The tea party as a ‘hostile takeover’ of the GOP

“The American values of individual freedom, fiscal responsibility and limited government bind the ranks of our movement.”

And if that remains the core message without taking any detours into religious intolerance or other such un-American nonsense, then the tea-partiers will be a good thing for both the Republican Party and America.

The bottom line, Kyle, is that the Democrats are going to lose big in November unless the Repubs shoot themselves in the foot by diverting attention away from these core conservative values. Can they avoid the temptation?? (Hint, all the furor over the building of the community center/mosque in NYC is a great example of diverting attention away from core conservative values).

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There’s the beauty of the tea baggers “spontaneous order.”, it’s been so perfectly orchestrated that it almost seems like soemthing new and fresh instead of a recycling of failed and never-saw-light-of-day ideas from the far right fringes.

What new ideas have emerged from the “true freedom loving” beast that calls itself the Tea Party?

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That tea would taste better with a little honey, IMO. Right now it smells like a mixture of vinegar and ammonia, and I’m not inclined to give it a swirl on the tongue.

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I’m very confused by some people I know that are pretty staunch Republicans/Tea Partiers. One is my husband’s niece, 33 years old, unmarried with a baby. She has an Associates Degree in something like Biotechnology and has worked in 2 major hospital labs. She also has many years of experience as a bartender. She also has completed training to become a practical nurse. But she chooses to sit at home and collect government aid and Medicaid for herself and the baby.
The other person I know is 26 years old, bright, capable, extremely personable, and a very strong and vocal Christian. She chose not to further her education past high school. She works as a waitress. Last week she applied for Medicaid because she has no health insurance.
Both of these people vote Republican. One is a strong part of the Religious Right. The other is a strong supporter of our military and was very opposed to Obama Care.
I don’t get it . What does being a Republican mean anymore? Does anybody know?

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Well, I see some gut shot another guy in the face outside a Waffle House in Cobb County. I sure hope he was Liscenced to Carry in this state. Else he might could be in a whole lot of trouble.

Anyway, people got no reason to be afraid of us Tea Partiers. After we take over and get rid of Social Security and Medicare and all the guvmint payouts to a bunch of jobless bums and welfare cheats, we aim to turn this country back to the way it was back in the 1920s. You might could see more people walking around with tin cups or selling apples and pencils, but at least you’ll be rid of the UnAmerican Equal Rights laws.

My advise is for you to be real nice to the rich people so’s they’ll be nice to you when we’re finished with our work. You’re going to need their help.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

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The Tea Party has some enormous problems.

The makeup is 89% white, 1% black. And I thought the GOP was the Big Tent Party!

Most Tea Party supporters are Republican, white, male, married and older than age 45. Very bad demographics.

30% think President Obama was born outside the United States, And therein lies the correct observation that the loon factor is much too high.

Although touted as a grass roots effort it is really astro-turfed. Much of the genesis has been through Republican PACs, Republican operatives like Dick Armey, Newt Gingrich and Jim Demint, Republican think tanks like Freedom Works, and of course the granddaddy of Republican Misinformation – Fox News.

My best guess is that they’ll be gone and firmly back in the GOP’s lunatic fringe in a year or two…

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The GOP lacks credibility. In GA and in the US the GOP have not performed after elected. In the US they governed so bad that a black man with a funny name is now the President. Yep they need to regroup.

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“The makeup is 89% white, 1% black. And I thought the GOP was the Big Tent Party!”

AmVet–I’m sure you know that most blacks agree with the Republican Party platform on an issue-by-issue basis. But when it comes time to pull the lever in the voting booth, 95% punch Democrat. I’ve asked several black bloggers over the years why this is the case and what it would take to make the Republican Party more inclusive, but have never gotten a straight answer other than references to Affirmative Action. Just my opinion, but I think the Dems have simply bought their votes with promises of preferential treatment.

Any suggestions on your part to make the Republican Party more inclusive?

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If blacks prefer to stay with the Democrappers the so be it. They have been doing so for quite sometime and the Dems have yet to fullfill the promises made to them.

If blacks want to join the TP or Reps then they should if they dont then that is of course their choice. It wont put any boils on my ass one way or the other.

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Not sure if it’s your particular “cup of tea”, Matti, but here’s a sweet love song that’s been in my head for a few months now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiGKumYBLLE

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So the tea are the wanna be “real” cons, not the neo cons that Reagan ushered in. I don’t think they have the political guts to do what they say.

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Here is what I want: individual freedom, fiscal responsibility and limited government. I want people who have babies to have the means to support those babies before they become impregnated. I want not to support other people’s food habits and homes. I am fine with my taxes going to Medicare/SS cause I paid in the max every year for those things, but I am not fine with my taxes going to support numerous generations of welfare families, who spawn like roaches.

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groups without hierarchy tend to splinter off
and fizzle out.

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The War on Drugs was Nixons…if I recall correctly.

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Love these two comments:

1) from “the link”–[L]et us be clear about one thing: The tea party movement is not seeking a junior partnership with the Republican Party, but a hostile takeover of it.

And this one from the comment section within “the link”–“You in Washington have voided your right – on loan from us – to govern. We will now remove you.”

I would just add…we will remove you, be ye Republican or Democrat.

————————————————————————————-

Bruno:

Not sure if it’s your particular “cup of tea”, Matti, but here’s a sweet love song that’s been in my head for a few months now: “Inside My Love???”

What’s the matter….pickin’s gettin’ slim out there in the real world? Gotta bring your “smooth moves” into the virtual world?

Life, for you, is a box of “chocolate” covered cherries.

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Horace, you are correct. Tricky Dick coined the term and implemented the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970.

But it was Ronnie “BIG government” Reagan who, in his uniquely gifted way, created the Office of National Drug Control Policy and absolutely EXPLODED the size, scope, cost and interference of the hated federal government. He was the genius behind the *central coordination* of drug-related legislative, security, diplomatic, research and health policy throughout the government.

And it was just the beginning…

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AmVet,

I still remember cracking up regularly when Reagan was President. (The “me me me” decade.. , his constant “quips”… ah, good times.) Remember this?

“Get big government off our backs!!!” … followed by: “Here, pee in this cup. We have the right to sniff it so we’ll know what you did last weekend.” Whaaaa?

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The DEA should be enforcing the use of drugs. If Granny doenst take her meds to *bonk bonk* on the head. If big fat Susie doesnt take her thyroid medicine then she gets a rappin with the night-stick.

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Bruno August 17th, 2010
2:17 pm
“Not having a job tends to put a damper on the love life, @@, among other things. I may be broadcasting from my mom’s basement in a few months if something positive doesn’t happen soon.”

Hang in there…the market is slowly changing…but it IS changing!! When the GOP was in the White House, I went through periods of unemployment that lasted up to TWO YEARS…but I made it through!! I was able to find employment when the Administration changed within 90 days!!

Your time will come!!

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CJ @ 1:05–Great examples of how the Republicans have strayed far, far away from true conservatism. Don’t forget, however, that the Tea Party backlash began in 2008 in response to Bush’s failed policies. It’s more of a Reform Movement within the Republican Party than it is a reaction to obama and the Dems, IMO.

HDB–Excellent points @ 1:27, 1:55, and 2:07, which I would like to address more specifically after I take a food break. Thanks for the input.

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I would not say that all the Tea Party folks are motivated by racism. But the ones I know are the sons and daughters of folks who were the most die-hard segregationists 40 years ago.

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The REAL Tea Party Contract for America REVEALED:

1. Protect the constitution; but don’t allow gays to marry or children born here to be citizens.
2. Reject cap & trade; however, as a conservative I believe that our taxes are outrageous and corporations would be more profitable if we manufacture and outsource production of our products in China and Mexico. You know those people over there work for and expect a lot less money and/or benefits. That will increase revenue and payout much larger bonuses.
3. Demand a balanced budget; but its okay to fund everything on credit, like we did a few years ago. The budget just needs to have the appearance of being balanced for the time being.
4. Enact fundamental tax reform; my grandchildren have worked so hard for their inheritance and why should I care if they have to drive their Mercedes Benz on dirt roads; one day they will have personal aircraft vassals.
5. Restore fiscal responsibility & constitutionally limited govt.; back to the push we Republicans have for “not” allowing gays to marry, adopt, etc…. or to change the constitution birth right citizenship.
6. End runaway govt. spending; unless it’s to promote war and republican own private companies that benefit.
7. Defund, repeal & replace govt.-run health care; unless it’s my military healthcare benefits paid for by tax dollars or has to do with social security benefits. My old folks were fortunate enough to save (steal) from hardworking lower class citizens making minimum wage on my assembly lines, so the heck with other citizens. If they couldn’t save with minimum wage, don’t expect me to feel sorry for them.
8. Pass an “all-of-the-above” energy policy – except the kind that would ruin my view in the back yard. Place those wind mills and solar panel companies on the south side. You know where those people live, because it cost a lot less money.
9. Stop the pork –unless you are building a bridge to know where.
10 Stop the tax hikes; I wouldn’t want my grandchildren to have to suffer in the future. They shouldn’t have to pay off debt that I created on credit. That’s for the little people.

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Lindsey Graham frustrates me with his combination his bizarre switches in stances and beliefs, but to quote him when he met with a group of Tea Party members, “What do you want to do? You take back your country — and do what with it?’”

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My problem with the moteas is where were you when the lights went out ? All of a sudden everything is bad to hear them talk. Well I’ve got news for the rainy day parade crowd, It’s getting better. Most problems people moan and bitch about is not the fault of the US gov’t.

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“The American values of individual freedom, fiscal responsibility and limited government bind the ranks of our movement.”

That statement in and of itself is a wonderful concept.

But here is the problem. The “buts” start. The “except for” items start popping up.

It is impossible to have “individual freedom” and “limited government” and have a long list on your social change agenda.

It is impossible to have “fiscal responsibility” when one does not recognize the roots of the present fiscal crisis.

I am all for “individual freedom, fiscal responsibility and limited government”. The problem is that those who say they believe it really do not believe it. They have exceptions, buts, and what if’s, that together destroy the concept.

“Individual freedom” means most things are none of government’s business.

“Limited government” means stop expecting government to solve every problem that pops up.

I am afraid it is way to late.

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CJ @ 1:25, The Contract of American is composed of fiscally conservative principles. Most conservatives vote Republican. The Tea Party is non-partisan.

The Tea Party & FreedomWorks are not one in the same. FreedomWorks is non-profit & the Tea Party is grassroots. FreedomWorks has helped sponsor some Tea Party activities (portable bathrooms, speakers, etc.) but the majority of Tea Parties have no money. Being a member of a Tea Party is free & there are no costs unless you eat or ride a bus.

FreedomWorks receives donations from conservative corporations & right-wing foundations such as liberal organizations receive donations from liberal-leaning corporations & liberal-wing foundations.

The rest of your post is speculative or non-applicable. The Tea Party did not vote for Bush since it didn’t exist until Obama was elected.

The Supreme Court has already ruled on giving corporations (& unions) rights under the constitution.

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“under-employeed?” Is that like not being paid what one is worth? ie a CSR being employed at Comcast who expects to make $50K?

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“The disastrous legacy of the Reagan’s Failure, aka, the War on Drugs is two-fold. First millions of kids went to jail for smoking grass.”

Ah yes, the AJC resident retard has come over to give us her take on Reagan. Gotta hand it to Bedwet, she sure knows how to make us all laugh.

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CJ – AWESOME POST!!!!!!! Loved it! If the Tea Party were truly grass roots and interested in only making our country great and our freedoms real for EVERYONE, I might could identify. But I know about the scum who is heading this thing and they don’t give a damn about our country or the people in it. They are only out for themselves. I am truly a financial conservative, but I don’t believe the government should intrude into the personal lives of its citizens, more strongly than I want a loe deficit. Thus these days I have no choice but to side with Dems. Add to that fact you can’t trust or believe a damn thing that comes out of the mouth of a Republican or a Tea Partier and so there is no choice if you truly believe in freedom and honesty. Tea Parties and Republicans are driven by two things and two things only…power and money. They don’t give a damn about me and you so long as the elite ones have power and money. Nothing else matters and if you think it does you are sadly mistaken. Believe me, I;ve been there.

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Jr high class just got out…

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There, as they say, goes the neighborhood. Wiedersehen!

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“Jr high class just got out…”

Oh, are you looking for new NAMBLA victims?

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Kyle, I tried to read the Armey/Kibbe WSJ manifesto, I guess I got bogged down in the part where they were taking potshots at their political opposites, claiming that our answer to “everything” is bigger government and suchlike.

Here’s my real bone of contention. in the part you pullquoted, to wit:

The many branches of the tea party movement have created a virtual marketplace for new ideas, effective innovations and creative tactics.

What new ideas?

I’m not being snarky here, I literally do not know of any “new ideas” being put forth by the TPers. Unless they’ve figured out a new way to pay for stuff we need–and no, simply claiming you can privatize your way to efficiency is hardly a new idea–I really don’t know what they might be.

I’ll take one example, and please tell me if I have this wrong. During the healthcare reform debate, I was told that the President and Congress were imposing “socialized medicine” (even though what was passed was anything but.) And what were the great ideas being put forth by America’s conservatives?

Far as I could tell, I heard some half-hearted efforts to somehow beef up HSAs and… not much else. Thing is, we already have HSAs. You can provide a bit more tax deductability to make them a bit more attractive, but they can’t possibly provide coverage to all.

what am I missing? anything?

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More bad news for the left wing retards of the AJC.

Top Democrat splits with Obama on Ground Zero mosque

Harry Reid, the top Democrat in the US Senate, has publicly broken with Barack Obama by opposing plans to build a mosque near the Ground Zero site of the September 11 terrorist attacks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7950475/Top-Democrat-splits-with-Obama-on-Ground-Zero-mosque.html

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Obama, the one-term president

Honest to goodness, the man just does not get it. He might be forced to pull a Palin and resign before his first term is over. He could go off and write his memoirs and build his presidential library. (Both would be half-size, of course.)

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41134.html

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Linda @ 2:44 – The tea party – non-partisan? In which universe is that? They are overwhelmingly right wing.

Personally, I thought the tea party was started because the Republican party was imploding from scandals with Jack Abramoff, “Duke” Cunningham, et al, and the absolutely abysmal job under President Bush (or was that President Cheney, I was never quite sure). To me, it was simply a rebranding effort.

I’m sure I’ll here from several of you from the other side about Charlie Rangel and Maxine Waters. I would simply point out that these were a result of Nancy Pelosi putting teeth back in the ethics committee. And frankly, if they were corrupt, they should be ousted. Just like people like John Ensign (taking money from his parents to pay of the husband of his mistress and then using his office to get him a job).

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@ Grand Forks: Saw this from the Politico article:
” It appears, however, that at least on this occasion, Obama does not care what the polls say.”

Funny…neither did Bush and Cheney……..and look where they took us!!

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No Longer Republican @ 2:55 – I don’t say ‘fiscally conservative’; it’s ‘fiscally responsible’. I do like the idea of a balanced budget and we absolutely need to bring the federal debt down. Just not right now when the country is in such dire streits.

I’d like to point out that I used to consider myself a Republican. I voted for Nixon, Ford, Reagan twice (the second time was a mistake) and Daddy Bush. What I found was that over the past 30 years, the Republican party just kept drifting further & further to the right.

There was a time when extremists like the John Birch society were expunged and denunciated by Republicans. Nowadays, Republicans don’t set a limit on crazy.

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Objective Patriot August 17th, 2010
3:08 pm

Not quite…..according to the 2000 Census….whites are still the majority in Gwinnett. The population IS getting more diverse…..but the Tea Party is NOT attracting such a diverse group!! Much of their ideology is antithetical to minority interests….and many are evident of that situation!!

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Bruno, keep the faith.

It got to the point last year where I stopped asking my clients how business was. Long tales of woe, and here I’m thinking, “Hey, I was just being polite!”

For my business, last year was the worst in seven. By far.

This year however, for reasons unknown, is better. Not yet back to “normal”, whatever that now is, but at least it would seem the bottom has been reached. For now.

But we are just one calamity, contrived or otherwise, away from more horrible days ahead and virtually nothing at all has been done to reverse the war on the American middle-class.

As long as the same unindicted co-conspirators on Wall Street and in Washington are calling all of the shots, it’s just another verse from a Who song – “Meet the new boss…”

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Objective Patriot August 17th, 2010
3:10 pm
“HDB,

Recent census reports have showed that more minorities are moving to the suburbs and that more young white people are moving back to the city. The Tea Party is making the right moves with their choice of gathering locations.”

Question: Where are the preponderance of minorities located – in the suburbs or the inner cities? Where could greater political influece and conversion be achieved – in the suburbs or the inner cities? What area would be greatest positively/adversely affected by Tea Party policies – the suburbs or the inner cities?

More often than not, it would be the inner cities!!

Answer

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HDB,

Would you go to a tea party if it were in College Park or East Point? Those aren’t favorable neighborhoods for large crowds. Just ask the 3000+ who were trampling children while cutting line to get housing vouchers.

The Tea Party movement is still young. It needs time to mature and grow. It will appeal to more and more people as more people take the time to understand it.

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Stand @ 2:57, Obama did not even nominate anyone to head the new Medicare & Medicaid Services Adm. so he or she could be vetted & voted on by the Senate. Rather he appointed Donald Berwick during the recess, who will be in charge of a budget larger than defense.

Berwick said, 11-08, “Any health care funding plan that is just, equitable, civilized & humane must, MUST redistribute wealth from the richer among us to the poorer & the less fortunate. Excellent health care is by definition redistributional.”

He said, 6/09, “We can make a sensible social decision & say, ‘Well, at this point, to have access to a particular additional benefit…is so expensive that our taxpayers have better use for those funds.’ We make those decision all the time. The decision is not whether or not we will ration care. The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open & right now, we are doing it blindly.”

Speaking about NICE, the UK’s Natl. Institute for Clinical Health & Excellence, he said 7/08, “While the guidelines are complex, NICE currently holds that except in unusual cases, Britain cannot afford to spend more than about $22,000 to extend a life by six months.”

The Boston Globe said of him, “The deeper Berwick has gotten into the problem over the last decade, the more radicalized he has become” & to save the health care system, it first needs to be blown up.”

The health care bill was NEVER about reforming health care.

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Historically third parties have disappeared when they were absorbed by one of the major parties—the temptation of a voter bloc is too tough to resist. Thing is, the Tea Party may say it’s for limited government, personal responsibility, and all that jazz, but it’s attracting too many nutcases and flakes. If the Tea Party can shake off the screaming nutcases it’ll be a great thing for the country.

There’s room for discussion on issues like illegal immigration without suggesting concentration camps. Talk of succession is like a bomb, you better handle it carefully. And railing about death panels, birth certificates, and socialized medicine (while you get medicare) will never pay off in the long run.

Lynn, you’re not familar with Redneck convert, are ya?

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So the Tea Party is for “individual freedom, fiscal responsibility and limited government.” That’s all good, but I don’t know of anyone who says they are against those things. The Republican Party is nominally for those things too, but once in power, it traded them in for stuff that makes people happy and gets you re-elected (e.g., tax cuts without spending cuts, Medicare prescription coverage.) I don’t see that the Tea Party folks have any practical specifics to back up those generalities, and without practical specifics, they are slated to be co-opted or to fail.

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HDB–In response to some of your earlier points:

“1) Expand the membership roles — don’t limit yourselves to the Caucasians”

Obviously. It’s tough to win giving away a 14% market share year after year. The bigger question is why blacks avoid the Republican Party like the plague, especially when polls focusing on specific issues show that most blacks are in agreement with the Republican platform, especially on issues of morality:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/112807/blacks-conservative-republicans-some-moral-issues.aspx

“2) Don’t just hold rallies at the State Capital or the Gwinnett Center….try AU Center, College Park…..”

If there has been a pattern of avoidance, that should be changed. Even if they get booed, spending more time in black neighborhoods shows interest and respect, which will be rewarded in the long run.

“3) Embrace the idea of dialogue…..not hyperbole!

That goes both ways. And FYI, most conservatives view Hannity, Limbaugh, et.al. as being what they are–entertainers, and not serious thinkers.

“since the Dixiecrats infiltrated the party and Goldwater’s extremism became the party platform, the party has been antithetical to black interests.”

Antithetical in what way? As for the (mis)use of Willie Horton, etc, I think it was a mistake.

“All Affirmative Action did was to grant access to education and employment to those who had been previously denied….” “Conservatives/Republicans wish to eliminate programs that allowed minority advancement!” “Conservatives/Republicans do not believe that racism still exists….and use the law to promote such!! Conservatives cry against “unfair competition”…that minorities will get a job before a white person would…but note the number of CEO’s/managers.executives that are people of color or women!”

Which is, as stated above, a point that I don’t see a resolution to. I’m about as color-blind of a white person that you’ll likely ever meet, and I achieve that status by treating everyone the same.
Anti-discrimination laws are what provide legal access to education and employment ( = treating everyone the same), not Affirmative Action (creating special rules based on skin color or sex). I understand your frustration that minorities remain under-represented in some of the higher echelons of society, but I believe the harm of creating laws specifically based on sex or skin color is too great to use it as a remedy.

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If we conservatives do not get our act together we will forever live with big spending big government. We need to push the agenda of jobs, immigration, taxes, and healthcare. That is the most important. Who people marry or what they do with their bodies is between them and God.

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Obama did not even nominate anyone to head the new Medicare & Medicaid Services Adm.

erm, this has what, exactly, to do with my post?

Kind of odd, how few appear to be interested in discussing Kyle’s topic.

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Interesting seeing all the leftists and libs posting on what the Republicans and Tea Partiers should do! Like your input has any merit or weight for consideration. HA!

Look, the Republican leadership is under attack from within because many of them have sold out America and Americans. A groundswell of platform debate from the grass roots and a purge of dead weight and ineffective leadership at the top is just what we need. Bring it on.

Whether or not Tea Party leadership drives Party change is merely a side show; most of us understand this is career politicians jumping off the tracks and onto the train before getting run over.

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HDB,

You’re showing signs of prejudice.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

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Bruno August 17th, 2010
3:40 pm

Thanks for the dialog……to address your queries:

1) The bigger question is why blacks avoid the Republican Party like the plague, especially when polls focusing on specific issues show that most blacks are in agreement with the Republican platform, especially on issues of morality.

Albeit some are in agreement, many black people see the moralty issue as another wedge that conservatives/Republicans use to divide us further….furthermore, they don’t practice what they preach! Note: Newt Gingrich, Larry Craig, John Ensign, et. al.! The “holier-than-thou” tends to show hypocracy!!

2) If there has been a pattern of avoidance, that should be changed!
Hasn’t yet!! Show me the last time that a Republican has campaigned in the inner city to ask for our votes?? The closet Sarah Palin ever came to the southside was Buckhead!!

3) And FYI, most conservatives view Hannity, Limbaugh, et.al. as being what they are–entertainers, and not serious thinkers.
The problem is that too many conservataves parrot Hannity/Limbaugh TALKING POINTS……without any semblance of logic and research! Too many consaervatives only get their information from FOX News……and the slant they have speaks volumes!

4) ” the party has been antithetical to black interests; Antithetical in what way? ”

1) Education: Persistent cuts in education spending….which all agree is the pathway for progress. Reagan shifted educational spending from majority grants to majority LOANS…..and look at the increased default rates because of the inability to repay!
2) Employment: Refusal to enforce employment/Affirmative Action statutes in Republican Administrations. Note the number of discrimination suits filed during the Reagan Administration…and the lack of investigation and enforcement!!
3) Persistent discrimination patterns: Note the reduction of the enforcement arms of the EEOC and Justice Department under Republican Administrations! Note the discrimination against minority farmers by the Agriculture Department in the Reagan and Bush years….and the GOP members of Congress filibustering the settlement therein!!
4) Republican racism still exists: The “Southern Strategy” is still being used to marginalize trhe souther black vote! Remember the Jesse Helms campaign when he used a white hand destroying a job application and saying “a black man just took my job from me!” The GOP still uses these tactics!!
5) FEAR!! Look what’s going on now with Hispanics and Muslims…..it started with black people!!

If you really want to understand more….please read the attached link!!

http://www.blackcommentator.com/154/154_thindwa_black_conservatives.html

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HDB: “The problem is that too many conservataves parrot Hannity/Limbaugh TALKING POINTS……without any semblance of logic and research!” Where’s YOUR logic and research??? Baseless assertions.

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Obama’s approval ratings are in near perfect lock-step with those of the vaunted President Reagan…

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2010/08/04/obamas-job-approval-rating-falls-to-where-reagans-was-at-same-point-in-his-presidency/

I still have faith that President Obama is doing a pretty good job. I’d like for him to end these mindless wars we are waging, and cut the “military welfare” to countries like South Korea, Israel, Denmark, Germany, and dozens of others.

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HDB–There’s no doubt a lot of work to do to woo black voters back to the Republican Party. On the “perception” side of the coin, I can’t disagree with any of the examples you provided and in your link. Rightly or wrongly, perception shapes people’s preferences at least as much as substance does, so the Repubs would be wise to work a little harder in that area.

Over on the substance side, I’m not sure a lot more can be done short of compromising the principles of equal treatment.

Thanks again for the input. Contrary to what DawgDad stated on the last page, listening carefully to those who don’t agree with you is important, even if only to reinforce your own beliefs.

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If the “Tea Party” really were about protesting taxation without representation, I would SOOOO be there! There’s not one single person “representing” me in any legislative body. I voted for none of them, and even if I had, they don’t care what I think, want, or need. Their responses (or lack thereof) to my correspondence and their voting records verify this reality.

They fight for big money, and use “morality” issues to divert voters’ eyes from the real problems. “Look! Over there! It’s a [brown/gay/unemployed/single/illegal/non-Christian] person! Blame THEM!” Follow the money, people. If you don’t have it, you are not represented. Do you really think they care about you because you share the “values” they espouse? HAHAHA! Riiiiiight.

Can I get a refund?

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Stand @ 3:43, You said @ 2:57 that the new health care law was anything BUT socialized medicine.

I described @ 3:26 our new Medicare Adm., who is a socialist. Do you know what socialized medicine is?

Do you know what is going on? Are you familiar with the progressive agenda? Have you noticed they have nationalized 2 of our 3 American auto companies, the largest insurance company in the world (AIG), Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac who own most of the mortgages in the US, the student loan program, the operation of the banks & our health care system? They want to pass cap & trade which Obama said would cause utility costs to “skyrocket.”

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Linda @ 3:45 The tea party is a diverse group made up of white republicans. Period. There may be a percent or 2 of independents, but it is very conservative.

BTW, the budget President Obama operated under in 2008 was the last budget (outside of the stimulus bill) of President Bush. That’s how it works. You don’t have time to come into office and pass a budget.

Now, as I said previously, I like being fiscally responsible and I don’t think it’s a good idea to be running up federal debt. So, in terms of the debt of this country, please tell me exactly where you and the tea party people were when President Reagan quadrupled the debt (from about $240 Billion to $1 Trillion), President Bush quadrupled the debt (from $1 Trillion to $4 Trillion) and President Bush II doubled the debt (from $5.5 Trillion to $12 Trillion)? Where were all the people with tea bags hanging from their hats then?

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Thanks for crediting the real individual liberty and freedom group that started this.

Dick Armey doesn’t care about liberty or freedom. Dick cares about Dick and gaining his power base back.

The republicans do not have to worry about the Tea Party taking them over. The Tea Party had better watch its back because the republicans are clearly planning on taking them over.

The republicans are just the worse half of the war party. The democrats are the other. They are both for big government, big spending, lots of killing of innocents, denial of civil liberties, and more taxation and inflation and deficit spending. Unfortunately too many Tea Party types are too. Just look at the signs at some of the rallies. As someone who has worked for many years promoting freedom, I find their jingoistic, pro-empire, keynesian economic mindset appalling. What should have been an uprising of the best and the brightest, appears to be an uprising that is comprised of too many uneducated (economics, politics, and the other truly important things) folks who are just pissed at Obama and would just assume have King George the W back in power to help us conquer the world.

Don’t get me wrong. There are plenty of Ron Paul types in the group, and I hope that they can sway the folks in the right direction. But if embracing Palin and Newt is the plan, then the Tea Party is doomed, and any takeover of the republican party will mean little to nothing for the future of freedom or individual liberty in this country.

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“please tell me exactly where you and the tea party people were when President Reagan quadrupled the debt (from about $240 Billion to $1 Trillion), President Bush quadrupled the debt (from $1 Trillion to $4 Trillion) and President Bush II doubled the debt (from $5.5 Trillion to $12 Trillion)? Where were all the people with tea bags hanging from their hats then?”

Well, by looking at the numbers, many of them were independents and voted for “change” in 2008. And by looking at the numbers now, are not impressed.

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Bruno August 17th, 2010
4:18 pm

Thanks for the dialog…..there is a tendency to learn more about people when engaged in a constructive dialog rather than just shouting at the rain!!

Usmc Dawg August 17th, 2010
4:25 pm

First, I hate NO ONE! That is a word that take too much of a negative connotation! I have too many relationships with people of multiple ethnicities….and I’m able to cross over a bit more effectively than you seem to…….

Second: What happened to “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country”. I served…in the Navy, your SISTER branch (8 years)…so I’ve done…and GIVEN to my country!!

Third: I’ve never asked for anything BUT an opportunity and access to everything that any other American has similarly…so I know more about it than you think! I am an EDUCATED, working TAXPAYER….so parasitical is not in my nature!! Neither are other people that I know!!!

Any other questions??

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I bet most of you people couldn’t engage in civil debate about politics. Its just funny that the people who spouted off “Stand behind the President or git out” are now “Try to block everything the President does so we can TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!”
Guess what. You’re country is still here – and rather than work with your fellow citizen on fixing a broken country we all are cowards and engage in nothing more than name calling and partisan rhetoric. If you want your country to truly be free the go out and support whatever candidate deserves the job, regardless of party. Stop caring about how other people live their lives (gays, drugs, abortions) and try to make your life better and improve the lives of those in your community. Support your kids in school. Teach them about proper use of credit. Stop the name calling, its just as wrong to call Obama”The Messiah” as it was to call Bush “Retarded”. If you are going to talk the talk when your party is in power THAN WALK THE WALK WHEN YOUR PARTY IS NOT IN POWER.
All this name calling and bitching just makes every single one of you, regardless of political affiliation, look like spoiled brats. The problems with this country started with the baby boomers as they rebelled and wanted their own freedoms and to push the envelope. Now that they are the old folks they rebelled against its completely ok to try and quash what younger generations do.
Get off the computers people AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

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And BTW, white guy in the middle here in case you decide to call me racist or left wing. I am neither.

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As a proud member of the Tea Party, what I most respect about the part is we will hold both demorcrats and republicans responsible. When this movement came out we were not associated with either party. It was the dems and the liberal media knocking us and the fact our message closely fits that of conservatives as to why we are not part of the party. But like I said, we will hold those conservatives in office to task.

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DAWG
I don’t think HDB “hates” white people. I think, like the rest of us, he has his biases and prejudices. But I sense nothing remotely qualifying as “hatred” in what he has to say.

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HDB
There is an alternative to the two parties of Ole Massa here in the governor’s race, but when is the last time we heard a peep from the media about Monds?

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AmVet

August 17th, 2010
1:13 pm
The Tea Party has some enormous problems.

Most Tea Party supporters are Republican, white, male, married and older than age 45. Very bad demographics.

Why is this a “bad” demographic?

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Both sides are Thieves – Hey, you’re OK with me!!

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HDB`

I never said the GOP was an option. But you should realize that the Democrats aren’t the friends of your race. The party of big government(GOP) and the party of bigger government(DNC) are busy felonizing all of your “inner” city folks. They’re doing the same to the rural areas. Can’t you see that?

My group WILL NEVER endorse Johnny “no child left with a dime, TARP baby” Isackson.

As real lovers of liberty, we usually endorse Libertarians. (it is interesting to note that the Clayton County Republican Party is endorsing a libertarian instead of Isackson).

The less of two evils is still evil.

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HDB
I am always struck by how Engrish speakers have all but destroyed our ability to make a point in relation to perspective. “Prejudice” and “bias” are supposed to be entirely negative and refer only to matters of race (the discussion there mired helplessly in the black-white dichotomy). Well, I have a prejudice for chocolate ice cream and a bias toward left wing liberalism!

As for Monds…he’s not getting his message out for one simple reason…there is what amounts to a conspiracy by those elites and their mouthpieces in the media to insure that he doesn’t…

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“But you should realize that the Democrats aren’t the friends of your race.”

Nope, especially since a lot of democrats wanted to kill black people.

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Everyone is speaking about these political parties as if the great “THEY” in power are either your friend or your enemy. That may be true of the power elite in each one, to which I contend that they are friend to only themselves.

Why can’t people realize that what happens at the STATE and LOCAL levels affect your lives and livelihoods at least as much as (if not more than) what happens in Washington D.C.? Further, as private citizens, you exert maybe one millionth of one percent of practically NO influence over what happens in D.C. — if that.

And yet, we let national politics and national sensationalized media determine how we vote here (Who does he “agree” with?) instead looking at what these people actually DO under the Gold Dome, and how it affects business, property values, development, zoning, resource management, transportation and taxes here at home. Raise your hand if you even know who represents you at the state and local levels, and what they voted for or against. (Anyone?) There’s so much more to it than the (R) or (D) by the name, and there’s so much more to do than snipe at each other. If we start to get that through our thick, partisan skulls, just MAYBE we can find enough common ground to bring this state up out of the drain. Does anyone think they can let go of what divides us long enough to do that? (Anyone?)

End rant.

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The Tea Party simply wants to uphold the constitution and to force the unconstitutional administration in the white house to abide by the OATH.

Obama’s agenda is clear. To Tax us to death in order to promote and expand Islam in the United States. Tax payer money (yours) is being spent for Islamic programs at home and abroad. Obama is Islamic, He claims of Christianity have been proven completely false by his actions. This is America, NOT ISLAM.

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jacketnation
@ 5:13
Surely you are not serious? I’m no Obama fan by a long shot, but…

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Both sides are Thieves

You seem pretty smart but, the concept of Aphgan war good, Iraq war bad is ridico&lous.

When you have the world’s biggest military machine, you are forced to use it. Especially when your economy is tanking. Both wars are a result of mismanagement, mis-diplomacy, and special interests. It is what we do.

It really IS that simple.

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Here is a cool link for all Democrat, Republican, and Libertarian subjects. Our rulers would not want you to read this.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/6827.cfm

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The TEA party, while an interesting idea, is doomed to failure if it keeps pretending it is alergic to centralized power – also known as organization. There is no face to the movement. It is more philosophically aligned with the Republican Party, but the Repubs failed after the Contract with America to actually alter the the tax & spend mantra. EIC? Continued raiding of the Social Security Trust fund? The Bush tax cuts in light of the initiation of two expensive occupational wars, one of which was purely discretionary and ultimately doomed to fail (you can’t get a cat to eat something that is foreign to it, no matter how you dress it up) – as Iraq citizens have no connection to democracy – they have always been oriented toward monarchy.
Currently, we have a governmental mafia/feudel elected system. They require the citizens to pay “protection” money, then turn around and squander the funds on dumb crap – $50 billion for AIDS in Africa? A billion for Haiti economical development? Pointless federal grants that help no one but the researchers? CDC research on the “disease” of gun violence? This moron crap must stop. Repeal NAFTA, terminate all foreign aid, terminate all federal grants (except the ones tied directly to a funding source such as the FHWA & the gas tax). Freeze all federal wages in excess of $80,000 (except for nuclear scientists operating nuclear plants). Then, examine the State Dept – guarantee they are not living the vida loca all over the globe – close embassies at essentially worthless countries (Ghana, Luxemborg, Laos, etc., etc.). Remove the troops from Korea, Germany and most of Japan. At this point, you can start eliminating corporate welfare – farm subsidies, the defense industry, where ever else. Then, imposed substantial import tariffs. Finally, start altering entitlement – eliminate fraud, require more matching funds & increase the wage cut off from $97,000 to $250,000. Lower the salary of Congressman to $50,000; Senators $100,000. At this point, if we have not balance the budget, start terminating government workers. Also, the income tax needs to be reformatted – eliminating 100% of business taxes, but also itemization. How? 10% of all income tax exempt; all citizens over the age of 18 must pay 2.5% tax on all income; all adults receive a standard deduction of $25,000; all children under 18, $5000. Remainder of “gross adjusted income” is assessed at 17% – that is your tax bill. Fire the roughly 95% of IRS employees no longer needed.

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Jed…

The difference between being a hero and being a bully is knowing when to flex your muscle. You hit me first and I come to fight back (Afghanistan) I am a hero. When I come after you because I think you’re up to no good (with no solid proof I might add) then I’m the bully.
We were provoked into the Afghan war.
We provoked one of the most unstable areas in the world and unified the threat against us by starting an unprovoked war in Iraq. Just because we don’t like what is going on somewhere does not mean we have the right to invade and destabilize – whats next? Venezuela? North Korea? Several countries in Africa? Tell me where in the constitution it says we reserve the right to police the world and force our ideals on people who do not want them. Worked so well in Vietnam, didn’t it?

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Harry – your are a socialist with no vision. Your starting point in life has nothing to do with your ending point. Look at Obama – black dad, wacko white hippie mom – through nothing more than his own talent and tenacity, he became President. Thoroughly demolishes your erroneous assertion. Yes, most dumb Americans live in filthy, noisy cities. That is their error. But not the government’s problem.

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No More Progressives! August 17th, 2010
4:50 pm
It’s “bad” (for lack of a better word) because it’s not DIVERSE! It’s a monolitic bloc that only sees things ONE way! Every pathway has multiple options…..an airplane can’t fly with only ONE wing!!

Kinda like the NAACP?

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Grand Forks

August 17th, 2010
5:34 pm
“Yea…but not as long!!”

LOL, guess you’ve never heard of Rome, ma’am.

Georgia, New York, or Italy??? (…and it’s SIR!)

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HDB @ 5:36 – You eat eel? Just when I had some respect going for you. However, if there’s Godiva cheesecake involved, I am so there.

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The funny thing is, all the reaction to 9/11 never addressed our problem – the immigration system in the country – we fail to protect ourselves because the uber elite like “cultural diversity”. Just as we have failed to address the problem with the housing collapse – appraisers and the bond evaluators – Moody’s, Standard & Poors, etc. Iraq was not the US’s problem. Just as Korea is not. Nor Kosovo. Our elected federal leaders have gigantic egos, like Napoleon, and just can not help themselves in meddling in the life of foreign nations. But this addiction is exceptionally expensive.

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HDB- i assume you listened to Sherrods presentation to a crowd of NAACPers – that was a clear indicator of institutional racism – especially since many of the attendees were agreeing with her statements.

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Perhaps the tea partiers are Republicans who want the party to return to its roots.

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TEA partiers probably voted for the 1994 Contract with America – but were dismayed when Gingrich left and Delay turned the movement into hot tubs & lobbyist slush funds – but failed to curtail government spending – the EIC needs to be the first welfare redistribution program eliminated.

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HDB @ 5:46 – No. Calamari and eel are too rubbery. I do love sushi though. I’m more into salmon, tuna & shrimp. I like rainbow rolls, things like that.

And I’m partial to the Godiva cheesecake, but to paraphrase Will Rogers, “I’ve never met a cheesecake I didn’t like”.

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Left @ 4:32, You should attend a Tea Party or a 9/11 event to form you own decision. All Tea Party members are fiscal conservatives. There’s many more independents who are conservative than liberal, more than half. There are all races & ethnic groups represented. We supported the Honeycutt lady who ran against David Scott. She’s a black Republican. Herman Cain has led several of our events. All the Project 21 members support the Tea Party. They are all black conservatives.

Obama hasn’t passed a budget SINCE HE’S BEEN IN OFFICE. How do you know when you have a deficit when you don’t have a budget?

The stimulus bill (as well as the strategy of the health care take-over) were written long before he was inaugurated. Do you believe the Dems. wrote thousands of pages in less than 3 wks.?

Using your numbers, you say Reagan raised the debt $760 B, Bush I raised it $3 T & Bush II raised it $6.5 T. Since it went from $4 T at the end of Bush I to $5.5 T at the beginning of Bush II, that means Clinton raised it $1.5 T. What this means is that Obama raised it almost as much in his first 3 wks. as Clinton did in 8 yrs. The Tea Party did not exist until after Obama was elected.

Per the CBO, the debt will be 62% of GDP by the end of this yr. & by 90% of GDP by 2020. It was 40% of GDP at the end of ‘08 under Bush & averaged 36% of GDP on average for the last 40 yrs.

Continuing to spend money you do not have on pseudo economics, to gain control (socialism, redistribution of wealth) & to buy votes is against the Tea Party philosophy.

We are now monetizing the debt. which Bernake promised under oath 6 mts. ago he would never do.

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The problem with the tea-party taking over the GOP is that an organized take-over requires, well, an organization.

Near as I can tell, the tea-party is not even a semi-organized coalition. They are a loose band of people sick of how things are being run. Ross Perot had a similar kind of thing in ‘92 and he didn’t have much traction in ‘96.

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And to speak to the overall topic – the Tea Party movement: it exists mainly for two reasons:

1.) Obama’s presidency has been the most far-leftist presidency since Jimmy Carter, and possibly the worst of all time. His big-government policies will be utter failures this time, just like they have been every single time they’ve been tried anywhere, at any time in history. Utter, miserable, destructive failures – making our healthcare system worse, our economy worse, our quality of life worse and our liberties fewer and fewer.

2.) The Republican party failed miserably in upholding their principles of limited government when they were in office. If they had done what they ran on, then at least Tea Party movement members would have a party to turn to in November that they could feel confident would reverse many of the Democrats awful policies over the last two years. However, the Republican party got into power and promptly drove up the size and cost of goverment, leaving small-government voters with nowhere to go.
Largely this was the fault of the mushy-headed thinking of Big Government Conservative George Bush, who foolishly believed that government could be used to fix the world. It’s the same mushy-headed thinking that came out of John McCain on issues of free speach (”oh yea, I think government is a GREAT arbiter over what should and shouldn’t be said about government during an election year!”) and immigration (”why on earth would we get tens of millions more illegal immigrants if we give the ones who are already here a pass?? that’s just silly talk! pass me one of those tasty burritos”).
That’s why true conservatives don’t have any confidence in the Republican party (especially it’s current leadership) to fix the problems before us – because when they were in power recently, they made things worse. Just not as bad as the current administration.

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True American @ 5:57

“All I can say Shawn Hannity, 25 mil year, Glen Beck 30 mil, Rush L. 50 mil. Not one of these guys completed college, and you dumb tea klansman give all their money on books and tours.”

Yeah – heaven forbid someone should earn money by selling something someone else wants to buy. What a quaint little notion. Don’t they realize that they should get their money the same way Democrats get it – by having government take it by force at the point of a gun?

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Off Topic,

There’s been a Hurricane Paul sighting over in the caverns at Jay B’s place.

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And Linda from my conversations with “fiscal conservatives” I find they really don’t understand all that much about macroeconomics. The label “fiscal conservative” seems to really mean “I don’t want to pay taxes”.

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True American – is that a translation for moron? Idiot? Lobotomized Parrot? The TEA party is focused on 1 thing – federal spending. Is that racist? Do minorities NOT pay taxes? Do you think your taxes are well spent? How jealous of successful people are you? Or are you just jealous of well paid talking head who did not spend tons of debt on two or three crap degrees and discover corporate America really does not value a graduate with a double major in woman’s studies & philosophy?

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Dave August 17th, 2010
5:50 pm

Will gladly address your issues with me:

1) First statement IS true. Check each aspect that I pointed out (Southern Strategy, Reagan in Philadelpia, MS advocating “states’ rights (segregation), Jesse Helms’ campaign in North Carolina against Harvey Gantt)…….

2) Your answer to my # 2: “Affirmitive Action is a policy to give preference to people based on physical differences (men/women) or appearance (black/white). Anyone who denies that this is anything other than reverse racism designed to hurt white males is a lying fool. If you’re fine with that, then that makes YOU the racist, not white people. Trying to get rid of racist, sexist programs like affirmitive action is completely in tune with the founding ideals of this country, where people are valued based on their actions, not their appearance.”

The “founding ideal” of this nation that you espouse did NOT consider women…nor ME as human. Women couldn’t sign a contract until 1969…and black people did not have full Constitutional protection until 1964!

From the Constitution – Article 1, Section 9: The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

Affirmative Action granted ACCESS to those who had been kept out! You state that it’s anti-white male; how many CEO’s in the Fortune 500 are female? (13) How many are females-of color? (1) . How many black males are CEOs? (4). It’s NOT skewed against white men since white MEN are still in control!!

3) Education budgets were cut in Republican Administrations…particularly in college ranks! Focus shifted from grants to loans….now look at the default rate! Also, vouchers won’t work because they divert funding from the public schools and provate schools discriminate…so that mandate of educating the masses can not be met!!

4) I’m sure they don’t just completely ignore mostly-black areas, because no political party wants to just give up votes. I think they should do more boots-on-the-ground work in black neighborhoods. But it could just be a matter of assigning money and time to the areas that provide the best value-for-money. If blacks vote Democrat 90%+, then Republicans may feel like “why spend time/money if they’re just emotionally (and irrationally, given the evidence in their communities) attached to the Democrat party?”. How do you convert if you don’t REACH OUT?? If the demographics are in flux, shouldn’t the party address that change and seek to increase membership! Show me where ANY Republican candidate for ANY political office has campaigned in the inner city?? (NONE!)

5) Non-investigfation of discrimination claims! Note the lack of enforcement of the EEOC and Justice Department of discrimination claims under Reagan and Bush!! Note the plethora of discrimination claims in the Agriculture Department under Bush and Reagan….and the GOP’s filibustering of the funding to pay the claims that the Ag Dept settled upon!!

6) Instead of speaking out on the value of hard work and self-sacrifice, he spoke out in favor of policies that would punish both of those things.” FALSE! Powell spoke from his own experiences…and the GOP didn’t buy it! Research Gen. Powell’s rise! When Reagan received the list of Generals for consideration, there were NO people of color on the first iteration!! When the list was sent back and updated, ONLY THEN was Colin Powell’s name added to it!! Reagan had to make a statement about Affirmaative Action since his previous actions in Philadelphia, MS were counter to that idea!! Colin Powell DID work hard….but Affirmaative Action was how he got noticed..throughout his career! He was granted the ACCESS….but he ALSO had the qualifications!!

7) Arizona’s law specifically prohibits profiling solely based on race! Note the key word – SOLELY — that means that it CAN be used! If you wanted to say racial profiling is illegal in the law, it should say racial profiling MAY NOT BE USED!! The way the law is written, the police have unfettered power! Remember Kathryn Johnston and Amadou Diallo!! Also..what about the presumption of innocence? Remember….the terrorists that brought down the World Trade Center came through CANADA!! Would there be as much emphasis about illegal white people in Minnesota or Georgia versus the Hispanics nationwide?? Don’t think so!!

You can’t just look at one side of the equation!! How much liberty are you willing to eliminate under the guise of protection and freedom!!

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left wing – you always suckered by the scum at goldman sachs? You do realize most of the funds given to AIG went straight to Goldman on a 1 to 1 basis? You also know that Goldman is largest owner of oil in the country? You also know prior to the TARP, when Goldman thought it was in the hole 20 trillion, the price of gas, due to the elimination of the market manipulating Goldman dropped to 1.54? After they received their TARP pass through, it went back up to 2.66? Goldman Sachs should have been allowed to go bankrupt – they are the most SOB corporation in existence – which is why they love to manipulated public opinion – mostly via US commerce dept public memos (estimating the cost of gas this summer, before labor day, before July 4, etc, etc – and it is always higher than demand should require). Don’t quote Goldman with a straight face – their the biggest bunch of limousine liberals in this galaxy – even in NY.

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HDB response to anything negative about libs including our Marxist president Obama:

Yeah but Bush / Reagan / Ford / Nixon / Eisenhower did something bad !!!!

Therefore Obama can do no wrong !!! He is the messiah, hope, and change we’ve been waiting for !!!

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Libs don’t understand that, Paddy.

Never will. They get a check from the government they think it’s free money.

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The danger is – the full faith & credit of the US Treasury – what if that is not worth anything?

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“We all become slaves to government run by a black man”

Over the line there, Paddy. It doesn’t matter his color, he’s a Marxist through and through.

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I concur, his color is irrelevent, the irony of a black man enslaving the people of this country to pay off the debts incurred by the political elite is really astounding.

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This is all true NONSENSE. The tea party will go away as soon as Obama is out of the white house. Where was the tea party when our leaders in both parties lied to invade another country and now costing us billions of dollars every week. The tea party will disappear when our African American president leaves the white house. Of course, a woman will NEVER occupy the white house as long the two parties exist. Lying and invading another country according to both parties is a good physical responsibility…..Both parties are full it, if you know what I mean.

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Paddy O @ 6:32 – maybe you’ll like this link better:
crfb.org/blogs/measuring-effects-arra
And I quote: “CEA estimates that the 2009 stimulus has boosted GDP by 2.7 percent and raised employment by 2.5 million jobs since February 2009, relative to what would have occured absent the stimulus.”

CEA would be the Council of Economic advisors.

However, you sound like the sort that will disregard anything anyone else says, if they have a differnt opinion than yours. In which case, stick your fingers in your ears and believe what you want.

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left wing – tell us what the project is and how it benefits the citizen? YOu also know all the stimulus $$$ was borrowed – we have to pay it back! The housing collapse & wall street hiccup was a market correction. Inept Harvard & Yale grad ran a lot of business into the ground with bad business fundamental. You think I can take the self serving job generation numbers as a candid evaluation of this success of the stimulus? Holy smoke screen

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who is in cea?

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left wing, how does it feel to be a leech?

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Martin – I sent an email to Phil Gingrey – telling him if he voted for the TARP, I would never vote for him again. It does not matter – Bush, Clinton, Obama – corporate welfare, financed via borrowing from a communist country is wrong. Let the Market work like nature – the weak are killed, the strong survive. This country must adopt a balance budget amendment.

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both sides – at least you know you are in utopia. But of course, what is the center precisely? And, what exactly would the government do that all people would think it benefitted them? Lower taxes? Get our troops out of Korea? Stop rendition? Your proposal for all to jettison their idealism is really very sad – in a republic, the ideas attract adherents; hopefully, the wisest ideas attract the most and get implemented. These ideas generally germinate from an individuals or groups idealism.

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Blagojevich was convicted on one count…lying.

He’s got a lot of company.

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RW

I didn’t see Blago. I wonder how much that trial and the re-trial are going to cost us.

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Blago like Martha Stewart will do his time
and that will be that.

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Thanks Paddy. Proves my point.I didn’t suggest jettisoning ideals. Middle ground means working together, not name calling and not getting defensive while there are available options. Should Obama have bailed out GM? NO. Should Bush have bailed out Wall Street? NO. Should the people in office work together to improve the country for all citizens, rich, poor, white, black, young or old and everything between? Yes. Its truly a sad day when **that** is viewed as utopia. We united on 9/11. Its a shame it took a whole lot of innocent lives to make that happen.
Sadly it will take something just as awful to get this lot of people to work together.
Even sadder is that there is nobody who really cares enough about the middle to do anything to cater to them. Extreme Right and Extreme Left wings will destroy this country beyond repair.
Remember that Reagan dreamed of a world free of a Nuclear threat – todays GOP views that as “Too Liberal” What does that say when the man many of you considered to be one of the greatest presidents of all time would not be in office if he ran today?

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I nominate Paddy O as an Honorary member of PCAN.

The truth hurts and sides are sometimes hard to pick, but………………..

There is no middle ground when it comes to revolution.

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So losses are acceptable as long as you prevail, Jed? Sounds like what was said when the Shah of Iran was overthrown – that was a revolution as well. And I am willing to bet you look at those people so unable to not meet in a middle ground that they are willing TO BLOW THEMSELVES UP to prove their point. Be it religion or politics a fundamentalist is still a fundamentalist and they are dangerous.The only difference between those folks and hardcore politicals such as yourself is that you’re not dedicated enough to sacrifice your life for your agenda. But go ahead and tell me that I am unrealistic, make fun of me, say nasty things.
That’s so much easier than to admit that BOTH sides are wrong sometimes, isn’t it?

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You write” P.S. — As a challenge to those who will come on here and disparage tea partiers, try to say something more original and insightful than accusing all or most of them of racism.” is in itself a racist remark. It diminishes those who are concerned about racist elements of the Tea Party.
Its pretty obvious there are some.

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Left @ 6:18, You are the one who brought up Reagan’s budget.

The deadline for the budget for FY2011 was 4/15/10. This is the first time in history that the house hasn’t passed at least a 1st version of a budget since implementation of the ‘74 Budget Act. They have been warned by Bernanke, the CBO Dir. & former Fed. Reserve Chr. Volcker, O’s adviser. This is reckless & major serious.

The stimulus bill was a $ trillion mistake. They have never worked in the US, in Europe nor Japan. When they were pushing it, unemployment was about 7.7%. The Chr. of the Council of Economics, Romer, predicted that it would rise to 10% if it wasn’t passed, but would not exceed 8% if it was passed. Unemployment has risen to 10% since it was passed & has remained there. 10% is more than 8%. Simple math!

TARP was the Toxic Asset Relief Program & has yet to remove a toxic asset. Some of the banks that received TARP funds did not need them but were forced to take them because the govt. didn’t want the public to know who was really in trouble. The free market should decide who should fail & there’s no company too large to do so.

Goldman Sachs is the most corrupt bank, maybe the most corrupt corp., in the US. The Council of Economics are all economic professors who have no experience running a fruit stand. More than 90% of Obama’s adm. come from acedamia land, not from the business world.

I understand a little about economics since I have a BS degree in it from one of the largest universities in the US. There was no problem with corporations spending money in 2/09. Corporations aren’t spending money today because they’ve passed nearly 10,000 pages of new regulations & taxes are going up on everything!

It wasn’t rich people who lost in the stock market. It was everyone who is not depending on the govt. ponzi scheme of social security. Pensions (assembly line workers, government employees, etc.) & IRAs & 401Ks from self-employed & middle-income people are invested in the stock market.

Govt. spending has actually added to the worsening of the economy. The banks are borrowing money from the Fed. Reserve at almost no interest & loaning it back to the Fed. Govt. for 4.5% with almost no risk!

Corporations & rich people don’t pay taxes. For example, in ‘08 Goldman made a profit of $2 B, paid out $10 B in compensation & benefits (using TARP funds) & paid less than 1% in taxes. Their CEO made $43 M, 3 times what Goldman paid in taxes.

Based on a personal tax return, how do you tell the difference between these “rich” people compared to small business employers who produce 80 per cent of the jobs & most of the taxes in America? What percentage of EMPLOYEES make over $350,000 per year? They are EMPLOYERS!

During a recession, the only thing worse than a govt. spending money it doesn’t have is raising taxes. This adm. is getting ready to make both fatal mistakes. It was also announced last week it is monetizing the debt, which Bernake promised under oath 6 mts. ago he would never do.

Being fiscally conservative means not burdening my great, great grandchildren for any programs we cannot afford today.

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Both sides are Thieves

UNITED at gun point.

That never works.

Regardless, I never said nasty things about you. I respect your opinion.

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Hillbilly:

The reports aren’t wrong…they did say they’d retry it, but I’m thinking they won’t. They’d have to go higher to get the testimony they’re looking for. Obama sought to unload Blagojevich to limit any damage to his campaign.

Obama’s Effort on Ethics Bill Had Role in Governor’s Fall

In a sequence of events that neatly captures the contradictions of Barack Obama’s rise through Illinois politics, a phone call he made three months ago to urge passage of a state ethics bill indirectly contributed to the downfall of a fellow Democrat he twice supported, Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich.

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Bruno:

You should be around when Kyle does interact. He’s very respectful of his visitors.

In all honesty, I’ve found jay to be rather condescending. That’s not a quality I appreciate in anyone.

Kyle brings the facts to support his claims. He’s very good at what he does.

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Another thing, jay takes things way too personally.

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“In all honesty, I’ve found jay to be rather condescending. That’s not a quality I appreciate in anyone.”

@@–You have to admit that Jay does have an endearing quality or two, or why else would he have such a loyal following which includes a fair number of unrepentant conservatives?

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Bruno

Kyle hasn’t been around that long but his blog seems to be growing some. Maybe this increased exposure will build his following. This blog is like the others; the tone of the discussion depends on who is here.

I’ll agree on his being very respectful. He and Jay both show more patience than I would.

The topics seem to be a little more varied here and Kyle writes on state and local topics a little more than Jay does. I’d like to see them take about one day a week and each write on the same topic. It would be interesting to discuss the contrasts in their views.

I hope Kyle’s readership continues to grow. We need to see things from different sides.

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Obama is self destructing and wants to take the Democratic party with him. Rise up Democrats and get with American ideals. Give up the Kool-Aid and Internet sites like Media Matters that will only bring you down.

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Hillbilly D,

Jay B will write about state and local topics once he moves to Anchorage.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oops! Should have been a question mark at the end of my last sentence at 9:11.

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“Because when the AJC shuts down a blog where several people had interacted for years they moved to a new blog and stayed in touch.”

Which accounts for the presence of myself, USinUK, NIF, and Matti. We all used to blog on the former Woman to Woman blog until it was closed.

“I hope Kyle’s readership continues to grow. We need to see things from different sides.”

The big draw on W2W was the presentation of each issue from both the conservative and liberal sides, though the bloggers tended to be overwhelmingly liberal. I wonder if Jay and Kyle would agree to go toe-to-toe on the same blog??

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Now why am I not surprised that Bruno hung out at the W2W blog?

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DANG! Hillbilly and I see Kyle in the same light.

Whodathunkit?

Well I always did think you were an astute one. (IW&SH)

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Just for you, @@, a nice Genesis number:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrJ1EUrJhOQ

Of times when kings and queens sipped wine from goblets gold
And the brave would lead their ladies from out the room to arbours cool

A time of valour, and legends born
A time when honour meant much more to a man than life
And the days knew only strife to tell right from wrong
Through lance and sword

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Having studied the left wing mind set on different far-left blogs it seems they’re pretty much guided by their hero’s in the MSM or on far left blogs. They all say the same things and their talking points never reflect free non-influenced opinion. The difference between Conservatives and far-left liberals is clearly differentiated. The left in this country thinks America is an intrinsically bad country that desperately needs transformation, while the right see’s America as a shining example of what’s great in our history as a nation, our culture and our contributions to the world. A sharp contrast now exists between the left and right in this country. The difference is that not so many years ago, liberals and conservatives didn’t disagree on the greatness of America, only on the what’s best overall for the country and its citizens, now the divide is between those who believe in a traditional America and those who believe in reshaping America into something far different.

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“You have to admit that Jay does have an endearing quality or two, or why else would he have such a loyal following which includes a fair number of unrepentant conservatives?”

I for one visit because of the bloggers, not the blogmaster. Like @@, I agree that Jay is redundant and condescending, but does have his good days. His agenda is pretty obvious, which tends to turn me off.

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@@ @ 9:22, In their heyday? They’re in it now. Been counting the czars lately? The Medicare person was not even nominated, let alone vetted by Congress & was appointed during a recess. He’s in charge of a budget larger than defense. The Senate would not pass climate change cap & trade tax so O has the EPA legislating it. He shut down drilling in the Gulf & wonders why unemployment is so high. There’s a memo circulating about granting amnesty to illegals with an executive order.

You mean a kingdom WITHOUT God on earth.

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A progressive tune, Bruno?

And the weak must die according to natures law

Did you know there used to be a Natural Law Party here in the U.S.? It dissolved. Their initiatives have been undertaken by The U.S. Peace Government.

Looks to be right up your alley, Bruno…not much room for a realist, but idealists are welcome.

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Linda:

I totally agree.

Will the movement ever die?

Hopefully it’s in its death knell now.

The Democratic Party has been hijacked by progressives.

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“Maybe I’m being cynical, but I think the Democrats buy the minority vote each election with promises of special treatment.”

It isn’t limited to minorities………….it is class warfare at it’s purest. The haves vs the have nots. No different than when I was young, dumb……..and broke. I voted democrat across the board – I wanted what “they” had, and the dems were promising it.

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““The Shot Heard ‘Round The World”.

HD–A few years back, I had a lady client who claimed to be related to BOTH Ty Cobb and Johnny Mize. I know they’re both Georgia boys, but wasn’t sure how they all could have been related. At any rate, I was smart enough to not push the issue with her. No sense letting the truth get in the way of a good client relationship.

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Well since Hillbilly brought up baseball, I was reading an article today about Lou Gehrig (sp?)

There’s speculation that he was the victim of brain trauma, not ALS. Something about him continuing to play while injured.

Just a tidbit.

G’nite.

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@@ @ 10:03, No, it will never die. It’s much, much worse than it’s ever been. I don’t know if we can repair the damage they’ve done or that they will do by Jan., ‘11. Most Reps. in DC have no clue what their agenda is.

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Bruno

Ty Cobb was born in Banks County and Johnny Mize was from Demorest. They aren’t very far apart and both Mize and Cobb were from old-line families. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if your client was telling the truth.

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A bit of baseball trivia for you, RW. Andres Galarraga of Montreal/Atlanta fame was known as “The Big Cat”, though it was Johnny Mize who originally had that nickname in the 1930s. Mize came out of Demorest, GA while Ty (The Georgia Peach) hailed from Narrows, GA, which is in Banks County. Close enough geographically to support a possible relationship.

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Bruno,

Per your earlier question/comment about Jay’s blog. 25 pages of “travelin music” and just as many for a picture of a trout ought to indicate folks don’t show up for just Jay.

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Looks like the blog is dead. Here’s “Back to Georgia” by Loggins and Messina:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHUwwRDQLkc

We could probably support a full Friday Night Music just based on songs about Georgia. There’s a bunch of them.

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Well, blog, looks like “We’re All Alone”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkZGAscEdLw&feature=related

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“Harbor Lights”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srdtqGPSrEY&feature=related

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Christians, Sarah Palin and Ground Zero Mosque

I am glad you gave me this opportunity to talk about the history of this great nation. The original English Colonist drifted to America’s shores because they had been exiled from Europe and marked as incorrigible criminals, murders, thieves, serial killers, and rapist. They were put in a boat and exiled because of the evil they wrought. The group of ex-cons had no idea where they were going until the boat hit the rocks and the first person that put his foot on land was Christopher Columbus, the serial rapist and murder.
They stumbled upon the Indians. The Indians were shocked to see the people and unable to take their eyes off them, observing they weren’t red like them, nevertheless, they were kind and offered to share their food. The Indians named this group of people, “ Pilgrims” because they were lost and new to the land. The Indians taught them how to hunt, fish, cultivate the land, make weapons, smoke their peace pipe and wash themselves and taught the women how to cook.
The Indians was having a special day of Thanks. Neighboring Indians traveled for miles bringing food and gifts and they called this day Thanksgiving. The Indians laid out the food and gifts on the table and asked the Pilgrims to pray and eat. The Pilgrims did not know how to pray, so the Indians taught them. After the meal was completed the Indians bowed their head once again to pray and thanked God that they could share their food with the Pilgrims. As they bowed their head, using the weapons that the Indians taught them how to make, massacred them and began to take over their land killing everyone in sight, forgetting their kindness. To this day, some Indian tribes cry on Thanksgiving. The wounded Indians that survived passed the story from generation to generation.
To the very few Indians that survived the massacre by running and hiding, he named this man, the “White” man. Great violence, grief and suffering were heaped on their land, their blood spilled to the ground. As the years went by and these pilgrims multiplied, savagely they went through the country, killing, burning, raping destroying and brining evil upon the land, because, for one thing, that’s all they knew, that’s why they had to be exiled from Europe in the first place. After they had killed, and violated the land, still with blood on their hands and heart while wiping the sweat from their brow from all the hard work of killing, they kneeled on their knees and prayed and thanked God for this “Great Land of Liberty” that they had discovered in 1492.
From that time, up until now, any human being that came across their path not looking exactly like them, they brutally murdered them, or enslaved them-treating them with every bit of savage cruelty. This “White man” Christopher Columbus and his posse made sure that tradition would continue until this day. Why this America has been at war with just about every country in the world leaving blood behind and taking some with them. Each time, they bow their head and “Thank God, for this great Christian Nation”.

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most blacks are in agreement with the Republican platform, especially on issues of morality

Issues? Plural? Bruno, that Gallup piece you linked makes a pretty flimsy case. There is precisely one (1) issue of agreement in their polling sample–whether “homosexual relations” are immoral.

Doesn’t go into the politics of gay rights, just the relations.

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I never heard of Barrack Hussin Obama! Isn’t he trying to change the American flag so Muslims won’t be offended?

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Linda from yesterday. – Yes I did bring up Reagan’s budget and if you in fact do have an economics degree (I got mine from the University of Missouri) Then you’d understand that you need to adjust Reagan’s $760 Billion debt to the same year’s dollars in order to compare to Obama’s debt.

First, stop repeating the lie. When the ARRA (stimulus package) was passed, unemployment was already over 8%.

The stimulus was in fact a success. On the previous page I copied a link from the council of economic advisors who said that it increased GDP by 2.7% and added over 2.5 million jobs. How is that a failure?

What would have been a failure is following right wing economics (If you have that degree then I’ll assume you follow the Austrian school). Austrian economics says basically to let everything crash & burn. If the business was supposed to fail, let it fail. Get the pain over with and then rebuild from the ashes.

So, they would have allowed the banking industry to fail. If you remember, AIG was teetering, Washington Mutual & Lehman brothers failed completely, Citibank was in huge trouble as well as Wachovia. What would have happened if they had failed? There would have been a huge cascading effect. Dr. Greenspan (certainly no liberal) said as much. TARP basically saved the banking industry.

So, they would have allowed GM and Chrysler to go under. Seems GM is turning a profit now, and isready to have an IPO and get out from the temporary government control. Letting them fail would have added another 3 million jobs to the 8 million currently unemployed.

Adding the 2.5 million jobs the stimulus created/saved to the 3 million from the auto industry means we kept another 5.5 million people employed right there. That sounds like a success to me.

So, who’s plan was better? I’d say that’s a no brainer (unless your’re an Austrian economist or a tea partier).

Corporations & rich people don’t pay taxes That’s actually the first thing you said that I tend to agree with. And this trend in fact started during Reagan’s administration. And I certainly think they need to be more heavily taxed (and middle and lower incomes not as much) in order to bring the overall debt in this country down.

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Oh and Dr. Laura has been chopped. That’s certainly good news. I guess she’s learning that she can’t bully her way around when it comes to advertisers. Good riddance.

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I’m all for limited gov’t and don’t particularly like paying any more tax than I do, but…..

I would be a lot more interested in the Tea Party movement if they would talk about how to deal with Social Security and Medicare. Those two alone will consume 100% of the Federal budget in the upcoming decades all by themselves. Any talk of cutting taxes and reducing spending in general without a plan for these two items is just hot air and a waste of my time.

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Don’t accuse racists folks of racism Kyle ?

Ok how about calling Greedy Republican’s Greedy……..is that OK ?

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Bosch

What’s up girlfriend! Looks like Jay locked you gals out of the closet for the week. Oh boy, am I gonna have fun with you!

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“The role of Tea Party patriots to the Republican Party is a lot like that of the political commissars of the Red Army in World War II”

LOLOL!!!! Gotta love the left wing retards.

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To HBD: While following your talking points regarding blacks and their relationship to the Republican party, I was reminded of the “Southern Strategy” employed by Richard Nixon and his administration to out do George Wallce. I was reminded that Clarence Thomas worked at the EEOC during the Reagan years and while he(Thomas) has come a long way to Supreme Court Justice, if one was to research his tenure at EEOC, he probably left it a shell and unable to advocate for anyone. I was reminded that during the Reagan years how “Silent Sam Pierce” his secretary of HUD had no hang ups about dismembering the agency. I was also remind of how Reagan mistook Pierce for mayor in a reception line. That tells me someone else in the Reagan administration selected Pierce for the HUD position and also a telltale sign that Reagan was starting to get senile only his loyalists chose to ignore the signs. The Republican Party is going to have to realize that trotting out Abe Lincoln who has been dead for over a 100 years as some kind of political savior for black folks won’t cut it. Truth be told the late Jack Kemp could run circles around Abe Lincoln and the Emancipation Proclamation. For every conservative who view Hannity, Limbaugh, et. al. as entertainers, there are others that take what they say as the gospel. Who will enlighten them? I do not listen to either as I am not near a radio when they are on the air, so I have no way of knowing whether they issue disclaimers. For what it’s worth, the late Barry Goldwater had more integrity in his little finger than these Conservatives have in their entire bodies.

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left wing @ 8:24,
Wall St. Journal, 2-6-09, “The Labor Dept.’s official unemployment rate hit 7.6% in Jan…”

USA Today, 2-6-09, Christina Romer said, “…The unemployment rate rose from 7.2% to 7.6%…”

Time.com, 7-14-09, “Back in early Jan, when B.O was still pres.-elect, 2 of his chief economic advisers…predicted that the passage…would keep the unemployment rate below 8%.”

In the actual document described above (Job Impact of the American Recovery & Reinvestment Act, 1-10-09, by Romer & Bernstein), “…even with the large prototypical pkg., the unemployment rate in 2010Q4 (NOW) is predicted to be approx. 7%, which is well below the approx. 8.8% that would result in the absence of a plan.”

George Will, Politifact.com, 7-11-10, “…With the stimulus, they predicted the unemployment rate would peak at just under 8% in ‘09.”

The bill passed 2-11-09 before the unemployment figures came out in Feb.

An unemployment rate of 10% is higher than 8%. What do you not get? I have already commented on the Council of Economic Advisers, 3 professors who have never have been in business. They have a tract record of zero. Unemployment is at least 2 1/2 to 3% higher than their predictions!

We are a free-market, capitalist society. We as a country should support widows, orphans, veterans, etc. but it is unconstitutional to bail out multi-billion corporations. It creates moral hazard by removing consequences & responsibilities to insulate corporations from their risky behavior. It encourages more risky behavior & more bailouts. It will bankrupt our country. It’s highly unfair for politicians to decide what campaign donors to bail out & who to let fail.

If you agree that “corps. & rich people don’t pay taxes,” how will “more heavily” taxing them bring one dime into the treasury?

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[...] them, but they’re openly and explicitly, in the Wall Street Journal no less, talking about a hostile takeover of the Republican Party – a big change. Cue Madeline Kahn singing I’m [...]

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