Europe shows the result of total insistence on tolerance
The American people, having been put through endless sensitivity training over the past few decades, know offensiveness when they see it. And they see it in the mosque proposed for lower Manhattan.
So, yes, the American people are a bit stunned to find the fingers pointed at themselves when controversy erupts over a $100 million Islamic project just two blocks from where 10 terrorists brought down two 110-story towers in the name of Islam. They don’t find this turning of the sensitivity tables ironic, but outrageous.
They are more than irked to hear the speaker of the House of Representatives suggest that those Americans speaking out against the mosque should be investigated to see who’s bankrolling them, not least since the identities of the mosque’s donors are still being withheld.
They hear lofty talk about tolerance and upholding the First Amendment — or at least part of it — and they think, “The freedom to practice Islam in this country does not hinge on the specific placement of one mosque in downtown New York. That’s not what this is about.”
They find it hard to believe that reputedly moderate Muslims dedicated to “improving Muslim-West relations,” as the Cordoba Initiative group behind this project says it is, would be surprised to learn that Americans’ wound hasn’t scabbed over in nine divisive years. Or think that they can demonstrate good faith by tacking on a 9/11 memorial at the last minute.
In fact, if the Cordoba planners and their supporters understand anything about America in 2010, they will see a country that can’t seem to snap out of an economic downturn, that is underemployed and overextended, where an entire coastline stands to be covered in oil (until it isn’t), where the states are suing the feds over a health care law and the feds are suing a state over an immigration law and everyone is suing everyone else over gay marriage laws, where anti-war protesters are throwing pies in the faces of Democratic senators and flight attendants are cussing out their passengers and taking the emergency chute.
And they will think, maybe this is not the very best moment to gauge the national reserves of tolerance and patience.
The wiser heads among us will think about the ground zero mosque and that immigration law, and their thoughts will turn once again to that place that so often lately has been showing us the future consequences of our present actions: Europe.
They will recall that the political class’ general prescription for everyday Europeans’ misgivings about their substantial Muslim influx has been more insistence on tolerance, more multiculturalism and the dismissal of any concerns to the contrary from polite political conversation.
They will observe that the result in formerly tolerant places like Holland, where a filmmaker and a politician critical of Islam and immigrants were assassinated, and Belgium, where certain immigrant-heavy areas of the capital Brussels and the port city Antwerp are virtual no-go zones for people who look European, has been a spike in the popularity and electoral success of openly anti-immigrant, anti-Islam political parties.
They will note that the failure of political leaders in these countries, and in places like Denmark, Switzerland and even Britain, to deal seriously with popular complaints about the other has not ended the complaints but made them louder and uglier.
And they will conclude that even in America, with a prouder history of assimilation and inclusiveness than Europe has, it would be prudent to meet this outrage with something other than finger-wagging.
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508 comments Add your comment
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:40 pm
“I don’t think the mosque is going up anytime soon.”
Construction workers have already said they won’t touch it. Guess the muslims will have to import some camels and donkeys to carry the load.
Rafe Hollister
August 19th, 2010
4:40 pm
It is not a community center, unless the community is free to use it with no unreasonable restrictions. Women should be allowed to work out without having to wear a burqua, like those soccer players we saw trying to kick a ball while enclosed in a trash bag.
@@
August 19th, 2010
4:41 pm
HDB:
I’m curious…from which right have you been disenfranchised?
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:41 pm
“Fom the Washington Examiner”
That’s all I needed to read to laugh at it.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:42 pm
“thousands of community centers affiliated with religious organizations/congregations of every stripe…”
Are Christians, Jews etc allowed to enter this mosque? NOPE
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:43 pm
More tough economic times forecast by CBO
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The economy faces even more difficult times ahead with chronic unemployment and slow manufacturing hurting the recovery, the head of Congress’ budget agency said on Thursday.
The warning from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office came on top of more bad economic data that heightened concerns about a return to recession and sent markets roiling. It could also spell trouble for Democrats facing November elections.
The CBO forecast the U.S. budget deficit will hit $1.342 trillion this year, down slightly from its March projection of $1.368 trillion.
It attributed most of the $27 billion change in its fiscal 2010 deficit projection to an estimated $50 billion reduction in the cost of TARP, the U.S. government’s bailout of financial institutions in 2009.
But the figures show that without significant changes in U.S. tax and spending laws, the government will struggle to dig its way out of a deep fiscal deficit hole.
Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf painted a picture of a tough recovery from recession, although the CBO predicted a 3 percent economic growth rate this year.
“The considerable number of vacant houses and underused factories and offices will be a continuing drag on residential construction and business investment, and slow income growth as well as lost wealth will restrain consumer spending,” he said.
The unemployment rate will not fall to around 5 percent until 2014, Elmendorf said. The last time the jobless rate was 5 percent was April 2008, just as the economy was heading into recession and unemployment was on the rise.
BAD FOR DEMOCRATS
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
4:43 pm
problem
Have had similar experiences…one that will forever be etched in mind was when I was in a very small village in the south of France and I was asked by a local to come and visit her elderly mother. She wanted to “thank the Americain” for the sacrifices of “your people” in helping to liberate her from the nazis…a truly humbling experience…
AmVet
August 19th, 2010
4:44 pm
The “truth” was bemoaning that some mythical figure from the 700s was one.
I believe it is MUCH more relevant that there are so many dozens of them in American political office today.
If you choose to give them a free pass or sweep it under the carpet, that is your choice.
@@
August 19th, 2010
4:44 pm
Now that I think about it, the economy has disenfranchised me from the work I love. On second thought maybe not…I disenfranchised myself but somebody had to give. It was a single mom, a woman whose husband is on disability or me.
I chose me.
@@
August 19th, 2010
4:46 pm
AmVet:
If you choose to give them a free pass or sweep it under the carpet
I didn’t even read past the first paragraph. Were they politicians? Are they still in office?
Some from the other side remained in office.
Jason T
August 19th, 2010
4:47 pm
AmVet
August 19th, 2010
3:54 pm
Mohammed was a pedophile?
Dang! He’d have made a good modern day Republican
Democrat Pedophiles and Sex Offenders Outnumber Repubs, many Dems re-elected.
REP. JOHN YOUNG (D-Tex.):
REP. ALLAN HOWE (D-Utah):
REP. FRED RICHMOND (D-N.Y.):
REP. JOHN HINSON (D-Miss.):
REP. ROBERT BAUMAN (D-Md.):
REP. GERRY STUDDS (D-Mass.):
SEN. BROCK ADAMS (D-Wash.):……
I have more, want to see? Your turn.
HDB
August 19th, 2010
4:48 pm
@@ August 19th, 2010
4:37 pm
“Based on your posts…the ones I’ve read here…you haven’t healed yet. How long is this gonna take?” In some areas, I haven’t….in some, I have!! Not afraid to admit that!! I do understand that in some cases, healing takes vigilence…and time!! Whenever a wound reopens, one has to NOT lash out, but work harder to heal!! Calling things out is part of the healing process!! Anger and fear can not be allowed to rule…and that’s what’s happening now!!
Eventually, I see the mosque going up….it may be delayed, but it will get there!! You’re fighting a determined bunch of people! Unless they’re bought out…….
Grand Forks August 19th, 2010
4:38 pm
I never tire of you….you make me laugh!!
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:48 pm
Jason T
Don’t forget Eric Massa and Bill Clinton.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:48 pm
“I never tire of you….you make me laugh!!”
That’s a racist statement.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
4:49 pm
Mosques are no more closed to non Muslims than churches and synagogues are to non Christians and non Jews. If it is your first visit and you are properly mannered, it might be best to check with a congregant as to the proper behavior expected of a guest…
Rafe Hollister
August 19th, 2010
4:50 pm
HDB: My disinfranchisement is worse than your disinfranchisement. That is the game Dems always play. Reps are priviledged so they can stand some disinfranchisement, we poor Dems have sufferred much and disinfranchisement hurts our feelings.
Thanks for the discription of the mosque. A swimming pool? Will bikinis be allowed. One piece or do the girls have to wear one of those suits designed for over 60 women with the little skirt around their waist. Knowing the muslims they will require females to swim in a different smaller pool than the gents, since they are second class citizens. Even though they are segregated they will still require them to swim in their clothes. I thought America was about equality, what say you HDB?
Rafe Hollister
August 19th, 2010
4:51 pm
GF: I can spell most of the time, description- is how it should read. Please forgive HDB and me for our spelling errors, it is just a blog after all.
HDB
August 19th, 2010
4:52 pm
@@ August 19th, 2010
4:44 pm
“Now that I think about it, the economy has disenfranchised me from the work I love…”
Similar circumstance here……
….and the economy is based on the atmosphere that is politically set!!
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:54 pm
“GF: I can spell most of the time, description- is how it should read. Please forgive HDB and me for our spelling errors, it is just a blog after all.”
I was pointing HDB’s poor grammar because she talked about how smart she is.
Go Sarah!
August 19th, 2010
4:55 pm
You tell it like it is, Kyle! Or as Sarah says, “Reload!” I think we really should ban all muslim mosques in Lower Manhattan…nothing below 42nd street would be fair, don’t you think?
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:55 pm
“Mosques are no more closed to non Muslims than churches and synagogues are to non Christians and non Jews.”
Uh huh, somehow I don’t believe you.
Rafe Hollister
August 19th, 2010
4:55 pm
I changed my mind, I bet their is just one pool, for males only.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
4:58 pm
GF
Have you ever attended Friday prayers at a mosque? Shabbas at a synagogue? Wednesday night prayer meeting at a Holinist church?
@@
August 19th, 2010
4:59 pm
HDB:
….and the economy is based on the atmosphere that is politically set!!
I know! We sho ’nuff need some jobs. Obama ain’t doing too good in that respect.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
5:00 pm
“Have you ever attended Friday prayers at a mosque?”
No, I didn’t want my head cut off.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
5:02 pm
The shame of New York
Why there’s a space for the mosque
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_shame_of_new_york_TLa3pKBborwxO3tfoRpoNO#ixzz0×5WkGByu
Rafe Hollister
August 19th, 2010
5:02 pm
GF@5PM, Right on, we need you here!
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
5:02 pm
GF
Well, you should. You might learn something.
HDB
August 19th, 2010
5:02 pm
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:48 pm
“I never tire of you….you make me laugh!!” That’s a racist statement.
No it isn’t; I only called you a comedian!!
Rafe Hollister August 19th, 2010
4:50 pm
“HDB: My disinfranchisement is worse than your disinfranchisement. That is the game Dems always play. Reps are priviledged so they can stand some disinfranchisement, we poor Dems have sufferred much and disinfranchisement hurts our feelings.”
It’s not actually that way….but…Republicans HAVE seemed to favor the privileged few….and their policies have not helped the middle class to prosper. Many would call that wealth envy….but the middle class HAS shrunk, with only the poorer classes growing!! Now…don’t get me wrong: I have nothing against those who pay their taxes…..but when the wealthy pay a lesser percentage in taxes than the preponderance of Americans do….and tax breaks lean more towards the wealthy….there is something wrong with that paradigm!! I had not problem paying higher taxes when I was in the upper-5/lower-6 figure range…..
People rail about certain areas of disenfranchisement…but have yet to experience it! Walk in those shoes for a minute….and it would be better understood! Like Chris Rock said (for lack of a better analogy): “No white person one would want to swap places with me…and I’m RICH!”
@@
August 19th, 2010
5:02 pm
josef:
The lady I mentioned earlier…the one whose Mom died in the towers said that, in her homeland, Jews and Christians weren’t invited to attend services in the mosques there. She said that from her perspective, mosques in the Middle East, clearly set out to separate themselves from the more secular in society.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
5:03 pm
“No it isn’t; I only called you a comedian!!”
You don’t get sarcasm do you?
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
5:04 pm
“Well, you should. You might learn something.”
Things like bomb making, beheading people, raping women…………..
Nah, you can have that stuff, Nix.
@@
August 19th, 2010
5:04 pm
…maybe the word was isolate, but she used the word separate, quite frequently.
Rafe Hollister
August 19th, 2010
5:04 pm
josef: how should Grand Forks dress so he is not expelled. Can he wear flip flops and risk someone seeing the sole of his shoe. Can he take his wife wearing her little black minidress?
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
5:04 pm
“GF@5PM, Right on, we need you here!”
Well, unlike Kookman, Kyle has a lot of tolerance for different views even if it means defending oneself against left wing retards.
HDB
August 19th, 2010
5:05 pm
@@
August 19th, 2010
4:59 pm
HDB:
….and the economy is based on the atmosphere that is politically set!!
I know! We sho ’nuff need some jobs. Obama ain’t doing too good in that respect.
Well, I made it through to find a job in May, 2009……blessed in that aspect!! I know that others have yet to have some success…but patience and perserverance will win out!! The economy IS changing…albeit slowly!!
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
5:05 pm
@@
Left wingers don’t even realize that muslims call for the death of homosexuals. Idiots.
Rafe Hollister
August 19th, 2010
5:06 pm
sole of his feet, vice, sole of his shoe. I think either is suppossed to be discourteous or carry some disrespect. Shoes, I don’t get it, I know I’m a country rube, but in church you can come in barefoot, if that is the best footwear you own.
HDB
August 19th, 2010
5:06 pm
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
5:03 pm
“No it isn’t; I only called you a comedian!!”
You don’t get sarcasm do you?
I got it…just making sure you did!! When do you do back on stage??
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
5:06 pm
“Well, I made it through to find a job in May, 2009……blessed in that aspect!!”
Oh yeah, I forgot that the black panther party had an opening.
“The economy IS changing…albeit slowly!!”
Yeah, it goes down further and further.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
5:07 pm
“I got it…just making sure you did!! When do you do back on stage??”
Better question, when will you stop blaming white people for your stupidity?
HDB
August 19th, 2010
5:09 pm
Back in 1 hr, folks……
AmVet
August 19th, 2010
5:09 pm
Sure, go ahead, Jason T.
(Oh! But watch out or you’ll be accused of recruiting for NAMBLA! LOL.)
BTW, what was your take on those 73 Republicans listed in that link? Any faves?
HDB
August 19th, 2010
5:11 pm
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
5:07 pm
“I got it…just making sure you did!! When do you do back on stage??”
Better question, when will you stop blaming white people for your stupidity?
When the majority of them wake up and realize that they had some fault in things! Can’t always blame the victim when he has no control!! Besides….one man’s stupidity is another man’s genius!!
@@
August 19th, 2010
5:12 pm
HDB:
According to a new poll 81% believe that Obama is doing poorly at handling the economic crisis.
You’re in the minority AGAIN!
Ah pooh!!!
Rafe Hollister
August 19th, 2010
5:12 pm
HDB: don’t want to get into a tax argument as this is about the Mosque and Muslims, but almost 50% of our citizens pay no federal income tas. I don’t think the country can survive long if people learn that they can vote themselves more of the producers money.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
5:14 pm
@@
In some countries and among some sects, yes. In others, no. Some Christian sects and some Jewish sects are much the same…which is why I said, “no more than…” The lady you mentioned is from Iran which is Shia and far less open than, say, the Sufi…
Dress?
You dress according to the custom of the congregation…visit Beth Jacob and you’ll be provided with a yarmulka if you don’t already have one…
@@
August 19th, 2010
5:15 pm
AmVet:
Looking at the first two in your link, they both killed themselves. One in prison and the other before being indicted.
To them, I would say…
thank you.
md
August 19th, 2010
5:15 pm
We still debating “right” vs “appropriate”??
We have the right to burn the flag………appropriate??
We have the right to protest at military funerals……appropriate??
We have the right to call each other names……appropriate??
We have the right to fly the confederate flag…….appropriate??
etc, etc…………
Rafe Hollister
August 19th, 2010
5:17 pm
Rafe has left the building, gotta go produce.