Atlanta schools cheating probe missed big life lessons
When I was 8 or 9 years old, I witnessed a petty crime in my basement: my friend Michael stole one of my friend Gavin’s prized baseball cards. I didn’t tell Gavin or anyone else.
But Gavin realized something was wrong when he got home, and soon my parents were questioning me. I confessed to keeping quiet and was punished. Michael got his, too. The clear lesson was that the adults in our world wouldn’t accept dishonesty.
I wonder what lesson is being learned by the children at Venetian Hills Elementary School. Here is what some of them told the adults who investigated cheating on the state’s Criterion-Referenced Competency Tests in Atlanta Public Schools, as reported by the AJC last Sunday:
“One student, who spoke to investigators with his mother, said that during the 2009 CRCT, his teacher pointed to specific lines on his test sheet and then whispered that he should erase his answers. The student said he saw the same teacher using similar techniques to give answers to others. …
“Another student said … that a teacher simply announced the correct answers during testing.
“‘For example,’ the child said the teacher told the class, ‘No. 35 is “A.’ ”
“Yet another student said on the tape his mother — a teacher at Venetian Hills — instructed him to keep quiet about the cheating in his classroom.
“ ‘I better not tell anyone else’ or his teacher ‘could get fired,’ the boy said his mother told him.”
Actually, I don’t have to wonder very much or very long. The clear lesson is that the adults in these children’s world accept dishonesty and, when confronted with accusations, will lie, hide the truth and shift blame onto others.
How else to explain that none of the adults in their school — not one — has owned up to any wrongdoing?
And how else to explain that the adults investigating the cheating, despite having heard these tales from Venetian Hills, spoke with just a dozen students and parents — combined — across the entire school system?
The panel members were charged with finding out what happened at Venetian Hills and 57 other schools in Atlanta. Their “key findings” boil down to: “Beverly Hall didn’t do it!”
That wasn’t the question that Gov. Sonny Perdue and his staff asked of them after an examination of millions of test answer sheets of students across the state suggested widespread cheating in APS. But their answer does show where their interest in this exercise lay.
Our whistle-blowing students also got a lesson in the ways of the adults in their world from Superintendent Hall’s own response to the inquiry, which boils down to: “100 suspects at 25 schools don’t represent anything systemic; and let’s just forget about those other 33 schools, shall we?”
There is one more adult who has a chance to do right by these students, their classmates and others in APS.
That’s Perdue.
The APS approach to the test-cheating allegations, aside from protecting Hall, has long smacked of trying to run out the clock on a lame-duck governor — and hoping his successor was less interested in what exactly happened.
That led to a report that deserves an “incomplete” at best.
Perdue may have less than five months remaining in office, but that’s plenty of time to bring us the rest of the APS story.
My recommendation? Talk to as many students in the affected classrooms as possible.
If nothing else, they need to know that some adult, somewhere, cares about the life lessons they’re getting from the CRCT.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
100 comments Add your comment
RF
August 11th, 2010
9:03 pm
Unfortunately Kyle, children’s testimony isn’t exactly reliable, albeit probably true in this case. What’s troubling isn’t that the adults won’t fess up to what caused this in the first place. The problem is that not a single person in the system will tell the whole story about why these people felt it necessary to cheat. The lesson here is that one cannot give in to pressure to do wrong, no matter the potential backlash- or reward- from those whose butts you’re covering. Just as you learned that hiding your friend’s crime didn’t pay, the entire system has to learn that they can’t cover for those who created the pressure cooker environment that led so many to cheat. I wonder what is so special about Beverly and her regime that keeps people from telling the whole story. I bet somebody will start talking soon, though.
Kyle the advocate
August 11th, 2010
9:25 pm
Kyle you are 100% on the money here. If there is a single best chance left for Sonny Perdue to leave an education legacy here in Georgia, it’s to step in and help get to the bottom of this and restore some trust in the integrity of the system.
But what really would take guts and real leadership on Perdue’s part is to offer immunity to anyone willing to tell the truth about exactly how high up people knew about the cheating, and turned a blind eye to it. Don’t turn this into finding a few convenient foot soldiers to take the fall; go after the generals as well.
Agreed Kyle?
christian
August 11th, 2010
10:20 pm
oh please KYLE…u got some nerve, u support NATHAN DEAL even though he was named one of the 15 most corrupt congressmen in WASHINGTON…u will vote for this crook simply because hes a republican…what lessons would this teach the school children you claimed to be so concerned about?
Tammie
August 11th, 2010
10:38 pm
Cheating!!!!! let’s talk cheating these kids have been cheated for so long within this APS system. Now that we have some people doing their jobs and someone who is making sure that the job is been done.It’s a big problem no one came to see if they where learning when the kids where being pass on without knowing how to read for years, are when the school where about to fall down with no heat, and the teacher and kids were getting shot down inside the school. Now that Mr. Sonny and his Erase FRIENDS can’t Get their hand on the THE TAXS DOLLARS anymore. We are cutting our kids short and the whole f#######k world cares what happen to the Kids in the HOOD now. LoL Stop it just not fair MRS. Hall is doing a great job and her Staff is to it’s all POLITICAL keep the kids out of it. Don’t cheat yourselves.
Lee
August 11th, 2010
11:51 pm
The fact of the matter is that it is left up to the parents to pack the APS school board meetings and DEMAND accountability by the BOE members and Superintendent Beverly Hall. Until that happens, nothing will be done, the BOE and Hall will go into CYA mode, and APS will continue to graduate “Honor Students” with a 5th grade education.
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/08/08/how-can-a-student-graduate-in-the-top-of-her-high-school-class-and-have-the-equivalent-of-a-5th-grade-education/
CJ
August 12th, 2010
1:00 am
Hmm. My comment didn’t post.
Will you please keep an eye out for it, Kyle?
CJ
August 12th, 2010
1:00 am
AJC: “But investigators conducted only cursory reviews of most of the other 46 Atlanta schools flagged by the state last February for suspicious scores on the CRCT, the all-important measure of student achievement and school effectiveness.”
The all-important measure? The CRCT? Please.
This quote, from the AJC article that Kyle linked to, again ignored significantly improved graduation rates (around 30 percent), increases in the number of college scholarships to APS graduates (approximately doubled) and continually improving scores on the NAEP test (aka: “Nation’s Report Card” — more rigorous than the CRCT and administered by authorities outside the school district)—all of which have occurred under Beverly Hall’s tenure. In short, the evidence of improvement in APS under her guidance is widespread and overwhelming. There’s no motive for some kind of coordinated cheating from within the Superintendent’s office. It would be like accusing Shaquille O’Neal of wearing lifts.
In addition, Kyle ’s interpretation of Hall’s statement, published on the APS website, is grossly misleading when he writes “…Superintendent Hall’s own response to the inquiry…boils down to: ‘100 suspects at 25 schools don’t represent anything systemic; and let’s just forget about those other 33 schools…” I suggest reading the statement to interpret for yourself.
In this matter, Governor Perdue needs to continue doing what he’s been doing for the last eight years—not a thing.
RTW
August 12th, 2010
1:13 am
What blows my mind is the amount of nepotism; especially in Dekalb, APS and throughout the metro area. Qualifications?: Evidently relatives, friends and church associates. This has been going on for a long time and is finally being red flagged. What a complete abuse of mostly minority power in metro school boards and administration. Revisit the time honored attributes of educators and leaders. Service, Integrity, Honesty. Respect is earned, not bestowed. It’s not all about the Benjamins. How about personal responsibility and empowerment? Focus on your elected mandate, the kids! Make a stand. Only then will you truly move forward.
Lulu
August 12th, 2010
1:53 am
Mrs. Hill is guilty of Not calling for the immediate resignation of all the cheating teachers but merely reassigned them to other schools. Parents won’t pack BOE meetings because they only want the use of the schools as babysitters. Taxpayers must pressure the licensing board to take away the cheaters’ licenses and if they do not Perdue needs to replace the board before his term ends.
Reality
August 12th, 2010
4:28 am
I totally agree. APS is corrupt from top down. Not each individual, but the culture is currupt. This started with Hall and her grand plan to ‘change education.’ Her changes resulted in nothing more than tons of wasted money and cheating on tests to ‘prove’ that her way works.
She has traveled the nation touting ‘her way’ getting paid tons to speak. Now, she is caught with her pants down and shifting blame to everyone else.
Geodude
August 12th, 2010
7:18 am
There should also be some investigation on why these teachers felt the need to cheat. I don’t support the cheating but I wonder why there were not outside proctors giving these tests and not in-house teachers. Teachers’ jobs and salaries were made dependent on the students’ scores on this test. Is a CEO’s pay tied to the share price of the company? Does the governor’s salary depend upon tax receipts? Does your salary, Kyle, go up and down based on how many people read and comment on your articles? Yes, cheating is wrong, but we place way too much emphasis on teacher’s abilities and not on the personal responsibilities of the students. Was there cheating at rich suburban schools? No, they don’t have to cheat because parents and students there take responsibility and the teachers are not the scapegoats.
Horrible Horrace
August 12th, 2010
8:06 am
If this is true then every teacher and administrator involved should be fired or suffer a 15% PERMANENT PAY REDUCTION.
Horrible Horrace
August 12th, 2010
8:07 am
Beverly Hall isnt worth the effort is would take to squeeze out a wet *POOT*.
JohnnyReb
August 12th, 2010
8:39 am
KYLE…u got some nerve, u support NATHAN DEAL even though he was named one of the 15 most corrupt congressmen in WASHINGTON…
christian – that 15 most corrupt congressmen report is on a liberal site paid for by George, I have big liberal money, Soros. This is still America, Deal deserves the courtesy of the law – innocent until found guilty. If he broke the law, then he should be held accountable in court.
Not So Casual Observer
August 12th, 2010
8:41 am
There is a segment of society committed to supporting their own without regard to the honesty or capability of the individual. We are forced, by Political Correctness, to stand by as these thieves steal from the taxpayers and now from the families forced to send their children to the Atlanta Public Schools. These thieves steal money at all levels and now they are stealing the future of the children by providing sub-standard educational opportunities.
The pervasiveness of the cheating proves the instruction to “pad” the results of the CRCT came from the administration of the school system. One must ignore the obvious to conclude otherwise.
The problems in the Atlanta and DeKalb systems call for a thorough house cleaning, unfortunately the friends in government of these crooks will continue to cover for them and hope the next charge of theft or corruption will make this fall off the citizens radar.
Not So Casual Observer
August 12th, 2010
8:44 am
christian,
You are an example of my post at 8:41am.
By the way, the small “c” is very appropriate.
uhoh
August 12th, 2010
8:56 am
What’s missing is a mass “perp” walk with all of the cheaters heading to jail. “Re-assigned” is not an acceptable outcome for something so egregious.
Willing to bet that 100% of them were “persons of color.”
Glenn Beck
August 12th, 2010
8:57 am
Glenn Beck keeps invoking George Washington’s icon when he fingers possible GOP leaders. He need look no further than Kyle “I cannot tell a lie” Wingfield.
nelson
August 12th, 2010
9:02 am
When I was a young lad, my mother was a teacher, my teacher, she would monitor test taking. She would walk around the room making sure every thing was on the up and up. When she got to my desk and looked at my test sheet there were quite a few wrong answers, she sureptiously pointed them out. Consequently, I did better on the test. I graduated with a high average, which was little of my own efforts. It all came out, my skill level, when I was in a college english class, and I wrote an essay that was about on the third grade level. The Professor asked me to read it, he thought I was putting him on with the child like work. The other students did not even laugh, they were sooooo stunned.
JohnnyReb
August 12th, 2010
9:02 am
Kyle, one thing that jumped out of the AJC report in Sunday’s paper was, all the schools under investigation have 90% or greater of their students on the free/reduced meal program. One school was 100%. One might ask what that has to do with cheating on tests? The answer is, either poverty touches a large portion of families in Atlanta, or there is cheating on more than just tests. I suspect the later.
jm
August 12th, 2010
9:07 am
Deal may not be guilty (yet), but why in the hell would the Republicans want a candidate that is even being investigated? Haven’t we had enough of corruption? And now the Republican nominee for Governor stinks of it.
I’ll have to vote for Roy simply because I’ve had it up to my ears with corruption. At least Roy’s not corrupt. He’s also too rich to be corruptible, which is nice (ie, no one can buy him off because he’s already got plenty of dough).
jm
August 12th, 2010
9:10 am
JohnnyReb- you’re putting the wrong facts together. The connection that the article was making was that the poor schools with lots of free lunches are poorer, less well educated by their parents, thus performing poorly on the tests, leading to teachers cheating because they’re dishonest and wanted their bonuses (or whatever incentive compensation they have).
Which you obviously know. But I just thought I’d respond to your ridiculous statement.
Atlanta Education Fund is Hall Fan Club
August 12th, 2010
9:18 am
Finally, someone has seen and reported what the motives of the Atlanta Education Fund, the “blue ribbon” investigation, and the administration of APS has been all along in this response to the rampant cheating at APS. It has never been about the children. It has never been about finding the truth and punishing those responsible. The whole of the efforts thus far has been a public relations push to remove Beverly Hall from any and all responsibility for these untold numbers of cheating. And we really have no idea, yet, of the extent of these scandals. What would we learn if we also checked the answer sheets for the last five years, for example. This cheating didn’t just “pop-up” this past year. I used to think the board of the Atlanta Education Fund were the “leaders” of our community–both in business and education. I thought they were independent thinkers as they have all obviously been extremely successful in their businesses (John Rice for example). Now I see that they are either blind to the obvious truth or as scandalously guilty as Beverly Hall for working to make this nightmare go away without any real and honest approach to fixing this. Thanks Kyle, for your courage of speaking the truth. No one seems to be willing to do the same thing.
StJ
August 12th, 2010
9:26 am
The cheaters should be fired and prosecuted. However, that will never happen unless an outside entity forces the issue; the APS is just as corrupt as the rest of city government.
Anyone want to do some advertising at the airport?
Larry
August 12th, 2010
9:43 am
I see nothing wrong with the way this investigation was conducted and have yet to read any legitimate criticism that it was biased or ignored evidence. Investigating schools that had little or no evidence of wrongdoing would mean taking limited resources away from schools where compelling evidence exists. That’s nonsensical.
The Commission could only put up a hot line; they couldn’t make people call it. There is no shortage of anonymous posters who have all kinds of “facts,” yet their righteous indignation is suspiciously quelled when given the opportunity to put their name on these “facts” and report the wrongdoing they “know” occurred.
I’m not sure what method anyone would use to compel testimony from young children who don’t want to co-operate, but it’s a terrifying notion.
Speaking of honesty, the specific incidents mentioned in this post are attributed to an AJC article. What this post doesn’t mention, is that this AJC article was based on the Commission’s report. It’s irony in its finest hour.
Hall hacks desperate
August 12th, 2010
9:44 am
This is how desperate the Hall sycophants are-straight from the pages of the AJC:
“But there is nothing to suggest she has done anything other than exactly what she promised: to improve our schools. Nor is there any indication cheating is more widespread in APS than in other large systems.”
No indication that cheating is more widespread in Atlanta, than in Cobb, or in Fulton, or in Gwinnett? So why didn’t the AJC do a bunch of stories about the dozens of schools on the “severe concern” list in those systems?
Hall sycophants, before you answer that question, you might want to consider the reason they didn’t is that those systems didn’t have dozens of schools on that list.
Paulo 977
August 12th, 2010
9:47 am
christian and Tammie…INDEED , what hypocrites we all are! Who are the real cheaters in this society?Do we even know that we gave the world a different model of learning /teaching from the old British restricted elite oriented model ? Testing and the necessity of rigorous monitoring,especially in the primary schools, have no place in an environment that is supposed to “nurture” not “torture”… The school system as it stands now is punitive with imposible unrealistic state standards , crappy tests,and unfair treatment of personnel involved in trying to balance what they know to be sound ‘education ‘ and system demands .This all really started with Reagan as the 70’s had been an innovative, invigorating era where the emphasis was on encouraging learners to inquire and ‘THINK’ not rote learn!! But then that would would not maintain the societal pyramid would it ? There would be too too many of us who would have to be accomodated at the top so this is a subtle way of ensuring that the base is maintained …Note the schools in poor disadvantaged areas are the ones that are being blasted Ha!
Please
August 12th, 2010
9:52 am
“Note the schools in poor disadvantaged areas are the ones that are being blasted Ha!”
Really Paulo? So the poor schools in Gwinnett, in Cobb, in Fulton, in Clayton are being ‘blasted” in this cheating scandal? Nope, only the schools in APS?
It couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that those schools cheated could it? Couldn’t be that.
Paulo 977
August 12th, 2010
9:58 am
Please…wonder why only APS got caught!!! I take it you approve of this standardized type of ‘THING “that is going on in the school system?
Kyle Wingfield
August 12th, 2010
9:58 am
Larry: Way to buy into the APS company line. The point is that all 58 schools had already been demonstrated to have evidence of wrongdoing when compared to the entire state. The exercise was not to find which of these 58 were the very worst — the bottom 1 percent of the bottom 1 percent — but to find out what went wrong at each of the 58 schools. And the panel didn’t do that.
As for your complaint that I didn’t cite the material as originally coming from the investigation…what do you think this line meant?
“Here is what some of them told the adults who investigated cheating on the state’s Criterion-Referenced Competency Tests in Atlanta Public Schools, as reported by the AJC last Sunday:”
Thank you Rep. Ralph Long
August 12th, 2010
9:59 am
Rep Ralph Long, thank you for your integrity on behalf of the students in your district, and the students of Atlanta as a whole. One can only imagine how much better the citizens of Georgia would be served if the General Assembly were full of people of your character.
Where are the other members of the General Assembly who have constituents in Atlanta? Why can’t they step up to the plate like Ralph Long did? What do they stand for; integrity or business as usual?
Kyle Wingfield
August 12th, 2010
10:00 am
Paulo 977: The original analysis, the one that spurred the need for investigations, included every elementary and middle school in the entire state. And while APS had the most schools that were flagged, some others also came up on the list often — Dougherty County is another example.
Sure Larry
August 12th, 2010
10:02 am
“I see nothing wrong with the way this investigation was conducted and have yet to read any legitimate criticism that it was biased or ignored evidence.”
You see nothing wrong with the fact that 7 members of the blue ribbon commission have business dealings worth millions of dollars with APS?
Please
August 12th, 2010
10:07 am
Sure Paulo, the whole thing was biased to target schools with poor children. I guess that must mean there are no poor people in Cobb, Clayton, Fulton, or Gwinnett. Evil computers, or evil erasers Paulo?
Lawyer
August 12th, 2010
10:40 am
Thanks Kyle. You summed this up extremely well. It appears that the “blue ribbon commission” goal was to save Dr. Hall, stating that no evidence supports the fact that “central office was not involved”. Well, with a majority of schools and educators openly cheating on the CRCT, it is systemic. The buck stops at the top. Dr. Hall happily accepted so call gains in student improvement over the years so she must also accept less than gains as in this case of system-wide cheating. The superintendent’s role is not based on “all things right syndrone” so Dr. Hall you are responsible for the cheating too. I also challenge a less than effective Board for failing to accept responsibility for this problem. Now, the Board can redeem itself by firing Dr. Hall and moving forward in a positive way to correct this situation. Do your job or get off the pot.
Wassup?
August 12th, 2010
10:40 am
Atlanta’s Venetian Hills Elementary School serves grades PK-5 in the Atlanta Public Schools district. It has received a GreatSchools Rating of 5 out of 10. based on its performance on state standardized tests.
Parents have reviewed this school and given it an average rating of 5 out of 5 stars.
I suspect the parents and the kids probably thought the teachers were “giving the kids a leg up.”
Pi$$ on those kids! It’s the Democratic thing to do.
CrazyInGA
August 12th, 2010
10:52 am
To solve this type of problem in the future, teachers should work in other schools as test administrators during what I call Test Season. They should never work as test administrators in the same school each year; until they have completed the rotation. It would be great if they didn’t find out which school until 48 hours before testing begins.
jlo
August 12th, 2010
11:08 am
Thanks for the article. I have enjoyed your commentary since you joined the staff.
True, since Hall has been appointed by the Atlanta Education Fund there has been improvements in the schools. But at what cost. First she bullied principals and teachers into ‘doing their jobs’. What she did not see is that the problem begin with what APS had been given to deal with from the state and other factions that held back needed supplies and qualified teachers for the system to function and produce an educated group of African american students. If the education system in Georgia was truly audited and playing field leveld for all students then the education achieved at the top nationally ranked schools in Cobb would be the same in APS as well as Glynn County (Brunswick). It is not – that is why so many rural areas are suffering. If they had a Hall and funding they could improve too.
The ATL ED Fund and Hall used scare tactics, threats, firings and money along with turning a blind eye to how ever it could be achieved in order to improve the schools. But, still the problems are not solved if a student graduates but can not read or write. The cheating was a way for the principals to then in turn bully their staff into improvements. Teachers did not want to lose their jobs, so they cheated and principals turned a blind eye and so did administrators. If you look at the administrators in APS, they are not qualified for their jobs but are friends of Hall and where ‘given’ their positions. Especially McCloud and Augustine. And, parents/citizens of Atlanta look at the disfunctioning, no action elected members of BOE. Consider the seriousness of the scandal and what they are not doing when you vote next time. Remove Chandra Butler because she has played a big part of not being the solution but ensuring that this was covered up.
Cheating did not just start in APS or any other system. But because there is so much policitics and neopotism in our, GA, system is in need of much improvement. I hope that Purdue or someone at the State BOE takes a good hard look at APS problems and those acrosse the state.
As much as I dislike Hall and her regime’s tactics, there are some good programs in place at APS. So, when anybody decides to actually do something about the cheating scandal. Don’t do it just because but do it to make a sincere change in the way education improvements are achieved in Atlanta and in GA. Stop playing with our kids lives and their future. Because they are the future and if you keep treating them like dirt – turst me they will be the ones to throw dirt on you.
Paulo 977
August 12th, 2010
11:20 am
The real issue is the stupidity of Testing !!
Testing frenzy crosses insanity line | ajc.com
Please
August 12th, 2010
11:24 am
Come on Paulo tell us. Tell us why you see nothing wrong with 7 people with business dealings worth millions of dollars with APS serving on the blue ribbon panel that is supposed to be “investigating” APS?
Peter
August 12th, 2010
11:30 am
My gosh Kyle…..Sonny Perdue held accountable ?
WOW that would be BIG NEWS…. can you tell us anything he has been accountable for the last 8 years ?
Can you tell us how Atlanta, and Georgia has benefited from his 2 terms ?
Talk about water, education, housing, and employment for starters, then tell us about transportation, both the highways and mass transit.
Kyle has Sonny done anything buy help himself and and a few like the Southern Company ?
APS has demonstrated success
August 12th, 2010
11:36 am
People want to talk about a few educators who may have cheated, but why don’t they talk about this year’s scores. When protocols were put in place to prevent cheating, APS 3rd and 8th graders finished in the top 170 of all school systems in Georgia, proof that what people have been saying about research based best practices that Dr. Hall has implemented is true.
Facts don't lie
August 12th, 2010
11:40 am
It is true, APS was the 169th rated school system in Georgia on the CRCT this year. There are probably about 1000 school systems in Georgia easily, so to finish in the top 200, especially considering how disruptive all the monitors were to the students, show how truly effective APS and Dr. Hall have been.
Incensed
August 12th, 2010
11:42 am
Anybody notice that the CEO of Hewlett-Packard just got fired for something much less serious than this cheating scandal. Beverly Hall is overpaid and over praised. Cut the head of the snake off to stop the corruption throughout the APS. Whether she knew or not, it happened on her watch. She needs to go.
Incensed
August 12th, 2010
11:56 am
Dear “Facts don’t lie”
You’re right they don’t lie. There are approximately 184 school systems in Georgia. Being 169 “ain’t so hot!”
Charles
August 12th, 2010
11:59 am
The book “Freakonomics” has an entire chapter on the same thing happening in another city. In that case, investigators uses statistical methods to find anomalies in test results. It is very interesting. There, too, few teachers were fired. It is too political and corrupt. The incentives are too great for teachers to cheat, and we have seen that they won’t get into trouble. The real lesson: never believe these schools when they brag about their test scores. The other real lesson – don’t send your kids to a government school.
Facts don't lie
August 12th, 2010
12:02 pm
Incensed it doesn’t even make any sense that there are only 184 school systems in a state as big as Georgia. You’re just a typical Beverly Hall basher who doesn’t want to recognize her achievements.
Kyle Wingfield
August 12th, 2010
12:07 pm
Facts don’t lie: Incensed is right about the number of school districts. There are 159 counties in Georgia, each of which has its own system, along with a couple of dozen other systems (mostly city systems, like APS).
booger
August 12th, 2010
12:08 pm
Unfortunaletly this scandal has taught a big “life lesson”. If you can’t compete……cheat. There is such an instilled “victim’s” culture that it’s pretty well accepted that if you can get away with it, do it.
Incensed
August 12th, 2010
12:08 pm
Dear “Facts don’t lie”
You apparently are a product of APS. There are 159 counties in Georgia. Most have a school system. There are also a number of independent city school systems (about 25). The correct CRCT answer for 159 + 25 is 184. Unless it has previously been erased, in which case God only knows.
Facts don't lie
August 12th, 2010
12:27 pm
Well that may be true about the number of school systems, but how did anyone expect APS students to do well this year with monitors going around and intimidating them? The monitors probably had an agenda and wanted the children to fail because that’s how bad they wanted to bring down APS.
Facts don't lie
August 12th, 2010
12:28 pm
Isn’t it true the state flooded the APS schools with monitors, monitors who probably had an agenda?
Ayn Rant
August 12th, 2010
12:40 pm
Good article, Kyle! Cheating and irresponsibility are bad enough, but underlying all this bad conduct are schools that are failing to teach, and students who are failing to learn.
Gov. Perdue and the Legislature have ignored the basic education problems of the state for the last seven years. The Governor cannot do much of use in the next 6 months.
Firing teachers and administrators is a political ploy, not a solution to the education problems in Atlanta or Georgia; it just diverts the public attention from the on-going management failures and budget cuts.
Jefferson
August 12th, 2010
12:48 pm
Adult don’t accept dishonesty. Being said, I assume you won’t accecpt Deal for his dishonesty in dealing with influencing no bid state contracts or is that just different? How would you explain that to your kids ?
J. J.
August 12th, 2010
12:58 pm
It all results from Dr. Hall putting pressure on the leadership of schools and the leaderships putting pressure on the teachers. the “innovative” teaching programs adopted by the district do not work…Go back to what worked, teaching students daily in classrooms wherein the teacher determines the needs for improvement and plans to address those needs.
I retired from the district and know what happens daily in the schools. No one puts presssure on the students…,bad behavior and disruptions are not disciplined and students get away with everything. In fact, a principal once said, “teachers have no rights; only students have rights in this school.” There is a Constitution of the United States of America…many district leaders have forgotten.
Incensed
August 12th, 2010
1:05 pm
Since we have accepted the fact that 169 out of 184 is pretty bad – let’s look for another boogie man(aka excuse). Oh it’s the monitors who were responsible. The only problem with that is that the previous monitors gave out answers and the new monitors didn’t. Why can’t you accept the fact that APS is selling you a bill of goods and you’re buying it hook, line, and sinker. Instead of finding excuses why don’t you demand a board of education and a superintendent who could fix these problems.
booger
August 12th, 2010
1:29 pm
Jefferson,
What has Nathan Deal got to do with this. What twisted logic would say that if Deal did something wrong, that makes it ok for a teacher or a school system to cheat. I suppose it’s the same logic which says if Bush spent one trillion dollars, it’s ok for Obama to spend three.
JohnnyReb
August 12th, 2010
1:30 pm
jm – so you think my statement is ridiculous. That must mean you are intimately familiar with the neighborhoods of the 12 or 13 schools and better than 90% of the families honestly qualify for the free/reduced rate meal program?
If there is that much poverty in the APS system, which I hope there is not, I suggest the parents start voting Republican.
If students are on the reduced/rate meal program illegally, the testing scandel could be just the beginning.
StJ
August 12th, 2010
1:38 pm
“Firing teachers and administrators is a political ploy, not a solution to the education problems…”
Honesty and accountability must be restored; firing those responsible may at least “teach” some of the students that cheating will be punished severely, even if you are the teacher. It also will make other administrators think twice before pulling this little stunt.
There are plenty of honest, unemployed teachers lately who would probably like to have a job.
Intown
August 12th, 2010
1:48 pm
Facing down the possibility of sending my kids to APS schools in a few years, I think Kyle is right. It’s time to clean house in APS, begining in their new adminstration building downtown and in the cheating schools. I’m pretty sure this focus on testing and tying money to test results is part of the problem (rewarding cheaters) but, failed character is also to blame. This is not a partisan or ideological issue. This is about educating our kids.
Jefferson
August 12th, 2010
1:55 pm
Booger – The last sentence in the 2nd paragraph stated adult would not accept dishonesty. I believe Deal was dishonest. I wonder if Kyle does.
Incensed
August 12th, 2010
2:06 pm
Dear Ayn Rant,
“management failure and budget cuts.” No question about the management failures but the “budget cuts” is a horse of a different color. APS is awash in money! Somewhere north of a half a billion dollar budget. An almost 10% outlay for administrative costs (superintendent, asst. supers, etc. etc. etc.). $66,000,000 is a lot of money to spend on administration for 48000 students. Cobb Co. spends less than 4 % of its budget on admin, and Cobb seniors over the age of 62 don’t pay school taxes. The old folks in Atlanta are paying for all the foolish nepotism and vote buying in our corrupt Atlanta system. APS should get less money and spend it wisely – not more. Money is obviously not the answer to the quality in education problem.
HDB
August 12th, 2010
2:06 pm
Part of the problem is that education has boiled down to teaching for a test rather than to teach for knowledge and growth! As a product of APS, teachers were treasured and respected…and they taught so that a student would learn and prepare for future endeavors…like college. Now, since public education has been degraded to an expensive babysitting service….persistently ralied against by those who consistently cut funding to public education…..what has to change is the focus of public education!
1) Those who want public education to become better must insure that the proper funding mechanisms stay in place!
2) The focus of public education must return to learning…not just passing the test
3) Power must be given to the principals and teachers to remove disruptions of the learning environment
4) Alternative education facilities must be created for those students that hace been removed from the primary educational facility
5) Vocational and technical education must be created as an option…not just focusing on pre-collegiate education
6) Parental involvement is required…….
You can not compare private and public educational systems because the mandate and focus of the competing systems are not compatible!!
Aquagirl
August 12th, 2010
2:16 pm
Jefferson, “well—well—never mind Beverly Hall, lookit what Nathan Deal is doin!!!” is best reserved for 2nd graders.
Fer chrissakes, take your Adderall and float your pet topic someplace else. The internet is a big place.
Incensed
August 12th, 2010
2:30 pm
Dear HDB
1 There’s plenty of wasted money in education
2 Testing lets us know if there is any learning going on.
3 I agree – remove the disrupters.
4 Why? The privilege of an education carries a responsibility to not be disruptive.
Kick them out and keep them out.
5 Votech would make a lot of sense for lots of these kids who can’t make it in college – but they still need to learn to read, write and compute.
6 Why don’t we start teaching kids parenting skills? It would help all the teenage
moms, and it might alert kids to the fact that their parents are doing a lousy job.
And finally, yes you can compare private and public systems. The ultimate objective is the same: to prepare a person to function in the world without expecting the government to be the daddy. Maybe the mandate of public education is to soak the taxpayer for as much as it can, while the mandate of private education is to do more with less. The focus should be the same – quality education
Jefferson
August 12th, 2010
2:34 pm
So why write the 1st 2 paragraphs ? They have nothing to do with the schools, just a lesson about honesty.
Aqua, I thought the opening paragraphs outline the topic, my appologies.
Grand Forks
August 12th, 2010
2:34 pm
“Part of the problem is that education has boiled down to teaching for a test rather than to teach for knowledge and growth!”
BINGO!
Grand Forks
August 12th, 2010
2:39 pm
HDB
The reason private schools are more successful is because parents have a lot of money tied into little jimmy and sally’s education. If you’re dropping $15 grand/year you would make sure that they are studying.
Can’t say that for public schools. But yes, it’s still up to the parents to raise the kids.
Incensed
August 12th, 2010
2:49 pm
The parents paying the $15 grand/year for Jimmy or Sally are probably dropping another $15 or $20 grand/year in school taxes to pay for some kid in APS whose parents think that education is not only a right – but – it’s also FREE
Bob
August 12th, 2010
2:57 pm
Christian, Are Rangel, Kanjorski and Waters on that list ?
Paulo 977
August 12th, 2010
2:59 pm
HDB…you HAVE to be a real educator!! Great post!
Aquagirl
August 12th, 2010
3:09 pm
@ Jefferson, the opening is not an outline of the topic, it’s a personal example leading into the topic—which is keeping mum in the APS system. It makes the column less boring than Kyle launching right into the APS system’s failings.
I’m not a fan of Crooked Deal either, but spamming everywhere about him just makes people roll their eyes when you have a legitimate complaint. If you don’t want him elected—you’re not doing a very good job. People like Bob will see your Nathan Deal and raise you a Rangel, Kanjorski and Waters. Zzzzzzzzz……
HDB
August 12th, 2010
3:12 pm
Incensed August 12th, 2010
2:30 pm
To return the favor:
1) Not all public systems are wasteful in their spending; there are some inefficiencies in every system….and those need to be addressed and eliminated; this, I think, we do agree!!
2) I didn’t say ELIMINATE testing…but when I was an APS student, the test was on the SUBJECT material….not a standardized test!! To see how one would perform on the standardized test…look at SAT/ACT scores!! That would give a better indication as to if the education was good enough!! Some kids just can’t take tests well (some do have phobias!). I know that my standardized test taking could have been better…but I made the efforts to improve in that aspect……
3) No disagreememt there!!
4) Alternative education has to be an option…..some children are not able to be educated in a “traditional” setting; some can not grasp certain concepts in a “traditional” educational paradigm. It doesn’t mean, however, that a child can not be educated!! For those whom disruption is the primary focus…granted…..get them away from those who desire to learn!!
5 & 6) No argument there…but refer to my previous (4) to address your issues…..
You really can’t compare the paradigms of public and private education; the mandate to public education is to educate the MASSES where private education’s mandate is to educate the discriminate FEW!! As grand Forks stated….when parents are springing for the educational costs, they are a bit more discerning!! There are, however, those parents whose children were educated in the public systems (I,for one…and my children for others) who were VERY HANDS ON with their educational pursuits because it is very edident that education is the key to being successful…and to be better assimilated into American society!! When I was a student, I was taught for growth….and to pursue a college educaton…not just to pass a “state-desired” test!! When I was in college, the mandate from the State was to be able to pass the Regents’ Tests before the end of my sophomore year! I was able to accomplish that in the FIRST QUARTER of my FRESHMAN year….without taking the prerequisites!!! Public school systems aren’t totally bad…but the paradigms have to change!!
Jefferson
August 12th, 2010
3:14 pm
Aqua, there again I was asking Kyle the question. Sorry you had to read it.
HDB
August 12th, 2010
3:14 pm
Paulo 977 August 12th, 2010
2:59 pm
Thanks….but I’m the CHILD of an educator; my mother taught for 44 years in APS…..teachers will ALWAYS get the utmost respect from me because I’ve seen FIRSTHAND what they go through….and the THANKS they DON’T get!!
Not So Casual Observer
August 12th, 2010
4:21 pm
The topic is corruption in the APS, but this is no more than an example of the corruption that bleeds from Washington to Atlanta to Homerville and throughout the country.
So Beverly Hall is fired, then what? Is there just another corrupt administrator waiting to fill her position? You betcha!
Why not look to a successful system, free of corruption, free of “bids for buddies” and one known to educate the children. There has to be one somewhere! Unfortunately, even if Hall is removed APS will hire someone from Houston or Detroit or Washington, DC or some other equally corrupt system to step in and clean up the mess – and this new hire will simply perpetuate the current system.
HDB wrote of his mother and her 44 years of service. I would wager there was no one in the school system being paid over $300,000 when she was a dedicated teacher. I seem to recall several reports on local systems and each decried the ratio of administrators to teachers.
Liberals are quick to claim CEOs make far too much money relative to the workers why are the Libs silent on the pay of Beverly Hall relative to a first year teacher?
Grand Forks
August 12th, 2010
4:41 pm
Not So Casual Observer
It’s because left wingers are brain dead idiots.
For instance: Left wing hags never say anything when Muslim women are beaten, raped and tortured by their own men yet they will scream bloody murder when you or I talk about ending abortion rights.
Guess left wingers do love death after all.
Grand Forks
August 12th, 2010
4:43 pm
“There are, however, those parents whose children were educated in the public systems (I,for one…and my children for others) who were VERY HANDS ON with their educational pursuits ”
Yep, there are hundreds of thousands of public school kids who are very smart and end up doing very well for themselves. My rants against public schools have to do more with out of control classroom sizes, unruly kids and teachers not being able to teach.
Not So Casual Observer
August 12th, 2010
4:45 pm
HDB @ 3:12
1) Exactly
2) Testing on the subject – good. Standardized testing – not necessarily bad, as in the SAT/ACT. I knew A Students in college who were unable to pass the Bar or CPA exam simply as a result of their emotional state and the broad scope of the tests.
3) Little discipline for the administrators and no discipline for the students – BAD! Disengage the disruptors!
4) Alternative schools eventually save the student and save $$$$$.
My children have been both publicly and privately educated (as I was) and I must report the private schools foster a learning environment and educate. The parents are involved and active in the private and many are in the public, but in private schools 100% are active. The money is not the issue, since most can afford the cost, the issue is the success of the child. Scholarships and tuition assistance are available and the students who qualify have parents equally as dedicated as those paying full tuition.
My youngest child will be a junior, so I am 2 years from a decrease in education costs if she attends a college or university in Georgia, but I still pay over $4,000/year in school taxes. In my 40 years of school taxes I have paid less than $100K in school tax, or an amount approximately equal to the cost of a private high school education. Actually not such a bad deal for my family since all 3 of ours attended public school through 6th grade.
We must give public schools the means to educate and with that comes the responsibilty of the taxpaying public to assure the resources are not bled off through graft and corruption. Atlanta and DeKalb schools are wastful and corrupt and simply replacing the leader will not solve the problem.
Not So Casual Observer
August 12th, 2010
4:49 pm
Grand Forks,
The silence of NOW and other women’s groups was deafening during the Clinton/Lewinsky debacle, yet had a corporate CEO been charged with the same behavior there would have been unending demonstrations at the corporate HQ.
The time will come when the Beverly Hall crowd will scream SEXISM or racism to defend her, despite her obvious culpability.
Not So Casual Observer
August 12th, 2010
4:52 pm
Grand Forks,
I drop by occasionally to read the discussion and post but in all of this I have been unable to find an answer (Other than NO) for one question.
Do Liberals have any redeeming qualities
Incensed
August 12th, 2010
4:59 pm
What is it with some of you? We’re not talking about replacing the leader to solve a problem. We’re talking about firing somebody because they’re corrupt!
chillywilly
August 12th, 2010
5:26 pm
Will the following individuals please report to the Second Floor Security Desk:
Beverly Hall, Kathy Augustine, Sharon Pitts, Millicent Few, Chuck Burbridge, Elwood Duckworth, Sherri Davis, Penn Payne, Nader Sohrab, Brad Johnson, Crissi Calhoun, Sandra Mormon, & Holly Keller.
Your continued employment at APS is DENIED. Please leave the building immediately!!
Grand Forks
August 12th, 2010
5:31 pm
“Do Liberals have any redeeming qualities”
No
Old Physics Teacher
August 12th, 2010
5:31 pm
Let’s recap here. Schools aren’t teaching kids right. We need to test the kids to see just what they learned. So “society” has us test for esoteric isolated facts that the public couldn’t answer either and claim schools are failing. “Society” then claims that tenure is the cause of the problems. So,,, tenure is abolished for administrators, and long-term contracts become the norm at an even higher cost which run taxes up even higher. Now administrators are caught RED-HANDED cheating — a clear violation of the code of ethics and a violation of their contracts and the punishment is not termination— it’s to be transferred to another school???l Why aren’t they being fired, you ask? It’s because no one competent wants the jobQ The only people who want the jobs are bad teachers and football coaches who can’t count past 11. How’s your reforms working of for you now, “society?” You guys are clueless to the problems or the solutions. “Society” has screwed education up so bad, I’m not sure there’s a solution now.
Why don’t you guys go away and leave education alone and see if educators can fix your problems? You guys can go and try to see if you can screw up the economy any worse than it is now.
Grand Forks
August 12th, 2010
5:32 pm
“The silence of NOW and other women’s groups was deafening during the Clinton/Lewinsky debacle”
Yeah, and one of the feminazis actually said that women should line up to give old Billy Bob a bj as well. They are also silent when conservative women like Palin get ridiculed by ugly left wing men. I don’t know what it is with left wingers but they are so freaking ugly.
Peter
August 12th, 2010
5:34 pm
Hey Kyle…….We ae now in a Drought again… So what has Sonny done about that ?
I can answer that………..ZERO……. as he has done for 8 years !
Sheila Brock
August 12th, 2010
6:30 pm
In one of the associated articles, mismanagement of funds was sited including the purchasing of a book written about the life of one of the administrators. I think the book was about their own life and educational experiences. Do you know what book this was and who the administrator was? Apparently it is suggested that some “homecooking” insured hundreds of copies of the book were approved at district level. Curious for a couple of different reasons. Thanks!
Grand Forks
August 12th, 2010
7:04 pm
WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE FROM BOOKMAN AND TUCKER ON THIS!!!!!!!!!!!
Local Democrats wish death upon Sarah Palin
There’s only one way the tragic airplane crash in Alaska that ended the life of former-U.S. Senator Ted Stevens could have been better, according to New Hampshire Democratic activist and State Rep. candidate Keith Halloran: If Sarah Palin had been on it.
http://www.nowhampshire.com/2010/08/11/local-democrats-wish-death-upon-sarah-palin/
Grand Forks
August 12th, 2010
7:04 pm
The stunning decline of Barack Obama: 10 key reasons why the Obama presidency is in meltdown
The last few weeks have been a nightmare for President Obama, in a summer of discontent in the United States which has deeply unsettled the ruling liberal elites, so much so that even the Left has begun to turn against the White House. While the anti-establishment Tea Party movement has gained significant ground and is now a rising and powerful political force to be reckoned with, many of the president’s own supporters as well as independents are rapidly losing faith in Barack Obama, with open warfare breaking out between the White House and the left-wing of the Democratic Party. While conservatism in America grows stronger by the day, the forces of liberalism are growing increasingly weaker and divided.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100050412/the-stunning-decline-of-barack-obama-10-key-reasons-why-the-obama-presidency-is-in-meltdown/
Grand Forks
August 12th, 2010
7:07 pm
“We ae now in a Drought again… So what has Sonny done about that ?”
Peter is what I call, retarded.
Incensed
August 12th, 2010
7:15 pm
Sheila Brock:
Thebook is entitled “From Remedial to Remarkable” by DeKalb area assistant superintendent Ralph Simpson. His friends in the system ordered over $15,000 for copies of the book which is very short, includes 13 pages of inspirational quotes and is written in large type like books for children or the visually impaired.
Note to Kyle: Lots of red meat here for another column
J.B. STONER
August 12th, 2010
8:01 pm
I tried to tell you -no-paying-attention fools about cheating in Atlanta Ga. years ago to no avail..
Wake up and smell the aroma of thieves…
@@
August 12th, 2010
8:10 pm
Oh my! Parents have reviewed Venetian Hills Elementary and given it an average rating of 5 out of 5 stars?
What…..are the parents like…..clueless or willfully complicit? I was gonna say willfully ignorant, but we know all know, whereto that would lead the conversation. Don’t wanna go THERE. Nosiree!
@@
August 12th, 2010
10:04 pm
but we know all know??????
I know too much.
jm
August 13th, 2010
9:15 am
I know this is off-topic. But I don’t think those associated with Republicans have a lot of ground to stand on, unfortunately, to criticize Hall. The Republican choice for governor is a crook. Not a Madoff size crook, but a crook nonetheless. I wouldn’t want a petty thief as governor, and I don’t want Deal as governor.
I think Hall hasn’t grasped the enormity of the scandal in the minds of the public, and there are justified reasons for the outrage. But Hall has also legitimately made improvements. She’ll be gone soon enough. The focus should be on finding a very, very good replacement when she retires.
Someone answer me: why have 50% of republicans elected a crook?
Horrible Horrace
August 13th, 2010
11:13 am
Sounds as if Paulo has been drinking from the toilet, AGAIN.
Bad Paulo, Bad Dog.
HDB`
August 13th, 2010
11:17 am
Grand Forks/Not So Casual Observer
“It’s because left wingers are brain dead idiots. ”
Not totallty true; there are those of us on he progressive idiom that are far from “brain dead”; we abhor ANYONE, male or female, from being brutally treated..no matter what the guise!! Ther are those of us who desire the best for all people….and wish to eliminate xeonphobia and racism!! The problem that I see is that we tend to revert to the harshest of times during economic downturns…..and tend to blame those that are not “like us”…rather than to look at how we can avoid such animus and hardships from occurring!!
You rail against a tax increase….but fail to note that prior to 2002, all wars were funded by tax increases; you rail against social funding, but fail to note the vast differentiation between the “haves” and the “have-nots”. You create laws to balkanize the nation rather than unify it!!
We will disagree as to how we can change the nation to make it better…but we DO agree that we want the nation to be better for everyone!!!
Not So Casual Observer
August 13th, 2010
1:13 pm
HDB @ 11:17,
I agree with one very large exception, I do not believe the government should confiscate that for which I have worked to feather the nest of another and at the point of a gun if the government deems such necessary.
Since the dawn of man there have been “haves” and “have-nots” and there has been war. In an Utopia none of these would occur but his world will never be Utopia and the best we can hope is for a semblance of peace for all people. The United States does not possess the resources to “cure” the world of these problems, but the federal government is obliged to protect the citizens from violence whether that violence originates in (Terrorists) or out (war mongers) of our own country. This is mandated by the Constitution.
The problem I have is the Congress and White House (by most all since FDR) ignoring the constraints of the Constitution and using our money to buy favor from us. To assert that our federal government has our best interests at heart is to be a Pollyanna. The lives of our politicians revolve around power and they do anything to remain in power – both D’s and R’s.
The primary reason I rail against tax increases is the wasteful spending, such as the $800+ Billion stimulus that results in nothing more than a payoff to the friends and supporters of the corrupt 535 in Congress. Eliminate the waste, such as the Departments of Energy and Education, and the “pork” and force Congress to act within the Constitution – then there will be no deficits and debt to drag our nation into the abyss.
There is no difference in the R’s and D’s once they are in Washington and there is much evidence to support this statement. Sure each side will take a stance on some issue, whether they believe their position or not, just to create a divide, but the reality is they act only to be re-elected.
To charge that I, or Conservatives, create laws to balkanize the nation is your “pigeon hole” view of the process. If you are attempting to argue the Liberals (Democrats) do not act to polarize then you are not listening to their rhetoric. The race whores are rampant, the party of the people has done nothing to actually benefit the poor in the last 50-60 years, a fact even the noted philosopher Charles Barkley recognizes.
The simple fact is Conservatives give more to charity than the Liberals, yet because the mainstream media ignores this and other damaging information on Liberals, the great unwashed believe the Liberals are their savior when the opposite is true.
Clay Boggess
August 19th, 2010
9:44 am
It is sad to see educators break under the pressure. This sort of temptation will definitely separate the sheep from the goats.
Clay Boggess
http://www.BigEventFundraising.com