The real ‘two Americas’: government and the governed
The public sector sees a totally different America than the rest of us do.
That’s true in the broadest sense: Two-thirds of the political class believe the country is moving in the right direction, while 84 percent of other Americans think we’re headed the wrong way, according to a Rasmussen Reports opinion poll earlier this month.
But the divide between government and the governed goes deeper than these momentary feelings. It shows up in our paychecks as well.
Last week USA Today reported that the average federal civilian employee earns twice as much in salary and benefits as the average private-sector worker. These federal workers are paid 61 percent more than the rest of us and receive almost four times as much in retirement and other benefits.
President Barack Obama has proposed an across-the-board pay raise of 1.4 percent next year for these 2 million workers, at a cost of $2.2 billion. The USA Today story noted that this would be the smallest federal pay hike in a decade.
To those whose pay has been frozen for a while now, a raise of “only” 1.4 percent doesn’t sound like much of a sacrifice.
But hey, don’t blame the feds for feeling like they’re getting shortchanged this year: Even adjusted for inflation, their pay has climbed almost 37 percent since 2000, or four times faster than wages for the rest of us.
Despite Obama’s new, ahem, restraint on salaries, it doesn’t look as if this gap will get narrower anytime soon.
On Thursday, I searched the federal government’s employment website, USAJobs.gov, for openings in metro Atlanta.
A search for jobs in my ZIP code turned up 169 listings from the North Carolina border to the Florida line, even though the search was supposed to be within a 20-mile radius (that’s close enough for government work, I guess).
A dozen jobs listed no salary figure. Of the other 157, a staggering 110 were for more than the average wage in their county, according to the latest federal data. Add the greater value of public benefits, and 144 of the 157 were above average.
And these are just minimums — each of the 157 listings had a pay scale based on factors like experience, and I’ve cited the bottom of these ranges. But for 92 of the jobs, the scale topped out above $100,000.
Some openings were for jobs like epidemiologists at the Centers for Disease Control, which you’d expect to pay better than the average job in DeKalb County. But there were also jobs like the one paying up to $85,000 a year for a maintenance mechanic supervisor in Calhoun, where the average annual wage is less than $35,000.
No wonder the political/bureaucratic class thinks we have it so good.
And no wonder the political/bureaucratic class thinks the answer to problems ranging from health care to Wall Street is to hire more bureaucrats and give more power to politicians. From their vantage point, the world works pretty well.
But when you’re one of the millions of Americans who earns half as much as a federal bureaucrat simply because your employer has to answer to market conditions and his doesn’t, things aren’t so rosy.
Ditto if you’re one of the millions more who pays for his salary regardless of whether he provides you with a service — much less whether you think that service is valuable.
The political class likes to talk about whether we can countenance a new age of austerity. What its members don’t realize is that, for many of the rest of us, it’s already here.
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290 comments Add your comment
booger
August 14th, 2010
1:08 pm
Don’t care much for Brooks, and I am not surprised that you base your statement that most conservatives rely on Rush, Sean and Glenn, on a study by academics, liberal no doubt. The fact is these are talking heads who get most of their input from others who are well studied in their fields. I would say most conservatives would look to sources like Gingrich and Levin for a more philosophical opinion.
Since you seem to equate intellectualism with degree level and institutional prestige, I will share that I have worked in a research lab environment which was almost exclusively Phds. I commented to the Lab Director once that to be so smart, many of the scientist required a lot of help with everyday situations. He explained that getting a Phd is the process of learning more and more about less and less. A particle physicist for example, has spent a great deal of their time in a world very few can comprehend or understand, but they have done so at the expense of social skills, and general everyday knowledge.
The point was that their is a place for everyone. You wouldn’t hire a Mechanic to build an atomic reactor, and you would hire a physicist to work on your car. To think the Phd is better at all things is intellectual elitism.
DawgDad
August 14th, 2010
1:12 pm
“How can you or anyone defend this lack of intellectual substance in the leading figures of American conservatism? ”
By dismissing your false premise. Get it? Or is that too shallow for your superior “intellect”?
Del
August 14th, 2010
1:20 pm
Conservatism needs some Intellect,
Clearly you don’t understand conservatism. Conservatives in sharp contrast to liberals, which presumably you are, don’t fall on every word spoken or written by George Will, Brooks or for that matter Beck, Limbaugh nor Hannity as do many on the left follow every word uttered by left wing pundits. Over on the Bookman blog the far majority are left wing bloggers who cut and paste or provide links to far left journalists or op ed commentators and call that proof of the correctness for their position on issues. I call it the lemming mentality that drives far-left ideology. Conservatives, which BTW most Americans identify themselves as such come with a variety of views on a variety of issues. The common bond, however, is the belief that America is a great country with a great history and culture that needs no transformation. Most identify themselves as believers in God and although may not be practicing Christians themselves. They do, however, for the most part agree that this country was founded on Christian Judeo beliefs. Most conservatives, while for the most part may not be “intellectual conservatives” per say, do consider themselves to be traditionalists and offended that some would challenge their deep belief in this country and wish to transform it into something far apart from their cultural values. This probably explains Obama and far- lefts disconnect with the American majority as evidenced in the polls.
Not So Casual Observer
August 14th, 2010
1:38 pm
Conservatism needs…
A few of your gems:
“…invoke mindless claims and rhetoric about “death panels,” “socialism,” “government takeover,” Obama is a “Muslim,” who wasn’t born in the United States and so on.”
How about some proof none of these is true?
Rationing for the elderly = Death Panels
Firing private sector executives and nationalizing private companies = Socialism & Government Takeover
Obama is a Muslim. Show some proof he is not. He has not attended a Christian religious service since January 20, 2009 that I have found. That would include Easter twice and Christmas once if he was only a “now and then” Christian. Obama bows to the King of Saudi Arabia, does not include his wife on trips to Muslim nations (that would be improper in a Muslim) and now sees no problem in a Mosque at (or near) Ground Zero.
“Who wasn’t born in the US” – show me some proof he was, and I do not mean a COLB – show me a Formal Birth Certificate. Why are Clinton and Obama the only recent President’s who refuse to disclose their medical history? Why has Obama spent millions of dollars fighting legal questions about his birth certificate if he has one?
YOU like to dismiss these questions as illiterate or worse but you offer no substantive proof to the contrary.
ANOTHER from Conservatism needs…:
“The “free market” does not hold CEOs accountable at all for the consequences of their mismanagement.”
Try and run that one by the former CEO of Hewlett Packard and there are many others, he is just the most recent. Home Depot would be a more local example.
ANOTHER from Conservatism needs…:
“A few conservatives such as the new editors of the Atlantic Monthly are disturbed by the anger, extremism, and lack of critical thinking on the right and are calling for civility, moderation, and return to evidence and argument so that the GOP isn’t given over entirely to the fringes of the right.”
Do you mean these editors are trying to create some separation between the Libs and Conservatives? Fringe leaders of the Left comprise all of the leaders of the Democrat Party!
ANOTHER from Conservatism needs…:
“When I read the angry, ignorant, semi-literate rants of reactionary cybervigilantes like Danny K, and racist fools like Grand forks who thinks that a Harvard educated lawyer who taught Constitutional law at the University of Chicago for eight years is “an idiotic, retarded, child-like, stupid, in-over-his-head, troglodyte” and that he is a “Muslim” I realize what how a reformed alcoholic and drug addict in Glen Beck with no degree of any kind, no college credits, no journalistic training, no knowledge, and a probable bipolar personality is taken seriously.”
There is no proof, in fact not even one class mate (of 433?) from Columbia remembers Obama, that he is a Harvard educated anything! Obama has stopped release of all record of his education. The name-calling, whether from you or those you attack, I can do without.
I know little of Glen Beck but if he has indeed come to his position in life from the background you charge – then he should be applauded, not denigrated, for his success whether you agree with his positions or not.
Conservatism needs…, the fall from this lofty mountain on which you have placed yourself would be awful and your ego, the only thing sustaining you apparently, would be shattered. Be careful!
Not So Casual Observer
August 14th, 2010
1:44 pm
Conservatism needs…
One more of your gems:
“Booger, most conservatives, unfortunately, have never heard of George Will let alone watch or read him and similarly for Brooks…”
So you are also a devotee of unsubstantiated generalization?
Willie
August 14th, 2010
1:55 pm
Public sector/private sector implies some kind of parity. Public employment is a way in which we achieve some public good at the expense of the overall economy. Every public sector job depends on value created in by commerce in the economy. Without people taking capital risk in environments of uncertainty in the hope of the gain there is no public sector at all.
jd
August 14th, 2010
1:58 pm
Private sector pay increased by 1.5% this year. So, the fed raisers are in line with both inflation and private sector. But, you failed to mention that state employees received no raises, and have not for 3 years. You are mixing and picking data to suit, wait a minute, what is your point? As someone said earlier, 2/3 businesses fail in the first 3 years… that’s the mark of a really well-run sector!
The State
August 14th, 2010
2:00 pm
Listen to “Conservatism needs some Intellect.” He is smarter than most.
We know that government workers require more money because of their superior intellect. This is especially so in the south. There are many bitter clingers here.
You southernors fight progress. Resistance is futile. Eventually, with our influence, Atlanta will be as successful and progressive as New York or Detroit. Do not fight.
Vote for your state-sponsored Republican or Democratic candidate and just SHUT UP. We will do the rest. And you will continue to pay us.
Get used to it.
May the people bless Obama.
Knock knock
August 14th, 2010
2:10 pm
A full-time secretary for a part-time public hospital board of trustees makes more than $50K, while I, a 25-year professional with a college degree to not. Both seem kind of out of whack.
Knock knock
August 14th, 2010
2:12 pm
The political class caters to those closest to them, lobbyists and bureaucrats. D.C. and state capitals are echo chambers, where distorted views rule.
jm
August 14th, 2010
3:07 pm
Privately contract MARTA bus operations. Step 1.
Moderate Line
August 14th, 2010
3:08 pm
Kyle- You should do a little research into how Rasmussen determines who the Political Class is. Your article implies that it is government workers, however, Rasmussen determines the politcal class by asking three questions
Answer two of the following in the negative and you are in the politcal class.
+Generally speaking, when it comes to important national issues, whose judgment do you trust more – the American people or America’s political leaders?
+Some people believe that the federal government has become a special interest group that looks out primarily for its own interests. Has the federal government become a special interest group?
+Do government and big business often work together in ways that hurt consumers and investors?
Nowhere does it ask are you a government employee. There is no connection. Maybe government employees may more likely to answer negative to two of the three questions. I don’t know.
http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=1248
Left wing management
August 14th, 2010
3:36 pm
1st line: “The public sector sees a totally different America than the rest of us do.”
Right out of the gates, already sounds like it’s straight out of Orwell.
Jeffrey
August 14th, 2010
3:52 pm
What’s a pension?
Weak And Dependent
August 14th, 2010
3:52 pm
Oh “Conservatism needs some intellect”
Please kill my children and take my money and control me and tell me what to do. I only exist for the needs of others. My efforts and my wants are secondary to the general welfare of the collective.
And please butt rape me too. I promise to feebly bend over and succumb to your lustful advances.
ALL HAIL THE PROGRESSIVES. GIVE UNTO THEM YOUR LIFE.
Linda
August 14th, 2010
4:08 pm
There is no political class.
Politicians have no class.
killerj
August 14th, 2010
4:11 pm
You sure Cynthia wasn,t at the skynard concert last night? thought I saw her back stage with Herman Cain…………..
Don't forget
August 14th, 2010
4:22 pm
Jeffrey
August 14th, 2010
3:52 pm
What’s a pension?
It’s what 65% of all Americans had as part of their compensation back in the 60’s to help pay for retirement. They were eliminated to create CEO golden parachutes.
Not So Casual Observer
August 14th, 2010
4:52 pm
The primary difference between private and public sector jobs is that the “employer” in the public sector assumes no risk and is able to extract funding for the jobs at the point of a gun or threat of imprisonment.
The private sector employer assumes the risk of capital along with the risk of a government intent on his destruction, at least which appears to be the case with the current administration.
How are so many of the posters here able to support a President and administration so clearly aiming our government down the same path as Greece? When will you Libs learn that eventually there is no more “other people’s money” to confiscate?
When will you Libs learn that the government, or the Federal Reserve, can not continue to print or create money from nothing? To call you “progressives’ is a gross misuse of the word.
killerj
August 14th, 2010
5:00 pm
Hey dawgdad,doesn,t Uga supply corporate america?(could not pass this one up!)learn how to spell.thwg!
Conservatism needs some intellect
August 14th, 2010
5:02 pm
Dawgdad,
Your earlier “question” put to someone else was a complete straw man and not worthy of any more of a response. And why I am not surprised that you don’t care for a moderate, fairly reasonable conservative such as David Brooks who admits when the other side has made a legitimate point and sometimes even shares their view of some matter?
Of course I expected the stock canard that academic studies are done by liberals rather than accept the results of objective, rigorously done social science aimed at arriving at the most accurate picture of the media-cultural landscape. (By the way one of the people who argues that Beck is the most influential conservative is a libertarian who writes for Reason magazine.) One can bring a horse to the trough but you can’t make them drink and it seems that no matter how much evidence is presented to a typical American conservative they will find some excuse to avoid engaging with it.
Gingrich is not the main source of influence among conservatives in the right wing media in contrast with these two but he is an utterly dogmatic ideologue who resorts to cheap tactics such as referring to the “socialist-secular” agenda in the title of his latest book. No self-respecting intellectual with a pretense of objectivity would write such drivel and it is intended for the same audience of dummies who swallow the swill of Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and Palin hook line and sinker.
No, you are wrong about Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity getting their information from those who are genuine experts as anyone who listens to or reads any of their comments could attest. They seldom cite anyone of note, never give the slightest evidence of having read anything of substance, and make false and inaccurate claims so routinely that it would take books to list them. And again, consider the fact that none has a degree of any kind, none learned to research, write, and report as a part of their “careers” and Beck claims that he only goes to the “library where books are free.” Unfortunately he gives no evidence of having read them. (Whenever I bring this up conservatives either ignore these very important facts or resort to their anti-intellectual name calling as “degrees don’t matter” and “those who can do and those who can’t teach” or “academics are all liberals” and so on, which only shows that they have no value for truth and prefer ideology and wishful thinking.) Their “books” are little more than polished up versions of their nightly rants and they are on the air too much to spend any time doing the research and writing that a responsible person who cared about getting things right would have to do to have anything resembling an informed opinion. Even a political satire program in the Daily Show is able to pick apart these silly people and show the inaccuracy of so much of what pours forth from them on daily basis. The fact that you cannot or won’t recognize the sheer stupidity and ignorance of these people speaks volumes.
Some years ago several journalists at The New Republic magazine listened on one single day to the Limbaugh’s program and took three of his claims at random to research. They contacted Limbaugh’s program before and after they investigated his claims. None of the three could be confirmed. When the writers told those working for Limbaugh the results and offered them a chance to comment they responded “he is an entertainer not a journalist and he cannot be held accountable to journalistic standards.” Of course you will reject that as coming from a “liberal” political magazine even though it was edited by the conservative Andrew Sullivan at the time. When Beck was called on one of his false claims earlier this year he begged off that he was a “commentator” not a journalist. Apparently being a “commentator” on Fox television means little more than having a mike in front of you and saying whatever you feel like regardless of whether you can support it with any evidence.
Some years ago I listened to Limbaugh read an interview with a German scientist attending a global warming conference in New York. The scientist offered carefully qualified claims in which he asserted that global warming was not part of normal cyclical patterns in the climate and that it is caused by human activities and warranted more research. Limbaugh was either so illiterate or locked into his beliefs that he interpreted this scientist as denying global warming! An ordinary 10th grade high school student would have understood what the scientist was saying and you tell me that this idiot actually reads experts or people who have read the relevant literature? Give me a break. 90 seconds of listening to this circus barker should tell anyone with a brain that Limbaugh is a ranting, raving, idiot.
Let’s look at your last straw man misrepresentation. “The point was that their [your spelling] is a place for everyone. You wouldn’t hire a Mechanic to build an atomic reactor, and you would hire a physicist to work on your car. To think the Phd is better at all things is intellectual elitism.”
Gee, when and where did I make or imply the last line? I don’t hold the view that “PhD’s are better at all things” so don’t attribute such a silly view to me. Yes, I have a PhD and everyone I know has heard and used the line about specialization, at least in the sciences, involving knowing more and more about less and less. But the only mention I made of the PhD degree was in reference to George Will who is not an academic but decided to become a journalist who reads widely in many areas.
No, I wouldn’t ask a mechanic or any single individual to build a reactor that wouldn’t be possible and neither would I take seriously any claim or statement about anything under the sun from such profoundly ignorant people like Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and Palin. I “equate intellectualism” as you so awkwardly put it not with institutional prestige, though that is usually earned, but with actually knowing a lot about what you are talking about and being able to support what you say with evidence. And again such abilities are wholly lacking in the above foursome. And yes there is a place for everyone and the place for Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, and Palin is in a three ringed circus.
Conservatism needs some intellect
August 14th, 2010
5:04 pm
Weak and brainless, No, we don’t say give us your life we will leave that to conservative presidents causing young men to lose their lives in unjust wars like Iraq. All we ask for is evidence and argument.
Pam
August 14th, 2010
5:14 pm
Right Ok Kyle. The US goverment is just like Somolia, or Sudan (or fill in whatever country you like), totally non existent and does nothing at all. The people that report for duty just clock in and sit and wait their desks and wait until 5pm to clock out. But yet miraculously somehow your government is up and running and functional, stable, savings lives, defending against enemies protecting it’s citizens. Any idiot who complains about how awful the US government and fed employees are has never been travelled outside the country and never will.
Don't forget
August 14th, 2010
5:14 pm
Conservatism needs some intellect
August 14th, 2010
5:02 pm
AMEN!!! Thanks for posting that.
Linda
August 14th, 2010
5:28 pm
Conservatism, If you really were really smart, you would know that no one reads long posts. You are talking to yourself. Have at it. You will not waste my time.
Good night!
khc
August 14th, 2010
5:30 pm
if public sector pay now outpaces the private sector and it is an honest apple to apple comparison taking into account geographic characteristics then freeze public sector pay or if way out of line make reductions over a short time horizon giving workers some advance warning….because of the greed on wall st a comparison of pension/401k benefits may be more difficult but wage and benefits need to be compared…..also an public accountant in Greensboro, NC should not make the same money as one in DC….i think the fed pay schedule should offer lower salaries, but offer minor adjustments for high cost of living areas….
Conservatism needs some intellect
August 14th, 2010
5:38 pm
Not casual observer (or non-observer would be a better handle)
You are a superb example of what I have been talking about. Obama is a Harvard law school graduate who edited the law review there. He taught Constitutional law at the University of Chicago as an adjunct professor for eight years. So, I suppose that his vast conspiracy to cover up his undergraduate record fooled both Harvard and U of C and everyone else. Funny that one of my old girlfriends and current brother in law who studied at Columbia both remember him. And I suppose the birth certificate and announcement in the newspaper were planted there 49 years ago so Obama could become the first Muslim president. Are you really as insane as you sound? I no more have to refute this absurd list of claims anymore than I have to respond to the loons who claim that we didn’t send Apollo missions to the moon. Obama doesn’t have to prove anything about his past which is already well documented (though you couldn’t care less) the burden of proof is on you wingnuts to prove your silly conspiracies. I am going to post one response below which of course you and others who share your Alice in Wonderland reality can dismiss as coming from a liberal (though he isn’t) and waste no more time with you. I teach ethics in a college and sometimes we treat issues in biomedical ethics. One of the leading figures in the entire country in this field wrote this about Sara Palin’s “death panel” claims and you can treat it however you will:
There is not a single statement in the voluminous number of pages under study that contains the slightest consideration, no matter its remoteness, of death panels, euthanasia, or any such fearsome concept.
In reality, the legislation simply calls for the reimbursement of physicians who counsel patients on end-of-life decision-making–counseling that is already required by a 1990 law and that is now covered by many insurance plans. But the specifics of the present bill are irrelevant to the loony conversation the right has sparked during the August recess. After all, even if there were some provision before Congress that could conceivably be interpreted as establishing a “death panel,” centuries, if not millennia, of established medical ethics (in addition to existing U.S. law) would prevent its actualization. In the midst of this crucial debate on the future of health care, somehow, the proponents of the euthanasia talking point seem to have forgotten everything we know about the practice of medicine in America….
the notion of forced euthanasia would contradict the long-held body of medical ethics to which all American doctors must adhere… Even if some wild-eyed legislator, special interest group, or purposeful troublemaker were to ignore the personal ethical behavior that has long been among individual and organized medicine’s strongest influences, no bill could legally include any deadly provision of the kind being bruited about. In 1990, responding to several high-profile court cases–notably, those of Karen Ann Quinlan and Nancy Cruzan, two young women in deep and irreversible comas who were kept on life support for unconscionably long periods, even as their families petitioned for cessation month after month–Congress mandated that any health care institution receiving Medicare or Medicaid funding (which means all but a very few acute and chronic care hospitals) must, on admission, provide patients with three statements: one outlining their right to accept or refuse any type of treatment; another laying out their right to issue advance directives to ensure that their wishes about continuing life-sustaining therapy be carried out; and a third explaining any policies that govern the institution’s withholding or withdrawal of life-supportive treatments…. In order for patients to make knowledgeable decisions under the 1990 law, it is essential that they thoroughly discuss with their physicians the implications of the directives they are choosing, such as “do not resuscitate” orders. H.R. 3200 would, for the first time, legislate that the physician receive a fee for these discussions, making it more likely that they will take place and that they will be of real substance. From these provisions of the bill, the ignorant, the nefarious, and the just plain stupid have extrapolated that the purpose of the periodic consultations is really to determine life or death, with government officials and even physicians–heaven forfend–taking on the role of Dr. Mengele. It is ironic that the very legislation designed to protect patient autonomy is that from which Sarah Palin and her ilk have derived the fantastical notion that her son, Trig, who has Down syndrome, would be euthanized if H.R. 3200 were passed.
Even if such a gruesome threat were real, the combination of morality, ethics, and the law would stop it early in its malodorous tracks. The entire issue–or non-issue, which it surely is–contains the ingredients of travesty unworthy not only of the attention of the bioethics community, but of the general public as well.
Sherwin B. Nuland, the author of How We Die, is Clinical Professor of Surgery at Yale University and a member of the Executive Committee of The Yale Interdisciplinary Center for Bioethics. Sarah Palin, meet Hippocrates in The New Republic, September 2, 2009
Conservatism needs some intellect
August 14th, 2010
5:40 pm
Linda, ok,I will keep it short for your attention span. You conservatives are in general, ignorant and too intellectually lazy or incompetent to repair your ignorance by reading anything here or elsewhere of any length.
jd
August 14th, 2010
6:05 pm
Everyone is talking past themselves. Has anyone noticed that Kyle’s evidence is not in sync with his argument and that his argument fails to be logical? These posts are like throwing red meat to hungry wolves who compete for a short term gain while the real problems encircle the pack. In the long run, continued non-civil discourse will be the death of this country.
Conservatism needs some intellect
August 14th, 2010
6:10 pm
You’re welcome, Don’t forget,
Del,
I based my claim regarding the influence of Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity on studies in political science, media communications, and sociology which have voluminous data on audiences and public attitudes to draw from. You based your laughable claim about “lemming” leftists on anecdotal evidence and your own prejudice. By the way in the past I saw conservatives post daily from cut and paste lines directly from Limbaugh’s webpage every time I had a look and they would repeat what he said in a post right after his program concluded. This was pointed out by others all the time. Too stupid to think for themselves or use on their own words? The influence of these guys is so widespread that the GOP website for years had a tab on its homepage linking directly to a list of two dozen talk shows with Limbaugh at the top, followed by Hannity, O’Reilly and the rest and their phone numbers. If you were a real “dittohead” as Rush’s fans (talk about “lemmings” who would refer to themselves as “dittoheads”?), often call themselves or too dumb to think of something to say the right hand column had a list of “talking points” to raise when you phoned in. Since the falling out between Steele and Limbaugh they have moved his name from first to the last on the list.
So my anecdotal evidence, such as what we see posted here today by conservatives, is quite different but a much better and source of evidence is what I cited in the first sentence.
I would also invite you to consider how the GOPs talking points are developed in think tanks along with the language to express their views and then repeated verbatim by GOP politicians, Fox’s people, and talk radio blowhards. Bob Lutz gives them nearly every phrase they use, over and over and over again. I see no such similarity on the left. I see three idiots in Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity virtually brainwashing 20 million or more a day and when I view, as I seldom do, Maddow and Matthews on MSNBC I see left wing views intelligently expressed by people with some knowledge and credentials. Why is it that conservatives top opinion person is a reformed drunk and drug addict with no education formal or otherwise while Maddow has a PhD from Oxford in politics and Matthews is a well educated guy with a wealth of practical political experience, journalistic experience, and a good education?
The truth is that most of us on the left read widely, read critically, and rely on no single source for our views. Some may do so but nothing to the degree one finds on the right.
No, the polls are not reflective or expressed by some supposed conservative majority. The GOP is not doing well in the polls and most of the discontent is against incumbents in general. In the short run the GOP will benefit and then probably lose the general election in 2012…especially if they are dumb enough to nominate Palin. Please, please nominate Palin, please nominate the unelectable twit.
Annie Rhys-Davis
August 14th, 2010
6:17 pm
Wow! So the rude, ignorant , gumsnapping ‘lady’ on the other end of the phone when I make a call to the GA state gov. earns more than her counterpart in the private secter?? Obviously, she is worth it! She has the smarts to game the system-get a job where competence is irrelevant and she cannot be fired. She wins. Honest taxpayers lose. Oh, should we speak of her pension? YOu know the one her neighbors are paying for?
Kyle Wingfield
August 14th, 2010
6:26 pm
Well, what can I say, Needs Some Intellect? You got me: Your “millions working in fast food chains, landscaping and gardening” — along with all the other people in their industries more broadly — do bring down the average private sector wage. By 6 percent.
http://bit.ly/dxX8zd (requires some fairly simple math)
As for the other omissions you harp on — such as your laughable attempt to pass off the outrageous tenure of John Thain at BoA as “a common story,” and your only slightly tangential rant about health care, which might be germane to a comparison of federal civilian vs. private-sector pay if not for the fact, as is clearly stated in the USA Today story, the bulk of federal benefit costs are due to pensions. Well, I suppose some of that could potentially have made it into the piece had I attempted a wide-ranging article about all of the inequities in American life, or an evaluation of the CDC. Instead, I wrote very specifically about the fact that the federal government, bound by nothing more than the political class’s own modesty (or lack thereof), has continued to let the compensation for its workers soar at precisely the same time that the compensation of most taxpayers, who fund their salaries, has flattened out.
That’s a thesis which, by the way, you have hardly refuted, much less done so decisively. You did, however, manage to inject plenty of the ideological bias that you so evidently detest.
Should you use this column when teaching, however, I hope you’ll do me and your students the favor of passing along my advice to them: Next time, take the class from a professor rather than a TA.
Linda
August 14th, 2010
6:32 pm
Conservatism, there you go again. Kyle writes the articles. We merely comment. Got it?
I have a science degree from one of the largest universities in the southeastern US but a BS, let alone a master’s or PHD does not always trump common sense. Anyone who passed third grade & has any common sense whatsoever knows that air (specifically carbon dioxide) does not cause global warming & that without it or without enough of it, we all die. Only an idiot would believe that politicians can control it as they have promised.
I know the progressive agenda.
jd
August 14th, 2010
6:38 pm
Kyle — Fed raise = 1.4%; private sector salaries increased 1.5% according to data collected ending Jun 30, 2101 — so much for your thesis.
jd
August 14th, 2010
6:39 pm
errata – 2010
Kyle Wingfield
August 14th, 2010
6:41 pm
The comparison was for a decade, not a year, jd, but thanks anyway.
Annie Rhys-Davis
August 14th, 2010
6:47 pm
Enter your comments here
jd
August 14th, 2010
7:30 pm
Kyle — your last note was right. So, I dug into the source of your data. You are comparing apples and oranges — here is why (source is BEA):
There are a number of factors that explain why average compensation for federal government non-postal civilian employees is higher than average compensation for private-sector employees.
* The mix of occupations held by federal government civilian employees is different from that of occupations held by the entire private-sector workforce. The private-sector workforce are in a wider range of jobs than federal government employees — from minimum-wage positions to highly paid CEOs. According to studies conducted by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), jobs in the federal government civilian workforce are concentrated in professional (e.g., lawyers, accountants, and economists), administrative, and technical occupations.1 In addition, skill levels and educational attainment tend to be higher, on average, for federal government civilian employees than for private-sector employees because of the occupational requirements in the federal government.2
* Over the past several years, there has been a shift in federal employment toward higher-skilled, higher-paid positions because lower-skilled (and lower-paid) positions have been contracted out to private industries.1 This trend has contributed to higher average pay for federal government civilian employees than for private-sector employees.
* On average, federal government employees receive higher benefits in the form of pensions and health insurance contributions than private-sector employees; some private-sector employees receive no benefits.
* Moreover, federal compensation estimates include sizable payments for unfunded liabilities that distort comparisons with private-sector compensation. For 2006, for example, the value of these payments for unfunded liability was $28.6 billion or 10.7 percent of total federal civilian compensation. Please see the FAQ “How does BEA treat federal payments to the Military and Civil Service Retirement Funds?” for more information on payments for unfunded liabilities.
jd
August 14th, 2010
7:34 pm
As to unfunded liabilities, (also known as OPEB – Other Post Employment Benefits like insurance for retirees, unfunded pensions, etc) – Graham-Leach-Blilely required public and private sector organizations to acknowledge those liabilities as part of the movement towards transparency. While many have acknowledged, most public sector orgs have failed to fund OPEB (Georgia’s obligations alone are in tens of billions). Private sector organizations have written them off through bankruptcy, and other means.
Linda
August 14th, 2010
7:48 pm
jd, You can spin it anyway you like, but the fact is that the American taxpayers cannot afford the fed. govt. The states cannot afford their employees. The fed. govt cannot afford the states. American companies can’t afford their unions. What’s your solution? Monetizing the debt which we are now doing, which will cause hyperinflation?
Conservatism needs some intellect
August 14th, 2010
7:50 pm
Kyle,
I also included Walmart which is the largest private employer in the world and in the United States in a later post which I think alters the picture somewhat don’t you? The government does not have millions of retail and fast food workers so your whole article is a non-starter and is indeed like comparing apples and organs. The comparisons of averages here means little since the functions of each sector are different, the percentage of the workforce constituted by the federal government minus the military is around 2% of the total. It is illegitimate to compare entities which are different in so many ways.
I think you missed my point in invoking the CDC and others in that your tendentious selections of occupations, facts, figures, constitute part of the stereotypical attack on government which is one of the favorites of conservatives who seldom look into the details which do not fit their view. Indeed, the story about the Bank of America is all too typical. And your bias in calling federal employees “the political class” is what is laughable…and stupid. You may bamboozle the conservatives here but I see you as a supercilious young man and a journalistic fraud. The AJC has gone to a hell in basket and it is this kind of Fox level economics and other such concessions to the most reactionary members of the AJC readership which led me to drop my subscription years ago and occasionally visit online at most.
I don’t take classes anymore and haven’t in years. I give them as a professor.
Conservatism needs some intellect
August 14th, 2010
7:56 pm
Good job, jd, glad you had the time to offer more specific details of the sort I was speaking of more generally.
Linda, I don’t know exactly what you are trying to say but I you don’t seem to know anything about global warming. It is a well corroborated thesis in science which can be ignored or responded to in various ways. I would politely suggest reading the little book in the OUP’s series short introductions to…, which includes a volume on global warming explaining the mechanisms for its measurement, how it is produced, and just look at it as an empirical issue and try to set aside the ritualistic invocation of the “progressive agenda” every time you hear something you don’t like.
Conservatism needs some intellect
August 14th, 2010
8:01 pm
Anne, his article was about federal government employees who are generally I think better paid than those in state governments for the same or similar positions. I get plenty of “gum snapping” rudeness from those working in the service occupations in the private sector as well.
The truth is that too many conservative journalists, “commentators,” and “talk show” hosts and most conservatives who post here start with their ideology and it provides the framework which determines the facts that they choose. We all have perspectives and frameworks through which we in part see the world but when you look for what fits your view, in this case the stock hatred of government held by so many conservatives, then you are merely engaging in confirmation bias.
John Thomas
August 14th, 2010
8:10 pm
Linda, whether global warming is a creation of human activities and how it is exactly caused are not matters for common sense but for scientific specialists in the appropriate field or fields. The third grade remark is obnoxious and makes you look foolish as well as the gratuitous comment by the “progressive agenda.” Why not just address the scientific issues with scientific evidence? Common sense tells us little about the details and causes operating in the natural world and constitutes little more than arm chair speculation.
Del
August 14th, 2010
8:11 pm
I think Conservative needs some intellect, sadly needs some intellect.
Linda
August 14th, 2010
8:35 pm
Conservatism @ 7:56, I’m not TRYING to say anything. I SAID it. You have no common sense or you will not admit to the truth. I read about global cooling in the ’70’s, global warming in the ’90’s & climate change in the ’00’s.
The American people were able to trust their govt. (up to a point) for decades. They didn’t HAVE to pay attention on a day to day basis. Not any more! Americans, as gullible as they were, for electing a community organizer for president, have awakened! I’ve lived though over a dozen adms. I’ve never seen the American people so awake & angry, protesting in the streets!
This is a conservative blog. There’s no one on the fence here tonight whose opinion you can sway. Just give it up & go watch MSNBC for some more unfair & unbalanced, they decide rhetoric. You are still wasting your time.
khc
August 14th, 2010
8:36 pm
that was a pithy statement not
jd
August 14th, 2010
8:39 pm
Linda — stating the context of the survey that Kyle is using is not spin. The explanation I posted comes from the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Bush accelerated the privatization of the federal work force leaving the highly paid, highly qualified workers as an increasing majority of the federal workforce (source CATO Institute). So, you have epidemiologists, PhD codebreakers, and others making up a larger percentage of the paid workforce while the typists, secretaries and clerks are no longer employed (actually, they now work for federal contractors who mark up their salaries 300% and then charge the taxpayers — but that is another story).
jd
August 14th, 2010
8:44 pm
Linda, I will acknowledge that so long as people close their minds to discussion, as you make clear by inviting anyone not to agree with you to take their thoughts elsewhere, this republic will fail.
No More Progressives!
August 14th, 2010
9:04 pm
Don’t forget
August 14th, 2010
11:42 am
BTW, it takes no managerial talent whatsover to send jobs overseas to get 80 cent/hr wages.
So what are you doing here?