Year after year, our culture of dependence grows
The best explanation for the tea party phenomenon is the overwhelming sense among so many Americans that our relationship between government and the governed has gotten out of whack.
But it has been easy for critics to pick at the movement because this sense, this feeling, has as many origins as the tea party has leaders. Just as there is no front man for the tea party, there has been no single fact or figure that tea partiers could point to and say, See this? This is what we’re talking about.
But the Heritage Foundation may have come close with the release last week, at an event in Buckhead, of its 2010 Index of Dependence on Government.
Heritage has compiled federal data on public spending dating back to 1962 on housing, health and welfare, retirement, education, and rural and agricultural services. The stalwart conservative institution then indexed them through the 2009 fiscal year.
The not-so-surprising result: Americans’ dependence on government is higher than ever.
One in five Americans — 64.3 million people — relies on government handouts to fulfill basic needs for housing, food and/or health care. That’s double the proportion before Lyndon B. Johnson’s “Great Society,” and it doesn’t even include corporate welfare. Add the number of public workers, and almost three in 10 of us get our livelihood from government.
At the same time, two in five Americans in 2008 — 132.5 million people — did not pay federal income taxes and were not claimed as dependents by anyone who did. The percentage of nontaxpayers has nearly tripled since 1984.
The nontaxpayer figure has been kicked around in the press a fair amount, with detractors complaining that most of those millions do pay state and local taxes, including sales taxes. That’s true enough, although the federal figure is most vital since it’s at that level that most taxing, spending and public borrowing take place.
But the number of government dependents gets less discussion. That’s a mistake.
First, it’s a fiscal problem to have fewer than three taxpayers providing for each effective ward of the state, plus themselves and their own families.
The Social Security system alone says 2.9 workers are needed to sustain each retiree — a ratio that we’ve dipped below temporarily during the recession. We’re expected to fall permanently short of it by 2015. Multiply that gap by all government entitlements, and you see how precarious our situation is.
(An aside to those who bristle when I call Social Security an “entitlement”: Of course I know you paid payroll taxes, as I do now. I also know that these taxes won’t cover the benefits you and I are slated to receive.)
But perhaps more important, and just as animating to the tea party, is the effect the culture of dependence has on our national character.
One of the left’s most insidious canards is that you only care about helping someone if you support a federal program for them. That is true only to the degree that Washington has crowded out private charity.
As the Heritage authors wrote, “In the past, a person in need depended on help from people and organizations in his or her local community. …
“However, the dependent relationship with elements of the civil society includes healthy expectations of the recipient’s future civil viability and ability to aid another person in turn. The dependent relationship with the political system has no reciprocal expectations.”
Well, the politicians do expect votes. Still, the healthier kind of relationship is under ever-greater threat.
I’m sure critics will keep smearing the tea party as having darker motives. But if they don’t understand the importance of the dependence issue, they’ll still wonder what happened after the wave hits them.
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243 comments Add your comment
professional skeptic
October 21st, 2010
10:56 am
Couldn’t agree with you more, Kyle. Right here in Georgia, we’ve got a leading candidate for governor who’s looking to depend on the state for a place to live. Why? Because he’s got to sell his home in order to pay for his long history of terrible business and financial decisions.
The entitlement mentality is absolutely disgusting.
RambleOn84
October 21st, 2010
10:57 am
It is counterproductive to place blame on any “free-loaders,” “welfare queens,” or whatever else you want to call the poor people who are dependent on the government.
While some of these people are blatantly exploiting the system due to laziness, many have no other option.
The fact is government has grown much too large and has been corrupted to serve the interests of large banks and corporations who pay off legislators at every turn.
Both Republicans and Democrats are guilty of serving the interests of these banks and corporations, and they often do it under the guise of “caring for the people.”
Social welfare is important, but it has grown way out of hand.
If we can:
1. eliminate corporate welfare (such as “stimulus packages” used to bail out companies that are “too big to fail”) and
2. greatly diminish the military industrial complex (we have troops stationed in hundreds of countries throughout the world) and bring the troops home to defend our borders, ending the perpetual warfare state
We will have more money to address these social problems and start real jobs programs that will last more than a few months.
These are just a few of the basic tenets that the actual grass-roots Tea Party started with; the movement that began with Ron Paul supporters back in 2007 has since been co-opted by the Republican Party.
DawgDad
October 21st, 2010
10:58 am
“We can’t continue pushing all our money up to the wealthy people.”
And on Nov. 2 we will be taking significant steps to get the criminals in Washington out of office and put an end to the looting of our Treasury for the benefit of a few wealthy people.
DawgDad
October 21st, 2010
11:01 am
RambleOn: Agreed, except that throwing money at social problems only exacerbates them, otherwise the programs and dependency wouldn’t continue to grow.
jm
October 21st, 2010
11:03 am
Thanks Kyle. Great column.
ROLL THE STATE BACK! There’s so much corruption in government largely because government controls so much money. Less money for the gov’t, less corruption, better economy. Its a virtuous cycle if the morons in Washington can ever figure it out. But the gatekeepers rarely like to take down their gates….
RambleOn84
October 21st, 2010
11:05 am
DawgDad,
I agree with you…throwing money at it is basically what we do now.
Ideally, the welfare programs should be used to help people in tough times get back on their feet. I’m just saying if we cut down on the corporate welfare and the warfare state, we would have money to implement different programs.
The poverty problem will never be completely solved, but it can be addressed much better than it currently is.
We need to quit giving people fish, and teach them how to fish.
Junior
October 21st, 2010
11:13 am
“This is how I think the situation with government dependency regarding working-age adults should be handled.
1. Loss of some civil rights while on the dole, especially voting.
2. Mandatory birth control.
3. If single & no children, mandatory, single sex group housing.
4. Absolutely no alcohol or drug use, frequent testing
5. Physical labor cleaning the streets or something similar. We are already paying to feed, house, and clothe them, the should be made to perform some work for the money.”
Who’s going to pay for the execution and enforcement of this program?
Finn McCool
October 21st, 2010
11:13 am
we’ve got a leading candidate for governor who’s looking to depend on the state for a place to live.
And the other candidate with ethics violations, he uses his position in government to enrich himself and his friends. That’s not dependent? His income is “dependent” on him having that position and being in a position to pull those strings. He’s not only getting paid to do a job, he’s also getting paid by cheating.
B
October 21st, 2010
11:14 am
Yesterday in the park I met a woman who was on disability. Couldn’t work. She had broken her back and had arthritis in her shoulders and arms. She gets 800.00 per month. Total. She’s white, by the way. What would she do without this money? Would you tea party supporters have her die? I never come away from this site with out feeling dirty.
Finn McCool
October 21st, 2010
11:16 am
Which one do you want to hire?
- one guy did the work, took the test, but failed cause he couldn’t get the math right.
- one guy turned in someone else’s work and got an A.
Which one do you want to promote? The cheater or the guy who did the work even if it wasn’t perfect? That’s what Republicans have to ask themselves in November. The cheater or the bad math kid?
paleo-neo-Carlinist
October 21st, 2010
11:21 am
RambleOn84, do you actually believe Coca Cola, Kroger, Merck, Bank of America, et al want people to learn to fish? Do you not see the contradiction in an economic model, which seeks profits (the pursuit of wealth), but also requires that in order for any enterprise to thrive (’create wealth” for owners, shareholders, and employees) it must cut costs, and the most costly operating expense is invariably payroll? “poverty” is not the problem. it is the hoarding of wealth (removing it from the system) that is the problem, and basically, all the government does is print more wealth (debt). think of the economy like a human body, and blood is “wealth”. you can’t remove wealth from circulation and replace it with water (a valueless fluid – think debt). there are “vampires” who feed on the blood of others; what some call parasites, but they’re not the poor (impoverished). we need to “teach” corporations how to manage the fish population, as opposed to “over-fishing”. this may sound radical or socialist, but it’s common sense
jm
October 21st, 2010
11:24 am
B – family…. that’s why they exist. And if she doesn’t have family that will take care of her, then something is amiss….
Then, she should be in subsidized housing, get basic medical care, and get food stamps to keep her from being homeless.
Jefferson
October 21st, 2010
11:25 am
There is no tea party, those folks are just being fooled, they are replublicans all day long with no better ideas than the republicans before them, end of the day they will do nothing different as those before them. Why don’t they have (T) after their names?
left wing
October 21st, 2010
11:26 am
Kyle @ 10:52 – I’m glad to see you say the recession has ended, something most of your conservative bretheren here can’t admit. GDP has been positive for 4 consecutive quarters now, which demonstrates the economy is expanding.
The problem is that we’re experiencing a jobless recovery. This has been true of the last 2 or 3, and the reasons why we can debate elsewhere.
I would also suggest that a lot of the problems with not only the recovery but the premise of your blog is the decline of median income in this country. In 2000 it was around $66 K; I beleive now it’s around $60K. And again, there are several reasons for this. A specific downward pressure on my income is offshoring. I work in IT and compete with people in India that can ask for 1/3 of what I charge and live like kings.
The bottom line is that there are many economic factors which are negatively impacting us now. Some we have direct control over (our debt), some indirect (outsourcing/offshoring) and some we have little or no control whatsoever (the collapse of Greece). All of these contribute to our high level of unemployment and depressed earnings.
You want to argue that we’re becoming more dependent on government. I suggest that for a lot of people, they don’t have a choice. If you want to really affect the situation, we need to do things to bring good paying jobs back to the US. I would start by getting rid of NAFTA and CAFTA. Corporations love this because they can get cheaper labor. But it comes at the cost of US jobs and affluence.
RambleOn84
October 21st, 2010
11:27 am
B,
Who exactly is advocating a total abolishment of welfare for those who need it?
Your straw man argument doesn’t hold any weight.
Yes, you have some individuals such as the person who advocates forced birth control who represent the lunatic fringe of the “Tea Party” (the version that is now run by neocons)…you also have some within the Democratic party who believe that minorities are so helpless that the only way to make things fair is to move to complete socialism. Are these positions much different? Not really.
The true libertarians, such as the ones who actually founded the original Tea Party movement, would eventually want to do away with the vast majority of welfare programs, but are realistic enough to realize that they must be gradually done away with so that people who are completely dependent aren’t left out on the street.
With fewer taxes going to government assistance programs (and corporate welfare and warfare, which are even more crucial to end as soon as possible), average people would have more money to donate and start local charities, which are run much more efficiently than any government assistance due to the sheer numbers of employees and the logistics of running nation-wide programs as opposed to small charities based in communities.
Americans are by and large very charitable people, and libertarians for the most part are some of the most charitable. It’s just that we want to have some say in how our donations are used and we want to hold the organizations we donate to accountable. The federal government, sadly, has no accountability (despite Obama’s promise to be the most transparent administration in history).
John
October 21st, 2010
11:33 am
There was a tea party Jefferson but one of the original founders now is blasting the tea party. It was started under Bush’s presidency stemming from TARP but has now been hijacked by the Republicans which it originally targeted.
“A financial blogger and ex-CEO credited with being one of the original “founders” of the Tea Party has come out against the movement, saying it has been hijacked by the very people it was protesting and is now obsessed with “guns, gays and God.”
In a “message” to the Tea Party Wednesday, Karl Denninger declared that he “ought to sue” anyone who uses the Tea Party name “for defamation.”
“Yeah, that’s a joke,” he writes. “But so are you. All of you. Especially Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Bob Barr, and douchebag groups such as the ‘Tea Party Patriots.’”
Denninger writes: “Tea Party my ass. This was nothing other than the Republican Party stealing the anger of a population that was fed up with the Republican Party’s own theft of their tax money at gunpoint to bail out the robbers of Wall Street and fraudulently redirecting it back toward electing the very people who stole all the ****ing money!”"
In a pointed critique that spares no targets, Denninger makes his voice clear:
I, and FedUpUSA, ought to sue anyone using this moniker for their so-called “political affiliation” for defamation.
Yeah, that’s a joke.
But so are you.
All of you.
Especially Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Bob Barr, and douchebag groups such as the “Tea Party Patriots.”
Denninger then proceeds to deconstruct what he sees as the hypocrisy of the mission statement from the “Tea Party Patriots” that claims to “oppose government intervention.” Denninger responds:
Oh, oppose government intervention eh? You mean, you oppose stringing up the people who break the law and steal people’s homes and wealth? Private business is only private up until it rips someone off.
Notice what’s missing from this mission statement and principles: Any mention of why I and others led people to mail tea bags to Congress and our President in the first place: rampant theft of over taxpayer money propping up FAILED private businesses.
RambleOn84
October 21st, 2010
11:33 am
paleo-neo-Carlinist,
No, those corporations probably don’t care whether or not any of us has enough money to survive, because they are currently given CORPORATE WELFARE, backed by our big government, to protect them from bankruptcy. They can make terrible decisions all day long (such as the ones made by GM, Chrysler, and all the big banks who gave out bad loans), but they are insulated from failure.
THIS is the problem, and this is what I am trying to convey. Cut the corporate welfare, and those companies will have a vested interest in our well-being. After all, they can’t make money off people too poor to buy their products, now can they?
You would see fewer jobs being exported overseas, because again, it is in their best interests for Americans to have jobs, and therefore more discretionary income.
j
October 21st, 2010
11:35 am
Kyle let’s talk about how much big business depends on government handouts. That’s the real problem.
DawgDad
October 21st, 2010
11:36 am
“her fellow dimwitted floosie, Sarah Palin”
You are entitled to your own opinion but don’t expect us to take you seriously when you throw this crap out there.
RambleOn84
October 21st, 2010
11:37 am
The government itself is the biggest free-loader of all…the more taxes we pay, the bigger they get. The bigger they get, the more money they need.
The Tea Party movement was never about attacking people on welfare…it was about attacking the federal free-loaders in Washington, who generate no wealth but consume most of it.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
October 21st, 2010
11:38 am
RambleOn84, excellent post at 11:27, and specific nod for using lower case l when using the word libertarian. therein lies the rub, right? everybody is trying to have a chair when the music stops, and the government, like a drug dealer, knows if it can cultivate dependence, it has power. so pick your poison. Ike warned of the “undue influence” of the military industrial complex, but this only applies when the boogeyman is Communists, terrorists, or drug cartels. there is also an environmental-industrial complex, which believes AGW and climate change are the threat and cap n trade or fewer plastic bottles are the solution. there is a medical-insurance complex, which wants to “wipe out depression” with pills, or ensure all Americans are healthy, but the solution does not lie in the individual, it lies in legislation which ensures (not insures) that first and foremost, insurance premiums will be paid and healthcare providers will be paid. and as I said, the goverment simply keeps pumping more air (debt) into the many “balloons” while the specific “special interests” in housing, banking, defense, healthcare look for ways to game the sysytem, and siphon off what wealth they can before the bubble breaks (recession/depression/market correction).
paleo-neo-Carlinist
October 21st, 2010
11:41 am
DawgDad, and you are free to fantasize all you like about Sarah Palin. she’s neo-con eye candy and nothing more. She’s Erin Andrews on the sidelines of a political game.
DawgDad
October 21st, 2010
11:41 am
“[Tea Party] is now obsessed with “guns, gays and God.”
This is factually incorrect. The Tea Party goes out of its way with redundantly redundant reemphasis of it’s sole focus on economic issues and limited Constitutional government. Try attending a meeting and see for yourself.
RambleOn84
October 21st, 2010
11:45 am
You are absolutely right, paleo-neo-carlinist…
The fact is that people living on welfare ranks about #100 on the list of things we should be concerned about.
Every major industry (pharmaceutical, environmental, military, banking are among the largest) is looking for a handout, and the federal stooges are all-too-eager to oblige as long as their backs are being scratched.
And each one of their “welfare checks” cost a lot more than the ones given to single moms with 10 kids, the common “enemy” vilified by Republican politicians.
DawgDad
October 21st, 2010
11:46 am
“DawgDad, and you are free to fantasize all you like about Sarah Palin. ”
I don’t “fantasize” about Sarah Palin. I share most of her core political beliefs and support her efforts.
Do you “fantasize” about Democratic leaders like Obama (some did), Pelosi, and Reid? I wouldn’t expect you to, so why do you think I fantasize about Palin? You seriously need to understand who conservatives are and what they believe and STOP drinking the leftist propaganda characterizing us as racist, bigoted, sexist, homophobic, hate-filled “white trash”, even if you don’t agree with us politically. After all, you need us to pay for your programs. The left hasn’t played nice lately and that’s going to bite them in the rear.
RambleOn84
October 21st, 2010
11:47 am
DawgDad,
There are a lot of good people in the Tea Party, but you have to face facts: it has become a wing of the Republican Party, and the Republican Party is just as guilty as the Democratic Party when it comes to the destruction of this country.
John
October 21st, 2010
11:50 am
In 2006, Koch Industries owner Charles Koch revealed to the Wall Street Journal’s Stephen Moore that he coordinates the funding of the conservative infrastructure of front groups, political campaigns, think tanks, media outlets and other anti-government efforts through a twice annual meeting of wealthy right-wing donors. He also confided to Moore, who is funded through several of Koch’s ventures, that his true goal is to strengthen the “culture of prosperity” by eliminating “90%” of all laws and government regulations. Although it is difficult to quantify the exact amount Koch alone has funneled to right-wing fronts, some studies have pointed toward $50 million he has given alone to anti-environmental groups. Recently, fronts funded by Charles and his brother David have received scrutiny because they have played a pivotal role in the organizing of the anti-Obama Tea Parties and the promotion of virulent far right lawmakers like Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC). (David Koch praised DeMint and gave him a “Washington Award” shortly after the senator promised to “break” Obama by making health reform his “Waterloo.”)
While the Koch brothers — each worth over $21.5 billion — have certainly underwritten much of the right, their hidden coordination with other big business money has gone largely unnoticed. ThinkProgress has obtained a memo outlining the details of the last Koch gathering held in June of this year. The memo, along with an attendee list of about 210 people, shows the titans of industry — from health insurance companies, oil executives, Wall Street investors, and real estate tycoons — working together with conservative journalists and Republican operatives to plan the 2010 election, as well as ongoing conservative efforts through 2012. According to the memo, David Chavern, the number two at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Fox News hate-talker Glenn Beck also met with these representatives of the corporate elite. In an election season with the most undisclosed secret corporate giving since the Watergate-era, the memo sheds light on the symbiotic relationship between extremely profitable, multi-billion dollar corporations and much of the conservative infrastructure. The memo describes the prospective corporate donors as “investors,” and it makes clear that many of the Republican operatives managing shadowy, undisclosed fronts running attack ads against Democrats were involved in the Koch’s election-planning event.
DawgDad
October 21st, 2010
11:56 am
RambleOn: Don’t fall down from shock, but your spot-on with your last comment. Yes, the Tea Party has operated primarily within the Republican Party. Yes, we ABSOLUTELY agree the Republicans have been guilty when it comes to the destruction of this country. We’d disagree on the “just as guilty as the Democratic Party” because the Dems are leading us deeper into socialism and we are working within the Republican Party to turn it in the other direction. If there were still true conservative Democrats as there were when I was growing up the Tea Party movement might be working with the Democrats. Sadly, they get silenced and cast aside by the Dem leadership. And, if the Repbulicans wander back off the reservation like they did during the Bush years you’ll see an all-out war within the Party and a likely split. Don’t get your hopes up too high on that helping the left though.
DawgDad
October 21st, 2010
11:58 am
“He also confided to Moore, who is funded through several of Koch’s ventures, that his true goal is to strengthen the “culture of prosperity” by eliminating “90%” of all laws and government regulations. ”
Aim high. I like that.
November
October 21st, 2010
12:00 pm
(An aside to those who bristle when I call Social Security an “entitlement”: Of course I know you paid payroll taxes, as I do now. I also know that these taxes won’t cover the benefits you and I are slated to receive.)
Yeah, Kyle……you’re right and do you know why you’re right? Our stupid, idiodic federal gubmint decided years ago that they needed the SS Trust Fund Monies for their general purpose use. If that money had been left alone to earn a good return, the SS Fund would be in great shape and would be able to cover the benefits that I now receive and you will? someday. Remember to vote on November 2nd
RambleOn84
October 21st, 2010
12:00 pm
DawgDad,
I sincerely hope the Tea Party candidates will keep true to what they say.
I am not a Democrat by any means.
I am a libertarian, which, if anything, is closer to TRUE conservative ideals than either mainstream party right now.
I hope you’re right…but I’ve heard the same song and dance routine out of Republicans for too many years: “Small government” out of one side of their mouths while they keep increasing safety nets for large corporations and perpetuating warfare.
I guess I’m saying the Democrats and Republicans are pretty much just alike right now
paleo-neo-Carlinist
October 21st, 2010
12:02 pm
RambleOn84. you sound dangerously paleo-neo-Carlinist (lowe case p and n, but Carlin is a proper noun). what people can’t seem to understand is, many of the assistance programs actually help the economy. when a person receives public assistance, his/her home doesn’t go into foreclosure (effecting ALL housing prices in the area). when he/she uses food stamps to purchase groceries it keep the guy bagging groceries or stocking the shelves at the local Publix employed, and also helps out the guy who drives the Coca Cola truck, or works at the Hormel canning facility. the problem is; at some point these “loans” must be repaid. as I said, I majored in History, not Economics, but in order for the economy to be healthy, “profits” cannot be siphoned off. I know the pursuit of wealth and a comfortable life is what drives capitalism, but when 10% of the population controls (and by control, I mean, does not spend or re-invest) 85% of the wealth, the “body” is sick. again, I don’t know the answer, because anything short of a completel meltdown, anarchy, and recalibration of the dollar (what Ron Paul and the Austrians call “sound money”), we’re just going to continue this bubble/burst/bailout game of musical chairs, with the Federal Government printing more money (pumping more water into America’s veins). in cases of accidents or disease, it is sometimes necessary to infuse new blood (debt) and when managed judicously, debt can be an “asset” and not a liability, but unfortunately, and contrary to Gordon Gecco; greed is not good. greed is selfish ans self-serving, and counter-productive to a healthy economy.
DawgDad
October 21st, 2010
12:06 pm
Ramble: It’s incumbent on us as citizens and voters to hold our political leaders accountable. The Republicans got slapped around and then down in 2006 and 2008; they did deserve that. Look at the approval polls; vast, vast majority of people are STILL unsatisfied with Congress and the direction of the country. Much more cleanup of irresponsible politicians and continued diligence is needed.
John
October 21st, 2010
12:08 pm
“[Tea Party] is now obsessed with “guns, gays and God.”
This is factually incorrect. The Tea Party goes out of its way with redundantly redundant reemphasis of it’s sole focus on economic issues and limited Constitutional government. Try attending a meeting and see for yourself.”
Let’s see Tea Party candidate Carl Paladino makes anti-gay statements. Tea Partiers Christine O’Donnell, Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Sharron Angle as well as a host of others talking about God and guns…making these an issue.
From the Tea Party Patriots website…
“Tea Party Patriots, Inc. (”TPP”) is a non-partisan, non-profit social welfare organization dedicated to furthering the common good and general welfare of the people of the United States. TPP furthers this goal by educating the public and promoting the principles of fiscal responsibility, constitutionally limited government and free markets. Tea Party Patriots has not endorsed candidates for public office. ”
They have endorsed several candidates, which are all running as Republicans.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
October 21st, 2010
12:10 pm
DawgDad,
I don’t “fantasize” about Sarah Palin. I share most of her core political beliefs and support her efforts.
What exactly are her “core political beliefs”? She’s a snake-juggling loon who is a neo-con fundraiser and motivational speaker and nothing more. don’t get me wrong, fundraising and cheerleading are key components to any political movement, but she has no “core”. she (like O’Connell) is shallow and intellectually bankrupt.
Do you “fantasize” about Democratic leaders like Obama (some did), Pelosi, and Reid? I wouldn’t expect you to, so why do you think I fantasize about Palin?
I can’t even answer this one. I have been critical of all three, and I have at times referred to Obama as Bush v 2.0.
You seriously need to understand who conservatives are and what they believe and STOP drinking the leftist propaganda characterizing us as racist, bigoted, sexist, homophobic, hate-filled “white trash”,
Google the words paleconservative and neoconservative. It is you who appears to not undertsand what it means to be “conservative”.
even if you don’t agree with us politically. After all, you need us to pay for your programs. The left hasn’t played nice lately and that’s going to bite them in the rear.
see my original post to KW and subsequent posts to RambleOn84. dial down the “we:” nonsense. I (and others) have paid for just as many DoD, programs as you have paid for Food Stamps and Section 8 housing. the fact that you view this as some sort of a spitting contest is the very reason I dispise people like O Connell and Pallin (and Obama, Pelosi and Reid). they’re opportunists and political profiteers, and nothing more.
left wing
October 21st, 2010
12:11 pm
paleo-neo-Carlinist @ 12:02 – I did major in economics and you are correct. People living at the poverty level, getting unemployment checks have a high propensity to spend everything. This means the money goes back immediately into the economy and has a very high multiplier. Conversely, people in upper incomes, who save, in effect take that money out of the economy. While saving is a good idea for everyone, that money has a relatively low multiplier.
But as I said above, the problems with the economy now (IMO) stem from outsourcing/offshoring of our jobs, which resulted from NAFTA and CAFTA. This, plus the immense concentration of wealth in the top 1% of this country are causing a huge imbalance.
A Hearty Cheese Sauce
October 21st, 2010
12:18 pm
Koch Brother, Wayan Brothers or whatever doesnt matter. We are the Tea Party and we are coming for you and you and yes you too. Get on the train or be runover by it.
Multipoos Rule
October 21st, 2010
12:21 pm
Why do we have to endure 2 years of this garbage from you right wingnuts everytime a Democrat gets elected president? If McCain had been elected, except for health care reform, nothing would be different (except for having Sarah Palin as VP). You guys wouldn’t say anything about how bad the government is, because you would be the government. Makes me what to vote Republican just to shut you idiots up.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
October 21st, 2010
12:30 pm
left wing, and as one who exists in the labor market, if you eliminate any significant distinction between “capital” and jobs – that is to say, assign an economic or financial value to a gainfully employed American, then you view offshoring or outsourcing very much like the hoarding (removing) of wealth from the system. I have thrown around the term socialist plutocracy, but maybe a better term is; globalist capitalism. Capitalism may have worked (for better or worse, and robber barons, labor unions and sweat shops aside) within the context of the United States of America and our Constitution, but by the end of the 20th century and as the 21st century unfolds, the “global economy” and the emerging economies like China (1 billion people) India, and radical Islam’s refusual to join the modern world (which is ironically bolstered by the modern petro-economy) and you have a perfect storm, which will not be avoided (or survived) via something as base and shallow as the tea party (or Obama and “Socialism” if that’s your bag)
Laurie
October 21st, 2010
12:34 pm
“First, it’s a fiscal problem to have fewer than three taxpayers providing for each effective ward of the state, plus themselves and their own families.”
I agree. However, I don’t think this is from lack a people wanting to have employment with a level of income that would allow them to be one of contributers. But we have more working poor than ever, and fewer people hoarding the largest percent of American wealth. If we could increase the wealth and size of the middle class, than dependence on government services would decrease.
Recent Grad
October 21st, 2010
12:40 pm
Liberals are fools and conservatives are mean. Both sides are logically impaired and lack good sense. Somewhere between the two extremes is balance and harmony. Why is it so elusive? I’m just about sick of the entire human race. Is it 2012 yet?
left wing
October 21st, 2010
12:42 pm
pnC @ 12:30 – Globalist capitalism isn’t a bad term; I prefer multinational corporations. They care about profits and little else. Because of technological innovations (the internet) or reduced shipping costs, they can get their labor overseas for a fraction of what it would cost here.
Now, before the conservatives start shouting ‘UNIONS MAKE LABOR TOO EXPENSIVE’ or ‘GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS RAISE COSTS’, let’s keep in mind that for the past 80 years or so, the US has experienced a very high standard of living, and it was the job of unions to find the market niche for the price of their labor (relative to say, bank teller, taxi driver, engineer, etc). Plus we have government regulations to make sure workers have decent working conditions, something not enjoyed by our asian competitors.
Our economic problem as I see it, is that our standard of living, the price of our housing, et al, has been established over the last 80 years (maybe 220 years would be more fair). This standard predicates the price we need for our labor. But now the multinationals are ‘undercutting’ that price, causing market upheaval here (median income dropping, higher unemployment). And we (liberals and conservatives) gave them the power through NAFTA and CAFTA, which are essentially destroying the American way of life.
I gotta leave now; Thursday is my travel day. Flying back to Atlanta later. Enjoy.
Rockerbabe
October 21st, 2010
12:59 pm
Just because one does not pay income tax, does not mean a citizen doesn’t pay taxes.
-If you own a car and use it, you pay ad valoreum, insurance and gas taxes; live in metro Atlanta and you pay a tax called an emission test for your car.
-If you live in a house or rent an apartment, you pay all sorts of taxes; overly or covertly, but you pay nonetheless.
-If you shop for clothes or food or medicine, you pay sales tax.
-If you buy all sorts of other goods, you pay a sales tax, a recycling tax and maybe an excise tax.
-If you use a phone, the internet, have cable or use a DVD service you pay taxes.
Dependence on government has come about because the private marketplace has NOT produced wages and benefits to such a sufficient level, that citizen can survive alone. Wages have been stagnant since Reagin; benefits are disappearing at an alarming rate. The cost of goods and services that the average citizen needs keeps going up and up even though wages and salaries do not for the 97% of us at the bottom of the income scale. For many, what little government assistance there is, is the only thing between death, homelessness and hunger, despite having a paying job. Many work, but are unable to find full-time work. So, Kyle, smarty pants, what is a citizen who isn’t in the top 3% to do?
As far as social security is concerned, the politicans have fu#ked that up. Private penisons are a relic of the past and few of us in private work sector have that benefit. So how are we to retire in our old age? Same with Medicare. Kyle, you seem woefully ignorant of the history surrounding these programs and of the citizens who actually work and produce in this country. Maybe you should educate yourself on the history and goals of these programs and why they are more than worth saving, even in this time and place.
John
October 21st, 2010
1:05 pm
Google 2.4% Rate Shows How $60 Billion Lost to Tax Loopholes.
Google Inc. cut its taxes by $3.1 billion in the last three years using a technique that moves most of its foreign profits through Ireland and the Netherlands to Bermuda.
Google, the owner of the world’s most popular search engine, uses a strategy that has gained favor among such companies as Facebook Inc. and Microsoft Corp. The method takes advantage of Irish tax law to legally shuttle profits into and out of subsidiaries there, largely escaping the country’s 12.5 percent income tax.
The earnings wind up in island havens that levy no corporate income taxes at all. Companies that use the Double Irish arrangement avoid taxes at home and abroad as the U.S. government struggles to close a projected $1.4 trillion budget gap and European Union countries face a collective projected deficit of 868 billion euros.
The tactics of Google and Facebook depend on “transfer pricing,” paper transactions among corporate subsidiaries that allow for allocating income to tax havens while attributing expenses to higher-tax countries. Such income shifting costs the U.S. government as much as $60 billion in annual revenue, according to Kimberly A. Clausing, an economics professor at Reed College in Portland, Oregon.
Southern Comfort
October 21st, 2010
1:08 pm
paleo @ 10:54
Amen!!! Nobody wants to address the extent of dependence outside of “social” programs.
JLK@ @ 10:19
Agreed. There has to be some serious tightening on the budget. The problem is that the Left doesn’t want to cut social programs, and the right doesn’t want to cut into defense or corporate programs. I personally think there should be some cutting in all of them.
TINSTAAFL @ 10:14
I see your point, and understand what you’re saying. As per your example, that wealth that you create by sharpening the stick may be personal wealth, but it may not mean a thing to the caveman in the cave next to you if he already has one or has fire. The true wealth that you have created is achieved when you sell that stick or gathered more food with that stick than everyone else. Then you have something that not everyone else has. If everyone has a sharpened stick, all is equal.
Churchill's MOM
October 21st, 2010
1:13 pm
When are you going to write about Chuck Donovan? Johnny Isakson is just a big government, big spending RINO. We have a choice but no one cares.
http://www.donovanforsenate.com/
12 Days To V-Day
October 21st, 2010
1:24 pm
Well of course the culture of dependence is growing. That’s one of the many stupidities liberalism! (Along with being hypocrites like the Googlelibs avoiding corporate income taxes). Liberals are looking for some sort of socialist neo-Marxist utopia where the government owns and controls all the money and wealth in this nation. Everyone should share equally the wealth that according to liberalism really belongs to everyone.
How some mindless blithering charlatan idiot (a liberal) can validate that John works harder than Joe yet Joe deserves some of John’s money is beyond reasoning. It is not American. It’s Marxism. Thank God Americans have woken up to the Democrap destruction machine led by the Three Stooges: Obama, Pelosi, and Reid.
The Chosen One’s Gallup approval has hit an all time low at 44.7%. And before anyone states that Reagan’s was even lower (which it was at 41.7%), I will submit that Reagan had a plan to get the nation back on course after four years of a disastrous Carter administration. Obama on the other hand is just making things worse in America, no thanks to additional help from the Pelosi and Reid rats. But that’s going to soon change. Heh.
GO FOX NEWS FULL TIME JUAN WILLIAMS!! You are a fair minded liberal. Don’t let those bed wetting libtards at NPR/PB.S. bother you ever again. Good riddance. Can we get the taxpayer funding removed from that liberal media outlet run by liberals? That would be great. I’ll never donate one red cent to them but will watch cooking shows and listen to classical music for free.
Peter
October 21st, 2010
1:32 pm
Dependant on WAR Kyle ? Isn’t that what you mean….the WAR party ?
So the few can get rich, and the masses of American’s can suffer and get bilked, as American infrastructure goes to heck in a hand basket ?
Or maybe you are talking about Deal the Republican candidate, who depends on special Government contracts for his staying above water financially ?
Jefferson
October 21st, 2010
1:38 pm
Hey 12, your strings are showing.
Chuck Norris love CheezWhiz
October 21st, 2010
1:43 pm
“Google Inc. cut its taxes by $3.1 billion in the last three years using a technique that moves most of its foreign profits through Ireland and the Netherlands to Bermuda.”
Well congratulations to Google. I applaud their efforts!!