New ObamaCare talking points: Forget previous talking points
Some liberal groups are finally acknowledging the obvious: Hardly anyone believed their claims that ObamaCare would “bend the cost curve downward” and help balance the federal budget.
The public rejection of the claims may not be news, but the left’s acknowledgment of this defeat does qualify as a scoop — and Politico’s Ben Smith is the one who got it:
Key White House allies are dramatically shifting their attempts to defend health care legislation, abandoning claims that it will reduce costs and the deficit and instead stressing a promise to “improve it.”
The messaging shift was circulated this afternoon on a conference call and PowerPoint presentation organized by Families USA — one of the central groups in the push for the initial legislation. The call was led by a staffer for the Herndon Alliance, which includes leading labor groups and other health care allies. It was based on polling from three top Democratic pollsters, John Anzalone, Celinda Lake and Stan Greenberg
The confidential presentation, available in full here and provided to POLITICO by a source on the call, suggests that Democrats are acknowledging the failure of their predictions that the health care legislation would grow more popular after its passage, as its benefits became clear and rhetoric cooled. Instead, the presentation is designed to win over a skeptical public and to defend the legislation — and in particular the individual mandate — from a push for repeal.
The presentation concedes that groups typically supportive of Democratic causes — people under 40, non-college-educated women and Hispanic voters — have not been won over by the plan. Indeed, it stresses repeatedly, many are unaware that the legislation has passed, an astonishing shortcoming in the White House’s all-out communications effort.
“Straightforward ‘policy’ defenses fail to [move] voters’ opinions about the law,” reads one slide. “Women in particular are concerned that health care law will mean less provider availability — scarcity an issue.”
The presentation also concedes that the fiscal and economic arguments that were the White House’s first and most aggressive sales pitch have essentially failed.
“Many don’t believe health care reform will help the economy,” reads another slide.
The presentation’s final page of “Don’ts” counsels against claiming “the law will reduce costs and [the] deficit.”
So, what do the pollsters and advisers recommend? That Democrats and their fellow travelers focus instead on personal stories like greedy doctors who needlessly remove kids’ tonsils — er, I mean, greedy doctors who amputate diabetics’ feet instead of telling them to modify their diets — er, I mean, well, Smith reports the advice here:
“People can be moved from initial skepticism and support for repeal of the law to favorable feelings and resisting repeal,” it says. “Use personal stories — coupled with clear, simple descriptions of how the law benefits people at the individual level — to convey critical benefits of reform.”
And, finally, they recommend telling the public that the law may not be that great, but don’t worry — the great ObamaCare debate of 2009-10 was just a prelude to our efforts to truly fix health care:
“Keep claims small and credible; don’t overpromise or ’spin’ what the law delivers,” it says, suggesting supporters say, “The law is not perfect, but it does good things and helps many people. Now we’ll work to improve it.”
How about this for a tagline: “We had to pass the bill so that we could find out what needed fixing in it.”
(H/t: Hot Air)
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289 comments Add your comment
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
6:38 pm
Ooooh! Slide #17–is that the ghost of Rosemary Woods we hear…?
Seriously, though, and I am in support of free, universal, health care, the whole megillah was just one more show the devil in the details now coming home…
md
August 19th, 2010
6:46 pm
It was never about what was in the bill, it was about getting something – anything – on the books while they could cram it through.
Much easier to try to make Frankenstein look pretty than to start from scratch.
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
6:53 pm
I can’t wait to see how many new government agencies grow out of the “improvement” efforts to this pig.
md,
Way before the bill passed SNL had a skit showing Biden with a stack of paper saying something like, we don’t even care if all the pages are blank just as long as the cover said health care reform.
md
August 19th, 2010
6:54 pm
Here’s one they can use:
Ain’t it great that you make 90k a year and don’t qualify for subsidies, but don’t you worry, maybe you can convince your neighbor who makes 88k to share the boat he is going to buy with the subsidy money you are giving him.
md
August 19th, 2010
6:55 pm
RW,
And so many blind to the game……………
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
6:57 pm
It was never about what was in the bill, it was about getting something – anything – on the books while they could cram it through.
I would agree with that. I don’t think this bill pleased anybody but the insurance companies, as they will reap the benefits. “Everybody” will have to be covered now, so they can raise the rates on everybody but in reality, people who couldn’t afford coverage before, still won’t be able to afford it. Oh, they’ll have a program to pay for those at the bottom of the economic sector but there will be many who make too much to qualify but not enough to afford coverage. They’ll get caught in the squeeze like they always do. The real problem is health care costs and this does nothing to address that.
So my prediction (as it has been all along) is that nothing much will change and in the next year or two we’ll be reading about record insurance company profits. They played the system like a cheap violin, pretending they were against it, knowing all along how much they would benefit from it.
If Obama really believed in this, instead of handing it off to Pelosi and Reid, he should have submitted his own gill and taken to the bully pulpit to convince America, why his bill was the way to go. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too and wound up with a stale twinkie.
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
6:58 pm
*submitted his own bill
saywhat?
August 19th, 2010
6:59 pm
Its much easier to make Frankenstein look pretty (not to mention useful) if you at least have a Frankenstein to work with. “Starting from scratch” was how Frankenstein was created in the first place. Even Frankenstein is better than the 10 Draculas and 20 Wolfmen we had before.
I too would prefer a “Medicare for all” plan over what we have. It will be the next step, someday.
Don't forget
August 19th, 2010
6:59 pm
Republicans Block Bill to Aid Small BusinessBy DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
WASHINGTON — Senate Republicans on Thursday rejected a bill to aid small businesses with expanded loan programs and tax breaks, in a procedural blockade that underscored how fiercely determined the party’s leaders are to deny Democrats any further legislative accomplishments ahead of November’s midterm elections.
The measure, championed by Senator Mary L. Landrieu, Democrat of Louisiana, had the backing of some of the Republican Party’s most reliable business allies, including the United States Chamber of Commerce and the National Federation of Independent Business. Several Republican lawmakers also helped write it.
But Republican leaders filibustered after fighting for days with Democrats over the number of amendments they would be able to offer. A last-ditch offer by Democrats to allow three was refused by the Republican leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.
PATHETIC!
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
7:00 pm
Hillbilly D,
I bet if you could do an archeological analysis on this bill most of it predates either Reid or Pelosi
Real Scooter
August 19th, 2010
7:01 pm
Much easier to try to make Frankenstein look pretty than to start from scratch.
Good one md!
I hear ya RW!
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
7:02 pm
I liked it better as gill. A fish out of water kind of thing.
Claude
August 19th, 2010
7:03 pm
People who are unaware that the legislation passed would be the perfect target market. It’s a lot harder to persuade people who pay attention.
Southern Comfort
August 19th, 2010
7:04 pm
Did anybody really expect Congress to do something of substance?
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
7:06 pm
Real Scooter,
Paul the Thread Killer was complaining about people nicknamed Scooter the other day. I tried to remind him you couldn’t swing a dead keyboard around here without hitting one or two, but then he had my thread shut down.
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
7:06 pm
RW @ 7:00
Were I a gambling man, I’d bet on that. I wonder if Congress lets the lobbyists write the bills like the Legislature has been known to do in the past.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:09 pm
md
“Much easier to try to make Frankenstein look pretty than to start from scratch.”
I don’t care who you are, thass funny!
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
7:11 pm
I wonder if it would have taken me 18 minutes to read Slide 17?
(Obscure Rosemary Woods reference)
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
7:11 pm
SoCo,
It’s got plenty of substance. Much of it is like substance you scrape off your shoes, but substance nonetheless. There’s part of it that makes every business in the country file a 1099 for any company they did more than $600.00 worth of business in a year and because they claimed that the provision would net them x number of billions from tax cheating they can’t change it without coming up with this entirely made up number of dollars.
Real Scooter
August 19th, 2010
7:13 pm
RW,
Yeah,I know! I was there and posted my opinion but got moderated. WTF
Southern Comfort
August 19th, 2010
7:13 pm
RW
Maybe I should have specified good substance. We all know Congress is full of manure. I’ve learned to expect jack@ss level of work from jack@ss legislators.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:14 pm
hillbilly
@ 6:57
Well said (and with a bunch of good one-liners, you’re on a roll!). Just follow the money…
md
August 19th, 2010
7:14 pm
“I bet if you could do an archeological analysis on this bill most of it predates either Reid or Pelosi”
Can probably say the same for the stimulus bill. They cleaned out the desk drawers and blew off the dust of every rider never passed.
AmVet
August 19th, 2010
7:15 pm
This is what happens when the only voices allowed are those of the corporations who stand to profit no matter how the consumer gets screwed.
Baucus would allow NO alternative voices to be be present at those meetings. He ensured that Single Payer, for example, never even got a chance.
Throw in the Do Nothing GOP and voila, this is what we get.
A corruption protection racket…
md
August 19th, 2010
7:18 pm
“Even Frankenstein is better than the 10 Draculas and 20 Wolfmen we had before.”
From where I am sitting, they are all still monsters…………….
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:19 pm
Hillbilly
I bet it said, “and make sure you point out that we are not crooks…”
saywhat?
August 19th, 2010
7:19 pm
Amvet at 7:15- ding ding ding- we have a winner!
md
August 19th, 2010
7:22 pm
“This is what happens when the only voices allowed are those of the corporations who stand to profit no matter how the consumer gets screwed.”
I have an idea – let’s put it on cspan and post it for the public ahead of time so they can’t screw us…….wow, I just had a bout of deju vue.
Real Scooter
August 19th, 2010
7:25 pm
Dang! Everyone sure is agreeable this evening.
I kinda miss the fireworks!
Good eve all!!!
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
7:26 pm
let’s put it on cspan and post it for the public ahead of time
Now where have I heard that before?
And by the way, thanks to Kyle for euthanizing that horse downstairs.
AmVet
August 19th, 2010
7:27 pm
I forgot to mention that often the lobbyists for these corporations actually write much of the legislation that gets passed.
Convenient huh?
Welcome to the United States of America! A wholly owned subsidiary of the New York Stock Exchange.
CJ
August 19th, 2010
7:27 pm
“The confidential presentation, available in full here and provided to POLITICO by a source on the call, suggests that Democrats are acknowledging the failure of their predictions that the health care legislation would grow more popular after its passage,…”
No, the presentation doesn’t suggest anything of the sort.
The premise of this article (and Kyle’s post) is, not surprisingly, entirely false. If the folks as Politico (or Kyle) would do a little research, they’d find plenty of independent research showing that health care legislation has become more popular since its passage. The plurality of voters, if not the majority, don’t want to see it repealed, do want to give more of its benefits a chance to kick in, and do want to build on it. (As evidence, observe that Republican politicians are running on hating minorities again and are no longer running on repealing the Affordable Care Act.)
It should also be pointed out, that despite Kyle’s spin, there’s nothing in this presentation that says the the Affordable Care Act “may not be great”, “needed fixing”, or anything to that effect. It does claim that the legislation isn’t perfect, but seeking to build on good legislation isn’t the same as fixing bad legislation.
In addition, with regard to focus group testing, Kyle likes to pretend that Newt Gingrich’s word list never existed (Gingrich still refers to it often), that GOP pollster and messaging coordinator Frank “call it a bailout” Luntz was never born, and that Republicans don’t do focus group testing (in truth, that’s about the only thing they do). Unfortunately for him, pretending doesn’t make it so.
I suggest that readers actually click on the link and view the slide show. It’s actually relatively benign and, for those who aren’t familiar with the legislation, informative.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:27 pm
Let’s see…the monster was the creation of Dr. Frankenstein who was based on Rabbi Judah Loew ben Bezalel and his golem which was based on Psalm 139…oh, no! Obama is not a closet Muslim…he’s a closet Jew!
Real Scooter
August 19th, 2010
7:32 pm
Welcome to the United States of America! A wholly owned subsidiary of the New York Stock Exchange.
You are going to be awarded a medal for that one AmVet!
md
August 19th, 2010
7:32 pm
“Obama is not a closet Muslim…he’s a closet Jew!”
Well…..he does have a substantial bank account…………
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
7:34 pm
If the horse has been euthanized can we start flogging it?
It’s all a Zionist conspiracy anyway dontchaknow
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:36 pm
md
And he’s a lawyer!
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
7:37 pm
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor…Def-Jam edition
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:39 pm
Dern Kyle, you’ve been handed the Kookman clowns who’ve taken up residence on your blog.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:40 pm
RW
@ 7:34
A wiley lot, them Jews…
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:40 pm
“This is what happens when the only voices allowed are those of the corporations who stand to profit no matter how the consumer gets screwed.”
Spoken like a true commie bed wetter.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:41 pm
“Seriously, though, and I am in support of free, universal, health care, the whole megillah was just one more show the devil in the details now coming home…”
Dumber words have never been spoken.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:41 pm
GF
“Isn’t it rich? Aren’t we a pair…?”
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:42 pm
“Republicans Block Bill to Aid Small Business”
Uh huh. See you in November, ma’am.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:42 pm
““Isn’t it rich? Aren’t we a pair…?””
Pair of what?
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:42 pm
GF
What can I say? I get that dumber words from you all the time…I must be really good to be able to top even myself on so regular a basis!
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:43 pm
GF
Clowns, Bozo…
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:43 pm
“Welcome to the United States of America! A wholly owned subsidiary of the New York Stock Exchange.’
Sell your Infiniti, ma’am. You always rant about evil corporations yet you drive high end cars. Retard much?
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:44 pm
“Clowns, Bozo…”
Yes, Obama is a clown. Thanks for clarifying.
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
7:45 pm
I must be really good to be able to top even myself on so regular a basis!
You’re not satisfied where you are and keep striving for new heights. A good trait.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:45 pm
“I get that dumber words from you all the time…I must be really good to be able to top even myself on so regular a basis!”
Huh? You’ve only been posting on Kyle’s blog for what, two days? I hope Kookman makes it back from whitewater rafting in one piece so he can copy and paste more lame op-ed pieces about how stupid Palin is.
You left wing retards are about as predictable as Jimmy Carter calling Jews, evil.
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
7:47 pm
And for those scoring at hone, I’ve been coming to Kyle’s blog since it opened and I go to Wooten’s occasionally. CT’s is the one I won’t go to.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:47 pm
Hillbilly
“To dream the impossible dream…this is my quest…!”
G-d I love musicals!
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:48 pm
“CT’s is the one I won’t go to.”
Yeah, sewage drains have more integrity than that woman.
Real Scooter
August 19th, 2010
7:48 pm
Thanks for the fireworks Grand Forks!
Are we having fun yet? yeehaw
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
7:49 pm
This thing was boiled down nicely in the comments over at Hot Air.
Update: From the comments: “So, their big argument for why they should be re-elelected is that they promise to fix the horrible legislation they lied to us about and passed over the public’s very vocal objections. Good luck with that.”
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:49 pm
“Thanks for the fireworks Grand Forks! ‘
I’m saving the M-1000’s for when ScamVet finally explodes all over the keyboard.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:50 pm
GF
Oh, they say that loco weed leads to short term memory loss…back before Jay’s Alhambra Decree on you…
Hillbilly
Don’t care much for CT myself…mean spirited and small minded, she…
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:51 pm
“Oh, they say that loco weed leads to short term memory loss…back before Jay’s Alhambra Decree on you”
Guess that sucks for you then, ma’am. Tell unmentionable, hi.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:51 pm
Scooter
More fun than a barrel of monkeys…
md
August 19th, 2010
7:52 pm
“CT’s is the one I won’t go to.”
That is one I also refuse to validate……..
md
August 19th, 2010
7:53 pm
“Update: From the comments: “So, their big argument for why they should be re-elelected is that they promise to fix the horrible legislation they lied to us about and passed over the public’s very vocal objections. Good luck with that.””
Gotta love it – the only job in the world where one gets to screw it all up and then campaign to fix it……
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:54 pm
GF
That ma’am thingie really tickles me…like I’m supposed to be insulted? Not a’tall, mon ami…and Unmentionable says to tell you hi back and thanks for taking me off his hands so he can get a minute’s peace…
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
7:56 pm
md
“… the only job in the world where one gets to screw it all up and then campaign to fix it……”
You ARE on a roll tonight! Good one…what’s in your glass?
md
August 19th, 2010
7:57 pm
“You ARE on a roll tonight! Good one…what’s in your glass?”
Iced water mixed with reality…….
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
7:58 pm
“That ma’am thingie really tickles me…like I’m supposed to be insulted? ”
Not meant to insult you. Remember, you’re “happy.”
md
August 19th, 2010
7:58 pm
Jo – and then vote themselves a raise………….man oh man have I missed the boat.
CJ
August 19th, 2010
8:00 pm
Frank Luntz informing conservatives on how to kill health care reform: “You’ll notice we recommend the phrase ‘government takeover’ rather than ‘government run’ or ‘government controlled’.”
Frank Luntz informing conservatives on how to kill financial reform: “Words to Use – ‘fine print’, ‘big bank bailout bill’, ‘hard working taxpayers’”
These confidential memos suggest that Republicans are acknowledging the failure of their positions regarding health care reform and financial reform legislation.
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
8:02 pm
and then vote themselves a raise
Doesn’t Congress have it set up now, to get an automatic annual raise, without even voting on it?
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
8:02 pm
md
Don’t drink water…as WC said, “fish f in it!” Reality, though? It’s not all it appears to be…
barking frog
August 19th, 2010
8:03 pm
This legislation will stay in place but with a single
payer option that will be traded for the mandated
participation, at least as pertains to businesses.
Insurance companies want single payer to
dump unwanted business. Companies don’t
want to be forced to provide coverage.
Healthcare providers will get the balance of
the proceeds. Who is going to get rid of it?
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
8:04 pm
GF
As Unmentionable says, “Gay? I’m not even mildly amused…”
Honu
August 19th, 2010
8:10 pm
Josef — I truly don’t see that with Cynthia Tucker. Have you read any of the screeds over there? If her picture was not at the top of her column, there would be a kinder, gentler tone to the conversations. She’s simply attacked for having a viewpoint while being black, no matter the topic. I’m surprised; you’re normally more tolerant. . .
barking frog
August 19th, 2010
8:11 pm
That 1099 for purchases over 600.00 has been in
the irs code for years, its just practically
unenforceable except for large amounts.
TGT
August 19th, 2010
8:16 pm
Latest Rasmussen poll is 60% oppose 36% favor Obamacare. Here:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
8:16 pm
Honu
I will have to disagree with you on Sister Cynthia…she sets out to offend anyone who doesn’t agree with her…I don’t like her very much and she long ago offended me to the max on her defense of the word “gypsy” as acceptable so long as it was spelled with a lower case “g…” Now, I WILL agree with you that way too many of her attackers are doing so because of her shade of skin and I find that, itself, reason enough not to go over there…I would wind up having to come to the defense of someone who has already said it was okay to use the equivalent of the “n” word of my little Romany Princess grandbaby…
Real Scooter
August 19th, 2010
8:18 pm
More fun than a barrel of monkeys
I’ll say! I bought my very first computer last Sunday and now I can visit with y’all any time I want too. Life is good!
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
8:23 pm
Scooter
And the good part is that you can be dealing on the other screen with the most mind numbing work reports or the most depressing of research topics and flip over here and get a nice little break…G-d I love modern technolgy—even if, as my own kids say, I did have to be dragged kicking and screaming from my garret with a quill and parchment!
Real Scooter
August 19th, 2010
8:32 pm
Dang josef,it has taken me 4 days to get one screen up and runnin, forget 2. Whew! I never thought I would be one of george Jones’ “hightech rednecks”. ( kinda)
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
8:33 pm
KOOKMAN, PLEASE COME BACK AND RECLAIM YOUR CULT FOLLOWERS!!!!!!!!!!!
Honu
August 19th, 2010
8:34 pm
That’s fair enough, Josef — I was not aware of the Gypsy reference. About 7 or 8 years ago (before I knew about this blogging thingy,) I emailed Cynthia commending her on a women’s rights issue that she had championed. I received a very heartfelt and timely reply from her. That impressed me because I really didn’t expect it; but also, because she was so respectful. So I’ve been a fan ever since — not a blindly agreeing-with-everything-she-posts fan, mind you, but just someone who enjoys many different points of view. Even Kyle’s
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
8:47 pm
Honu
Sister Cynthia DID impress me when she took my phone calls in reference to the Romany issue…she lost me when she set out to defend first, many, many moons ago the scurrilous and clasically racist column by Colin Campbell on the funeral of a Roma notable (I still use it in my cultural sensitivity workshops) and later when she defended the use of the term as “okay” when spelled with a lower case “g” and referring to such things as “gypsy” cabs…the AJC has since corrected its error and no longer uses the term, but it took DECADES to get them to see the point…there was a similar situation in reference to the AJC “challenge” of awarding minority contracts to “blonde, blue-eyed” Cherokee…something that was of significance in this household where we have a red-haired one who would not pass the AJC’s editorial Strassbourg test of racial purity…
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
8:56 pm
Scooter
Once you get the hang of it, you can post on several blogs without going through all the changes…man, I tell ya, that multiple scree thingie was invented for us schizophrenics! (all right, purists, I know it’s multiple personalities, but schizo has such a nice “ring” to it!)
Real Scooter
August 19th, 2010
9:00 pm
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
8:33 pm
Come on now GF,I know you like to bebate with the libs no matter what blog they are on!
Real Scooter
August 19th, 2010
9:05 pm
Dang josef,being a hightech redneck is hard enough,let alone being a schitzo technogeek! lol
Mr-B
August 19th, 2010
9:09 pm
Joseph: I, too, am surprised by you antipathy to CT. As a frequent observer and infrequent poster to the AJC blogs, I have watched Cynthia repeatedly being accused of racism when there was no mention of race in her thread post. I’m resonably sure CT meant no offense by her unfortunate reference to the Romany.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
9:11 pm
Real Scooter…
If it weren’t for us, GF wouldn’t have anybody to talk about!
Schitzo technogeek? My kids also say that I don’t particularly think that Gutenberg was such a good idea! Sadly, they’re point on!
Oh, before I forget, glad to see you got that smilie thingie down! Good show…move to the front of the class…
Mr-B
August 19th, 2010
9:13 pm
@ joseph and scooter: how DO you make that work, anyway?
Honu
August 19th, 2010
9:13 pm
Josef — I’m thinking if more folks would approach her with that kind of respect, she would probably have no problem addressing their issues. But when almost every post starts off with “you’re an idiot, moron, race baiter,” etc., it’s no wonder her answers are few and far between. Perhaps you were able to teach her something she was not even aware of. (Sorry about ending that with a preposition.) And as Lou would say, “she’s got spunk!!!” You may not even realize it, but you two are a lot alike — attacked only for who you are. I would think that in itself would form some sort of bond?
Nice chatting with you, Josef — keep up the good work with your students. They must love you! My big sistah is a teacher, too — truly God’s work.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
9:13 pm
Mr. B—
No, she meant no “offense” but she didn’t accept correction either…and it wasn’t “an” unfortunate reference…it continued repeatedly…
Mr-B
August 19th, 2010
9:17 pm
@hono: a (possibly apochrical) quote from Churchill on ending a sentence with a prepposition: ” That, sir, is the sort of pedantry with which I shall not up put!”
Mr-B
August 19th, 2010
9:18 pm
Enter your comments here
@ josef: That was before my time. My apologies for the “PH” instead of “F”
Mr-B
August 19th, 2010
9:20 pm
“Apochrical” = Aprocphical. Damn vodka martinis to hill!
retiredds
August 19th, 2010
9:24 pm
Yea, this kind of reminds me of the time when the argument was put forth by the Bushies that the war in Iraq would pay for itself …. almost a Trillion $$$$ later we are still paying for it (but finally getting out of that rat hole). Also like that Medicare prescription drug program, only supposed to cost $144 billion …. one half Trillion $$$$ later we’re still paying for it. Also reminds me about how those Bush tax cuts were eventually going to trickle down and the deficit would be cut in half. 5 Trillion $$$$ later (On top of the $5 Trillion deficit already accumulated)and still paying for it.
I don’t think Obama and the Dems have the corner on bending the “truth”. Seems like there are no innocent bystanders be they either Republican or Democrat. So, Kyle, your side is no better than the other side when it comes to “bending the truth” (lies maybe). It just comes down to whose lies do we want to believe.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
9:26 pm
Mr B…
Just internet homepage it, put in what you’re doing on that page and go back to the original. If it’s word processing, just do the internet thingie without closing out the processing page…flip back and forth…
Honu
I agree with you entirely on the attack mode…my reason for not being the biggest fan of CT’s is that it took so long to get her to see the point which, in my opinion, should have been obvious spot on…I say she’s limited in that she sees this through a “black-white” prism and doesn’t readily grasp that it doesn’t matter the “group” we ALL have to be aware of our own falling into the same trap, even when we have no personal connection to or experience with “those people” whoever “those people” are.
And, yes, it is that “common bond” where I come to disagreement with her…if you can see it in your own case, why can you not see it in others?
And thanks for the positive thoughts about teachers…as I say (outside the pc fora!). teaching is like medicine, the ministry and other “public service” so-called professions…it’s a “calling” and you either have it or you don’t…
@@
August 19th, 2010
9:28 pm
It was all about making history! It was never about making insurance affordable.
Somebody needs to tell this administration that the American people (some anyway) are neither guinea pigs or pavlovian dogs.
We (some anyway) don’t drool when stimulated.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
9:31 pm
Mr B
Cabernet myself! I’m one of those “tolerant” teachers myself…far more interested in what’s being put forth than I am the grammar, syntax and spelling…not in the final draft…!
buck@gon
August 19th, 2010
9:38 pm
Well titled headline, Kyle!
In general: New Democrat talking points: Nothing to see here in foreign or domestic policy folks; boy, aren’t those tea party-republicans-conservatives intolerant!
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
9:41 pm
Honu & josef,
I’ve got no particular beef with CT, but I went looking for stragglers when Paul got our thread shut down and that place is an insane asylum missing its Nurse Ratched.
buck@gon
August 19th, 2010
9:43 pm
That “THEY” are promising to improve it is hilarious! These guys live in a childlike world of magical “do-overs” and “mulligans”. The great irony of all this is kook central in the Congress, hosted by Nancy Pelosi, who said (and I paraphrase): we’ll know what’s in the bill AFTER we pass it.
Now that we’re finding out, the Dems are promising to “change it.” History shows that they won’t read that bill before they pass it either!
What’s amazing is the complicit cover that the majority of the press supplies to the Democrats amidst their obvious bumbling, abrasive politics and awful fecklessness. Every day, the President looks more and more like the boob he is. Thanks for being one of a couple of lights at the ajc!
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
9:44 pm
And a top ‘o the old Braves cap to the Giants for finally beating Phillie.
@@
August 19th, 2010
9:46 pm
an insane asylum missing its Nurse Ratched.
I heard THAT! I used to go over there to read Ragnar Danneskjold (really good at what he did). He’s gone so no point anymore.
Totally off topic, but I watched two squirrels scurry across my deck today…each had a whole tomato in their mouth. You’d think they could share.
BEASTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
9:46 pm
Well that typ ‘o should be tip ‘o not top ‘o but the comment is on top anyway. What a topsy-turvy place for the page to change too.
Drifter
August 19th, 2010
9:47 pm
LIsten, I’ve voted for Republicans most of my adult life, but Obamacare is the result of GOP failures. If the Republicans I helped elect had done their jobs correctly, had walked the talk when they had the power, they wouldn’t have gotten the boot in 2008. But they didn’t. They grew government just like the Democrats. They got us in two wars and had no intention of ending either of them. They trampled the Constitution in favor of some perceived security. And as for health care, they ignored it.
You can gripe about what the Democrats have done with Obamacare all you want, but at least they’re looking at the problem. We pay 50% more in health care costs (as a product of GDP) than the countries with the best health care in the world and we get much poorer results. We deserve better than that.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
9:48 pm
RW
That’s the ticket! We might ought to quit calling him Bruin and start calling him Nurse Ratched! Have to give him credit, he certainly knows our personalities…now, Kyle? He’s just TOO nice sometimes…I have, though, been grateful for his generous welcome of us bunch of misfits…
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
9:50 pm
On prepositions and baseball players:
A while back Bob Costas was interviewing some former umpires on MLB Network. I can’t remember his name but one umpire told of this humorous conversation between himself, as home plate umpire, and Lou Pinella as batter. (From memory, may not be word for word)
Umpire: Strike
Lou: What?
Umpire: It was a strike
Lou: No, it wasn’t
Umpire: Well it looked like a strike to me.
Lou: So, if it was a strike, where was the pitch at?
Umpire: Lou, you know you aren’t supposed to end a sentence with a preposition.
(Lou looks puzzled steps into batter’s box)
Lou: Time out?
Umpire: Time
(Lou steps out of batters box)
Lou: So where was the pitch at, a$$hole?
@@
August 19th, 2010
9:53 pm
Every day, the President looks more and more like the boob he is.
I heard…well read THAT too!
I kept telling myself he’d get better. He didn’t.
I want to have compassion for the dilemma he finds himself in, but DANGIT!!!!!!!! he’s a grown man, and the press has allowed him to remain Mama’s boy (no racial slur intended).
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
9:54 pm
@@
Strange year with the squirrels…they actually left the peaches alone this year and we had a bumper crop of tree-ripened ones…they left the tomatoes alone, too, but they just kept digging up and throwing out the impatiens in the window boxes to bury their whatever it was they were burying…but I could sit and watch the little b*ggers for hours…even if Unmentionable does keep threatening them with the stew pot for raiding the bird feeder…
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
9:55 pm
Kyle? He’s just TOO nice sometimes
That he is. I actually had to ask him to call me Hillbilly instead of Mr.Deluxe. I appreciated the respect but it sounded too uppity to apply to me. Oops, there I go using the “U” word again.
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
9:56 pm
they actually left the peaches alone this year
Probably because they’d grown tired of peaches, after they ate all mine.
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
9:57 pm
They got us in two wars and had no intention of ending either of them
Drifter,
Our combat troops are out of Iraq because Obama left the Bush plan and schedule in place. He really ought to thank President Bush, but somehow I don’t see him doing that.
AmVet
August 19th, 2010
9:59 pm
RW and HD, did you see where Clemens was indicted for perjury?
Jeez, what a mess.
Hillbilly, I haven’t followed the Cubbies but was curious if Sweet Lou has had any meltdowns this year.
Just watched a great special about Dawson’s induction into Cooperstown on ESPN. And man did the memories start flooding back in from my visit there. One of the most special places a baseball fan could ever hope to see.
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
9:59 pm
We might ought to quit calling him Bruin
josef,
Who’s this we?
Honu
August 19th, 2010
10:00 pm
Hi RW — I could not have described her blog better!!!
Josef — if I didn’t make myself clear earlier, I totally understand your viewpoint. And yes, teaching is definitely a calling. My sistah and I get along famously — except for the fact she’s a staunch conservative and well. . .I’m not. I think I hear her mumbling the word idiot. . .
@@
August 19th, 2010
10:01 pm
josef:
but I could sit and watch the little b*ggers for hours
Would you sit still and watch ‘em steal your tomatoes? Each time I go to pick, I throw 2 or 3 outside the garden. Do the BEASTS appreciate my generosity? Heck no!!!
Little thieves!!!
AmVet
August 19th, 2010
10:01 pm
Uppity Hillbillies! Well, I do declare!
josef, it was only after I had been back in this country for sometime that I learned they were called Impatiens. I only knew them as Busy Lizzies!
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
10:01 pm
Amvet,
I think Lou said a few weeks ago he had done all he could with that bunch and was gonna be gone at the end of the year. Seems to me like he should have gone as soon as he said that, but maybe he isn’t really leaving.
@@
August 19th, 2010
10:03 pm
Uh Oh! I just remembered…Honu didn’t like Ragner a/k/a jbmlaw.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
10:05 pm
Hillbilly
Uppity people of the world unite!
Sorry about the peaches…we had fresh fried peach pies, peach cobbler, some in the freezer and plenty left over for the neighborhood kids to come by and munch on…it WAS really special…
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
10:12 pm
@@
You and Unmentionable should get together! He’s got a BB gun for ‘em!
Honu
Not to worry…and as for your sistah, and there are still those who think all teachers are liberals! Probably one of the most “conservative” professions out there! Just tune in to the teachers’ lounge…whoo, whee! I sometimes feel like I’m all alone…
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
10:14 pm
AmVet…
That’s what Granny called them! Haven’t heard it in years…thanks for the pleasant memory…
Rodney S.
August 19th, 2010
10:15 pm
I ain’t got time to read all these stinking comments! I gotta get back to this reality TV show, eat this processed fast food and wait for my government check in the mail. Reading, thinking and words are for losers!
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
10:19 pm
The blogging, baseball, and crop combination just gave me a strange thought. Maybe we all died in that tragic explosion over at Jay B’s and we’re just ghost bloggers transmitting from the edges of Kyle’s cornfield.
Instead of Kookman’s clowns GF will just have to call us the Ghost Bloggers from now on.
Dusty
August 19th, 2010
10:23 pm
Well, the Braves lost today. It is low tide here.
As to Bookman, I am amazed at the abject devotion by some of his followers. Of course he does throw out fresh meat several times a day and speaks a few words of wisdom to the recalcitrants. But it has been a refreshing time without the crazy morning crew here. I bet they are turning blue holding their breath waiting for Bookman’s approach.
But at last, Kyle has gotten hot around the collar on his last two subjects. That’s good. Now there is life here to attack and defend. That thoughtful discussion gets duller than dishwater.
As to squirrels, a pox on all of them. I have a fox aquirrel who marches into my boxy birdfeeder and kicks the bottom out!! I probably have the only birdfeeder in town held together with package tape. Didn’t have duct tape. The doves like the ground spread. They are so regal with their little ground strut..
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
10:24 pm
RW
Ghost bloggers in the sky? Hmmm, there’s the makings of a song there…
AmVet
August 19th, 2010
10:24 pm
Rodney, LOL!
RW, poor Lou and the North Siders.
I hope I live long enough, that one day I can see them win it all. But damn, I’m running out of time!
And Andy’s beloved Pale Hose are looking kinda weak down the stretch too…
If he builds it, we will come…
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
10:27 pm
Andy’s Pale Hose are taking out some frustrations on the Twins tonight.
You know who should’ve been indicted? Mark McGuire should have been just for going to the hearings and telling them he wasn’t there to talk about the past. I’d of had him held in contempt right then and there.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
10:29 pm
Dusty
Hey! Glad to see you even if it is getting time for me to go…but are you SURE you and Unmentionable aren’t, uh, communicating? He has this thing about the doves, too. Squab, I say… them and pigeons…flying rats!
Dusty
August 19th, 2010
10:29 pm
Josef,
Do you think Perdue’s new “investigator” in the almighty test reports will do any good? Supt. Hall has assured everyone that SHE is NOT resigning. OH well. Will Atlanta ever stop its cycle of broken ethics?
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 19th, 2010
10:32 pm
AmVet & RW
Lou hasn’t really had any meltdowns in the last couple years; he’s mellowed I guess. Lou’s contract is up at the end of this year so it’s no surprise that he’s announced his retirement. The last 3 or 4 years, Ryne Sandberg, has been working his way up through the Cubs farm system as a Manager. He’s at AAA Iowa this year and the odds on favorite to get the job in Chicago next year. He’s done pretty well and I think it speaks well of a Hall of Famer, that he was willing to go back to the Minors and ride the buses, rather than just step into a Big League job.
Tyrelle Harris, who was part of the D Lee trade yesterday, pitched 2 scoreless innings tonight in his debut with the AA Tennessee Smokies.
Uppity people of the world unite!
A pet peeve of mine is that I can think of at least 3 terms that Southerners use, that non-Southerners don’t really understand the meaning of. They are “uppity”, “white trash” and “good ol’ boy”.
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
10:32 pm
And while I’m on baseball, do the Phreaking Phillies EVER go on the road?
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
10:34 pm
Dusty
Being of the discretion is the greater part of valor school of thought, I have to be careful of what i say here since I do use my own name and have paid the price before for exercising my first amendment rights, my opinion is that nothing much will change…some underlings will be sacrificed and the buck will stop there…
Dusty
August 19th, 2010
10:39 pm
Josef,
Unmentionable knows a fine bird when he sees one. Those chesty little smoothies are the elite. Luv the dove!!
As to “squabs”, my great Aunt Kate liked to raise pigeons so she could have squab pie. At my tender age of the time, I thought that was next to murder. Fortunately, I never had to face squab pie. Now Aunt Kate’s coconut cake ,that was different!!!
@@
August 19th, 2010
10:41 pm
According to Stratfor, this guy has returned to Iraq with Iran’s blessing and protection.
The Face of Iraq’s Brutality
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
10:44 pm
Hillbilly
Those three terms are three of mine, too. The idea that uppity is racist is hilarious to me! I take great pride in being called an uppity whatever the label…outlanders just don’t “get it..” nor do they understand that “white trash” has nothing to do with socio-economic status, but everything to do with “self made.” And “good ole boy (girl)”? The best I’ve ever seen on that is Florence King in “Southern Ladies and Gentlemen…” It’s a COMPLIMENT for G-d’s sake…and I love jer section on “The Good ole boy who’s not…”
Bruno
August 19th, 2010
10:44 pm
AmVet–Personal question for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LukEq643Mk&feature=search
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
10:47 pm
Dusty
Coconut cake! Ambrosia! Unmentionable claims, and I find no reason to argue, that you have to be at least 80 years old to make a proper one…He’s getting there, though! Makes you look forward to a funeral!
Dusty
August 19th, 2010
10:49 pm
Yes, Josef, I should not have asked you about school matters here. That news is certainly making the rounds of TV shows. Even Perdue was not smiling. Maybe Arne Duncan will come down and put everything in place.! We could have schools like Chicago!!!
RW, shhhhh don’t mention the Phillies. I feel them sneaking up on the Braves. Just my woman’s intuition I suppose.
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
10:52 pm
Dusty,
The Phillies lost today too and as long as the Braves stay pretty much up with them they’ll be in good shape for the wild card even if the Phillies eventually pass them.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
10:55 pm
OY! Look at the time! Enjoyed the time here with the rest of the misfits. Thanks again to Kyle…hopefully tomorrow night we’ll have our travelling music with Jaybird…
G’night, all….
Bruno
August 19th, 2010
10:55 pm
One more from Jewel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqCTXNMYv2I&feature=related
Dusty
August 19th, 2010
10:59 pm
Josef,
Aunt Kate not only made great cakes, she “canned” a whole pantry full of everything that was edible. She made something callled “acid” which was a very sharp fruit drink, non alcoholic of course. She was Baptist. What a lady! Lived through hard times without complaining and then ended up with only one arm. Yes, doctors removed it and the big lump with it. . She went right back into her garden with her hoe and kept right on working. They don’t make ‘em like Aunt Kate anymore. She had the real “true grit”..
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
10:59 pm
hopefully tomorrow night we’ll have our travelling music with Jaybird…
If not we could always open several of the caves over there and designate the music genre for each. We just can’t announce which is which so we can test the natural order theory.
Dusty
August 19th, 2010
11:01 pm
RW,
Keep your fingers crossed. Go Braves!!!
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
11:03 pm
Dusty,
They have a pretty good track record when bringing in a new first baseman late in the season. Hopefully no stadium boxes will burn up this time though.
@@
August 19th, 2010
11:05 pm
It’s not my intention to put a damper on things here, but this had better work considering that Iran is fixing to cross the threshold.
Turkey has initiated the idea of a conference in Damascus at the end of Ramadan that would aim to solve the Iraqi government crisis at the request of Iraqi elements, Al-Sharq Al-Awsat reported Aug. 18, citing Iraqi sources in Damascus. The conference would seek to reduce Iranian and U.S. influence in Iraq.
Don't forget
August 19th, 2010
11:06 pm
“That thoughtful discussion gets duller than dishwater.”
Hmm, that’s not the only thing, lol.
@@
August 19th, 2010
11:10 pm
No offense, but it’s kinda rude to hang out here and talk about how eager everyone is to return to jay’s. To borrow from Andy…
just sayin’
@@
August 19th, 2010
11:13 pm
Personally, I’ve always found Kyle’s columns far more thought provoking. A bit more balanced too.
jay’s become way to predictable.
Don't forget
August 19th, 2010
11:17 pm
Now, here’s what Sarah Palin said about Rahm Emanuel’s use of the word “retarded”
“I would ask the president to show decency in this process by eliminating one member of that inner circle, Mr. Rahm Emanuel, and not allow Rahm’s continued indecent tactics to cloud efforts. Just as we’d be appalled if any public figure of Rahm’s stature ever used the “N-word” or other such inappropriate language”
So now she’s telling Dr. Laura to “reload” after using the N word 11 times on the air. Hmmmm, sounds kind of hypocritical don’t you think?
@@
August 19th, 2010
11:24 pm
DF:
I like Sarah Palin, but I don’t hang on her every word, and I don’t know who Dr. Laura is.
Is there some reason I should?
RW-(the original)
August 19th, 2010
11:26 pm
@@,
It really isn’t about Kyle or Jay B. It’s more about the community that developes and the customs that begin on each one. The Morning Magpies at Jay B’s have made that place unbearable during the day, but Blindingly Obvious pretty much does that here too albeit in shorter bursts.
Several of “we the homeless” that don’t do a lot of blog hopping have thanked Kyle for the space and/or complimented him on the style of this blog. As far as I’ve seen he hasn’t acknowledged any of us so the impression I get is that he’d just as soon see us gone too.
Dusty
August 19th, 2010
11:40 pm
Don’t forget,
I see you did not forget. Now you’ve brought up Sarah Palin for no reason whatsoever. What’s next? Bush & Cheney? How about something on Obama while you ‘re at it…healthcare? debt? You know…
@@,
I don’t think Kyle is too worried about Bookman’s blog. Sometimes you can jump over 100 posts there and not miss anything. Even the music Friday seemed to be wearing a little thin. Liberals love Bookman’s selective lines and undercover style. I’m glad they enjoy it 24/7. At least that might keep them busy and out of trouble.
Getting late. Good night….
md
August 19th, 2010
11:51 pm
“It really isn’t about Kyle or Jay B.”
My take – the guy/gal at the top is no different than the rest of us except they always get their post in first. As we all know, the topic is the suggestion and everybody kind of goes where they want to go from there……….
@@
August 19th, 2010
11:52 pm
RW:
As far as I’ve seen he hasn’t acknowledged any of us so the impression I get is that he’d just as soon see us gone too.
I don’t know about that. Maybe with all the talk about jay’s he just didn’t wanna impose.
I’ve never understood why conservatives wouldn’t spend more time supporting a conservative columnist. Who knows, maybe it would encourage the AJC to re-examine their readership.
I just dropped in over at Cynthia’s for a looksee. With the exception of a few comments, the entire last page was devoted to cornbread.
And about the Blindingly Obvious. Where else can he go? jay banned him. Who follows him over here to antagonize?
jay’s left-wingers. They can’t resist the guy. It’s not like he gets any help from conservatives over here.
@@
August 19th, 2010
11:57 pm
Oh, and according to AmVet, he, Paul, Kamchak and josef are the only ones who can set everyone straight at Cynthia’s. According to AmVet, Kamchak is a sage.
I guess it’s because Kam is always seeing squirrels, spelling words backwards, and point to signs.
Gee! If only I’d known.
@@
August 19th, 2010
11:57 pm
I’m out.
electrician
August 20th, 2010
12:01 am
“the topic is the suggestion and everybody kind of goes where they want to go from there” proven by 2400+ post on jays blog when he’s not even here.
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
12:01 am
I don’t know about that. Maybe with all the talk about jay’s he just didn’t wanna impose
@@,
Or should I call you Lil Sis? There have been dozens of overtures that said nothing about Jay B that have been ignored. Maybe Kyle just isn’t the interactive type and I can respect that, but then I keep reading about how he does interact so if what I read is correct he doesn’t want to interact with “us people.” And you well know this is a frisking but I digress.
I’ve popped around the sites a bit and from the ones I’ve seen Mark Bradley is one of the few that gets what the new media dynamic is going to require. I’m afraid that from what I’ve seen Kyle is just as much a dinosaur as Jay B thinking that old media norms will return, but I agree that he’s far more thought-provoking.
Uncle Billy
August 20th, 2010
7:16 am
Kyle is able to take any source to smear Obama. This was not an official government site but a group who wants to move further in reforming the health care system, as I do. Kyle regularly avoids the discussion of an issue in favor of discussions of the process. He does not understand the issue well enough to discuss the merits so he becomes a flak for the right wing. In journalism you do not learn dealing with heavy issue analysis. You learn flakkery.
It is a sorry spetacle. Only the very best journalists bother with deep thinking. The AJC does not have the best journalists.
Get Real
August 20th, 2010
7:27 am
It was never about Healthcare! It was all about socialized medicine and turning America more in the socialist direction that Obozo wants to take us to. Obozo and the Progressives want more Government control over our lives.
@@
August 20th, 2010
8:00 am
RW:
Understood, I think.
Kyle pretty much stays on topic. Any interactions are on the topic. He’s not much for chatting.
@@
August 20th, 2010
8:01 am
Oh, and I have to wonder if Tucker or Bookman will be linking to the Ben Smith piece.
Jason T
August 20th, 2010
8:13 am
@josef
“Seriously, though, and I am in support of free, universal, health care,…”
Please, define “free”.
AmVet
August 20th, 2010
8:27 am
Oh, and according to AmVet, he, Paul, Kamchak and josef are the only ones who can set everyone straight at Cynthia’s.
Yet another sorry attempt to intentionally misspeak for others.
Bruno, thanks for the tunes. Good stuff. Yesterday eve was an early one for me. Sorry about not hanging for a little while.Two straight days that began very early.
And even if the Bruin isn’t back by tonight, we’ll find some other refuge, I’m sure. I kinda like RW’s idea about a social/musical experiment spanning threads. But, sometimes it’s hard enough to keep up with just one…
RW and HD, good baseball stuff last night. With pennant races cranking up in earnest, this is the time that baseball fans really start watching the box scores closely.
@@
August 20th, 2010
8:28 am
I just went to Mark Bradley’s site. It “looks like” he’s a Catholic priest who writes about sports.
Don't forget
August 20th, 2010
8:29 am
Dusty
August 19th, 2010
11:40 pm
Don’t forget,
I see you did not forget. Now you’ve brought up Sarah Palin for no reason whatsoever. What’s next? Bush & Cheney? How about something on Obama while you ‘re at it…healthcare? debt? You know…
——————————————————————————————————————
LOL, yeah everybody stays on the subject in here huh? Sorry, but the hypocrisy on the right is a relevent topic. She’s a possible 2012 candidate and people should see how she talks out of both of her faces.
@@
August 20th, 2010
8:30 am
AmVet:
How ’bout from now on, I end with “or something to that effect.”
Whatevah, dude.
The Aristocrat
August 20th, 2010
8:34 am
The government can’t provide ‘free’ health care to anyone because the government is not a producer- it does not create wealth. The government can only redistribute wealth through its ability to tax its citizens.Call it what you will, but any time one individual is taxed and another is not, yet benefit equally e.g. equal military protection/equal access to transportation infrastructure/etc. , the individual paying taxes has effectively had their wealth redistributed unjustly.
saywhat?
August 20th, 2010
8:43 am
Joseph Nix; “Gypsy” gets you apoplectic, but you have no problem with “uppity” and, “white trash”? Really?
I frankly don’t have much of a problem with any of them, since it mostly depends on the context in which they are used ( though I am still trying to think of a context for “white trash” that is not meant to be demeaning- perhaps “That pile of discarded paper napkins, eggshells and marshmellows is white trash”?).
AmVet
August 20th, 2010
8:57 am
Dudette, you would be wise to reconsider your propensity to misuse such words and phrases as no one, everyone, nobody, everybody, all, none, etc.
Reread my post, nowhere did I write that we were the ONLY ones – as you falsely asserted. In fact, I made no inference whatsoever that others cannot and do not as well.
So your faux correction of “something to that effect’ is meaningless.
You demonstrate dichotomous black and white thinking, a cognitive distortion – the bane of demagogues.
If you wish to intentionally and repeatedly misrepresent me and numerous others, at least don’t hide behind silly qualifiers, when confronted for doing so…
Intown
August 20th, 2010
9:10 am
Well, the Republicans did everything they could to make a mess of a good faith effort to reform healthcare. So, they too are to blame for any flaws in it, real or perceived.
Dirty Dawg
August 20th, 2010
9:15 am
Your right-wing buddies in Congress with their obstructionism and ‘just say no’ strategy made this a flawed bill, consequently requiring this list of explanations about the piece parts. At least when Democrats issue ‘talking points’, they’re true and accurate. Your guys don’t worry about little things like that…they’ll tell a lie when the truth will do.
You’re a transparent shill Wing-nut, and the fact that Cox Enterprises even has you on the payroll says the same about them.
@@
August 20th, 2010
9:17 am
AmVet:
Not to worry, that is what people like Paul, Kamchak, josef and I do.
Correct the vast amounts of misinformation promulgated by the intentionally uninformed…
Maybe you’re just intentionally “nunancy”….or something to that effect.
Like I said……whatevah. Have a great day. I intend to.
Jason T
August 20th, 2010
9:18 am
Intown/Dirty Dawg
You can’t blame the Reps for this joke of a bill. It was all Obama, Reid, and Pelosi. One Rep voted for it. Ridiculous accusation.
Dan
August 20th, 2010
9:25 am
Dirty Dawg, Obama had to coddle cajole and bribe Democrats to get the bill through, right wing “obstructionists” had zero power to obstruct until the Mass. election. All you need to know about the bill is Pelosis comment that “we need to pass this to see whats in it” I have never heard a statement that more blatantly show disdain for the voter
But Democratic voters rarely use common sense
Curious Observer
August 20th, 2010
9:32 am
This healthcare law is so bad that it will be defunded once Republicans achieve their gains in November, and the Blue Dogs will be there to help.
The battle was lost once Baucus didn’t allow either single-payer or a Medicare buy-in to make it to the committee. Thereafter, it became a feast for the insurance companies. The rest of us will be stuck with higher and higher health insurance premiums to pay for it. The insurance companies aren’t going to swallow a huge loss. And worse, the law does absolutely nothing to control healthcare costs.
And I don’t much care if it goes down. Better no law than a bad law.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
9:42 am
Obama = dumbest most inept president in history.
Obama now blames poor job numbers on congressional inaction. Wait! His party runs Congress
Just a few minor things to catch up on for the weekend now that the Fundraiser-in-Chief has gone on another vacation (Don’t worry though. White House chef Sam Kass went along, so the first family need not eat ordinary human food.)
– The Congressional Budget Office says the 2010 federal deficit will be in excess of $1.3 trillion, as in $1,000,000,000,000+. (BTW, the next level we’ll be talking about out of Washington is quadrillion, which has fifteen 0’s.)
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/08/obama-mosque-jobs-economy.html
Natio
August 20th, 2010
9:42 am
Without Iraq, we could easily afford national healthcare. It was a border crossing we should have thought more about. A trillion dollars for……….the military industrial complex, the Saudi Royal Family, and cheney (but then I repeat myself).
In fact I’m downright stuttering…….
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
9:44 am
“And even if the Bruin isn’t back by tonight, we’ll find some other refuge”|
How about doing that now, draft dodger.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
9:45 am
“Yet another sorry attempt to intentionally misspeak for others.”
You wrote the book on that, BedWet.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
9:49 am
Speaking of Braves, I’ll be at Wrigley for the Braves/Cubs game. I can’t wait to shout “LET’S GO LEE!!!!” just to piss off Cub fans.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
9:53 am
Why He Turns Voters Off
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BS Top – Schoen Obama Policies President Obama signed the health care bill in March. Voters are tired of the president pursuing policies they don’t want, and he’ll find out just how much in November. Douglas E. Schoen on the message in the latest polls—and how Obama can turn it around.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-08-18/obama-policies-turning-off-voters-polls-show/?cid=hp:mostpopular3
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
9:54 am
Obama’s Point of No Return
There comes a moment in a failing presidency where the incumbent, through some single gesture, action, or statement, crosses a certain line from beyond which there is no return. Through his own will and behavior, he so underlines his failings, so frames his negative image, that no further action can ever erase it. Fate, accident, and circumstance have nothing to do with it. It is the president himself who puts the period at the end of his own sentence.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/obamas_point_of_no_return.html
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
9:55 am
Nearly Half of United States Considering Arizona-Style Immigration Legislation
Twenty-two states are now in the process of drafting or seeking to pass legislation similar to Arizona’s law against illegal immigration. This is occurring despite the fact that the Obama administration has filed a lawsuit against the Arizona law and a federal judge has ruled against portions of that law – a ruling that is now being appealed.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/71294
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
9:56 am
“Without Iraq, we could easily afford national healthcare.”
LOL
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
10:01 am
So sister Cynthia has a piece declaring that Obama is a Christian. Geez, the left wingers are in total chaos these days. I’m not sure how an op-ed writer can declare that Obama is a Christian when he shows absolutely no signs of being a Christian.
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
10:02 am
He’s not much for chatting
Old media never is.
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
10:02 am
saywhat…
Okay, I’ll give it a shot here. Bear in mind I’m posting from “the sick bed,” so I’m not up to snuff. First, to uppity. Yiddish has a great word for much the same, chutzpah, but it still misses somewhat in application to the English view of the similar attitude. Uppity is when a person refuses to accept the stereotypical “place” assigned and makes a point of it, generally successfully. Thus, when somebody calls me an “uppity” Southerner, Jew, gay or what have you, if done with negative connotations, they are acknowledging that I have defied the conventional image and have the chutzpah to establish my equality in so doing.
White trash is not quite so easily defined in cultural context. For many outlanders, it is automatically decoded as being “po white trash.” When Bette Middler termed her early act as “trash with flash” she caught the essence. Trash is, like uppity, less an attitude than a lifestyle and every group, regardless of socio-economic status, produces its share. White trash is just the racial identity of said individual. As a positive reference, the great little series “White Trash Cookbook” gives an insight. Come to my house today and given the general disorder due to me not feeling up to clearing the table, the dirty clothes thrown about, me still laying about half-dressed, hair not combed, unshaven etc and I would welcome you “to white trash heaven…”
Now “Gypsy” is a completely different matter. It is the pejorative name applied to the Romany people as an antipathetic term of segregation. It’s use as an adjective has been too often in reference to illegal, criminal or shady behavior/practices associated with the Romany and, even at its less negative, as a quasi-romantic view of the Romany as a vagrant, wandering and anti-social class of people. I go near apoplectic as you say for one reason…the continued use of the term in the media and among supposedly sensitive people over the objections of many Roma speaks to how little the greater society knows or cares about the fragile status of the Romany people around the world. Recent events in France are but one example. They are regularly attacked and hounded out of towns, their children denied schooling, and the list could go on and on… The first step in correcting our social mistrust of and discrimination against them is to understand them better and that starts by calling them what they call themselves…
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
10:05 am
Dammeett…didn’t mean to derail the GF train.
How’s it going, GF? The White House cranked out a notice that O was a Christian so all good little toadies felt obliged to write some backup propaganda.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
10:09 am
“How’s it going, GF? ”
Oh, I’m fine. Loving the fact that the left wingers got left out in the cold by Kookman and now they’ve found a temporary shelter until he gets back.
“The White House cranked out a notice that O was a Christian so all good little toadies felt obliged to write some backup propaganda.”
Yeah, and Tucker follows lock step. Her cut and paste column makes absolutely no sense. She left out the fact that 39% of Democrats polled thought he was a muslim.
AmVet
August 20th, 2010
10:11 am
josef, out of my league a tad here, but the term “white trash” has *for me* been more about a mentality, more than a socio-economic status. Yes, visions of trailer parks come to mind, but the term is also in the purview of the nouveau riche as well. Trash is trash, no matter if they make $25K a year or $25M a year.
And interestingly, it is often used, especially by blacks, as a slur, but also by whites of higher socio-economic status to jokingly describe their origins.
From wiki: In 1854, Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote the chapter “Poor White Trash” in her book A Key to Uncle Tom’s Cabin. Stowe tells the reader that slavery not only produces “degraded, miserable slaves”, but also poor whites who are even more degraded and miserable. The plantation system forced those whites to struggle for subsistence. Beyond economic factors, Stowe traces this class to the shortage of schools and churches in their community, and says that both blacks and whites in the area look down on these “poor white trash”.
So to my way of thinking, just as you can take the boy out of the country, but…, you can take the trash out of the trailer park, but…
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
10:12 am
“out of my league a tad here”
Understatement of the year.
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
10:12 am
Oh, I’m fine
Good to hear, GF. Obama is no Muslim either. You can’t be all things to all people and still follow any reasonable faith.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
10:14 am
“Obama is no Muslim either.”
I think he’s a Buddhist. He worships his own being.
Kyle Wingfield
August 20th, 2010
10:15 am
Going on y’all’s OT:
I’ve certainly noticed all the extra traffic this week while Jay’s been on vacation, and I appreciate the contributions. I think my regular readers will tell you that my engagement tends to be a bit streaky, and it’s been a streak of lightness for most of this week. It’s no reflection of my appreciation for readers, old or new…it’s just been one of those weeks.
Thanks for dropping by — I hope you’ll continue to do so even after Jay returns.
And for my regular readers, thanks for playing nice with the newcomers!
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
10:17 am
I think he’s a Buddhist. He worships his own being.
A wannabe Tiger Woods eh? Could be, he certainly spends enough time playing pasture pool.
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
10:23 am
AmVet
Yes, it is very much a mentality…that is really what I was trying to get at and the word I should have used…white trash is just the particular group…I object strongly to those who say “trailer park trash” for the broad brush stroke…trash IN the trailer parks…that’s another matter…along the lines of what you were saying about it not being bound by economic class one of my elderly neighbors down the street was talking about some of our newcomers and said “that white trash down on the corner…” the house on the corner having gone for one of the highest prices in the area…but they’re still trash!
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
10:26 am
KYLE
Thanks…rest assured, this is one refugee who’ll come back…I like your style…
Jed
August 20th, 2010
10:26 am
And for the record, my political group,
paleo-confederate conservatives agin neo-conservatives,
recognize the fact that the terms gypsies, hitanos, jews, white-trash, n-word?, and etc………..
are not POLITICALLY incorrect.
These terms are SOCIALLY incorrect.
The “politically” incorrect term is designed by federal policy wonks to soften the subjects up for the FUTURE.
Where it will indeed be political, and hazardous, to speak out against the political state.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
10:29 am
“And for my regular readers, thanks for playing nice with the newcomers!”
For the most part I’ve played nice with Joseph and a couple of other old comrades from Jay’s blog. As for ScamVet, she deserves no mercy on the blogosphere. You should read some of the garbage she posts on Bookman’s pages. VILE and mean.
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
10:29 am
Yes, it is very much a mentality
josef,
If it’s a mentality wouldn’t it have to be their mentality rather than those people who would judge them’s mentality? Maybe it’s those stubborn Yankee roots of mine, but I don’t see you making much of a case for turning “white trash” into a term of endearment.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
10:30 am
“I think my regular readers will tell you that my engagement tends to be a bit streaky, and it’s been a streak of lightness for most of this week.’
Yeah, and unlike Tucker, who bans anyone and everyone, you’re fair.
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
10:33 am
Kyle,
Thanks for the welcome. I hope you’re not confusing readers with blog contributors. You’ll have far more readers than you’ll ever have contributors and even your contributors will have more readers.
Jason T
August 20th, 2010
10:36 am
@GF
Has Cynthia Tucker EVER made any sense? LOL!
AmVet
August 20th, 2010
10:37 am
Thanks for dropping by — I hope you’ll continue to do so even after Jay returns.
Thanks Kyle. Will do.
And for my regular readers, thanks for playing nice with the newcomers!
True, Mr. Wingfield, generally a good group here.
josef, do you remember the scene in Gone with the Wind where Dorothy first encounters the “Wizard” figure after leaving home? (”Child, you cut me to the quick! I’m an old Kansas man myself, born and bred – in the heart of the western wilderness…”)
I always thought of the “Wizard’ as a bit of a Kansas “gypsy”. For me, the term always had as much to do with a lifestyle than being a pejorative…
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
10:38 am
“Has Cynthia Tucker EVER made any sense? LOL!”
Well, come to think of it, no not really. I nearly died laughing when she wrote that Robert Byrd was not a racist but Judge Pickering was….
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
10:40 am
“True, Mr. Wingfield, generally a good group here.”
ScamVet is either now a shape shifting werewolf or she’s lying through her dentures. You write some of the most vicious and vile things over on Bookman’s blog and here you are acting all nice. You remind me of a Hyena. One minute you’re sitting there licking your butt and acting nice, the next minute you’re attacking local villagers.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
10:42 am
“Thanks Kyle. Will do.”
Doubt that. There’s too many “reicht wingers” as you call us, to name call and tear down on Bookman’s blog.
Jason T
August 20th, 2010
10:42 am
GF
In CT’s world, you CANNOT be a racist if you are a)A Democrat b)An African American. No way, not even possible.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
10:46 am
“In CT’s world, you CANNOT be a racist if you are a)A Democrat b)An African American. No way, not even possible.”
Eh, she once called Clarence Thomas a racist.
Jason T
August 20th, 2010
10:50 am
GF
That’s correct…let me amend my previous post…b) should now read b)A Liberal African American.
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
11:00 am
RW
It’s a dicey term and does sink deep into the cultural soil…I think where the confusion comes in is when the term is expanded to be po white trash at which time it takes on socio-economic connotations…the Southern “ear” can distinguish when just “(white) trash” is in reference to the mentality and when it is in reference to a class of people…as an endearnment, it’s sorta like that “bless his heart” thingie…
AmVet
Took me a minute there with that GWTW one and “wizard!” But the point you make does play into what I was saying about the quasi-romantic but no less stereotypic and drawing from the pejorative…
Bosch
August 20th, 2010
11:22 am
I’ve mentioned it before on another blog, but since the topic is here, I’ll chime in the fact that I am no fan of this new health care bill simply because it is not single payer. In my opinion, that is the only way to actually control costs. I give the Dems in Congress and the POTUS a big F- on this. They caved and bought into the insurance companies. In my opinion, the insurance companies are the problem concerning costs — they represent a removal from the free market system of allowing customers and suppliers to directly set the price of services. They do nothing in regards to direct care, but are a large percentage of the price incurred for services. Several industries have had to re-invent themselves due to ever changing and new technology and I dont’ see why health insurance companies can not do the same. Single payer all the way– until then, nothing will change except the increase in our premiums.
Dusty
August 20th, 2010
11:34 am
Whooooeee…. now let’s talk fair and sensible here and no insults…..But
WHY ARE YOU CALLING REDNECK “WHITE TRASH”?????? (Actually, he’s phony “white trash” which is even worse than real white trash ’cause he is phony liberal white trash. Did I get that right?)
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
11:36 am
Dusty
I love it when left wing retards trash talk the south yet choose to live here.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
11:39 am
From NY Times 2008
As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother’s Christian background is irrelevant.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opinion/12luttwak.html?_r=3&pagewanted=print
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
11:41 am
he is phony liberal white trash. Did I get that right?
Dusty,
You’re close but he’s a liberal phony not a phony liberal.
HDB
August 20th, 2010
11:42 am
“And for my regular readers, thanks for playing nice with the newcomers!”
Kyle…thanks for letting a diverse — and sometimes opposing – opinion state its case! Many use prejoratives rather than logic rule…and I’m glad that yo DO call them out on it!!
Grand Forks August 20th, 2010
10:38 am
“Has Cynthia Tucker EVER made any sense? LOL!”
Yes…she has; if one is open to diverse opinions and thoughts, CT has been quite poignant in some of her opinions!!
Jason T
August 20th, 2010
10:42 am
GF
In CT’s world, you CANNOT be a racist if you are a)A Democrat b)An African American. No way, not even possible.
Not quite true…..racism exists on all sides of the political and racial spectrum! We all…as individuals, have our biases and prejudices…..but the key that many here fail to note is that those that have the POWER to exert their racism do it as frequently as possible; those that do NOT have the power can only talk about it!! If one is honest about it….the group that has the greatest power exerts its influence the most!! Those whom are frequently railed against are those that have the LEAST amount of power!!
Halftrack
August 20th, 2010
11:50 am
The real talking points should be about costs. Insurance premiums are not being sent out with increases in their costs. The silent tax that is coming is that everyone will have to pay tax on the amount that your employer pays for you for your health insurance as this now becomes income to you. Benefits for you as an individual will not come until 2014, but many other costs are coming immediately to your door steps. The wolf is at the door and no one is here to rescue us except for us voting in November. P.T. Barnum said it best – one is born every minute.
HDB
August 20th, 2010
12:12 pm
Halftrack August 20th, 2010
11:50 am
“The wolf is at the door and no one is here to rescue us except for us voting in November. P.T. Barnum said it best – one is born every minute.”
Question: Who were the suckers….those that allowed the nation to be Bushwhacked…and caused us to NEED a change….or those who voted for the change….and angered those who desired to maintain the status quo!!??
If you think about it..there are suckers on both sides…but who were the bigger of the two??
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
12:41 pm
“Yes…she has; if one is open to diverse opinions and thoughts, CT has been quite poignant in some of her opinions!!”
Oh wow, I didn’t see that one coming. Imagine, HDB defending another racist.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
12:43 pm
HDB
I’m amazed at how you talk about race on a daily basis. I mean, it must suck to live in your world where all you do is live and breathe race race race.
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
12:44 pm
“Who were the suckers….those that allowed the nation to be Bushwhacked”
The country was better under Bush than they have been under Obama. Bush has been vindicated with Gitmo, Iraq, Afghanistan, economy, and everything else.
Dusty
August 20th, 2010
12:45 pm
HDB 12:12
Now you’ve done it. Back to the old song & dance. BUSHWHACKED huh? Bush pulled this country together after one of the historical tragedies to hit our nation.. He brought Americans to their feet and defied those who would kill thousands of unprotected American civilians on one sad day.
Now if you did not like that, why did you vote for a man who is carrying out Bush policies this very day? Change, huh? Combat troops are returning from Iraq right on the Bush schedule. Obama has followed several of Bush’s policies. The efforts that have come from the Obama Administration’s own planning are pure failure as evidenced by all statistics. The nebulous infantile healthcare bill is one of them.
Maybe you such drop your brain washing and pay attention to real facts. Bush had determination and stood up for it. Obama tries to appease and promote and flipflop with the crowd while passing out money we don’t have.. It is time for you to notice instead of the usual liberal rote suckered review.
Bosch
August 20th, 2010
12:47 pm
Hey Dusty! Sorry the Braves lost yesterday.
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
12:50 pm
You Obamabots better get over here and spam this poll. The results so far are pretty telling
Bosch
August 20th, 2010
1:02 pm
RW,
Hahaha. Now all the wingnut-bots are gonna spam it and make it worse. We liberals are too busy for stupid on-line polls, we are busy sipping our lattes.
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
1:05 pm
Bosch,
If SeeBS really wanted to drive some traffic to their poll they would make one of the answers be Ron Paul. Those Paulnuts are like moths to a flame when it comes to online polls.
Bosch
August 20th, 2010
1:09 pm
RW,
Paulnut. I like it. I’m a Paulnut, but for the blogger, not the politician. I like our blogger pal Paul. He’s cool.
Off topic, but how’d ya’ see the Governor race going?
Snidley Backlash
August 20th, 2010
1:09 pm
Kyle,
I was so nice to your guests that I took them out on the town last night, even rented a limo. They finally agreed on their favorite place to meet: the Atlanta Zoo. They unanimously voted to have dinner at Kroger’s. They each selected their preferences of cans of beans & Vienna sausage. The Kroger deli was kind enough to let them use the can opener & some spoons. I thought they might enjoy attending the Braves game but they insisted on going to a wrestling match. On the way to the arena, I noticed they limited their comments to one sentence at a time, just like they do on the blogs. The sign out front indicated that Chris Benoit would be on the mat against Savage Love. I mentioned that Benoit killed himself (along with his wife & son). They denied that the story was true because MSNBC had not reported it. They agreed that it’s only common sense that if it’s not on MSNBC, “it ain’t true.” Anyway, we watched a fake wrestler participating in a fake sport & they enjoyed every minute. I was unable to get my limo deposit back. There was too much evidence of man-made global warming in the back seat.
Jefferson
August 20th, 2010
1:12 pm
Hey Kyle, nice words not a bad place other than someone needs to check IDs to keep the kid out.
Just think of the health care as a work in progress.
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
1:16 pm
Bosch,
With the volume of Roy Barnes ads already playing people are probably going to be so sick of him by November Deal will win easily.
Jefferson
August 20th, 2010
1:18 pm
So a crook is better than a liar for gov ?
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
1:23 pm
Jefferson,
I hardly think a prediction qualifies as an endorsement, but a crook probably is better than a liar. At least the crook is dedicated to something.
Not So Casual Observer
August 20th, 2010
1:23 pm
As long as the choice is between “establishment” Republicans and Democrats an intelligent voter will be required to hold their nose to vote for either one. Deal or Barnes is no choice at all.
HDB
August 20th, 2010
1:26 pm
Grand Forks August 20th, 2010
12:41 pm
“Yes…she has; if one is open to diverse opinions and thoughts, CT has been quite poignant in some of her opinions!!”
Oh wow, I didn’t see that one coming. Imagine, HDB defending another racist.”
No…not defending a racist; CT isn’t one….but those who keep decrying her views have issues……..
Dusty August 20th, 2010
12:45 pm
HDB 12:12
“Now you’ve done it. Back to the old song & dance. BUSHWHACKED huh? Bush pulled this country together after one of the historical tragedies to hit our nation.. He brought Americans to their feet and defied those who would kill thousands of unprotected American civilians on one sad day…..”
Economically….the Bush years were NOT the best times for Americans; I know of too many people who lost economic ground (I, for one!)….THAT’S my focus! Bush took two wars and put the spending off the books…and sent the nation down economically! If that’s not Bushwhacked….please elaborate!!
“Maybe you such drop your brain washing and pay attention to real facts. ” I have…TARP, bailouts, economic downfall: all are attributed to the BUSH years! Where was the level of outrage over the deficit and risin unemployment…and the bailouts when Bush was in the White House?? The silence then was deafening!!
The GOP had 8 years to get healthcare straight…and did nothing; the GOP had 20 years to take care of the border…..nothing happened!! Obama’s ICE has deported more than Bush did…..and has made the attempt to work on health care….and the war spending is ON THE BOOKS..so we do know how much we’re spending!!
Not brain-washed…..just not buying all that the Bushies claim!! Also think about this: 1) Who funded the mujahaddin in Afghanistan in the 80s to fight the Russians…..and now, those who were funded have turned on the US? (Ronald Reagan) Who has a working relationship with the bib Laden family, serving on the Board of Directors of the Carlyle Group? (George HW Bush). Who allowed the bin Laden to leave the US when all aircraft in and out of US airspace were grounded? (George W. Bush) Who funded Saddam Hussein against the Iranians? (Ronald Reagan)
There’s more to this than you think….and I’m looking at it realistically!!!
Jefferson
August 20th, 2010
1:28 pm
RW, do you not think crooks also lie? What if the man is indighted (sic?) Would that push it to — I just won’t vote?
HDB
August 20th, 2010
1:33 pm
Grand Forks August 20th, 2010
12:43 pm
“HDB
I’m amazed at how you talk about race on a daily basis. I mean, it must suck to live in your world where all you do is live and breathe race race race.”
My world’s GREAT! The focus of the NATION always has a racial tinge to it!! Look at how groups are pitted against each other! Is it “racist” to point that out?? Don’t think so…..but the more it’s pointed out…the sooner we as a nation can get past it!! To determine how to solve a problem, you have to see that the problem exists!! The nation isn’t perfect…but we are strving to create a “more perfect union”! You point out the flaws so that you can FIX them! Ignoring the flaws makes them harder to fix…….
HDB
August 20th, 2010
1:37 pm
Grand Forks
August 20th, 2010
12:44 pm
“Who were the suckers….those that allowed the nation to be Bushwhacked”
The country was better under Bush than they have been under Obama. Bush has been vindicated with Gitmo, Iraq, Afghanistan, economy, and everything else.
Not everybody feels that way…..and as someone here said: perception IS reality!! I know of many who were working prior to 9/11/01….lost their jobs…and have YET to recover!! The economy went down….and in several areas, Bush has YET to be vindicated…but definitely vilified!!
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
1:46 pm
Jumping in here, but who are the suckers? I venture it’s any of us who keep voting Tweedle-Dum (R) or Tweedle-Dee (D) We fall for the talking heads’ promotion of the two parties to the exclusion, and I do mean exclusion, of those who do come in trying to offer an alternative. The gubernatorial race here in Georgia is but one example. There is a third choice on the ballot. Someone said recently he wasn’t “getting his message out.” The media are intent on seeing to it that he doesn’t,
Racism, etc. Face it, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. We are mired in a black-white dichotomy in this matter. Brown has found its voice and is beginning to get some attention now but black and white are, it appears, hell-bent on getting shed of as many of them as possible as quickly as possible up to an including virtual repeal of the 14th Amendment. Red has no voice and when mentioned is consistently referred to with crocodile tears in the past imperfect tense. Yellow? Let’s see, there was something on a slow news day about a MARTA line, wasn’t there?
HDB
August 20th, 2010
1:58 pm
josef nix August 20th, 2010
1:46 pm
It would be nice if there were other possibilities….but how can one get the message out when they’re drowned by the din of the preponderant two??
“We are mired in a black-white dichotomy in this matter. Brown has found its voice and is beginning to get some attention now but black and white are, it appears, hell-bent on getting shed of as many of them as possible as quickly as possible up to an including virtual repeal of the 14th Amendment.” Right now, it’s nore of a trichotomy, isn’t it?? As I stated before….it’s more of maintaining POWER moreso that doing what’s right!! FEAR is the driving force behind most of this…primarily..the fear of losing power!!
AmVet
August 20th, 2010
2:06 pm
The gubernatorial race here in Georgia is but one example. There is a third choice on the ballot. Someone said recently he wasn’t “getting his message out.” The media are intent on seeing to it that he doesn’t,
josef, until we force change, the corporate owned media will never allow any non Rep-Dem voices to be heard. they long ago shut out and sold out the American people.
Just look at that farce called the Commission on Presidential Debates. Aka the American Politburo.
Take one teeny guess who controls it?
Yep, the Republican and Democratic Parties. Arguably, the two greatest failures in all of America.
But then they’ve ensured that the flacks who use our airwaves do so for free, not even paying rent to we the people, who own them, so it’s not at all surprising, is it?
And how ironic that the biggest blowhards in America, like HeadRush, and innumerable others, who rave and rant against the mooches turn out to be major league mooches as well…
Dusty
August 20th, 2010
2:13 pm
HDB,
If you are going to go back decades in history and blame every thing there you don’t like on Bush, there is nothing I can say to you. You are acting like things were worse before Obama and that is not true. The debt was not as great whether you add in war expenses or not. You cannot say employment was wrorse with ‘Bush. You cann’t say the banks were in worse shape with Bush. You cannot say that the housing market was worse under Bush. You can’t say that worthless stimulus funds raising the national debt even more were thrown out by Bush. You want to nit pick the Bush years while ignoring the dilemma that is Obama.
Maybe if you hold up your head and look around you might notice that things are not going well. And you might notice that Obama is president and has been for some time now and the growing mess is under his administration. Keep whistling in the dark, fellow, but you have strayed from the obvious truth.
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
2:14 pm
HDB
I would agree that we’re headed toward a trichotomy, perhaps, but the issue of brown is still being square-pegged into the round holes of the old liners.
AmVet
As was said in Pogo years ago, “we have met the enemy and he is us.”
Dusty
August 20th, 2010
2:15 pm
AmVet,
Mooches, huh? Takes one to know one.
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
2:17 pm
Bush or Obama…matters little to me, on my issues they’re pretty much two peas in a pod or as Unmentionable put it the other night, “what do you want? A red hot air baloon or a blue hot air balloon?”
Dusty
August 20th, 2010
2:19 pm
josef,
If you don’t stop talking “trichotomy” I’m coming over and perform tracheotomy!!
Ha, scared, aren’t ya!!! I know how to use the big weapons!!
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
2:19 pm
RW, do you not think crooks also lie?
Probably, Jefferson. Do you have a point to make?
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
2:23 pm
Dusty
A tracheotomy might be welcome today…I’ve got this bug that’s going around and can hardly breathe…but that was HDB’s word, not mine…
HDB
August 20th, 2010
2:28 pm
Dusty August 20th, 2010
2:13 pm
“You are acting like things were worse before Obama and that is not true. You cannot say employment was worse with Bush.” For some people, it IS true! Ask those who were suddenly thrust into unemployment on 9/11 (I know of a 25,000 person layoff that happened…I was IN it!) and have yet to recover; ask those who progressed under Clinton….and regressed under Bush!!
“The debt was not as great whether you add in war expenses or not.” Why then was the national debt DECLINING before Bush came to the White House…and his VP callously said: “Deficits don’t matter”?
“You can’t say the banks were in worse shape with Bush.” Then why was TARP necessary?? Why are the credit markets shot to h3ll right now??
“You cannot say that the housing market was worse under Bush.” Why then can’t people get mortgages? Why did the foreclosure rate begin to skyrocket?
“You can’t say that worthless stimulus funds raising the national debt even more were thrown out by Bush.” Why then are Republicans lining up to take credit for stimulus programs that they voted against??
“You want to nit pick the Bush years while ignoring the dilemma that is Obama.” No…not ignoring the dilemna..but I recognize the dilemna that Obama was thrust INTO!! What this Administration has to fix has been thrust upon it by 43 Administrations that preceeded it!! I don’t expect one man to fix in two years what took 234 years to screw up! Miracles don’t happen overnight!!
No More Progressives!
August 20th, 2010
2:29 pm
HDB
August 20th, 2010
11:42 am
Has HDB edver made any sense?
The First Amendement is great, isn’t it?
HDB
August 20th, 2010
2:30 pm
josef nix August 20th, 2010
2:23 pm
Hope you’re getting better……hot tea and cognac kills most bugs going around!!! Take a hot shower and breathe the steam….that should open you up!! Works for me!!
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 20th, 2010
2:31 pm
For whatever my opinion is worth, I view Deal and Barnes, as both being crooks. I’ve been looking into Monds. Some of his ideas I like and some I don’t. I may wind up voting for him, or I may wind up just skipping over that one.
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
2:31 pm
Ask those who were suddenly thrust into unemployment on 9/11 (I know of a 25,000 person layoff that happened…I was IN it!) and have yet to recover
HDB,
Are you honestly trying to say that being attacked on 9/11 was a Bush policy?
HDB
August 20th, 2010
2:32 pm
No More Progressives! August 20th, 2010
2:29 pm
Yes, the First Amendment is great….and I HAVE made sense…just not enough people are willing to fully analyze it…without denigrating it!!
HDB
August 20th, 2010
2:34 pm
RW-(the original) August 20th, 2010
2:31 pm
I didn’t say 9/11 was a policy….but the policies and actions taken subsequent to 9/11 adversely affected a LOT of people!! THAT’S my point!! Bush used a meat cleaver in foreign policy when he needed a scapel!! You don’t take the nation to war and allocate massive resources when a more surgical approach would’ve worked!
HDB
August 20th, 2010
2:35 pm
…the attack therein….
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 20th, 2010
2:35 pm
This is pretty cool, even if the guy was Phillies fan.
http://sports.yahoo.com/sportsminute
AmVet
August 20th, 2010
2:35 pm
josef, at first I thought you meant a tracheotomy for Dusty!
A tracheotomy to the brain!
HDB, repeat after me – George W. Bush is faultless. EVERYTHING that has happened after January 20, 2009 is in no manner connected to him. He is not in the slightest regard, responsible for the events of today. His impact ended the moment his successor replaced him.
And this sir, is the backdrop to the Party of No’s game plan for their predicted stunning successes this fall and forever more as well as the sanctified resurrection of their failed and roundly repudiated neo-conservatism…
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
2:38 pm
HDB,
Then its very difficult to see what you mean when you say you were suddenly thrust into unemployment on 9/11 and placing the blame on President Bush.
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
2:38 pm
HDB
The hot shower works for a bit and the three pots of water boiling on the stove are pallative, but it’s the sippin whiskey that makes it tolerable…nothing like a good excuse to lay around like drunken white trash all day, eh?
Hillbilly
So, you’re here! See what you got me into you uppity white trash good ole boy???
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
2:42 pm
Hillbilly D,
Quite a few years back they used to hand out honorary contracts to fans that caught balls in the stands. They might want to give that guy a real one.
HDB
August 20th, 2010
2:42 pm
AmVet August 20th, 2010
2:35 pm
Is it like the hypnotist trying to put you to sleep with the silver watch….but it doesn’t work because the clock keeps ticking?? Like I said: What EVERY Administration has to deal with is thrust upon it from ALL of the previous Administrations! Just like a Clint Eastwood movie: “The Good, the Bad, and the UGLY”!!
HDB
August 20th, 2010
2:45 pm
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
2:38 pm
HDB,
Then its very difficult to see what you mean when you say you were suddenly thrust into unemployment on 9/11 and placing the blame on President Bush
Try working for United Airlines on 9/11, get laid off….and the job market dries up for two years!! Try working there for over 30 yrs….but too young to retire (know of 5 people like that!)Look at what should have been done domestically to keep the job markets open! Bush said: “Spend money!” Can’t spend money if you don’t have a job!!
Who was at the helm then??
AmVet
August 20th, 2010
2:45 pm
HD, hysterical. Maybe the best foul snag I’ve ever seen.
I always laugh when the commentators remark that fans will risk life and limb for a foul ball, while players scatter like a live grenade is coming!
HDB
August 20th, 2010
2:46 pm
josef nix August 20th, 2010
2:38 pm
Hey…never say you’re drunk….just state you are “socially confused”!!!
Hillbilly Deluxe
August 20th, 2010
2:46 pm
Josef
I figured that would be like playing a hornet’s nest for a pinata.
For my two cents, “white trash” is a lifestyle and has nothing to do with money, lack of it, or where you live. A person that we considered “white trash” was just plain sorry. I’ve known plenty of them, rich, poor and in between.
Uppity, for us, just meant a person who was “big feeling”, sometimes they had reason to feel that way and most times not.
Good ol’ boy, meant just what it says. Being called a “good ol’ boy” or “good ol’ girl”, is a compliment.
I got things to do. Maybe the hornets will be in the nest by the time I get back.
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
2:52 pm
HDB
That’s a good one…!
HDB
August 20th, 2010
2:54 pm
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
2:52 pm
HDB
That’s a good one…!
Works really well with the cops if they pull you over….as long as you don’t have to do the field sobriety test!!
HDB
August 20th, 2010
2:54 pm
Have a good weekend, all…..got to catch a plane!!!
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
2:55 pm
HD
@ 2:35
Now, that’s just TOO cool! Thanks…
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
2:55 pm
HDB,
What should President Bush have done to assure you of lifetime employment with United Airlines?
Jefferson
August 20th, 2010
2:57 pm
RW, my only point would be – how could anyone vote for a crook? Party means little to me. I have heard the charges against Deal, I have heard none against Roy, but I do believe his mouth is writin’ checks his ass can’t cover…
Maybe a change would be good, after all look at all the errors in their ways the GOP keep bringing up (with prodding by the tea men), they are going to seek rehab…
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
2:59 pm
Jefferson,
Is someone a crook as soon as somebody else accuses them of something? If so how does anybody ever not vote for a crook?
Jefferson
August 20th, 2010
3:01 pm
In this case the ethics complaint against Deal and the FACT the state didn’t cancel the no bid contract after the influence pedding looks more than an accusation.
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
3:03 pm
They’re politicians. Of course they’re crooks and liars. It’s in the job description.
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
3:09 pm
Jefferson,
Do you have a handy link to an unbiased source? I never researched Deal before the primaries and I supported Handel to begin with so there wasn’t much need to look into him for the runoff.
Jefferson
August 20th, 2010
3:10 pm
I don’t think Bush was a crook, at least from the point of using his position to enrich himself, but his lies may have crosses the grey area. Same with Clinton. Obama, too early to tell most of his lies appear to be from being over optimistic when dealing with a bad situation. But he is early in his part of history.
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
3:11 pm
They’re politicians. Of course they’re crooks and liars. It’s in the job description.
You old cynic, you.
Jefferson
August 20th, 2010
3:12 pm
RW, no unbias source – just articals I have read in the papers and magazine. I don’t have links. If I was in court, the defendent would walk.
Bruno
August 20th, 2010
3:21 pm
“even if the guy was Phillies fan.”
The nice part about being both a Phillies fan AND a Braves fan is that I usually have someone to cheer for in postseason.
Has a staging ground been selected for Friday Night Music yet?
RW-(the original)
August 20th, 2010
3:22 pm
If I was in court, the defendent would walk.
Jefferson,
In your scenario Deal would be the defendant. If you’d let him walk it doesn’t sound like you think he’s a crook. I was looking at John Monds and if the election was today he’d have my vote. I am curious why immigration reform doesn’t seem to be anywhere on his radar screen, but on most of the issues his stance lines up pretty well with mine.
But shrieks and horrors!!! He’s going to be appearing at the Coweta Tea Party Patriot rally.
Jefferson
August 20th, 2010
3:27 pm
Rw, no I think he is a crook, I just can’t provide you with the information I have read. I too will take a look at the 3rd party guy, as I voted for ole Bob in the Presidential race because I would not vote for anyone who voted for TARP, another strike against Deal.
josef nix
August 20th, 2010
3:30 pm
the third choice
http://www.peachpundit.com/2010/06/24/podcast-with-john-monds-candidate-for-governor/
md
August 20th, 2010
3:32 pm
“What this Administration has to fix has been thrust upon it by 43 Administrations that preceeded it!! I don’t expect one man to fix in two years what took 234 years to screw up! Miracles don’t happen overnight!!”
Doubt a fire has ever been put out by adding kindling…………..
AmVet
August 20th, 2010
3:34 pm
B, Normal posted this over at Tucker’s blog a few minutes ago:
Bookmanites,
Last I checked, Jay wasn’t back up yet, so let’s meet at his last working post and do our music! I suggest generational music. How many songs can you post from your birth year. See ya there around 4:45…
But personally, after a long week, I’m ready for an attitude adjustment and see no reason to wait another hour or so!
In my best Charlie Steiner voice, “Follow me to freedom!”
md
August 20th, 2010
3:36 pm
Crook or Liar – tough one, but the way it is supposed to work, crooks do their time and do their penance to society and are supposed to be absolved of their “mistake” (of which we all have done, but our society has allowed a mistake to morph into a lifelong pox).
Liars more than likely have perpetual character flaws (as do some crooks).
Bruno
August 20th, 2010
3:36 pm
“I’m ready for an attitude adjustment and see no reason to wait another hour or so!”
I hear you, bro. Catch you there later on.