Georgia’s worrisome intramural fight over abortion
There’s one bit of unfinished business from the GOP primary for governor. And, no, I don’t mean a public kiss-and-make-up session between Nathan Deal and Karen Handel.
I worry that the long-term health of the pro-life movement in Georgia may have taken a self-inflicted hit during this primary, because of the words and tactics of Georgia Right to Life.
The most prominent anti-abortion group in a red state, GRTL issues endorsements during each election cycle that Republican candidates covet. High among its criteria is a stipulation that candidates agree to only one exception to a ban on abortions: when the life of the mother is in danger.
GRTL defends its stance as “the 21st-century demands of being pro-life,” a tacit acknowledgment that one exception hasn’t always been the rule. For decades after the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade decision, many pro-life groups allowed for two additional cases: pregnancies resulting from rape or incest.
It was largely over these two exceptions that GRTL and Handel, the only GOP gubernatorial candidate not to get the group’s endorsement, disagree. But it was no light disagreement.
After Handel received a late endorsement from Sarah Palin, GRTL lashed out: One day before the primary, the group sent out a robo-call to voters describing Handel as “extremely liberal” on abortion.
That’s when I began to worry.
I understand that intellectual consistency dictates that the unborn’s right to life isn’t lessened by the circumstances of conception. I understand that allowing abortion in the case of a rape but not in most others could lead to an explosion in the number of rape claims, and a ban-enforcement nightmare.
But I also understand that people don’t always like to be intellectually consistent. And, more to the point, we are eons away, in public-policy years, from reaching a point where this kind of debate can be more than just theoretical.
The fact is that abortion under any circumstance remains legal in this country — and that, as GRTL itself notes, more than 99 percent of U.S. abortions don’t involve rape or incest. Even a ban on partial-birth abortions proved highly contentious not that long ago.
There’s reason for hope. Gallup, which tracks U.S. attitudes toward abortion over time, found last year for the first time that more Americans call themselves pro-life rather than pro-choice — reversing a 10-percentage-point deficit as recently as 2006, and a 23-point gap just 15 years ago. There were gains in all age groups.
But the number of Americans who believe abortion should be legal in some circumstances remained a majority of 54 percent — almost unchanged from the years immediately following Roe. It’s unlikely that most of them favor just one exception rather than the more commonly stated three.
As the left has proved over the years, a gradual approach to big policy changes is usually more successful than a one-fell-swoop strategy.
Withholding an endorsement is one thing. But there’s an important difference between that and an all-out attack on a three-exceptions candidate as “extremely liberal.” The latter is an unlikely way to build and sustain the momentum in public opinion that will be essential to any lasting change in the law.
It’s a bit like Charlie Brown asking Lucy to place the football farther from the goal posts. To the degree that this rigidity makes it harder to realize slow but steady pro-life progress, it’s an unconscionable mistake.
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215 comments Add your comment
Road Scholar
August 27th, 2010
7:27 pm
Enough about abortions. They are legal and a woman should have the right to decide about her body.People who don’t like abortions don’t have to get one!
Once the state has addressed water, the economy, transportation, and education (no order of priority) then the conserves can discuss any changes. Until then, stow it, and get down to work on these big ticket items.
saywhat?
August 27th, 2010
7:58 pm
Kyle, this situation is bigger than abortion. By “bigger than”, I don’t mean “more important than” but rather that it is not an isolated incident in Republican politics. For years now the Republican party has moved further and further to the right, on social issues (as your post points out), on economic issues (”tax cuts are solution for everything”), and governmental issues (”deregulate everything”). This trend was one reason for the thumping Republicans took in 2006 and 2008. It is also the reason I am not overly worried about Obama losing the White House in 2012.
A second point is that when you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Right wing politics have long lived by over-the-top hyperbolic statements such as describing Handel “as “extremely liberal” on abortion.” Perhaps you remember oft repeated phrases such as “most liberal Senator/Governor in the country” (applied to whatever Democrat wins the party’s presidential nomination), or “he is leading the country into Socialism”, or “he is going to confiscate your guns” or “he wants to destroy America”.
It sucks that what goes around, comes around, especially when it ends up coming from those who used to do your dirty work FOR you. Brace yourself though. With the know-nothing teapartiers now in play, it going to get alot worse before it gets better.
landry
August 27th, 2010
9:18 pm
What part of illegal don’t you understand? Per the law of the land! What part of abortions are legal don’t you understand? Per the law of the land! Hypocrites, you betcha….
Ayn Rant
August 27th, 2010
9:36 pm
Stop this silliness! It is a fundamental human right of a woman to manage her own pregnancy and other bodily functions. This right is more basic than free speech. It is also a legal right: our Constitution does grant the power to Congress to regulate pregnancies.
The only proper point of contention over abortion is whether or not health insurance plans should pay for it. They shouldn’t, except in the case of rape, incest, or health hazard to the woman. Delivery, not abortion, is the normal, healthy outcome of pregnancy.
Those who are truly concerned about the ridiculous number of abortions in Georgia and the US should get behind the movements to educate children on sex, pregnancy, and contraception, and to make contraceptives readily available to all who are likely to be sexually active.
Rafe Hollister
August 27th, 2010
9:39 pm
Saywhat? You are kidding right? The dems do not brand any commonsense candidate the Reps nominate as an “extreme rightwinger”. “Churches are going to burn if we elect a Republican”. They show suggestive video talking about the Black guy who was dragged to his death by some hooligans in TX, implying the Rep party instigated this travesty. Someone in the Rep party says Soc Sec is unsustainable long term, and they clip together some video and say Reps are going to take your Soc Sec away. Yada, Yada, Yada.
Kyle: with the economy in a depression with no signs of recovery, where does Abortion rate on anyones list of things to worry about.
don't understand
August 27th, 2010
9:45 pm
landy,
Did I understand that you suggest we should change any law that permits something to be deemed legal? So slavery and segregation should still be legal under that theory? Heck, abortion should still be illegal, since it once was, but was (gasp) changed! I think I’ll still stand up for changes I want to see in our policies. I think I’ll support gay marriage, so long as the gay couples won’t have abortions…
Kyle, you are right about GRTL harming their own cause for their political posturing. However, they have painted themselves into a corner with their unbridled support of the Republicans. Republicans have taken advantage of the prolife vote since Reagan & done little or nothing to protect the unborn in return for those votes.
landry
August 27th, 2010
9:45 pm
You can see inbred conservative georgians throughout history: burning witches, blowing up black churches, screaming at black school children integrating schools, blaming jews for their financial woes, attacking gays, demonizing immigrants, and kicking minorities for sport….
landry
August 27th, 2010
9:50 pm
don’t understand,
You are correct, you don’t understand. I was mocking the bigoted who scream about illegals on one hand arguing legality while decrying legal abortion on the other hand. It’s a complex argument, so don’t beat yourself for not understanding the hypocrisy of the delusional right.
Tyler Durden
August 27th, 2010
9:55 pm
Just a classic case of the dog turning on it’s owner. When the primary tactic of an entire movement is wedge issues and ad hominem attacks (aided by a healthy dose of self righteousness and painfull selective memory), it’s only natural that a puritanical faction will take over. Look at Germany at the turn of the last century; some mighty similar events at play…
Of course, all it will take is for Sarah Palin to say somethin’ folksy and ballsy, and you sheep will forget all about any diagreements and keep right on bleating to the slaughterhouse. Cus you’re just that dumb!
Kyle Wingfield
August 27th, 2010
10:00 pm
Rafe: If it had been up to me, this issue wouldn’t have come up during this election. But it did. And before too much time had passed (but after the runoff, because I didn’t want this to be about Handel/Deal) I wanted to make this point…after which I’m happy to move on to issues like the economy.
landry: We all know what you were trying to do. But I don’t see any hypocrisy in saying one law ought to be enforced and a different law ought to be changed. If the same people decrying the lack of enforcement of immigration laws were arguing that the current laws on abortion shouldn’t be enforced, that would be hypocrisy.
Rafe Hollister
August 27th, 2010
10:05 pm
Tyler: What is it about your condition that makes you think that people who do not agree with you, are less intelligent than you. Psychosis is treatable you know.
Kyle Wingfield
August 27th, 2010
10:05 pm
Btw, I can only get tickled at people like Tyler who see *only* wedge issues on one side and can’t see *any* of the wedge issues on the other side…and then lecture others about partisanship and smarts…
wallbanger
August 27th, 2010
10:13 pm
If it is possible to do so conservatives will shoot themselves in the foot over social issues. And who really gives a rip. I am as conservative as they come, on fiscal matters, but I believe what people do with their bodies is their business. Hey, if it were up to me I would like to see obese people locked away until they lost weight, but it isn’t my call. I wish the Republicans would lighten up on these issues or they will never see the light of day again.
Rafe Hollister
August 27th, 2010
10:19 pm
wallbanger, I’m with you. One thing I like about the Tea Party is that they are smart enough to know that social issues divide conservatives and they have tried to stay away from them and focus on the BIG item, the economy and jobs.
Tyler Durden
August 27th, 2010
10:20 pm
I get tickled at the utterly hilarious faux indignation from the right when, in a ‘moment of clarity’, they suddenly see how incredibly simplistic some of their larger platforms are. It’s a bit like in Casablanca; There’s gambling going on here?! Shocked, I tell you. I’m completely shocked!’
You make for amusing reading, that’s for sure. And as a matter of full disclosure: I fully agree that there are some progressives whose tacics and stances I find equally uninformed and just plain annoying. But take a sober look around the ranks of the conservative movement and listen to the noise you guys make day-in, day-out. From the hypocritical manufactured outrage to the histrionics over anything Obama does: you guys can’t expect to be taken seriously…
Kyle: one day you may turn into a decent commentator worthy of representing a side with credibility, clarity and dignity. But that day isn’t today. Pay attention to what it takes to be considered a worthy opponent; then you can apply some chops and make someone think about something a little differently. You show flashes, so there’s hope…
Pull My Finger
August 27th, 2010
10:21 pm
Road Scholar, aren’t you glad your mother didn’t have an abortion? It’s not just about a woman’s body…………..babies have rights, too.
landry
August 27th, 2010
10:24 pm
My point, which I’ve done a poor job of explaining, is that I find it ironic that the right uses the law to defend their stance on immigration, yet they ignore the law of the land concerning abortion because it doesn’t support their viewpoint.
Southern Harmony
August 27th, 2010
10:28 pm
when an abortion is done only one person has to deal with it
why is it we will spend millions of dollars to put someone to death court&appeals
and some are found out later to be innocent [ life without parole works just as good for me]
is not all life the same?
ugadawg2005
August 27th, 2010
10:30 pm
Can anyone tell me what Nathan Deal, as Governor of Georgia, will do to make abortion illegal? The last time I checked, it is protected by the US Constitution, at least according to Supreme Court precedent. The Governor of Georgia cannot appoint justices to the US Supreme Court. The only other way of changing the law is for a constitutional amendment, which does not involve the governor in any way (except maybe to persuade the legislature to ratify).
This is a non-issue, yet he will probably win because of this non-issue. Meanwhile, pro-life advocates will get nothing changed on abortion, but our schools will fall further behind, our transportion problems will be worse, and we will be out of water because they thought voting for someone on abortion was more important than voting for someone on the issues they can actually impact.
Rafe Hollister
August 27th, 2010
10:33 pm
Southern Harmony, I don’t have a dog in the abortion fight, but your argument is rather weak. You are saying a innocent baby is the same as a convicted murderer. I may not be as smart as Tyler, but that dog doesn’t hunt.
Southern Harmony
August 27th, 2010
10:39 pm
I believe there is places in this country it is not legal
I can beat you deal as gov.his business will profit because he didnt try to clear his in dc
but most of us are blind sheep
landry
August 27th, 2010
10:39 pm
what part of legal don’t you understand?
Southern Harmony
August 27th, 2010
10:44 pm
no I am sayin not all are guilty we find out later
but it is cheaper to kept them for 30 yrs than 15 yrs. on death row
SameOldCrapFromKyle
August 27th, 2010
10:52 pm
Oh Kyle, can we please discuss abortion again, for only the umpteenth time? Good gracious Kyle please find something new and interesting to discuss. Same old rightist crap repackaged again and again. Like you actually care about the unborn. Get a life Kyle, no pun intended.
Southern Harmony
August 27th, 2010
10:53 pm
south dakota cities in utah and in idaho
abortion is legal by a section in the forth adm.
Peter
August 27th, 2010
11:06 pm
It is amazing Kyle…….. since your party is the Kill, Invade, and start a WAR party.
Killing is Killing……no matter what the age is !
But hey your blogger’s say WAR is good for the economy……..even though folks get killed.
Dave
August 27th, 2010
11:25 pm
We all know that the blue-blood/ruling class/elite (aka RINO) Republicans have always resented (adhorred maybe?) the more socially conservative Republicans of the South and “fly-over” country but hold their nose and tolerate them to get/stay in power. If they had their way, they would have nothing to do with them…sorta like the Dems and liberals.
Intown
August 27th, 2010
11:29 pm
“I worry that the long-term health of the pro-life movement in Georgia may have taken a self-inflicted hit during this primary, ”
Are you kidding? This was one of the GOOD things that happened during the primary.
Do everyone a favor, don’t bring up abortion at the debate you’re moderating. It has nothing to do with moving Georgia forward.
DJ
August 27th, 2010
11:42 pm
Abortion was always legal; Row v. Wade made most anti-abortion laws illegal.
Yet another point where “conservatives” demand ultimate government control over the activity of “free” citizens.
Southern Harmony
August 27th, 2010
11:42 pm
John Monds is my man
LizBeth
August 27th, 2010
11:58 pm
So there’s a woman with a potential human inside of her. When it comes out, it will be a person. It mystifies me that people think that the woman that is HERE, NOW, ALREADY should be less important than that potential life.
john
August 28th, 2010
12:05 am
Destruction is going to visit the USA in 2012, the 40th year of abortion. It has destroyed the black community as intended (FWIW: I am white) by white progressives, that use to be the slave holding democrats of the 1880s. You want to learn more:
http://www.yankhank.com/
SouthernGal
August 28th, 2010
6:28 am
Why is abortion any business of the government? It is a medical procedure that is between a woman, her doctor and her God. Butt out peoples private lives!
Steve
August 28th, 2010
7:00 am
Southern Harmony,
I see serious differences between killing a convicted criminal and aborying a baby.
One person took actions so heinous a jury of their peers determined they no longer should live among us.
The other is an innocent life who simply does not have the ability to speak for herself/homself.
I do agree rape, incest, or danger to the health of the mother are valid reasons for an abortion.
I do not agree a woman who has consensual sex and gets pregnant, then has the right to abort the child because they consider it to be an inconvenience to their lifestyle.
DeborahinAthens
August 28th, 2010
7:31 am
John, please explain in your own words how abortion “destroyed” the black community. When men can get pregnant, then you have the right to tell women what they can do with their bodies. Until then, you don’t get to mouth off. Until you suck in air and take a breath on your own, you are not a human being. That is my opinion, and my opinion holds as much weight as yours. I have two wonderful grown children and three grandchildren. I’ve never had an abortion, and obviously at this point never will, but I will defend to my dying day the right for a frightened young woman who cannot and does not want to raise a child (or dump it somewhere) to have an abortion. For now it is legal, so deal with it. My fear is, as right wing fundamentalist preach the increased “Talibanation” of this country, womens’ rights are going to slowly disappear. I agree with Kyle’s point, it is scary how easily the fundamentalists have been able to snag control and the upper hand in several debates. Witness the flip-flop by Nathan Deal on casino gambling. It was all for it until he was against it. What changed? The Bible thumpers started beating their drums. What a pathetic, sad world we live in.
NorthEast GA
August 28th, 2010
8:01 am
I really have to stop reading these comments in the morning. The circular “logic” used by the liberals like Landry and saywhat – make me just look at the monitor and shake my head. You people don’t procreate do you? I would be really frightened if you said you did.
If a group of people don’t respect the life of the smallest, most defenseless, among us, why would I think they as a group, would respect me or my life? Just asking.
Fertile Topic
August 28th, 2010
8:41 am
This pill against the Tea Party is a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Comparing the violence of abortion to a cartoon is a bit like saying Rosemary’s Baby was the bun in the oven at Hell’s Kitchen. Trivializing the 50 million terminations (since Roe) by cherry-picking partial-birther flip-flops as the Right squirms toward the middle is not just a miscarriage of logic, but a bit like putting lipstick on a dead wabbit instead of a pig. (Which is a bit like Islam calling their ground zero mosque a community center: lipstick on a pig).
It’s no surprise that most writers sacrifices content for style. Every writer admires some writer out there to a great degree and tries to emulate the work. Kyle aspires writing skill, and as Bush would say: “What an aspirator”.
Writing 101: Subject matter dictates tone. Tone dictates structure.
Now, suppose the topic is abortion. Should you bring up Peanuts? Should you go anywhere near “one fell swoop”? (unless you’re a moron) You tell me. Is Kyle a total incompetent menace to journalism or does he just have a writer’s crush on whoever he’s trying to be a bit like?
When a writer or a politician sells out and steals material, it’s a bit like cheating on a home pregnancy test: if it’s red, it can’t be a bit blue.
Not So Casual Observer
August 28th, 2010
8:49 am
Peter and Tyler,
You guys are tooooo funny.
Tyler has delusions of grandeur in which he is the great sage.
Peter refers to the Republicans as the “War party”! Well now, which party was in office at the start of World Wars I & II? Which party was in office during the escalation of the Viet Nam war? Which party leaders were urging Bill Clinton to “take out” Saddam Hussein during the 1990’s? Bill Clinton did respond by launching a missile attack on a factory during the Monica Lewinsky embarrassment! That would be those Liberals – the Democrats.
rc35
August 28th, 2010
8:54 am
During my senior year in high school (the year before Roe v. Wade), a fellow student wrote a term paper arguing that legalizing elective abortion would mean the end of child abuse because “every child would be a wanted child.”
Instead, child abuse has skyrocketed since that time. You cannot make a simple “post hoc” argument that blames it all on elective, non-therapeutic abortion, but I do believe that when a society devalues the life of a child two months before birth, it becomes easier to devalue the life of a child two months after birth. If “sucking air” is the criterion of value, why not the ability to walk? If “taking a breath on your own” becomes the criterion, what happens to Grandpa after a stroke, or a college student after a tragic traffic accident? Do we start writing people off because of physical disabilities from which they may or may not recover?
It has been documented that couples have chosen to abort babies simply because they were the “wrong” sex. Wanted a boy, ultrasound shows a girl…oops! Let’s erase this one and try again!
The “Right to Life” camp is not populated by just one type of person. We’re not all “Bible thumpers” who want to impose our selected view of the world on everybody. When, however, you see that elective abortion can lead to the devaluing of society’s most helpless people, there are reasons for reasonable people to oppose it.
jconservative
August 28th, 2010
9:15 am
Kyle, this will always be a topic that draws an audience.
As you point out abortion is the “law of the land”. A part of the fundamental “right to privacy” from government intervention that all Americans enjoy, per the Supreme Court. Seven of the nine members of the current Supreme Court, when asked at their confirmation hearings, said that “Roe v Wade is settled law”. So unless some of the seven are bald faced l**rs, one can expect Roe to be the the law of the land for the foreseeable future.
But the chipping away will continue at the state level. And some of it will be successful.
A close reading of history shows that this country moves in “trends”. Starting in 2003 with Bush signing the Medicare drug bill, the first new entitlement in over 30 years, the door was opened for more entitlement legislation; see the health care bill signed by Obama for proof. And you can expect more entitlement legislation in the next few years. The door has been opened.
So there have been attempts in most state legislatures to “chip away” at Roe. And it will be successful to a limited extent. Again, the country moves in trends and the trend is to “relax” the Roe decision.
(There is also a trend to relax the “no same sex marriage” laws & that seems to be working.)
But will the Court completely reverse Roe v Wade?
The ingredients are there. The Catholic Church is strictly opposed to abortion; six of the nine members of the Court are Catholic. Will church membership influence their vote? The vast majority of “conservatives” say they do not want supreme court justices making decisions based on their “personal” tastes, but to simply apply the Constitution. A majority of “liberals” concur. A vocal minority in both camps want specific rulings regardless of how the decision is reached.
The years ahead will be fascinating.
J.B. STONER
August 28th, 2010
9:25 am
I say pass out the condoms in Atlanta and Fulton Co. and practice safe sex.
This will stop the take over(it’s probably too late) and ship the illegals to Iran and bedone with all these problems.
Then we could sleep again with our doors unlocked.
Remember those days folks???
Tyler Durden
August 28th, 2010
9:36 am
Not so casual observer:
If it takes over 70 years of to make a connection to your argument, you’re really, really reaching. Go eat some freedom fries, whine about France and let the rational Americans focus on cleaning up your ‘Mission Accomplished’. In the meantime, please be more casual in your observations: the adults are talking
Chris Sanchez
August 28th, 2010
9:43 am
In a highly charged election year such as this, how about having the boldness to say something to the effect that this issue is a non-issue! I have yet to meet someone who has changed their view of abortion once formed. It may be interesting to know a politicians view on the subject but there is almost no chance that one of these pols will actually make any meaningful change to existing law. If the stance of the candidate on abortion is the sole reason the masses elect one of them then we deserve what we get.
How about discussing what can be done to attract more business to Georgia? How about discussing ways to make Georgia friendly to small business? How about discussing the miserable state of Georgia’s public schools? How about discussing the water situation in Georgia and the failure of state government to resolve it?
nelson
August 28th, 2010
9:57 am
There has to be a starting point for abortion. The starting point is a “Rainy Night in Georgia.” I just love the way Lena Horn sings it. That is the starting point, tooooo many rainy nights and toooo much time to think about “Georgia on my Mind.” She was a wonderful girl, but alas it did not last. The sun came out and there were other things to do. The statistics just came out, the birth rate in the U.S. was the lowest in 100 years. The populance knows how to control growth, when the economy sinks low enough and money becomes scarce, there are fewer births. Soooooo there is nothing to worry about. There were only 4 million + births this past year and factoring in the undocumented workers which contribute significantly to that number, if only lawful immigrants were in the U.S. it would go even lower.
josef nix
August 28th, 2010
10:07 am
landry
@ 9:45 p.m.
Let’s look at what you said a little more closely, shall we…and let’s be honest instead of memo riddled…
Inbred Georgia conservatives…? DNA has shown that the Southern states are no more so than other parts of the countries…I would posit, though I have no data, that the liberal element of Georgia tends to be more so as the liberal element does tend to be drawn from the financially and educationally advanced segments of the population, precisely those which, due to the family connections, have been those most often “sticking to their own kind.”
“You can see inbred conservative georgians throughout history: ”
“burning witches,”
Nope. That was New England and they didn’t burn ‘em, they hanged and drowned them…”
“blowing up black churches,”
That’s Georgian, all right…still going on, sadly…
” screaming at black school children integrating schools, ”
A long time ago, yes, but the latest I seem to recall was in Boston…a splutter or two that direction in NC recently, but in suburbs largely populated by newcomers…
“blaming jews for their financial woes,”
Nope, not a part of the Georgia mindset…Governors Emmanuel, Ottolenghe and a list of Jewish elected officials back from the colonial period forward does tend to offset the two which come to your mind, the Frank Case and the Temple bombing, viewed by Georgia JEWS as isolated and tragic incidences and by no means a pattern of behavior…
“attacking gays”
Still happening all over the country, Georgia’s stats here, while by no means good, do not put it “up there” with other states…
“demonizing immigrants,”
Yep. Georgia is lockstep with the mainstream of the rest of the country and pretty much the rest of the West in this–France, Belgium, Germany, the Czech Republic…
” and kicking minorities for sport….”
Yep, true here, too just like above. Georgia doesn’t really even stand out.
saywhat?
August 28th, 2010
10:29 am
Rafe @9:39 pm- I wasn’t talking about Democrats. I never said similar things don’t happen there as well. But Kyle was talking about the Republicans Party in Georgia. It doesn’t matter what Democrats do or don’t do when the right wing starts eating their own. The Republicans Party started a pissing match to see who could be further right than whom, and apply litmus tests against each other. There is that stupid Republican purity pledge candidates have to take. There is the embarrassing spectacle of multiple Congressional Republicans having had to kiss Rush Limbaughs fat, drug addicted, sex tourist, viagra huffing azz and apologize to him if they say something that isn’t “conservative” enough. While the Democrats have a size-able bloc of “blue dogs” who are actually integrated into the party, the republicans party castigates anybody who dares cross the party line on even a single issue as RINOs.There are nearly no centrists in the republicans party, because they are not tolerated by the uptightest of the rightest, who seem to be the ones in control.
I am glad that the republicans party has taken this course. It moves them further and further from mainstream America, and hopefully further and further from power.
midtownguy
August 28th, 2010
10:42 am
The democrats over tax and over spend and the republicans over tax an over spend. The ONLY difference is what they spend it on: Fighter Jets vs Food Stamps, Faith Based Contractors vs Community Organizers, Tax breaks vs low income housing.
@@
August 28th, 2010
10:42 am
It’s ironic how “right to privacy” legislation (Roe v Wade) made its way into the public arena.
As for me, I’ll always lend my voice to the unborn, but Roe v Wade IS settled law. It’s the left’s creep with the abortion issue that concerns me.
Sarah Palin? During the campaign, the left painted her as strictly opposed to abortion. Why did they do that, when it wasn’t true? Because they chose to ignore the message so they could kill the messenger.
She stated during the campaign that she would never impose her beliefs about abortion on others, so she clearly is pro-choice; she just didn’t believe abortion was the right choice for her. What…the left would have preferred she keep her choice private. Not only that, but she also stated that she had considered an abortion, but chose life.
And before the left-wingers jump on her stance regarding sex education, just know…
She supported comprehensive sex education with abstinence included…simple as that.
I wish the media and politicians would focus more on the alternatives to abortion…adoption being my preference to…
Disgusted
August 28th, 2010
10:48 am
Conservatives politicians will do anything—anything—to regain national power. And if it means exploiting the abortion issues to regain it, they’ll exploit it. And the sheep will go right along.
And once they succeed, guess what? Abortion as an issue will be largely lip-service. The focus will be on enriching the core constituency—the wealthy and businesses. Abortion will be ginned-up as an issue only to keep the suckers satisfied. Nothing will really be done about it. And it happens at the state level too.
So go ahead and chime in with your baaaa and baaaa. You’re doing exactly what your masters want you to do. And people like Kyle Wingfield are their mouthpieces. He knows it, and you’re too stupid to recognize it.
Streetracer
August 28th, 2010
11:13 am
Personally I’m aginst abortion in most every case. However I don’t quite understand why it is any of the governments business. Seems to me that government has three functions National defense, Public safty/civil order, and stable economic system. I don’t see how abortion fits any of those.
Aquagirl
August 28th, 2010
11:15 am
I didn’t vote Republican in the primaries, but didn’t they put a question about “life begins at conception” on the ballot? If so, wingnuts dutifully herded into polling booths for an entirely meaningless exercise in feel-goodism.
Considering Nathan Deal’s narrow margin of victory, it may be why the Republican party is still held hostage to extremists.
midtownguy
August 28th, 2010
11:20 am
Both parties are held hostage by extremists. Zealots are dangerous, especially the ones on your side.
Carpet Kitten
August 28th, 2010
11:23 am
There are way more important issues in this nation than a moral one like abortion. The way the Democrats are destroying this nation from within, Conservatives need to forget about abortion for now. There are bigger battles that need to be chosen.
Carpet Kitten
August 28th, 2010
11:23 am
For example, US News & World Report’s Mortimer Zuckerman latest article: “The Most Fiscally Irresponsible Government in U.S. History – Current federal budget trends are capable of destroying this country”
Well anyone with an IQ above room temperature can see what liberals and Democrats are doing to this nation. Then of course we have the latest news about our youth: the share of young people aged 16 to 24 who were employed this summer fell to 48.9 percent – the lowest rate on record since 1948. But let’s raise taxes on the evil rich business owners. Hell, let’s jack up the minimum wage to $10/hr too and force EVERY person who employs someone else to pay for their health care. Yeah, that will certainly turn the economy around. As Nancy Pelosi said, “private business needs to start hiring again.” What economic geniuses these leftists are running Washington.
Peter
August 28th, 2010
11:48 am
Hey Not So Casual Observer ……you points are pretty funny……..WW I and WW II…….. yes we should have done nothing then I guess……. Hitler was Good.
The Iraq WAR is current….and has been a total waste, but not really the “Cost Plus Contracts, made a few very wealthy…..nice to see the government can pay for vacations, at a premium.
All the while Bin Laden has been free to do his merry work. Gee his family was rich and friends of the Bush’s.
Do you think we should have invaded Brazil during WW II ? No different than invading Iraq…….Oh wait Iraq had oil…..GEE no wonder……all the oil companies couldn’t get the contracts because of Saddam.
Hey it is the Republican blogger’s who say WAR is good for the economy……I always thought spending the money at home rebuilding America’s infrastructure like Germany has would be a better way to go.
Germany is the model economy for the world these days.
Also abortion is a personal issue…..but wait, Republican’s want to tell all what to do with religion…..the Easter Bunny is about as ” REAL ” as God is.
The Beck fellow is pretty funny as well…..He is a Republican, and preaches going back to God ? There are how many religion’s in the world….and if you don’t believe as each one does then you are going to hell ?
Seems everyone is going to hell then….since no one person alive believes in all of them.
midtownguy
August 28th, 2010
11:52 am
Your personal belief about “when life begins” is a belief, not a fact. Add to that basic premise the understanding that ‘what the Bible says” is irrelevant to a constitutional discussion. It is only relevant to how it influences your personal beliefs (all Christian churches are not anti-abortion). America is not a Christian nation (England on the other hand is, as there is an official state religion), it is a religiously free nation where Christianity is the dominant religion (for now). We can all believe as we choose here and many come here seeking that religious freedom. I think it is the loss of control of this country by white christians that really scares the right wingers to death. It explains a lot of their panic (abortion, immigrants, mosques).
mrs. w
August 28th, 2010
12:17 pm
As long as they don’t pass any laws that says my tax money will pay for one I am over it. I am pro-life but I personally cannot mandate what another woman does. I can only hope that if they make the decision to abort they do so very early in the pregnancy and only put themselves in that position once.
Let’s move on to other issues – this one is dead.
md
August 28th, 2010
12:18 pm
“Your personal belief about “when life begins” is a belief, not a fact. ”
No, there is only one fact – a life form exists at conception. That is proven science.
What folks are arguing is the definition of that life form. A definition that allows for the ending of that life form to make folks all warm and fuzzy about their “choice”.
The other “fact”, is that the “choice” is made long before abortion is even a consideration…………….
midtownguy
August 28th, 2010
1:03 pm
OK I stand corrected. Change that to “Your personal belief as to when a fertilized egg becomes a person/citizen and therefore entitled to constitutional protection.” All else remains unchanged. I do not believe that a fertilized egg is a person but is rather a part of the woman’s body. You believe whatever you want, just don’t impose that belief on others.
VIETNAM VET
August 28th, 2010
1:05 pm
Tea Party Member who want President Obama to follow the will of the people: 54PERCENT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE IN FAVOR OF LEGAL ABORTION.
md
August 28th, 2010
1:17 pm
“I do not believe that a fertilized egg is a person but is rather a part of the woman’s body.”
Out of curiosity, what do you believe it to be??
Leave it alone, and “it” will always grow into some form of “human”. Never seen one turn into a duck or cat or dog……………have you??
LeeH1
August 28th, 2010
1:18 pm
Those against abortion say that it is murder.
Under this view, women who have an abortion should be executed for murder.
Any lesser punishment would indicate that abortion is less than murder.
Remember, too, that making abortion illegal won’t stop it. Murder is illegal, and it still happens every day. We execute some of the murders. Now we will add more women to death row for aborting babies.
Is this what you want?
Skeptic
August 28th, 2010
1:25 pm
@md
The term “life form” has no accepted definition and is, in general, not useful.
The question of when human life begins has been answered differently by different cultures throughout history and, as is true of any question which has ethical/moral dimensions, is a matter of belief, not fact. It is a philosophical rather than a scientific issue.
Aquagirl
August 28th, 2010
1:26 pm
“a life form exists at conception. That is proven science.”
Maybe in wingnut science, where humans rode dinosaurs and abstinence-only education works. If you think a life-form magically exists at conception, fine, but don’t expect to toss that out there and think it should be accepted as fact.
B. Morris
August 28th, 2010
1:36 pm
**Leave it alone, and “it” will always grow into some form of “human”. Never seen one turn into a duck or cat or dog……………have you??**
The left needs to believe otherwise so they can shun any responsibility.
midtownguy
August 28th, 2010
1:36 pm
I defer to the other gender to decide this for themselves. I don’t have to live with the choice.
Good point, LeeH. My mother had three abortions after I was born as her third child (they were illegal back then in Georgia, so she went to NY). It would sure have been tough growing up without a mother if she had been executed for family planning.
Which brings up another point I often make. If you limit abortions, you will only limit them for poor women. Women with means will go wherever it is necessary.
Bubba Bob
August 28th, 2010
1:46 pm
I agree that a woman has a right to her own body. However, the baby inside her is not her body…it’s the baby’s body. The woman does not have a right to it.
md
August 28th, 2010
1:49 pm
“Maybe in wingnut science, where humans rode dinosaurs and abstinence-only education works. If you think a life-form magically exists at conception, fine, but don’t expect to toss that out there and think it should be accepted as fact.”
Might want to revisit high school science. Once the egg is fertilized, it changes into a live organism – I find it interesting that anyone would dispute that fact. What you want to call that organism is what is currently debated.
And for the record, I’m a heathen – no religious zealot. Debating on the concept of logic and the fact that we choose everything we do.
md
August 28th, 2010
1:51 pm
“The term “life form” has no accepted definition and is, in general, not useful. ”
Exactly – it is all about definitions……………..doesn’t change the “fact” that a life form has been created.
md
August 28th, 2010
1:56 pm
“I defer to the other gender to decide this for themselves. I don’t have to live with the choice.”
They did, when they made a “choice” to bring 2 others into the equation. The “child” and the “father”. The argument that “it is her body”, is intellectually dishonest. Since we choose everything we do, consciously or unconsciously, a choice was made prior to conception.
And I’m not arguing the merits of abortion or the legality of it. Merely pointing out the “facts” and how folks use definitions to get around those facts.
Aquagirl
August 28th, 2010
2:03 pm
md, run that by a biology professor and you get a hearty guffaw. I find it interesting you make up arbitrary definitions and then say you’re debating on logic.
Sorry, you can repeat your talking points over and over and they still aren’t factual. Talk to the hand, honey. It’s a lot more understanding as far as your magical sperm moment is concerned.
barking frog
August 28th, 2010
2:05 pm
The law does not regulate pregnant women. The law regulates
abortion providers and allows them to perform abortions at will.
The allowance of abortion only for rape or incest are ineffectual
as doctors have almost no ability to verify these claims other
than to require the woman to report to the police before the
operation. The fetus endangering the life of the woman is
almost non-existent and would be treated as a medical
emergency anyway. Thus it boils down to abortion-at-will
or no abortion. A good step forward would be for pro lifers
to guarantee pregnant women that if they have the baby
they will pay all non insurance covered expenses for
mom and child and guarantee the child will have an
appropriate upbringing.
LizBeth
August 28th, 2010
2:19 pm
rc35@8:54
When abortion became legal, violence toward medical personnel performing abortions and women receiving them stepped up. For many years, I and my friends were afraid to say we were pro-choice because of the violent reactions of those we knew were pro-life. I even attended a church service where the guest speaker encouraged congregants to call in bomb threats to abortion clinics, whether there was an actual bomb or not, to prevent abortions from being performed while the clinic was being evacuated and searched.
Abortion doctors lived in so much fear during the 1980s, female patients in most clinics were not given the name of the physician who worked on them. Can you imagine not knowing who your doctor is just because everyone is so afraid? In America? Women know this experience.
Violence, both physical and emotional, toward women and those who helped them was, and often still is, the message of the pro-life party.
Your proposition is that child abuse statistics rose in this country after abortion was legalized and that it is due to that legalization. I propose that child abuse has risen in this country due to two factors: One, because people are learning to stop hiding abusers and speak up about it, enabling us to recognize it and enact laws requiring people who work with children to report it; and, two, the pro-life movement has supported a message that violence towards those with whom they disagree is acceptable behavior and this supported belligerent attitude is acted out upon family members.
When the pro-life movement focuses on listening skills and respecting all women, who hold within their hearts and wombs these tiniest of bits of life that cannot speak for themselves, then we’ll be on our way to an even greater dialogue where we can focus on eradicating violence toward our children that will have a major impact on our society.
AmVet
August 28th, 2010
2:24 pm
After five decades of trying to legislate morality in a nation that is irrefutably turning away form the old strictures and mores, you’d think the cons would finally wake up to the realities of the modern world. But, nooooooooooooo! They’ve dug in their heals and are now having tent revivals at the Lincoln Monument to restore honor and return to the good old days of the 1950s. What a laugh.
Of course these violence-prone reactionaries, religious nutjobs and science-averse neo-cons are angry! Other than their kids, they can no longer just intimidate and boss entire groups of people around any more, can they?
And they’re enraged about that.
Too bad, so sad. We in the reasoned and reasonable center took that power away from them and they’ll never get it back.
And they will never succeed in outlawing abortion again…
barking frog
August 28th, 2010
2:32 pm
AmVet 2:24 ‘And they will never succeed in outlawing abortion again…’
With the current makeup on the Supreme court it is highly likely this
may indeed happen within the next couple of years.
md
August 28th, 2010
2:32 pm
“md, run that by a biology professor and you get a hearty guffaw.”
Name one – they would have to be awful clueless.
You sure you aren’t misinterpreting “life form/organism” with “human”. One definitely exists, the other is what is up for debate……………
md
August 28th, 2010
2:36 pm
“And they will never succeed in outlawing abortion again…”
And the law matters not one way or the other. What matters is educating folks to the fact that we choose everything we do and actions do have consequences, and maybe the need for abortions will diminish.
AmVet
August 28th, 2010
2:39 pm
What matters is educating folks to the fact that we choose everything we do and actions do have consequences, and maybe the need for abortions will diminish.
Well said.
I abhor abortions. *Especially* as a means of birth control.
But the the Republican “cure” is worse than the disease…
Just_Me
August 28th, 2010
2:47 pm
The government just needs to stay the hell out of social decisions like abortion and gay marriage and leave it up to the individual and whoever they choose to help them make the right decision. It’s none of the governments damn business.
Just_Me
August 28th, 2010
2:49 pm
With the current makeup on the Supreme court it is highly likely this
may indeed happen within the next couple of years.
What on earth makes you say this?? Sorry, but I disagree. Sure the newest members of the court aren’t as clear as others on their abortion stance, but I seriously doubt the two of them would vote yes to overturn them and without them there isn’t a chance in hell that it would be overturned.
barking frog
August 28th, 2010
2:53 pm
we will say a fetus is a healthy body part that the person wants removed.
some doctors will, some refuse..all can legally.
we will say an arm is a healthy body part a person wants removed.
most doctors refuse some might. all can legally.
we will say a penis is a healthy body part that the person wants removed.
some doctors will, some refuse.. all can legally.
In order to circumvent equality before the law the
courts have to find that the fetus is superior to all
other body parts with rights separate from the person.
This is not a great stretch for our current Supremes.
Just_Me
August 28th, 2010
2:53 pm
Considering Nathan Deal’s narrow margin of victory, it may be why the Republican party is still held hostage to extremists.
Amen! And this is the exact reason that more often than not why I don’t vote Republican, because more often than not they are a party of extremists. The Democrats can often be too liberal for me, but in general they are much more moderate than the Republican party. When either side gets too far to their respective sides (right for Republicans and left for Democrats) I dislike it … hence the reason why I am a Moderate, Independent.
md
August 28th, 2010
2:55 pm
“Sure the newest members of the court aren’t as clear as others on their abortion stance, but I seriously doubt the two of them would vote yes to overturn them and without them there isn’t a chance in hell that it would be overturned.”
My 2 cents – the court is already leaning right, and Sotomayor has a Catholic background. Would be interesting…………..
Just_Me
August 28th, 2010
2:55 pm
A fetus is not a body part. A body part is something that is a natural part of the body at birth.
Holy Roller
August 28th, 2010
2:55 pm
As I recall GRTL drew one of the few “pants on fire” ratings from politifact over their statement that Handle’s position would allow abortions of babies like Palin’s son Trig (which is 90% of the reason she came down here to smack down GRTL). Worse is that in doing that they gave up a great deal of their credibility on the issue…”Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness…” is a top 10 as well and equally worth of damnation (there well be a lot of politicians and pundits who pay for that one in the afterlife)
Just_Me
August 28th, 2010
2:56 pm
My 2 cents – the court is already leaning right, and Sotomayor has a Catholic background. Would be interesting………….
True, but I still don’t believe she would vote to overturn it. And ironically most Catholics I know don’t follow the Church on the issue of abortion (well they’re not for it, but they’re not against it … they just truly believe in a woman’s right to choose).
Just_Me
August 28th, 2010
2:57 pm
I still find it crazy that Palin endorsed Handel. Palin has much more in common with Deal. The only thing she has in common with Palin is gender.
md
August 28th, 2010
2:58 pm
“we will say a fetus is a healthy body part that the person wants removed.”
Interesting take on it.
Here’s one for you – how many other body parts will survive if removed from the body and put in an incubator?
Is there really a difference between a fetus inside the womb at 5 months and one born prematurely and already living outside the body??
Definitions are the key………….
md
August 28th, 2010
3:04 pm
“(well they’re not for it, but they’re not against it … they just truly believe in a woman’s right to choose).”
I too firmly believe in the woman’s right to choose, but it is that choice that got her in the predicament to begin with, so………………actions(choices) do have consequences, too bad so many “choose” to remember that after the fact.
whocares
August 28th, 2010
3:06 pm
I have an idea!! Those Anti Abortion Crusaders should be taxed 30% off their total yearly income in addition to regular taxes to take care of kids that may have been aborted. Put all these crusaders on the list, make them adopt kids in orphanages here in America. That would really mean something instead of running your mouth telling others what’s right for them. Put your money where your mouth is!
barking frog
August 28th, 2010
3:06 pm
Just_Me 2:49 I believe Roberts said at some point that Roe v Wade
should be revisited, if so Roberts- catholic,Alito-catholic,Thomas-
catholic,Kennedy-catholic, Scalia-Catholic…
Ted Kennedy died excommunicated because of his pro-choice
views…Which of these would risk that?
barking frog
August 28th, 2010
3:09 pm
Just_Me 2:55 an egg is a body part.
Grand Forks
August 28th, 2010
3:09 pm
The abortion issue is small. More Americans are now against it and it will one day be illegal. Left wing retards have more to worry about now than ever before since Obozo is destroying himself and the democrap party. Oh well, at least left wing retards still have their conservative parents money to live off of for a while.
md
August 28th, 2010
3:17 pm
“I have an idea!! Those Anti Abortion Crusaders should be taxed 30% off their total yearly income in addition to regular taxes to take care of kids that may have been aborted.”
Or, just abort any and all unwanted humans – that would fix it – right? No more juvenile delinquents and senile old folks to contend with.
Or, maybe you can explain the difference…………..
Holy Roller
August 28th, 2010
3:18 pm
“left wing retards”, “obozo”? I’m sure your opinion is taken seriously with choice snippets like that. Does your Mommie know you are on the PC without supervision…be careful or you might get spanked
barking frog
August 28th, 2010
3:26 pm
md 2:58 ‘Here’s one for you – how many other body parts will survive if removed from the body and put in an incubator?
Is there really a difference between a fetus inside the womb at 5 months and one born prematurely and already living outside the body’
——————————————————————————————————————————————–
1.eggs and sperm can be frozen, others may be maintained and cloned(we think)
2.you answer the question yourself, it’s a matter of dependency. my question is,
how can a doctor legally kill either?
josef nix
August 28th, 2010
3:31 pm
As someone earlier said, I don’t have a dog in this fight. This is a breeder issue as far as I personally am concerned and breeders are a messy lot all the way around. My own snipe out of the way, I do have opinions and beliefs, but those are mine and I don’t expect anyone to subscribe to them.
But the bottom line, whether we want to play silly nyanh-nyanh over it or not, is that life begins when egg cell meets sperm cell. The viability, durabilty or desirability of that life is a matter of various factors. The point is, were there no conception, there would be no life. Once the processes begun there stops, then death occurs. We can just as easily say that death begins at conception, Be it the natural process of spontaneous abortion or at the age of 105 in a peaceful passing, an induced abortion or smacked crossing the street by a MARTA bus, life begins and life ends. Those are givens. Make of the rest of it what we will.
Shar
August 28th, 2010
3:33 pm
If abortions are outlawed, they will still happen. They’ll just return to back alleys for those women too poor to get out of the country to have one. The women who must turn to that option will frequently be scarred, mutilated or dead, just as our grandmother’s generation of women were.
An unwanted pregnancy will be dealth with, whether the woman throws herself down a flight of stairs, goes into a back alley or uses her own coathanger.
The antiabortion block either does not believe that supply and demand will prevail or they are pleased that women will be forced into this corner. After all, if they die from an unsafe abortion, they not only deserved it but they will be a warning to other women to toe the line.
GRTL’s rigidity in demanding obedience from any candidate seeking their endorsement in fact means that such candidates support the Hobson’s choice forced upon half of their constituents. Any candidate who is willing to accept endangering my health and that of my daughters, neices, friends and all other Georgian women for the political benefit to be gained through GRTL makes it impossible for me to vote for him or her.
midtownguy
August 28th, 2010
3:34 pm
Pro Choice folks arguing with Pro LIfe folks over abortion is like Jews arguing with Catholics over Jesus Christ being the Messiah. One group will never convince the other.
barking frog
August 28th, 2010
3:39 pm
joseph 3:31 ‘ life begins when egg cell meets sperm cell’
both are living before the ‘collision’ and together become more
than separate. we have continuity not creation. as to the “dog
in the fight” I believe you would give give your life to save a child
in the street about to be hit by a car…
josef nix
August 28th, 2010
3:44 pm
barking
Again, the point is not whether or not the cell is “living” but whether or not the life cycle has begun… as to whether or not I would give my life to save a child in the street about to be hit by a car…of course I would. I am conditioned to do so, that conditioning being as much the evolutionary nature of the species as some great moral imperitive. I would like to believe it’s the latter, but in the broader view of the thing from the biological perspective, I doubt it.
barking frog
August 28th, 2010
4:00 pm
josef 3:44 ‘ I am conditioned to do so, that conditioning being as much the evolutionary nature of the species as some great moral imperitive.’
——————————————-
that is why i am ambivalent to the pro-lifers, but not so much the pro-choicers,
with birth control, condoms, morning after, 3 days after, and self restraint,
possibly roe v wade might need revisiting…
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
August 28th, 2010
4:22 pm
Killing people is wrong, period. A woman has no right to kill anyone, even somebody residing within herself for the time being. The man is culpable, too, as we all are for letting it happen. We make Hitler and his cronies look like rank amateurs.
Aside from the moral catastrophe, this killing is a judgment in and of itself. This is why Democrats and Republicans know if we do not let the Mexicans in, we will have to get a lot of people from somewhere to fund Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Obamacare, ad infinitum. When you have killed 40 million to 50 million of your fellow citizens, minimum, you are short significant revenue.
jt
August 28th, 2010
4:33 pm
md schooled everyone, IMHO.
Be that as it may, if abortions were illegal,
women AND men would behave with more caution.
This would have a positive impact on our disintegrating society.
And I damn sure don’t want to pay for abortions with my tax money, like I currently am.
josef nix
August 28th, 2010
4:38 pm
Anybody heard anything from the candidates’ debate?
jt
August 28th, 2010
4:49 pm
Jo-
The only thing I heard was local news snippets. Only what Barnes and Deal had to say.
Imagine that.
That is why I came here.
josef nix
August 28th, 2010
5:05 pm
jt
They ain’t gonna let Monds be heard, are they? Just think, a candidate YOU and I both might vote for…no wonder they want him silenced…
Aquagirl
August 28th, 2010
5:07 pm
You have an unquestioned right to your body parts even if you’re dead. Someone who specifically says they don’t want to donate their organs can take them to the grave, even if a cute little kid is dying for lack of their now-unused liver. Their family can make that decision too.
You can’t be forced to donate blood, bone marrow, or any other part of your body. Even if you consent to do so, you can reverse that decision and say “no” at any time.
So, why would abortion be any different?
I have yet to hear any rational answer to that question.
josef nix
August 28th, 2010
5:16 pm
Aquagirl
Just playing advocatus diaboli here, but then would you be in favor of free access to third trimester abortions? The fetus is still attached to the woman’s body.
jt
August 28th, 2010
5:22 pm
Aquagirl
August 28th, 2010
5:07 pm
“You have an unquestioned right to your body parts even if you’re dead. ”
What country to you live in?
Roger
August 28th, 2010
5:24 pm
I am sooo sick and tired of these organizations bullying their positions and the politicians who do not have the backbone to stand up to them. I am an Independent and have no desire to vote for Deal or any politician for that matter that bends to the whim of this EXTREME right wing organization.
These people hate gays, non Christians..so much for “Love one another” huh? Shar is 100% correct.
Also, I have news for you, Georgia is Red now but the demographics are changing rapidly. In 10 years, you will not be able to recognize it. There is a huge influx of people from northern, i.e. more liberal states…Heck I saw that Catholicism is the FASTEST growing religion in Georgia…Better hope they are not NorthEast Catholics…lol
josef nix
August 28th, 2010
5:29 pm
Roger
I personally do not see the influx of Northerners as such a good idea and I’m a left-wing liberal, gay, Jew…
No More Progressives!
August 28th, 2010
6:37 pm
landry
August 27th, 2010
9:50 pm
You are correct, you don’t understand. I was mocking the bigoted who scream about illegals on one hand arguing legality while decrying legal abortion on the other hand. It’s a complex argument, so don’t beat yourself for not understanding the hypocrisy of the delusional right.
Complex? Really. Give us a try.
What do “the bigoted” and “abortion” have to do with each other?
The delusional right?
You’re really Alan Grayson, right?
killerj
August 28th, 2010
7:24 pm
Hey Kyle,I would worry about the democrats party not extant after 2012 elections.”My God” look at the bailouts from that party.
killerj
August 28th, 2010
8:10 pm
Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,oh man,here,s one for you bible thumpers,what came first the woman or the egg,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,oh crap I just spilt my beer all over myself.
Tell the truth……………….?
josef nix
August 28th, 2010
8:19 pm
Killer
Chicken and an egg are lying in bed. Egg has a satisfied look oh his face, smoking a cigarette. Chicken sez, “well, I guess that answers that question.”
marko
August 28th, 2010
8:30 pm
Kyle have you lost your mind. The pinko liberals think the founding fathers were little more tha rich white boys that resented paying taxes, fought duels and slept with their slaves. Of all people you should know better. Did’nt they give us the second admendment so we could shoot any devil worshipping doctors low enough to give these ignorant sluts abortions? Did’nt Jesus make it clear that he did’nt want us to stone them anymore? Can’t stone em, shoot em. That’s what I always say.
mystified
August 28th, 2010
8:47 pm
I support the right of every human being to choose not to have unprotected sex outside of marriage. Have unprotected sex with an HIV positive person. You may get HIV. It’s a consequence. Play with a loaded gun. You may get shot. It’s a consequence. Have unprotected sex, someone may get pregnant. Another consequence but liberals don’t want to have to face the consequences of their indiscretion. They want to have the right to kill the baby so they aren’t inconvenienced.
These people are such sorry excuses. They can’t define exactly when life begins; but they want to kill the baby anyway. They have no desire to side with caution. Abort Abort Abort… ANytime they want. It’s their choice. Well they made a choice and chose poorly. Live with the consequences.
It’s time to sever this union. I say lets let the libs pick 25 states and the rest of us take the remaining 25. Let them have their moral depravity, welfare mentality, and hate america first ideals. We can reestablish a country that may be found pleasing to God.
landry
August 28th, 2010
9:28 pm
Life begins with a boner!
josef nix
August 28th, 2010
9:33 pm
landry
Got a point there, but breeders is messy!
landry
August 28th, 2010
9:46 pm
“Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it. Let’s do it, let’s fall in love.”
landry
August 28th, 2010
10:17 pm
immaculate deception, its all about control , sex is beautiful, enjoy your body, jesus was a player, conservatives are player haters….
killerj
August 28th, 2010
10:21 pm
Don,t worry be happy! sheeezzzz b#tch another one!
barking frog
August 28th, 2010
10:40 pm
conjoined twins come to the doctor and say they want to
to be separated. the doctor says i can separate you but
one of you will die. the twins say the separation must go
on because the current condition is too inconvenient for
them. should the doctor perform the operation and kill
one for the convenience of the survivor?
killerj
August 28th, 2010
10:45 pm
One demOcrat says to the other demOcrat are you voting for the people or are you voting for the agenda?
landry
August 28th, 2010
10:56 pm
Dad: There are Jews in the world, there are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons and then,
There are those that follow Mohammud, BUT
I’ve never been one of them.
I’m a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing
they say about Catholics
Is they’ll take you as soon as you’re warm.
You don’t have to be a six footer,
You don’t have to have a great brain,
You don’t have to have any clothes on,
You’re a Catholic the moment Dad came.
Because…
Every sperm is
sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
Children: Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
Child: Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty g
round,
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can’t be found.
Children: Every sperm is wanted,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.
Mum: Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God l
oves those who treat their
Semen with more care.
Men: Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
Women:
If a sperm is wasted,
Children:
God gets quite irate.
Priest: Every sperm is wanted,
Br. & Gr:
Every sperm is good,
Nannies:
Every sperm is needed,
Cardinal:
In your neighborhood.
Children: Every sperm is useful,
Every sperm is fine,
Funeral:
God needs everybody’s,
Mourner1:
Mine!
Mourner2:
And mine!
Corpse:
And mine!
Nun: Let the Pagan spill theirs,
O’er m
ountain, hill, and plain,
Statues: God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that’s spilt in vain.
Everyone: Every sperm is wanted,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.
Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If
a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
killerj
August 28th, 2010
11:06 pm
Oh god,the crooked z,s have spoken,now we know.pety-files not included,money is # 1.
blackbird13
August 28th, 2010
11:10 pm
Quite simple to me: no way in hell is any government enforcer ever going to force my wife to give birth if she chooses not to, and I don’t care what the law of the land is. Fortunately it is a moot point because there isn’t even a remote chance of the law changing. About the only way it could happen is if Democrats reversed completely on just that one part of their platform, but even then I doubt many of the pro-lifers would suddenly become Democrats.
Cry for us, America
August 28th, 2010
11:26 pm
“I understand that intellectual consistency dictates that the unborn’s right to life isn’t lessened by the circumstances of conception.”
Do you know what a STRAWMAN argument is? Because you’ve constructed a DOOZIE here. Your interpretation of what constitutes “intellectual consistency” is purely subjective. Your very terminology, “the unborn”, is value-laden, rendering your declaration of an apparently moot point…not. There are many who don’t believe that a zygote or early fetus HAS any “right” to be born. There are many who believe that the rights of a pregnant woman trump the rights of said zygote/early fetus up until a point.
So – you can hardly suggest as given that logical consistency demands that a zygote conceived of rape has an equal right to life as any OTHER zygote, when there are many who ascribe such rights to neither.
I realize that this argument will not register on the average rabid pro-lifer, as will my own statement that I, PERSONALLY, oppose the practice of abortion but believe it should be legal. Such complexities tend to escape…you people. However, since you PRETEND to be at least something of a journalist, you should be more circumspect in the implied assumptions of your language.
Unless you’re just not really a journalist of any sort…which I think more likely.
beachwriter
August 28th, 2010
11:27 pm
It just galls me that the Republican Party continues to shoot itself in the foot over this issue! I’m a fiscal conservative who is moderate to liberal on social issues.I voted for Bill Clinton in 1992 because the extreme right-wing zealots of the Republican Party who wanted to impose their right-wing morality on everyone scared the bee-jeebers out of me. I have been a contributing member of EMILY’s List in the past, although I quit that crazy bunch of liberals several years ago. Bottom line: the ONLY people who should have any input into a woman’s reproductive functions are the woman, her significant other, her physician, and her God. Everyone else needs to just BUTT THE HELL OUT. This issue was a primary reason why I became a card-carrying, dues-paying member of the Libertarian Party about 10 years ago – my body, MY choice. If you are against abortion, fine – don’t have one. There is no law on the books forcing you to do so. But I’m pretty sure the New Testament teaches us “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” All you “judgers” out there need to pay attention to your own lives and stay out of those of others.
Dulcinea
August 28th, 2010
11:34 pm
Abortion is a wedge issue that keeps one-issue voters voting Republican. Why else would so many poor people vote for a party that blatantly favors the rich?
Wingphase
August 29th, 2010
1:25 am
Just because its legal doesn’t mean is logical, ethical, moral or does justice for the unborn. Roe v Wade legalizing. The reason anybody reading or writing emails is because you were not aborted. Yes its legal, but after 50 million abortions since Roe v Wade is outdated because of technology we know when life starts.
Lou
August 29th, 2010
3:26 am
I would bet my life on this: If Nathan Deal (substitute any politician’s name here) had a 13-year-old daughter who became pregnant as a result of rape or incest, he would instantly become a believer in abortion. If he were saddistic enough to force his child to go through with the pregnancy, he is not worthy of being called a human being. These people with these rigid views on abortion have the views for OTHER people to follow. I admired Karen Handel for her realistic and compassionate view of this issue.
jconservative
August 29th, 2010
7:59 am
If one wants to use the “police power” of the government to force a pregnant woman to give birth, I would also want the “police power” of the government to see that the child had proper medical care until it was an adult.
public school teacher
August 29th, 2010
9:45 am
I love how the conservative right is so concerned about government not interfereing with people’s rights except in the case of abortion. They are so concerned about the unborn until they are born. They then care very little about medical care or education for the economically disadvantaged children of our country. They cry out for charter schools so their children won’t have to go to school with the economically disadvantaged, disabled, and otherwise underlings of society. Right wing conservatives are so blind with nosticism they cannot see the irony of their views.
J.B. STONER
August 29th, 2010
11:09 am
Run em through Fulton Co. and De Kalb health depts, make it mandatory vasectomys and walla!!!
PROBLEM SOLVED………..
Vote Pro-life.
August 29th, 2010
11:29 am
Abortion is the only issue upon which the Right deserves to win elections is their stand on abortion.
And yes, it’s enough to justify your vote for the GOP.
But no, it’s not enough to justify Glenn Beck.
A jihadist responds.
August 29th, 2010
11:31 am
Abortion is the only issue upon which Iran deserves credibility when it calls America the Great Satan.
Yes, it’s enough to justify the jihad.
No, it’s not enough to justify Glenn Beck.
blackbird13
August 29th, 2010
11:57 am
The “you wouldn’t be here if you’d been aborted” argument is one of the dumbest lines of (un)reasoning I’ve ever heard. I also might not be here if my mother had had a headache, of if any other number of things had happened. If I weren’t here, I wouldn’t know about it. In fact, the world would not exist, nothing would exist, including me. From any individual’s perspective, the world only exists as long as that individual does. And the other specious nonsense is the line about aborting future cancer curers, ignoring that future Hitlers are just as possible. The fact is, most women who feel they need to choose an abortion would be probably lousy parents (and spare me the adoption retort, there are too many unwanted born children).
md
August 29th, 2010
11:59 am
“I love how the conservative right is so concerned about government not interfereing with people’s rights except in the case of abortion. They are so concerned about the unborn until they are born.”
Once again, it is all about the definitions. No one complains that the gov’t has laws that we can’t knock off unwanted children, or laws that outlaw murder, or the current laws on euthanasia. What I find interesting is that because of a defintion, folks believe it is ok to knock off an unborn child just because they don’t want it.
Certainly can’t do that during the teen years when many parents would certainly entertain the idea.
md
August 29th, 2010
12:06 pm
“You have an unquestioned right to your body parts even if you’re dead. Someone who specifically says they don’t want to donate their organs can take them to the grave, even if a cute little kid is dying for lack of their now-unused liver. Their family can make that decision too.
You can’t be forced to donate blood, bone marrow, or any other part of your body. Even if you consent to do so, you can reverse that decision and say “no” at any time.
So, why would abortion be any different?
I have yet to hear any rational answer to that question.”
I’ll take a stab at it:
All other parts of the body are made up of cells completely from the individual. When a woman makes a choice to share herself (and yes, there are exceptions), she has created an organism that contains parts of another. I find it interesting that a woman chooses to share, but after she does, it is back to mine, mine, mine, when the “father” should have an equal “right” to the creation. If the female does not want to share that right, then she should choose otherwise prior to bringing another party into the equation.
md
August 29th, 2010
12:12 pm
“Abortion is a wedge issue that keeps one-issue voters voting Republican. Why else would so many poor people vote for a party that blatantly favors the rich?”
Because there are many poor that still have ethics. They know it is wrong for the gov’t to take from one to give to another just because they can.
We choose everything we do, and choices do have consequences.
Should a student that chooses to study 24/7 and do no partying and makes A’s, have to share those A’s with a student that chooses to party 24/7 while doing very little studying and makes D’s and F’s?????
Your answer should tell you a lot about yourself……………….
Jed Rothwell
August 29th, 2010
12:20 pm
These views seem illogical and inconsistent. You support abortion in three cases: 1. When the life of the mother is endangered; 2. Incest and 3. Rape. You oppose it for late term abortions, yet these are only done when the mother’s life is endangered, so it is the same as #1 and you should support it.
Abortion in the case of incest (#2) is to avoid genetic problems, but in fact they seldom occur. There are many other situations in which severe genetic problems are likely, or in which tests reveal actual genetic problems. If you support #2, why would you not also let women abort genetically damaged fetuses?
#3 is presumably allowed because the woman is not responsible. She did not intend to become pregnant, and she could not prevent it. By that the same same standard, you should allow an abortion when contraception fails. That is, unless you think women should not have sex in the first place, or they should be punished for a medical failure of a contraceptive device.
Applying your standards and criteria more carefully, as I have done here, shows that you support just about all abortions. Or that you are inconsistent and have not thought the problem through. Or, that you would ban as many abortions as you can without any regard for whether it makes sense, or — for that matter — whether the ban is fair to the men and women having sex, or enforceable.
J.B. STONER
August 29th, 2010
12:26 pm
who cares what a ‘jihad thinks anyway?
Watch Fox news people . You are better off watching ‘Sesame Street’ if you don’t…….
landry
August 29th, 2010
12:50 pm
life begins when the nipple makes itself known and your rounding third base…
Peter
August 29th, 2010
12:59 pm
If you BELIEVE in the Bible……… ” Incest ” is the basis for Humanity !
After Cain killed able…….. how were more folks born ?
md
August 29th, 2010
1:09 pm
“After Cain killed able…….. how were more folks born ?”
When I was growing up, it was the stork………….
Peter
August 29th, 2010
1:16 pm
Adam and Eve didn’t have any girls did they …… please correct me if I am wrong.
So how can anyone say….. the Bible says a person is a person at what point in egg development ?
The Bible is a ” Good book ” ……. man made……WHY ?
To try to (1) control the masses. (2) to be used as a guide line to live a better life, than just doing what ever you personally, or selfishly desire to do.
The golden rule would suffice……but the masses don’t adhere to that logic, since the masses are without logic…….thus Religion based on FEAR !
Yes fear …… be bad go to Hell ! That is the Fear factor.
Aquagirl
August 29th, 2010
3:00 pm
md @ 12:06, the woman can decide not to donate bone marrow to the 12 year old co-creation with someone else. So a man has a right to force her to accommodate a blastocyst, but not their grown child? The father does not carry the child in his body. She’s a receptacle, willing or unwilling? Are you still on your Sacred Sperm kick?
Still haven’t heard a reasonable answer as to why abortion should be a LEGAL exception to the right to one’s body. We would be repulsed by Red Cross workers pinning a queasy, fainting blood donor to their chair. (Donate blood and you’ll see some last minute backouts.) Those nice ladies with the cookies would be jailed and sued beyond belief.
interested observer
August 29th, 2010
3:22 pm
One thing Republicans are consistent about is characterizing their opponents as liberal, whether they’re facing a Democrat in a general election or a fellow Republican in a tight primary. It’s childish.
It doesn’t do anything for credibility any more than Handel, characterizing Nathan Deal as a crook and 24 hours after losing to a man she said was not fit to be governor endorsing the same for governor.
Call it situational principles. Not pretty.
Peter
August 29th, 2010
3:43 pm
This is what Republican’s are good at…..wasting American money !
AP IMPACT: US wasted billions in rebuilding Iraq
AP – In this Sunday, Aug. 15, 2010 photo, a worker walks through the nearly-complete waste water treatment …
By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer Kim Gamel, Associated Press Writer – 2 mins ago
KHAN BANI SAAD, Iraq – A $40 million prison sits in the desert north of Baghdad, empty. A $165 million children’s hospital goes unused in the south. A $100 million waste water treatment system in Fallujah has cost three times more than projected, yet sewage still runs through the streets
As the U.S. draws down in Iraq, it is leaving behind hundreds of abandoned or incomplete projects. More than $5 billion in American taxpayer funds has been wasted — more than 10 percent of the some $50 billion the U.S. has spent on reconstruction in Iraq, according to audits from a U.S. watchdog agency.
They start a made up WAR…Bilk the American public with “Cost Plus Contracts”……then waste more money.
Then they refuse to help American’s at home, and refuse to rebuild the American infrastructure.
But maybe God told them to do all of this ?
Mike
August 29th, 2010
4:23 pm
As someone who has been a liberal most of his life, I find most Republicans (and liberals) to be disingenuous. They act as if they are pro-life, but they seem to dispise the living.
When a person promotes war, has contempt for the poor, and doesn’t walk along the path the Lord set, then I have no faith that the said person is pro-life.
I am pro-life. This means I am against abortion, against war, and in favor of helping the poor.
Carry on.
Highten
August 29th, 2010
5:38 pm
Landry, nice analogy although I would say adult life gets exciting at that time. Look abortion is legal for a reason. It will stay legal in this country because, sex, not being a religious experience, is a basic biological function. One whose inherent outcomes are dependent upon the participants line of thought. It’s their business in other words. No church leader nor anyone else has any right to subjugate a woman of free will to carrying any unwanted child to term, ESPECIALLY in the matter of rape or incest in particular. You might not like my position but I am pro-choice, pro death penalty, believe in killing in self defense, and sometimes wars are necessary. That has integrity. I am for life termination when circumstances warrant. The pro life movement is blatant hypocrisy and no amount of argument to the contrary will ever change that fact.
LizBeth
August 29th, 2010
6:48 pm
“It will stay legal in this country because, sex, not being a religious experience, is a basic biological function.”
Oh, good. Now we can talk about the legalization of prostitution, too…
josef nix
August 29th, 2010
7:02 pm
“Oh, good. Now we can talk about the legalization of prostitution, too…”
I’m for it.
landry
August 29th, 2010
7:41 pm
orgasms for all my men
No More Progressives!
August 29th, 2010
7:46 pm
AmVet
August 28th, 2010
2:24 pm
Of course these violence-prone reactionaries, religious nutjobs and science-averse neo-cons are angry! Other than their kids, they can no longer just intimidate and boss entire groups of people around any more, can they?
Too bad, so sad. We in the reasoned and reasonable center took that power away from them and they’ll never get it back.
1. Where was the violence?
2. “We” in the reasoned and reasonable “center?” Who is we?
You’re so far to the left, ScamWet, you make Stalin & Lenin sound sane. Who do you think you’re kidding?
md
August 29th, 2010
7:59 pm
“When a person promotes war, has contempt for the poor, and doesn’t walk along the path the Lord set, then I have no faith that the said person is pro-life.
I am pro-life. This means I am against abortion, against war, and in favor of helping the poor. ”
“Contempt for the poor” is such a broad brushstroke. There is a difference between “can’t” care for oneself and “won’t” care for oneself.
The won’ts are quite capable of doing so but choose not to – I see no problem with letting them live with the consequences of that choice. Too many bleeding heart excuse makers want to give them a pass, which actually does them more harm than good. Enabling is not the same as helping…..
JF McNamara
August 29th, 2010
8:01 pm
I agree with Road Scholar. Who cares? I’ll take care of things in my own house, and I’ll let others handle their homes the way that they want. Making it a wedge issue is dumb, and changing the law will make things drastically worse. It wasn’t all smiles and sunshine before Roe vs. Wade, but I’m sure none of those against abortions care about that or have any way of solving those issues.
Real American
August 29th, 2010
8:06 pm
The GOP just like the fake Right To Life groups could care less about abortion. They just want control and to make sure the white population stays a majority. LOL…since they see that’s not happening, they’re bunkering down on this pro-life craziness. Seriously….they could care less.
md
August 29th, 2010
8:19 pm
“She’s a receptacle, willing or unwilling? Are you still on your Sacred Sperm kick? ”
Merely pointing out that all too often folks resort to abortion when the choice should be made much earlier – we choose everything we do and all choices have consequences, if one doesn’t want to have a child, choose not to prior to getting pregnant – not too difficult to do.
J.B. STONER
August 29th, 2010
8:21 pm
How about Glenn Beck……………
OUTSTANDING JOB YESTERDAY !!
Peter
August 29th, 2010
8:50 pm
JB what did Beck do that was outstanding ?
Please let us know….Thank you !
BRW
August 29th, 2010
9:14 pm
The very idea someone would use the name of J.B. STONER in public says abortion can be a good thing. Too bad his parents didn’t see the light on that one.
landry
August 29th, 2010
10:38 pm
if I said you have a beautiful body would you hold it against me
if I swore you were an angel would you treat me like the devil tonight
if I were dying of thirst would your flowing love come quench me
if I said you have a beautiful body would you hold it against me
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
6:38 am
Alrighty…. as a LIB who is pro-choice…I’ll cave in and agree to make abortions “illegal” when the “all life is sacred-sanctity of life” crowd agrees to the following:
1-The will adopt EVERY SINGLE CHILD around the world who needs a home first before we make it illegal. They also agree to adopt ever child born once it enters the world if the parents can not provide for it. Failure to do this means you are kicked out of your mega-church and will spend eternity in hell for not helping out a tiny “already born” human.
2- The “sanctity of life” crowd will condemn and make the death penalty illegal on the same day that abortions are banned. I mean who are we “humans” to judge other humans? I thought only your god (well YOUR version of he/she) can judge one’s life. Also… no more “collateral damage” of any humans when starting phony wars. If other innocent humans are killed during the bombings…you agree to say our troops and military “murdered” them (just as you do for “not yet born” embryos).
So..there’s more offer Talibangelical “right to life” crowd. Put your money where your mouth is when it comes to “life” and respecting those ALREADY BORN as much as you value the life of the not born.
mike
August 30th, 2010
7:25 am
I am sure glad to see the repubs are still dealing with the abortion issue. Always one person trying to decide what another chooses to do with their life. Georgia should always be proud to be on the cutting edge of abortion since it is a legal procedure. It does not matter Georgia’s education is at the bottom when it comes to education for kids. We have two other states dictating how we should use our water. The lottery school funds are running out. A group of people are trying to elect a man governor who ran from a D.C. ethics investigation. Etc and etc and you folks are talking about abortion. How about trying to do something for the people who are already here and living in this state.
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
7:55 am
mike, just remember….they’re the party of LESS GOVERNMENT….right? Which of course makes sense when they do all they can to get involved in people’s personal lives by restricting or banning their write…by government “control” of what they can do to their own bodies… or by saying who can get married and who can not… when one can buy booze, and where… where a strip club can or can not open. Yups….let “government” involvement and an open “free market” system for all… expect for those things….
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
8:25 am
Real American
August 29th, 2010
8:06 pm
The GOP just like the fake Right To Life groups could care less about abortion. They just want control and to make sure the white population stays a majority. LOL…since they see that’s not happening, they’re bunkering down on this pro-life craziness. Seriously….they could care less.
I see that Dennis Kucinich and his spaceship landed, along with a group of moonbat visitors.
How was the ride, Real? They serve drinks in zero gravity?
williebkind
August 30th, 2010
8:39 am
Abortion is the law of the land because judges created law. Is that law of the land? Do judges create law? That is a progressive liberal’s way of thinking. Abortion is still illegal unitl congress passes a law and the president signs it. But liberals use the judges to get illegal laws a pass that fits their vile disgusting agendas.
williebkind
August 30th, 2010
8:41 am
Peter
August 29th, 2010
8:50 pm
You did not see Beck or listen to him? But you seem to have the facts without knowing the information. How progressive liberal!
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
8:44 am
willie…so I guess you’ll agree that Bush was never “Prez”…either…
williebkind
August 30th, 2010
8:45 am
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
7:55 am
If we are going to allow sin, how about rape. A lot of progressive liberals may have someone they would like to molest. Oh I see you determine sin and not the creator. This government was born under the finger print of the creator and not the progressive liberals. I know its hurts but you will get over it.
williebkind
August 30th, 2010
8:47 am
No he had the votes! He had to go to court to get Al Gore off his back. You know he conceded then withdrew it…right?
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
8:49 am
Liberals & Progressives are in denial about Beck, willie.
And as you alluded, progressives are always the smartest people in the room. No need for background or research. They just know……….
williebkind
August 30th, 2010
8:52 am
You are challenging their lies No More Progressives…keep it up because I am.
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
8:54 am
Willie….really? If that’s the case…tell me about the 10 commandments and how many of them are “actual” laws.
I’ll wait.
md
August 30th, 2010
8:55 am
So nice to see that the solution to overcrowding and unwanted children is just to do away with them. My what a great society it will be when folks believe it is more convenient to whack em vs care for them.
Of course these same folks believe actions should not have consequences and excuses are the norm.
md
August 30th, 2010
8:58 am
“The “sanctity of life” crowd will condemn and make the death penalty illegal on the same day that abortions are banned.”
Always loved the logic behind this one – comparing someone that more than likely committed a very heinous act against another human to the most innocent life form on earth.
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:00 am
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
8:54 am
Murder
Stealing
Adultery (covet thy neighbor)
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
9:02 am
Willie also…if this “government” was “born under the finger of god”…. I see the bible is FULL of references to Kings…yet I see no mention of a democratic government ANYWHERE in it. Please post the parts of the bible that show EXACTLY the form of government we have set up here.
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:02 am
md
August 30th, 2010
8:58 am
These are the same people that will flush a zygote down the toilet without a second thought; yet they’ll mollycoddle a barbarian murdering terrorist under the guise of compassion and bigotry.
It never made sense and still doesn’t.
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:03 am
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
9:02 am
For the 40 eleventh time; we are not a Democracy. We are a Representative Republic.
Most people learn that in middle school civics.
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
9:07 am
No More….okay…show me that part of the bible…show me EXACTLY where it mentions ” Representative Republics” are what YOUR (version of) god intended when it came to governments.
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
9:11 am
That’s right no more…actually only the first TWO. Don’t kill anyone and don’t steal…cheating with your neighbor’s wife or with ANYONE outside of your marriage is NOT against the law. WHile it can be used as one’s grounds for filing a divorce…divorce is a “civil” matter….You don’t go to jail or for it.
so just how is it if OUR LAWS are based upon your cult’s fable…that there are TEN commandments and only TWO of them made it to become LAWS of the land?
Seems to me that your cult did NOT form the laws of our land. Not even close…
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:13 am
Our government (or what acts as a government) is not Biblicly based, Sally. You need look no further than the Romans. Republic is from the Latin res publica, meaning public affairs.
I find it somewhere between amusing and revolting that a lefty, among the first to scream “Separation of Church & State!!!!!” wants to see a Biblical foundation for our government, much less any government.
Are you that desparate?
You wanted laws, Sally. I listed three.
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
9:17 am
You wanted laws, Sally. I listed three.
And i “proved” that our laws here are NOT based upon those TWO laws which you correctly identified… 20% of those 10 laws are only actual laws? Seems to me that we’re so far from having our laws based upon your cult’s bible that we’re just what the founders intended… NOTHING close to being a Theocracy.
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:17 am
Several City Room readers this week have pointed out that adultery is still, technically, a crime in New York State.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/is-adultery-a-crime-in-new-york/
Try again, Sally.
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:18 am
What you proved, Sally, is that you’re desparate.
Saul Good
August 30th, 2010
9:22 am
Gee no more…that really shows how it’s the “law of the land”…which unlike abortion being legal (which IS the law of the and)…again, I stand by what I said above…adultery is NOT the law of the land.
Enjoy being so “christ” like yourself… you’re about as far from following the teachings of your cults figure head as one could possibly be. Must suck being so pissed at the world all the time… enjoy the stress… c-ya! Salami Baloney!
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:26 am
Run, Sally. Go find HDB or CJ or ScamWet over at Bookmans waste of time site & compare your tax brackets.
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2010
9:28 am
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:18 am
What you proved, Sally, is that you’re desparate.
Uh, you make the claim our laws are based on the ten commandments,—they’re clearly not—then Saulgood is “desparate?” (sic)
BWAHAHAHA!
Abortion is legal, our basis of government is distinctly secular, and the crazy religious crowd is the one being flushed down the drain. Oh, and Jesus is wayyyyyyy overdue to rapture folk who want to see everyone else live in torment. Life is tough nowadays for the bible-thumpers.
AmVet
August 30th, 2010
9:28 am
For the 40 eleventh time; we are not a Democracy. We are a Representative Republic.
Patently incorrect.
A representative democracy is a form of government founded on the principle of elected individuals representing the people, as opposed to autocracy and direct democracy.
A representative democracy that emphasizes individual liberty is a liberal democracy. One that does not is an illiberal democracy. There is no necessity that individual liberties be respected in a representative democracy.
Today, in liberal democracies, representatives are usually elected in multi-party elections that are free and fair. The power of representatives in a liberal democracy is usually curtailed by a constitution (as in a constitutional republic or a constitutional monarchy) or other measures to balance representative power:
We are a Representative Republic.
Again, false.
The United States of America is a federal constitutional republic.
A federal republic is a federation of states with a republican form of government. A federation is the central government. The states in a federation also maintain the federation. Usage of the term republic is inconsistent but, as a minimum, it means a state or federation of states that does not have a monarch.
In a federal republic, there is a division of powers between the national “federal” government, and the government of the individual subdivisions.
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:33 am
The a great opinion piece, Scammer, but you need look no further than our founding documents. We are, in fact, a Representative Republic.
Make it up as you go, progressive. You have no foundation to support you.
Didn’t you take middle school civics?
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:35 am
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2010
9:28 am
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:18 am
Uh, you make the claim our laws are based on the ten commandments,—they’re clearly not—then Saulgood is “desparate?” (sic)
Can you read English, water femina? I never said our laws were based on the 10 commandments.
Sally asked for commandments that were laws; I listed 3.
Pay attention, please. You’re dragging the conversation.
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
9:36 am
“….and the crazy religious crowd is the one being flushed down the drain.”
That’s not nice. That’s no way to talk about your new masters, the Taliban.
Aquagirl
August 30th, 2010
9:46 am
@ troll, zzzzzzzz…….
No, arguing about the legality of abortion is dragging the conversation about how to fix Georgia after years of pray-on-the-steps-for-rain Sonny. Too bad for you it’s the wingnut side that’s the drag on Nathan Deal.
AmVet
August 30th, 2010
9:48 am
So lets see, I provide two definitions that countermand the absurd statement that the USA is not a democracy.
And the response?
I have no foundation to support me.
That and puerile questions regarding the education and knowledge level of anyone who dares disagree with him.
Niiice.
LA
August 30th, 2010
9:52 am
“And the response?”
Your one to talk, ScamVet. I seem to remember a blog in which you really put your foot in your mouth. Something about you not knowing that LA was the abbreviation for Louisiana.
Non too bright is ya, Scam.
LizBeth
August 30th, 2010
9:53 am
Jesus makes it very clear that there are laws of God’s and laws of people. It’s the laws of people that so often get in the way of loving and respecting others. God’s law, according to Jesus, is about loving God and your neighbor.
When Jesus erupts in the Temple, he is angry at those who would sell church, those who make a mockery of loving God. He gets angry at those who would fling stones at those who don’t obey societal mores without examining themselves first. Where does abortion fit into all of this? Be very careful of making laws that make a mockery of God’s love and fling stones at women without recognizing how love, in the long run, will make better mothers and decrease the abortion rate. As long as our societal environment is one of bullying and begging women (which is not love) not to have abortions, and is a society that promotes fear, abortions will still happen.
Peter
August 30th, 2010
9:56 am
Hey williebkind ……when you mix a Religious message with politics…….. who cares.
Kind of like talking about the Easter Bunny and Politics.
No different.
Peter
August 30th, 2010
9:58 am
Hey LizBeth….which laws of people are you talking about that gets in the way of love and caring ?
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
10:02 am
Memo to Scammer:
Republic Rules – The U.S.A. is a great representative republic.
http://www.republicrules.com/
We’re not a Democracy (another word for mob rule); we’ve never been a Democracy, and with luck, we’ll never be a Democracy.
For those of you dolts that skipped middle school civics, a Democracy is when 50% of the electorate plus one votes on an issue, and it becomes law.
Why is the world do you think they call it the House of Representatives?
AmVet
August 30th, 2010
10:17 am
No More, when challenged and/or bested you become little more than a childish insulter. But I’m sure, I’m not the first here to either note nor comment on that characteristic.
Pout away, but it does not change the fact that the United States of America is a representative democracy.
Hell, the definition right out of the dictionary alone proves you are wrong – a type of democracy in which the citizens delegate authority to elected representatives.
Representative democracy is a form of democracy in which the people allow others to represent them in the various forms of democratic process and are not necessarily directly involved in any of the processes of legislation or lawmaking. This form of democracy is found at the federal level of the United States (US).
And I know full well, that you are a much more credible source that the Encyclopedia Brittanica, but hey, I’m grasping at straws here! (LOL)
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/498478/representative-democracy
So Grand Forks, you’re back to being LA again?
How hysterical.
What next? whodat again? Or CommieAJC again?
Who, you swore up and down you never were. As though your “style’ is not unmistakable?
I’ll check back in (much?) later to see how just much venom and vitriol ensues from you two paragons of puerile immaturity…
LizBeth
August 30th, 2010
10:36 am
Dear Peter,
In a just society, laws are designed so that they grow economy, provide equitable justice for both the rich and poor, respect differences, promote peaceful resolutions, and grow people into citizens who are spiritual and thoughtful. We have a mission statement for this country that promotes this ideal. But because we respect differences, we also allow those who would be powerful before just, who would rather fight than settle, who antagonize, and who live out their egos and rage to have just as much say as anyone else in this country. And power is an attractive message. Of course, it attracts followers through well-positioned fearmongering, whether it be fear of violence, fear of theft, or fear of hell.
The latter, which allows laws to based upon power, fear, and egos, may be the message of Pharisees, but isn’t the message of Jesus.
mrs. w.
August 30th, 2010
10:39 am
Midtown: Shame on your mother. Abortion is not meant to be a form of birth control and that is what she used it for. It is people like her who give the pro-lifers their platform and rightly so in this instance.
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
10:45 am
Scammer, I bet that when you were in the Peace Corps, even you said the Pleadge of Allgeiance.
Remeber the part ….”and to the Republic, for which it stands…….”
Me getting a little testy?
I bested you the other day hands down, and your response was to refer to me “and my jerk-off friends…..”
Keep making it up, Scammer. It maked for good entertainment.
Why the Founders Created a Representative Republic
http://us-elections.suite101.com/article.cfm/is_the_united_states_a_democracy
Educate yourself. Public schools couldn’t.
AmVet
August 30th, 2010
11:15 am
Keep making it up, Scammer.
No More, you are utterly hopeless. You pretend to be completely incapable of reading and comprehending standard written English from a variety of credible sources.
Do you labor under the misconception that the other bloggers here, as well as the host, aren’t reading this embarrassing display of yours and are likely laughing at you?
And just how much proof is never enough for you?
How many prestigious and recognized sources must you irrationally ignore to hang onto your hyper-partisan demagoguery and rhetoric?
What would it *ever* take for you to realize you are simply incorrect?
I’ve provided five different sources that absolutely corroborate this widely known fact and NONE of them meet your “exacting” standards do they?
I could provide a dozen more and it still wouldn’t put a dent in that thick head of yours.
Do you even own a dictionary? Have you the foggiest idea of how to do basic research?
The Unites States of America is a representative democracy.
Are you moving your lips while you read this?
But the best news is that it is no skin off anybody’s nose here, including mine, that you remain proudly ignorant, totally specious and delusionally intransigent.
BTW, since you’re so hung up on my military service, which branch and when did you serve?
Support the Troops…
Peter
August 30th, 2010
11:24 am
Well LizBeth…that is an interesting statement but skirts the question…….
You are not mentioning any laws, you are just avoiding the topic of which laws get in the way of loving or caring.
LA
August 30th, 2010
11:31 am
“No More, when challenged and/or bested you become little more than a childish insulter.”
Pot meet kettle.
“Who, you swore up and down you never were. As though your “style’ is not unmistakable?”
Yeah, that’s because I wanted to irritate the snot out of you. IT WORKED! You were so worked up, your depends had to be changed on an hourly basis.
Like I used to say, go sell stupid somewhere else.
LA
August 30th, 2010
11:32 am
“I’ll check back in (much?) later to see how just much venom and vitriol ensues from you two paragons of puerile immaturity…”
Says the guy who calls other people names on Bookman’s blog. Keep on, BedWet.
LA
August 30th, 2010
11:33 am
“Do you labor under the misconception that the other bloggers here, as well as the host, aren’t reading this embarrassing display of yours and are likely laughing at you?”
BedWet, this ain’t Bookman’s fantasy blog here.
LA
August 30th, 2010
11:34 am
“The Unites States of America is a representative democracy.”
And where does it say that in the US Constitution or any other document, BedWet?
Then again, you’re a draft dodger.
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
12:08 pm
Scammer, you can go to CVS or Eckerds and get an over-the-counter remedy for that yeast infection.
There’s just no need to take it out on everybody else that reads your bilge.
No More Progressives!
August 30th, 2010
12:48 pm
BTW, since you’re so hung up on my military service, which branch and when did you serve?
I did not serve, Scammer. I’m an historian.
But then, I never implied that I did.