Europe shows the result of total insistence on tolerance
The American people, having been put through endless sensitivity training over the past few decades, know offensiveness when they see it. And they see it in the mosque proposed for lower Manhattan.
So, yes, the American people are a bit stunned to find the fingers pointed at themselves when controversy erupts over a $100 million Islamic project just two blocks from where 10 terrorists brought down two 110-story towers in the name of Islam. They don’t find this turning of the sensitivity tables ironic, but outrageous.
They are more than irked to hear the speaker of the House of Representatives suggest that those Americans speaking out against the mosque should be investigated to see who’s bankrolling them, not least since the identities of the mosque’s donors are still being withheld.
They hear lofty talk about tolerance and upholding the First Amendment — or at least part of it — and they think, “The freedom to practice Islam in this country does not hinge on the specific placement of one mosque in downtown New York. That’s not what this is about.”
They find it hard to believe that reputedly moderate Muslims dedicated to “improving Muslim-West relations,” as the Cordoba Initiative group behind this project says it is, would be surprised to learn that Americans’ wound hasn’t scabbed over in nine divisive years. Or think that they can demonstrate good faith by tacking on a 9/11 memorial at the last minute.
In fact, if the Cordoba planners and their supporters understand anything about America in 2010, they will see a country that can’t seem to snap out of an economic downturn, that is underemployed and overextended, where an entire coastline stands to be covered in oil (until it isn’t), where the states are suing the feds over a health care law and the feds are suing a state over an immigration law and everyone is suing everyone else over gay marriage laws, where anti-war protesters are throwing pies in the faces of Democratic senators and flight attendants are cussing out their passengers and taking the emergency chute.
And they will think, maybe this is not the very best moment to gauge the national reserves of tolerance and patience.
The wiser heads among us will think about the ground zero mosque and that immigration law, and their thoughts will turn once again to that place that so often lately has been showing us the future consequences of our present actions: Europe.
They will recall that the political class’ general prescription for everyday Europeans’ misgivings about their substantial Muslim influx has been more insistence on tolerance, more multiculturalism and the dismissal of any concerns to the contrary from polite political conversation.
They will observe that the result in formerly tolerant places like Holland, where a filmmaker and a politician critical of Islam and immigrants were assassinated, and Belgium, where certain immigrant-heavy areas of the capital Brussels and the port city Antwerp are virtual no-go zones for people who look European, has been a spike in the popularity and electoral success of openly anti-immigrant, anti-Islam political parties.
They will note that the failure of political leaders in these countries, and in places like Denmark, Switzerland and even Britain, to deal seriously with popular complaints about the other has not ended the complaints but made them louder and uglier.
And they will conclude that even in America, with a prouder history of assimilation and inclusiveness than Europe has, it would be prudent to meet this outrage with something other than finger-wagging.
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508 comments Add your comment
saywhat?
August 19th, 2010
8:47 am
” I’m a conservative, and I’m scared of Muslims. Everybody else needs to be scared too, while I cower here, shaking like a little girl, and wet myself.”
Sounds like a great basis for living life, guys, but I think I will stick with faith in the Constitution.
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2010
8:52 am
Kyle,
Your comparing Muslims in Europe to Muslims here is the old apples to oranges argument You talk about “no go” areas? When was the last time you took a stroll in the “hood”? And your feeling unwelcome in the “hood” here has nothing to do with immigrants, but economic deprivation. Europe might have socially liberal policies but those liberal policies do not extend immigrants. Discrimination against even lawful immigrants in Europe is blatant and in many places, not even illegal. Small wonder that there is a lot of resentment among immigrant communities, not just Muslims. As a result, many immigrants are restricted to menial, low paying jobs and that process is repeated with their children. Essentially, economic deprivation leads to the very conditions you speak about in European attitudes towards immigrants in general, not just Muslims. On the other hand, most Muslim immigrants and citizens in this country, are well educated and earn above average incomes.
Lets be clear about one thing: Muslims and American are not two separate terms. It amazes me that in all these debates where people say things like “Muslims need to be more aware of American sensitivities about 9/11 in regards to this mosque”. Excuse me? The very Muslims they are talking about are American citizens like you and me. It shocks me that conservatives who keep harping about defending the constitution are more than happy to trample it when it suits their selfish needs. This mosque (actually a community center with a mosque) is a local issue. They received all their necessary permits from the city of New York. A smaller, dedicated mosque already exists a few blocks away from the proposed site (a little over 2 blocks from Ground Zero) and has been there for many, many years. This only became an issue because of politicians needing to score a few selfish points and why let the constitution get in the way, right?
Yes, America NOW has a great tradition of assimilation. You seem to forget that not very long ago, many minorities and immigrants had problems buying homes in certain areas. Jews and Catholics had problems building synagogues and churches. So don’t pat yourself too hard on the back.
CrazyInGA
August 19th, 2010
9:04 am
You people are the biggest nutcases on the planet. If this country collapse from within, it will be do to people who don’t have a clue what tolerance, forgiveness, love, understanding means and it’s not because of any religious teaching (Islam or Christianity). The people who are against this mosque don’t understand the meaning of forgiveness; it will continue to eat them up inside until they can learn to forgive and move on.
They should remember these words: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.
Jefferson
August 19th, 2010
9:06 am
I guess the idea of New York taking care of New York is not popular with Kyle, as he keeps bringing this up.
ganole
August 19th, 2010
9:08 am
On Patroll, you have a distorted view of Christianity. Please allow me to apologize for whoever influenced you that way.
dw
August 19th, 2010
9:09 am
To you “tolerant” libs,
Kyle, in my opinion, is trying to warn you that other “civilized” places started out with the good intentions of being tolerant of Islam, but once established, those same Islamic individuals show blatant intolerance of others. So don’t be surprised once Islam is the majority, that tolerance of you will be a thing of the past. From what I hear (i.e. i’m no expert) Islam is not tolerant of non-Muslims.
I’m speaking of various sources stating that the Koran speaks negatively about infidels.
Does the Koran speak of being against the infidels and to what extent? If a good Muslim follows the Koran explicitly, and If the Koran speaks to be intolerant of infidels, then when the U.S. is dominanted by good Muslims, what is life going to be like for non-Muslims. History shows it is not to good. Now some will argue it can’t happen here. I think you are relying on those same Muslims to view the Constitution as a larger authority than the Koran. Good luck with that. So what is a good solution, i have no earthly idea. To those who speak that Christianity and Islam both speak to hating and killing in its name. What i’ve seen in the Bible (especially New Testament) does not speak of hating and mistreating others. A person acting true to the Bible is going to “love their neighbor as yourself”. I can’t claim i’ve seen every verse, so see if you can find some in the New Testament that speaks of hating others. Good luck.
ButtHead
August 19th, 2010
9:12 am
All those in favor of the mosque please move to Mecca for a year before you make a decision. Oh wait the intolerance of Islam will NOT let a NON MUSLIN even walk in Mecca. No non Muslim is aloud in a temple or it will be dirtied by the impure non-Muslims. What a tolerant and peaceful “religion” NOT!!!!!!!
Gator Joe
August 19th, 2010
9:15 am
Kyle,
Let’s see if I follow your, and the logic of some of your followers, people claiming to be Muslims have committed atrocities, especially on 9/ll, therefore Muslims wishing to practice their culture and religion here in American should not be permitted to do so, despite what our Constitution says. So, according to your logic, people claiming to be Christians have committed atrocities, especially during the Holocaust and the Inquisition, therefore Christians wishing to practice their religion should not be permitted to do so.
What’s next for the Right Wing, amend the Constitution’s first amendment to exclude certain religions, or races?
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2010
9:22 am
dw August 19th, 2010 9:09 am SAID: To you “tolerant” libs,
Kyle, in my opinion, is trying to warn you that other “civilized” places started out with the good intentions of being tolerant of Islam, but once established, those same Islamic individuals show blatant intolerance of others. So don’t be surprised once Islam is the majority, that tolerance of you will be a thing of the past. From what I hear (i.e. i’m no expert) Islam is not tolerant of non-Muslims.
I’m speaking of various sources stating that the Koran speaks negatively about infidels.
Does the Koran speak of being against the infidels and to what extent?.
CHRIS SAYS: dw, have you read the OLD TESTAMENT??? You will find plenty of bigotry, intolerance and violence against “unbelievers” there too. PLUS, you seem to forget Christianity’s own bloody history against “unbelievers”. How many millions have Christians killed and how many civilizations have Christians destroyed, all in the name of Christ? Did anyone ever teach you about throwing stones when you live in a glass house. OR maybe you should read the NEW TESTAMENT more carefully about being the one to cast the first stone!
This debate isn’t about which religious myth is right. This is a debate about the religious freedom to practice one’s beliefs in this this country.
cindy
August 19th, 2010
9:22 am
To (try to) quote Jon Stewart:
“You *could* build a playground right next to a Catholic church…but should you?”
Enjoy!
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/mon-august-16-2010-emma-thompson
Kristen
August 19th, 2010
9:25 am
I would like a good investigative reporter to ask the Muslim victims’ families how they feel about the mosque. Until then, this New York mosque story is up for grabs to anyone looking to exploit it.
Samad Afridi
Ashraf Ahmad
Shabbir Ahmad (45 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and 3 children)
Umar Ahmad
Azam Ahsan
Ahmed Ali
Tariq Amanullah (40 years old; Fiduciary Trust Co.; ICNA website team member; leaves wife and 2 children)
Touri Bolourchi (69 years old; United Airlines #175; a retired nurse from Tehran)
Salauddin Ahmad Chaudhury
Abdul K. Chowdhury (30 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Mohammad S. Chowdhury (39 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and child born 2 days after the attack)
Jamal Legesse Desantis
Ramzi Attallah Douani (35 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
SaleemUllah Farooqi
Syed Fatha (54 years old; Pitney Bowes)
Osman Gani
Mohammad Hamdani (50 years old)
Salman Hamdani (NYPD Cadet)
Aisha Harris (21 years old; General Telecom)
Shakila Hoque (Marsh & McLennan)
Nabid Hossain
Shahzad Hussain
Talat Hussain
Mohammad Shah Jahan (Marsh & McLennan)
Yasmeen Jamal
Mohammed Jawarta (MAS security)
Arslan Khan Khakwani
Asim Khan
Ataullah Khan
Ayub Khan
Qasim Ali Khan
Sarah Khan (32 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Taimour Khan (29 years old; Karr Futures)
Yasmeen Khan
Zahida Khan
Badruddin Lakhani
Omar Malick
Nurul Hoque Miah (36 years old)
Mubarak Mohammad (23 years old)
Boyie Mohammed (Carr Futures)
Raza Mujtaba
Omar Namoos
Mujeb Qazi
Tarranum Rahim
Ehtesham U. Raja (28 years old)
Ameenia Rasool (33 years old)
Naveed Rehman
Yusuf Saad
Rahma Salie & unborn child (28 years old; American Airlines #11; wife of Michael Theodoridis; 7 months pregnant)
Shoman Samad
Asad Samir
Khalid Shahid (25 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald; engaged to be married in November)
Mohammed Shajahan (44 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
Naseema Simjee (Franklin Resources Inc.’s Fiduciary Trust)
Jamil Swaati
Sanober Syed
Robert Elias Talhami (40 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Michael Theodoridis (32 years old; American Airlines #11; husband of Rahma Salie)
W. Wahid
quicksand?
August 19th, 2010
9:27 am
@ Bob,
And any others confused on this; do not be misled…
And just so everyone understands…
Muslims worship Allah, which is NOT the same Yahweh Elohim of the Holy Bible; the Triune GOD that most Christians do (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).
The Koran states that Allah has no sons and is a single one (look it up S. 112, 1-4) therefore (this is just 1 of many examples as to why) they cannot be the same being.
ryan v
August 19th, 2010
9:31 am
It’s a community center. It has basketball courts and a culinary school. It’s 2 NYC blocks away (which means pretty far in NYC and not at all visible) from the WTC site. It’s an empty burlington coats factory building. There are two Christian churches directly next to the WTC site. This is all madness and politics. Let sanity reign. We weren’t attacked by Muslims. We were attacked by extremists and terrorists who claim the Muslim religion. It’s like associating all evangelicals with abortion clinic bombers or all Catholics with pedophile priests.
ryan v
August 19th, 2010
9:32 am
It’s not a mosque!
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:36 am
“WHEN SO-CALLED “CHRISTIANS” START SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE RADICAL CHRISTIAN ELEMENTS IN THIS COUNTRY LIKE KKK, CHRISTIAN IDENTITY AND ALL THE OTHER RADICAL “CHRISTIAN” GROUPS???!!!’
The KKK was started by the democrat party, retard, not Christians.
What other radical christian groups? You left wingers are STUPID!
jconservative
August 19th, 2010
9:37 am
Actually Kyle has this 180% wrong. The problem the Euro countries have is that they have laws limiting the economic and social activity of minorities and has a result the minorities have not been absorbed into the national community. The minorities remain a “foreign” minority due to laws from the national government.
This is the big domestic issue debate in Euro-world, should those restraints on minorities be lifted? And their debate is just as hot as our immigration debate.
At present the smart money is on the minorities continuing to be legally classed as “foreign”.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:38 am
Gator Joe
I guess you’d have no problem with the KKK building a center next door to the MLK center, right?
You left wingers are so d@mn stupid. You don’t even realize that muslims are called to kill ANYONE who doesn’t convert. There are no moderate muslims as Rachel Madcow, a lesbian who muslims would gladly kill, says.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:39 am
More bad news for the Obama cult following troglodytes.
Weekly Jobless Claims Post Surprise Jump, Hit 500,000
New U.S. claims for unemployment benefits unexpectedly climbed to a nine-month high last week, yet another setback to the frail economic recovery.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38768328
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:40 am
TIME Poll: Majority Opposes Mosque, Many Distrust Muslims
Opponents of the planned Islamic community center and mosque near Ground Zero in Lower Manhattan have public opinion firmly in their corner. According to a new TIME poll, 61% of respondents oppose the construction of the Park51/Cordoba House project, compared to 26% who support it. More than 70% concur with the premise that proceeding with the plan would be an insult to the victims of the attacks on the World Trade Center. Opposition to the project appears to derive largely from the conviction that the proposed site of the project — just two blocks from Ground Zero, in a building that formerly housed a Burlington Coat Factory outlet — is so close to “hallowed ground,” as President Obama put it.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011799,00.html#ixzz0×3jQVfaY
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:42 am
I said this in 2008 and left wing retards said it would never happen.
Worse Than Carter
WASHINGTON — It is becoming apparent for all to see, that a man who made his name as a community organizer does not have the skills to be President of these United States. Maybe he could develop the requisite skills as a governor. Possibly, he could develop such skills were he to sit in the Senate for a couple of terms. Yet there are delicate sensitivities, the ability to listen, to stick by your guns, occasionally to remain reticent. These are the fundamentals of a leader, and President Barack Obama has demonstrated that he lacks all of them, most notably reticence. I now think it is clear even to Official Washington that President Obama is the worst president of modern times. President Jimmy Carter is redeemed.
http://spectator.org/archives/2010/08/19/worse-than-carter
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2010
9:43 am
r yan v August 19th, 2010 9:31 am SAID: It’s a community center. It has basketball courts and a culinary school. It’s 2 NYC blocks away (which means pretty far in NYC and not at all visible) from the WTC site. It’s an empty burlington coats factory building. There are two Christian churches directly next to the WTC site. This is all madness and politics. Let sanity reign. We weren’t attacked by Muslims. We were attacked by extremists and terrorists who claim the Muslim religion. It’s like associating all evangelicals with abortion clinic bombers or all Catholics with pedophile priests.
CHRIS SAYS: Excellent point. I propose we ask all these idiots to also table a resolution and call for a certain “acceptable” distance be established between Catholic churches or Catholic Community Centers and elementary schools, day-care centers, etc. We need to also protect the sensitivities of all those parents out there who’s children were victims of abuse.
That’s, BTW, is using the same logic being used by the people loudly protesting a project that was already APPROVED by the city of New York. Another point, not counting the terrorists, 300 Muslims where also killed at 9/11. Its pretty convenient that the people protesting this count them in when talking about the 3000 Americans killed there but point out that its Muslims and not Americans building this Community Center several blocks away from Ground Zero.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:44 am
“It has basketball courts and a culinary school. ”
LOL! Yeah, muslims just love them some basketball. I bet it will also feature bomb making, IED 101 and AK-47 for dummies.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:45 am
“There are two Christian churches directly next to the WTC site…..that were there BEFORE the towers fell and had nothing to do with muslims flying planes into them.
Gotta love left wing idiots.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:46 am
“Excellent point. I propose we ask all these idiots to also table a resolution and call for a certain “acceptable” distance be established between Catholic churches or Catholic Community Centers and elementary schools, day-care centers, etc. ”
Huh, I didn’t know nuns hurt kids.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:47 am
“Another point, not counting the terrorists, 300 Muslims where also killed at 9/11.”
Yeah, and some of those being the ones who flew the planes into the towers.
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2010
9:47 am
Grand Forks August 19th, 2010 9:38 am SAID: Gator Joe
I guess you’d have no problem with the KKK building a center next door to the MLK center, right?
You left wingers are so d@mn stupid. You don’t even realize that muslims are called to kill ANYONE who doesn’t convert. There are no moderate muslims as Rachel Madcow, a lesbian who muslims would gladly kill, says.
CHRIS SAYS: The above just shows how ignorant you really are. WOW. Home Schooled? Seeing Muslims and Islam as one monolithic religion is the sure sign of complete ignorance. Maybe you should read this :
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/opinion/17dalrymple.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:47 am
“Americans building this Community Center several blocks away from Ground Zero.”
Construction workers are protesting it.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:50 am
“The above just shows how ignorant you really are.”
Nothing like left wing retard tactics. Instead of saying HOW I am wrong you go and play the ignorant card.
“Home Schooled?”
Nope, private school, b!tch.
“Seeing Muslims and Islam as one monolithic religion is the sure sign of complete ignorance.”
LOL
And no ma’am, I don’t read articles from failing newspapers that trash our troops.
Richard Wood Johnson
August 19th, 2010
9:50 am
Grand Forks, you appear to be very well informed.
In order to attend to this apparent security threat, how much of Manhattan needs to be ethnically cleansed of Muslims, by your reckoning? Would you need to clear everything south of Houston St., Canal St., 42nd, or perhaps the entire island?
And where do you propose to forcibly relocate the Muslims currently residing there?
I would like to hear more about your final solution to this problem.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:51 am
Hey Salzman,
You mean like this peaceful muslim?
Sharia in New Jersey: Muslim husband rapes wife, judge sees no sexual assault because Islam forbids wives to refuse sex
Muhammad said: “If a husband calls his wife to his bed [i.e. to have sexual relation] and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning” (Bukhari 4.54.460).
He also said: “By him in Whose Hand lies my life, a woman can not carry out the right of her Lord, till she carries out the right of her husband. And if he asks her to surrender herself [to him for sexual intercourse] she should not refuse him even if she is on a camel’s saddle” (Ibn Majah 1854).
And now a New Jersey judge sees no evidence that a Muslim committed sexual assault of his wife — not because he didn’t do it, but because he was acting on his Islamic beliefs: “This court does not feel that, under the circumstances, that this defendant had a criminal desire to or intent to sexually assault or to sexually contact the plaintiff when he did. The court believes that he was operating under his belief that it is, as the husband, his desire to have sex when and whether he wanted to, was something that was consistent with his practices and it was something that was not prohibited.”
Luckily, the appellate court overturned this decision, and a Sharia ruling by an American court has not been allowed to stand. This time.
ryan v
August 19th, 2010
9:52 am
Kyle, the fact that obviously racist (or at least xenophobic) people are most loudly defending you should give you pause about your position. The fact anyone from Georgia or Alaska or anywhere is telling NY what to do with their land should give any “conservative” pause.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:53 am
“In order to attend to this apparent security threat, how much of Manhattan needs to be ethnically cleansed of Muslims, by your reckoning?”
Your words ma’am, not mine.
“And where do you propose to forcibly relocate the Muslims currently residing there?”
The majority of muslims live in Brooklyn, ma’am. The WTC mosque is nowhere near where any muslims live.
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2010
9:53 am
Grand Forks August 19th, 2010 9:47 am SAID: “Another point, not counting the terrorists, 300 Muslims where also killed at 9/11.”
Yeah, and some of those being the ones who flew the planes into the towers.
CHRIS SAYS: Based on your logic, all Southern Baptists are racist, all Catholic priests are pedophiles, etc.
You know what they say, hate is an emotion that consumes the hater first. So you want me to feel sorry for you. Time to get a refill of that Zoloft prescription?
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:54 am
“Kyle, the fact that obviously racist (or at least xenophobic) people are most loudly defending you should give you pause about your position.’
LOL! I love it when left wing retards say that a religion is a race. Moron.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:55 am
“Based on your logic, all Southern Baptists are racist, all Catholic priests are pedophiles, etc.’
Your words, ma’am, not mine. Go sell stupid somewhere else.
“So you want me to feel sorry for you.”
You must be under the false impression that I give a crap what you think about me.
“Time to get a refill of that Zoloft prescription?”
Ask your pharmacist, ma’am.
Chris Salzmann
August 19th, 2010
9:56 am
Grand Forks August 19th, 2010 9:53 am SAID: The majority of muslims live in Brooklyn, ma’am. The WTC mosque is nowhere near where any muslims live.
CHRIS SAYS: So, go amend the constitution that says that everyone can only worship within a certain distance from where they live.
You are a sorry example of a human being and a bigot to boot. Nice going. Planning to join the KKK anytime soon. With all the hate and bigotry you carry around, you would make a great recruit.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
9:58 am
“So, go amend the constitution that says that everyone can only worship within a certain distance from where they live.”
Your words ma’am, not mine.
“You are a sorry example of a human being and a bigot to boot.”
Like I said, when left wing retards can’t debate they play the bigot card.
I predict Chris will next call me: nazi, racist, homophobe……..
“Planning to join the KKK anytime soon.”
No, I’m not a democrat. Only democrats can join.
“With all the hate and bigotry you carry around, you would make a great recruit.”
But I’d have to become a DNC member like you and Robert Sheets Byrd.
killerj
August 19th, 2010
9:58 am
infadel,how dare you speak of this subject! let the stoning begin!
Kyle Wingfield
August 19th, 2010
10:00 am
I have mostly had my say on this topic and can’t respond to all the comments, so I’m going to limit my additional comments to the following:
About Muslims and Europe: I was not addressing why Muslims are marginalized in Europe. My point was simply this: In debates like this, marginalizing one point of view by attacking the people who hold it only causes resentment among that group, and that is a bad and potentially dangerous thing. (In fact, I would wager that the same people who are arguing against me here would agree wholeheartedly with that statement if I made it in defense of the mosque.) In Europe, such marginalization has pushed normally moderate people toward extremist parties. And with few exceptions, the supporters of the mosque project — I’m not talking about the developers themselves, but politicians and pundits and citizens — have sought to marginalize and delegitimize mosque opponents as bigots or opponents of the Constitution.
Which brings me to the second point I’ll make. The idea that the First Amendment’s protection of religious freedom guarantees any religious group the absolute right to locate a worship center, or other facility, anywhere it wants regardless of popular sentiment is simply untrue both in spirit and in practice. Zoning restrictions and NIMBY concerns (e.g., about parking or noise) often come into play. As long as there is no blanket ban or overly burdensome restriction against the building of mosques, for instance, this is all part of compromise in a society whose members have overlapping but not identical priorities and concerns.
The particular concern in this case may not end up prevailing. But for some of you to suggest that they shouldn’t be raised in the first place, or that the fact that they’ve been raised proves some people are pure bigots, is ludicrous.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
10:00 am
Fro Salzman:
History Of The Democrats And The KKK…..(Why the Democrats started the KKK)
The original targets of the Ku Klux Klan were Republicans, both black and white, according to a new television program and book, which describe how the Democrats started the KKK and for decades harassed the GOP with lynchings and threats.
An estimated 3,446 blacks and 1,297 whites died at the end of KKK ropes from 1882 to 1964.
The documentation has been assembled by David Barton of Wallbu More..ilders and published in his book “Setting the Record Straight: American History in Black & White,” which reveals that not only did the Democrats work hand-in-glove with the Ku Klux Klan for generations, they started the KKK and endorsed its mayhem.
“Of all forms of violent intimidation, lynchings were by far the most effective,” Barton said in his book. “Republicans often led the efforts to pass federal anti-lynching laws and their platforms consistently called for a ban on lynching. Democrats successfully blocked those bills and their platforms never did condemn lynchings.”
Further, the first grand wizard of the KKK was honored at the 1868 Democratic National Convention, no Democrats voted for the 14th Amendment to grant citizenship to former slaves and, to this day, the party website ignores those decades of racism, he said.
“Although it is relatively unreported today, historical documents are unequivocal that the Klan was established by Democrats and that the Klan played a prominent role in the Democratic Party,” Barton writes in his book. “In fact, a 13-volume set of congressional investigations from 1872 conclusively and irrefutably documents that fact.
“The Klan terrorized black Americans through murders and public floggings; relief was granted only if individuals promised not to vote for Republican tickets, and violation of this oath was punishable by death,” he said. “Since the Klan targeted Republicans in general, it did not limit its violence simply to black Republicans; white Republicans were also included.”
quicksand?
August 19th, 2010
10:01 am
let he who is without sin…cast the first stone
Intown
August 19th, 2010
10:01 am
Are you actually trying to mount a defense for intolerance here? This column, and the hatred and demogogary that pushed this matter as an issue to be kicked around on the national political scene is simply inexcusable. There is no defense to what the right wing is doing. None. This is not Europe. This is not the old world. This is America.
Richard Wood Johnson
August 19th, 2010
10:02 am
The majority of muslims live in Brooklyn. The WTC mosque is nowhere near where any muslims live.
Brooklyn is well within 80 mm mortar range. Are you ok with them living there, potentially able to take out Freedom Tower with such simple, easy-to-acquire weaponry? Would it not be safer to take the pre-emptive step of loading cargo trains full of such individuals to other, less well populated regions?
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
10:03 am
“Would it not be safer to take the pre-emptive step of loading cargo trains full of such individuals to other, less well populated regions?’
The last president to put people in concentration camps was a democrat. Nuff said, ma’am.
JF McNamara
August 19th, 2010
10:04 am
All I can say is Wow, and I think of how sad this article is to me. I’m too young to remember, but I can’t help but think that similar articles were written about Blacks in the 1960’s. It’s basically saying that its ok to be intolerant of others as long as you have some proof where it can go wrong?
What about the millions of places where things are going okay? What about the places where Muslims live in peace? There are numerous Muslims in Atlanta and every other major city in the U.S. (including N.Y.C.), and they live among us peacefully. You conveniently overlooked them and every other good situation and focused on the bad situations to evoke fear and justify how you feel. The good situations overwhelm the bad by a very, very large proportion. The media just doesn’t focus on them becuase there is nothing to focus on.
To be absolutely blunt, I don’t always agree with what you write, but I do give merit to your point of view. Today, I can’t do that. I keep replacing the word Black or Gay or Woman or Italian or Jew or Irishman or Handicapped or American Indian or Asian or Hispanic with Muslim. In my opinion, this is just a really sad, fear based point of view.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
10:05 am
“What about the places where Muslims live in peace? ”
You mean like Iran, Pakistan and Syria? LOL
“In my opinion, this is just a really sad, fear based point of view.”
Guess you missed 911.
Grand Forks
August 19th, 2010
10:06 am
“I’m too young to remember, but I can’t help but think that similar articles were written about Blacks in the 1960’s.”
My memory may be fuzzy, but I don’t remember MLK flying planes into buildings in the name of Jesus.
ButtHead
August 19th, 2010
10:10 am
Kristen, how much more one sided can you be? How about ask the remaining 3,000 people who were not Muslim what they think…. Or is that to much to ask?
ryan v
August 19th, 2010
10:11 am
Kyle, what we’re delimiting are folks trumping this beyond what it is. It’s not near the WTC (not visible and not easily accessible), it’s a local zoning matter and has been approved by the local community, it’s NOT a mosque, and it has nothing to do with 9/11. You say folks are raising issues with fair concerns and they are being attacked and THAT is marginalization. I think the rhetoric and the actual facts about the site suggest those concerns aren’t very fair at all. Since when is defending the minority from an angry mob an act of marginalization against the mob?
ButtHead
August 19th, 2010
10:13 am
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html