Obama tries to (cap and) trade on the oil spill
After eight weeks, President Obama has decided he needs to stop letting our crisis in the Gulf of Mexico go unexploited. In an Oval Office address tonight, he’ll explain why, as he recently told Politico’s Roger Simon, the spill should “shape how we think about the environment and energy for many years to come” — just as our perspective on foreign affairs was “profoundly … indelibly” changed by 9/11.
Oh, so within eight years our government will be studiously avoiding the word “oil” and referring to “pipeline-caused disasters”? Maybe a future president will make speeches about how oil barons helped pave the way for the European Renaissance.
Nah, probably not.
Obama reportedly hopes the spill will reinvigorate efforts in Congress to pass a cap-and-tax bill. The Gulf oil spill is a tragedy, but it doesn’t change the basic calculus about cap-and-tax — namely that, among other things, it:
1. reduces, not increases, employment by giving companies an incentive to move production to countries without caps on carbon dioxide emissions;
2. represents an enormous opportunity for politicians to game the system by favoring certain industries over others (and certain firms over their competitors — would Toyota really get the same terms as Government, er, General Motors?) in the allowances granted and the initial prices charged for those allowances; and
3. has worked poorly where it’s been tried (for carbon dioxide) so far, most notably in Europe.
Those things were true last summer, when the cap-and-tax bill passed by the House was considered dead on arrival in the Senate. They’re still true now.
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183 comments Add your comment
LibraryJim
June 15th, 2010
11:21 am
Road,
the title of the 2006 documentary is “Who Killed the Electric Car?”.
riff
June 15th, 2010
11:22 am
Not only does the assembly of electric cars require butt loads of energy and oil dependent machinery, but isn’t a car running on electricity just as bad and hypocritical?
LibraryJim
June 15th, 2010
11:22 am
Road, what CAN they do about it? They are in a minority in both houses. Sometimes it takes a kick in the pants to get someone moving on something. Like loss of (squandered) power.
Road Scholar
June 15th, 2010
11:25 am
Kyle: I guess we need to go to work to find out what Germany has done recently, huh? Everytime an alternate comes along, the price of oil dips.Interesting? Coincidence? My BP has regular at 2.499/gal.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
11:27 am
And where does the electricity for those electric cars come from, Road? For now and the foreseeable future, it’s going to be coal.
And who ends up being the biggest beneficiary from the installation of wind and solar? The people who sell the natural gas that powers the turbines when the wind isn’t blowing and the sun isn’t shining.
How much territory would have to be covered by wind turbines or solar panels to match the energy output we get from coal? How many humans animals and ecosystems would that affect?
Life is about tradeoffs. The apparent idea that all of the negative consequences come from oil is extremely myopic.
LibraryJim
June 15th, 2010
11:28 am
riff, the creation of tone battery for the Prius pollutes just as badly as all the cars running in North America for a year.
as one website points out:
“The Prius’ battery contains nickel [and rare earth metals such as dysprosium and neodymium], which is mined in Ontario Canada. The plant that smelts this nickel is apparently nicknamed “the Superstack” because of the amount of pollution it puts out; the area for miles around it is a wasteland because of acid rain and air pollution.
That smelted nickel then has to travel (via container ship) to Europe to be refined, then to China to be made into “nickel foam,” then to Japan for assembly, and finally to the United States. All this shipment for each tiny step in the production process costs a great deal, both in dollars and in pollution.”
Road Scholar
June 15th, 2010
11:29 am
Library Jim: Thanks for the correction.
While the Repubs are a minority in both houses, the more moderates (both parties) could form a coalition (remember how it used to be) to define, negotiate and write GOOD legislation that will benefit this country, not one political party. Why not? Isn’t this why they were elected?
LibraryJim
June 15th, 2010
11:29 am
correction:
“the creation of ONE battery” not ‘tone’.
LibraryJim
June 15th, 2010
11:31 am
I am not against a coalition. (COALition???) and yes, that is why they were elected. However, Pelosi and Reid seem diametrically opposed to hearing any ideas to the contrary of what they want proposed, and continually shut out alternative voices from either party.
Obama the one term dumb @ss
June 15th, 2010
11:43 am
Well, he securing a huge defeat for the DNCC and his place in history as the worst idiot in the White House since Carter.
Kanye West
June 15th, 2010
11:45 am
Obama hate sea turtles. He don’t care bout dem birds neither. Buy my new album: The GED.
Rev. Al Sharptongue hates whitey
June 15th, 2010
11:46 am
Why does Rev. Shatongue hate white people so much?
Rev. Al Sharptongue hates whitey
June 15th, 2010
11:50 am
“So, other than oil, and bitching about nuclear, what have they done about it, other than stopping Obama?”
The GOP hasn’t been in power since 2006.
Bobby Jindal tells Obama to EFF off
June 15th, 2010
12:00 pm
Gov. Bobby Jindal Orders National Guard to Build Barrier Wall Off Louisiana Shore
Eight weeks into the oil spill disaster in the Gulf of the Mexico, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal has told the National Guard that there’s no time left to wait for BP, so they’re taking matters into their own hands.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/article/bp-oil-spill-gov-bobby-jindal-orders-national/story?id=10914348
CJ
June 15th, 2010
12:00 pm
Kyle @11:07,
You’re projecting. For more information about the history of not letting a crisis go to waste and which side of the political spectrum has successfully implemented such a tactic, consider reading “The Shock Doctrine” by Naomi Klein: http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine
And for the record, your statement that others are promoting the idea that “all of the negative consequences come from oil” is a another straw man. If you replace the word “all” with “more”, then your false inference will be within range of the truth.
JackLeg
June 15th, 2010
12:02 pm
Marc, I want your connection for the chronic, if you want to give Owl Gore money feel free to but I don’t want to give money to a loser so he can heat his house, which uses 15 times the energy of an average house, and fly around on his plane which produces more carbon than a small town, so he can give a speech. For an alternative look at George Bush’s house, all green energy and uses 1/25 the powers of a conventional construction, all without giving Owl Gore one dime. So look at the FACTS, who is the conservative here?
Bob Loblaw
June 15th, 2010
12:03 pm
“Naomi Klein”
Oh wow, so we’re supposed to believe an Obama cult follower?
“another straw man.”
Oh you mean like you and other democrat voters who always shout “Haliburton Haliburton Haliburton!”
Liberals=liars and convicted felons
June 15th, 2010
12:05 pm
If Al Gore is so great, why does he do the opposite of what he tells other people to do?
Obama dumbo ears
June 15th, 2010
12:05 pm
That dude can catch flight with them things
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:06 pm
This morning on Morning Joe, a NY Times journalist said that Obama is learning on the job. That’s interesting because left wing idiots said that Sarah Palin had no experience leading….
Obama=one term
Greg
June 15th, 2010
12:06 pm
Just because Gore has made a massive fortune off his fear mongering, junk science using, Global Warming scheme doesn’t make him a hypocrite.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:07 pm
Good idea: Let’s take all the environmentalists like Al Gore and shove them all in the oil hole. Their inflated egos should be able to stop the oil leak.
We’d kill two birds with one stone.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:08 pm
“Global Warming scheme doesn’t make him a hypocrite.”
It does and it also makes him a complete loser. The guy has and never will get over the fact that he lost to W in 2000.
kearns
June 15th, 2010
12:09 pm
I wonder how much BP regrets backing the Messiah during his campaign….
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:13 pm
“I wonder how much BP regrets backing the Messiah during his campaign….”
A lot.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
12:15 pm
Typical CJ, trying to deflect from the White House’s own words by citing someone who said somebody else did the same thing.
And if you’ll offer the first acknowledgment on here by an oil critic of the problems associated with energy sources other than oil, I’ll be happy to use “most” or “more” next time.
Rev Al DickLick
June 15th, 2010
12:16 pm
Good job Kyle.
You do your homework unlike that insultingly ignorant emotionally scarred left nut Sindy Sucker.
Keep on thwarting these goober’s fiction with facts. Left nuts don’t seem to have an economic bone in their body, though Rev Al Sharptongue does like a big hard one in his mouth.
Actually, if we could cut off oil for awhile just to watch these chicken little cry babies starve to death and shut up, it would be a worthwhile trade-off.
And keep in mind, geo-thermal is potentially a practical mass energy solution.
CJ
June 15th, 2010
12:18 pm
Sorry Kyle, I missed your 11:03.
As you know, the doc fix is independent legislation that existed well before the Affordable Care Act (when Republican-led Congresses passed it) and would have been necessary without the Affordable Care Act. Your dishonest conflating of the cost of the doc fix with the health care reform legislation makes no more sense than conflating this expense with the cost of agricultural subsidies (i.e., welfare for millionaires).
And yes, both the left and right are in favor of rigging the system as long as we like the beneficiaries (e.g., financial institutions, big oil, big pharma, military industrial complex, military industrial complex, agricultural subsidies,…). The difference is that the left primarily seeks to rig the system to preserve the environment, reduce poverty, and grow the middle class, while the right seeks to enrich the rich.
CJ
June 15th, 2010
12:23 pm
“…if you’ll offer the first acknowledgment on here by an oil critic of the problems associated with energy sources other than oil, I’ll be happy to use “most” or “more” next time.”
I think I just did. But for your edification, yes, clean energy sources are not without problems—they just pale in comparison to those associated with fossil fuels.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:24 pm
CJ
Go ahead and blame Halliburton and Bush for all of Obama’s stupidity. It’s fun to watch you left wingers implode.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:25 pm
CJ
Al Gore has billions of dollars. In all of these years scamming people, why does he not use “clean energy” to get around?
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
12:26 pm
CJ, your 12:18 is the most quintessentially CJ-ish post of all time: Blame me for the way the Democrats sold their own bill.
And that second paragraph? How could I say more about its pure, blindly partisan nature — its CJ-ness — than it says about itself?
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:28 pm
CJ
Obama was given more money by BP than ANY other politician. You left wingers seem to think that democrats are saints. You and other left wingers rant and rail on “rich people” yet most democrat senators are rich people.
Rich Democrats:
Al Gore, Barak Obama, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, John F. Kerry, Henry Waxman, Harry Reid, Maxine Waters, Barbera Boxer, Ben Nelson, Dick Durbin, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Hollywood…………………..
But, in your simple mind, only republicans are rich.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:29 pm
“Blame me for the way the Democrats sold their own bill.”
Democrats and democrat voters blame everyone else for their own stupid mistakes. It’s the only thing they know how to do.
HDB`
June 15th, 2010
12:42 pm
MSNBC=low ratings June 15th, 2010
12:29 pm
You forgot something…….
…from Reuters:
Donations come from a mix of employees and the company’s political action committees – $2.89 million flowed to campaigns from BP-related PACs and about $638,000 came from individuals.
The top congressional recipients of BP campaign cash include Republican Rep. Don Young of the oil-intensive Alaska delegation, who has received almost as much as Obama, raking in $73,300 during his congressional tenure. Also on the list is Sen. George Voinovich (R-Ohio), whose state has a BP refinery in Toledo and who has raked in $41,400. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has received $44,899.
Soames
June 15th, 2010
12:43 pm
CJ – All of this talk about growing the middle class is pure gibberish.
Kyle Wingfield
June 15th, 2010
12:48 pm
Last thing I’ll say about the doc fix and ObamaCare: Start reading at the bottom of page 13 of this PDF, the CBO’s final cost estimate for the bill: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11379/AmendReconProp.pdf
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:49 pm
HDB`
Obama is the president of the USA. Not Mccain, Not Young. Obama is the one pointing and blaming BP for everything even though he gave them a top award for safety.
People like you can’t handle the fact that Obama is a colossal hypocrite. Obama is THE biggest recipient of BP cash.
Oh, and I noticed your comments over on the race hustlers page and how under Obama a black man can get a job. If a black man can’t get a job unless a black president is in office, then said black man is either an idiot or a liar.
People like you play the race card because you can’t argue facts.
CJ
June 15th, 2010
12:50 pm
Soames,
With a little research, you might find how many people were added to the middle class during the Clinton administration. Compare that with how many were added to the middle class under Bush. In fact, research these numbers since the turn of the 20th century, and I suspect, you might not like what you find.
While you’re at it. explore how many have been added to the middle class since Lula (Worker Party) replaced a right-wing president in Brazil in the early part of this decade (about 20 million is the figure I’ve heard).
If you want to grow the middle class, vote for a Democrat (preferably a liberal one).
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:52 pm
HDB`
Also, if democrats are champions of black people then why are black populated areas all poor and high in crime?
The perfect examples of this is the south side of Chicago. Obama’s playground. 23% unemployment and the highest crime rate in the entire country. Chicago is a democrat city and has been for over 30 years. If democrats help black people then why are black people still poor in democrat controlled areas?
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:55 pm
“With a little research, you might find how many people were added to the middle class during the Clinton administration.”
Ever heard of Reagan? He took the Carter disaster and turned it around.
“Compare that with how many were added to the middle class under Bush.”
Unemployment was 4.4% under Bush. Lower than it was under Clinton.
“explore how many have been added to the middle class since Lula (Worker Party) replaced a right-wing president in Brazil in the early part of this decade (about 20 million is the figure I’ve heard).”
Not sure what that has to do with America.
“If you want to grow the middle class, vote for a Democrat (preferably a liberal one).”
Yeah, you’ll get 10% unemployment and companies moving jobs overseas……..
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
12:55 pm
“If you want to grow the middle class, vote for a Democrat (preferably a liberal one).”
Please provide documented evidence where the middle class grew under a liberal Democrat.
CJ
June 15th, 2010
1:01 pm
“Please provide documented evidence where the middle class grew under a liberal Democrat.”
http://www.google.com/
You can start with FDR.
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
1:04 pm
“You can start with FDR.”
LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!! You can’t even provide evidence of your asinine claim! When a person makes a claim and then can’t back it up, it proves that the person is a) a moron, b) unintelligent and c) a liar.
FDR never did anything but prolong the depression. If it weren’t for WW2 the depression would have gone on for 10+ years.
Funny how you have to go back that far in American history to find a Democrat………
By the way, SS is going broke as is Medicare……
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
1:06 pm
CJ
Just curious, in what field do you hold a degree in? The reason I ask is because no intelligent college grad would ever answer a question about his/her claim by posting a broad answer such as google.
If one makes a claim, one can back that claim up with facts.
You ma’am have done nothing but made a baseless claim….
NOW BACK IT UP!
CJ
June 15th, 2010
1:15 pm
Speaking of the doc fix, here’s a link Obama’s Weekly Address hitting on that very subject last Saturday.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/weekly-address
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
1:17 pm
CJ
Obama said he was going to be a transparent president. He lied. Obama said that the stimulus package would bring unemployment down. He lied. Obama said Health Care costs would go down. He lied. Obama said he was in the Gulf from day one. He lied. Obama said that he would close Gitmo. He lied. Obama said he was going to end the war in Iraq. He lied.
Notice there’s a pattern with the president.
Shane
June 15th, 2010
1:35 pm
“Just curious, in what field do you hold a degree in? The reason I ask is because no intelligent college grad would ever answer a question about his/her claim by posting a broad answer such as google.
If one makes a claim, one can back that claim up with facts.”
They might be thinking that you’d be smart enough to find it yourself instead of doing all the work, just to listen to you try to refute it.
commoncents
June 15th, 2010
1:42 pm
“Notice there’s a pattern with the president.”
Not just the president, because he couldn’t have done all that on his own
MSNBC=low ratings
June 15th, 2010
1:45 pm
“They might be thinking that you’d be smart enough to find it yourself instead of doing all the work, just to listen to you try to refute it.”
No, it means that CJ is either lying or he’s too lazy to find his own evidence. If you care to look at the above CJ comments, you’d see that CJ makes a lot of false claims.