Special series: A lesson on frugality for MARTA from out West
(Note: This concludes a special series examining MARTA. Read Part 1 here, Part 2 here or Part 3 here.)
MARTA says it needs another $50 million a year to survive. It can find half of it out West.
I’m talking about places like Phoenix, Las Vegas, Honolulu, San Diego and Denver — places that have significantly cut their transit operating costs by contracting out bus services.
Those first three cities have outsourced their entire bus service. These outfits are still funded with the traditional transit model, with a mix mostly of taxpayer funds and passenger fares, but they are not run by in-house employees. Private firms do the work.
The results are impressive. Honolulu in 2008 was able to provide 41 percent more bus service than MARTA at about three-quarters of the total cost. Its operating cost per passenger mile was just 51 cents vs. MARTA’s 93 cents.
In Las Vegas it was 57 cents; in Phoenix, 80 cents.
In all, 11 of the nation’s 50 largest public bus systems contracted out at least 10 percent of their bus service in 2008. All 11 have cheaper operating costs per passenger mile than MARTA’s bus operation does.
MARTA’s bus service isn’t uncompetitive only when compared with privatized services. The vast majority of the top 20 don’t contract out any bus service, and yet most have lower costs than MARTA does.
The most marked contrast, however, is with the 11 that do use outside operators. As a group, they have privatized just over half their bus service, at a per-mile savings of 39 percent compared with MARTA.
Including the bus service they do run in-house, these agencies are collectively 30 percent less costly than MARTA.
The private model applied to MARTA
What if MARTA were to privatize about half its service, and in doing so achieved similar savings? It could increase bus service by one-eighth over 2008 levels while holding expenses steady; cut bus costs by a ninth while providing the same amount of service; or settle on some combination of new service and lower costs.
Cutting bus costs by a ninth from 2008 levels would save MARTA $22 million a year. Privatize all bus service, and MARTA might save as much as $43 million annually.
So, why haven’t more transit systems embraced contracting?
“Too often the mission of public transportation providers has been to grow and protect the transit organization as opposed to maximizing the product we provide,” said Cal Marsella, then-CEO of Denver’s transit authority, in a 2008 interview with the Reason Foundation.
“The organization is not the thing. Mobility is what people vote for and expect.”
Along the same lines, he noted, “The first answer to improved quantities of quality mobility service is not always the provision of more … money but rather looking inward to existing operations to determine if more cost-effective means are available …”
That point resonates for metro Atlanta in two ways. As policymakers prepare to ask citizens to approve a new penny sales tax to fund new transportation infrastructure, they must assure us that all options, including transit, will be as cost-effective as possible.
The second way relates specifically to MARTA. Whether or not MARTA enters a holding pattern in terms of growth, it will be crucial for MARTA to make all its operations as lean as possible.
Transportation in our region is much too important to do anything else.
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88 comments Add your comment
Tiger Woods + Jesse James = SuperBAD meets SuperEVIL in "SuperUGLY!"
May 19th, 2010
7:14 pm
“MARTA says it needs another $50 million a year to survive.”
MARTA could start by raising its own fares from $2.00-a-trip to something of a level that would actually help to serve a city of six million, that and not “mismanage” the funds into one’s own personal luxury car, restaurant budget, entertainment budget, etc. Though with the City of Atlanta, Fulton County, DeKalb County and the State of Georgia as fine examples to model and pattern themselves after, one can see why MARTA has had repeated problems with sticky fingers over the years. One can look no farther than the fiscally-sound Georgia Department of Transportation and their exceptional management by the State of Georgia to see why getting around has become such an issue in these parts.
Tiger Woods + Jesse James = SuperBAD meets SuperEVIL in "SuperUGLY!"
May 19th, 2010
7:15 pm
Oh yeah, first or whatever…
Michael H. Smith
May 19th, 2010
8:54 pm
Privatize MARTA?
Kyle, the better approach is to start fresh with the statewide private public transit entity I’ve discussed previously – No bad brand name, no bad board members, no bad management, no bad union and no bad debt to absorb.
MARTA can fulfill its end of life plans alone.
Transportation Now...
May 19th, 2010
9:46 pm
Well Kyle…As a taxpayer in Fulton county, I’m not okay w/ turning over public assets to a private firm. Lets think Grady…
Ace
May 19th, 2010
10:14 pm
So, who loses their jobs or get their pay slashed when the work is outsourced. Will the new drivers ve Mexican drivers?
JBM
May 19th, 2010
10:28 pm
I offered this option to MARTA some two years ago with some of their Para transit operations. Para transit is often the back breaker in many public transit systems. MARTA para transit is published at a $40 per trip with a $3.50 fare. I told them that I or any one else could provide the same service for half of that cost. Needless to say I never got anywhere with MARTA.
When I approached them again, they now tell me they don’t even have the money to pay a private contractor. MARTA has not prepared for this day in any way. With the old para transit buse they used to leave them running during an operators entire shift because they were afraid they would not start again if they shut them off. When they got their new vehicles they continued to follow the same practice.
Taxpayer
May 19th, 2010
10:51 pm
The AJC has determined that it can cut its political commentary costs by 50% by outsourcing. See how easy that is. I also heard a rumor that if we were to cut CEO pay at all major corporations, we could offer lower cost products to the masses and even hire thousands of additional people at those companies without spending an extra dime. Cool, huh.
itpdude
May 19th, 2010
11:35 pm
ha ha ha, I like Taxpayer’s point.
Is privatization of MARTA the way to go? If we were to privatize, it would HAVE to be with the buses because they are the only part of MARTA that actually pays for itself per ride. Those train rides (that, ironically, are the most popular part of MARTA with whites) are subsidized. Buses (which, ironically, are the blackest part of the system) are the least subsidized.
Personally, I don’t think privatization is the answer to all things. We had a water privatization in Atlanta years ago and it worked for crap. The gas privatization hasn’t been that great a shakes.
But garbage privatization in Atlanta would work, yet we don’t do it. Hrmph.
I say if MARTA is privatized, I want the big roads privatized. At every on-ramp, a toll of $2.00.
Short of that, MARTA really should come under state control and the state ought put public transit in every inner metro county and extend bus services to those areas that need it all across the state. And to those who call that welfare, stop driving on your welfare roads, using the welfare postal service, receiving welfare police and fire protection, etc.
In other words, get real.
Cutty
May 19th, 2010
11:39 pm
Privatize GDOT!!!
zeke
May 20th, 2010
12:07 am
FIRE THE UNIONS! RAISE FARES TO A LEVEL THAT WILL COMPLETELY FUND OPERATIONS! INCREASE SECURITY 10 FOLD AT STATIONS, PARKING LOTS AND ON TRAINS! SELL IT TO PRIVATE INVESTORS(SAME FOR HARTSFIELD) OR SHUT IT DOWN!
fred smith
May 20th, 2010
7:54 am
Actually, I was thinking Halliburton – -
You psuedoconservatives keep saying privatization of everything and anything is the answer to all ills – and conveniently cite data that work for you and ignore (or hide) those that don’t. Take a look at the real costs of what the state has done in the last eight years. It ain’t pretty. And it’s enormously more expensive. On the other hand, the attempt to put all state IT under one civil service roof was an even worse boondoggle. What the heck. We’re going the way of Rome anyway, might as well try it. Fiddle away.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 20th, 2010
8:01 am
Well, every month I look at my natural gas bill and thank the Lord natural gas was privatized here in GA. The Lord only knows how high it would of been if the state hadn’t of privatized it.
So I think old Kyle done hit upon something here. We can operate MARTA the way businesses operate. The minute it starts loosing any money, we just dump the passengers out into the street and file for bankruptcy and walk away with our Golden Parachutes. Or maybe we can just raise the fare to 100 bucks each way and when people quit riding we can say MARTA wasn’t wanted so it’s time to fold it up.
So keep it up, young fellow. We need more Great Thinkers like you in this state. About time the librul AJC hired somebody that thinks Right.
Jeff Fryer
May 20th, 2010
8:01 am
Marta should raise the fares for the average ridership personages who not only are free to blog while they ride, they also get to enjoy the splendor and majesty of the rich, Corinthian leather seats, not to mention the sweet aroma coming from the other passengers. Talk about farfegnugen!
Even if fares are doubled, Marta still represents a fine value
Morrus
May 20th, 2010
8:54 am
Curiously, in a supposed anti-incumbent year, most of the departing are not retiring but seeking higher office. We may recycle more than we replace. The bad news is that a frustrating 114 seats still have but one contestant. Two of them aren’t even incumbents, meaning they will affect state policy without being vetted by voters. And I have to think that we’d be better off if many had run instead for the Legislature — and cut down on the number running unopposed. Georgia’s problems are numerous. They aren’t going away. There’s too much stale thinking at the Capitol, on both sides of the aisle. New voices would be welcome.
Horrible Horrace
May 20th, 2010
9:00 am
$50 million a year or $500 million a year would make no difference. From top to bottom marta is ensconced in stupidity and ineptness.
Disgusted
May 20th, 2010
9:01 am
Hey, Morrus: Get some new material. You’ve published this same post in about a dozen blogs for a week. If you don’t like the current candidates, file to get put on the ballot. I’d vote for you just to be rid of reading this stuff.
Base
May 20th, 2010
9:19 am
The simple solution for you neophytes is to privatize. It is a short term solution for a long term problem.This is a puff piece at best.
Steve
May 20th, 2010
9:21 am
People need to realize this is PUBLIC transportation, it will not make a profit. If the overcrowded MTA in NYC cant make a profit, marta never will either. And for all the folks that keep saying raise the fares to $3-5 to offset, keep in mind public transit is supposed to be a cost effective alternative to owning a car, so its clear the people who keep saying jack up the fares clearly dont ride marta at all. I personally wouldnt pay that much to ride. It would make no sense to spend $6-10 round trip on marta when you can drive for less round trip in gas. I pay $5 round trip for Grta, but thats a clean, beggar free, cryin baby free, wanna be rapper free, over hearing other folks loud walkman and vulgarity free ride.
Horrible Horrace
May 20th, 2010
9:22 am
Agreed Base. The only real and truthful solution is to dismantle Marta.
DirtyDawg
May 20th, 2010
9:32 am
Oh yeah, let’s give Corporate America yet another place for them to attach their ‘blood-sucking’, hypostomes (look it up) into the public treasury. Just remember the Republican motto – ‘The only role of Government is to fund businesses…the only good labor is cheaper labor…and ’shareholder value’ above all else – so long as I’m the shareholder.’
Don
May 20th, 2010
9:34 am
Kyle – Bingo! Except for one thing. The problem with contracting out is the contractor’s only manner of increasing his profit is by cutting costs (and corners!). Service suffers. I can provide many examples of this behavior by Veolia, GCT’s bus contractor. They seem to do the bare minimum they have to to hang on to the contract.
Instead of just contracting out the operations, contract out the whole deal. Contractor gets a slice of the revenue pie, too. Maybe all of it. That gives him a profit motive as good service = increased revenue. The bid would be based on who needs the least money to run the whole show. The subsidy raise the floor, so to speak, so that the operation becomes a “for profit” venture for the contractor.
Either that, or you have to bake all kinds of performance measures with incentives into the contract – and actually follow through on them. Hard to do….
Dave
May 20th, 2010
9:54 am
Your proposal may be viable. Anecdotally, there are two or three private bus companies operating along Buford Highway that I assume are making money as they continue to operate. They do have the advantage of high demand given their clientele’s low income average and they aren’t paying union wages. Then too, looking at those advantages, they are able to “cherry pick” the best conditions so as to be profitable, something a public entity can’t do.
What you seem to be saying, without saying it, is that MARTA as a public entity or a contracted private or private/public service needs to cut costs. The obvious targets, from prior installments, are labor and administration.
Your next assignment is a series analyzing the bloat to be found within MARTA available to be eliminated.
Junior Samples
May 20th, 2010
10:13 am
Kyle,
Do you ride MARTA every day to work? Just curious.
Tammi
May 20th, 2010
10:14 am
If we would keep people in pathetic misery for generation after generation, just convince them that business is evil.
Dave
May 20th, 2010
10:15 am
And after my last comment: the “liberal” side of me. $80,000 bus driver salaries seem pretty healthy to me; but, are you suggesting that MARTA has to be “Walmartized?” Is public transportation the next target for eliminating well-paid blue collar workers? They are a thing of the past in retail and about gone in industry. Government employees are one of the last hold outs. Just sayin’.
I like the effects of Walmartization on my current costs. I’m not sure I’m going to like the long term effects on other social costs like health care, retirement income and so on. But that’s yet another series for you.
Horrible Horrace
May 20th, 2010
10:30 am
Dismantling Marta is the only answer.
Marta will never make a profit.
Marta will always have their hand out.
Marta will always be inefficient and inept at everything.
Marta is a fine example of a financial bottomless pit and chock full of stupid and inept employees, from top to bottom.
Tea Party Meber
May 20th, 2010
10:36 am
Stop rasin my taxes to pay for this!
Jeff Fryer
May 20th, 2010
10:52 am
Raisin taxes? The sin o’ men?
Kyle Wingfield
May 20th, 2010
10:56 am
JBM: I agree that paratransit (aka Marta Mobility) is an excellent candidate for outsourcing. Or, if the numbers add up (I haven’t run those), why not just give taxicab vouchers to the people who use that service?
Taxpayer: Actually, the AJC and every other major newspaper does outsource well over half of our political commentary — in the form of guest op-eds and syndicated columnists. It’s a way to add perspectives, expertise and variety, and presumably is much more effective, in cost and otherwise, than trying to do everything in-house. And note that I didn’t suggest privatizing the entire agency, although I think every such opportunity should be considered and judged on the merits.
But I digress…are you saying that you are satisfied with what you get from MARTA as a taxpayer, given that so many other bus systems do more with less? Do you think MARTA users — and yes, Junior Samples, I do take MARTA to work the vast majority of the time — should be satisfied?
Kyle Wingfield
May 20th, 2010
11:00 am
fred smith: You’re right; not every privatization works or makes sense. Now, care to comment on this one?
Steve: If I agree that MARTA shouldn’t turn a profit (if it did, it should reduce the amount of subsidies received), can you agree that it shouldn’t lose money year in and year out?
Don: You are right, a successful privatization depends completely on the contract. Fortunately, there are a number of cities that have done it right which could give MARTA advice.
JZ
May 20th, 2010
11:17 am
How you write this article and not even mention the outrageous union wages paid by MARTA? That is the difference with private providers.
MARTA has become a pure bureaucracy, more concerned about it presrvation as an organization than the service it provides.
Jefferson
May 20th, 2010
11:23 am
Natural gas prices in MN are half of what we pay in GA, Industry gets the breaks not private homeowners since deregulation.
DJ
May 20th, 2010
11:23 am
What is the ratio of office employees to driver/operators for MARTA versus other systems? What is the ratio of maintenance workers to driver/operators versus other systems? Lets focus on the systemic issues, fix them then see what fare structure makes the system break even.
Hindu Elvis Pimp
May 20th, 2010
11:36 am
I didn’t read this, but I still must be critical!
Horrible Horrace
May 20th, 2010
12:01 pm
Marta should be dismantled…bolt by bolt, nut by nut.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
May 20th, 2010
12:37 pm
@ Horrible Horrace
What should MARTA be replaced with then?
The problem is that there is no much politics and racism when it comes to funding and expanding MARTA to make it a true METROPOLITAN transit system. MARTA’s primary source of funding (1% sales tax) isn’t generating the money it use too bottom line. There needs to be a sourse of funding that doesn’t inflate and deflate based on the economy. If Clayton, Cobb, and Gwinett would have join from the beginning there probably wouldn’t be this type of crunch with MARTA. Plus there would be better bus service in those counties along with rail service! Buses don’t even run on Sunday in those counties or Saturday for that matter in Gwinett except for route #10, which ironically is the main route used to connect with MARTA. We all know what happened in Clayton… nothing there which is absolutely insane. If we get ride of the racism and the thought that transit brings crime then we could move forward as a region and have excellent transit and would definitely help with traffic. Even if a person wasn’t a fan of the bus, the rail would be appealing way to get around. If the main 5 counties were on board from jumpstreet we could have rail all the way up I-75 to Kennesaw, up I-85 to Gwinnett Place, and into Clayton to Jonesboro and through Riverdale! We could extend rail to Lithonia and the Fulton Industrial Blvd. We could have new rail lines to Hapeville and Atlantic Station and to Emory Univ. Even have service that just doesn’t go downtown. Maybe a rail line from Cumberland Mall area to the Doraville area along I-285. That would be a great rail system.
http://world.nycsubway.org/us/atlanta/marta-provisions.html
You can see where MARTA to this day still has the ground work to extend the rail service laid out but because there is no funding, no support, and racism involved we can’t have a great rail system as I’ve described. We can’t have an extensive local bus system to areas that don’t have buses now because there are no major rail stations. That means more traffic and a worse quality of life. That also means more companies leaving the area and more not wanting to relocate here.
When we stop looking at the mistake here and there that MARTA may have made and look at all the great things MARTA has done then MARTA can be a great system.
Base
May 20th, 2010
12:39 pm
The reason the state doesn’t want it is because of the union contracts.
Churchill's MOM
May 20th, 2010
12:57 pm
Wing boy, you have done a good job on this, congradulations.
Howmany bus drivers does MARTA pay over $75,000 per year?
Churchill's MOM
May 20th, 2010
1:00 pm
Bryan — MARTA supporter 12:37 pm
Is it racism to not support a system as poorly run as MARTA?
Bacchus
May 20th, 2010
1:01 pm
Privatization would mean the end of BoD perks like trips to Vegas and it would relieve the agency of union labor rates and bureaucratic inefficiencies, thus lowering costs. But of course it would inevitably be racially spun– because this is Atlanta. Privatization would then allegedly mean minorities (or the majority, depending on where you’re looking) would be marginalized off the buses and trains while the system is reprogrammed to serve “rich” folks going to the airport or ballgames.
No politician will sacrifice union votes or the minority vote to privatize Marta. That’s the proverbial Third Rail.
Jeff Fryer
May 20th, 2010
1:06 pm
I can’t wait to read Marta’s response to Kyles thoughtful, comprehensive and done-right analysis in which he’s tied down most if not all of the problems plaguing Atlanta Bus and Rail. I wonder if they’ll go full Snidley Whiplash on his ass?
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
May 20th, 2010
1:15 pm
@ Churchill’s MOM
http://www.itsmarta.com/martamatters/index.aspx
The facts are there. MARTA by far is actually a very well run system. Especially for a sytem that doesn’t even have state support or the support of an entire region.
It IS racism to not want a rail service because you feel that Blacks will come and make the area bad. Oh you don’t know what MARTA stands for… Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta. What about the demise of C-Tran and then not wanting MARTA in the county because they feel that if they have transit it will look desirable to low income Blacks that are being displaced from the housing projects being torn down. If that isn’t racism then what is?
Churchill's MOM
May 20th, 2010
1:43 pm
Bryan — MARTA supporter 1:15 pm
Ok, I’ll bite, How is the Clayton County Commission raceist if it ends C Tran because they were not getting value for their spending?
Churchill's MOM
May 20th, 2010
1:45 pm
that is …racist.
Kyle Wingfield
May 20th, 2010
2:03 pm
Not to mention that Clayton County and its Board of Commissioners are both majority-black.
Jess
May 20th, 2010
2:14 pm
It’s fairly clear from the posts here that many think MARTA is basically an entitlement program. As long as the city sees MARTA as a jobs program, and many of the users see it as an entitlement, it is going to be very difficult to get anyone in power to do anything other than beg for more funding. Atlanta just doesn’t have the will to do the hard work necessary to improve. It’s so much easier to hold your hand out and whine.
Horrible Horrace
May 20th, 2010
2:19 pm
Bryan — MARTA supporter
May 20th, 2010
12:37 pm
Nicely played – the race card that is. I know thats the best ya got but I must ask…what else ya got?
john
May 20th, 2010
2:19 pm
Kyle,
Another great article as usual.
Marta won’t do this because it just wants to keep stealing money from the taxpayers and funneling it to a few “select” employees.
This is what Democrats will never understand. Private companies will ALWAYS run more effecient than any government run organization. The reason: better employees who can actually get fired if they do a crappy job….not some lazy, incomptenent government worker sitting around waiting for their nice pension
john
May 20th, 2010
2:20 pm
PS
This is what is so scary about Obama. He wants more and more government workers and organizations.
That equals bankruptcy
Horrible Horrace
May 20th, 2010
2:21 pm
Hey Bryan…ahh ha…HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!
Marta is chock full of inept, lazy employees…How long ya been working at Marta?
Horrible Horrace
May 20th, 2010
2:23 pm
And those employees, if ya can call them that, that vandalized the Marta trains/busses should be arrested for vandalism & malicious mischief, destruction of property etc and then FIRED.
Not A MARTA Fan
May 20th, 2010
2:24 pm
Again, “Go Away, MARTA”……MARTA privatize? are you kidding? That’s too easy and makes too much sense……Besides, we’re talking black here and even tho it makes all the sense in the world it ain’t never gonna happen because “It’s a Black Thing”.
To Horrible Horrace…..this is worth saying again.
May 20th, 2010
10:30 am
Dismantling Marta is the only answer.
Marta will never make a profit.
Marta will always have their hand out.
Marta will always be inefficient and inept at everything.
Marta is a fine example of a financial bottomless pit and chock full of stupid and inept employees, from top to bottom.
Churchill's MOM
May 20th, 2010
2:25 pm
Horrible Horrace 2:21 pm
I doubt that Bryan works for MARTA, just gets paid by them.
Mason Hicks
May 20th, 2010
2:26 pm
I am a proud MARTA supporter. And Bryan is correct. Despite the hyperbolie surrounding MARTA’s reputation; which is more or less correctly described MARTA’s performance under previous administrations, MARTA is well known throughout the public transit industry as a well managed agency. I’m not completely against contracting out a portion of MARTA’s bus operations. In fact, I’ve recently discovered that much of Charlotte’s bus system is managed by a Texas-based subsidiary of Paris’ (the French Paris) RATP. I’ve been told that Charlotte’s bus system is well run. For such out-sourcing to be successful, one has to place close attention to both the contract, the potential contractor, as well as to who will be overseeing and governing the whole process. Unfortunately, I’ve seen nothing to suggest that their is adequate incorruptible competency in Metro Atlanta; or in Georgia for that matter.
Horrible Horrace
May 20th, 2010
2:28 pm
If I didnt know any better I would swear that Barack Obama is the top dog, head honcho, the big cheese that is operating Marta.
Kyle Wingfield
May 20th, 2010
3:23 pm
Church’s: I saw your question(s) about bus driver pay. That’s something I’m still looking into. But for now I can say this: In fiscal 2009, 19 bus drivers grossed more than $75,000, including overtime. The highest-paid driver grossed $96,562.27.
Horrible Horrace
May 20th, 2010
3:31 pm
Bus drivers grossing $75K?!! Just imagine how many other employees are grossly overpaid.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
May 20th, 2010
4:09 pm
@ Churchill’s MOM and Kyle,
It’s racist because to bulk of the riders are poor Blacks that can’t afford cars. No transit system in the WORLD is making a profit and they all will need additional assistance at one point or another. So instead of working to get additional funding what do they do… just cut an entire bus service? Did CCT just get cut? GCT was in a financial crisis as well but they didn’t just cut the service. They cut routes, cut weekend service, and increased wait times for bus. Something would have been much better than nothing and I’m sure the bus riders of Clayton would have been more satisfied with that alternative than to just not have any service at all beside GRTA that only runs during rush hour and only goes to downtown and midtown, which most of the folks riding C-Tran were probably not going.
Trust Kyle you can be racists against your own race. I’m a young Black professional and when I was younger (18 or 19ish) I’d always have older Blacks look at me like I was just a thug in the street because I had braids and tattoos and wore urban clothes. They didn’t think or even ask to see if I was in college, which I was and making good grades. They thought they were better than me because I didn’t grow up in the suburbs. I grew up poor and at times in the projects.
@ Horrible Horrace
Your comments don’t even make sense and I shouldn’t have even replied to give you that satisfaction. No I don’t get paid by MARTA, I pay them to use their services.
Thank you Mason Hicks for seeing what it really is. There are a lot of folks in this area that make it not what it could really be. I love ATL but there are just some folks here that are just so in the backwoods it makes no sense.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
May 20th, 2010
4:13 pm
If it is not racially inspired thinking that holds MARTA back just look at the comment by Not A MARTA Fan May 20th, 2010 2:24 pm. It’s a Black thing huh?
Kyle Wingfield
May 20th, 2010
4:32 pm
What you’re describing in your 4:09, Bryan, has more to do with class issues than race imo. (I mean class vs. class, not saying you are classless, for the record…) But there’s also a problem in that you’re assigning race-based motivations to people making decisions that have very clear financial factors. I don’t think you can ignore money and just put the whole thing down to racism.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
May 20th, 2010
4:46 pm
@ Kyle
Yeah that particular situation is more class based the way it was worded. I understand what you were saying but there are a lot of upper class blacks that don’t like who they are and are racists against their own people. Unfortunately I’ve ran into a few.
You are right also about the financial factors also but just cutting an entire system? There are other alternatives than that. I apologize I don’t remember the lady’s name but she offered I think it was 2 million dollars that was there for board to put toward C-Tran. If I’m not mistaken there was controversy with her about not paying taxes or something like that. I’m sure with cutting some routes (like route 500 for sure) and reducing frequency, and maybe even cutting Sunday service there could have been a better alternative than just cutting an entire bus system.
I can’t find anywhere else where a major transit system was just cut and ended like that. Now to be truthful I just did a quick search so if there is one in recent years I definitely could have over looked it.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
May 20th, 2010
4:51 pm
Whether you agree or not, I strongly feel racism played a significant behind the sceens roll in limiting the expansion of MARTA in it’s early years and still does. But it is not the only thing. I did what to clarify my stance on that.
Churchill's MOM
May 20th, 2010
5:32 pm
Bryan — MARTA supporter….that big chip on your are carrying around is not doing you any good, throw it away and you will be much better off. This whole thing is about money and MARTA’s failure to make good use of what they nave not race.
Maybe when you grow up you will have the $96,562.27 bus driver job.
Jefferson
May 20th, 2010
5:50 pm
Bus Drivers, school teachers, school administrators — so they are overpaid it seems, based on what people want to pay in taxes. So how did that happen?
Bubba
May 20th, 2010
6:16 pm
I would like to see how Wingfield arrived at these numbers. Something is wrong. On an hourly basis, MARTA bus operators are certainly not overpaid. They work hard and long for their money.
I suspect an “agenda” on this. Power and control from politicans and special interest, as usual.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
May 20th, 2010
6:19 pm
Churchill’s MOM
Sorry you have me mistaken. I’m so not worried about the racist people out here. I’m young, Black, educated, I’m getting my money, and I’m living good. I’m the American dream and America’s nightmare all wrapped in one. I’m just telling what it is. I’m telling the truth about MARTA and part of the reason why it hasn’t been expanded.
If you really want to get technically on my very first post at 12:37 pm I barely mentioned race at all. Actually just once in the very first line. You are the one that “bit” on your post at 1:43pm and made it an issue about race and that is what I’ve focused on since. Seem like you and some others made this a real issue about race. Even your comment about making 96K can be taken as racial to a point whether you ment it like that or not. Don’t hate on the bus driver that is skilled at his/her craft and works the overtime to get that kind of money for their family. I’m not making that money. I’m working hard myself to get that kind of money on day. Seems like YOU are the one that has a problem with a bus driver working some regular blue collar job making that kind of money while you are probably not making anywhere near that.
Kyle Wingfield
May 20th, 2010
6:23 pm
Bubba: I didn’t “arrive” at these numbers; MARTA itself reported them to the Legislature…see the 2009 MARTOC report here: http://www.itsmarta.com/reports.aspx
Tiger Woods + Jesse James = SuperBAD meets SuperEVIL in "SuperUGLY!"
May 20th, 2010
6:37 pm
Redneck Convert (R–and proud of it)
May 20th, 2010
8:01 am
“So I think old Kyle done hit upon something here. We can operate MARTA the way businesses operate. The minute it starts loosing any money, we just dump the passengers out into the street and file for bankruptcy and walk away with our Golden Parachutes. Or maybe we can just raise the fare to 100 bucks each way and when people quit riding we can say MARTA wasn’t wanted so it’s time to fold it up.”
I like your way of thinking, Redneck Convert. Why didn’t I think of that sooner? You get the bonus checks and the helicopter ready and I’ll get the shredder fired up….
Jefferson
May 20th, 2010
5:50 pm
“Bus Drivers, school teachers, school administrators — so they are overpaid it seems, based on what people want to pay in taxes. So how did that happen?”
Jefferson, I’ll tell you how that happened: everybody wants to be a CEO walking away through the escape hatch with a Golden Parachute and nobody wants to be the supposedly unappreciated bus driver, school teacher or principal in line to be the first to get the ax when the economy goes bad. Besides, everybody knows that CEOs of billion-dollar corporations and Wall Street investment bankers have WAY more to offer this society than schoolteachers and educators ever have or ever will. That’s why CEOs get multimillion and billion-dollar salaries with benefits and are the first in line to get taxpayer-funded billion-dollar bailouts during economic downturns while teachers and educators are first in line to get put in their place with “non-renewals” of teaching contracts because a teacher who lives it up on an exorbitant salary of $30,000-a-year is infinitely more greedy than a CEO who barely scrapes by on a meager salary of $100 million-plus-a-year and just manages to escape through the backdoor with a truckload full of money while the rest of the company goes down in flames.
Jefferson, remember, evil teachers BAD. Innocent CEOs GOOD. Teachers are the devil and Wall Street investment bankers are angels. I’m pretty sure that all of those CEOs with those Golden Parachutes and those Wall Street bankers with those “unfortunate” mortgage investments could have learned to count high enough to steal, eh, I mean, “misplace” all of that money on their own without the help they had from of all of those modestly paid teachers growing up. Of course I’ll give the greedy CEO and Wall Street bankers a pass and scream like hell when a schoolteacher wants a modest “cost-of-living increase” to help keep a roof over their heads. Evil teachers’ unions, damn government schools. How dare they warp our values!
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 20th, 2010
7:07 pm
Kyle @ 6:23
Good grief. That thing is 200 pages long.
Michael H. Smith
May 20th, 2010
8:09 pm
A lot is going on with some other really serious issue.
Is it time to move onto a different subject?
JBM
May 20th, 2010
9:22 pm
Kyle
Many cities do use taxi cabs for para transit service. Atlanta is one of the few major cities that does not require their taxis to be handicapped accessible. To ride in a cab would require a person to be of sound mind and body which many para transit providers are not
Second how do you reimburse such a system is a problem. There have been reports of contractor fraud in some cases in other cities.
StevenCee
May 21st, 2010
12:33 am
So after this “series examining MARTA”, it would be nice to see your plan for how they should operate. I’ve read all kinds of criticism, much of it glass half empty rock throwing, some of it just plain out to lunch, & alot of just general griping. So how would you propose it all be done better? Is less funding & more cost-cutting, as specific & general those are, all you have to say? Nothing about how we will ever see the Metro area’s serious transportation issues improved?
StevenCee
May 21st, 2010
1:56 am
John, when will the “true believers” realize the mantra of “This is what Democrats will never understand. Private companies will ALWAYS run more effecient than any government run organization.”, in light of what we’ve seen the last ten years at least, is as bogus as saying the reverse?
I’m not even going to begin listing all the huge corporations, from automakers to banks, energy companies to airlines, investment firms to media companies, & yeah, even newspapers, that haven’t shown me they know how to run all that efficiently!
I see, too, we haven’t yet outsourced our military, called for an end to all public education, as well as medicare & the VA, & even all the toughest talking conservative members of congress haven’t made a mass migration away from their “government-run healthcare” plans. Plus, can you tell me what delivery company on the planet will take any letter you give them, and delivery it door to door, anywhere in the US, including Hawaii & Alaska (for no extra charge), for 44 cents?
Pretending the government shouldn’t do anything, and we only need count on “the free market system” (that even Greenspan says doesn’t exist) to make everything right, cheap, and for a profit, sounds good around campaign time, but as a blueprint for forward progress, you’ve got to be kidding….
Churchill's MOM
May 21st, 2010
7:48 am
Bryan — MARTA supporter 6:19 pm
I have the ultimate job, stay at home mother, I hope you are able to do the same for the mother of your children. I don’t draw a salary but am very happy with my situation.
You can’t have it both ways, 1 of MARTA’s biggest problems is mismanagement, the numbers show they are not controlling cost, thus they are stealing from the poor black people you are so worried about.
Jim
May 22nd, 2010
5:09 pm
England is still paying the price for privatizing public transportation in the Thatcher/Majors era. Private companies milk the system for cash, and walk away from their contracts leaving an infrastructure that is decrepit from lack of proper maintenance. Case in point, adding a car to a train adds costs, but not revenue. If passengers can be expected to stand for 45 minutes twice a day every day, the private company will not add a car. In 2004, the rail system was still using the slam door cars like the ones in the WWII movies. Romantic, as long as your not the one that must travel in them every day.
Chris
May 22nd, 2010
5:49 pm
Kyle – when i tried to research just what the savings were, I kept running across studies by supposedly impartial think tanks that are actualy mostly conservative, republican, business groups. I know privatization is a mantra for conservatives; however, it also comes with a great loss of control and lack of accountability to consituents. Plus repeatedly now, privatization has failed to perform in many sectors as it has promised. It often looks good on paper but in practice, over time, not so much. (Much like the current Atlanta parking meter privatization.) You have to remember that a lot of cost-savings promised by free-market competition and efficiencies are balanced by them actually being for profit groups. Often with ties to conflicting business groups. Many cities that have experimented with privitizations of services, have had mixed luck. Wouldn’t it be better just to demand a higher level of accountability and transparency from MARTA, demand more audits and oversight?
Intown
May 24th, 2010
12:34 pm
Why do conservatives ALWAYS conclude that privatization is a silver bullet? Privitzation can go and has gone VERY badly in many cases and is not always the answer.
Kyle Wingfield
May 24th, 2010
2:29 pm
Intown: I don’t think it’s a silver bullet. I also acknowledge that it won’t work in every instance. But when it has been successful in similar circumstances for other agencies/governments, I think we ought to give it a serious look. And MARTA would have the luxury of learning from whatever mistakes other transit agencies have made. After all, even in a particular kind of situation, privatization can be done well and it can be done poorly.
Bryan -- MARTA supporter
May 25th, 2010
12:18 pm
@ Churchill’s MOM May 21st, 2010
7:48 am
Where are your numbers at showing that? There was really only one incident of mismanagment and that was with Ford spending $1,000 of MARTA’s money on personal expenses, and he was made to pay that money back. Other than that none. MARTA is one of the most cost efficient systems in the coutry. Look what they have to work with: No state funding but they have control on how MARTA’s and for that matter the tax payers money is spent, limited Federal funding because of no real investment into the system locally by the ENTIRE metro Atlanta region, and a sales tax funding that isn’t garanteed to generate the same type of revenue for the system year after year.
http://www.itsmarta.com/martamatters/index.aspx
These are facts! Most non MARTA supporters don’t have any facts just personal opinions and stereotypes. The ones that do can only come up with one or two issues that they may be talking about in MARTA’s 30 years of service! Come on. You have to do better than that.
Privatizing MARTA « MARTA Rocks!
May 27th, 2010
12:23 am
[...] took notice. And of course, we must dissect his every argument. Starting with this article. A lesson on frugality for MARTA from out west In this special nonsense, Kyle argues for the privatization of MARTA and how it can save MILLIONS [...]
CCT Girl
May 27th, 2010
12:26 am
Dear Kyle,
I wrote you a response,
http://martarocks.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/privatizing-marta/
Thanks!
<3
Kyle Wingfield
May 27th, 2010
10:10 am
CCT Girl: Thanks for the link. I left a comment on your blog.
Straphanger
May 27th, 2010
4:58 pm
Marta is a failure because it is designed to serve a downtown that doesn’t exist anymore. The subways that work NYC, DC, London (that I have experience with) go to where the jobs and entertainment are. Marta doesn’t. It was planned for political reasons not for the convenience of the those who would pay to ride it.
Mark
May 27th, 2010
5:16 pm
Kyle Wingfield:
does our system of roads in this state turn a profit? Does it even break even? Or does it require millions upon millions of taxpayer dollars every year? Just wondering…
Scott G.
May 27th, 2010
5:52 pm
Cutting the Braves shuttle sounds like a huge mistake. With the highly limited train routes available, there are many people who ONLY take MARTA to big events downtown. Making even that inconvenient will cause them to lose more business. With thinking like that, no wonder they’re in trouble.
Peter
May 27th, 2010
8:36 pm
Scott G.:
MARTA has a daily average ridership of over 450,000. The Braves average gate attendance is maybe 30,000 if they’re lucky and for only 81 dates in a 365 day year. I bet that only a few thousand fans per game actually take MARTA and the Braves shuttle. I wouldn’t describe this number of people as “many” in the grand scheme of things.
There may be people who only take MARTA to Braves games, but it is a minuscule number of people compared to the people who take it to get to and from work, school etc. You know, those important things aside from a baseball game. If cutting that shuttle saves money, then to me it is the first thing you cut. If the Braves shuttle is so important to the team.
CCT Girl
May 27th, 2010
11:04 pm
Thanks for the comment, I responded!
Frances Young
May 31st, 2010
1:09 am
At less then $20 an hour even with overtime how does these drivers make close to $100K a year? impossible