Energy policy on the ObamaCare model
President Obama has decided that the Gulf oil spill means we need to change the way we power our entire country, not just the way we regualte offshore drilling. Politico reports today that the next three weeks will be crucial to that effort, with the ball in the court of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid:
The options will break down into three core elements, and the question will be how the leaders choose to combine them.
The first and easiest piece is a Gulf-spill response measure to reform offshore drilling and raise disaster liabilities on oil companies. “That one’s must-pass,” said Scott Segal, an energy lobbyist at Bracewell & Giuliani, echoing the sentiments of congressional staff members on both sides of the aisle.
The second element is a clean-energy bill that would require a boost in renewable electricity produced by sources such as wind and solar. A version of this bill, sponsored by Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee Chairman Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.), was passed by the panel last year with bipartisan support and is widely viewed as the most palatable clean-energy compromise now in the Senate.
The third, biggest and most contentious piece is a price on greenhouse gas emissions — a policy at the heart of the climate change debate. In a nod to how heavy a lift this would be, it’s likely that the carbon-cap piece will be limited to pollution from power plants and will not apply across the economy.
The article suggests that Bingaman and other Democrats believe they don’t have the votes for cap and trade, and that a package with the first two pieces is more likely. This scenario has environmentalists riled up, not just because of the dim prospects for cap and trade, but because the target for a renewable-energy mandate may end up at 15 percent of all the nation’s power — rather than the 20 percent requirement in a bill the House passed last year, or the 25 percent that Obama advocated while campaigning.
Is it just me, or is this the health debate, part deux?
Cap and trade, like the public option, is a long-held goal on the left (well, in cap and trade’s case, long is relative to the age of the global warming debate) that looks to be shot down because too many legislators know that they’d lose their jobs if they passed it.
So, we move on to the left’s next-best thing in the debate, mandating renewable energy; think mandating certain coverage aspects in health care. With the most drastic option out of the way, this is where the left and right will fight it out.
The left will push for higher percentages than are feasible, in terms of economics and probably logistics as well (the best areas for solar and wind generation are not necessarily where the demand for power is greatest). Note in the Politico article that the environmentalists object to energy efficiency being part of the renewable requirement. Nothing will ever be enough for them, because they object far more to our way of life than our means of power generation.
The right will argue that we can’t afford what Democrats are proposing, that the Western European nations that have tried such a renewables push before us have been slowly backing away from those policies, and that forcing electricity rates to jump (even if they wouldn’t quite “skyrocket” as Obama admitted would happen with cap and trade) is an especially terrible idea amid a sluggish recovery.
The left will proceed to brand Republicans and conservatives as spiteful planet haters.
The right will suggest that Congress respond to the oil spill by simply passing a bill that deals with drilling regulations, and continue to work on the broader energy question, since electricity generation itself has nothing to do with the energy needs that petroleum fills. The left will sneer at that, because it knows that the broader policy question will go nowhere on its own merits. (Come to think of it, this mirrors the immigration debate as well.)
The difference, if it comes, may be whether Obama, Reid and Speaker Nancy Pelosi still have the juice to make vulnerable Democrats take the poison. Or whether they can contort enough parliamentary procedures to get what they want without a proper vote.
And at the end of the day, if they can pull it through, Democrats will have enraged conservatives and peeved moderates for a legislative “achievement” that doesn’t even satisfy their most liberal supporters.
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117 comments Add your comment
Dave
July 12th, 2010
4:33 pm
How many of you libs are willing to live like this:
In the heat wave, the case against air conditioning
“This isn’t smart. In a country that’s among the world’s highest greenhouse-gas emitters, air conditioning is one of the worst power-guzzlers. The energy required to air-condition American homes and retail spaces has doubled since the early 1990s. Turning buildings into refrigerators burns fossil fuels, which emits greenhouse gases, which raises global temperatures, which creates a need for — you guessed it — more air-conditioning.
A.C.’s obvious public-health benefits during severe heat waves do not justify its lavish use in everyday life for months on end. Less than half a century ago, America thrived with only the spottiest use of air conditioning. It could again. While central air will always be needed in facilities such as hospitals, archives and cooling centers for those who are vulnerable to heat, what would an otherwise A.C.-free Washington look like?”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/09/AR2010070902341_pf.html
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:34 pm
HDB
Why do left wingers like Al Gore preach to the masses but instead of abiding by their own rules, break them instead?
We could be energy independent if we drilled for our own oil and used nuke energy.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:36 pm
“The auto companies in the FIRST oil crisis, continued to make bigger cars, allowing the Japanese to formulate more fuel efficient cars”
During the 90’s GM made a bunch of electric vehicles which no one bought. The Japanese didn’t start making fuel efficient cars until the mid 2000’s. Now, fuel efficient car sales are way down.
RK
July 12th, 2010
4:36 pm
Dave, I agree with your position on air conditioning. Of course, my outdoor humidity is typically 20% when the air temperature is over 90 deg so I don’t have the same conditions as in the Midwest, East, and South.
Again, if attics are not adequately insulated, the living space will be hotter during the summer and cooler in the winter.
Brad
July 12th, 2010
4:37 pm
@ RK
There should be agreement on the demand side. However, energy prices are not high enough to encourage a high degree of efficiency. That’s what happens when instant gratification pushes costs to the future.
HDB
July 12th, 2010
4:38 pm
Dave July 12th, 2010
4:33 pm
Electricity created by hydroelectric plants create little greenhouse gases; nuclear, wind, and solar emit NONE!! In those areas that use all of the above, the energy to run A/C units is as clean as it gets!! The problem is with coal and gas-fired plants. If there were a more efficient way of eliminating CO ,CO2, SO2 from coal, there wouldn’t be as much of an issue as it is now…….
RK
July 12th, 2010
4:40 pm
Grand Forks, those GM electric vehicles were not bought because they were not for sale. The leasers typically loved the cars and would love to buy them but GM took them back at the end of leases and crushed them. The entire business plan for the EVs was to meet California emissions regulations which were eventually loosened to the point where GM didn’t need those cars on the road.
David S
July 12th, 2010
4:41 pm
HDB, business doesn’t do anything on its own. It is just not that powerful. It must use the power of government to achieve its ends. It uses the power of regulation and licensing to keep out alternatives. It uses it subsidies and tarrifs to achieve a financial advantange over alternatives.
In a truly free energy market, every business would have to pay its own way and earn its own keep. Without any government interference we would have a vast and competitive energy sector that delivered as much energy as the country needed at the lowest price available and nobody would be able to skirt responsibility for liability or environmental damage or anything else.
Brad
July 12th, 2010
4:42 pm
@Grand Forks
There’s plenty of hypocrisy coming from the right as well. It’s not relevant to positions on either side of the issue.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:43 pm
“There’s plenty of hypocrisy coming from the right as well.”
Like what?
RK
July 12th, 2010
4:43 pm
@ Brad
Watch electric coal costs escalate soon when their coal contracts expire and they renegotiate extensions and new contracts. China is reaching into the global coal supply to meet their skyrocketing needs and they can afford to pay more than we want to which will increase our domestic coal costs.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:44 pm
RK
I could have sworn that around 1997 there were electric cars sitting on the lot of local GM dealer in Atlanta.
HDB
July 12th, 2010
4:47 pm
Grand Forks July 12th, 2010
4:34 pm
Can’t speak for Al Gore…but we could’ve been energy independent in 1976 if we’d done a few things better….
“During the 90’s GM made a bunch of electric vehicles which no one bought. The Japanese didn’t start making fuel efficient cars until the mid 2000’s. Now, fuel efficient car sales are way down.”
Not quite; when the FIRST oil embargo hit….the Japanese, paarticularly Toyota, Datsun (now Nissan), and Mazda, started bringing over smaller, fuel-efficient cars to counteract GM/Ford/Chrysler’s continued building of small cars. American workmanship was always thought as better…and Japanese was thought to be cheap! When the gasoline proces went over $1/gal (remember those days!), the Japanese cars were selling the point of getting over 30mpg! That’s when the viewpoint changed. GM put our cars like the Vega…and Ford created the Pinto to counteract that…but the fuel efficient technologies for most American car companies were in Europe where fuel efficiencies were mandated (Opel/GM – Germany, Vauxhall/GM-England, Ford-Europe, Mitsubishi/Chrysler – Japan….). When gas prices spiked to $4/gal, sales of Hondas, Mazdas, Toyotas went up…and GM/Ford/Chrysler couldn’t get an SUV off the lot!!
Look at the 2011 models now; the preponderance of them are LAUDING their fuel efficiencies…….
Brad
July 12th, 2010
4:47 pm
How about every gay-bashing, fundamentalist preacher caught with a boy-toy?
RK
July 12th, 2010
4:49 pm
@ Grand Forks
Perhaps you did see them there then. If you do NetFlix rent a movie titled Who Killed the Electric Car? and learn the story. Okay, maybe there are some fibs in the film; I was persuaded to its truthfulness when they interviewed a woman claiming to be the GM product publicist for the EV1 who laid out the sordid story.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:49 pm
“How about every gay-bashing, fundamentalist preacher caught with a boy-toy?”
Not sure what that has to do with politics or scamming people for millions of dollars.
So, every preacher who is against gay marriage is gay?
News to me.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:50 pm
RK
THAT’S the vehicle I remember seeing. Forgot the name. Thanks for the movie suggestion.
HDB
July 12th, 2010
4:50 pm
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:44 pm
RK
I could have sworn that around 1997 there were electric cars sitting on the lot of local GM dealer in Atlanta
In California, GM had an electric car that people were buying like mad….but when the gas prices came down, GM destroyed the cars! Why, I don’t know….but most cars with innovations START in California! Cali is the test bed…and if it works there…then it goes nationwide….
Brad
July 12th, 2010
4:50 pm
The point is, GF, that the volume and tone of a position has little to do with its validity.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:51 pm
HDB
Most people I know who buy Japanese, me included, don’t buy them for fuel efficiency. We buy them for longevity. Meaning, we don’t want to buy a car that will fall apart in 5 years.
HDB
July 12th, 2010
4:51 pm
RK – THANKS….I was thinking about the EV-1 in California…….you made my point!!
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:52 pm
“California! Cali is the test bed…and if it works there…then it goes nationwide….”
Cali is going bankrupt. Hope that doesn’t go nationwide.
HDB
July 12th, 2010
4:54 pm
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:51 pm
HDB
Most people I know who buy Japanese, me included, don’t buy them for fuel efficiency. We buy them for longevity. Meaning, we don’t want to buy a car that will fall apart in 5 years
Actually, it’s BOTH!! I would’ve, however, bought a German 4-CYL with a 6-spd gearbox with RWD if I could have afforded it!! My Nissan with its 6-spd gets almost 40mpg….and THAT was its major selling point! Most Japanese cars are more fuel efficient…..point of agreement??
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:55 pm
“Most Japanese cars are more fuel efficient…..point of agreement??”
Anything under 6 cylinders gets good gas mileage.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:56 pm
“The point is, GF, that the volume and tone of a position has little to do with its validity.”
You said EVERY fundamentalist pastor is gay and has a “boy toy.”
Can you please name off 5 fundamentalist pastors who’ve turned out that way?
HDB
July 12th, 2010
5:03 pm
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
4:55 pm
“Most Japanese cars are more fuel efficient…..point of agreement??”
Anything under 6 cylinders gets good gas mileage.
Not all together true…..the Mercedes-Benz 300E….that was an in-line 6…..and it can get almost 34 mpg on the highway….and it has the power curve to run at 200 kph (120 mph) with a low fuel burn!! Did it on the Autobahn in Germany and I-65 in Alabama……..
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
5:04 pm
“.the Mercedes-Benz 300E….that was an in-line 6…..and it can get almost 34 mpg on the highway….and it has the power curve to run at 200 kph (120 mph) with a low fuel burn!!”
What’s the price tag, HDB?
Most people can’t afford those cars. Nice try though.
HDB
July 12th, 2010
5:08 pm
Grand Forks July 12th, 2010
5:04 pm
Don’t disagree with you on the price….but I rented one when I was in Germany…..and drove a family members’ here!! That’s how I found out……There are 6-cyls with the power curve of an 8….but the fuel efficiencies of a 4………
If the Germans and Japanese can do it…so ca we Americans……
That was my point……..
HDB
July 12th, 2010
5:10 pm
Manana….amigos!
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
5:13 pm
HDB
I’ve driven 6 and 4 cylinder cars. The cost of upkeep is cheaper on a 4 cylinder than it is on a 6. Gas is cheaper in the long run as well. At least for me it was.
The only way people will buy American again is if car companies make cars that last. GM screwed themselves with owning and operating 4-5 different car companies that competed with each other.
Their cars were/are crap. My wife has an American made car that is the same year as my Japanese car. Her car has had more problems too.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
5:24 pm
The left says that Obama is not a Muslim but his actions show just the opposite.
Obama at odds with Petraeus doctrine on ‘Islam’
The White House’s official policy of banning the word “Islam” in describing America’s terrorist enemies is in direct conflict with the U.S. military’s war-fighting doctrine now guiding commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/11/obama-at-odds-with-petraeus-doctrine-on-islam/
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
5:25 pm
Obama’s racist wife, who’s never been proud of America, is now putting her foot in her mouth…again.
I’m still waiting to see that evidence of some person spitting on black congressman and calling them the N word.
Michelle Obama Rouses NAACP Before Vote Condemning ‘Racist’ Elements of Tea Party
First Lady Michelle Obama brought renewed energy to the NAACP today, delivering the keynote speech at the annual convention one day before the nation’s largest civil rights group is expected to condemn what it calls racist elements in the Tea Party movement.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/naacp-tea-party-civil-rights-group-considers-resolution/story?id=11144640
AmVet
July 12th, 2010
5:27 pm
Hi, Grand Forks/LA/whodat! Your contributions are sorely missed over at Bookmans!
“Nothing will ever be enough for them, because they object far more to our way of life than our means of power generation.”
What the h e l l does that even mean, Kyle? Is it Republispeak for environmentalists are traitors?
If so, such drivel from one of the your far right wing posters, I would expect, but you? Gadzooks.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
5:32 pm
“Your contributions are sorely missed over at Bookmans!”
I bet, that’s why you and other left wingers were crying for Bookman to ban me. I noticed that you and other left wingers devoted several pages to talking about me.
“What the h e l l does that even mean, Kyle? Is it Republispeak for environmentalists are traitors?”
ScamVet, whenever I see pile of dog crap in the yard, I think of you.
“If so, such drivel from one of the your far right wing posters, I would expect, but you? Gadzooks.”
ScamVet doesn’t get out very much these days, Kyle. You gotta understand that she spends most of her days ranting about how evil the right is all while ignoring her own cult of Obama.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
5:38 pm
Bush debt vs. Obama debt.
http://download.premiereradio.net/guest/rushlimb/pdf/DowRollerCoaster.jpg
AmVet
July 12th, 2010
5:44 pm
Nope, Victimboy, I never called for your banishment. I knew you would blow your stupid head off without any help from me. And VOILA! You did it yet again!! What is that, six or seven different times you’ve been blackballed from AJC forums for being such a childish lout?
At any rate, it was just enormously funny watching you once again implode all over yourself and making a Royal Grade A ass/embarrassment out of yourself on a public blog. That, and thinking about all those times you flat out denied being LA and whodat.
Were you born an inveterate liar or did you develop into one as a teenager?
OK, back to the GF/LA/whodat free zone.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
5:55 pm
“I never called for your banishment. ”
Sure you did, Scam. You and several other retarded left wingers who wet their pants when someone other than a brain dead left winger, comes in and posts something that makes left wingers look…..stupid.
“I knew you would blow your stupid head off without any help from me.”
Ah, now I’m stupid. The one thing I learned over on Bookmans blog is that left wingers get away with calling right wingers stupid, @ss, idiot etc…..
It took 5 days of you and other left wingers to cry so that Bookman would get the IT department to dig a little more.
“What is that, six or seven different times you’ve been blackballed from AJC forums for being such a childish lout?”
Nope, I can post here, Tuckers, Wootens, and Barrs. Speaking of childish lout, you were banned from Bookmans blog for a few days. But please, deny that as well, Scam.
“At any rate, it was just enormously funny watching you once again implode all over yourself and making a Royal Grade A ass/embarrassment out of yourself on a public blog.”
Ah, but I never imploded. I never called you names like HEY, you just called me! Again, intelligence isn’t your strong point is it?
“That, and thinking about all those times you flat out denied being LA and whodat.”
Scam, you don’t know me and I don’t know you. There are no rules for blog names. Otherwise you and I would have to reveal our real names.
“Were you born an inveterate liar or did you develop into one as a teenager?”
I blame people like you.
“OK, back to the GF/LA/whodat free zone.”
Have fun, troglodyte!
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
5:59 pm
Kyle,
Read AmVets rhetoric and determine who is doing the provoking. Thanks-Grand Forks LA Communist AJC Who Dat?
x-con
July 12th, 2010
6:16 pm
Nixon was tricky dick.
Clinton was slick willie.
Will Obama be tar balls?
Gerald West
July 12th, 2010
6:58 pm
Too much politics, too little substance, Kyle! First off, ObamaCare, is a derogatory term for the health care bill Congress managed to pass in spite of all odds. It’s not the health care bill Obama wanted, as it doesn’t address health care cost reductions. But, it is a start toward a rational way to pay for health care in America. So, call it CompromiseCare, or Half-A** Care.
It’s easy to ridicule proposals for reducing the energy dependence of the US. What are the alternatives? What would you propose, Kyle? The Republican policy was “Drill, Baby, Drill!” Why don’t we hear that anymore? It was a delusion anyhow: there’s no way the US can drill its way to energy independence, or extract enough additional oil to lower the price of gasoline at the pump.
So, what now?
DEWSTARPATH
July 12th, 2010
7:29 pm
“I is smart! I went 2 skool to study poetry. I’z smarter dan you conservitive people. I can spell werds rite and better dan u. I like stalking other bloggers and pretending to be powerful.”
- That’s “Grand Fork LobLAw” trying to use my handle for his twisted game.
But he purports to be a victim as usual:
“Grand Forks” – July 12th, 2010 – 5:59 pm
“Kyle,
Read AmVets rhetoric and determine who is doing the provoking. Thanks-Grand Forks LA Communist AJC Who Dat?”
Grand Forks IS LA Loblaw. No doubt.
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
7:33 pm
DEWSTARPATH
Hey Dew, how’s it hanging?
Grand Forks
July 12th, 2010
7:34 pm
“That’s “Grand Fork LobLAw” trying to use my handle for his twisted game. ”
Can you prove that, Dew?
WOW
July 12th, 2010
7:41 pm
http://www.wimp.com/oilspills/
WOW
July 12th, 2010
7:44 pm
Grand Dorks!
DEWSTARPATH
July 12th, 2010
7:57 pm
“Hey Dew, how’s it hanging?”
- I’m doing just fine.
DEWSTARPATH
July 12th, 2010
8:01 pm
“That’s “Grand Fork LobLAw” trying to use my handle for his twisted game. ”
“Can you prove that, Dew?”
- The proof is on Wooten’s “Believe Obama or Lying Eyes” forum –
Nobody else but you responds to my posts there lately.
soames
July 12th, 2010
8:22 pm
Recommended reading: Blue Planet in Green Shackles
No More Progressives!
July 12th, 2010
9:09 pm
HDB
July 12th, 2010
4:47 pm
Grand Forks July 12th, 2010
4:34 pm
Can’t speak for Al Gore…but we could’ve been energy independent in 1976 if we’d done a few things better….
Really? Like what???
No More Progressives!
July 12th, 2010
9:13 pm
AmVet
July 12th, 2010
5:27 pm
Hi, Grand Forks/LA/whodat! Your contributions are sorely missed over at Bookmans!
Why would Bookman’s site miss anybody? There are enough communist bedwetting sociopaths on his site to fill Bryant-Denny Stadium 25 times over. Not including the infamous ScamWet.