Europe shows the result of total insistence on tolerance
The American people, having been put through endless sensitivity training over the past few decades, know offensiveness when they see it. And they see it in the mosque proposed for lower Manhattan.
So, yes, the American people are a bit stunned to find the fingers pointed at themselves when controversy erupts over a $100 million Islamic project just two blocks from where 10 terrorists brought down two 110-story towers in the name of Islam. They don’t find this turning of the sensitivity tables ironic, but outrageous.
They are more than irked to hear the speaker of the House of Representatives suggest that those Americans speaking out against the mosque should be investigated to see who’s bankrolling them, not least since the identities of the mosque’s donors are still being withheld.
They hear lofty talk about tolerance and upholding the First Amendment — or at least part of it — and they think, “The freedom to practice Islam in this country does not hinge on the specific placement of one mosque in downtown New York. That’s not what this is about.”
They find it hard to believe that reputedly moderate Muslims dedicated to “improving Muslim-West relations,” as the Cordoba Initiative group behind this project says it is, would be surprised to learn that Americans’ wound hasn’t scabbed over in nine divisive years. Or think that they can demonstrate good faith by tacking on a 9/11 memorial at the last minute.
In fact, if the Cordoba planners and their supporters understand anything about America in 2010, they will see a country that can’t seem to snap out of an economic downturn, that is underemployed and overextended, where an entire coastline stands to be covered in oil (until it isn’t), where the states are suing the feds over a health care law and the feds are suing a state over an immigration law and everyone is suing everyone else over gay marriage laws, where anti-war protesters are throwing pies in the faces of Democratic senators and flight attendants are cussing out their passengers and taking the emergency chute.
And they will think, maybe this is not the very best moment to gauge the national reserves of tolerance and patience.
The wiser heads among us will think about the ground zero mosque and that immigration law, and their thoughts will turn once again to that place that so often lately has been showing us the future consequences of our present actions: Europe.
They will recall that the political class’ general prescription for everyday Europeans’ misgivings about their substantial Muslim influx has been more insistence on tolerance, more multiculturalism and the dismissal of any concerns to the contrary from polite political conversation.
They will observe that the result in formerly tolerant places like Holland, where a filmmaker and a politician critical of Islam and immigrants were assassinated, and Belgium, where certain immigrant-heavy areas of the capital Brussels and the port city Antwerp are virtual no-go zones for people who look European, has been a spike in the popularity and electoral success of openly anti-immigrant, anti-Islam political parties.
They will note that the failure of political leaders in these countries, and in places like Denmark, Switzerland and even Britain, to deal seriously with popular complaints about the other has not ended the complaints but made them louder and uglier.
And they will conclude that even in America, with a prouder history of assimilation and inclusiveness than Europe has, it would be prudent to meet this outrage with something other than finger-wagging.
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508 comments Add your comment
Zen
August 18th, 2010
9:52 pm
Southern Comfort 9:47pm
The Spanish were about to start another Inquisition against the Muslims after that bomb in Madrid – what do you expect the local Muslim leaders to say?
If you think anyone in Pakistan, Saudi or Iran listens to a Muslim in Spain then you are insane and in denial.
Why do Muslim posters always hide behind Western names on Western media comment boards? Frightened?
Stop making excuses. The Mosque in NY is a bad move – admit it.
Southern Comfort
August 18th, 2010
9:52 pm
Zen
So you’re saying that Saudi society is equal to the US? Saudi recognizes Islam as their official religion. Does the US have a state sanctioned official religion? Saudi does not recognize other religions nor do they recognize the right to religious expression for religions other than Islam. Is that the way the 1st Amendment reads?
The people building the community center are Americans. Their financing may come from Saudi. Our financing for our military comes from China. So by your reasoning, the Chinese army is fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, right? That’s who’s funding them.
barking frog
August 18th, 2010
9:54 pm
Josef could it be that our cherokee blood is
chi iraqi?
Pete
August 18th, 2010
9:56 pm
josef nix: If you netflix there is an interesting documentary on the French Indian Wars.
Southern Comfort: To quote Monty Python, “No one expected the Spanish Inquisition”. Here is a good site to start at. Google Dhimmitude and it will take you to some interesting reading.
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/
RW-(the original)
August 18th, 2010
9:57 pm
So buzz off RW unless you have something of importance to say!
See that’s the problem, problem. I don’t think for a second you have the ability to determine what’s important. I will be “buzzing off” for a half hour now though. Thanks for the suggestion.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
9:57 pm
“I’m sorry, but I can’t read”
Yep CJ, we all already knew that one, ma’am.
problem solved
August 18th, 2010
9:58 pm
idee fixe is neither a thought nor a belief..but a “fixed idea something accepted without question and not open to discussion
Well why didn’t you say so JOSEF…Although you’ve never been in the military you know the protocol, and I don’t? Although you claim to be a liberal…You claim not to be a democrat, and you can’t stand the most liberal of the current senate. In other words you are a TOOL!
By the way Josef you never did answer my question…OOPS time for you to run!
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:00 pm
“I didn’t realize what some of you have picked up so quickly from listening to Fox News”
LOL, yep it’s ALL Fox News fault for the muslims who killed 3000 people on 911.
Hey Khurram,
How’s bout speaking out against radical islam? How’s bout quit pointing fingers at a news organization and take responsibility for your own insane religion that calls for killing innocent people, raping women and stoning little girls.
Winston
August 18th, 2010
10:01 pm
Erm, Union Jack… You are quoting the New York Sun, a newspaper that was run by Conrad Black and a couple of radical Jews as an objective source on what is the worst area of London to visit? Of course they are going to paint London’s muslims in a bad light, since they cannot kill them or bomb them like they do the muslims in Gaza and Beirut.
Left wing management
August 18th, 2010
10:01 pm
Such a pity, the state that so-called “Conservative” thought has come to. There used to be a time when to be a conservative was to revel in the bold argument, at going slightly against the grain. And here I’m talking about the heyday of Buckley et al.
There’s one of you on the Larry King show right now spouting a perfectly typical non sequitur:
“Why is it that the supporters are focusing on this one building?”
What said conservative is forgetting – it’s a peculiar form of forgetting – is that in her very insistence on arguing against the mosque, she’s doing precisely what she’s accusing her opponents of doing.
This isn’t rigorous thought of the type Buckley and so forth would approve of. Then again, maybe I give him (and old school conservativism) too much credit.
@@
August 18th, 2010
10:03 pm
DANG! Almost home free.
SHANGHAI—A plane crash that killed its lone pilot near the Chinese city of Shenyang on Tuesday appeared to be that of a North Korean jet, reports said, prompting speculation a fighter pilot was fleeing his homeland.
Don't forget
August 18th, 2010
10:05 pm
Europe’s problem isn’t tolerance, it’s segregation. Segregation isn’t really tolerance it’s pseudo tolerance.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:05 pm
“There’s one of you on the Larry King show ”
So YOU’RE one of the 5 people who actually watches that old fart.
Southern Comfort
August 18th, 2010
10:08 pm
Pete
From your link…
We now have the specter of triumphant Islam building a giant mosque mere yards from Ground Zero in New York City where Islamic fanatics, in the name of Allah, destroyed the World Trade Center and the two magnificent towers. The mosque will rise to thirteen or more stories and overlook the blasted hole in the ground that was once a symbol of America’s freedom and technical ingenuity.
Have you been to NY before? Lower Manhattan? If not, google 47-47 Park Place, NY, NY and put the little google guy on the street so you can see the street view. With 12-15 story buildings across the street, there will be almost no view of Ground Zero from that building. They would have to build pretty high up to get a view of the ground as they are two blocks from GZ and there’s another tall building on Barclay St. that they would have to be able to see over.
Now, when the new towers are built, that community center, along with St. Nicholas and other buildings in the area, will sit in the shadows of the new towers. There will be no looming mosque in Lower Manhattan unless they’re secretly planning a building of 30-40 stories.
Zen
August 18th, 2010
10:08 pm
Souther Comfort 9:52
Now you are deploying misdirection in the same way the Saudis do by attacking the US without uniforms.
Saudi Arabian society is attacking the US based on a theological belief system. It is not about comparing the governmental system of Saudi and the US. Saudi Arabia is legallly equal to the US as a sovereign nation, but in no other way. They are an enemy who is too frightened to declare themselves. The same logic drove the Japanese to attack the US without warning. It is called first strike. The Saudis have invented a new version of first strike: Cultural first-strike. Union Jack has kindly added a link to show the effect this has had in London, England.
At least you admit the Saudis are purposefully funding the mosque in NY that is the subject of this story.
To attempt to compare loans from China as intentional Chinese funding of US foreign policy is simply childish if one looks at the situation in North Korea. The Chinese fund the US because it is their biggest export market and they need jobs and growth. So it is not my reasoning that suggest China is intentionally funding the war in Afghanistan, it is your attempt to divert and disrupt with Sophistry. You are protecting the clandestine Islamic invasion of the US.
Anyone decent of the Muslim faith should not support the building of this groteque monument to murder in NY on 911. Anyone visiting the Cordoba centre will rightly be seen as an Al Quaeda and Whabist sympathiser.
You mention the 1st Amendment: Islam will use the 1st Amedment to convert as many people to their religion as are needed to abolish the constitution of the United States and replace it with Sharia law. You do not read much do you. This is an abuse of the 1st Amedment and as such is un-constitutional. The Constitution can not be used to abolish itself. That would be tautological.
AmVet
August 18th, 2010
10:13 pm
SoCo, thanks for correcting that misinformation.
Khurram, in spite of the irrational haters here and the other places you mentioned, ALL of us Americans are in this together.
And we Jews, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, atheists and every other stripe and color will never cower to the worst of these blood thirsty agents of cowardly hatred and blind injustice. Whether in Manhattan or Marietta.
Selah. (From Hebrew, “Let those with eyes see and with ears hear”.)
Zen
August 18th, 2010
10:13 pm
Winston 10:01pm
Have you walked down Brick Lane or Bethnal Green High Street at night? Do you even know where that is without googleearth? If you have and survived I know where you are from.
lol
Another ‘blame the Jews’ comment; that is typical.
Do you actually question the truth of the no-go areas in London? Ow wait a minute you are the revisionist who believes Muslims founded the US.
Put down the krak pipe homie.
Southern Comfort
August 18th, 2010
10:15 pm
At least you admit the Saudis are purposefully funding the mosque in NY that is the subject of this story.
I was merely repeating what you said. As far as trying to divert and disrupt, isn’t that the purpose of this whole argument? As I said earlier, I’ll put my faith in the men and women who have pledged to uphold and defend the U.S. Constitution. My faith in G*d lets me know everything will be ok. That’s just the Christian in me… no worries, no fear, all faith.
marko
August 18th, 2010
10:16 pm
I love conservative logic ,ten Saudi Arabians and an Egyptian attacked us on 9/11. Somebody noticed they were all moslems so they decided to attack Bagdad. For the record, if you want to find a church in a Moslem country, try Iraqi. Our Saudi pals want put up with them. Churches in Iraqi, and none in Saudi Arabia. Maybe all Moslems aren’t all alike. As for the downside of tolerating idiots, we don’t need to look to Europe, Just look at the great things itolerance has done for America. Thomas Jefferson once said that if his neighbor worshiped twenty gods, or none, he did’nt pick his pocket or break his arm. No wonder they don’t care much for Jefferson in Texas. Do conservatives know that Jefferson was deist. Do they know that James Madison, Father of the Constitution, opposed capital punishment. Bet they don’t like Madison much in Texas either. I have a great idea. If they try to build a mosque in the sacred Burlington Coat Factory, only two blocks from ground Zero, throw them in prison. If they persist, cut their heads off. That’s what the Saudi’s would do, and don’t we all want to live in a country just like Saudi Arabia.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:17 pm
“Khurram, in spite of the irrational haters here and the other places you mentioned, ALL of us Americans are in this together.”
That coming from a brain dead left winger who calls other people talibaptist, nuts@cks etc.. Yep, BedWet is just full of tolerance. By the way ma’am, we’re NOT in this together. Most of America can’t stand islam and all of it’s hate.
“And we Jews, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, atheists and every other stripe and color will never cower to the worst of these blood thirsty agents of cowardly hatred and blind injustice. ”
You just did, coward.
truthfinder
August 18th, 2010
10:17 pm
OK. Some commission Issued fatwa. I don’t think there is single powerful Imam came out issued fatwa.
Why you need yet another mosque over there. Who is funding it?
Why name it as Cordoba?
Are you doing the same thing a victory mosque , that was done for holy temples in India.
Unless the Imams come out and fight aganist radical Islam, the stones and maimes people and preach tolerance to other religions nothing will improve.
One unrelated message:
I really feel for poor pak people suffering in floods. You should all see pics of babies suffering thro floods. People should donate even it goes to corrupt some of it will go to them.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:19 pm
“SoCo, thanks for correcting that misinformation. ”
Ah yes, the “misinformation” card left wing retards like to play. BedWet doesn’t know that LA is the abbreviation for Louisiana yet she somehow knows all about islam.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:20 pm
Obama the failure needs W.
Mosque supporters beg George W. Bush to come to Obama’s rescue
There’s a new argument emerging among supporters of the Ground Zero mosque. Distressed by President Obama’s waffling on the issue, they’re calling on former President George W. Bush to announce his support for the project, because in this case Bush understands better than Obama the connection between the war on terror and the larger question of America’s relationship with Islam. It’s an extraordinary change of position for commentators who long argued that Bush had done grievous harm to America’s image in the Muslim world and that Obama represented a fresh start for the United States. Nevertheless, they are now seeing a different side of the former president.
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Mosque-supporters-beg-George-W-Bush-to-come-to-Obamas-rescue-100977179.html#ixzz0×0yDhVHu
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:21 pm
Hey ScamVet, explain this, hommie.
Hamas nod for Ground Zero mosque
Terror group’s leader: ‘Have to build it’
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hamas_nod_for_gz_mosque_cSohH9eha8sNZMTDz0VVPI
Khurram
August 18th, 2010
10:21 pm
AmVet, thank you for your kind words.
Winston
August 18th, 2010
10:21 pm
Zen, why would I ever want to walk in those places? I am not saying that they are lily white neighbourhoods, I am simply saying that they are not the worst of the worst and that there are many worse places about. My wife’s parents live in Hammersmith, thankfully far from the places that either you or I have mentioned. I just think that it is disingenuous of you to put forth that the worst places in London are muslim neighbourhoods when we both know full well that there are many more dangerous places that are not primarily muslim.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:22 pm
Grow jobs and shrink government
IT’S NOT happening the way President Obama had planned. Unemployment blew past his 8 percent ceiling and hasn’t looked back. Private sector investment in new jobs and capital has languished. Even the head of the president’s Council of Economic Advisers, Christina Romer, has resigned.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/08/18/grow_jobs_and_shrink_government/
Southern Comfort
August 18th, 2010
10:23 pm
It’s time to call it a night. Guess I need to walk the perimeter to ensure no Muslim extremists have snuck up on my while I was blogging.
Later all!!
Left wing management
August 18th, 2010
10:24 pm
Grand Forks
I watch a lot of old farts. But one thing I don’t watch much of is FOX News, which is nothing but a big … well, you get the idea ..
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:24 pm
“AmVet, thank you for your kind words.”
Yeah, you’ll find the draft dodging BedWet to be an ally for you. She hates America just like muslims.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:25 pm
“But one thing I don’t watch much of is FOX News”
Don’t care what you watch, ma’am. I just love making fun of people like you who rail on Fox because I know it irritates the crap out of you that they are first in everything.
JMT
August 18th, 2010
10:26 pm
An Al-Qaeda regional office in lower Manhatten would be offensive. But I don’t see why a mosque is offensive. Just because Al-Qaeda consists of Muslims doesn’t mean that all Muslims are supporters of Al-Qaeda.
I guess since many Klan members in our history were members of a Christian church, that must mean that all Christians were supporters of the Klan. My goodness, blacks should have protested the building of Christian churchs throughout this great land.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:28 pm
“My goodness, blacks should have protested the building of Christian churchs throughout this great land.”
If that were the case you’d have never seen or heard of MLK. Oh well, I know that one is way over your head.
“I guess since many Klan members in our history were members of a Christian church”
Well, the KKK was founded by the democrat party.
AmVet
August 18th, 2010
10:29 pm
Khurram,you are welcome.
And not to worry my friend, your single beautiful post has more power in it than all of the hateful garbage written here in a month.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:31 pm
“And not to worry my friend, your single beautiful post has more power in it than all of the hateful garbage written here in a month.”
Oh, you mean like the garbage you spew on Kookman’s blog on an hourly basis? Yeah, BedWet, you’re one to talk. Nothing like the pot calling the kettle black.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:32 pm
Like I said, Americans don’t like islam.
More Disapprove Than Approve of Obama Mosque Remarks
More Americans disapprove than approve of President Barack Obama’s recent comments concerning the planned construction of a mosque near where the Sept. 11 terror attacks occurred in New York City, but 4 in 10 do not have an opinion on the matter. The vast majority of those with an opinion hold it strongly
http://www.gallup.com/poll/142202/Disapprove-Approve-Obama-Mosque-Remarks.aspx
problem solved
August 18th, 2010
10:32 pm
Fixed News…$1 million dollars donated by Rupert Murdock to the republican party… FAIR and BALANCED…you betcha!
Left wing management
August 18th, 2010
10:33 pm
Grand Forks
You know, come to think of it, isn’t Ms Laura Schlesinger is on your side on most things, such as this mosque issue?
Well, she’s getting her lunch handed to her right now on the next show on CNN.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:34 pm
“hateful garbage written here in a month.”
Hypocrisy knows no limits with vet.
Some of the delightful words vet has used to describe other bloggers: talibaptist, @sshole, @ssclown, idiot, stupid, klanner………
Yep Kumar, you do have a great ally in ScamVet.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:34 pm
“Fixed News…$1 million dollars donated by Rupert Murdock to the republican party… FAIR and BALANCED…you betcha!”
Nothing like left wing retard wealth envy.
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:35 pm
“You know, come to think of it, isn’t Ms Laura Schlesinger is on your side on most things, such as this mosque issue? ”
Who?
“Well, she’s getting her lunch handed to her right now on the next show on CNN.”
Huh, I don’t remember her being on Fox News.
AmVet
August 18th, 2010
10:37 pm
SoCo, stand tall. (And don’t forget to look behind the bushes!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v10gEIUcK70
Try again tomorrow…
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:39 pm
“Try again tomorrow…”
How’s bout heading back over to your daddy’s blog, ma’am.
problem solved
August 18th, 2010
10:40 pm
No envy my friend from North Dakota, as and heir of 2,500 acres in the Williston Basin which has just been leased out to Petro Hunt I think I’ll do just fine down the road!
Grand Forks
August 18th, 2010
10:42 pm
“as and heir”
Oh, so you can’t earn your money. You have to inherit it.
Lil' Barry Bailout
August 18th, 2010
10:46 pm
Pelosi wants to investigate Americans who oppose the Ground Zero mosque, and it’s the AJC’s own Cynthia Tucker claiming that it’s the GOP showing signs of McCarthyism?
Cynthia Tucker: Hypocrite. Terrorist-coddler.
Left wing management
August 18th, 2010
10:47 pm
Huh, I don’t remember her being on Fox News.
Oh, that’s right. I might as well have told you somebody was on Al Jazeera.
BADA BING
August 18th, 2010
10:47 pm
Hope all you women are enjoying your right to vote, which you will not have under muslim law. And yes, you will look fat in a burka.
ND
August 18th, 2010
10:51 pm
“Nothing like a retarded left winger.”
I’m pretty sure I voted for Ron Paul. Nothing like an idiot neocon who follows Fox News talk show hosts like a sheep.
problem solved
August 18th, 2010
10:52 pm
Grand Forks … Get real or get stepped on…I have worked most of my life, I served in Vietnam, I have served in the guard and reserve for an accumulation of over 20 years of service. I retired last year after 25 years of service with a fortune 100 company….Whatever I have I have earned (Not to mention putting two great kids through college, and grad school) So go piss up a rope you ole bitter f*ck…Whatever comes down the pike as an inheiretance is ice cream on the pie. I’ll flip you the bird as I flash by in my red Aston Martin!