Quiet plan to extend Ga. 400 tolls sends loud message (Updated)
Update on Friday: The toll plan passed, as expected. The AJC’s news story is available here. And here are a few comments of my own about what went down today:
1. From the news story: “In order to satisfy the original promise that the tolls would come down in 2011, [Gov. Sonny] Perdue said, SRTA will see if it can suspend the tolls briefly in 2011. When they went back online, he said, they would be a ‘new’ toll. That was suggested by one former Atlanta city councilman, he said, Robb Pitts.”
My comment: That’s just insulting. It may make even more of a mockery of the original promise to take down the toll, and it seems legally questionable since that’s not what the SRTA board voted on. But it also makes a mockery of SRTA’s alleged concern, voiced by a lawyer for the authority at this morning’s DOT board meeting, that it would be unsafe to have “cars trying to speed through there at full speed” if the toll-plaza structure were still in place but the toll was not being collected. So, that’s considered dangerous — but it would be safe enough to only do it for a brief period of time, if that counted as throwing a bone to barking citizens? Please.
2. The Political Insider, Jim Galloway, quoted the governor as saying today that “it’s easy to be a political populist and say ‘broken promises, no trust.’ ”
My comment: If demanding that government stick to its promises and respect the public’s trust now count as “political populism,” the pitchforks may be here sooner than we thought. If the governor truly thinks his plan is what’s best for Georgians, he ought to have the confidence to make his case to the people who pay the tolls — and not join other officials in hiding behind a time crunch that they created themselves in waiting until now to bring the issue up for a vote.
There was nothing stopping them from bringing this issue before the DOT, and then SRTA, a month or two ago. It’s not as if the end of the tolling period has sneaked up on anyone; we’ve known that the date was June 2011 since Perdue was still a Democrat.
3. I attended the DOT board meeting this morning. Now, I have covered any number of governmental meetings and hearings in my career, but this was by far the most embarrassing display I’ve ever seen.
The chairman of the DOT board was so obviously intent on arriving at the predetermined outcome (passage of the resolution to extend the lease of Ga. 400 to SRTA) that he was in constant danger of skipping procedural votes altogether, and didn’t even allow debate on the final motion to extend the lease. It was a spectacle to hear board members participating by teleconference, because they’d received such short notice of the special called meeting, complaining that they couldn’t even hear what was going on. Then, some of them tried to deny the board a quorum by hanging up their phones en masse (it didn’t work).
It was like watching the Keystone Cops conduct a Kabuki enactment of a kangaroo court. It was pathetic, even from a confirmed skeptic’s perspective.
In any case, here’s what I originally wrote Wednesday:
Politicians aren’t renowned for long-term thinking. In the quiet plan to extend the Georgia 400 toll, we’re witnessing a short-term mistake that may have lasting consequences.
As toll booths went up on Ga. 400 between I-285 and Lenox Road in Buckhead, they came with a promise that the levy would end in 20 years, when the bonds to pay for the highway’s southward extension were paid off. Next June marks the blessed anniversary.
Yet Friday, the boards of the Department of Transportation and the State Roads and Tollway Authority will review a plan to keep charging the toll for perhaps eight more years. Actually, it’s worse than that: For motorists without a prepaid “Cruise Card,” the standard toll could be doubled to $1.
If the AJC had not reported the arrangement last Friday, you may not have heard about it until after the votes were counted.
The plan apparently was to keep citizens in the dark about the toll extension. Details have been hard to come by. Before citizens can vet the proposals, the DOT board may vote to prolong its lease of Ga. 400 to SRTA, which in turn may vote to approve new bonds for construction on the highway and an extended period of tolling to pay for it.
It’s suspicious, not least because there’s a good chance that the public might actually favor some of the dozen projects on the list.
Here’s guessing that, for instance, those who pay the toll would favor a ramp to connect Ga. 400 with the northbound lanes of I-85. Improvements to other exits along the highway would also be welcome.
Commuters might even consider such projects worth a few more years of paying tolls. Eight years? Probably not, given that the toll booths collect some $20 million a year, and the projects are expected to cost far less than $160 million. Not to mention that toll revenues through June 2011 already were projected to exceed what is needed to pay off the bonds by tens of millions of dollars.
But state officials didn’t want to ask us. Why?
Maybe they think they know what’s best for us. Maybe they didn’t think they could win the argument. Maybe they think that, as long as they have the votes on the two agencies’ boards of directors, they don’t need the public’s input. Maybe there’s something within the plan that they wanted to keep out of sight as long as possible.
None of these are charitable explanations. But it’s hard to give state officials the benefit of the doubt here, given their reticence.
In any case, it’s a curious situation in which to find Gov. Sonny Perdue, who chairs the SRTA board.
One of the biggest knocks on Perdue’s tenure has been his failure, until his last legislative session, to produce a comprehensive plan to alleviate traffic gridlock in Atlanta and beyond. Now he’s leading a bum rush to fix up Ga. 400?
Even now, the next governor’s first term will be halfway over before we see any fruits from Perdue’s plan, a series of regional referendums in 2012 on a one-cent sales tax to fund transportation. And that’s assuming voters in at least one region approve the tax.
Speaking of the tax:
Every supporter of the sales tax for transportation with whom I’ve spoken emphasizes that the key issue is public trust: Which projects will be done? How can we be sure that the information we’re given about costs, benefits and so on is accurate? Do we trust our elected officials to keep the promises they make?
Atlantans might like the projects that end up in the sales-tax proposal, just as they might like the ones slated for an extended 400 toll. But the case for simply trusting our transportation planners may die in two board meetings Friday.
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177 comments Add your comment
Mr. D
September 22nd, 2010
7:50 pm
Just another example of tax and spend conservatives hiding the details until it is all a done DEAL(ha!)
Dave
September 22nd, 2010
8:36 pm
When I read the original piece, I was struck by the odd secrecy coupled with the need for especially the I-85 exchange. It makes sense to build it, so what else is planned for the continued money stream that doesn’t make sense that’s being hidden? Or, am I just used to expecting the worst from Georgia government?
Linda
September 22nd, 2010
9:00 pm
History will be made just forty-something days from now. Why are you zeroing in on a Ga. road?
Roy-Is-A-Crook
September 22nd, 2010
9:00 pm
Do ya remember a former crooked guv who stole millions from the ga 400 toll road fund to benefit his developer cronies building that pos atlantic-station? When caught, the fat crook said, “well, nobody told me ah couldn’t” — that money was never repaid. How about a story by kyle about that deal?
Independent
September 22nd, 2010
9:05 pm
I remember when 400 was first proposed and the State swore that the toll would only apply until it was paid off. There were people then that said it was all a lie, and now it looks like they were correct. So the next time the DOT want the public to give approval to a new project, the public should just say “Heck NO! We know you are lying to us because you lied o us before.”
Sonny
September 22nd, 2010
9:09 pm
What a sorry state. Toll here…toll here…What’s the next tax they are going to throw at us….That’s right another $10 tax to fund hospitals…Can’t wait to find a job to get out of this state!
buck@gon
September 22nd, 2010
9:09 pm
Kudos Kyle!
You honor your readers with intelligent commentary and perspicacious awareness.
Because I don’t ride that road much, I’m flummoxed by some of what I’ve heard. On one hand, do some people actually think that having a toll is good because it would cut down on traffic? On the other hand, is this propaganda from government sources to justify a toll and grab more money?
I’m all in favor of tolls if there is indeed some benefit. In fact, I think we ought to have more–we will need more–if we are going to meet our driving needs, given that EPA or the feds won’t let us build roads on their terms (or because they don’t have money).
The secrecy does make one suspicious.
barking frog
September 22nd, 2010
9:31 pm
No one is forced to use a toll road. If you do
not gain by the use, go elsewhere.
Karl Marx
September 22nd, 2010
9:34 pm
If you think the Republican legislature is listening and will not renege on the promise to remove the toll booth once the road is paid I remind you they all sign a pledge not to raise taxes. The Hospital bed tax, and massive fee increases I guess don’t count. Not only will the toll booths remain they are going to stick it to people who pay in cash by doubling their toll to a dollar. How do you know a Republican State Legislator is lying. Cause they said they believe in smaller government and lower taxes… HA ha Ha ha hA HA ha Ha ha……. That’s funny…….
Fed Up
September 22nd, 2010
9:42 pm
Perdue you are pathetic. And a classic example of why we no longer trust government. But why would you care, now that you’re leaving. But a promise is a promise except when you are dealing with a revenue stream. Take the toll down. Use the extra $40.0 mil you overbilled us and build your 400/85 interchange and leave us alone. Maybe this will keep Sam (who has now become as crooked as Perdue) happy. Why do the few that use this 6 mile stretch of road (and personally paid for) now responsible for ALL improvements on 400 Corridor???? But any improvements on 75/85/20 are paid with taxpayer money. Agian, just PATHETIC. Congrats all you REPUBLICANS. I am not voting for a single one this election.
Robert
September 22nd, 2010
9:53 pm
Personally I think this is another failure for elected officals to honor agreements made to the public, and they have been saying for years the tolls would end. Even if some of these projects were to be completed with additional tolls, I don’t see everyone using some of the new projects even making it as far as the toll boths so I’m now going to pay for them to use the roadway in areas that I will never use myself. Then raising the toll to $1 for cash makes me even angrier! I stopped using the pass because I was always being charged on my account without statements etc. I used the toll the same number of times but one month I was charged after a few weeks only to be charged again a few weeks later. There was never a statement letting me know my balance etc. I went to cash also saving the fee I was charged for the window device. Making you use a window pass is another way they are making even more money that they aren’t telling folks! What another sad example of idiots running this state, in my opinion. No wonder Georgia has become the laughing stock of the country!
MiltonMan
September 22nd, 2010
10:10 pm
Let’s hope that the dope Rat Roy doesn’t get elected. He will make sure that he raids the GA 400 toll monies again to probably build some crappy project in South Cobb.
MiltonMan
September 22nd, 2010
10:12 pm
Fed Up – bitching about paying more but probably votes for every bond & SPLOST.
David
September 23rd, 2010
12:24 am
I will just not pay any toll after the deadline. Sue me.
arnold
September 23rd, 2010
5:02 am
Has any toll project been allowed to expire on the promised due date? Has any promise by a politician ever been kept?
Jimmy62
September 23rd, 2010
6:05 am
Lying scum, that’s all they are. I will never again believe a word coming from any politician’s mouth. Have they ever been honest? Is there a promise they will ever keep?
I hope Sam Massell is now remembered as a corrupt liar rather than the great man he used to be. Shame on him for supporting this travesty!
If everyone just ignored the toll and went through the Cruise Card lanes… Well all I know is I was promised something, that the toll would go away. It’s paid off, so there is no more toll, whatever the politicians may think. We need to hold them to their words.
I’m so used to be lied to by politicians, but this one just really gets under my skin. Maybe because it hits so close to home and because there’s no wiggle room here. They lied, it can’t be hid from or rationalized, they are liars and not to be trusted or respected.
Independent
September 23rd, 2010
6:23 am
It reminds me of Cherokee county in the early 90’s. The county commissioners had all property re-appraised at much higher appraisals. When it came time for notices to go out and people could contest their new appraisals, the commissioners said “don’t worry, yes, your appraisal went up, but we are going to roll back the millage rate, so your net taxes won’t increase.” After the deadline for contesting the appraisals had passed, the commisioners said ” we are sorry, after review of the county’s financial books, we decided we need to leave the millage rate where it is.” This resulted in a de facto tax increase. But when the county commissioner came up for re-election, that’s right, they campaigned on the slogan that “they had never supported or enacted a tax increase.” And these were REPUBLICANS!
Ayn Rant
September 23rd, 2010
6:24 am
Everybody’s fed up with everything in Georgia and America! The politicians just don’t understand what we want. We demand lower taxes, more services, better planning, eliminating the federal deficit, and paying off the national debt! Why is that so hard to understand?
I’ve got a great idea: let’s just keep re-electing the politicians who’ve created the present mess! Perdue can’t run again, but Deal is his clone. Isakson is running unopposed; he hasn’t done anything at all the last 6 years, so he can be trusted to give us what we want in the next six. Certainly, the incumbent congressmen from the party of NO can be counted on to give us the legislation of our dreams in the next two years.
Electing the full slate of Republican politicians will maintain the status quo, and eliminate any possibility of planning or doing anything for the common good. Shucks, after November the elected politicians will be fully occupied planning their 2012 campaigns!
Poor dumb Georgia! Poor dumb America!
Road Scholar
September 23rd, 2010
6:29 am
Kyle:”One of the biggest knocks on Perdue’s tenure has been his failure, until his last legislative session, to produce a comprehensive plan to alleviate traffic gridlock in Atlanta and beyond. ”
Kyle where is that plan, with specifics? Allowing locals to tax themselves is NOT a plan. It’s a possible revenue source.
You are right that any new “tax” should be tied to a specific project list with specific deliverables and schedules. ARC in Atlanta will, along with GDOT, GRTA, and probably the Chamber of commerce, “partner” rolling out the list of projects and getting feedback on which ones should be included in the “package”. This list should include an assessment of what the benefits will be.
Now back to my original comment: Are you refer to Fast Forward which was initiated in 2002? Those projects have been completed with NOTHING since then. When Perdue came into office he pledge new funding for transportation. Where is it? GDOT geared up design activities, w/o any resulting monies. Also remember he bonded most projects which took future monies away from additional projects and also had an interest cost.
Road Scholar
September 23rd, 2010
6:33 am
With all the demand for lower taxes, what services do you want cut? What is our effective tax rates for the different income levels; this means including All the deductions people take. And how do they compare to past years? This recurring mantra has not been explained as to the effects besides it “puts more money into the taxpayers hands”. Duh! What does the analysis show?
Tyler Durden
September 23rd, 2010
6:51 am
Will anyone who’s surprised by this please send me your email address; I have some great beachfront real estate opportunities in Kansas that you simply cannot pass up…
Filster
September 23rd, 2010
6:56 am
Dear GA politicians:
I will be paying attention to everyone who votes to keep the 40 toll, and if you are in any position I can vote against in November or any other time, count on the fact that I will.
Rawmilkdrinker
September 23rd, 2010
7:11 am
Surprise, Surprise! Ask Jacksonville FL residents about the temporary toll to pay for the bridge over St Johns river or New Jersey residents about the “temporary” tolls on the New Jersey turnpike. As the old fella in Jacksonville told me, “the lying SoBs said when the bridge was paid for, the toll would cease.”
Willie
September 23rd, 2010
7:12 am
If we renew the toll, let’s move the plaza south of Leonx.
Jack
September 23rd, 2010
7:34 am
So…..there you have it, the perfect example why I find myself more closely alligned with the Tea Party than the Republican Party.
The republicans, in their “plan” for the future, pledge to roll back spending to the 2008 level. The 2008 level. They have pledged to spend money at a level that was continuing to increase the federal deficit, just not as much as they think the deficit is increasing now!!!
Wow!! Makes you want to run out and get busy putting these fiscal “hawks” in office doesn’t it??
Let’s make sure and reward these fellows in November for their pledge to spend recklessly, just not as recklessly as the democrats!!
Rap Star
September 23rd, 2010
7:51 am
Someone on an AJC blog the other day described this perfectly – politcal herpes. Once you have the tax there is no getting rid of it. Vote for the RIGHT PERSON, not the party!
Seriously
September 23rd, 2010
7:53 am
Typical political crap…the best way to get back at them is to vote their asses out of office.
GEORGIA97
September 23rd, 2010
7:55 am
When it comes to the golden dome downtown, if a$sholes could fly that would be the airport.
carlosgvv
September 23rd, 2010
8:00 am
Setting up a toll road is like installing a Communist dictator. Once it’s done it’s next to impossible to undo.
Zig Zag Zell
September 23rd, 2010
8:10 am
Seems like a good idea to extend the toll. Although, I just did 5 lines of coke, a handful of Xanax and a jug of Maker’s Mark.
Obama Bin Lyin
September 23rd, 2010
8:12 am
Before I’d trust a politician I would rather let a serial killer poke out my eyes with an ice pick, scoop out my brains, drop in a candle, and make me into a Jack-O-Lantern.
Michael D
September 23rd, 2010
8:26 am
Public trust? Give me a break. They said trust us 20 years ago when they promised that the toll booths would come down after the bond were paid off. The public officials involved with this are just plain lying. The toll plaza should come down as promised and not a second later. Something happens to otherwise good people when they get elected they just lose there integrity somehow. No wonder that people do not have faith in public officials when they cannot even keep a simple promise like this. Shame on Sam Massell as well who was a well spoken advocate for the toll booths 20 years ago and one of the reasons I supported it back then. Now he seems to have forgotten all the things he said back then and the promise that was made. As one of the last “moderate” republicans in the country, I am more willing than some in my party to back a projects that will benefit the public good even if we have to pay a little extra for awhile but when a promise is broken and the people in power cannot live up to there word then what incentive do I have to back any future projects when the rules get changed? The Republicans control everything in this state and they need to flex there political muscle and take down the toll booths for good. If they cannot stop this prime example of big government when they have all the power then what chance is there that any of the promises they are making about smaller government this election season come true? the answer is none…..
I wish candidates Deal and Barnes would take a stand on this either way so we could see how much integrity they have..
Bill Campbell
September 23rd, 2010
8:33 am
Enter your comments here
Bill Campbell
September 23rd, 2010
8:35 am
You can bet a politician is lying if his lips are moving.
Peter
September 23rd, 2010
8:38 am
Yes Republican’s lie Kyle…..Also the un-employment is going up in the state, so how can anyone say the Republican’s can solve un-employment.
Bush and the Republican party of thieves ave put the screws to American’s, and then they won’t work with the Democrat’s unless Big Pork is involved.
The Republican candidate for Governor has lied to Georgia with his omitting important financial information, and this is a guy running his own personal life in the RED….and Republican’s think he can run the state ?
The only thing Sonny has done in 8 years is double his net worth.
What did Bush do……involve the US in two wars that he never did win.
Roswell Rosie
September 23rd, 2010
8:40 am
Why is it that the state has plenty of money to put into widening I-75 in spots like Tifton and Cordele, where relatively few people live, but when it comes to something like improvements on Georgia 400, why, that’s diffo? How come when a major population center needs transportation improvements, the cry is always “let them pay for it if they want it,” but other areas of the state get their improvements from the general fund? Why aren’t other areas of the state and the metro Atlanta area forking over toll money every day? Why is it that after we paid for major interstate highways, the solution to traffic density is to convert portions of those highways to toll lanes? Aren’t they our highways already? And why are some portions of those interstate highways being converted to HOV lanes, so that the rest of us can encounter even greater traffic jams?
How come? Huh? Huh? Huh?
As for the continuation of the GA 400 toll, most of us knew that the promoters of the toll were lying through their tobacco-stained teeth way back there when the comfortably afflicted big shots in Buckhead were being bought out of their dumpy houses after years of lawsuits to jack up the price. And our knowledge was confirmed when toll money that was supposed to pay off the bonds was diverted to the crime-ridden Atlantic Station project.
This is Roswell Rosie signing off after blowing off some steam.
Left wing management
September 23rd, 2010
8:42 am
Mr. D: “Just another example of tax and spend conservatives hiding the details until it is all a done DEAL(ha!)”
“Tax and spend conservatives.”
I like that. That’s very good!
Left wing management
September 23rd, 2010
8:44 am
Michael D. 8:26: “The Republicans control everything in this state and they need to flex there political muscle and take down the toll booths for good. If they cannot stop this prime example of big government when they have all the power then what chance is there that any of the promises they are making about smaller government this election season come true?”
It’s a really good question.
Answers, anyone?
Anyone?
Peter
September 23rd, 2010
8:44 am
By the way Kyle…….since it has not rained in awhile……isn’t it time to have a prayer meeting on the lawn of the capitol building ?
Do you think a new reservoir may be in order ?
Gotta love Republican’s……let the education go to heck in a hand basket…..so the dumb folks will keep voting them in no matter what they say or lie about !
Tychus Findlay
September 23rd, 2010
8:47 am
Politicians make claims and promises to get elected. If you believe that they’ll follow through, then YOU’RE the idiot.
rdh
September 23rd, 2010
8:50 am
the boards of the Department of Transportation and the State Roads and Tollway Authority will review a plan to keep charging the toll for perhaps eight more years.
They are following up a broken promise with another promise? If they can’t keep their promise this time, then the toll booth stays FOREVER with tolls increasing at unexplained levels and with accountability to no one.
They SHOULD do the right thing. End the tolls, publish new proposed projects, and create a referendum reauthorize for the length of time to complete the projects. EVERYONE who uses the toll booth would agree to fix the 85 interchange. Why shaft those that , in good faith, agreed to this project in the first place when you can get what you want through good planning and a commitment to your promises?
I am FOR several of the proposed new projects. I am AGAINST government not keeping its word. I am AGAINST unelected bureaucracies that go behind the backs of the people who pay this toll to attempt to maintain their bureaucracy. Is there any question whatsoever how the SRTA is going to vote on this? They are not voting what is in the best interest of the people. They are voting to increase their power, budget and prestige, and to keep their jobs.
I would bet a weeks salary that if they ASK, they will be given permission to extend the tolls and complete new projects. If they pass this without public input,they will have destroyed the trust of the people and created a lot of animosity towards the SRTA.
Question Authority
September 23rd, 2010
8:52 am
There is no public trust left. Or at least there shouldn’t be. The sooner the citizens of this city, this state, and this country wake up and realize that it has never been left versus right, or Dem versus Rep but rather the State versus YOU, the sooner we can get our rights and our liberties back. This toll thing is just yet another example of what is wrong with this country and the direction the political process has taken.
Left wing management
September 23rd, 2010
8:52 am
Peter 8:44: “By the way Kyle…….since it has not rained in awhile……isn’t it time to have a prayer meeting on the lawn of the capitol building ?”
Right now they’re too busy huddling with their pollsters studying numbers in Alaska and Delaware with their propaganda-meisters on the ready to let loose with the next TV spot to peddle their badly tattered, sham vision of fiscal probity and Reaganesque American optimism (leave it all up to the markets, they call it). Never mind the collapsing bridges. Guess the market will figure that one out, too.
Yep, he’s still that tired old man that we elected king – a good 30 years later.
TruthBe
September 23rd, 2010
8:56 am
Again the government lies to us. The toll road was suppost to be remove after the road was paid for with a 20 year dead line. Look now the State dot and Atlanta not only want to break their bond but also charge you double to do so. People wake up and don’t let anymore taxes be approved anymore period for ANY reason.
Curious Observer
September 23rd, 2010
8:58 am
They are following up a broken promise with another promise? If they can’t keep their promise this time, then the toll booth stays FOREVER with tolls increasing at unexplained levels and with accountability to no one.
Welcome to the real world. I grew up in southern West Virginia, where for two decades politicians argued for the West Virginia Turnpike (I-77) and promised fervently that the tolls would be removed once the bonds were paid off. Well, guess what. Not only have those tolls been collected for forty-five years, with the bonds long since paid off, but they recently doubled. Those tolls will be there long after I’m dead. Politicians have a terrible time of letting go of a revenue source once it’s discovered. There’s no reason to think that Georgia 400 will be any different.
JF McNamara
September 23rd, 2010
9:09 am
Nice post.
Peter
September 23rd, 2010
9:11 am
Kyle what is it with Georgia Republican’s anyway……is there a singe one who tells the truth ?
commoncents
September 23rd, 2010
9:12 am
Peter,
Don’t you mean “Georgia Politicians”?
Hmmmmmmm
September 23rd, 2010
9:22 am
If in fact the toll is extended…… My bet is that it will be. As a protest, EVERYBODY should by pass the boothes and go through the cruise lane. Let the state sue everybody for non payment of fines! This is a JOKE! But then you have MORONS like barking frog who wants to be screwed…..
retiredds
September 23rd, 2010
9:28 am
Kyle, thanks for the fodder. There are many, including me, who have been saying all along that the Republicans in GA, and nationwide, have been duping the people. They have a knack for great slogans, and it looks like a new one will appear today, something called a “Contract for the people”. This chicanery that Perdue and his hand-picked cronies and Mr. Deal’s keeping his finances under wraps until his Republican base nominated him is nothing new. If anyone thinks that the Republican party has any answers to any program, think back to the Bush/Cheney years and the destruction they left behind when they left office.
No, folks, your Republican leaders can make all the promises they want about lowering taxes and cutting spending but the same outcome will result … you are being lied to.
Jimmy62
September 23rd, 2010
9:29 am
The principles of the Republican Party are great, unfortunately the current group calling itself the GOP has failed to live up to those principles. Thankfully the Tea Party is voting them out of office one by one.
Hey
September 23rd, 2010
9:41 am
At least we aren’t Florida, there seems to be tolls on every highway running through that state!
John
September 23rd, 2010
9:42 am
Lord, help me. I seem to agree with Wingfield!
retiredds
September 23rd, 2010
9:44 am
Jimmy62, and let us remember that the Tea Party folks will be bellying up to the money trough to get reelected down the road. And to whom will they be beholden?
BW
September 23rd, 2010
9:44 am
LOL…wow…the government won’t listen to the “public”…well who is this “public” that they should listen to? The politicians are the people’s representatives right….does that mean the general public or the ones who contribute to their campaign funds? There is so much naivete and “hope” for “change” on this blog that it amazes me. The argument is all wrong….it’s not that “conservatives” are against government they just want that government to do what they say.
Kyle…can you imagine how many projects could be torpedoed by a few anti-growth people in this region? Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few? The US would cease to exist as we know it if we allowed this. I get your point…the politicians basically don’t care about us. No arguments about this point. But where you and the so-called tea party lose me and many others is what do you replace the current system with. The only thing I hear is this myopic sad and naive view that the world needs to go back to the 1950’s when America was on top and everyone knew their place. I got news for you…this ain’t the 50’s and thank goodness in the case of some people who weren’t a part of the American dream. What happens when the other party takes power and these poor fools realize that they are bankrupt of ideas too? To think that people honestly believe that the government will listen to them when they offer no solution to the problem is mind-boggling. Anyone who works knows that if you bring your boss all problems and no solutions then it’s a recipe to be downsized. The only thing that can be asked for in this process is the transparency of which projects are being considered and that no general fund money be used for it. Any thing else is fantasy land especially the part where people actually think the toll is coming down. Don’t like it….don’t use it.
MB
September 23rd, 2010
9:46 am
Screw ‘em, I’ll just go another way. If they renew the toll, people should simply stop using that stretch of 400 and just go around. There’s no way in hell I’d pay $1.00 for a toll.
tommytwotone@hotmail.com
September 23rd, 2010
9:46 am
Once the leeches in government sink their claws into something, you can forget about them ever letting go.
They’re corrupt, braindead, and incapable of life outside of the private sector, so they resort to criminal tactics and bending the laws and constitution for their own gain.
And this is also another reason to reform Milton county. Let their toll booths fund their idiocy.
fair and imbalanced
September 23rd, 2010
9:49 am
I use the 400 everyday.I could not care less about the toll.
tommytwotone@hotmail.com
September 23rd, 2010
9:51 am
“But where you and the so-called tea party lose me and many others is what do you replace the current system with.”
—————————————-
If you don’t know, then you just aren’t paying attention….and probably willfully. I can tell because the slant of your post is that it’s the government’s job to solve problems, be involved in our lives, and that we need “ideas” from them.
Couldn’t be further from the truth, as evidenced by the last 50 or 60 years.
Dunwoody
September 23rd, 2010
10:01 am
The toll should come off. The toll should not return until all quadrants of Atlanta have to pay a toll. Northern metro should not be the sole toll payer once the bonds for GA400 are paid off.
Tom2
September 23rd, 2010
10:02 am
So if the tolls are gone, will SRTA no longer be funded? Is there a motive there? Is this politically appointed job protection for those that don’t contribute squat?
Peter
September 23rd, 2010
10:04 am
Hey commoncents….I think you corrected me……. Yes Georgia Politicians……. Republican’s have been the state leaders for some time now, and Zero seems to have been accomplished, so I do vent about the Republican’s.
On the other hand I don’t trust either party….. Politician’s are typically lawyers……who here trusts a lawyer ?
Buzz G
September 23rd, 2010
10:11 am
I saw the same crap when I lived in NY State in the early 80’s. They had earlier convinced the people of NY to put up tolls on the NY Thruway with the promise (actually passed a law) that the tolls would disappear when the bonds were paid. The year before the bonds were paid, politicians (Democrats) changed the law to allow the tolls to remain indefinitely. Remember, the tolls are a form of tax and once a tax is passed, there is no chance in hell that politicians will remove it. Their power comes from money. Politicians are the same all over. It is Tea Party time.
BW
September 23rd, 2010
10:13 am
@tommytwotone
It is not the government’s job to solve every problem….obviously what you don’t get is that I certainly don’t trust your emotional *** to solve any problem facing this country. This belief of liberty and freedom is the same thing that led the South to secede from the union and we all know how that turned out. If you have an idea that is not a nihilistic one then present it….I’m guessing that you don’t. I live in a world where compromise is a reality, where believing a politician is simple naivete, and one where I shut my mouth keep my head down and work my *** off because guess what bringing home something is better than nothing. Luck and a little education determine how well you do in this life….the sooner you realize this the more content you’ll be.
BW
September 23rd, 2010
10:14 am
Buzz
You just don’t get it….it’s about the money period. That is the system regardless of political party….vote one out and another takes their place and becomes the same.
Left wing management
September 23rd, 2010
10:20 am
“No, folks, your Republican leaders can make all the promises they want about lowering taxes and cutting spending but the same outcome will result … you are being lied to.”
And they’re getting ready to try to pull off one of their biggest lies yet.
Contract with America, anyone? Be sure to turn out the light boys (and girls) when you throw the switch.
Or should we say instead “Illusion with America”, Erick Erickson calls it ? He doesn’t know the half of it.
Get ready folks. The neo-liberals and their doughboy fellow travelers in the former Confederate states are getting ready for Big Lie II. The encore to the fireworks extravaganza of 1995. Better get your lawn chairs out there to reserve a place. Places are expected to be scarce.
Kevin
September 23rd, 2010
10:27 am
Do not ever allow a government to impose another tax. They will NEVER give it up.
This is precisely why we should fight like hell to limit ANY expansion of government. It’s a cancer.
BW
September 23rd, 2010
10:27 am
@ leftwing….the problem is so many people are actually sopping this crap up. Don’t trust the current legislators trust this set. I truly feel sorry for some of these people….hopefully they don’t take the nation down with them when they go down in flames.
Dirty Dawg
September 23rd, 2010
10:27 am
Hey my wife and I routinely travel 400 so I’m all for them to do away with the toll and make everybody pay for our more convenient ride rather than just those of us that use it. And don’t think it won’t keep on being charged. The money from the 400 tolls has long-since been folded into the budget and, trust me, they’ll find a way to make up for it’s removal that’ll then be shared by everyone. Happy?
retiredds
September 23rd, 2010
10:38 am
Below are from the Montreal Gazette.com
Notice that operative word “regaining power”. That encapsulates the sole reason for this public sham. And Eric Erikson has nailed it as well.
The GA 400 action and Nathan Deal’s hiding his finances from his supporters all fits nicely into the patterns offered to us by the “family values” party.
WASHINGTON — With their eyes on regaining power on Capitol Hill, U.S. Republicans on Thursday will unveil their ‘Pledge to America,’ a 21-page mid-term election platform in which they pledge to end President Barack Obama’s economic stimulus, repeal his health-care reforms, cap federal spending and permanently extend Bush-era tax cuts.
But Eric Erickson, writing on the RedState.org website, called the document “ridiculous” and lacking in detail.
“It is full of mom tested, kid approved pablum that will make certain hearts on the right sing in solidarity,’ Erickson wrote. “But like a diet full of sugar, it will actually do nothing but keep making Washington fatter before we crash from the sugar high.”
They use the term pledge. Here’s the definition: “A solemn binding promise to do, give, or refrain from doing something”. And do you believe they will honor their pledge?
Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Republicans+unveil+blueprint+term+campaign/3567655/story.html#ixzz10MZKs14K
Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Republicans+unveil+blueprint+term+campaign/3567655/story.html#ixzz10MVEwrjw
left wing
September 23rd, 2010
10:40 am
As someone who lives off of GA 400, I would be in favor of extending the toll if they were going to use the money to fix the 400/I-285 interchange.
And Left wing management is still infringing on my name. I’ve been posting on Cynthia’s and Kyle’s blog for more than half a year under this pseudonym.
JB
September 23rd, 2010
10:43 am
The 400 toll is exactly how we should tax our citizens. Use and sales tax should replace income/property tax. That would make taxation more equitable, make it harder to cheat (picking up taxes on illegals and the undeground drug economy) and encourage people to conserve and save.
Danny O
September 23rd, 2010
10:52 am
I’m surprised that there hasn’t been talk of a third option: cutting the toll in half to 25 cents. This would allow for a continued stream of funding but would require planners to prioritize and pare the project list. Officials could claim that they are delivering a 50% reduction in the toll.
But if it is going to stay at 50 cents (or heaven forbid even increase) why isn’t there any consideration of connecting State Highway 12 (also known as the limited access portion of Buford Highway) to 400? It’s hell trying to get from Midtown to GA 400.
Drew
September 23rd, 2010
11:22 am
There’s no real issue here, it’s just another vivid example of how ‘our’ government routinely lies to us and then does whatever they want. What’s really amazing is how many of us don’t get the message.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 23rd, 2010
11:22 am
the key issue is public trust:
Which is non-existent. I remember all those years ago when the first MARTA referendum passed. That was only going to last 10 years. Once they get money coming in, they’ll keep it going, forever. The 400 Toll will be there long after we’re all dead and gone.
Mike
September 23rd, 2010
11:26 am
So you all want to pay LOWER taxes but you want MORE services? Also, most of you don’t support mass transit but you want more road improvements, but at the same time you’re not willing to pay a 50 cent or $1 toll (that is very cheap by the way, compared to most tolls around the country) to fund continued improvements.
What solutions do you all have??? Or should we just do nothing, and let our infrastructure continue to deteoriate? Then you all moan and complain why the metro unemployment rate continues to go up, but what company is going to move here if our infrastructure sucks and we aren’t doing anything to make it better? That’s right, not that many.
If anything, Kyle Wingnut and the rest of you fools are the short-sighted ones.
MG
September 23rd, 2010
11:28 am
The people complaining on here about having to pay a small toll to use a road and fund improvements on it are the same ones saying people who use mass transit should be the ones paying for it. I guess it sucks when you have to be the one paying for it doesn’t it? People in Georgia are morons.
David C
September 23rd, 2010
11:32 am
I agree with Kyle.
But why didn’t they build the 400 to I-85 N interchange in the first place??? This should have been done a long time ago. Now they want to tax us more to build it!!!
Bob
September 23rd, 2010
11:36 am
If it means they’re actually going to solve the 400 south to 85 south junction, which is a daily source of trauma for people heading through it, then another year or two of suffering the tolls is well worth it.
Phil
September 23rd, 2010
11:38 am
Keep the toll. Drive less, carpool, and take Marta
JP
September 23rd, 2010
11:42 am
Kyle -
I hardly agree with you about anything, but I agree with you on this one, mainly why was all of this done in the dark? I think most folks would pay for improvements to our highways, but to do it like this gives more validation to the “government is the problem” argument.
itpdude
September 23rd, 2010
11:47 am
Not that the choice was that great, I voted for Sonny in 2002 primarily because Barnes wanted the outer perimeter.
Sonny has been a disappointment regarding transportation, but at least we didn’t get the outer perimeter.
If the politicians said the toll would end after X time, it needs to end. However, I’d like to see tolls in more places and have them fund trains and buses rather than more roads. Atlanta has enough roads already, however, we don’t have enough in the way of train stations, buses, trains, etc. We need to look to the future and be real: Building more roads will not help Atlanta’s traffic. If you build it, they will come. The gridlock is alleviated for a couple months, tops.
Hold Roy Barnes Accountable
September 23rd, 2010
11:54 am
The ajc is a gutless rag, not worth our effort to read. They let controversial stories about favored politicians die of neglect, while publishing nonsense crap. They should be looking at the controversial diversion of Ga 400 Toll Road money to improving the I-75 exit at Atlantic Station, and the 100 million dollars of Medicaid money given to an out of state law firm for a 100 odd page report, on a no bid contract yet. But the rag has inner city losers to suck up to, so the past is forgotten, and we the taxpayers are doomed to repeatedly being robbed by FatBoy and its ilk.
Scott
September 23rd, 2010
11:56 am
If the money could be used to improve mass transportation initiatives in an effort to make Atlanta a real city, I would be all for keeping and increasing the toll. Money thrown at highways will do nothing but invite more traffic. It will not reduce traffic. It never has. In any city. The result will be more people living in the suburbs, eating at Applebees, and commuting into Atlanta during the work week, which I find disgusting.
Left wing management
September 23rd, 2010
11:57 am
Hey Roybie: who’s really responsible for these diversions?
Kyle Wingfield
September 23rd, 2010
12:09 pm
Mike: I have no philosophical problem with toll roads. I do have a philosophical problem when the toll is supposed to last a certain amount of time and the government doesn’t make even a feeble effort to consult the public before deciding unilaterally to cancel that promise.
And to everyone who’s cynically suggested that you have to be naive to think politicians would do anything else — well, if you want to be treated better, you have to start by demanding better treatment. Skepticism is a virtue, but cynicism alone is what has brought us to this point.
Tom2: I also wondered about whether this was just a way to keep SRTA alive, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. SRTA is also financing the new HOT lanes on I-85, which will be an ongoing program. The closest thing to eternal life on earth may be a government program, but I don’t think the 400 toll alone is what’s keeping SRTA going.
Jefferson
September 23rd, 2010
12:15 pm
Another road tax ? Who is running this state ?
Jefferson Jackson
September 23rd, 2010
12:26 pm
Mike is obviously the fool. Besotted by Leftist propaganda, he has lot the ability to think. This is not a difference between Left and Right, but between right and wrong. One thing was promised (in good faith, I suppose) and now is being overturned. If you want to keep the toll/raiae the toll, fine; just don’t do it behind closed doors (the preferred Democratic Party way.)
Jefferson
September 23rd, 2010
12:31 pm
Why not toll schools ?
Andrew
September 23rd, 2010
12:42 pm
I think people do need to recognize the need for money for some of these projects. I would love to see the I-285 and GA 400 interchange re-worked. Especially that 285 eastbound to 400 Northbound merge. The left lane merge with the lane ending abruptly need to be corrected. It also wouldn’t hurt to rework things so that Westbound 285 has easier access to Glenridge Connector. Both are manageable but I am surprised more accidents don’t occur there.
Still the bottom line is the fact that the toll money needs to stay in Atlanta. It should be first used for 400 projects. And then possibly for projects downtown. The money cannot be allowed to leave the city.
Left wing management
September 23rd, 2010
12:43 pm
In all seriousness Kyle, I wouldn’t be surprised if in the case of toll roads there isn’t a certain unspoken – and hence assumed – fondness for the things, as an urban fixture and reminder of the cities up North that have them (or a sense that Atlanta is a more “big-time” city because it has one). Sort of like graffiti, if you will.
Either way of course it’s clear that the proposition of bureaucrats voluntarily giving up revenue freely is unrealistic. But I wouldn’t put something of this kind of back-of-the-mind reasoning past a Sunbelt city.
Cliff
September 23rd, 2010
12:45 pm
If they extend the toll, which they promised they would remove, I can guarantee I will vote AGAINST the sales tax for transportation. I’m not going along with giving them more when they can’t follow through on the promises they’ve made to date.
Kyle Wingfield
September 23rd, 2010
12:46 pm
Andrew: I guess you’ll have to hope that the 285 interchange is on the list next time they go back on their word to take down the tolls. It’s not on this list.
Mike
September 23rd, 2010
12:56 pm
The 285 interchange project is most likely not on the list because it is a part of the project to widen 285 between 75 and 85 with managed toll lanes and transit. I wish most of you would do your research before speaking.
Also, Jefferson Jackson, where in my post did I say anything about this being a Left or Right situation? I was simply asking how many of you want to pay LOWER taxes yet you want MORE services from the government. Obviously the cost is going to get shifted to the user in the form of tolls. You basically just put a bunch of words in my mouth and spewed a bunch of Republican rhetoric – typical when you have nothing to really say. If anyone is brainwashed, it’s you.
BW
September 23rd, 2010
12:57 pm
If you elect Democrats and can’t trust them and then you elect Republicans and you can’t trust them then who is left? Do you people honestly believe that this state let alone the nation will stand still because you don’t trust them?
Left wing management
September 23rd, 2010
1:25 pm
Mike: “Also, Jefferson Jackson, where in my post did I say anything about this being a Left or Right situation? I was simply asking how many of you want to pay LOWER taxes yet you want MORE services from the government.”
I hear ya brother and am sympathetic with your position. But you gotta know that the moment you open your mouth about “taxes” and “services” you’re on hotly contested terrain and the goons with the well-coiffed Hannity hairdo’s are going to come after you as soon as you can say “fairly imbalanced”.
boots
September 23rd, 2010
1:41 pm
Theft by the government is as evil as by an individual. HONOR YOUR PROMISES, GEORGIA. You cannot complain about a runaway federal government and keep committing the same crimes at home. I live in N. Forsyth and would love 15 lanes on GA 400, but it is dishonest and unethical to extend the toll. We just cannot afford the spending any more. STOP THE SPENDING. Further, it is unfair to charge one set of commuters when other state-wide projects benefit from their tax. Stick a new toll road on a highway in Columbus or Savannah or in Gwinnett, but the best thing to do is to STOP TAXING AND SPENDING and let the economy grow. UGH!!! Why can’t the elected crooks get this through their thick skulls????
Left wing management
September 23rd, 2010
1:44 pm
Boots, you seem really exercised about taxing and spending, but frankly I don’t see a problem with it at all. What’s the big deal?
The Chinese seem to be building hyper-modern metropolises as we speak, cities that are rivaling our creaking industrial centers as job centers, and I can tell you one thing they’re not worried about, and that is spending.
boots
September 23rd, 2010
1:44 pm
And you can be sure that King Roy and the Atlanta crowd at the Dome doesn’t care who gets taxed and for how long. The “Republicans” need to show some principals and defeat this or else they can get a freakin’ real job and start calling themselves what they are: tax and spend Democrats.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 23rd, 2010
1:50 pm
The Chinese seem to be building hyper-modern metropolises as we speak, cities that are rivaling our creaking industrial centers as job centers, and I can tell you one thing they’re not worried about, and that is spending.
They very well may be the next bubble to burst.
BW
September 23rd, 2010
1:51 pm
Boots….maybe nationally the Democratic argument flies but in Georgia Republicans control all the levers…at a certain point you are going to wake up and realize that there’s no such thing as an honest politician….regardless of their “conservative” bonafides.
BW
September 23rd, 2010
1:55 pm
@ left wing
Bad example about the Chinese….they don’t have to deal with the me-first crowd indicative of the crowd on this blog…they do what they want when they want. If we had the type of government, GA 400 would be connected to I-675 right now.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 23rd, 2010
1:59 pm
Having lived in Georgia all my life, and until the last 8 years that was all Democrats, at the state level, the only difference I can see is that it’s a different group of buddies making money. Other than that, there’s really been no difference.
Road Scholar
September 23rd, 2010
2:01 pm
Mike: You are right on with your taxes/services question. Not one person has stated their prefernce. The only response was one of labeling and off subject. Do you think the conservatives actually have answers?
MG: you also have something there!
David C: The politics and budget at the time of the SR 400 extesion did not permit the northern tie to I 85. The ramps were laid out though, as to not preclude their construction in the future.
Bob: the SB SR 400 t0 SB I 85 is a tough nut to crack. This was analyzed at the time of the design, but the solution (additional lanes down to Brookwood) is not feasible w/o huge costs.
Kyle: You never did answer my earlier post.
Finally, SRTA , GDOT etc. are stratagizing on whether to ask the users of SR 400 what solutions they may want in the SR 400 corridor if the toll remains. The discussion has to start somewhere, esp since other people and groups have asked for additional SR400 improvements. It is bad business sense to stop the toll only to possibly begin collecting it again. Whiners, this is called planning.
Kyle Wingfield
September 23rd, 2010
2:19 pm
Road Scholar: I was of course talking about the sales tax referendum, as is quite clear from the very next paragraph in the post. You’re not quite right that it’s only a (potential) revenue source, because each referendum has to include a prioritized project list — i.e., a plan. But it’s true that those project lists haven’t been drafted yet.
As for the 400 “discussion” you referred to: There may be a comment period about how to prioritize the projects, but the list has already been written (that is, don’t ask for any projects not on the list). And there will be no chance to “discuss” whether to keep the toll, or for how long, after Friday’s meetings…the only question left will be which company sells the bonds.
Kyle Wingfield
September 23rd, 2010
2:24 pm
In other words, doesn’t sound much like the start of a discussion to me.
Tea Party Meber
September 23rd, 2010
2:24 pm
TAX US 2 DEATH! YOU DAM OBOMABITES R MAKING ME N MY FAMBLY BROKE
CAIR Bears
September 23rd, 2010
2:33 pm
Georgia is on it’s way to becoming a democrat state like Illinois which is going bankrupt. They also have lots and lots of tolls.
Thanks a lot left wingers.
Kyle Wingfield
September 23rd, 2010
2:33 pm
left wing management: You mean this kind of modern metropolis? http://bit.ly/bO71Jm
Obviously, that’s not all there is to China’s boom. But it does undermine the idea that unaccountable autocrats know best.
BW: Fixed this for you:
“Bad example about the Chinese….they don’t have to deal with the public accountability of a democratic society…they do what they want when they want.”
CAIR Bears
September 23rd, 2010
2:34 pm
“.they don’t have to deal with the me-first crowd indicative of the crowd on this blog”
No, they just enslave and kill their own people.
CAIR Bears
September 23rd, 2010
2:35 pm
“Gotta love Republican’s……let the education go to heck in a hand basket…..so the dumb folks will keep voting them in no matter what they say or lie about !”
The majority of Democrat voters are ex-felons and high school drop outs.
Michael D
September 23rd, 2010
2:43 pm
I would love to see a public official ,St. Reps or Senators, get on this comment section and tell us what they think about this broken promise made 20 years ago. There is no hope for smaller government if the Republican Majority has a clear case of tax and spend before it like the tolls and will not do anything. The road is paid for and its 20 years later. Case closed. Where do Deal and Barnes stand on this?? Call these candidate and ask them.
PEOPLE IN GA = DUMB
September 23rd, 2010
2:58 pm
“Georgia is on it’s way to becoming a democrat state like Illinois which is going bankrupt. They also have lots and lots of tolls.
Thanks a lot left wingers.”
Ummm, Georgia is a super Republican state, so you can blame your own party for that.
Road Scholar
September 23rd, 2010
2:58 pm
Thank you Kyle. In your first paragraph, you have admitted that there was/is no program. You are correct to state that the project list for the regional sales tax is being drafted (much like the initial project list from SRTA for SR 400.) Do you see the parallel?
In your second paragraph you note that an “initial” project list has been drawn up and imply that it is final. Where do you think that came from? Bereaucrats (sp) in a dark room? Rev Eddie Longs’ living room? Divine intervention? Do you think that local governments (municipal and county) never get comments from the public or business as to transportation needs as apart of every day business? Do you think that these governments and their reps never ask about the feasibility of including these/any new projects within a regional plan? That a regional plan floats onto paper from outer space?
Kyle it is called planning. The projects listed have been requested before based on analysis, complaints, and public input. North Fulton has recently completed research WITH CITIZEN INPUT as to transportation needs and desires. Meetings were held in Sandy Springs, Roswell, Alpharetta, Milton, and Johns Creek to gather info. I guess conservatives were too busy to attend these meetings?
It should be noted that most projects are well outside of the toll area. Should the monies, if tolls are extended ,be kept more local? Should I 285/SR 400 interchange be included even if toll funding is only a portion of the monies needed to make meanigful improvements? Do you think that th SR400 corridor like I85 could be turned into a managed lane/toll corridor? if not, get ready!
Halftrack
September 23rd, 2010
3:05 pm
The Toll road has been paid for; let the toll tax expire. New revenues are needed for new projects that come by acceptance and needs of the people, not more of the back room deals.
CAIR Bears
September 23rd, 2010
3:08 pm
“Ummm, Georgia is a super Republican state, so you can blame your own party for that.”
You must not have lived in GA for a long time. Up until Purdue, GA was a Democrat state.
BW
September 23rd, 2010
3:09 pm
@ Kyle…LOL…thanks for clarifying that for me….in all seriousness though…any national policy on energy or local policy on transportation will almost certainly ensure that people are aggrieved due to the process…..NIMBY is prevalent.
BW
September 23rd, 2010
3:10 pm
@ CAIR Bears…you’re right it was a Democratic state….and 80% of the new Republicans were once Dems when the state’s politics dictated it.
Michael D
September 23rd, 2010
3:23 pm
We just called both the Deal and Barnes offices about this issue and the responses from Deal’s office was that he wanted the toll booths to come down while Barnes office said he wanted to keep them up to pay for improvements. Those are the candidates positions.
Linda
September 23rd, 2010
3:40 pm
Michael D @ 3:23, I knew it! True to their parties’ ideologies! That settles it! Cars with Deal stickers pay zero & cars with Barnes stickers pay $1.00. Everyone will be happy. Reps hate higher taxes & Dems love them.
CAIR Bears
September 23rd, 2010
3:58 pm
“and 80% of the new Republicans were once Dems when the state’s politics dictated it.”
And you have no proof of that claim.
JJ
September 23rd, 2010
4:03 pm
Wow! Passions are running high about a 50 cent toll. Go figure. Even if it went to 1 dollar, that’s still a cheap toll. Where I come from it costs 4 dollars and 50 cents to just go 1 way over a darn bridge! Yep politicians lie and guess they did here too. Regardless I’d rather pay the toll and use the money for infrastructure so everyone pays the same amount including out of towners. The key is a rock solid 5-10 year plan for the money that can’t be monkeyed with by each new governor.
BW
September 23rd, 2010
4:05 pm
Are you honestly going to tell me most of the current Republicans didn’t start their political careers as Dems? One is sitting in the Gold Dome….ideologically today’s Republicans are yesterday’s Dixiecrats
Road Scholar
September 23rd, 2010
4:12 pm
Who cares whether the current Ga repubs were Demos. THEY ARE REPUBS NOW! GET OVER IT! They control SRTA, GDOT, and GRTA. The management of each was hand picked by Perdue, a repub. Stop your whining and denial, just because they aren’t your idea what a Repub/conservative should be.
BW
September 23rd, 2010
4:18 pm
I am “over” it…LOL…my original point/thought is that both parties are intellectually bankrupt but Repubs control GA so the current argument that at least the R’s are better than the D’s is one that will get no change in the status quo
Toll should end as promised
September 23rd, 2010
4:52 pm
To extend the GA 400 toll beyond the original promised end-date is wrong. It should not automatically be rolled over for revenue for some other use. At the end of the currently agreed to plan, the toll should be shut down and let new petitions, etc., come forth if someone wants to open it for another purpose. And I bet it’d be voted down. (Didn’t some politician borrow some money from our toll money years ago? What ever happened to that money?)
Left wing management
September 23rd, 2010
5:01 pm
Kyle: Obviously, that’s not all there is to China’s boom. But it does undermine the idea that unaccountable autocrats know best.
Point taken. They’re throwing a lot at the wall over there and starting with a lot of pasta. So what sticks will be epic in size just like what does not. In any case, we’re not exactly sitting pretty in the ideological horse race. Let me just cite 3 names in the American urban pantheon: Minneapolis (public works), Detroit (plight of the old Ford model), and New Orleans (hydraulic engineering).
CORR
September 23rd, 2010
5:09 pm
Why not just build a shorter, cheaper route for the US 411 Connector in Bartow County. The current route, Route D-VE, is projected to cost $280 million. Alternate Route G, would save the state $182 million, is 2.5 miles shorter and doesn’t have significant environmental impacts (like destroying a mountain, watersheds, historic mine, conservation easement, etc.) Get the extra ramp money there. Oh wait, that would actually make sense. Nevermind. More here – http://www.coalitionfortherightroad.org
Hold Roy Barnes Accountable
September 23rd, 2010
5:09 pm
Toll should end as promised – The politician was RoyBarnes, then King Roy, who did not borrow the money from Ga 400, he just took it and spent it to improve roads around Atlantic Station for his developer cronies building that pos development. His attorney general said “nothing to see here folks, no crime, just a mistake.” What a pack of crooked cronies is the Dummycrat party. FatBoy will not carry his home county of cobb in November, we hate dummycrats up here in rich cobb. You cannot imagine how disappointed I was that Sonny did not pursue an investigation of KingRoy and all his crimes and cronies imho. Well, one can always hope for a heart attack, or better yet a nasty stroke. Strike Stroke Strike, just like lightening.
TIRED OF REDNECKS
September 23rd, 2010
5:36 pm
“You must not have lived in GA for a long time. Up until Purdue, GA was a Democrat state.”
Are you kidding me? GA has NEVER been a liberal state and GA Democrats are nothing more than Moderate Republicans. You are out of your mind like everyone else in this state.
CAIR Bears
September 23rd, 2010
5:51 pm
Road Scholar
Sucks to be you.
CAIR Bears
September 23rd, 2010
5:52 pm
“re you kidding me? GA has NEVER been a liberal state”
Not my fault if you can’t comprehend a simple statement. If you had a higher IQ then you’d have noticed that I never wrote anything about GA being a liberal state.
“You are out of your mind like everyone else in this state.”
Ma’am, trust me, my mind is just fine. If you hate GA so much, please move to another state.
Not So Casual Observer
September 23rd, 2010
6:11 pm
“In America there are so many ways of making a living that a man doesn’t usually enter politics until he has failed at everything else.” – Alexis de Tocqueville
Not So Casual Observer
September 23rd, 2010
6:21 pm
Seems to me the GA 400 toll, now and in the future, fits the generally accepted nature of both the D’s and R’s.
The R’s claim to favor a tax paid by those receiving the benefit, so the current toll paid for the road and a future toll would pay for the improvements. If the toll receipts are planned for any road other than 400 then the R’s should oppose the extension.
The D’s simply enjoy taxing anyone and everyone so the current and future toll fits their game plan. The state was under the control of Democrats 20 years ago so if the D’s actually wanted a sunset provision the act could have been made binding.
Roy Barnes should pledge to repay the pilfered 400 funds should he win the election, but we all know Roy would not do anything honorable – unless he thought there was a political advantage.
Nathan Deal should pledge to pursue Barnes for a return of the pilfered 400 funds (Barnes has plenty of money according to this supporters) and then apply for 10% commission as a government whistleblower and then Deal’s financial issues would be solved.
Left wing management
September 23rd, 2010
6:34 pm
CAIR Bears: ““You are out of your mind like everyone else in this state.”
Ma’am, trust me, my mind is just fine. If you hate GA so much, please move to another state.”"
I’m not so sure, CAIR.
Left wing management
September 23rd, 2010
6:36 pm
I had to laugh. Erick Erickson has this to say about the ‘Gobsmack with America’ statement:
This document proves the GOP is more focused on the acquisition of power than the advocacy of long term sound public policy. All the good stuff in it is stuff we expect them to do. What is not in it is more than a little telling that the House GOP has not learned much of anything from 2006.
Good god is that ever the truth.
Why don’t you try listening to the man, boys. It might just save you some heartache. Tee hee. Good night.
artyc99
September 23rd, 2010
6:52 pm
Sam Massell , you are a joke I guess you what you said years ago just join gov. sonny perdue and forget the people and raise taxes.
Independent
September 23rd, 2010
8:19 pm
Every one of you remember 400 every time they ask you to approve a SPLOST tax increase. Say NO to every thing a politician wants because they will LIE THROUGH THEIR TEETH to get what they want, then do whatever they want. If they do not get rid of the toll on 400, they prove themselves unworthy of any trust. Maybe some courageous politician will come along and campaign on the platform of removing the 400 toll. Maybe he/she will get elected. In the 80’s at UGA a student ran under the name of “The Unknown Candidate” for Student Government President and promised that, if elected, would abolish the Student Government. He won and he abolished the Student Government! That is a true revolution!
Politicians R Scum
September 23rd, 2010
8:56 pm
Let’s tar, feather and hang all politicians!
Politicians R Scum
September 23rd, 2010
8:57 pm
I wish the last line on all ballots read “Mark here to hang all the above.”
Bass Boy
September 24th, 2010
7:36 am
Take the tolls down. You promised and the tax paying citizens of the great state of Georgia expect you to uphold this promise. We don’t want to hear about closed door meetings about this situation. For once in your life, stand up for the people and do the ethical thing by standing by your promise!
Just sayin...
September 24th, 2010
7:46 am
So you want to complain about the ONE toll road in Georgia? Fine… just remember, in Florida…
Toll roads
Road Name S/W Terminus N/E Terminus Length[5] Cash tolls (automobile)[6][7][8][9] Notes
Airport Expressway Miami International Airport, Miami I-95, Miami 4.132 mi. $1.25 with cash, $1.00 with SunPass Becomes I-195 just west of I-95
Martin Andersen Beachline Expressway I-4, near Lake Buena Vista I-95, near Cocoa 53.5 mi. $3.25 with cash, $3.00 with SunPass
Apopka Bypass / John Land Apopka Expressway U.S. 441, near Lockhart U.S. 17, U.S. 92, Maitland 6.53 mi. $1.00
Central Florida GreeneWay/Seminole Expressway/Southern Connector I-4, near Celebration I-4, Sanford 54.06 mi. $6.75 with cash, $6.00 with SunPass
Daniel Webster Western Beltway I-4, near Disney World U.S. 441, Apopka 31.853 mi. $3.50
Don Shula Expressway Homestead Extension, Richmond Heights SR 826, Glenvar Heights 7 mi. $1.00 with SunPass, $1.45 via “Toll-By-Plate” Open road tolling; cash collection ended on July 17, 2010
Dolphin Expressway NW 137th Avenue, Tamiami I-95, Miami 16 mi. $2.25 cash, $2.00 with SunPass (includes SunPass only section)
Everglades Parkway (Alligator Alley) CR 951, East Naples I-75, I-595, Sawgrass Expressway, Sunrise 84.28 mi. $2.50 with cash, $2.00 with SunPass
Florida’s Turnpike Golden Glades Interchange, Miami Gardens I-75, near Wildwood 264.96 mi. $18.20 with cash, $14.40 with SunPass
Florida’s Turnpike Homestead Extension U.S. 1, Florida City Florida’s Turnpike, Miramar 47.856 mi. $4.00 with cash, $3.00 with SunPass
Goldenrod Road Extension Orlando International Airport, Orlando SR 551, Orlando $0.50 To revert to City of Orlando when the costs are paid off
Gratigny Parkway I-75, SR 826, Hialeah SR 953, Opa-Locka 5.378 mi. $1.00 with SunPass, $1.30 via “Toll-By-Plate” Open road tolling; cash collection ended June 7, 2010
Holland East-West Expressway Florida’s Turnpike, near Ocoee SR 50, near Bithlo 22.13 mi. $3.50
Lee Roy Selmon Crosstown Expressway U.S. 92, Tampa I-75, Brandon 14.168 mi. $3.00 with cash, $2.50 with SunPass
Osceola Parkway I-4, near Celebration Florida’s Turnpike, Kissimmee 12.4 mi. $1.75
Polk Parkway I-4, near Plant City I-4, near Polk City 24.380 mi. $3.00
Sawgrass Expressway I-75, I-595, Sunrise Florida’s Turnpike, Deerfield Beach 21.835 mi. $2.00 with cash, $1.50 with SunPass
Snapper Creek Expressway Don Shula Expressway, Kendall U.S. 1, South Miami 2.658 mi. $0.50 with SunPass, $0.80 via “Toll-By-Plate” Open road tolling; does not collect cash
Suncoast Parkway Veterans Expressway Spur, Cheval U.S. 98, near Chassahowitzka 41.512 mi. $3.00
Veterans Expressway I-275, SR 60, Tampa SR 597, Cheval 15.172 mi. $1.75 with cash, $1.25 with SunPass
[edit] Future Toll Roads
First Coast Outer Beltway: Construction Starts: 2012 – Planned Opening: 2020
Interstate 4/Crosstown Expressway Connector: Planned to open 2013
[edit] Toll Bridges and Causeways
Road Name S/W Terminus N/E Terminus Length Cash tolls (automobile)[10] Notes
Broad Causeway North Miami Surfside $1.00
Cape Coral Bridge Cape Coral Fort Myers 0.64 mi $2.00 westbound
Card Sound Road Monroe County Miami-Dade County $1.00
Choctawhatchee Mid-Bay Bridge Destin Niceville 3.6 mi. $2.50 with cash, $1.50 with SunPass
Clearwater Pass Bridge
Garcon Point Bridge Gulf Breeze Milton $3.50
Gasparilla Bridge Signed as County Road 771
Midpoint Memorial Bridge Cape Coral Fort Myers 1.25 mi. $2.00 westbound
Pensacola Beach Causeway Signed as U.S. Route 98 and State Road 30
Pinellas Bayway $0.85
Rickenbacker Causeway Miami Key Biscayne $1.50 eastbound
Sanibel Causeway Sanibel Island South Fort Myers 3 mi. $6.00 westbound
Sanibel-Captiva Bridge
Sunshine Skyway Bridge St. Petersburg Terra Ceia 5.5 mi. $1.00 with cash, $0.75 with SunPass
Venetian Causeway Miami Miami Beach 2.5 mi. $1.50
Jefferson
September 24th, 2010
9:50 am
In ref to FL, “If everyone jumps in the fire, are you going to also?”
retiredds
September 24th, 2010
9:51 am
Kyle, I post a bit of an AP article I read this morning. Many on this blog, and I think you to a certain extent, have complained about both the Republicans and Democrats and their handling of issues of importance to us all. It seems that if the poll below captures the national mood we might want to think of electing persons who are willing to work together fort the betterment of our country versus the splitting (a very primative psychodynamic defense mechanism) and contentiosness we have now. I, for one, don’t see those types of candidates this time around.
Associated Press-GfK Poll
WASHINGTON — If anyone is scorned as much as Democrats these days, it’s Republicans — the party that may recapture the House and perhaps the Senate in November’s elections.
Yet Democrats trying to exploit the GOP’s unpopularity in hopes of hanging onto control of Congress face a problem: People who dislike Democrats seem ready to vote in greater numbers than those with little use for Republicans.
In an Associated Press-GfK Poll this month, 60 percent disapprove of the job congressional Democrats are doing — yet 68 percent frown on how Republicans are performing. While 59 percent are unhappy with how Democrats are handling the economy, 64 percent are upset by the GOP’s work on the country’s top issue. Just over half have unfavorable views of each party.
Most say President Barack Obama isn’t cooperating enough on the economy; yet even more accuse Republicans of the same thing. Former President George W. Bush and former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin — the only two Republicans the AP-GfK Poll tested — are both viewed negatively by more than half in the survey, worse than Obama’s marks. And people overwhelmingly fault Bush more than Obama for the recession.
Politicians R Scum
September 24th, 2010
9:55 am
Here is another crooked scum bag Dummycrat, imho: “The controversy over Rep. Sanford Bishop’s decision to award charity scholarships to his relatives has expanded as four more students tied to the south Georgia Democrat and his wife have acknowledged receiving them, as well.” Moral of the story: Never donate money to Africans of any kind, American or otherwise.
jm
September 24th, 2010
10:33 am
Here’s my take on the problem with the 400 tolls. 400 now extends up into the boondocks up North. The funds generated from one small section, where every lane pays tolls, covers the cost of the whole thing.
If the new proposal was to put in a toll lane (similar to the I-85 plan), and remove the rest of the told booths, then this would seem rational. And revenue would be made available to make the necessary improvements.
The 400 toll booth on one small section is outdated with everyone inside the perimeter using 400 now subsidizing everyone using 400 outside the perimeter (if they don’t come inside 285).
I’m not trying to highlight the ITP versus OTP problem (although it works out that way), more to the point, no business person, economist, or anyone else would think the 400 toll system is a rational way to to do things.
jm
September 24th, 2010
10:34 am
my 10:33 – my suggestion would also provide a needed congestion free lane on 400, something desperately needed from 285 past Alpharetta.
CAIR Bears
September 24th, 2010
11:49 am
Since I am banned on Tucker’s and Bookman’s blog, could one of you friendly conservative bloggers please share this with those two?
MEDIA BLOODBLATH: NBC, CNN CHIEFS OUT
http://drudgereport.com/
Ken Thompson
September 24th, 2010
12:01 pm
How do you know a politician is lying. His lips move
CAIR Bears
September 24th, 2010
12:02 pm
Prediction: Obama is either impeached or he resigns in the next year.
Another Obama commie bites the dust.
Axelrod leaving White House next year to work on campaign
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/09/axelrod-leaving-white-house-next-year-to-work-on-campaign.html
itpdude
September 24th, 2010
12:03 pm
This is yet another example of the politicians lying to us. This is another example of why you should never trust a politician. They said the toll would be gone once it was paid off. It’s been paid off for a while. They said it would not go past 2011. It’s now going to be until 2020.
Do not trust a politician. Ever.
John
September 24th, 2010
12:05 pm
EVERYONE NEEDS TO EXIT RIGHT BEFORE THE TOLL DRIVE AROUND AND GET RIGHT BACK ON AFTER TOLL LETS DO THIS PEOPLE!!!
george
September 24th, 2010
12:29 pm
I agree with you on this one. I drive 400 daily and I do think it is grossly unfair for 400 drivers to be singled out and taxed for other purposes. I don’t mind paying the toll to fix the ridiculous 85/400 “interchange.” Your point about trust hits the mark for sure!
Jimmy62
September 24th, 2010
12:40 pm
Just sayin: Obviously you don’t get it. Must be a reading comprehension issue. Tolls in Florida are irrelevant. I don’t have any problem with tolls in general, what I do have a problem with is that a promise was made, and now it’s being broken. Why should we just say, “Ok, we’re accept your lies and move on?” They lied, I won’t accept it now, I won’t accept it in the future, either. Politicians need to be held accountable for their statements and promises, and everyone involved in promising the tolls would come down should be thrown in jail for defrauding the public.
Gamtnlady1
September 24th, 2010
12:59 pm
I am extremely dissappointed, but not in the least suprised. Keeping the issue quite keeps public opion and outcry silent, therefore less resistance. So much for our good ole GA politians and appointed officials. Ok, so since you insist the north side continues to pay toll, the very least you could due since you lied and broke word given is to keep the toll at .50 cents. If it goes to $1 each way then I have already found an alternate route that will take me just around it both ways every day so I will not have to pay. Everyone should do the same and hit them where it hurts, but of course then they will close off the side streets due to traffic. Purdue you are a joke and a disgrace by extending the toll. You and your cohorts are biting the hands that feed you. If everyone that commutes into the city were to not drive into town for a few days, Atlanta would be hurting. What a legacy you are leaving.
Dave
September 24th, 2010
1:30 pm
Did anyone really believe the toll booths would come down on GA 400? Politicians love money and a toll road is a wonderful cash cow. Believe me, the toll booths will never come down on GA 400. The politicians will always have an excuse to keep them.
retiredds
September 24th, 2010
1:51 pm
And the votes (Perdue and his appointees, not the public) are in. The envelope, please!!! The tolls to stay 10 more years. Oh well, I am glad it has finally become transparent. The bookies will be taking bets that in ten it will be 20.
on patroll
September 24th, 2010
2:20 pm
You must not have lived in GA for a long time. Up until Purdue, GA was a Democrat state. – CAIR Bears @ 3:08pm
Not my fault if you can’t comprehend a simple statement. If you had a higher IQ then you’d have noticed that I never wrote anything about GA being a liberal state. – CAIR Bears @ 5:52pm
DEWSTARPATH
September 24th, 2010
2:49 pm
On patroll – September 24th, 2010
2:20 pm
CB @ 3:08pm – “Democrat” state.
CB @ 5:52pm – “liberal” state.
Good point.
All American
September 24th, 2010
2:59 pm
Why do this surprise anyone, If you have been in GA long enough you may remember when voters voted on the Advelorem Tax. It to was suppose to last for 20 years. But greedy politicians saw that it could be used as a slush pork barrel fund and decided to keep it after its 10 year expiration was up. Word to the wise… be carefully about the referendums and bonds you vote for that says temporary.
All American
September 24th, 2010
3:03 pm
Most politicians are crooks, and most of Georgia’s politicians are affiliated to the party that can keep them elected. IE Sonny Perdue the former democrat, and Zell Miller former democrat turned republican.
CAIR Bears
September 24th, 2010
3:08 pm
“CB @ 3:08pm – “Democrat” state.
CB @ 5:52pm – “liberal” state.
Good point.”
Looks like a few folks don’t know the difference between the word Democrat and Liberal. But hey, libs are not smart to begin with.
DEWSTARPATH
September 24th, 2010
3:30 pm
“Looks like a few folks don’t know the difference between the word Democrat and Liberal. But hey, libs are not smart to begin with.”
- You are not smart to begin or to end with, since you routinely
mix the terms “liberal” and “democrat” every time you post. But
hey, when you’re insane, it doesn’t matter what you post.
DEWSTARPATH
September 24th, 2010
3:30 pm
- One more thing: I am not a “lib”.
PSA: Ga. 400 toll column is updated below | Kyle Wingfield
September 24th, 2010
3:44 pm
[...] here to see what I added at the top of the original post. [...]
Jonathan
September 24th, 2010
3:54 pm
We should be putting tolls on a lot of the arteries into Atlanta and using the money to pay for alternative transport such as trains.
I am so fed up a of people driving into Atlanta from counties that have no emissions testing wearing out the roads and ruining the air quality. They should pay tolls.
BTW the reason for so much money spent on road widening in places such as Valdosta is Sonny Purdues biggest backers are the concrete industy.
JB
September 24th, 2010
3:59 pm
“We demand lower taxes, more services, better planning, eliminating the federal deficit, and paying off the national debt! Why is that so hard to understand?”
How would you expect all that to happen with lower taxes? Typical Republican. Without the taxes, there’s no money to do all that other stuff.
JB
September 24th, 2010
4:03 pm
As far as Florida having so many tolls, they don’t have state taxes. The tolls are how the state gets their revenue.
Jimmy62
September 24th, 2010
4:06 pm
This whole affair calls for some sort of organized civil disobedience! Any ideas?
Double Zero Eight
September 24th, 2010
4:12 pm
I attended a meeting in the 80’s where the commissioner of the DOT promised the toll would not be extended, ” no ifs, ands and buts”. I suppose everyone is suppose to believe the propaganda now about the 10 county transportation tax referendum.
Sonny had no choice but to extend the toll, as he needed to keep his promise to his cronies and relatives regarding taking care of them before he left office.
on patroll
September 24th, 2010
4:19 pm
so now kyle wants to put in there that sonny was democrat.
Fed Up
September 24th, 2010
4:19 pm
Oh yea. They need another entrance for the N. Georgia Premium Outlet Mall just up the road from toll section of 400. Maybe we could fund another entrance and a light. Sonny you truly have turned into the prototypical Fat, Good for Nothing, Lying, Redneck Govenor after all.
Intown
September 24th, 2010
4:36 pm
Why is it that the one toll in the State (except for Jekyll Island) is sitting on the border of Atlanta and N. Fulton? everyone should be paying tolls!
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 24th, 2010
5:04 pm
When Rob Pitts and Sonny Perdue are in cahoots, us voters better look out.
Taxation w/o Representation
September 24th, 2010
9:50 pm
The tollpayers who drive inside I-285 have to pay for a McFarland Interchange 25 miles North. Gee, that is awful nice of those city folks.
Crooks
September 24th, 2010
9:55 pm
Yes, DOT and SRTA have decided to announce projects all up and down 400 so they get the popular support. A wonderfully evil sadistic plan. Of course the majority of funds will not even go to these projects. They will go to fund SRTA Operating Expeneses.
john
September 26th, 2010
3:27 pm
A great lie by state officials and who better to pull off such a lie than the biggest liar in state government: Gena Evans!
Way to go Gena. Glad you secured more tenure of a 200k job to run a toll booth. Only in georgia state govenment….