Obama tries to (cap and) trade on the oil spill
After eight weeks, President Obama has decided he needs to stop letting our crisis in the Gulf of Mexico go unexploited. In an Oval Office address tonight, he’ll explain why, as he recently told Politico’s Roger Simon, the spill should “shape how we think about the environment and energy for many years to come” — just as our perspective on foreign affairs was “profoundly … indelibly” changed by 9/11.
Oh, so within eight years our government will be studiously avoiding the word “oil” and referring to “pipeline-caused disasters”? Maybe a future president will make speeches about how oil barons helped pave the way for the European Renaissance.
Nah, probably not.
Obama reportedly hopes the spill will reinvigorate efforts in Congress to pass a cap-and-tax bill. The Gulf oil spill is a tragedy, but it doesn’t change the basic calculus about cap-and-tax — namely that, among other things, it:
1. reduces, not increases, employment by giving companies an incentive to move production to countries without caps on carbon dioxide emissions;
2. represents an enormous opportunity for politicians to game the system by favoring certain industries over others (and certain firms over their competitors — would Toyota really get the same terms as Government, er, General Motors?) in the allowances granted and the initial prices charged for those allowances; and
3. has worked poorly where it’s been tried (for carbon dioxide) so far, most notably in Europe.
Those things were true last summer, when the cap-and-tax bill passed by the House was considered dead on arrival in the Senate. They’re still true now.
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183 comments Add your comment
Jefferson
June 15th, 2010
7:31 am
Progress, in the right direction.
Janice Taylor-Gaines
June 15th, 2010
7:34 am
What if they cannot stop this leak? That would be a condition of “runaway”, according to this author: http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/business-technology/bp-and-the-gulf-oil-spill-lessons-for-it-and-business/ – Ch. 21 of his book “I.T. WARS” is a real eye-opener too – can Google to it.
Rev. Al Sharptongue
June 15th, 2010
7:52 am
After eight weeks, President Obama has decided he needs to stop letting our crisis in the Gulf of Mexico go unexploited
— would Toyota really get the same terms as Government, er, General Motors?)
Those above statements show why you are nothing but a Right wing hack who only parrots talk you heard from Rush,Beck, et al.
Marc
June 15th, 2010
8:01 am
Question: Why aren’t conservatives concerned about conserving? When you look at the environmental price of coal and oil, conservatives are willing to pile on massive debt. Flooding, drought, dead forests and oceans? Sorry, kids.
For an alternative viewpoint, I suggest Paul Krugman’s discussion of carbon pricing, “Building a Green Economy” in the New York Times recently. It’s at
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/magazine/11Economy-t.html. Among other things, Krugman says, “In any case, experience suggests that market-based emission controls work.”
Soames
June 15th, 2010
8:10 am
Marc,
I suggest reading Peter Morici’s (another well known economist) articles rather than Krugman….at least he doesn’t let politics shape his thinking
Steve
June 15th, 2010
8:31 am
Once again, Obama is slow to move on a crisis. 8 weeks to sit down with the CEO of BP to discuss this. Here’s a hint, 8 weeks later is not leading. That’s being forced to schedule a meeting due to mounting public & media pressure.
johnboy
June 15th, 2010
8:45 am
jesus. can’t you people start seeing that our current energy plans which are dependent on fossil fuels is a growing disaster? quit calling green energy some radical theory and start looking at the economic benefits to switching over to them. if this country were to create the industrial base for building solar energy cells, wind turbines and such it could revolutionize and dramatically improve our economy by creating jobs, creating incentives for our youth to focus on engineering and science and reducing our dependence on foreign suppliers of our fossil fuel dependence. to allow the current energy industry to continue to operate as it is, is simply an invitation for future disasters on the scale of the gulf oil crisis.
Brad
June 15th, 2010
8:48 am
OK, Kyle, let’s discuss the energy/environmental proposals coming from the right. Hm, I guess there’s still only one: screw the impact, let’s make money.
ATLBadger
June 15th, 2010
8:56 am
I agree. Cap and trade sucks. I’d greatly prefer a carbon tax instead.
Horrible Horrace
June 15th, 2010
9:00 am
This latest trend, that of the world “going green”, is just pure nonsense and a play on the dullards of the world whereby the eletists want to raise taxes and control more of your lives.
Wake up idiots.
JKL2
June 15th, 2010
9:01 am
Drill, Baby, Drill
The only place the Demwits want to drill is your wallet.
That Dept of Energy has been really good at getting us independent of for foreign oil. More props to Jimmy Carter. I wish we could have 10 more government agencies that worked that good. With any luck, the 158 new ones started by Obamacare will reach such glory.
Nothing like skyrocketing energy costs to jumpstart an economy. Maybe if there was some way we could add another 15% tax to everything people buy…
Horrible Horrace
June 15th, 2010
9:02 am
Johnboy…be sure to park your automobile, turn off your a/c, eat your foods raw, wash your clothes down by the creek and eat all your garbage.
Chess
June 15th, 2010
9:08 am
I really don’t think people understand how many commercial, household and industrial items we make out of petroleum. An example is the very equipment fisherman use to catch fish. Guess where nylon comes from.
Cheney allowed the oil industry to go unregulated. Obama is going to handle this issue but he has to be careful what enemies he creates. Cheney’s old cronies cares nothing about the flag. Just cash flow. Period.
G
June 15th, 2010
9:16 am
Much like medical care which is erroniously called health insurance in this country (nice branding though by freaking HMO’s eh) This could be a good thing in reason but we don’t have reasonable people running the country and we haven’t for sometime meaning….. This is going to be a freaking boondoggle.
BP needs more regulation. Unfortuately their incompetant leadership has proven that they are incapable of operating safely on thier own without seperate government watchdogs punching them in the face when they do wrong.
What they have wrought now is going to be hell on those of us who are neither poor nor wealthy. The gap is going to get wider because we’re not going to be able to afford any of this.
Great and lofty ideas sure… but executed poorly. We need businessmen in charge of the finances of our government and visionaries to dream up plans…. that way the businessmen can shoot down the ones that don’t fit the budget. Our politicians don’t seem to understand the concept of finite resources.
joe
June 15th, 2010
9:16 am
Shocking that Rev Al is criticizing a writer of an AJC blog…didn’t think he had it in him since all he does on CT’s blog is agree with every single thing that she types. I guess he doesn’t have one single thought of his own that isn’t planted in his mind by the ignorant ramblings of CT, MSM (main stream media) and any liberal talking head…hey Al, why don’t you turn on Herman Cain, 7pm on WSB radio. You might learn something. There’s still time, you can be saved!
In The Arena
June 15th, 2010
9:19 am
Prepare yourselves for the most disjointed, infuriating speech that Obama has given yet. He will use this crisis, which resulted in the loss of 11 lives, to push his own, completely unrelated agenda. He will brag about his own accomplishments and tell you about the great work Steven Chu has done and will continue to do. Steven Chu does not know one darn thing about wetlands restoration.
Why does it take 5 days for any request from the Plaquemines Parish government to even get to the desk of Thad Allen? Each request from the local parish government should be addressed within 5 minutes, not 5 days. Imagine how many more miles of coastline would not have been ruined had Obama not put it place such complex, debilitating bureaucracy.
People along the Gulf Coast and throughout the country have been and are fighting to stop the ruin, but our government is getting in the way, actively hurting the containment and recovery efforts. Keep that in mind while Obama gloats tonight and attempts to destroy all energy production capacity in America.
Randy
June 15th, 2010
9:19 am
Well the liberal media(except FOX ) wanted a liberal democrate in office. Now we are all suffering. Maybe we should elect another CLOWN, who tells everybody what they want to hear and has no idea what to do in a crisis.
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
9:31 am
If the nation had begun the drive towards energy independence when we were urged to under the CARTER Administration rather than allow the Reagan Administration to remove the R&D incentives for alternative energy, where do you think the nation would be now?? Why is Siemens now the leader in wind turbine technology when GE was the innovator?? Short-sighted viewpoint of conservative politicians led us down this path!!
BTW – why aren’t the oil wells in Texas and Oklahoma that were capped in the early 70s by the oil companies under the guise that it’s CHEAPER to get oil from OVERSEAS uncapped and producing oil domestically?? Hmmmmm…….
Overkill
June 15th, 2010
9:31 am
Name calling from the left…………… Why is it so difficult to cap this leak in the gulf? Could it be due in part to the fact the drilling site is 65 miles off shore and 5 miles deep? Did BP make a decision to drill there based solely on the fact they like to work 5 miles down? I think not. Just for a minute let’s all think rationally. What if this oil spill was happening in say, 500 feet of water? Would it have been capped by now? Is it easier to solve problems closer to shore in shallower water? Can we all understand that part ( not all by any means ) of the problem lies in the restrictive rules that govern where ANY company can drill?
The President has no leadership skills or experience. That is not a shot or an insult, it is the fact. What has he led in the past? What crisis has he handled? What success has he had in the past? He has written 2 very successful books. So has Peter Benchley but that does not qualify HIM to lead. The President has now decided to use the spill to increase government power. No surprise there. He says he “Didn’t want to take over the auto industry or banking industry” and now he won’t “Want to take over the oil company” as well.
He has already suggested BP drop dividend payments to share holders. Who does the President think the shareholders are? Big evil “Wall Street Fat Cats”? How about pension funds all over the world that close to a million people depend on for income past retirement.
Good grief, what happened to the President leading by using the resources of the most powerful civil engineering nation on earth? Can we not apply the Corps of Engineers, the Navy, Coast Guard and National Guard to the engineering and logistical problems tin the Gulf? Shaking his finger at BP and saying he is not interested in words, but only action while he refuses to take action ( beyond “Hearings” in congress) is a prime example of what happens when agitators are elected. They spend all their time decrying the past ( Bush bashing anyone? ) and have no plan to actually lead when a crisis hits.
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
9:38 am
In The Arena June 15th, 2010
9:19 am
The levels of bureaucracy need to be streamlined in situations like this; I do agree with you on that aspect….but the bureaucracy was always there….and compounded under the Bush Administration with its cronyism. If you desire to be honest, let’s place the blame where it should be: short-sighted visions by conservative politicians creating an energy policy derived by oil companies solely for profit!!
Randy June 15th, 2010
9:19 am
Not everybody is suffering in the nation; in some cases, the suffering index was higher when GWB was in the White House (DEFINITELY in my case!). What needs to be said tonight is this:
1) CAFE standards within 5 years shuld be 50MPG
2) R&D credits for alternative ebergy will be increased
3) Domestic oil production will be limited to shallow water drilling until safety measures are put in place to prevent what we’re experiencing now
4) Expedited approval for nuclear power plant construction
5) Drilling platforms shall use the European standard for blow out preventers
That’s the start………
Overkill
June 15th, 2010
9:40 am
Enter your comments here
tar and feathers party
June 15th, 2010
9:40 am
Now RoytheCrook wants to steal the gold off the Capital Dome! Will he give it to his out of state lawyer cronies as a “contingency fee” as he did with 100 million Medicaid dollars, or will he give it to his instate developer cronies as he did with Georgia 400 Toll Road Money, imho?
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
9:47 am
Overkill June 15th, 2010
9:31 am
“Can we all understand that part ( not all by any means ) of the problem lies in the restrictive rules that govern where ANY company can drill?”
Question: Who created the rules? Remember the “energy summit” led by Dick Cheney; the OIL COMPANIES created the rules FOR the government….so let’s place the blame where it should lie….
You asked about applying the engineering prowess of the Corps of Engineers…but the CofE were the ones that built the levees that surrounded New Orleans…and look what happened during Katrina. The technical expertise to handle such scenarios rests with the OIL COMPANIES……
Another question: Why are you asking the GOVERNMENT to solve this problem when conservatives want the government OUT of the way of private industry?? That’s a dichotomy of the nth degree, isn’t it?? Why shouldn’t BP be forced to pay its dividends to stopping the leak that IT, Halliburton, and TransOcean are solely responsible for?? If BP declares bankruptcy, then the FIRST order of payment should be to those who have been adversely affected in the Gulf and the clean-up efforts!!
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
10:07 am
ATLBadger: A carbon tax would be much more intellectually honest. But it won’t happen because it doesn’t empower elected officials the way a trading scheme does.
HDB: Nixon talked about energy independence years before Carter. It was as much of a false hope then as it is now.
Aquagirl
June 15th, 2010
10:08 am
“Can we all understand that part ( not all by any means ) of the problem lies in the restrictive rules that govern where ANY company can drill?”
BP was drilling there because we’ve tapped more easily recovered reserves. Duh. As the price of oil rises, oil companies look for sources that are more difficult to extract and process. Meanwhile, a lot of people who hate us have easier access to their oil, giving them a sure road to dominate us in the 21st century.
I don’t believe for one second wingnuts have forgotten basic capitalism, you just bleat about it when trying to shift blame on “enviro-wackos” instead of owning up to your own damn mess.
Glenn
June 15th, 2010
10:09 am
This would be a perfect time for the government to take over & fully run the oil industry . The system can’t be gamed if it is controlled by the house . They could sell it at a cheaper price as well . This is the perfect time to expand government into the energy & healthcare industry .
Road Scholar
June 15th, 2010
10:14 am
Kyle, I guess that the high costs of energy elsewhere will not affect the companies…Oh, you mean Europe and China who have invested heavily in alternate energy and have set 20 year goals in achieve petor independance.
Steve: Does the President and the CEO have magic skills to stop the flow? It’s the people who call themselves expets that will stop it. If you are such an expert, then where is your plan?
Overkill: They drilled for oil there because they found oil based on geological (sorry for the big word) studies. BP’s expertise is finding oil. We didn’t know that they didn’t know squat after they found it!
if they are so pushed to drill deeper, then why does shell have a well 8000 ft down in the gulf? Why do you suppose they drilled there? Could it be revenue based?
Road Scholar
June 15th, 2010
10:15 am
Enter your comments hereSorry, petor+ petrol
booger
June 15th, 2010
10:22 am
Immediately after the blowout, BP wanted to cut and cap the well, which has been proven the most successful temporary solution to date. The EPA refused this approach since it could temporariy increase the flow of oil from the well. This led to the dome attempt, and the siphoning operation which had marginal success. Finally the cut and cap method was approved and has proved quite successful. The government is responsible for a great deal of the oil in the gulf due to their tampering.
The Dutch government offered to send ships with skimming equipment three days after the blowout and were politely told no by our government. These ships are capable of skimming 20,000 tons of oil per day. Now finally Obama has said they could help, but how much more of the oil would already be cleaned up if not for our government?
The La. governor wanted to build a sand island as a barrier to oil getting into some of the more sensetive areas of the coastal wetlands. EPA said there had to be an environmental impact study first. By the time they said OK, it was too late.
Seems to me our government is directly responsible for much of the oil floating around the gulf today.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
10:27 am
No, Road Scholar, I mean places like Mexico and Morocco and Vietnam. And the next lofty goal that the Europeans actually meet, as opposed to merely setting, will be the first.
Gator Joe
June 15th, 2010
10:30 am
Kyle,
I believe you’re more professional than you demonstrate by using little phrases such as “Government Motors.” If such a company exists, please provide the evidence. How about the “aid” Blackwater and Halliburton received?
As for the current disasterous course “we” (yes, you’re in for the ride whether you believe it or not) are on, I guess you’re comfortable with doing nothing to address the inevitable destruction of the environment- or hopefully, the eventual end of oil supply. Kyle, respectfully, keep your head in the sand, as the climate warms only your backside will be scorched.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
10:38 am
Simple question, Gator Joe: How many shares of Blackwater and Halliburton does the government own?
And my answer to your second part will sound familiar to anyone who followed the health-care debate on this blog: “doing something” is not always an improvement. It is possible to make matters worse. And that’s exactly what would happen under a plan to redistribute trillions of dollars without having any effect on the climate (ask Democrats how much we will lower temperatures if we reduce our emissions even by 80 percent by 2050).
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
10:44 am
Kyle Wingfield June 15th, 2010
10:07 am
HDB: Nixon talked about energy independence years before Carter. It was as much of a false hope then as it is now.
Kyle….lest you forget…the OIL COMPANIES in 1969 said that it was CHEAPER to import the oil from the MIddle East…and the CAPPED functioning wells in Texas and Oklahoma!! The oil companies also bought and destroyed plans for two cars on the 60s that GM and Chrysler designed to run on alcohol-based fuels..and they destroyed the plans for a 100MPG carburetor in 1973!! The Brazilians became energy independent by converting to alcohol-based fuels…..and the oil companies have held the US prisoner since the late 60s……
It’s NOT a false hope…..but a “conspiracy of neglect by design”!!
CJ
June 15th, 2010
10:48 am
Kyle: “…[cap-and-trade] represents an enormous opportunity for politicians to game the system by favoring certain industries over others…”
That’s exactly the point of cap-and-trade! (Kyle wants us to believe that Republicans don’t already seek to game the system in favor of big banks and big oil—among others)
And for all the so-called deficit hawks out there, the cap-and-trade bill is scored by the CBO/JCT to reduce the deficit. (Probably gimmicks, right Kyle?)
Incidentally, if Kyle wonders why I *like* to call him a hack, it’s because of stupidity like this: “After eight weeks, President Obama has decided he needs to stop letting our crisis in the Gulf of Mexico go unexploited…”
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
10:50 am
Kyle….almost forgot – under Carter, the R&D for alternative energy and wind technology was a tax incentive that allowed GE to be the innovator in wind turbine technology; when Reagan came to the White House and a Republican-controlled Congress rewrote the tax code and took that tax incentive out at the behest of the OIL COMPANIES…..now Siemens leads in wind turbine technology!! When Corporate America took over parts of the government, innovation was stymied so that the oil companies could prosper……..
In The Arena
June 15th, 2010
10:51 am
HDB – 9:38 AM
This has nothing to do with the past. All that had to happen for bureaucracy to be streamlined was for Admiral Thad Allen to give Plaquemines Parish president Billy Nungesser his cell phone number so Plaquemines could have a direct line of contact. Instead the parish government had to jump through 5 days of hoops just to talk to Allen. Cable news outlets had better access to Allen than the local governments of the areas being devastated.
HDB – 9:47 AM
The Corps has a long history of incompetance. The words “Corps of Engineers” is a curse word in Louisiana. Let all the oil companies collaborate with the best and brightest engineers (private sector), without government hinderance. Obama has repeatedly praised his own engineers and their ability to cap the well and restore wetlands. Steven Chu may have a Nobel prize, but it was in a completely unrelated field.
Obama better prove tonight that he does not favor energy dependence. I am afraid he might prove that he does, and then we will know why he bows to the Saudi king. Any comments that further impede domestic energy production will prove that he is for dependence and will also prove that he is oblivious to the tragic plight of Louisiana. I will give him every opportunity to prove me wrong. I hope he does.
LibraryJim
June 15th, 2010
10:58 am
What suggestions are coming from the right? I heard this on CNN yesterday, but a Republican member of Congress:
Clean coal
Nuclear
solar and wind (but as he admitted, they were not at the point where they could be considered a major contributor to sustainable energy yet)
drilling in oil rich land areas
Shale oil
I can’t understand how liberals just spout off their talking points without checking the facts first.
http://www.gop.gov/solutions/energy
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
11:03 am
So, CJ, you are in favor of rigging the system as long as you like the beneficiary? Because I’d love for you to point out where I’ve written in favor of corporate welfare. And as you seem to acknowledge, corporate welfare — not protecting the environment — is what cap and trade is all about.
As for the deficit scoring, yes: Anyone who knows anything about the CBO knows that it has to score a bill based on the parameters that Congress gives it. If Congress says, “We’ll auction all the credits” — when everyone knows they won’t — then the CBO has to score the bill as if all the credits will be auctioned. Just like when Congress said about the health bill, “We won’t implement the doc fix” — when everyone knew they would — the CBO had to score the bill on that basis.
And yes, I consider that kind of maneuvering by Congress to be gimmickry.
wex
June 15th, 2010
11:06 am
Until the very hypocrites that spout nonsense on this blog ditch their own cars, turn off their electricity (which includes computers), and start eating what they grow themselves, it’s laughable for anyone to take these hypocrites seriously.
Hell, you know Obama doesn’t want to really get us off oil. How else will he get to all his fancy, expensive, tax payer funded, lavish dates and vacations????
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
11:07 am
Finally, CJ, if you read the Democratic talking points — another one of your favorite terms! — leading up to tonight’s speech, it’s crystal clear that exploiting the crisis to jump-start a foundering legislative goal is exactly what they’re doing, and they’re not even trying to hide that fact. This White House is the one that talks about never letting a crisis go to waste.
But keep trying. I need the laughs.
Road Scholar
June 15th, 2010
11:13 am
Kyle: Germany has set a goal of 20 % renewable energy usage by 2020 in 2000. In 2008 they were at 11-12%. Sounds like they’re going to make it. How you ask? Tax incentivs and banks who are taking risks investing in tried and true devices. Photo cells in farmers fields (they still grow all the crops they want), barns, roofs, and building walls.
Denmark, even with all their oil, has set a similar goal.
Reading your posts and responses, I thought that all Mexicans were in the US!
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
11:15 am
In The Arena June 15th, 2010
10:51 am
If we are to REALLY be honest, let’s see if the President says this tonight:
1) The moritorium on domestic offshore drilling will remain in place until safety measures are fully defined and implemented by the oil companies
2) All oil rigs will be subject to US inspection…not that of the Marshall Islands
3) Energy independence is the goal within the next 10 years
4) CAFE standards will increase to 50MPG in 5 years
5) Expedited approvals for nuclear power plants
6) Oil rigs will be standardized for blowout preventers (European/North Sea)
7) Increased R&D tax incentives for alternative energy technology, engineering standards to improve automotive efficiencies
That’s the beginning…..and I think he’s going that way!!!
wex
June 15th, 2010
11:15 am
Kyle,
BTW, Please don’t ban me for simply posting informative facts and realities. One of your female colleagues has a serious issue with these sorts of pesky annoyances.
xyz
June 15th, 2010
11:16 am
Hmmm….Energy independence yet the kooks don’t want us to drill for our own oil? Hmmm…..ok….yeah…..
Atlantan
June 15th, 2010
11:16 am
…but Obama is going to “do all we can to make the gulf coast BETTER than it was before.” I won’t be tuning in tonight, how could he possibly top that stupid comment?
Road Scholar
June 15th, 2010
11:17 am
Kyle: Have you seen the movie” Whatever happened to the electric car”? GM had on and distributed it to California and select other locations. MARTA hasad some and a friend (Asst GM then) drove one and din’t want to give it up! She said it was wonderful! So, what happened to it? Did the gas companies “buy out” GM?
Steve
June 15th, 2010
11:18 am
Road Scholar,
As I (nor probably you) am not a deep water drilling expert, it’s not about me (or you) having a plan.
Obama has indicated on numerous occassions he is on top of this disaster, but has refused to meet with the CEO of the company involved indicating “He knows what their answers will be”. So what if he does know the answer(s) ahead of time. Does that mean he shouldn’t have meet with Tony?
This is the political side of the issue, where Obama is suppose to shine. Granted, it’s all PR and BS, but the public want and need to see that. Otherwise all his talk of “being on top of the crisis” comes across as hollow.
During the past few weeks I have seen Gov Bobby Jindal’s face in the news much more than Obama’s. He knows the equipment they need and has been begging to get it there. From a PR perspective, he has rolled up his sleeves and is working on this as their top priority (as it is). Obama’s administration has NOT delivered on the quantity of equipment that has been requested. He seems to be a day late for everything about this. Monday he finally accepted aid from foreigh countries who can assist with the cleanup even though they had begun offering that help within days of the disaster happening. Why did that not happen for almost two months. Based on the expression “perception is reality”, Obama lacks the ability to handle a major crisis like this.
craziness
June 15th, 2010
11:19 am
The truth of the matter is, the Global Warming fear mongers on the left will not be satisfied until everyone, but them, are stuck using horse and buggies while hunting for their own breakfast, lunch and dinner every day. Meanwhile, they get to keep their fleets of cars, private jets, mansions, etc.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
11:20 am
Road: I realize 2008 may be the most recent data available, but I would hazard a guess that Germany’s investment in renewables, public or private, has fallen off since the financial crash that year, and that the trajectory of renewables usage will flatten out as well.
Spain’s experience shows that governments (and energy consumers, since renewable generators get largesse on both ends) can’t sustain the subsidies required to pump up these industries.
Road Scholar
June 15th, 2010
11:20 am
Library Jim: So, other than oil, and bitching about nuclear, what have they done about it, other than stopping Obama?
LibraryJim
June 15th, 2010
11:21 am
Road,
the title of the 2006 documentary is “Who Killed the Electric Car?”.
riff
June 15th, 2010
11:22 am
Not only does the assembly of electric cars require butt loads of energy and oil dependent machinery, but isn’t a car running on electricity just as bad and hypocritical?
LibraryJim
June 15th, 2010
11:22 am
Road, what CAN they do about it? They are in a minority in both houses. Sometimes it takes a kick in the pants to get someone moving on something. Like loss of (squandered) power.
Road Scholar
June 15th, 2010
11:25 am
Kyle: I guess we need to go to work to find out what Germany has done recently, huh? Everytime an alternate comes along, the price of oil dips.Interesting? Coincidence? My BP has regular at 2.499/gal.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
11:27 am
And where does the electricity for those electric cars come from, Road? For now and the foreseeable future, it’s going to be coal.
And who ends up being the biggest beneficiary from the installation of wind and solar? The people who sell the natural gas that powers the turbines when the wind isn’t blowing and the sun isn’t shining.
How much territory would have to be covered by wind turbines or solar panels to match the energy output we get from coal? How many humans animals and ecosystems would that affect?
Life is about tradeoffs. The apparent idea that all of the negative consequences come from oil is extremely myopic.
LibraryJim
June 15th, 2010
11:28 am
riff, the creation of tone battery for the Prius pollutes just as badly as all the cars running in North America for a year.
as one website points out:
“The Prius’ battery contains nickel [and rare earth metals such as dysprosium and neodymium], which is mined in Ontario Canada. The plant that smelts this nickel is apparently nicknamed “the Superstack” because of the amount of pollution it puts out; the area for miles around it is a wasteland because of acid rain and air pollution.
That smelted nickel then has to travel (via container ship) to Europe to be refined, then to China to be made into “nickel foam,” then to Japan for assembly, and finally to the United States. All this shipment for each tiny step in the production process costs a great deal, both in dollars and in pollution.”
Road Scholar
June 15th, 2010
11:29 am
Library Jim: Thanks for the correction.
While the Repubs are a minority in both houses, the more moderates (both parties) could form a coalition (remember how it used to be) to define, negotiate and write GOOD legislation that will benefit this country, not one political party. Why not? Isn’t this why they were elected?
LibraryJim
June 15th, 2010
11:29 am
correction:
“the creation of ONE battery” not ‘tone’.
LibraryJim
June 15th, 2010
11:31 am
I am not against a coalition. (COALition???) and yes, that is why they were elected. However, Pelosi and Reid seem diametrically opposed to hearing any ideas to the contrary of what they want proposed, and continually shut out alternative voices from either party.
Obama the one term dumb @ss
June 15th, 2010
11:43 am
Well, he securing a huge defeat for the DNCC and his place in history as the worst idiot in the White House since Carter.
Kanye West
June 15th, 2010
11:45 am
Obama hate sea turtles. He don’t care bout dem birds neither. Buy my new album: The GED.
Rev. Al Sharptongue hates whitey
June 15th, 2010
11:46 am
Why does Rev. Shatongue hate white people so much?
Rev. Al Sharptongue hates whitey
June 15th, 2010
11:50 am
“So, other than oil, and bitching about nuclear, what have they done about it, other than stopping Obama?”
The GOP hasn’t been in power since 2006.
Bobby Jindal tells Obama to EFF off
June 15th, 2010
12:00 pm
Gov. Bobby Jindal Orders National Guard to Build Barrier Wall Off Louisiana Shore
Eight weeks into the oil spill disaster in the Gulf of the Mexico, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal has told the National Guard that there’s no time left to wait for BP, so they’re taking matters into their own hands.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/article/bp-oil-spill-gov-bobby-jindal-orders-national/story?id=10914348
CJ
June 15th, 2010
12:00 pm
Kyle @11:07,
You’re projecting. For more information about the history of not letting a crisis go to waste and which side of the political spectrum has successfully implemented such a tactic, consider reading “The Shock Doctrine” by Naomi Klein: http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine
And for the record, your statement that others are promoting the idea that “all of the negative consequences come from oil” is a another straw man. If you replace the word “all” with “more”, then your false inference will be within range of the truth.
JackLeg
June 15th, 2010
12:02 pm
Marc, I want your connection for the chronic, if you want to give Owl Gore money feel free to but I don’t want to give money to a loser so he can heat his house, which uses 15 times the energy of an average house, and fly around on his plane which produces more carbon than a small town, so he can give a speech. For an alternative look at George Bush’s house, all green energy and uses 1/25 the powers of a conventional construction, all without giving Owl Gore one dime. So look at the FACTS, who is the conservative here?
Bob Loblaw
June 15th, 2010
12:03 pm
“Naomi Klein”
Oh wow, so we’re supposed to believe an Obama cult follower?
“another straw man.”
Oh you mean like you and other democrat voters who always shout “Haliburton Haliburton Haliburton!”
Liberals=liars and convicted felons
June 15th, 2010
12:05 pm
If Al Gore is so great, why does he do the opposite of what he tells other people to do?
Obama dumbo ears
June 15th, 2010
12:05 pm
That dude can catch flight with them things
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:06 pm
This morning on Morning Joe, a NY Times journalist said that Obama is learning on the job. That’s interesting because left wing idiots said that Sarah Palin had no experience leading….
Obama=one term
Greg
June 15th, 2010
12:06 pm
Just because Gore has made a massive fortune off his fear mongering, junk science using, Global Warming scheme doesn’t make him a hypocrite.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:07 pm
Good idea: Let’s take all the environmentalists like Al Gore and shove them all in the oil hole. Their inflated egos should be able to stop the oil leak.
We’d kill two birds with one stone.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:08 pm
“Global Warming scheme doesn’t make him a hypocrite.”
It does and it also makes him a complete loser. The guy has and never will get over the fact that he lost to W in 2000.
kearns
June 15th, 2010
12:09 pm
I wonder how much BP regrets backing the Messiah during his campaign….
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:13 pm
“I wonder how much BP regrets backing the Messiah during his campaign….”
A lot.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
12:15 pm
Typical CJ, trying to deflect from the White House’s own words by citing someone who said somebody else did the same thing.
And if you’ll offer the first acknowledgment on here by an oil critic of the problems associated with energy sources other than oil, I’ll be happy to use “most” or “more” next time.
Rev Al DickLick
June 15th, 2010
12:16 pm
Good job Kyle.
You do your homework unlike that insultingly ignorant emotionally scarred left nut Sindy Sucker.
Keep on thwarting these goober’s fiction with facts. Left nuts don’t seem to have an economic bone in their body, though Rev Al Sharptongue does like a big hard one in his mouth.
Actually, if we could cut off oil for awhile just to watch these chicken little cry babies starve to death and shut up, it would be a worthwhile trade-off.
And keep in mind, geo-thermal is potentially a practical mass energy solution.
CJ
June 15th, 2010
12:18 pm
Sorry Kyle, I missed your 11:03.
As you know, the doc fix is independent legislation that existed well before the Affordable Care Act (when Republican-led Congresses passed it) and would have been necessary without the Affordable Care Act. Your dishonest conflating of the cost of the doc fix with the health care reform legislation makes no more sense than conflating this expense with the cost of agricultural subsidies (i.e., welfare for millionaires).
And yes, both the left and right are in favor of rigging the system as long as we like the beneficiaries (e.g., financial institutions, big oil, big pharma, military industrial complex, military industrial complex, agricultural subsidies,…). The difference is that the left primarily seeks to rig the system to preserve the environment, reduce poverty, and grow the middle class, while the right seeks to enrich the rich.
CJ
June 15th, 2010
12:23 pm
“…if you’ll offer the first acknowledgment on here by an oil critic of the problems associated with energy sources other than oil, I’ll be happy to use “most” or “more” next time.”
I think I just did. But for your edification, yes, clean energy sources are not without problems—they just pale in comparison to those associated with fossil fuels.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:24 pm
CJ
Go ahead and blame Halliburton and Bush for all of Obama’s stupidity. It’s fun to watch you left wingers implode.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:25 pm
CJ
Al Gore has billions of dollars. In all of these years scamming people, why does he not use “clean energy” to get around?
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
12:26 pm
CJ, your 12:18 is the most quintessentially CJ-ish post of all time: Blame me for the way the Democrats sold their own bill.
And that second paragraph? How could I say more about its pure, blindly partisan nature — its CJ-ness — than it says about itself?
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:28 pm
CJ
Obama was given more money by BP than ANY other politician. You left wingers seem to think that democrats are saints. You and other left wingers rant and rail on “rich people” yet most democrat senators are rich people.
Rich Democrats:
Al Gore, Barak Obama, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, John F. Kerry, Henry Waxman, Harry Reid, Maxine Waters, Barbera Boxer, Ben Nelson, Dick Durbin, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Hollywood…………………..
But, in your simple mind, only republicans are rich.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:29 pm
“Blame me for the way the Democrats sold their own bill.”
Democrats and democrat voters blame everyone else for their own stupid mistakes. It’s the only thing they know how to do.
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
12:42 pm
MSNBC=low ratings June 15th, 2010
12:29 pm
You forgot something…….
…from Reuters:
Donations come from a mix of employees and the company’s political action committees – $2.89 million flowed to campaigns from BP-related PACs and about $638,000 came from individuals.
The top congressional recipients of BP campaign cash include Republican Rep. Don Young of the oil-intensive Alaska delegation, who has received almost as much as Obama, raking in $73,300 during his congressional tenure. Also on the list is Sen. George Voinovich (R-Ohio), whose state has a BP refinery in Toledo and who has raked in $41,400. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has received $44,899.
Soames
June 15th, 2010
12:43 pm
CJ – All of this talk about growing the middle class is pure gibberish.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
12:48 pm
Last thing I’ll say about the doc fix and ObamaCare: Start reading at the bottom of page 13 of this PDF, the CBO’s final cost estimate for the bill: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11379/AmendReconProp.pdf
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:49 pm
HDB`
Obama is the president of the USA. Not Mccain, Not Young. Obama is the one pointing and blaming BP for everything even though he gave them a top award for safety.
People like you can’t handle the fact that Obama is a colossal hypocrite. Obama is THE biggest recipient of BP cash.
Oh, and I noticed your comments over on the race hustlers page and how under Obama a black man can get a job. If a black man can’t get a job unless a black president is in office, then said black man is either an idiot or a liar.
People like you play the race card because you can’t argue facts.
CJ
June 15th, 2010
12:50 pm
Soames,
With a little research, you might find how many people were added to the middle class during the Clinton administration. Compare that with how many were added to the middle class under Bush. In fact, research these numbers since the turn of the 20th century, and I suspect, you might not like what you find.
While you’re at it. explore how many have been added to the middle class since Lula (Worker Party) replaced a right-wing president in Brazil in the early part of this decade (about 20 million is the figure I’ve heard).
If you want to grow the middle class, vote for a Democrat (preferably a liberal one).
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:52 pm
HDB`
Also, if democrats are champions of black people then why are black populated areas all poor and high in crime?
The perfect examples of this is the south side of Chicago. Obama’s playground. 23% unemployment and the highest crime rate in the entire country. Chicago is a democrat city and has been for over 30 years. If democrats help black people then why are black people still poor in democrat controlled areas?
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:55 pm
“With a little research, you might find how many people were added to the middle class during the Clinton administration.”
Ever heard of Reagan? He took the Carter disaster and turned it around.
“Compare that with how many were added to the middle class under Bush.”
Unemployment was 4.4% under Bush. Lower than it was under Clinton.
“explore how many have been added to the middle class since Lula (Worker Party) replaced a right-wing president in Brazil in the early part of this decade (about 20 million is the figure I’ve heard).”
Not sure what that has to do with America.
“If you want to grow the middle class, vote for a Democrat (preferably a liberal one).”
Yeah, you’ll get 10% unemployment and companies moving jobs overseas……..
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:55 pm
“If you want to grow the middle class, vote for a Democrat (preferably a liberal one).”
Please provide documented evidence where the middle class grew under a liberal Democrat.
CJ
June 15th, 2010
1:01 pm
“Please provide documented evidence where the middle class grew under a liberal Democrat.”
http://www.google.com/
You can start with FDR.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
1:04 pm
“You can start with FDR.”
LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!! You can’t even provide evidence of your asinine claim! When a person makes a claim and then can’t back it up, it proves that the person is a) a moron, b) unintelligent and c) a liar.
FDR never did anything but prolong the depression. If it weren’t for WW2 the depression would have gone on for 10+ years.
Funny how you have to go back that far in American history to find a Democrat………
By the way, SS is going broke as is Medicare……
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
1:06 pm
CJ
Just curious, in what field do you hold a degree in? The reason I ask is because no intelligent college grad would ever answer a question about his/her claim by posting a broad answer such as google.
If one makes a claim, one can back that claim up with facts.
You ma’am have done nothing but made a baseless claim….
NOW BACK IT UP!
CJ
June 15th, 2010
1:15 pm
Speaking of the doc fix, here’s a link Obama’s Weekly Address hitting on that very subject last Saturday.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/weekly-address
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
1:17 pm
CJ
Obama said he was going to be a transparent president. He lied. Obama said that the stimulus package would bring unemployment down. He lied. Obama said Health Care costs would go down. He lied. Obama said he was in the Gulf from day one. He lied. Obama said that he would close Gitmo. He lied. Obama said he was going to end the war in Iraq. He lied.
Notice there’s a pattern with the president.
Shane
June 15th, 2010
1:35 pm
“Just curious, in what field do you hold a degree in? The reason I ask is because no intelligent college grad would ever answer a question about his/her claim by posting a broad answer such as google.
If one makes a claim, one can back that claim up with facts.”
They might be thinking that you’d be smart enough to find it yourself instead of doing all the work, just to listen to you try to refute it.
commoncents
June 15th, 2010
1:42 pm
“Notice there’s a pattern with the president.”
Not just the president, because he couldn’t have done all that on his own
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
1:45 pm
“They might be thinking that you’d be smart enough to find it yourself instead of doing all the work, just to listen to you try to refute it.”
No, it means that CJ is either lying or he’s too lazy to find his own evidence. If you care to look at the above CJ comments, you’d see that CJ makes a lot of false claims.
DawgDad
June 15th, 2010
1:54 pm
Call me a consipiracy nut if you wish. This crisis was far too convenient and the timing far too suspicious to not seriously investigate the likelihood this was no pure accident or tragedy, but an intentional event. Follow the money, and the benefits accruing to the tyrants. Seems pretty cut and dried.
CJ
June 15th, 2010
2:03 pm
Steve Benen:
“For the left, political goals relate to policy ends. We want to expand access to quality health care. We want to lower carbon emissions to combat global warming. We want to reform the lending process for student loans so more young people can afford to go to college. We want to help retailers who can’t afford unfair fees. There are competing ways to get to where progressives want to go, but the focus is on the policy achievement.
The liberal worldview is not necessarily about increasing the size of government or raising taxes; those mechanisms are only valuable insofar as they reach the desired end-point. Whether the government increases or shrinks in the process is largely irrelevant.
For the right, it’s backwards, since the ideological goal is the achievement. Corker’s comments are straightforward — the goal isn’t about helping retailers or consumers; the goal is to limit government. Why? Because limiting government is good.
As Jon Chait explained a few years ago, ‘[I]f you have no particular a priori preference about the size of government and care only about tangible outcomes, then liberalism’s aversion to dogma makes it superior as a practical governing philosophy.’”
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_06/024265.php
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:08 pm
CJ
That asinine article is from a left wing ding bat like Kieth Olberwoman. It answers none of the statements from you. The Washington Monthly is about as relevant as Media Matters and Larry King.
Try again.
Sick of Dems
June 15th, 2010
2:09 pm
MSNBC-thank you for setting the record straight. I am so tired of Democrats blaming Bush…18 months into his presidency at what point is it Obama’s fault? The Dems have controlled Congress since 2006. I mean you have to exploit a good disaster right? How many more lies can this man come up with before we can get him out of office in 2012
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:10 pm
CJ
Again, explain how left wing politics advance the middle class. So far, a left wing president has sent unemployment from 8.8% to over 10%. The stimulus bill failed. The health care bill will bankrupt the country and he’s yet to lead.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:14 pm
Sick of Dems
Left wingers don’t argue facts. They sidetrack from the issues by either bringing up Haliburton, Rush Limbaugh and now calling people tea baggers.
You’ll notice that not one left winger has provided any documented evidence on how and what Obama has done that has helped America. Blaming Bush worked back in 2006 and 2008. The country is over that and they want leadership and transparency. None of which Obama offers.
Take HDB for example. HDB will get into a debate and then blame everything on white people. That kind of mentality is what keeps black people down.
Anyhoo, it’s pretty easy rebuking and slamming left wingers in an argument. All you have to do is post facts. If they call you names you know you’ve won the debate.
Sick of Dems
June 15th, 2010
2:15 pm
MSNBC-Maybe you should run for office. Hey just have a debate with Obama without a telpromter in front of him. We all need a little comic relief while the Dems are distroying our country
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
2:19 pm
CJ @ 2:03: a liberal quoting a liberal quoting a liberal about the greatness of liberalism with its “aversion to dogma” and complete neutrality about “whether the government increases or shrinks in the process” of solving problems, except that — gosh darn it! — increasing government always happens to be the answer. Just a coincidence. Who’d a thunk it?!?
You’re on a roll today, buddy. Keep ‘em coming!
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:20 pm
“Maybe you should run for office.”
Nah, if I wanted to make less money I’d go and work as a social worker.
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
2:21 pm
MSNBC=low ratings June 15th, 2010
12:49 pm
My point to you was that BP did not just contribute to Obama’s campaign….I wanted you to note the Republicans that are also under BP’s influence…and I will also include the entire Louisians Congressional delegation…both Mary Landrieu and David Vitter. Neither side can claim not to be under BP’s influence.
Since you were referring to my comments in Cynthia’s blog, I was stating that it was easier for a black person to find employment under Obama’s Administration due to the fact that he is a DEMOCRAT…not because Obama’s black. I was stating that I know of at least one black person who was able to progress further financially because of the change of administration……
The person does not have to be an idiot or a liar….but cognizant of his individual situation..personally and politically!!
BTW: Not all black areas are poor and crime-ladened; the question that you should ask is this: What economic areas in urbana have a high crime rate? Answer: Those with a lesser amount of economic opportunity and sub-par educational facilities…….Those who have taken advantage of the educational capabilities have progressed…….
Having lived in Chicago, Atlanta, Denver, Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, Misnnespolis/St. Paul, and Des Moines, that paradigm holds true for whatever area you can envision….and not just black areas either…..
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
2:26 pm
MSNBC=low ratings June 15th, 2010
2:14 pm
I have never blamed EVERY mishap on white people…but I HAVE blamed certain mishaps on the POLITICAL CLIMATE!! There have been white people who have both positively and negatively influenced me….but when I assess blame in the politcal sense, that blame has been determined by the experiences I have lived!! I also use facts to make an argument and attemot to debate from a logical point!! I like a good, spirited debate….but also know that my experiences will be different from many here!! Doesn’t make it wrong….just different!!
The only thing that can hold me down is a lack of desire…and that has yet to happen!!
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:26 pm
“Neither side can claim not to be under BP’s influence.”
You buy gas right? You’re also under BP influence. As well as Exxon etc….
“I was stating that it was easier for a black person to find employment under Obama’s Administration due to the fact that he is a DEMOCRAT”
Ever been to the south side of Chicago? That area has a 23% unemployment rate. Like I asked CJ, please provide facts that back up that claim.
“I was stating that I know of at least one black person who was able to progress further financially because of the change of administration……”
LOL!!!!!! First you write that it is easier for a black person and THEN you write that you only know of ONE black person………
“The person does not have to be an idiot or a liar”
Yes, they can also be lazy….
“What economic areas in urbana have a high crime rate? ”
Answer: black populated areas. See South Dekalb, Fulton Co……….
“Those with a lesser amount of economic opportunity and sub-par educational facilities”
Wouldn’t matter, they’d rather be out pretending to be 50 cent and Snoop Dog.
“and not just black areas either…”
Please post heavily white areas with high crime…………
kearns
June 15th, 2010
2:29 pm
DawgDad,
Absolutely. It smells incredibly fishy, no pun intended. I mean, a President sending down a S.W.A.T. team first thing? Hmm…..
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:29 pm
“I have never blamed EVERY mishap on white people”
You called Reagan, Bush, Limbaugh etc racists………. You once claimed that conservatives are racists….
Yet, you never remark on democrats who were KKK members. IE Robert Byrd
“I also use facts to make an argument and attemot to debate from a logical point!!”
No, you’ve only posted your opinion.
“The only thing that can hold me down is a lack of desire…and that has yet to happen!!”
That’s not what you wrote a few months ago.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:29 pm
kearns
Don’t forget the lawyers…. He sent them to fix the oil leak……
Fox News is a joke!
June 15th, 2010
2:29 pm
I get a chuckle out of the Obama bashers. Mind you, many of these are the fools that voted for the Bush-Cheney regime. Reminder, W. and Cheney (Bush Co.) sold the country to their corporate buddies, gave more wealth to the top 1%, stifled the middle class, oversaw the destruction of a major U.S. city, witness nearly 2,000 people die during Katrina, came into office with a surplus that quickly turned into debt, began two never-ending wars, grew the nation’s military machine, and were on the clock on September 11, 2001.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:31 pm
Fox News is a joke!…..and has higher ratings than every liberal outlet…..combined.
Keep blaming Bush! I’m sure it will get your party far come November! LOL
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:32 pm
“witness nearly 2,000 people die during Katrina”
Uh…………the death toll was nowhere near what you posted. Try again.
wex
June 15th, 2010
2:32 pm
HDB,
Your “facts” are nothing more than liberal propaganda. Hardly factual information. I am curious, you always speak of your “life experiences,” yet always in vague fashion. Why is that? Why no specifics?
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:33 pm
“oversaw the destruction of a major U.S. city, witness nearly 2,000 people die during Katrina”
So what was the LA government doing? Nagin ran, the LA governor ran and is now out of a job……..
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:34 pm
wex
HDB never posts facts. HDB posts his opinion and calls his opinions facts. Everything is whitey’s fault.
Democrat voters have low IQ's
June 15th, 2010
2:37 pm
Fact: Democrat voters are convicted felons, illegal aliens, dead people and welfare recipients.
Fact: Most liberals have degrees in liberal arts, art history, social work, pottery making and bong construction.
Fact: The average liberal lives off of their conservative parents money.
Fox News is a joke!
June 15th, 2010
2:40 pm
Fact: The most desired places to live in this nation, the U.S. cities with the most educated population, the most prestigious universities… all are in “liberal” areas.
Democrat voters have low IQ's
June 15th, 2010
2:43 pm
“The most desired places to live in this nation, the U.S. cities with the most educated population, the most prestigious universities… all are in “liberal” areas.”
Please post evidence to back up your opinion.
Fact: California, NY and Illinois are all going bankrupt.
Fact: Texas is the most stable state in the union….
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
2:46 pm
MSNBC=low ratings June 15th, 2010
2:26 pm
1) Yes, I’ve been to the South Side of Chicago….and the West…and the North! If you go past 82nd and Stony Isle, the South Side isn’t that bad of a place to live….and further south to Chicago Heights….
2) My point was pertaining to the change of administration….as I stated..I know of AT LEAST ONE (but I do know of more…but to prove a contrary point, one ONE example is needed)….
3) All urban areas have increased crime rates……downtown New York, the Loop in Chicago, Downtown Dallas/Ft. Worth………not just Fulton and DeKalb counties here…….even Des Moines and Minneapolis/St. Paul have high crime rates…….
4) Not everyone desires to be a rapper or a sports star; there are some in urban areas who desire to become teachers, doctors, firemen….and some go in the military. Many strive but have not been exposed to what can help them to progress. That exposure comes from multiple sources…but the schools are primary. If the educational system is failing, then the exposure to what creates the path towards progress is replaced by what is SEEN via the media. If the parental system is failing, then the exposure to what generates success is replaced by what can be expedited!!
Please post heavily white areas with high crime…………try Phoenix/Tuscon……..
“You called Reagan, Bush, Limbaugh etc racists………. You once claimed that conservatives are racists….” In the political sense….yes!! I stand by that!! If you look at MODERN political conservatism, from Barry Goldwater to present, it’s quite evident that it’s based on a racist paradigm!! We all know that both political parties have some racist characteristics…but the PRESENT DAY GOP continues wherein the Democrats attempt to ameliorate it………
“No, you’ve only posted your opinion”…I’ve posted my experiences…..and those ARE the facts of my life!! As I’ve said, it’s not wrong…just different!!
“The only thing that can hold me down is a lack of desire…and that has yet to happen!!” That’s not what you wrote a few months ago.” Please elaborate so that further expalanation can be given……
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:47 pm
Kyle
You know you’re doing something right when bloggers on Tuckers blog are blogging as “Kyle Wingfield SUX”
Kyle Wingfield SUXS
June 15th, 2010
2:47 pm
MSNBC=low ratings
http://economistsview. typepad.com/ economistsview /2008/04/what-have-you-d.html
Take out the space, if you type it in yahoo search the firsrt article is from the NY times.
Kyle Wingfield SUXS
June 15th, 2010
2:48 pm
Best Answer – Chosen by Asker
The middle class was much better under Clinton than Bush. The cuts are just one reason.
This from 2004: Since 2001, President Bush’s tax cuts have shifted federal tax payments from the richest Americans to a wide swath of middle-class families, the Congressional Budget Office has found, a conclusion likely to roil the presidential election campaign.
The CBO study, due to be released today, found that the wealthiest 20 percent, whose incomes averaged $182,700 in 2001, saw their share of federal taxes drop from 64.4 percent of total tax payments in 2001 to 63.5 percent this year. The top 1 percent, earning $1.1 million, saw their share fall to 20.1 percent of the total, from 22.2 percent
Over that same period, taxpayers with incomes from around $51,500 to around $75,600 saw their share of federal tax payments increase. Households earning around $75,600 saw their tax burden jump the most, from 18.7 percent of all taxes to 19.5 percent.
The analysis, requested in May by congressional Democrats, echoes similar studies by think tanks and Democratic activist groups. But the conclusions have heightened significance because of their source, a nonpartisan government agency headed by a former senior economist from the Bush White House, Douglas Holtz-Eakin
Unfortunately, the middle class was convinced they were helped by the tax cuts as well. The president told them they were.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/art…
The following article has many links to other problems for the middle class, including a Wall Street Journal article about healthcare. The middle class is hurting because health insurance as a percentage of income obviously hurts the middle class more.
http://www.house.gov/georgemiller/middle…
Conservative and liberal economists note that these new jobs are of lower quality than the millions that were lost. USA Today said that “jobs in lower-wage industries and regions are growing at a faster pace than higher-wage jobs.” And although Vice President Cheney says that “incomes and wages have been rising,” the Bureau of Labor Statistics disagrees: employers are cutting back on hours, and wages are not keeping pace with inflation, meaning that paychecks are buying less than they used to. Real earnings fell in June by more than 1 percent, which The New York Times reports is “the steepest decline since the depths of recession in mid-1991.” Now, even Wall Street economists are worrying that weak job and wage growth could undermine the entire economic recovery.
The cost of health care is a top squeeze factor for middle class families. Health care costs are increasing five times faster than inflation, according to the National Coalition on Health Care, and by 2006 the average family will pay more than $14,000 for their health insurance premiums. Little wonder a quarter of all middle class Americans were uninsured over the past two years: High costs are pricing too many families out of the insurance market.
Americans are paying more for gas, milk, and other necessities. Since last August, the annual rate of increase for average hourly earnings increased by less than 2 percent, while the consumer-price index rose by more then 3 percent. Meanwhile, gas prices increased by closer to 20 percent in the last year, and tuition at four-year public colleges have increased by almost 30 percent since 2001.
Kyle Wingfield SUXS
June 15th, 2010
2:50 pm
IT was a play on someone on CT’s blog. personally, haven’t really formed an opinion on whether he sucks or not.
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
2:50 pm
wex June 15th, 2010
2:32 pm
HDB,
Your “facts” are nothing more than liberal propaganda. Hardly factual information. I am curious, you always speak of your “life experiences,” yet always in vague fashion. Why is that? Why no specifics?
Which area do you require specificity? I’m glad to elaborate further!! When I DO speak in specifics, many wish to marginalize my experiences and say that it’s not true. When questioned on specifics, I will ANSWER specifically!! Fair enough!!
Just ask for which point you desire specifics….I will answer!
MSNBC…..I have the capability of answering for myself……please do not attempt to answer for me…..
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:52 pm
“All urban areas have increased crime rates……downtown New York, the Loop in Chicago, Downtown Dallas/Ft. Worth………not just Fulton and DeKalb counties here…….even Des Moines and Minneapolis/St. Paul have high crime rates…”
Funny, these crimes are committed by black people.
“If the parental system is failing, then the exposure to what generates success is replaced by what can be expedited!!”
You answered your own question. The black family unit is overwhelmingly non-existent.
“Please post heavily white areas with high crime…………try Phoenix/Tuscon…….”
LOLOL!!!!!! You really shot yourself in the foot! That high crime rate is do to illegal mexicans!
“but the PRESENT DAY GOP continues wherein the Democrats attempt to ameliorate it……”
Not one modern day GOPer was/is a KKK member. A Democrat senator is……..
“and those ARE the facts of my life!!”
Yeah, again, you post your own opinion. Not documented fact. Thanks for playing!
“Please elaborate so that further expalanation can be given……”
It’s all whiteys fault-HDB
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:54 pm
“MSNBC…..I have the capability of answering for myself……please do not attempt to answer for me…..”
Make me stop.
Some People are stupid
June 15th, 2010
2:54 pm
MSNBC=low ratings
So all crime is caused by blacks and Mexicans…wow…didn’t know that, so I guess the increasing murder rate in Milton and Johns Creek must mean the blacks are coming.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:57 pm
“So all crime is caused by blacks and Mexicans”
Illegal mexicans and blacks.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
2:58 pm
“IT was a play on someone on CT’s blog. personally, haven’t really formed an opinion on whether he sucks or not.”
You must have a low IQ.
Some People are stupid
June 15th, 2010
2:59 pm
MSNBC=low ratings
Just so you know, phoneix crimes are actually more attributed to whites than hispanics.(please ask me to show the statistics)
You probably live a lonely life. Probably somewhere in a double wide, drinking PBR watchin the fox news channel. Waiting to start your shift at the local gas station…shame..
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
2:59 pm
MSNBC=low ratings June 15th, 2010
2:52 pm
Not all crime is attributed to black people as many here persist in noting; you fail to mention the meth labs that are predominately in white communities; I mentioned Phoenix as a counter to an area that is innodated by BLACK crime!!
You persistently bring up Robert Byrd and the KKK….but what about the present John Birch Society? You don’t want to bring them into the mix? How about the Mormons….who discriminated against black people joining the Boy Scouts in Utah?? Look…it happens on both sides….but only PRESENT DAY POLITICAL CONSERVATISM continues a racist bent; you have yet to disprove that!!
BTW: How you have lived is a fact, correct?? WHat you have experienced is FACT, correct?? Same here — how I’ve lived and what I’ve experienced ARE facts….can not be changed….will not be marginalized……Granted, different from yours…but factual just the same……..
Kyle Wingfield SUXS
June 15th, 2010
3:00 pm
MSNBC=low ratings-
Yep, low iq here…
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
3:01 pm
“Just so you know, phoneix crimes are actually more attributed to whites than hispanics.”
LOL! Whatever you say.
“You probably live a lonely life.”
No, I’m actually married and live a happy life!
“Probably somewhere in a double wide, drinking PBR watchin the fox news channel.”
Love PBR and Fox. As for the double wide, no I actually have a very nice house in the Highlands.
“Waiting to start your shift at the local gas station…shame..”
You sure do know a lot about working at gas stations.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
3:06 pm
“you fail to mention the meth labs that are predominately in white communities; I mentioned Phoenix as a counter to an area that is innodated by BLACK crime!!”
You can’t spell.
“You persistently bring up Robert Byrd and the KKK
I brought him up today.Not exactly persistent. And yes, that comment was to make you look hypocritical for supporting a party that employs a guy who hung black people.
“How about the Mormons….who discriminated against black people joining the Boy Scouts in Utah??”
I’m not Mormon. I don’t care what they do. Just like I don’t care if black churches don’t like white people coming in. IE: Obamas church in Chicago.
“but only PRESENT DAY POLITICAL CONSERVATISM continues a racist bent; you have yet to disprove that!!”
Oh yeah I can. I can because you’ve yet to post proof of any racist activities by conservatives.
“How you have lived is a fact, correct??”
Nope
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
3:06 pm
“Yep, low iq here…”
Well at least you admit you’re dumb.
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
3:06 pm
Gotta run, all……have a good day!
Some People are stupid
June 15th, 2010
3:07 pm
Like you said
LOL…whatever you say
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
3:08 pm
“Like you said
LOL…whatever you say”
Nice comeback, Carrot Top.
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
3:10 pm
Oh yeah I can. I can because you’ve yet to post proof of any racist activities by conservatives.
OK — Ronald Reagan stating that he was for segregation in Pliladelphia, MS
Jesse Helm’s racist campaign against Harvey Gantt in North Carolina
John McCain and Ronald Reagan being against the MLK Holiday
Ronald Reagan’s failure to enforce Affirmative Action law and stripping the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department
Trent Lott’s statement to Sttrom Thurmomd on his birthday……
Rand Paul’s statements on his non-support for the Civil Rights Act of 1964…..
There’s always more…..
Gotta make a run….have a good day all…….
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
3:13 pm
HDB`
None of those people hung black people. Your own party has a guy who did.
See you later, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Some People are stupid
June 15th, 2010
3:14 pm
To the guy that said California was bankrupt, isn’t California Republican.
And also, don’t convicted felons lose the right to vote
A CONSERVATIVE
June 15th, 2010
3:14 pm
OBAMA———–” I AM THE ONE-” JAY BOOKMAN—”OBAMA WILL LEAD US TO THE PROMISE LAND—–0F FREE..FREE….FREE….MILK & HONEY for everyone-” ALL OUR WORRIES WILL BE OVER.”—JAY BOOKMAN
A CONSERVATIVE
June 15th, 2010
3:15 pm
JAY——-STILL DRINKING THAT OBAMA KoolAID—–YES
Some People are stupid
June 15th, 2010
3:16 pm
MSNBC=low ratings
“None of those people hung black people. Your own party has a guy who did.”
Then shouldn’t you vote democratic then since you think that all crime is attributed to blacks. You should support someone who hangs black people wouldn’t ya?
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
3:17 pm
“To the guy that said California was bankrupt, isn’t California Republican.”
Controlled by Nancy Pelosi, Henry Waxman, Babera Boxer, Maxine Waters……… Yep, totally controlled by Republicans.
“And also, don’t convicted felons lose the right to vote”
Not according to democrats. Ask Hillary.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
3:17 pm
“You should support someone who hangs black people wouldn’t ya?”
No, I’m not into killing people like you are.
A CONSERVATIVE
June 15th, 2010
3:20 pm
HDB—–AFFIRMITIVE ACTION Isssssss racial profiling…U liberal moron…racial quotas isssssssss racial profiling…u idiot.
A CONSERVATIVE
June 15th, 2010
3:21 pm
LIBERALISM issssssssss a MENTAL DISORDER..YES…YRS..YES….
joe
June 15th, 2010
3:25 pm
HDB, the reason there is so much crime in Phoenix and Tuscon is due to illegal aliens and drug cartels kidnapping US citizens for ransom. So your argument that this “white” area has it own high crime rate is not due to troubled “white” youth, but to ILLEGALS from Mexico. Nice try.
CJ
June 15th, 2010
3:27 pm
Kyle: “…a liberal quoting a liberal quoting a liberal about the greatness of liberalism with its “aversion to dogma” and complete neutrality about “whether the government increases or shrinks in the process” of solving problems, except that — gosh darn it! — increasing government always happens to be the answer. Just a coincidence.”
Always? How Kyle-ish.
You conveniently ignore that I, for example, continually advocate (on this blog) against agricultural subsides, bloated military spending (e.g., spending money on obsolete cold war weaponry), subsides/guarantees for nuclear energy, … — all spending items that so-called conservatives tend to support. In such instances, which side of the political spectrum is for less government and which is for more government?
Contrary to your false projections, liberals are not the mirror image of conservatives view of themselves. Since so-called conservatives claim to be ideologues for smaller government (despite supporting the unprecedented growth of government under Bush/Cheney/Republican rule), then you project that liberals must be ideologues for larger government. It’s your fantasy, but isn’t rooted in fact.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
3:28 pm
“It’s your fantasy, but isn’t rooted in fact.”
Sums you up pretty well.
Some People are stupid
June 15th, 2010
3:34 pm
Last time I checked, Pelosi, Boxer, Waxman were all in the US Congress. They have no say in budgetary issues.
Someone needs to brush up on state and federal legislatures.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
3:37 pm
“Someone needs to brush up on state and federal legislatures.”
Yeah, you.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
3:51 pm
Some People @ 3:34: You’re kidding, right?
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
3:55 pm
CJ: Bush certainly was a big-government Republican, to his great discredit (and that of his party). But unprecedented growth of government? Ever heard of FDR or LBJ?
He may, however, have already been surpassed.
Some People are stupid
June 15th, 2010
3:58 pm
Kyle-
Nope. When was the last time Pelosi sat in on the California Budget and cast a vote…same for Waxman and Boxer. Maybe I should have put State budget.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
4:03 pm
Ah, state budget. OK.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
4:07 pm
“Maybe I should have put State budget.”
Your name sums you up just right!
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
4:08 pm
stupid
California is run by Democrats. They may have a Republican governor but he’s no conservative. He married a Kennedy don’t cha know….
Scooter (the Original)
June 15th, 2010
4:09 pm
Kyle, we have already been misled into a future filled with the politics of medicine, why not the politics of energy usage. Control and manipulation is the name of the game.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
4:09 pm
“Ever heard of FDR or LBJ?”
Uh…..ever heard of Woodrow Wilson?
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
4:12 pm
Al Gore Cheats with Larry David’s Ex
Al Gore’s split from wife Tipper after 40 years of marriage was a shock to everyone who thought theirs was the ideal marriage. Now Star can exclusively reveal that the former Vice President was having an affair with Larry David’s ex-wife — for the past two years!
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
4:15 pm
Uh oh, democrats don’t fair too well according to this “unbiased” NPR poll…
NPR Poll: Congressional Battleground
https://preview.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127834800&live=1
dan
June 15th, 2010
4:21 pm
We need to stop the blame game. Regardless of liberal or conservative position our government has been failing ALL of us for decades (even longer). In order to stay elected both parties have to choose policies on far ends of the spectrum. They are not in the business of governing but the business of getting elected. The problems facing this country are becoming more complex and we are not equipped to handle even a small percentage. All I know is that we have to stop borrowing money to fuel our appetite for everything (personally and nationally). Just think what a great example our own government sets for each one of us. I don’t have any great suggestions on how to solve our dependence on foreign energy. All I can do is fix my own problems and TRY to elect officials that put the future of our country first instead of thinking about how the decision will reflect on their re-election. Just my two sense. Work hard everyone.
Experience matters
June 15th, 2010
4:36 pm
Drop a low-yield nuke and push the button. Problem solved…Russia has done it numerous times and it works!
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
4:44 pm
Linda: I presume your 4:33 wasn’t your own original reporting…please repost with a source, a link and a shorter synopsis. Thanks.
Dave
June 15th, 2010
5:02 pm
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here Kyle. I’ve been reading you for some time and you usually avoid the cheap shots. “Cap and tax” may be a valid description of your view of the cap and trade proposals. You sound like your show biz conservative cousins, Boortz, Beck, Hannity and Limbaugh. Just what does it have to do with your prediction that the President is going to “exploit” the spill tonight in his speech apparently base on the quote “the spill should ’shape how we think about the environment and energy for many years to come….’” Shouldn’t it? Is there a difference between his “exploitation” of the spill to promote his environmental/energy proposals and GWB’s use of 9/11 to facilitate invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq? There was a real natural disaster this year. There were no WMD’s or Iraqi aid of al Qaida (I never remember how to spell that and I’m lazy) at the start of this decade.
You may have a point here; but, I missed it.
Dave
June 15th, 2010
5:07 pm
Sorry about the typos.
Marc
June 15th, 2010
5:12 pm
Well, no one wants to explain why conservatives are so eager to burn now, pay later, so I’ll move on. Kyle, your first point, that it wrecks the economy is too facile. Carbon tariffs can be implemented to take care of the incentive to export jobs and there may well be a ton more jobs in rebuilding a sustainable energy infrastructure that at the same time stems the flood of dollars overseas to pay for oil. Your 2nd point is no more than an objection to the way democracy works. Ironically, the problem is exacerbated by corporate influence in election politics. And your 3rd point, that cap-and-trade doesn’t work isn’t true either. We mitigated acid rain and the ozone hole with cap-and-trade and Europe has actually achieved modest C02 reductions and is on target to reach its Kyoto obligations. Not saying its enough, but its sure better than what we’ve managed to achieve with the screw our kids, drill, baby, drill till the party’s over that conservatives have inexplicably embraced.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
5:46 pm
Marc: Carbon tariffs are a sure-fire way to provoke a trade war and kill whatever recovery is under way. The Europeans, particularly the French, talk tough about this but always back down because they understand the consequences.
“The way democracy works”? I’m pretty cynical, but even I don’t believe that we might as well implement a system that’s rigged from the start because they all end up being rigged. That’s more what I’d call corporatism than democracy.
The comparisons to the SOx cap and trade scheme comes up often, but regulating SOx doesn’t involve a third of the economy. And Europe — whose emissions trading I used to write about — alternates between off track and barely on track. But to the degree that it’s close, it’s mostly because Germany cleaned up the formerly communist East; to a lesser degree, the U.K. deserves credit. Most of the other countries have been on pace to miss their obligations, some by a very wide margin.
DawgDad
June 15th, 2010
6:00 pm
“We mitigated acid rain and the ozone hole with cap-and-trade and Europe has actually achieved modest C02 reductions and is on target to reach its Kyoto obligations.”
Mitigated? Geez, if I stop breathing for 30 seconds I “mitigated” C02 releases. And, what exactly is Kyoto doing for me and my family and my country? Nothing positive, I surmise.
If the Dems cram cap and trade down our throats on top of “health care deform” I predict the backlash will get very very very very ugly. We are already a pseudo-fascist statist country; I don’t think the productive people will put up with much more. If they do cap and trade you’ll see a run on retirement funds (401Ks, etc.), because those will eventually be devalued to worthless or outright absconded by the politicians.
Jay
June 15th, 2010
9:08 pm
Obama was born in America but grew up in a broken home out in Kenya. He never was given love so he has no love. His time in America has been mostly spent with liberal elitists so he has no love for Mr. and Mrs. American (Democrat or Republican). Barry is destroying our country!
mark
June 16th, 2010
3:18 am
i can’ believe how stupid you tree hugging morons are. “OIL is GOOD”
say it loud, say it often you stupid slugs. stop living in your utopia
and come up for air. if we did away with petroleum products. cars, coal burning electric plants, nuclear etc. and you had to cut down your trees to keep the fire going just to stay warm, and harvest hay to feed your horse so you could get to work, you would all be crying “drill baby drill” AND THATS WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING. but not in the outer shelf, up close to the beach where it’s not so deep, where we can see the rig, here the rig, and smell the rig. thats what im talking about. THERES PLENTY OF TIME TO HARVEST THE OIL IN THE OUTER SHELF LATER. DRILL BABY DRILL. and lets build nuclear, wind power, solar, im for everything, “ALL” kinds of energy. but to those of you that think oil is bad, PLEASE go now buy your horse, the sooner the better,cut down your favorite tree winters coming, we’ll see you in a couple months when you wake up. And believe me you will WAKE UP…..
alison huskie
June 16th, 2010
5:09 am
Did Obama mention geothermal energy in his talk last night?? When is he going to back alternative energy 100%????!!!! I am tired of these politicians backing “oil!!” We all know the power the oil industry has, but until someone “STANDS UP” and endorses alternative energy – we are stuck in an archaic system!
Marc
June 16th, 2010
9:23 am
Kyle, it’s too easy to point to potential problems and make absolute pronouncements that a cap-and-trade scheme can’t work. The European system may not be perfect, but they’re learning from their mistakes and getting results. We can’t do that too? Point out the pitfalls by all means, but unless you suggest solutions, you’re just providing entertainment. Nothing wrong with a little entertainment, but it doesn’t solve anything. Do you have anything to offer besides the status quo?
emenot
June 21st, 2010
8:16 pm
Bam Bam purposefully held off in the name of letting BP fix the spill. What Bam Bam is really doing is theoretically a win win conundrum for his purpose, if he jumped in at the beginning it would not serve him because if BP happens to be able to fix it, BP would take all the credit, whereas if he let it dragged on Bam Bam could come in for photo op as he had been doing and do his usually lip service with no resolved as he really don’t have any hope to fix the leak anyways and blame BP for failure to mend their evil deeds! However if by his luck the leak was fix after it had been 8 weeks, he can take full credit because of his timely interdiction.
Energy policy on the ObamaCare model | Kyle Wingfield
July 12th, 2010
10:30 am
[...] Obama has decided that the Gulf oil spill means we need to change the way we power our entire country, not just the [...]