securing the border, and other essential government functions

We can always debate ways to save money. The government is too big of an organization to operate efficiently. Congress is still operating under the assumption “here’s a problem, let’s throw a checkbook at it and make it go away”. That worked for a while, but now we’re out of money and have little to show for what we spent.

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“Tea party became concerned about the Country when the Country became non-concerned about its citizens.”

Are you talking about the tea party financed by very large “small businesses” who do to eliminate all regulations, pay no taxes and ship our jobs overseas. That’s showing concerns for it’s citizens.

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The natural extension of a culture of dependence is a culture of taking. Envy, anger and judgmentalism are just window dressing to justify taking from the productive to give to the unproductive. As the dependence grows, the taking must grow too.

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@TINSTAAFL

You have the right to sue the Federal Government to eliminate all welfare programs. Take it all the way to the supreme court.

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One in five Americans — 64.3 million people — relies on government handouts to fulfill basic needs for housing, food and/or health care. – Of course, this number is much higher now after the great recession, which was caused by Republican policies removing regulation on markets, corporate greed and excesses, and a dramatic shift of personal wealth to the top 1% in this country.

Of course, it’s never a good idea to look too closely at the numbers, is it Kyle?

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Maybe Kyle should look at the numbers of dependent people before the Great Depression and Roosevelt. That’s about the time when the middle class began taking off.

During the 80’s we started dismantling the middle class and look where we are now.

Kyle, where do you think elderly people lived after their working years were over? They moved in with their kids! Social Security and wider use of pensions and retirement plans made it possible for them to live on their own. (So you have a need for two houses instead of one – boom, now you have a housing industry!)

Even pat Buchanan understands the need for a thriving middle class. We can’t continue pushing all our money up to the wealthy people.

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@J-The tea party movement started once BO started passing quazi-socialist policies on healhcare, bailouts, etc. These policies weren’t born of ANY other administration in the past, republican nor democrat. Once we saw where BO was trying to take the country (in the direction of France and/or Canada) people woke up. Thats why after the elections next month, the GOP will be back in charge, followed by the white house in 2012.

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KW, once you establish (as Citizens United case confirmed) there is no difference between corporate citizens (special interests) and individual citizens (we the People), this all makes sense. as has been noted by yours truly, and others; corporations and other special interests (unions, religious organizations, non-profits, etc.) are all very needy and DEPEND on the federal government in order to survive. as I have said many times, is there a difference between wealth redistribution when it flows through the DoD into the private sector cofferd of Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman or Blackwater/XE, and the wealth that flows through the poor and the unemployed, but eventually ends up as revenue on the balance sheets of ADM, Bank of America, Kroger, Coca Cola or Miller Coors; or wealth that flows through the sick, elderly, indigent (and those pesky anchor babies), but eventually comes to rest at Pfizer, Merck, or Kaiser-Permanente? I find it interesting that Christine O’Connell is both venerated by the Tea Party, and villified by everyone else as an icon of the movement. She is a short-sighted, soundbite-driven, shallow and ignorant, intellectual infant, who extrapolates facts/information to form hybrid fact/fiction myths, fairy tales and fabels, which she then presents as truth. even more bizarre his her (and most of the tea party) penchant for stating the obvious (’no separation of church and state in the first amendment”) as if she is a Constitutional scholar or authority (which is really ironic, because much of the tea party movement are flat earth zealots who eschew the observations of “academics” and “intellectuals”.). the tea party’s greatest liability (as evidenced by O’Connell and her fellow dimwitted floosie, Sarah Palin), is its habit of parsing words and issues; and sellectively interpreting the Constitution (or claiming to know the intentions/motives of the Founding Fathers, which interesting enough, was devoid of “Mama Grizzlies”). and this is no more evident in the tea party movements refusal to acknowledge corporate welfare or out of control DoD spending as complicent in this current mess.

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Couldn’t agree with you more, Kyle. Right here in Georgia, we’ve got a leading candidate for governor who’s looking to depend on the state for a place to live. Why? Because he’s got to sell his home in order to pay for his long history of terrible business and financial decisions.

The entitlement mentality is absolutely disgusting.

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“We can’t continue pushing all our money up to the wealthy people.”

And on Nov. 2 we will be taking significant steps to get the criminals in Washington out of office and put an end to the looting of our Treasury for the benefit of a few wealthy people.

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Thanks Kyle. Great column.

ROLL THE STATE BACK! There’s so much corruption in government largely because government controls so much money. Less money for the gov’t, less corruption, better economy. Its a virtuous cycle if the morons in Washington can ever figure it out. But the gatekeepers rarely like to take down their gates….

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“This is how I think the situation with government dependency regarding working-age adults should be handled.

1. Loss of some civil rights while on the dole, especially voting.
2. Mandatory birth control.
3. If single & no children, mandatory, single sex group housing.
4. Absolutely no alcohol or drug use, frequent testing
5. Physical labor cleaning the streets or something similar. We are already paying to feed, house, and clothe them, the should be made to perform some work for the money.”

Who’s going to pay for the execution and enforcement of this program?

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Yesterday in the park I met a woman who was on disability. Couldn’t work. She had broken her back and had arthritis in her shoulders and arms. She gets 800.00 per month. Total. She’s white, by the way. What would she do without this money? Would you tea party supporters have her die? I never come away from this site with out feeling dirty.

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RambleOn84, do you actually believe Coca Cola, Kroger, Merck, Bank of America, et al want people to learn to fish? Do you not see the contradiction in an economic model, which seeks profits (the pursuit of wealth), but also requires that in order for any enterprise to thrive (’create wealth” for owners, shareholders, and employees) it must cut costs, and the most costly operating expense is invariably payroll? “poverty” is not the problem. it is the hoarding of wealth (removing it from the system) that is the problem, and basically, all the government does is print more wealth (debt). think of the economy like a human body, and blood is “wealth”. you can’t remove wealth from circulation and replace it with water (a valueless fluid – think debt). there are “vampires” who feed on the blood of others; what some call parasites, but they’re not the poor (impoverished). we need to “teach” corporations how to manage the fish population, as opposed to “over-fishing”. this may sound radical or socialist, but it’s common sense

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There is no tea party, those folks are just being fooled, they are replublicans all day long with no better ideas than the republicans before them, end of the day they will do nothing different as those before them. Why don’t they have (T) after their names?

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B,
Who exactly is advocating a total abolishment of welfare for those who need it?

Your straw man argument doesn’t hold any weight.

Yes, you have some individuals such as the person who advocates forced birth control who represent the lunatic fringe of the “Tea Party” (the version that is now run by neocons)…you also have some within the Democratic party who believe that minorities are so helpless that the only way to make things fair is to move to complete socialism. Are these positions much different? Not really.

The true libertarians, such as the ones who actually founded the original Tea Party movement, would eventually want to do away with the vast majority of welfare programs, but are realistic enough to realize that they must be gradually done away with so that people who are completely dependent aren’t left out on the street.

With fewer taxes going to government assistance programs (and corporate welfare and warfare, which are even more crucial to end as soon as possible), average people would have more money to donate and start local charities, which are run much more efficiently than any government assistance due to the sheer numbers of employees and the logistics of running nation-wide programs as opposed to small charities based in communities.

Americans are by and large very charitable people, and libertarians for the most part are some of the most charitable. It’s just that we want to have some say in how our donations are used and we want to hold the organizations we donate to accountable. The federal government, sadly, has no accountability (despite Obama’s promise to be the most transparent administration in history).

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paleo-neo-Carlinist,
No, those corporations probably don’t care whether or not any of us has enough money to survive, because they are currently given CORPORATE WELFARE, backed by our big government, to protect them from bankruptcy. They can make terrible decisions all day long (such as the ones made by GM, Chrysler, and all the big banks who gave out bad loans), but they are insulated from failure.

THIS is the problem, and this is what I am trying to convey. Cut the corporate welfare, and those companies will have a vested interest in our well-being. After all, they can’t make money off people too poor to buy their products, now can they?

You would see fewer jobs being exported overseas, because again, it is in their best interests for Americans to have jobs, and therefore more discretionary income.

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“her fellow dimwitted floosie, Sarah Palin”

You are entitled to your own opinion but don’t expect us to take you seriously when you throw this crap out there.

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RambleOn84, excellent post at 11:27, and specific nod for using lower case l when using the word libertarian. therein lies the rub, right? everybody is trying to have a chair when the music stops, and the government, like a drug dealer, knows if it can cultivate dependence, it has power. so pick your poison. Ike warned of the “undue influence” of the military industrial complex, but this only applies when the boogeyman is Communists, terrorists, or drug cartels. there is also an environmental-industrial complex, which believes AGW and climate change are the threat and cap n trade or fewer plastic bottles are the solution. there is a medical-insurance complex, which wants to “wipe out depression” with pills, or ensure all Americans are healthy, but the solution does not lie in the individual, it lies in legislation which ensures (not insures) that first and foremost, insurance premiums will be paid and healthcare providers will be paid. and as I said, the goverment simply keeps pumping more air (debt) into the many “balloons” while the specific “special interests” in housing, banking, defense, healthcare look for ways to game the sysytem, and siphon off what wealth they can before the bubble breaks (recession/depression/market correction).

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“[Tea Party] is now obsessed with “guns, gays and God.”

This is factually incorrect. The Tea Party goes out of its way with redundantly redundant reemphasis of it’s sole focus on economic issues and limited Constitutional government. Try attending a meeting and see for yourself.

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“DawgDad, and you are free to fantasize all you like about Sarah Palin. ”

I don’t “fantasize” about Sarah Palin. I share most of her core political beliefs and support her efforts.

Do you “fantasize” about Democratic leaders like Obama (some did), Pelosi, and Reid? I wouldn’t expect you to, so why do you think I fantasize about Palin? You seriously need to understand who conservatives are and what they believe and STOP drinking the leftist propaganda characterizing us as racist, bigoted, sexist, homophobic, hate-filled “white trash”, even if you don’t agree with us politically. After all, you need us to pay for your programs. The left hasn’t played nice lately and that’s going to bite them in the rear.

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In 2006, Koch Industries owner Charles Koch revealed to the Wall Street Journal’s Stephen Moore that he coordinates the funding of the conservative infrastructure of front groups, political campaigns, think tanks, media outlets and other anti-government efforts through a twice annual meeting of wealthy right-wing donors. He also confided to Moore, who is funded through several of Koch’s ventures, that his true goal is to strengthen the “culture of prosperity” by eliminating “90%” of all laws and government regulations. Although it is difficult to quantify the exact amount Koch alone has funneled to right-wing fronts, some studies have pointed toward $50 million he has given alone to anti-environmental groups. Recently, fronts funded by Charles and his brother David have received scrutiny because they have played a pivotal role in the organizing of the anti-Obama Tea Parties and the promotion of virulent far right lawmakers like Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC). (David Koch praised DeMint and gave him a “Washington Award” shortly after the senator promised to “break” Obama by making health reform his “Waterloo.”)

While the Koch brothers — each worth over $21.5 billion — have certainly underwritten much of the right, their hidden coordination with other big business money has gone largely unnoticed. ThinkProgress has obtained a memo outlining the details of the last Koch gathering held in June of this year. The memo, along with an attendee list of about 210 people, shows the titans of industry — from health insurance companies, oil executives, Wall Street investors, and real estate tycoons — working together with conservative journalists and Republican operatives to plan the 2010 election, as well as ongoing conservative efforts through 2012. According to the memo, David Chavern, the number two at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Fox News hate-talker Glenn Beck also met with these representatives of the corporate elite. In an election season with the most undisclosed secret corporate giving since the Watergate-era, the memo sheds light on the symbiotic relationship between extremely profitable, multi-billion dollar corporations and much of the conservative infrastructure. The memo describes the prospective corporate donors as “investors,” and it makes clear that many of the Republican operatives managing shadowy, undisclosed fronts running attack ads against Democrats were involved in the Koch’s election-planning event.

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“He also confided to Moore, who is funded through several of Koch’s ventures, that his true goal is to strengthen the “culture of prosperity” by eliminating “90%” of all laws and government regulations. ”

Aim high. I like that.

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DawgDad,
I sincerely hope the Tea Party candidates will keep true to what they say.

I am not a Democrat by any means.

I am a libertarian, which, if anything, is closer to TRUE conservative ideals than either mainstream party right now.

I hope you’re right…but I’ve heard the same song and dance routine out of Republicans for too many years: “Small government” out of one side of their mouths while they keep increasing safety nets for large corporations and perpetuating warfare.

I guess I’m saying the Democrats and Republicans are pretty much just alike right now

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Ramble: It’s incumbent on us as citizens and voters to hold our political leaders accountable. The Republicans got slapped around and then down in 2006 and 2008; they did deserve that. Look at the approval polls; vast, vast majority of people are STILL unsatisfied with Congress and the direction of the country. Much more cleanup of irresponsible politicians and continued diligence is needed.

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DawgDad,

I don’t “fantasize” about Sarah Palin. I share most of her core political beliefs and support her efforts.

What exactly are her “core political beliefs”? She’s a snake-juggling loon who is a neo-con fundraiser and motivational speaker and nothing more. don’t get me wrong, fundraising and cheerleading are key components to any political movement, but she has no “core”. she (like O’Connell) is shallow and intellectually bankrupt.

Do you “fantasize” about Democratic leaders like Obama (some did), Pelosi, and Reid? I wouldn’t expect you to, so why do you think I fantasize about Palin?

I can’t even answer this one. I have been critical of all three, and I have at times referred to Obama as Bush v 2.0.

You seriously need to understand who conservatives are and what they believe and STOP drinking the leftist propaganda characterizing us as racist, bigoted, sexist, homophobic, hate-filled “white trash”,

Google the words paleconservative and neoconservative. It is you who appears to not undertsand what it means to be “conservative”.

even if you don’t agree with us politically. After all, you need us to pay for your programs. The left hasn’t played nice lately and that’s going to bite them in the rear.

see my original post to KW and subsequent posts to RambleOn84. dial down the “we:” nonsense. I (and others) have paid for just as many DoD, programs as you have paid for Food Stamps and Section 8 housing. the fact that you view this as some sort of a spitting contest is the very reason I dispise people like O Connell and Pallin (and Obama, Pelosi and Reid). they’re opportunists and political profiteers, and nothing more.

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Koch Brother, Wayan Brothers or whatever doesnt matter. We are the Tea Party and we are coming for you and you and yes you too. Get on the train or be runover by it.

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left wing, and as one who exists in the labor market, if you eliminate any significant distinction between “capital” and jobs – that is to say, assign an economic or financial value to a gainfully employed American, then you view offshoring or outsourcing very much like the hoarding (removing) of wealth from the system. I have thrown around the term socialist plutocracy, but maybe a better term is; globalist capitalism. Capitalism may have worked (for better or worse, and robber barons, labor unions and sweat shops aside) within the context of the United States of America and our Constitution, but by the end of the 20th century and as the 21st century unfolds, the “global economy” and the emerging economies like China (1 billion people) India, and radical Islam’s refusual to join the modern world (which is ironically bolstered by the modern petro-economy) and you have a perfect storm, which will not be avoided (or survived) via something as base and shallow as the tea party (or Obama and “Socialism” if that’s your bag)

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Liberals are fools and conservatives are mean. Both sides are logically impaired and lack good sense. Somewhere between the two extremes is balance and harmony. Why is it so elusive? I’m just about sick of the entire human race. Is it 2012 yet?

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Just because one does not pay income tax, does not mean a citizen doesn’t pay taxes.
-If you own a car and use it, you pay ad valoreum, insurance and gas taxes; live in metro Atlanta and you pay a tax called an emission test for your car.
-If you live in a house or rent an apartment, you pay all sorts of taxes; overly or covertly, but you pay nonetheless.
-If you shop for clothes or food or medicine, you pay sales tax.
-If you buy all sorts of other goods, you pay a sales tax, a recycling tax and maybe an excise tax.
-If you use a phone, the internet, have cable or use a DVD service you pay taxes.

Dependence on government has come about because the private marketplace has NOT produced wages and benefits to such a sufficient level, that citizen can survive alone. Wages have been stagnant since Reagin; benefits are disappearing at an alarming rate. The cost of goods and services that the average citizen needs keeps going up and up even though wages and salaries do not for the 97% of us at the bottom of the income scale. For many, what little government assistance there is, is the only thing between death, homelessness and hunger, despite having a paying job. Many work, but are unable to find full-time work. So, Kyle, smarty pants, what is a citizen who isn’t in the top 3% to do?

As far as social security is concerned, the politicans have fu#ked that up. Private penisons are a relic of the past and few of us in private work sector have that benefit. So how are we to retire in our old age? Same with Medicare. Kyle, you seem woefully ignorant of the history surrounding these programs and of the citizens who actually work and produce in this country. Maybe you should educate yourself on the history and goals of these programs and why they are more than worth saving, even in this time and place.

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paleo @ 10:54

Amen!!! Nobody wants to address the extent of dependence outside of “social” programs.

JLK@ @ 10:19

Agreed. There has to be some serious tightening on the budget. The problem is that the Left doesn’t want to cut social programs, and the right doesn’t want to cut into defense or corporate programs. I personally think there should be some cutting in all of them.

TINSTAAFL @ 10:14

I see your point, and understand what you’re saying. As per your example, that wealth that you create by sharpening the stick may be personal wealth, but it may not mean a thing to the caveman in the cave next to you if he already has one or has fire. The true wealth that you have created is achieved when you sell that stick or gathered more food with that stick than everyone else. Then you have something that not everyone else has. If everyone has a sharpened stick, all is equal.

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Well of course the culture of dependence is growing. That’s one of the many stupidities liberalism! (Along with being hypocrites like the Googlelibs avoiding corporate income taxes). Liberals are looking for some sort of socialist neo-Marxist utopia where the government owns and controls all the money and wealth in this nation. Everyone should share equally the wealth that according to liberalism really belongs to everyone.

How some mindless blithering charlatan idiot (a liberal) can validate that John works harder than Joe yet Joe deserves some of John’s money is beyond reasoning. It is not American. It’s Marxism. Thank God Americans have woken up to the Democrap destruction machine led by the Three Stooges: Obama, Pelosi, and Reid.

The Chosen One’s Gallup approval has hit an all time low at 44.7%. And before anyone states that Reagan’s was even lower (which it was at 41.7%), I will submit that Reagan had a plan to get the nation back on course after four years of a disastrous Carter administration. Obama on the other hand is just making things worse in America, no thanks to additional help from the Pelosi and Reid rats. But that’s going to soon change. Heh.

GO FOX NEWS FULL TIME JUAN WILLIAMS!! You are a fair minded liberal. Don’t let those bed wetting libtards at NPR/PB.S. bother you ever again. Good riddance. Can we get the taxpayer funding removed from that liberal media outlet run by liberals? That would be great. I’ll never donate one red cent to them but will watch cooking shows and listen to classical music for free.

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Hey 12, your strings are showing.

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Just because one does not pay income tax, that person must be a corporation.

In any given year many/most don’t.

As for the delusional Hope & Change in 12 days, let’s review, shall we?

The Republic just endured eight years of unmitigated disasters and serial debacles at the hands of the worst administration in modern history, as enabled by the worst Republican leaders in the history of the party. Bush and Cheney should never have been allowed to serve out their terms. How they were not impeached for serial violations of US law is a travesty and testament to the craven and spineless Democrats.

Documented train wreck after train wreck. Deadly and incompetent. Morally bankrupt with record numbers of scandals and corruption.

And if I understand correctly, in the ensuing two years they had some sort of stunning epiphany?

They showed sincere remorse for screwing up the nation horrifically? Economically, environmentally, in terms of domestic policy and especially in foreign policy?

NO.

From what I have seen they have not made one substantive improvement whatsoever. Nothing. The Party of No.

If anything they are even more intransigent and irrational then ever. Witness the advent of the lunatic fringe’s lunatic fringe, aka the Tea Party. Hopeless misguided hyper-reactionaries.

And anybody who believes the bumbling neo-cons have changed stripes is just delusional.

More of the same from the grand advocates of the failed status quo…

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JKL2, good one. as opposed to the “foreign interests” that ran the Bush-Cheney administration (hint: they wear robes and have the word Saud somewhere in their names). last time I checked, I didn’t see Obama or any democrats holding hands with or kissing George Soros.

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@JKL2…what is George Soros if he’s not American?

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@JKL2…you’ve been listening to Rush Limbaugh too much, it’s got your brains fried. George Soros is American…just as American as Rupert Murdoch. Both immigrated here and are naturalized citizens.

George Soros announced today that he was making his first-ever contribution to Media Matters, in the amount of $1 million. Rush Limbaugh denounced this as “foreign money in American politics” and called Soros “a foreigner.” Right-wing bloggers echoed this claim (”Foreign Money in Politics: Soros Donates $1 Million to Media Matters”), and the comment section of right-wing blogs discussing this donation are filled with accusations that this constitutes “foreign money in politics.”

George Soros, however, is an American citizen, with the full panoply of rights citizenship bestows (including the right to vote or run for office). He’s been an American citizen for almost 50 years, since the age of 31 (Business Week: “George Soros became a naturalized American citizen in New York on Dec. 18, 1961, according to the Immigration & Naturalization Service”). He was born in Hungary in 1930, survived German occupation even as numerous Jews died, fled to London after the war to escape Communism, and then began working in New York in 1956. He lived and worked in the U.S. for many years and has given away many millions of dollars in philanthropy to American organizations.

What is it about Soros exactly that leads right-wing commentators — including their long-time leader, Rush Limbaugh — to falsely brand this American citizen a “foreigner”? The answer to that question provides substantial insight into the American Right and how they think about many things.

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Agreed Ramble, hence, the T Party is definitely needed and ripe to make inroads. I look forward to the day when GA reps, Chambliss and Isakson and others are booted from offce via TP!

OH HAPPY DAY!

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mike,
Please read my post above…the problems in this country have been brewing since long before Obama or Bush (or even Bush Sr.).

Kennedy was assassinated when he threatened the system…Eisenhower warned us about what was coming…it was around then, too.

It all started in earnest in 1913, but there were probably things brewing even before then.

The problem is MONEY, and it always has been. Those who have it want to keep it, and they don’t want you breathing their precious air.

They also own our government.

Who runs the Federal Reserve?

There’s your culprit…the Republicans and Democrats are just a smoke screen.

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To trim the amount spend by our govt, one of the first things that needs cutting is any taxpayer funds going to NPR. They lost their objectivity a long time ago and now they fire one of their best simply for offering his opinion, which he is paid to do. Cut them off now!

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RambleOn84, you’ve done your homework. here’s thr $14 trillion question; who “owns” money? I think you might answer “the Fed(eral Reserve Bank) – they ultimate “central authority/socialist instrument, presented as an icon of capitalism. The Fed establishes the “value” of the dollar via interest rates (and the dollar has lost 90% of its actual value since 1913). the Fed creates housing bubbles by pumping cheap money on the street (which inflates housing values via debt-fueled appreciation, which leads to “speculation” – that is housing as an “investment” as opposed to a living expense). The owners of the Fed realized they could become the ultimate “gamers” of the system. The Fed has literally perfected the art of turning air (debt) into wealth (theirs, we the People get the I.O.U.). yep, it all comes down to Ben Franklin’s “money is the root of all evil”. when money is a currency; a means of exchange for the purcase or sale of goods or services, it is benign, but when the pursuit of wealth (money) leads to card tricks, sleight of hand financial instruments, and other forms of paper shuffling in lieu of productive work, as I said, eventually the music stops, and somebody is without a chair.

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Unfortunately, paleo-neo-Carlinist, we are the ones left without a chair.

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excuse me, in 6 months, securitized chair mortgages and default swaps will be sold on the NYSE

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Thank you, Real Athens. One last comment about the tea party and the poor: how will the tea party tell who is ‘upstanding’ enough to receive help? I have enough evidence to believe the primary rejection criteria would be ones skin color. Please feel free to read between the lines.

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If we are going to talk about dependence we need to look across the board and some of the reasons for that dependence.

1. Corporate Welfare
* Tax policy – many conservatives charge that the corporate tax rate needs to be lowered to be competitive. If businesses actually paid based on tax table rates, I would agree. But they don’t. There are myriads of tax credits and deductions. Many, many businesses pay no taxes despite making healthy profits.
* Direct subsidies – many industries including agra-business, the energy sector, etc. enjoy direct subsidies from the taxpayer.
* No Bid Business – Halliburton, among others got juicy “no bid”awards to provide services (including some that killed our soldiers)
* Defense appropriations out of control – the military-industrial complex is in full swing with members of Congress voting to keep alive weapons systems and bases and even the military say they don’t need.

2. Offshoring
We have adopted tax and other policies that encourage businesses to offshore jobs. So it should not be a surprise to anyone that when $60K manufacturing and tech jobs are replaced with $20K jobs at McDonalds, people don’t have sufficient income to feed, clothe and house their families, let alone afford health insurance.

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paleo-neo-Carlinist,
That’s the funniest, saddest, and truest analysis of the whole mess I’ve ever read.

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Here’s a wonderful example of dependency. And, GASP, it’s Obama’s auntie….

http://wbztv.com/local/obama.aunt.Zeituni.2.1924422.html

You can also check this out on YouTube.

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DawgDad

October 21st, 2010
2:31 pm
“we all can’t win unless you really believe in santa claus”

Therein lies the fallacy of the left. “Yes, Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus.”

Our Founding Fathers understood this, and I for one got the message from my forefathers, teachers, and mentors. Everybody does not hope for, earn, or receive the same identical “presents under the tree”. We strive continually for a BETTER future for our family and our nation. We strive to uplift EVERYBODY, not just the politically or socially favored. We uplift whenever possible by providing opportunity and enabling growth. The benefits do trickle down, and we look last to government and others to satisfy our needs.

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—-
with a handle like yours it’s no surprise you struggle with comprehension as well as logic.

When the stocks of MCI, Enron, CIT and Bear Stearns crashed everyone came out a winner right?

Typical jawjah bulldog fan.

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RambleOn84, kinda makes you recalll Mortimer and Randolph Duke from “Trading Places” doesn’t it? seriously, one more thought; also makes you think about Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity (among others, there are probably some liberals doing the same) hawking “gold”. As if people will be able to eat gold or throw gold bricks at the bands of cannibals who will be roaming America when the real bubble bursts. you ever read Jim Jubak? in the midst of the melt down he was advocating disciplined buying in lieu or gold or taking money out of the market, or simply buying bullets because bullets will be worth more than gold if we ever reach the point where gold is worth anything – rock, paper, scissors… another birthday party game.

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j., my point exactly, it isn’t “wealth” that trickles down when the bubble bursts.

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Tychus- BS on You!!!

If you are going to get people off of welfare their primary focus needs to be on getting the skills needed for today’s job market, networking and looking for a job.

I know people that are highly educated with excelled work pedigrees that in this current market spend 50+ hours a week searching for a job. This was their full-time job for months on end. Two of my friends have been successful in finding jobs but at about a 30% pay and benefits reduction. The other is still searching after 8 months.

So don’t underestimate what it takes to get a job when you sit in the comfort of your salaried position.

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john- George Soros announced today that he was making his first-ever contribution to Media Matters, in the amount of $1 million.

Just the first time he contributed directly. As opposed to going thru his Open Society Foundation, The Tides Foundation, Appolo Aliance, MoveOn.org, etc… You know how these rich people like to move things thru there shill corporations. Not that he would ever be considered evil because he gives money to the Democrats.

He is now an American, just not a good one.

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Henry is still an American, apparently the guy is still alive.

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The problem is you now have generations of Americans that grew up on welfare. I have absolutely no problem with families getting plenty of help back onto their feet, but at some point they have to learn to fly again and that isn’t happening. You can’t continue to support people who don’t want to work and don’t want to improve their situation.

There are a lot of people who really need the help and eventually get on with their lives and then there are those who live off the system and have no intention of getting on with their lives. One only needs to look at Greece and now France to see that this type of system doesn’t work because eventually the people living off the system outnumber the people who actually work to pay for that system.

Single moms with no income pumping out children is an absolute abuse to the system. My grandmother had 4 children and a brand new house when my grandfather dropped dead in the living room floor at 41 yrs old. With all 4 children under the age of 10 she had no option but to get a job. When the first job wasn’t enough to feed the kids and pay the mortgage, she got a second job. When the second job wasn’t enough, she got a third job, which did the trick.

The entitlement system in this country isn’t designed to help people anymore, it’s designed to keep them there and our country is now going broke because of it. Add in the 50+ million abortions since Roe vs Wade and you have a huge gap of people coming into the workforce to support the system that is in place.

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Algonquin j. Calhoun

We should absolutely love our brothers and sisters, but part of the reason they cannot rise to an appropriate economic level is because many women are too busy sleeping around and getting knocked up. The men take off because they got what they wanted and the child is left to suffer the consequences of these actions. I don’t think any children should suffer, but you cannot continue to reward people who don’t care about how their actions affect themselves, their children, and Americans in general.

I assure you there are a lot of people who gladly choose poverty when faced with the reality of punching a clock every day.

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@JKL2

I just said George Soros is American after you claimed he is not. You’re just another example of how the right wing media works. They make up their own story and say it often enough via Rush and Fox News that it becomes fact in the minds of conservatives. Rush says George Soros is a foreigner and is pumping money into the campaign…so it becomes fact. They’ve been talking about Socialist Obama and his bailout and in the minds of conservatives that becomes fact…never mind that TARP and the bailouts was signed by President Bush or that Boehner cried on the House floor urging it’s passage.

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The loony left wing of the Democrat party must be the only species on the face of the earth that cannot or will not learn from experience, even Animals and Babies learn from experience!

The Socialist countries in Europe , Britain, France, Germany, Greece etc. have finally recognized Socialism and the Welfare State with unlimited immigration of uneducated third world parasites flooding in to get on the public dole does not work and are cutting back government, including numbers, wages, & benefits in order to survive as a Nation and returning to capitalism.

While here in the USA Obama and the Democrats are hell bent on taking the us to a welfare socialist paradise in spite of proof all over the world and in the failed Blue States here that it does not work.

Illinois, Calif, New York, New Jersey, all Blue States that have been controlled by Democrat Majorities for years and long enough to try there taxing, spending and vote buying of public union members by giving wages and benefits that is bankrupting the government while pandering to illegal Aliens, and welfare leeches are now seeing the results, all are bordering on bankruptcy.

Now Obama is following the same blueprint on a vastly bigger scale for the rest of American using 100,s of billion of the simulate money to reward Democrat supporters and to keep the under worked and overpaid public union in jobs and buy Workfare & Welfare votes!

The same multi-trillion dollar con job Obama is attempting, by giving Amnesty to the invading horde of Criminals & Uneducated Prolific breeding third world parasites & with chain immigration all the ones still left in Mexico to buy 10,s of millions of welfare votes for the Democrat party with money borrowed from China while bankrupting this Nation.

With the future & further goal of turning the USA into a Spanish speaking Third World Slum modeled on Mexico but controlled Lock, Stock & Barrel by the Socialist/Democrat party Dictatorship of the United Sates of Mexico!

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When I first read your headline I thought you were talking about corporations like Google who avoid paying billions in taxes by shuttling their cash off shore… But I see you are just bashing regular Americans who are trying to feed their families…

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@Richard Hamilton

“Add in the 50+ million abortions since Roe vs Wade and you have a huge gap of people coming into the workforce to support the system that is in place.”

And who would support those 50+ million for 18-22 years of their lives until they enter the workforce?

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Black Saint

I think you have some serious personal issues that you need to deal with. You lash out arbitrarily at a whole community of your fellow human beings with absolutely no basis in fact.

I had the opportunity to work with low-income Georgia taxpayers on a pro bono basis. After I got some experience I began to handle some of the non-English speaking caseload including many Spanish-speaking taxpayers.

These people often worked 2-3 jobs @ very low wages but they provided for their families. Still they were often at or below the poverty level and as such were not subject to income tax.

But when I asked them for receipts and other documentation they provided them usually in date order. When I met with them they appeared before me dressed very simply but they were clean and their children sat and said nothing.

On the other hand I had alot of white trash clients who were just that, white trash. They never had any receipt or documents. They would lie to me that they had sent me what I had asked. When I met with them they were dirty and their clothes were a disgrace.

I’m not saying there aren’t bad elements in the illegal immigrant population but don’t paint them all with such a broad brush. There is plenty of blame to go around.

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that abortion question is one I’ve asked for years. exactly who will take care of those unwanted babies?

i’ve never heard a conservative answer this question – they usually attack me with accusations of being callous

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Willie: What do you call taking when people struggle to pay their landlord $800/mo. or more in rent? What of all the lack of protections for citizens who are subject to any number of hidden fees, finance charges, services charges, insurance skyrocketing, etc. in the course of everyday life that did NOT exist even five years ago? We are more dependent because wages are not keeping up and technology is displacing capable workers.

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Very easy. IF you believe the government should have the power to forcefully take property from one individual to give to another indiviidual you are by definition a SOCIALIST. Now, you may be a modern US Democratic Socialist, or even a Marxist but nowhere in our constitution is it laid out that our Federal Government has that kind of power,…not even in the 16th Amendment authorizing an income tax. Those taxes were to be used for the common good, not redistributed to hordes of human debris.

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Southern Comfort

October 21st, 2010
8:11 am
programs which redistribute income, which take from some people and give what is taken to others.

“Sounds like a company that sells a product, then pays dividends to stockholders. Redistibution is relative.”

You do realize the difference between having the freedom to purchase a product and having your money taken by force don’t you?

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Ayn – spoke like a true Democrat. Government has a purpose, but that purpose is not to provide a living. it’s to provide services. The gov’t produces nothing, and its existence depends on what it can take from others. Government played o part itn he current economic crisis? What about al lthe “everyone should be a homeowner regardless of whether they can afford it nor not” and Barney Frank’s boyfriend’s administration of Freddie and Fannie.
Have you kept up with what’s going on in France now as that gov’t tries to extend the retirement age to protect gov’t sponsored retirement programs? See any comparison to things going on at home?
Will agree that there is a lot of corporate welfare going on, but that’s from both parties protecting their respective cash cows. Don’t think the Dems protect their base? How about cleaning your ears out, opening your eyes, and well, blow your nose for good measure.
Face it, regardless of whether its Dems or GOP in charge, a sizeable segment of society is going to get hosed, the determination being the have’s (Dems) or have nots (GOP). Illegals milking the system, generational institutionalized welfare cases, multi-billion corporates paying little in taxes, tax shelters, and the list goes on. Our once great country is broken, and I for one don’t see either side as the fix to get it back on track.

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IGNORANCE. Some of you complain that your ‘hard earned’ money is being given to lazy free-loaders. You are angry. You are mis-informed. Ask an economist.

The more money you make the more federal tax money is spent on YOU! If you are a successful small business person you get more federal government services (paid for by other people) than a welfare family.

The more money you make the more you use Patent and Trademark protection, International Trade benefits, TSA air travel safety, Security and Exchange Com, Federal Deposit Insurance, State Department, etc. It turns out that your so-called ‘hard earned money’ is made possible by a framework of federal institutions that let you compete and travel in a global marketplace. Even your corner grocery store sells brand name products for a higher price. BRAND NAME, that means that it is copyrighted and/or trademarked. You are benefiting from the work of a federal employee and somebody is paying for their work to help YOU.

The amount of taxes that are spent on YOU are roughly correlated to your income. Ask an economist who has studied this.

Your nightmare of other people living off of your money is more true for people who make less money than you. It is you who are the beneficiaries. Please become informed and particpate in democracy all the time, not just when you are angry and easily manipulated. You believe the worst things about your fellow Americans without actually knowing the facts. Anger is rarely a motivation for accomplishing good things.

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If Deal is elected……you will have a welfare case as a Governor…… he is almost broke, that is leadership ?

He would be Broke……. if the guy didn’t get his special ” Deal ” from the government !

So Republican’s would vote this crook in and say all is cool …… HA HA HA HA !

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As several posters have alluded to, the household median income in the US has actually shrunk in consistent dollars over these same years in which “the culture of dependence” has grown.Coincidence? Consider further that these same households are now more likely to be two earner vs one earner households, and worker productivity has increased greatly over this same time period, and yet despite this, the household median income has gone down. Where is all the money being produced by these harder working, more productive workers going? It is obviously not going to these households, or else they wouldn’t be falling off the tax rolls, would they?

Business is doing what it is “supposed” to do in maximizing profits, but doing so on the backs of its workers. Capitalism and the free market are great tools. They are only tools though, not some god to be worshipped and unquestioned. Unfettered, they are no more the realistic foundation of a Utopian society than is Socialism or Libertarianism. When the majority of the workers in a society can’t afford to buy the everyday goods and services they are producing, the system will shrink considerably and eventually collapse. With the US’s large population, this will take time, because even losing 25%, 35%, 50% of the population to poverty or subsistence living, still leaves a big market to sell to.

The problem is how to make sure workers are rewarded for increased productivity. The free market has failed to produce this desirable outcome. If increased productivity is rewarded, workers earn more, increasing the size of the tax rolls, reducing the need for an ever expanding safety net, etc. They create more demand for goods and services, allowing more expansion of the economy, more businesses, more good paying jobs, etc. Unfortunately, one can’t expect business to take this step themselves, because under the current business environment, it doesn’t make fiscal sense to do so individually. Any business that tried to do this alone would be at a competitive disadvantage. The solution is to change the business environment so that it makes fioscal sense to pay workers more, commensurate to their productivity. The way this was achieved in the past was through high marginal tax rate.Under these conditions, it made more fiscal sense for a business to pay it’s workers more, and/or reinvest in the business, rather than pay ludicrous bonuses and salaries to executives which would only be taxed to oblivion anyway.

The major obstacle to this solution in the minds of some, is emergence of the global market, where there is always someplace in the world willing to pay their workers less, making US workers less competitive. This can be countered however, by the superior productivity of the American worker, and the superior quality of their work.Unless, of course, you don’t believe enough in America……

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@The Frickasaur

“IF you believe the government should have the power to forcefully take property from one individual to give to another indiviidual you are by definition a SOCIALIST. Now, you may be a modern US Democratic Socialist, or even a Marxist but nowhere in our constitution is it laid out that our Federal Government has that kind of power,…not even in the 16th Amendment authorizing an income tax.”

I noticed how you used the term Democratic Socialist but didn’t say anything about Republican Socialist. By your definition of a Socialist…power to forcefully take property from one individual to give to another individual, this could include eminent domain. You know, forcefully taking homes and land from people (of course, compensating them) and give it to wealthy private developers so they could redevelop the site and make a profit. After the landmark Supreme Court case, congress tried to pass a bill to stop it. The bill passed in the House but died in the Senate. This was in November 2005. Who controlled the Senate in 2005…Republicans.

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Also, Kyle-quoting the Heritage Foundation is like quoting the Weekly World News. It’s not a legitimate organization-it’s a right wing tool that cranks out figures for whatever conservative cause needs spinning. And I do believe that the tea party is a bunch of hive mind cranks. I don;t think they have the intelligence to be much more than that.

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There is slavery in America. The slaves are those who work and earn in the top 10% (making over $105,000/yr) and have their wages taken for the benefit of those who do not work. These earner slaves are paying 65.84% of all personal taxes. They are like cotton pickers who did not reap what they sowed and they labor under the whip of the tax code.

The balance has tipped completely and those who receive the benefit of this system will not allow for it to disappear. Government workers and those dependent on government handouts are vested in this slavery and, like the Confederacy, will not go down without a fight. We are now seeing riots and protests and shutdowns in Europe over austerity measures. The same will happen here if the earner slaves balk at paying for programs they do not benefit from.

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Elected officials are like diapers- and in the US Congress, that is indeed the case; they’re all wet and full of crap. Democrats don’t deserve to keep their majority. I don’t trust Republicans either, but I’ll vote for them because there are no Independants running in my State/District.

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1. Call them stupid, and appeal to anti-rural bigotry.
2. Bring up a straw man. Lots of corporations behave like welfare entitlement gimmes, too…
3. Complain that they are mean. They lack compassion. Their policies can’t be any good, since they don’t *feel* good.
4. And what’s an argumentum ad hominem & argumentum ad misericordium without an ad populum to throw into the mix? “Everyone knows” ….

Someone once observed that the basic problem with the left wing is that they don’t get that sooner or later, everyone has to take a turn at being the grownup. They think they have a right to be supported forever. They can’t comprehend that it’s up to them to figure out how to get a roof over their heads and food, etc……No, the wealthy don’t want to be your daddy, why should they have to? Maybe it’s true the govt would like to be your daddy, that’s even scarier; it is not reasonable to suppose either will take care of you forever without expecting anything in return.

Enough with the freeloaders and the entitlement gimmes already!

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Southern Comfort seems to want to equate voluntary participation in commercial activity (buying a product, investing in a company) with government wealth distribution programs. Ludicrous. In the first, I exchange dollars I EARNED through MY WORK for a product, service or investment that I FIND OF VALUE. In essence I am trading my work for someone else’s work (the maker of a product or provider of a service). In turn, they get my money which can be exchanged for a product/service they value. Capitalism.

Government redistribution programs, boiled down to their essence, take MY WORK and give it to another person who DID NOTHING to earn the productivity of my labor. They are then able to exchange MY WORK to satisfy THEIR “NEEDS.” Their “Need” is exploited by politicians to pander for votes, thus perpetuating and enriching the politician. The politician is then incented to create more “needs” and more “people in need” so that they have sufficiently large majorities to pander to. All while picking the pockets of the productive in order to line the pockets of those “in need.” What better way to get a vote than to buy it?

Federal government has no role to play in meeting the supposed “needs” of individuals. These decisions are better left to individuals and communities, who are much better positioned to judge true need and the appropriate remedy.

One thing I do agree with my friend Southern Comfort on is that we all have choices. And I fear if the country continues on the path its on, there will be difficult choices to be made. At some point the productive class will rebel against the continually escalating burden placed upon them by “the needs” of others and their political respresentatives. What form that rebellion takes, I do not know – I just know it is coming.

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Ben Franklin once said of poverty “I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.” I agree with this sentiment. We started down the “entitlement mentality” road many years ago, probably with Teddy Roosevelt, but really with the explosion of the progressive philosophy under FDR’s Administration. To turn it back we must make painful cuts in the size of the federal government by 1) eliminating many of the departments that foster dependence (HUD and the Department of Education are two I would cut immediately), 2) dramatically reduce taxes to stimulate private sector job creation as well as reform the tax system (Repeal the 16th Amendment and implement the Fair Tax for example), and then begin the process of re-indoctrinating our kids about the wonders of liberty and market capitalism. The progressives never will win in the arena of ideas and they have to be dishonest to implement their agenda. We need to bring them out in the open and debate this choice: do we want to be a free republic or live in a state of economic slavery? There will be resistance from the left and also unrest to some extent but it will be worth the struggle. Vote on November 2nd!

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Hey Russ, so you want the government to grant you your rights? You are so trusting. The Constitution was a work of brilliant men, who while flawed as we all are, created a new type of country where men could succeed or fail in large measure on their own efforts. It is not a dead letter. Otherwise Obama would have crowned himself king by now.

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Tell what I think….if we just made it a FLAT tax….say 16% on everyone regardless of income, 16% straight up, no deductions for anything, and cut ALL entitlements except for the truly helpless, such as the mentally and physically handicapped, this economy would take off like never before, and STAY high, and people would become independant again and the politicians would be POWERLESS to buy votes and become corrupted in the manner that occurs now……(and NO i’m far from rich make less than 40K year) who’s with me????

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It’s neither compassionate nor generous to take from one man against his will, to give to another— it’s theft. Taking from my family for the sake of another should be my choice, not yours.

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SoCo, I know I’m coming a bit late to the party, but I want to respond to your comments.

The difference between taxation and capitalism with respect to “redistribution” is enormous. In the latter, wealth is created organically and flows to those in proportion to their utility to society. (That’s the theory, at least; I do understand that in practice, undiluted and unregulated capitalism has no shortage of flaws and inequities, which is why a strong and limited federal government is a necessary evil.)

Taxation is far different. For one thing, governments cannot create wealth; that’s a core fact of economics. For another, human nature being what it is, government-controlled wealth flows to whoever has the most political power, irrespective of their utility to society. If the thought of a Republican takeover of Congress (or a Democratic one, if you prefer) frightens you, stop and ask yourself why. The answer, I believe, is because our government has grown too big, too powerful, and too intrusive. It DOES matter who has the keys. And, it shouldn’t. If the Federal government were limited in scope, as the Founding Fathers unequivocably intended, wave elections (like the current one is shaping up to be) would be of far less cause for alarm no matter which side of the political aisle you’re on. I for one would rather the two major parties fight over the keys to a nice little Ford Ranger pickup truck, rather than the gargantuan fleet of bulldozers, heavy artillery, and armored tanks that our government has grown to be.

The fact is, the ninth and tenth amendments are just as important as the first eight, and over the last 75 years or so they have been increasingly ignored. That’s something to be truly frightened over.

As the old but dead-on zinger goes, “Socialists believe that governments create prosperity and businesses create oppression, despite three millennia of evidence to the contrary.”

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic.”
- Benjamin Franklin

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This column is right on the money! Additionally, we need to realize that, for years, state governments in particular have retained employees with promises of retirement benefits that are way out of line. That just “kicks the financial bucket” down the line to future administrations, and now we are paying the price.
I have a relative who retired at age 55 in the 1980’s at 90% of his then salary, and who now receives far more than he did when he was working full time. That’s insane!

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