Europe shows the result of total insistence on tolerance
The American people, having been put through endless sensitivity training over the past few decades, know offensiveness when they see it. And they see it in the mosque proposed for lower Manhattan.
So, yes, the American people are a bit stunned to find the fingers pointed at themselves when controversy erupts over a $100 million Islamic project just two blocks from where 10 terrorists brought down two 110-story towers in the name of Islam. They don’t find this turning of the sensitivity tables ironic, but outrageous.
They are more than irked to hear the speaker of the House of Representatives suggest that those Americans speaking out against the mosque should be investigated to see who’s bankrolling them, not least since the identities of the mosque’s donors are still being withheld.
They hear lofty talk about tolerance and upholding the First Amendment — or at least part of it — and they think, “The freedom to practice Islam in this country does not hinge on the specific placement of one mosque in downtown New York. That’s not what this is about.”
They find it hard to believe that reputedly moderate Muslims dedicated to “improving Muslim-West relations,” as the Cordoba Initiative group behind this project says it is, would be surprised to learn that Americans’ wound hasn’t scabbed over in nine divisive years. Or think that they can demonstrate good faith by tacking on a 9/11 memorial at the last minute.
In fact, if the Cordoba planners and their supporters understand anything about America in 2010, they will see a country that can’t seem to snap out of an economic downturn, that is underemployed and overextended, where an entire coastline stands to be covered in oil (until it isn’t), where the states are suing the feds over a health care law and the feds are suing a state over an immigration law and everyone is suing everyone else over gay marriage laws, where anti-war protesters are throwing pies in the faces of Democratic senators and flight attendants are cussing out their passengers and taking the emergency chute.
And they will think, maybe this is not the very best moment to gauge the national reserves of tolerance and patience.
The wiser heads among us will think about the ground zero mosque and that immigration law, and their thoughts will turn once again to that place that so often lately has been showing us the future consequences of our present actions: Europe.
They will recall that the political class’ general prescription for everyday Europeans’ misgivings about their substantial Muslim influx has been more insistence on tolerance, more multiculturalism and the dismissal of any concerns to the contrary from polite political conversation.
They will observe that the result in formerly tolerant places like Holland, where a filmmaker and a politician critical of Islam and immigrants were assassinated, and Belgium, where certain immigrant-heavy areas of the capital Brussels and the port city Antwerp are virtual no-go zones for people who look European, has been a spike in the popularity and electoral success of openly anti-immigrant, anti-Islam political parties.
They will note that the failure of political leaders in these countries, and in places like Denmark, Switzerland and even Britain, to deal seriously with popular complaints about the other has not ended the complaints but made them louder and uglier.
And they will conclude that even in America, with a prouder history of assimilation and inclusiveness than Europe has, it would be prudent to meet this outrage with something other than finger-wagging.
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508 comments Add your comment
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:06 pm
The truth
HDB is a racist plain and simple. She tries to make every blog topic about her and how some white guy kept her down. She even once wrote that she never found a job under republican presidents but strangely only found jobs under democrats.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
4:06 pm
HDB
Actually, there is a Southern Baptist congregation in Tripoli, Lebanon!
AmVet
August 19th, 2010
4:07 pm
Sorry, truth. Islam is the one of the three Abrahamic mythologies that I’m not up on…
And unlike many of the far right-wingers, I have no desire to emulate them in any fashion.
But good luck with that one in this country…
The truth
August 19th, 2010
4:07 pm
Grand Forks,
Or he could have been a gay democratic congressman like Barney Frank having young gay pages running around and havingyoung male prostitutes running a gay prostitution ring out of his townhome.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:08 pm
“You are, apparently, an expert in foreign policy so I won’t have to tell you where that was, nor will I need to remind you of the religious beliefs of those who were “cleansed.””
What group of people were “ethnically cleansed” ma’am?
HDB
August 19th, 2010
4:08 pm
The truth August 19th, 2010
3:51 pm
First: the preponderance of Muslims in America are NOT living under sharia…
Second: With the volume of disapproval, wouldn’t you feel disenfranchised?? Every sect has its fringe elements….and I’m not dealing with those!! The Muslims that I have interfaced with denounced what happened at 9/11….and I’ve been welcomed into their mosques as a Christian….and I had no discomfort!!
Third: The woman who was against the mosque being built is against ANY religious shrine being built there! She’s consistent!!
Fourth: Singapore has one of the largest Muslim populations….but it also embraces Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judiasm…..
Fifth: If you are not afraid of the mosque being built…..why not let it be built??
@@ August 19th, 2010
3:50 pm
I think this exerpt from the Washington Post says it best for me:
“The real desecration of the 9/11 site would be to convert it into a monument to intolerance. We Catholics know; we have suffered for our religion, but given the chance we have proven our patriotism. America’s solemn pledge of “liberty and justice for all” belongs on Main Street and not in back alleys.” Anthony M. Stevens-Arroyo
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:09 pm
“Sorry, truth. Islam is the one of the three Abrahamic mythologies that I’m not up on…”
ScamVet is not up on anything.
The truth
August 19th, 2010
4:09 pm
Grand Forks,
HDB also claims that under Clinton the black counties and neighborhoods like Clayton country were at full employment but under Bush unemployment is like 30% now in those same neighborhoods. 19 months into Obama’s presidency its still George Bush’s fault.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:09 pm
The truth
Or he could be like Eric Massa, democrat, who had tickle fights with draft dodgers like ScamVet.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:10 pm
The truth
HDB is not a smart woman. In fact, she claims that only republicans are racists yet democrats who served in the KKK were saints.
Logic is not HDB strong suit.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:12 pm
“First: the preponderance of Muslims in America are NOT living under sharia…”
Oh really HDB?
Sharia in New Jersey: Muslim husband rapes wife, judge sees no sexual assault because Islam forbids
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/sharia-in-new-jersey-muslim-husband-rapes-wife-judge-sees-no-sexual-assault-because-husbands-religio.html
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:13 pm
“I think this exerpt from the Washington Post says it best for me: ‘
So a failing newspaper speaks for you?
HDB
August 19th, 2010
4:13 pm
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:06 pm
The truth
“HDB is a racist plain and simple.” FALSE…nice try again!
“She tries to make every blog topic about her and how some white guy kept her down.” Your words…not mine
“She even once wrote that she never found a job under republican presidents but strangely only found jobs under democrats” That’s true….length of unemployment under Democrats: 90 days….length of unemployment under Republicans: 2 years…..
May not have happened for everyone…but it did me….
Any other questions??
josef nix August 19th, 2010
4:06 pm
WOW!!! Something I didn’t know!! Guess people can’t complain about churches in Arab nations…….Thanks for the heads-up!!
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:16 pm
“FALSE…nice try again!”
Quite a few people say differently.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:16 pm
“That’s true….length of unemployment under Democrats: 90 days….length of unemployment under Republicans: 2 years…..”
You must have bad interviewing skills.
@@
August 19th, 2010
4:18 pm
AmVet:
Jeez, hopeless Luddites…
You’re the one who thought the link important enough to drop off.
I seriously doubt that it’s important enough that I should go to the trouble.
You want me to see it, fix it.
————————————————————-
HDB:
We Catholics know; we have suffered for our religion
Old wounds vs fresh wounds.
HDB
August 19th, 2010
4:19 pm
Grand Forks August 19th, 2010
4:10 pm
Logic is not HDB strong suit. – Quite false….had to take logic to graduate from college!! Required for my job…so I’m quite strong in logic…AND fact!!
Did you note what I said: the PREPONDERANCE of Muslims in America are NOT living under sharia…
Definition of preponderance: majority: a large number or the majority
- dominance or superiority: dominance or superiority in force, importance, or influence
…and the quote speaks volumes….
Reboot your computer…..
Linda
August 19th, 2010
4:21 pm
This building WILL include a mosque. They have been having prayers there since last year.
It IS so close to Ground Zero that it was “heavily damaged by debris” from the bombing of the towers.
The issue is not the Constitution. No one is trying to change it.
The first issue is whether the mosque SHOULD be built there. That is up to the people of NYC. Even tho it’s already been approved by the Community Board 1’s financial district committee, it can still be legally stopped.
The next question is if it CAN be built. I don’t think that they will be able to have the necessary materials delivered or be able to find construction workers from NY, Conn. or NJ.
The most important question is why is Obama’s State Dept. “SPONSORING a good-will mission trip to the Middle East” for the mosque imam Abdul Rauf which includes stops in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain & Qatar to “improve understanding about Muslim communities in the US?” What a coincidence!
A London-based Arabic-language newspaper that interviewed Mr. Rauf reported that he would collect money from Muslim & Arab nations around the world raising the possibility that the Obama adm. is helping him build contacts in oil-rich countries to build the mosque.
Good to know exactly where he stands.
HDB
August 19th, 2010
4:22 pm
@@ August 19th, 2010
4:18 pm
“Old wounds vs fresh wounds” – does it matter the age….if someone’s been HURT!! In some cases, the wounds have YET to heal!! If you keep picking at a scab, the wound is always fresh, isn’t it??
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:24 pm
“Quite false….had to take logic to graduate from college!! Required for my job…so I’m quite strong in logic…AND fact!!”
Thanks for reiterating my point, ma’am.
“Did you note what I said: the PREPONDERANCE of Muslims in America are NOT living under sharia…”
Are you “most muslims?” NOPE
“Reboot your computer…..”
You’re not a smart woman, HDB.
HDB
August 19th, 2010
4:25 pm
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:16 pm
“FALSE…nice try again!”
Quite a few people say differently.
What some say…and what the truth is…is a different commodity! If I constantly worried about the negatives people have stated about me, I wouldn’t have achieved the positives!!
As we say in the islands: NO WORRIES, MON!!
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:25 pm
“If you keep picking at a scab, the wound is always fresh, isn’t it??”
Ah, you mean like what you do on a daily basis.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
4:26 pm
HDB
I couldn’t resist! A Lebanese-American (Baptist) colleague told me about that when he was on his tour of the “old country.”
Seriously, though, the presence of Christians in predominantly Muslim countries goes back a long, long way (to the time of the Apostles) and in some they are persecuted and in others have full liberties. Even in Iraq, Sadam henchman Tariq Azziz was a nominal Christian. Few people are aware of it, but Bahrain’s ambassador to the United States Houda Nonoo is Jewish.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:27 pm
“What some say…and what the truth is…is a different commodity!’
But you don’t speak truth, only opinion. Hence that’s why you never back anything up.
“If I constantly worried about the negatives people have stated about me, I wouldn’t have achieved the positives!!”
Which must not be much since you said you only had a job under Democrat presidents.
“As we say in the islands: NO WORRIES, MON!!’
But you’re not on an island. Well, I take that back, you’re on fantasy island.
@@
August 19th, 2010
4:27 pm
HDB:
Who’s picking at the scab? New Yorkers are wearing the scabs.
@@
August 19th, 2010
4:27 pm
My posts are misappearing.
Jefferson
August 19th, 2010
4:27 pm
Linda, I am sure for money you can get anything in NYC.
HDB
August 19th, 2010
4:28 pm
Grand Forks August 19th, 2010
4:24 pm
I was LOGICAL BEFORE I went to school; the course sharpened my skillset!!
Logic question for you GF: If God had meant for grass to be CUT, why did he tell it to grow??
(Got a “A” for this one…..and I didn’t need to go to class for the answer!)
AmVet
August 19th, 2010
4:28 pm
http://911review.org/Alex/Republican_Pedophiles.html
Rafe Hollister
August 19th, 2010
4:29 pm
Disinfranchised is the most overused word in the Dem dictionary.
The American people were disinfranchised by Obamacare. They were disinfranchised by the suit against Arizona. They were disinfranchised by the Stimulus/Porkulus do nothing constructive bill.
The Dems would like to disinfranchise the people by forcing them to accept Amnesty, Card Check, and Cap and Tax. I am tired of being disinfranchised, how about you HDB?
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:29 pm
“Who’s picking at the scab? New Yorkers are wearing the scabs.”
A: Muslims, Obama
B: Yes, and most NYorkers don’t want the mosque built near ground zero.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
4:30 pm
The Imam of the Cordoba Center is Sufi…someone posted a link to Sufism earlier here. When people want to know where the “moderate” Muslims are, there is the place to look.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:30 pm
“(Got a “A” for this one…..and I didn’t need to go to class for the answer!)”
Like I said, you’re none too bright.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:31 pm
AmVet @ 4:28
Guess you’re looking for new members for your next NAMBLA meeting.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:31 pm
Rafe Hollister
Damn straight!
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:32 pm
“I was LOGICAL BEFORE I went to school; the course sharpened my skillset!!”
Uh huh, you might want to sharpen up on your grammar, ma’am.
HDB
August 19th, 2010
4:32 pm
@@ August 19th, 2010
4:27 pm
Not denying that…but screaming against Muslims’ desire to build a community center that contains a mosque is picking at scabs that NEED healing! The center is to be opened to all faiths…but those who use the center must abide by certain Muslim traditions (NOT SHARIA!! Let’s stop that NOW!)….
Let’s soften the volume…..and work towards healing and resolution! I wouldn’t want to solve a problem like this with all the noise being generated now!!
@@
August 19th, 2010
4:33 pm
Geez, AmVet…that’s the same old garbage you’ve been linking to for years. You used to bring it forth as HUGE.
You hang onto it because……………..?
You like reading about it?
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:34 pm
“Not denying that…but screaming against Muslims’ desire to build a community center that contains a mosque”
A COMMUNITY CENTER THAT CONTAINS A MOSQUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:35 pm
“Geez, AmVet…that’s the same old garbage you’ve been linking to for years. You used to bring it forth as HUGE.”
Yeah, ScamVet isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed.
problem solved
August 19th, 2010
4:35 pm
Nix…years ago as a young GI stationed out of Wiesbaden, Germany I took a MATS flight to Oslo where my grandfather was born, after enjoying all the scenic splendor that is Norway I ventured to Stockholm, and then boarded a train to Copenhagen. When I arrived in copenhagen…No hotel rooms were to be found…so I went to the closest travel agency to arrange a flight back. The pretty Dane behind the counter asked me how I had enjoyed my stay in her country. I explained how I had just arrived, but could find no place to stay. Anyhow the bottom line is she took me to her parents home, where they put me up for four nights…took me out to places no tourist could ever find. And it ended with the warmest of feelings…The young lady and I still exchange Xmas cards.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:35 pm
“You like reading about it?”
NAMBLA, @@. He’s recruiting new members.
says the kettle to the pot
August 19th, 2010
4:35 pm
“But you don’t speak truth, only opinion. Hence that’s why you never back anything up.”
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:36 pm
“I wouldn’t want to solve a problem like this with all the noise being generated now!!”
Not to worry, HDB, you’re not.
HDB
August 19th, 2010
4:36 pm
Rafe Hollister August 19th, 2010
4:29 pm
Disinfranchised is the most overused word in the Dem dictionary.
(May be…but it’s an accurate description……)
The American people were disinfranchised by Republican opposition. Hispanics and Americans of color were disinfranchised by SB 1070 in Arizona. Americans were disinfranchised by the lack of consensus on job creation.
Fixed your typos……..
I am also tired of being disinfranchised, Rafe!!
@@
August 19th, 2010
4:37 pm
HDB:
Let’s soften the volume…..and work towards healing and resolution! I wouldn’t want to solve a problem like this with all the noise being generated now!!
Based on your posts…the ones I’ve read here…you haven’t healed yet. How long is this gonna take?
I don’t think the mosque is going up anytime soon. Now is the time to solve the problem…not after. Something or someone has gotta give. New Yorkers have given.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:38 pm
“The American people were disinfranchised by Republican opposition. ”
Again with spelling, HDB. Geez, grab a dictionary.
“Hispanics and Americans of color were disinfranchised by SB 1070 in Arizona.”
Not the legal ones.
“Americans were disinfranchised by the lack of consensus on job creation.”
????????????????????
“Fixed your typos……..”
With bad grammar?
“I am also tired of being disinfranchised, Rafe!!”
I’m tired of your rants and misspelled words.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
4:39 pm
“How long is this gonna take?”
When reparations are handed out.
josef nix
August 19th, 2010
4:39 pm
“A COMMUNITY CENTER THAT CONTAINS A MOSQUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
From the redwood forests to the Gulf Stream waters this great land of ours has thousands of community centers affiliated with religious organizations/congregations of every stripe…
HDB
August 19th, 2010
4:39 pm
Fom the Washington Examiner (Gene Healy): The description of the “mosque”:
From all the caterwauling, you’d think the Park51 group planned to fashion a mock Kaaba out of trade center ashes and mount it atop the wreckage. But you can’t see Ground Zero from the Park51 site — it’s separated by two canyonlike city blocks, occupying the former site of a Burlington Coat Factory. “Hallowed ground,” indeed.
The plans include building a large mosque — and a 500-seat theater, swimming pool and food court — which makes calling it a “mosque” just slightly more accurate than calling a YMCA a “church.”
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/_Mosque_-debate-is-a-red-herring-500293-100810999.html#ixzz0×5PwfzEB