Special series: It’s time to end MARTA’s boom-and-bust budgeting
(NOTE: This is the first in a special series examining MARTA. Part 2 will be posted Monday evening.)
On May 14, this newspaper ran a story that began:
“MARTA’s managers appear determined to hold the line on bus and train fares for another year, but unresolved labor problems and a desire to find new sources of revenue will be continuing worries . . . .”
Yep, that story ran on May 14 — in 1984.
What has the transit agency learned since then? Evidently not much. MARTA still awaits salvation, a train that never seems to arrive. If you read the digital board in a station, it may say, “North Springs, 13 minutes,” or “Airport, 2 minutes.” Perhaps MARTA should add, “Financial Rescue, forget it.”
As you may have heard, MARTA now faces a $120 million budget hole. Believe it or not, the agency projected as early as in 2006 that it would be short $60 million by now, even though revenues were forecast to rise for a decade. Problem was, expenses piled up even faster.
One might summarize the financial history of MARTA (and most public entities) this way:
The economy takes a turn for the worse; MARTA’s budget, which already assumed some operating losses, goes from tenuous to disastrous. Officials warn of (take your pick) drastic, draconian, devastating service cuts unless someone, anyone, finds $50 million in new annual funding. Because the economy has also hit state and local governments, no new money materializes. Service is cut and employees laid off by the hundreds.
The economy takes a turn for the better; MARTA’s losses don’t disappear but do shrink. Still, no new $50 million. Yet the agency restores service and reinstates jobs by the hundreds. Sales tax revenues rise, but expenses rise faster.
The economy takes a turn for the worse . . . .
For a quarter-century at least, MARTA has waited. It has hired lobbyists and PR agents. Managers have come and gone, as have four governors, five Atlanta mayors and various county leaders, of all political leanings. No matter; no new money.
It’s time to stop assuming that things are going to change.
It’s time to stop assuming that the money will come, and that MARTA’s leaders should keep approving boom-and-bust budgets rather than passing what’s sustainable.
It’s time to stop assuming that MARTA itself can or should expand throughout the region.
It’s time to start assuming that MARTA is what it is: One transit entity among many, one that can interlink with the others to play a relatively small but essential transportation role in metro Atlanta. One that must live with today’s 1-penny sales tax for its primary funding.
Alternatives are lacking. Dedicated state funding is a pipe dream — for political reasons, but also because, as the lean budgets lately show, no amount of state spending is truly dedicated.
The Transportation Investment Act of 2010 may generate some $7 billion over a decade if metro voters approve a new 1-cent levy. But, with apologies to the Beltline, the biggest challenges to metro mobility lie on or beyond I-285, and OTP voters are more likely to bite on projects that don’t bear a sullied brand.
In any case, the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority would oversee rail or bus projects funded by the new levy. The idea that GRTA should then turn the new tracks or routes over to MARTA is loopy.
With a clearer view of its role in Atlanta, MARTA could better tackle the problems and opportunities it faces in its current size. There are plenty of each.
Next: How MARTA fell into its current hole.
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172 comments Add your comment
Michael H. Smith
May 14th, 2010
8:54 pm
GUB’MENT Transportation is definitely politics of dependence. Kyle was against it, before he supported it.
BW
May 14th, 2010
9:06 pm
Again what is the solution? Which group of bureaucrats do you prefer to run it? Any group will be prone to mismanage the funds…is this is devil that you know argument? Yes the ‘OTP’ voters in the new tax district will want other options but I personally now people have started to take the Express buses just to avoid the traffic and would take a train if it were more convenient. This state needs new transportation vision not old cynicism.
Dave
May 14th, 2010
9:09 pm
I hope the second part of your piece says that if State money is a pipe dream, then State interference and control should end. Tough to swim when the big boys from the next town over keep dunking you hoping you’ll sink.
Michael H. Smith
May 14th, 2010
10:15 pm
Which group of bureaucrats do you prefer to run it?
None Brucie!
The people of Georgia do not need a government of the state, by the state and for the state.
Tiger Woods + Jesse James = SuperBAD meets SuperEVIL in "SuperUGLY!"
May 14th, 2010
10:33 pm
If MARTA wanted to in small part at least help improve it’s financial picture it would raise it’s fares from the absurdly low rate of $2.00 to at least the $3.00-$5.00 mark to help attempt to balance its books, support existing service and maybe expand if it wanted, at least if it could avoid the temptation to mismanage funds, as has been the case in the past. With $2.00 fares, it doesn’t seem that the agency even desires to at times keep operating on it’s own, much less improve or expand to a level of a real international city. You know, the kind of service that people highly recommend to visitors and newcomers, instead of one that is usually of last resort.
Tiger Woods + Jesse James = SuperBAD meets SuperEVIL in "SuperUGLY!"
May 14th, 2010
10:49 pm
Dear Common Sence,
Why can’t I, as a North Georgia commuter have many more transportation options like a high-quality commuter rail service that reaches all over the state of Georgia and even into surrounding states like Tennessee, Alabama, South Carolina and North Carolina that makes the daily commute for millions of Georgia motorists much better and opening up more of the state for residential, commercial and industrial development and making my commute less hellacious and giving me more mobility options with more places that I would be able to choose from to live and work? Why can’t I a high-quality rapid transit service available that takes me all over Metro Atlanta and consists of 24-hour bus, trolley, cable car, light-rail and heavy-rail trains in addition to far-reaching commuter rail trains? Don’t my state and local political leaders know that I would very much be willing to pay a premium rate for a premium service that is mechanically safe, clean, efficient, secure and convenient? What is the problem?
Sincerely, Frustrated with transportation planning and management in Georgia.
Michael H. Smith
May 14th, 2010
11:12 pm
Why can’t I, as a North Georgia commuter have many more transportation options like a high-quality commuter rail service that reaches all over the state of Georgia
It is very possible – at least in Georgia – but highly improbable because of the politics of dependency.
Curious though if you would be willing to actually personally invest in the kind of system you say you want if that system were created as a private public corporate entity and not as another GUB’MENT owned system?
Jon
May 14th, 2010
11:41 pm
“But, with apologies to the Beltline, the biggest challenges to metro mobility lie on or beyond I-285, and OTP voters are more likely to bite on projects that don’t bear a sullied brand.”
Oh, goodie…let’s just add another 16 lanes and call it a day.
ex MARTA employee
May 15th, 2010
12:17 am
There are many culprits who have led to the current depressed state of MARTA including an inept CEO (Ford), many unqualified in upper management (Boyd, Perry), the state legislature and a Republican governor who has only recently acknowledged the transportation issue. The fundamental argument re: MARTA is this: should public transportation be required to make a profit? The same question should be asked of public health services such as Grady Hospital…should it be required to make a profit or is it providing a public service that is to be tax payer and government funded with the goal of breaking even at the end of each year? If it is to be required to make a profit, then allow it to be totally privatized and the cost CAN go up to $5. Of course, this scenario discounts those who are totally dependent on public transportation. If it is to be government funded, then it should be STATE supported such as a gas tax. There are no easy answers, but until this question is asked and answered, a true strategy will be hard to come by.
Also, more care should be given to who sits on the Board b/c it has for too long been a wasteland where incompetent people go just to be able to say “I’m on a Board”.
Stoned Mountain
May 15th, 2010
12:29 am
Kyle Wingfield —
A few questions…. Have you ever ridden a MARTA bus or train? Have you ever talked to any Atlanta public transit riders? Have you ever examined the history of mass transit in America, or talked to people who specialize in the economics of public transportation, including capital needs and how transit operations work in major metropolitan areas of the U.S.?
Just trying to assure myself you have a grasp of the challenges facing MARTA and other urban transit systems so that we can take seriously your recommendations for improving public transportation in the Atlanta metropolitan community. Thanks in advance for your response.
Virginia
May 15th, 2010
12:30 am
Two bus drivers swipe money with Breeze cards and I bet the CEO will just give them a slap on the wrists while MARTA cuts out routes that disabled,elderly, and low-income riders depend on to get to work,school,medical appointments,etc.You think we should be so gratful to have transportation that we’ll fork over $5-6 per ride? I think not! Most of the riders I know,including myself,could not afford that much! If the Lottery can pay for Pre-K,why couldn’t the already-paid for Toll pay for public transit? Or do you really want more roads,more pollution, and more unemployment when riders are left stranded at home and cannot get to work? MARTA already has a bad reputation when it comes to disabled folks trying to get a job (”Sorry, I can’t hire you. MARTA’s unreliable”.) time and time again, MARTA proves the unwilling employer right when it comes to hiring disabled persons. I also heard,”Can’t you Mommy and Daddy bring you to Work?” How patronising! Selling food in the stations is a bad idea too. haven’t you seen the messes people leave in the stations,trains,and buses? I’ve been riding MARTA ,CCT,and GCT for about 32 years and I’ve seen the messes, especially when the drivers let riders eat or drink on the buses and trains.
Matt
May 15th, 2010
12:55 am
MARTA should not get any state funding until it expands beyond two counties, regardless of politics. Fares should adopt a milege systems like DC’s metro, $5.00 from Doraville/NS to the Airport should be the maximum.
MARTA is less corrupt than other big city systems but it is still an awful system. I relocated intown and tried it for time but eventually I bought a car to save 2 hours of my life every day.
CD
May 15th, 2010
4:49 am
Stoned Mountain – Are you expecting substance or something. Kyle is just writing a shallow opinion piece that is expected by his employer to facilitate much shallow opinionated debate much of which will not be based on his article but based on preconceived unrelated political opinions.
Matt – MARTA would love to expand to other counties but it is kind of hard when other counties vote against it. It makes it a little tough for a “metro” transit system when there are about 20 counties in the metropolitan area each with their own transportation agenda.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
7:12 am
Gee, how many times does the word NO mean something other than NO to MARTA and its supporters?
Get this MARTA fans “PUBLIC” TRANS lovers and GUB’MENT dependency pushers, there are a good number of people who will NEVER give you what YOU want.
You bet I got my own “capitalist” agenda that does not include your GUB’MENT owned and operated transportation system or systems CD and I’m sticking to it.
Kyle's Korner
May 15th, 2010
7:41 am
Marta is clearly out of ideas. I read where one plan was to build a $50 million bridgeway over the Atlanta Aquarium. Talk about jumping the shark.
Similarly, Kyle has jumped the track here. The one cent tax is a dangerous suggestion. A single penny on this rail would only derail it, (and smush the penny into smithereens). Even schoolchildren know that.
Why can’t Marta’s penny pinchers simply take the budget, and divide it by the number of tickets-to-ride sold in a year, and come up with a fair fare.
But whatever number of tickets-to-ride they estimate, they need to add one, because the girl that’s driving me mad is going away. I think I’m gonna be sad. I think it’s today. Yeah.
Lynn43
May 15th, 2010
8:13 am
Kyle, I remember many years ago, probably before you were born, a controversy came about because of the “force appointment” of the Chairman of the Board. The people in charge of appointing Board members had wanted to involve people in the community who actually rode Marta, so they appointed a woman of welfare to the Board. When it became time to appoint a new Chairman, because of some policy, they had to appoint this woman who could not, nor had the knowledge, to even manage her finances or run an organiztion.
People with lack of financial knowledge or vision have constantly been in “the driver’s seat” for many years, and until this changes, no amount of money will fix the problem.
Just look at what the right kind of management has done for Grady.
Bill
May 15th, 2010
8:13 am
Michael Smith,
No Government subsidies for transportation? Does that mean you are willing to give up (or pay for your use of) the interstates, and the county road that runs past your home. Mass transit gets a small fraction of the support that highways get, and it is time to change that formula in a major way.
It appears the you feel like those who ride MARTA should bear the entire cost, or as Kyle suggest divide the budget by the ridership to establish fares. On the other hand, you do not appear uncomfortable with having other people subsidize your highways.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
8:21 am
No Government subsidies for transportation?
I’ve never made such a statement as that Bill, those are your chosen words – lies.
So Bill, if you are going tell your lies at least tell them on yourself and not me.
Morrus
May 15th, 2010
8:23 am
Curiously, in a supposed anti-incumbent year, most of the departing are not retiring but seeking higher office. We may recycle more than we replace. The bad news is that a frustrating 114 seats still have but one contestant. Two of them aren’t even incumbents, meaning they will affect state policy without being vetted by voters. And I have to think that we’d be better off if many had run instead for the Legislature — and cut down on the number running unopposed. Georgia’s problems are numerous. They aren’t going away. There’s too much stale thinking at the Capitol, on both sides of the aisle. New voices would be welcome.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
8:34 am
Oh and for the record “Lair Bill” who is joining the ranks of “Lair Brucie Wilcox”: I don’t think MARTA or GRTA should even exist!
I’m in favor of a statewide public private rail system with the State owning the “proprietary rails”, which is the only taxpayer subsidy that should ever exist.
Byron Mathison Kerr
May 15th, 2010
8:35 am
“It’s time to start assuming that MARTA is what it is: One transit entity among many, one that can interlink with the others to play a relatively small but essential transportation role in metro Atlanta. …”
“relatively small but essential”??? The sole transportation system for the two core metro Atlanta counties? The only one with an extensive (if only two county) firm rail system? The one whose large bus system covers a much tighter area, making it incomparable to the others?
Kyle, I know MARTA has its problems, both internally and externally — but this highly questionable assertion alone seriously discredits your “special series.”
I am going to pass on this one in lieu of, hopefully, more objective reporting from elsewhere. One should always be extra careful of the “facts” presented in an opinion “political commentary” article.
CJ
May 15th, 2010
8:42 am
“Dedicated state funding is a pipe dream — for political reasons,…”
Exactly.
Georgia Republicans are racists. Poor and working class African-Americans rely on MARTA to get to and from work. Therefore, Georgia Republicans hate MARTA.
Note to those who would accuse me of playing the race card: It is the Republicans under the Gold Dome who are playing the race card. I’m just calling them out on it.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
8:50 am
Yeah, I believe you CJ. You are not playing the ethnic card, you’re not a shameless bigot, you are just prejudice as hell!
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
9:13 am
A small footnote is necessary at this time to erase some “stereotypical crap” that has been inferred on poor people:
There are more poor white people than poor black people in this country, if receiving government assistance is the indicator.
DannyX
May 15th, 2010
9:52 am
“”The Transportation Investment Act of 2010 may generate some $7 billion over a decade if metro voters approve a new 1-cent levy. But, with apologies to the Beltline, the biggest challenges to metro mobility lie on or beyond I-285, and OTP voters are more likely to bite on projects that don’t bear a sullied brand.”"
So Kyle, you want DeKalb and Fulton to continue paying the 1 cent MARTA tax. You also want DeKalb and Fulton to pay an additional 1 cent sales tax to fund transportation projects outside the perimeter mainly to the benefit of Cobb, Gwinnett, and Cherokee counties.
That’s the craziest thing I have read in a long time.
Scott
May 15th, 2010
9:52 am
“It’s time to start assuming that MARTA is what it is: One transit entity among many, one that can interlink with the others to play a relatively small but essential transportation role in metro Atlanta. One that must live with today’s 1-penny sales tax for its primary funding.”
Kyle…you are just plain wrong…last time I looked half a MILLION people a week isn’t some SMALL role. You need to get over this ideology vs facts that your buddies in the legislature subscribe to. Too bad we cant fire you, but I am sure as hell going to be working to fire Jill Chambers and Jan Jones and all the other anti-transit bozos. Lets talk about MARTA being singled out over every other transit agency in the state as unable to use the funds from the new sales tax. Atlanta voters are not going to vote to pave their way further in the hole…Kyle, you are just plain wrong and too bad you are also not objective and horribly biased
Kyle Wingfield
May 15th, 2010
9:56 am
Jon: Some of the projects will most likely be roads. But there will almost certainly be an OTP transit component as well.
ex-MARTA employee: I’ll get into the P&L question later in this series (i.e. next week).
Stoned Mountain: I commute on the train 4-5 days a week. When I lived in Brussels, I also took public transportation to work every day, as well as many weekends (my wife and I didn’t own a car the first 1.5 years we lived there). I have spent hours and hours talking with MARTA management, legislators who work on transportation issues, and outside transportation experts. You may end up disagreeing with me, but it won’t be because I haven’t done my homework.
Scott
May 15th, 2010
9:57 am
Kyle…have a look at this short vid:
http://www.youtube.com/user/1standMain
Its called SPRAWLANTA…perhaps you’ll learn something
Scott
May 15th, 2010
9:59 am
Brussels is a nice transit option that is highly subsidised by who?…government. MARTA gets not a dime from the state yet the state wants to micromanage and control every aspect (and we see how well that works at the DOT)
Scott
May 15th, 2010
10:02 am
Kyle, why dont you do an interview with Dr Beverly Scott and publish it (I am totally serious). I would like to hear her answer some of the questions you are asking. I think it would be very constructive and might give us all some more perspective
Scott
May 15th, 2010
10:05 am
One more thing (then I’ll shut up for a while
You forget that the gas tax goes only to roads and bridges so there is a funding source there already. This would be the only avenue of funding for transit based projects. Take a look a Concept 3 (which the legislature endorsed in the bill). That would make Atlanta truly world class
Kyle Wingfield
May 15th, 2010
10:05 am
Byron Mathison, Scott and others: Transit in metro Atlanta as a whole is small relative to other modes of transportation, because most people commute in cars. I don’t think anyone disputes that. But I’m not saying that small = insignificant or unimportant.
CJ: So were the Democrats who didn’t provide state funding to MARTA for the first 30 years of its existence also racist? Can we please engage on the substance of this issue? Because I can assure you that the “Republicans better pay up for transit or else they’re racist” line of argument will get us absolutely nowhere.
DannyX: The new penny sales tax, if passed, will probably be dedicated to a number of projects. I feel confident that Fulton and DeKalb voters (of which I am one) will get their fair share, even if the money goes to something other than MARTA itself.
Vote Dems Out
May 15th, 2010
10:14 am
MARTA? You mean that entity that has those buses driving around in north Metro Atlanta that are empty every time I see them? Oh yeah, and with regards to CJ, what’s a day without some mindless liberal bedwetting and saying “racism” where there is none. These idiots on the left have whored out that word so much it’s now essentially meaningless. I guess if I bring up that MARTA convention in Las Vegas several years ago that cost tens of thousands is being racist too. I guess if I bring up the incompetence of those buffoons running MARTA and brilliance like taking 20 YEARS to expand the rail line north to Windward Parkway is racist too. What a liberal tool.
joan1
May 15th, 2010
10:14 am
MARTA is probably just suffering from being run by Atlantans. This city isn’t known for the quality or honesty of its politicians. St. Louis got a transit system three times as large as MARTA up and running, successfully, within the last five years. Of course, it goes places people want to go, and aids commuters in getting to work on time, and is reliable, and well…just a lot of things MARTA is not and never has been. And then, of course, you have the problems of a lot of people being scared to ride MARTA at night due to the loud, obnoxious and dangerous kids that people it then.
DannyX
May 15th, 2010
10:21 am
“And then, of course, you have the problems of a lot of people being scared to ride MARTA at night due to the loud, obnoxious and dangerous kids that people it then.”
Right on cue. CJ nailed it.
Kyle Wingfield
May 15th, 2010
10:21 am
Scott: I have spent about 2.5 hours interviewing Dr. Scott over the past several months, and spent another couple of hours with other MARTA managers a couple of weeks ago, specifically for this series. I will be quoting some of them later in the series.
I have looked at Concept 3. You’re right — it would make for a world-class transit system. It would also cost something like $70 billion to build — at a minimum. To put that in perspective, MARTA’s existing infrastructure, built over the past three decades, is usually valued at about $6 billion. Further, $70 billion is about four times the entire state budget for the coming year.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
10:22 am
What size are those GUB’MENT transportation dependency flip-flops you are wearing, Kyle? For a so-called conservative they sure look mighty big at the moment.
Vote Dems Out
May 15th, 2010
10:24 am
Leave it to a liberal like CJ to wh0re out the “racist” word as so typical of a liberal. They have denigrated that word and used it for every minute distraction of debate to where it’s now an essentially meaningless and stale word. Great job liberals!
But anyway, are we talking about the same MARTA that has empty buses driving around in the north metro Atlanta area every time I see them? Are we talking about the same MARTA that several years ago spent tens of thousands on a “convention” in Las Vegas? Are we talking about the same MARTA that will take 20 YEARS to expand the north rail line to Windward Parkway?
Meanwhile in other news…
“(Reuters) – The United States posted an $82.69 billion deficit in April, nearly four times the $20.91 billion shortfall registered in April 2009 and the largest on record for that month, the Treasury Department said on Wednesday.”
I guess the liberalism and socialism of Greece and the rest of Europe’s financial implosions aren’t good enough. There’s only so much a society can survive with out of control spending and expecting to just tax the “rich” to pay for it all – let alone a society of selfish me-first people who only want to work 30 hours a week and expect to get paid like a prince and use unions to get the pay. Europe has reached critical mass. We’re next under these blowhard lawyers from 1600 Pennsylvania to Capitol Hill running our nation currently. Is it November yet?
Vote Dems Out
May 15th, 2010
10:26 am
““And then, of course, you have the problems of a lot of people being scared to ride MARTA at night due to the loud, obnoxious and dangerous kids that people it then.”
I guess that means all those Georgia Tech college kids who get car jacked at night (and the handful who get shot every now and then) don’t need to be afraid of anything either, right DannyX? Those racists.
DannyX
May 15th, 2010
10:29 am
“I guess that means all those Georgia Tech college kids who get car jacked at night (and the handful who get shot every now and then) don’t need to be afraid of anything either, right DannyX? Those racists.”
Right on cue. CJ nailed it.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
10:31 am
Repent Kyle, where is your faith in private sector capitalism?
Jess
May 15th, 2010
10:31 am
Politics have dominated the operation of MARTA from the very beginning, including the period when we had a “welfare” chairperson. This is the same thing which nearly shut down Grady hospital.When and if someone with the brains and knowhow is given a free hand to run MARTA we may see a turnaround. Until then we can count on this organization acting like so many of the people in this dependancy addicted country. They will wring their hands and hope someone saves them. In their minds, if they want things to improve, they will just have to shout and complain louder than other government organizations.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
10:41 am
Oh ye of little faith when will you learn that government is addicted to creating government dependent addictions?
A statewide public private mass transit rapid rial system is the way to go.
DannyX
May 15th, 2010
11:05 am
I can make a company in the transportation business look just as bad as MARTA. Maybe worse. Delta Airlines.
Here is a company that spends more than it makes. It barely made it out of bankruptcy. Delta’s fares are too low, they keep losing money. They, like MARTA are trying to recover from horrible, past mismanagement. They have labor strife. A Delta cockpit crew forgot to land a plane full of passengers and flew past their destination! There have been drug raids at the airport involving their employees. Delta flight attendants got in a cat fight. They have very low ranked customer service, almost last. They have left jets full of passengers stranded on runways. They shut down in bad weather.
Of course the state of Georgia still showers Delta in tax breaks. Imagine that, “free market” Georgia propping up an “incompetent,” business. Of course Delta escapes all the negative images.
MARTA on the other hand is the brunt of the jokes. Anyone know what MARTA stands for?
Vote Dems Out
May 15th, 2010
11:13 am
“Right on cue. CJ nailed it.”
He Xboy: exactly what part of being afraid of CRIME do you not understand? Race has nothing to do with it, as stated. It’s you race baggers who bring race into everything. Law abiding citizens can’t select what race a person is who attacks him/her. Idiot.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
11:33 am
So what Brucie X you can make a company in the transportation business look as bad as MARTA.
Government subsidizes these airlines. If government via the politics of dependency didn’t subsidize these airlines to the point of nationalization a good number of them would go out of the transportation business as rightly they should have done long ago. Then the remaining air transportation market would function profitably and competitively without government subsidies as they should.
GUB’MENT should not be in the business of competing with private sector businesses and picking the winners or losers in this regulated capitalist economy through the means and use of taxpayer subsidies.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
12:00 pm
Furthermore, the only thing government should own and control or subsidies to a very small degree within the regulated capitalist economy of this country is “proprietary infrastructure”.
No More Progressives!
May 15th, 2010
12:20 pm
Michael H. Smith
May 14th, 2010
11:12 pm
Curious though if you would be willing to actually personally invest in the kind of system you say you want if that system were created as a private public corporate entity and not as another GUB’MENT owned system?
I can only wonder how many people “personally” invested in AMTRAK. Oh, that’s right; we all did, by virtue of confiscated taxes. An look what a venture AMTRAK turned out to be.
CJ
May 15th, 2010
12:50 pm
Kyle: “CJ: So were the Democrats who didn’t provide state funding to MARTA for the first 30 years of its existence also racist? Can we please engage on the substance of this issue?”
Many, if not most, of today’s southern Republicans are yesterday’s southern Democrats.
And if you believe, Kyle, that the relationship between racism and decisions made about MARTA at the state level is not substantial, then I’m afraid that you have your blindfold on.
HB 277 is yet another demonstration of state lawmaker’s distaste for buses and trains full of black people. In their effort to undermine MARTA, they wrote the law such that one and only one local transit agency (out of more than 100) cannot use tax money raised under the legislation for current operations. Can you guess which transit agency that is?
Of course, state lawmakers already limit how MARTA can spend on current operations out of money otherwise available from taxes generated from Fulton and Dekalb counties. They were kind enough to suspend these restrictions for a couple of years, but they go back into place when the suspension is over. Governor Perdue’s spokesperson said that this suspension was a necessary compromise for “people in suburban counties concerned about how their tax dollars are spent and rural folks as well,”
People in suburban counties and rural folks. We hear you Governor. Loud and clear.
DannyX
May 15th, 2010
12:53 pm
Then there is the Georgia Department of Transportation. This has turned out to be the most incompetent of all our government agencies. Of course our suburban neighbors would never refuse to work with them. The amount of metro tax dollars that have been diverted to other parts of the state is staggering. Yet MARTA dominates any talk on transportation.
Same old dissection of MARTA looking for a scapegoat. Can’t wait for part 2.
DOT? A-OKAY!
Delta Airlines? Pump them up with tax breaks
MARTA? Attack and destroy
I say we stop the slow death. Kill MARTA and get it over with. DeKalb and Fulton should rescind the one penny sales tax. DeKalb and Fulton can then fund a small bus service with their share of the regional sales tax. Some of the stations are sitting on expensive pieces of property, selling them off could help fund the new system. Buses around the Beltline. The Arts Center Station could house the new symphony hall.
Kill the MARTA tax.
Byron Mathison Kerr
May 15th, 2010
2:35 pm
To Kyle Wingfield @ 10:05 am:
I had no idea your reference to “transit entity” included private automobiles.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
2:47 pm
Cute comment No More but there is a very big difference between an individual making an investment of their choice with their money and BIG SOCIALIST GUB’MENT confiscating their money spending it on something they may not want to invest their money in: Like wealth redistribution?
From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.
Do I really need to go any further to explain things?
However, it might surprise you how many people would ride a public private Amtrak as an alternative to flying if the GUB’MENT stopped subsidizing air flights in this country.
Bob
May 15th, 2010
2:49 pm
Bill, you can change the formula if you wish but the county did noy pay for the county roads, the taxpayers of the county did.
Byron Mathison Kerr
May 15th, 2010
3:05 pm
joan1 @ 10:14 am wrote:
“MARTA is probably just suffering from being run by Atlantans. This city isn’t known for the quality or honesty of its politicians. St. Louis got a transit system three times as large as MARTA up and running, successfully, within the last five years.”
I can’t help but wonder just how successful St. Louis would have been with its endeavors if the city was located in the state of Georgia.
“Of course, it goes places people want to go, and aids commuters in getting to work on time, and is reliable, and well…just a lot of things MARTA is not and never has been.”
Gwinnett, Cobb, and Clayton counties had the early opportunity to opt into the MARTA system. Imagine a series of firm rail lines actually running all the way through to the edge of those counties.
I worked at Georgia Tech for 20 years and used MARTA. I was on time more often than many coworkers who were frequently stuck in traffic. MARTA was certainly reliable enough, for all practical purposes. I wonder what specifically you were referring to.
“And then, of course, you have the problems of a lot of people being scared to ride MARTA at night due to the loud, obnoxious and dangerous kids that people it then.”
If you’re concerned about safety at night, board the first car of the train. It is always occupied by the train operator.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
3:12 pm
And Bob, GUB’MENT does not pay for our cars, gas, tires, oil, maintenance, insurance etc. and furnish us with drivers to take us to and from our destinations on our taxpayer subsidized State owned and controlled “proprietary infrastructure” that is equally available to all State licensed drivers for use. Which does not meet the same criteria of wealth redistribution as it does with a MARTA, no matter what formula is used.
joan1
May 15th, 2010
3:17 pm
Thanks Byron. Good tip. Assuming the train operator would actually come to a person’s rescue.
Byron Mathison Kerr
May 15th, 2010
3:35 pm
I believe the presence of the train operator, in and of itself, would be a strong deterrent to troublemakers. The operator would be an official witness to whatever happens.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
3:55 pm
Joan 1, take the mass transit of rapid rail out of public GUB’MENT hands, raise the fare price for rides closer to the actual cost of the trip that will get rid of most thugs. Including getting rid of “wealth redistribution” which is what these socialist liberals really want public transportation to provide.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 15th, 2010
3:55 pm
When I was a very small boy, late 50’s early 60’s, there was the Atlanta Transit Company. They had buses and they also had what we called trolleys, that looked like buses except they ran on electricity from an overhead grid system. The trolleys were all downtown, I think. If memory serves, they took them out because they were supposed to be inefficient and the grid system of overhead lines was thought by many to be ugly. Looks like we’ve come close to full circle.
While the Metro area is much larger now than it was then, the city proper is pretty close to the same size as then in land area, I believe.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
4:07 pm
Atlanta Transit Company (privately owned)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Transit_Company
Transportation is all Gub'ment wealth redistribution
May 15th, 2010
4:21 pm
There is not a mode of transportation that pays for all of its capital and ongoing operations and maintenance costs – tis all Socialist Gub’ment as you call it. And in fact, when the Interstate Highway system was being planned and built – there were people just like yourself touting it’s socialistic upbringing. On highways – you are forgetting local state and local budgets that we all pay for policing and maintaining our highways. This doesn’t include longterm Gub’ment care from those with deabilitating injuries from car crashes and the last few hours/ days of life from those who die from car accidents.
Truth is, Transportation lays the groundwork for Economic Growth – the more variety you have the more flexibility and choice and subsequent quality of life and require concencus to build (even highways – e.g. Atlanta Northern Arc / Outer Perimeter – still not built because of lack of support to build it.
My choice live convenient to a MARTA station, own a car, earn money, render unto Cesar what is Cesar’s, and live one wonderfull fun life!
Base
May 15th, 2010
4:22 pm
GRTA is the problem not the solution.The Sonny plan will not work!
Churchill's MOM
May 15th, 2010
4:36 pm
Enter your comments here
Base
May 15th, 2010
4:53 pm
Why don’t you investigate GRTA, an incompetent Sonny puppet that is a failure and its excessive salaries and budget.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
6:17 pm
Transportation is all Gub’ment wealth redistribution
May 15th, 2010
4:21 pm
There is not a mode of transportation that pays for all of its capital and ongoing operations and maintenance costs – tis all Socialist Gub’ment as you call it.
Hogwash.
Transportation is all Gub'ment wealth redistribution
May 15th, 2010
6:35 pm
Federal 90% 10% local match for highway projects — sales tax with every refuel
Federal 50% 50% local match transit projects—- local sales tax / farebox / other fed /local support
Federal 90% 10% local match Airport projects — Fees from operators
Federal build out of freight railroads (intial) — no expansion without federal match, covers O&M
Federal 80% 20% local — ports — fees from operators
With exception of the railroads – federal dollars contribute to continued capital reinvestment
Kyle Wingfield
May 15th, 2010
7:13 pm
For Byron’s benefit: “…relatively small but essential transportation role in metro Atlanta.”
It should be clear as day that “relatively small” (like “essential”) modifies “transportation role,” and that I’m talking about all transportation, which encompasses but is not limited to mass transit.
And CJ, do you think only white people use those other 100-plus transit systems in Georgia? Is that why they are favored and MARTA isn’t? Have you ever bothered to look at the demographics of other parts of the state, particularly those areas with transit systems? Here’s a hint: They are very similar to Atlanta’s demographics.
If you wanted to declare Republicans “anti-Atlanta” you’d still be wrong, but at least you wouldn’t be ridiculously so.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
7:31 pm
Transportation is all Gub’ment wealth redistribution
May 15th, 2010
6:35 pm
GUB’MENT does not pay for our cars, gas, tires, oil, maintenance, insurance etc. and furnish us with drivers to take us to and from our destinations on our taxpayer subsidized State owned and controlled “proprietary infrastructure” that is equally available to all State licensed drivers for use. Which does not meet the same criteria of Socialist “wealth redistribution” as it does with a MARTA, no matter what formula is used.
Disgusted
May 15th, 2010
7:46 pm
MARTA was doomed the minute the decision was made to terminate service largely at the perimeter, when the growth was occurring north and south of downtown. It essentially was designed to serve downtown people, with people living OTP as an after-thought. The resentment grew accordingly.
As a north Fulton resident, I honestly tried to use MARTA for almost two years. I got infrequent standing room-only buses in which air conditioners seldom worked, while intown residents got the fancy train service. After that experiment, I did everything possible to avoid funding MARTA, including shopping in non-MARTA counties.
Flush it. Sorry, but the notion of a truly regional transportation system is a pipe dream. Don’t expect people who are poorly served by MARTA to be willing to expand funding for it.
S
May 15th, 2010
7:48 pm
I admit, you do have a point when it comes to the price, Kyle. I’m living in Europe now, and it’s nothing to pay the equivalent of $15 or so to go from, say, the distance of Doraville to the Airport round-trip. (That’s a one-time fare — you’d do better to get a monthly ticket ($98 or so for that distance.) It’s a lot steeper than MARTA, but I bet you that train is quick, clean, efficient, and always on time — I could set my watch by it. Transit costs more here, but then we get as good as we pay for. It might be more feasible for MARTA to go to a higher fare, or a distance-based one that is higher incrementally. Some people might struggle to pay the higher fare, but then they’ll likely also struggle when MARTA cuts bus service to their neighbourhood and makes them walk 2 miles to catch an alternate bus.
S
May 15th, 2010
7:57 pm
@ Disgusted: Don’t those other counties have to agree to allow MARTA in? If they weren’t on board with allowing MARTA to build, then how could further advancement in those directions be made?
(If you’re talking only about northern Fulton county, though, then I can understand why greater expansion didn’t occur there — I agree with you that the MARTA Powers That Be chose to focus mainly on inner city residents who would most assuredly ride MARTA, rather than taking a chance on suburban residents who are rather tied to their vehicles.)
This might be a comment for a different article, but I think part of the MARTA mess is racial politics + poor economic planning + a very car-oriented region. (And, I have to say, honestly, that if some of the types of folks I ran into often on MARTA patronised in large quantities the public transportation here (I’e moved away from Atlanta), then I’d think twice about riding trains or buses here.
Disgusted
May 15th, 2010
8:13 pm
(If you’re talking only about northern Fulton county, though, then I can understand why greater expansion didn’t occur there — I agree with you that the MARTA Powers That Be chose to focus mainly on inner city residents who would most assuredly ride MARTA, rather than taking a chance on suburban residents who are rather tied to their vehicles.)
Ah, but even the growth projections at the time of MARTA’s founding (I lived in Atlanta at the time) were that the growth would occur in the northern and southern reaches of the two counties. For me, the decision not to use MARTA has nothing to do with the politics of the situation or the “car-oriented” nature of the outer residents. They’re “car-oriented” because they don’t have a choice. Most of downtown Atlanta was also car-oriented before the advent of MARTA–I lived there at the time. MARTA chose to be insular in its thinking and planning. It is now paying the price. We now have 6 million residents of metro Atlanta being asked to pay more for the convenience of 600,000 residents. Even if MARTA reversed its thinking today, it would be 20 or 30 years before OTP residents saw truly convenient service. Many of us will not be alive that long.
AP Police
May 15th, 2010
8:49 pm
I’m sorry Kyle, but it’s not “assume” (as to take charged of something) it is presume.
Brad
May 15th, 2010
8:59 pm
MARTA was doomed from the start by racist metro counties that would not participate. All you OTP complainers have only yourselves to blame.
As the saying goes, the only problem with Atlanta is that it is surrounded by Georgia.
fred garvin
May 15th, 2010
9:10 pm
easy, now Brad. I just posted a comment on the illegal KSU student on the ajc site and Cynthia ‘ I look up the Al and Jesse Tucker’ pulled the article. Nothing racist posted, just fact that she authored the article and it would have been nice if she commented on the internet readers’ comments. How do you think I feel, now?? Haters
zeke
May 15th, 2010
9:10 pm
RAISE FARES TO COVER ACTUAL EXPENSES! STOP USING THE 1% RAPE OF ALL TAXPAYERS TO FUND THIS HELL HOLE! IF IT CANNOT BE SELF SUFFICIENT, SELL IT OR SHUT IT DOWN! ALL THIS TYPE SOCIALIST SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUD AGENDA PROJECTS ARE ALWAYS A MONEY PIT, WITH NO END IN SIGHT!
Michael Smith Hater
May 15th, 2010
9:12 pm
No government, huh? No planning, no zoning? Okay to put any kind of structure anywhere anyone wants, and it’s okay? You call that freedom? No bureaucrats? What about the person who wants to put a strip club next to your church, or an office park in which the main access is your 25 mph residential street? Oh, wait… that street was put in by the developer 25 years ago, and it hasn’t been maintained. So you probably can’t go 25 mph on that street for all the potholes and crumbling surface. It’s more like a gravel road now.
Were you the retarded one in your family growing up?
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
9:20 pm
I’m against you on trying to push voter passage of your penny tax for GRTA, which is nothing but MARTA on steroids Kyle. Don’t fool yourself about building roads as the answer either. The road deficit is too large to ever overcome, even with a nickle added tax. Rapid rail mass transit will eventually happen. The real debate is will this happen in the form of more GUB’MENT Socialism or will it happen in the form of Capitalist Populism. Libertarian Corporatism is off the table.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
9:23 pm
As I said before Mr. Hater tell your lies on yourself, for they do not apply to me. Every accusation you made is false.
Dave
May 15th, 2010
9:24 pm
Having read most of the comments, if they are representative of the electorate (and keep in mind that probably most people here are in “greater Atlanta”), I think that, I believe either CJ or DannyX’s suggestion that we just shut the whole thing down is in order. Then while we’re at it let’s stop funding roads, police and fire protection. Gub ‘ment, as good old Mike would tell you and tell you, is evil. We’ll all do it on our own. God or the deity of your choice help us all.
Po
May 15th, 2010
9:29 pm
We should have waited for private industry to see the need for and fund the atomic bomb.
Po
May 15th, 2010
9:32 pm
Every full bus takes 30 cars off the road. To all of those folks in your cars, yes you need to paying as well. Don’t think you’re not benefitting. Maybe not as much as if you were smart enough to use the system, but well, everyone can’t be above average.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
9:33 pm
Good old Dave essential government is a necessary evil that even a Mossback like me is willing to suffer, a BIG GUB’MENT mostly Socialist that Brucie Wilcox, CJ and Danny X says is essential is an unacceptable evil I would not think hell itself should suffer.
John Jones
May 15th, 2010
9:42 pm
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Dave
May 15th, 2010
9:42 pm
Mike, we differ as to what is essential. And we differ as to labeling what we consider to be essential to be “evil.” Were it not to be so catastrophic, I love to call the government hater’s bluff and just shut it down to hear the howls from them.
My house burned, I’m the victim of crime, that damned huge pothole down the road broke a strut on my car and it’s going to cost me a fortune.
Oh and that MARTA thing? Who the hell are those multiple tens of thousands of people on the roads with the potholes getting in my way? Why the hell can’t I get decent blue collar help at a reasonable price? The questions and the silly responses go on and on.
Dave
May 15th, 2010
9:46 pm
Better typed: “I’d love to call the government haters’ bluff….”
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
9:52 pm
Oh and by the way good old Dave would it make you feel better if I tell you and tell you under many different fictitious names occasionally agreeing with myself in praise as others do on these blogs or I’m just special?
Dave
May 15th, 2010
9:58 pm
Don’t quite understand what you’re saying Mike. I’m fake? I’m CJ or DannyX or both? You are, or are not, Mike? It’s you against multiple identities? Assuming any of the above, what does it have to do with substance? Have a good night, I’m going to watch the Braves finish going down in flames.
No More Progressives!
May 15th, 2010
9:58 pm
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
2:47 pm
I’m in complete agreement. No one that I know, (sane or otherwise) intentionally comitted one penny to AMTRAK. My satire was aimed at the Imperial Federal Gub’mint knowing how to invest our money better than the private side.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/10/27/pm-amtrak/
More evidence that the Feds couldn’t make money with a lemonade stand.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
10:14 pm
Mike, we differ as to what is essential. And we differ as to labeling what we consider to be essential to be “evil.”
Yeah we probably do disagree on what is essential and what is essentially evil government that serves itself and the elite few. Don’t think I would shut down government but the evil GUB’MENT I’d kill-off would make the liberal socialists howl for a thousand years.
Michael H. Smith
May 15th, 2010
10:18 pm
Dave don’t be coy, it really doesn’t become you. I think you know exactly what I mean, so does most everyone else.
Craig
May 15th, 2010
10:26 pm
This is an important issue, and so I am disappointed in the quality of the reporting in this article. It seems like the AJC is running a hastily written op-ed as part one of a “special series”. MARTA and its riders deserve better than this. Given how readily the reporter makes several blunt recommendations that have important consequences, I wish he would do a better of job of developing his argument and considering alternative points-of-view. I am intrigued by the argument that MARTA should learn to live with its current size, but the “fact” that funding for public transportation is a “pipe dream” is a major news story and one that ATL could benefit from its major newspaper covering with greater intelligence and comprehensiveness.
Bob
May 15th, 2010
10:35 pm
How many MARTA employees make over $75,0000 a year?
justice
May 15th, 2010
10:51 pm
I’m a Georgia native and spent three months last year on a job in Chicago …. Chicago’s “El” subway system, great buses, and the Metra commuter trains makes me want to move back and give up driving in a heartbeat. I grew up in Columbus, and it felt like a community. Chicago felt like community. Atlanta metro doesn’t feel like one to me, it’s so dysfunctional.
VERITAS
May 15th, 2010
11:01 pm
According to this article MARTA financial issues go back to 1984, long before the Republicans had any power in this state.
Increase the cost to ride and be done with it. Its still a helluva lot cheaper to ride MARTA than to buy and operate a car.
Fred Garvin
May 15th, 2010
11:02 pm
if MARTA officials and Dekalb, Fulton officials honestly believe those who pay property, and income taxes will continue to pour money down a black hole they must be imbibing the Omamacoolaid. Hey, let’s see now if this makes sense—money going down the drain, not many riders (pants on the ground…) Yeah, right. I’ll take my kids on MARTA LOL
kingkool
May 15th, 2010
11:07 pm
Michael: My tax dollars go to paying roads that I will never use. You say half the marta buses are empty– I say half the roads in bartow county are empty too. But roads are important for overall economic development, same as mass transit. Its not wealth distribution, it is stimulating economic growth. Roads in georgia get much, much, much more gubment funding then marta. So if you want to complain about gubment funding, complain about the roads being built.
EX-employee
May 15th, 2010
11:24 pm
Marta was a well run company for twenty plus years. The pioneers who started the company were dedicated and proud of their accomplishments. Marta began to decline when they felt the need to bring in CEOS from other authorities to change the “culture” of Marta. Marta had a fleet of Hitachi and French cars that ran with few problems for many years. Instead of starting a refurbishing program with the proven cars of the afforementioned origin; the CEO at the time decided to purchase a fleet of Italian cars that had failed horribly in other systems. The CEO abruptly left Marta and rumor has it that he profited immensely because he was able to wine and dine the Board (which the chair person was a welfare tenant 2 terms) to purchase these cars that were flawed from the beginning. Had Marta entered into a contract with the Hitachi vendors, they would not have endured the years of problems with these flawed cars. The next CEO had a serious character flaw that further put Marta in a negative light. He was notoriously in the news for various driving infractions.The jury is still out on the current CEO but if the state doesn’t provide Marta with any funding she will be as ineffective as her predecessors. When Marta got away from internal developments and promotions a key component was lost. Morale was destroyed like it was at Delta when it went thru its struggles.Marta will survive. The next governor must get on board and not just stick his head in the sand and continue to build roads.Had Marta been allowed to expand into Cobb,Gwinett and Clayton counties instead of giving them federal dollars for their systems; we probably would not be having this discussion about the plight of Marta.
elreyjones
May 15th, 2010
11:25 pm
It is the africans who are the slave masters. Why are these racist african people always stealing from the working people. Pay your own way or go back to africa. Your welfare is our slavery. How many days a year must working people have to work to pay for these free rides. I’m a democrat but the democratic party is still a slave party. It steals from others and enslaves them to pay for free riders.
Byron Mathison Kerr
May 15th, 2010
11:33 pm
Kyle Wingfield @ 7:13 pm wrote:
“It should be clear as day that ‘relatively small’ (like ‘essential’) modifies ‘transportation role,’ and that I’m talking about all transportation, which encompasses but is not limited to mass transit.”
Again. The confusing term, for me, was “transit entity,” which I initially interpreted as “public transit entity” since this is an article about MARTA. And that’s what made the succeeding assertion seem ludicrous.
GaLiberal
May 15th, 2010
11:34 pm
First, to have a republiNazi shill do a serious report on MARTA is just nuts. There is no way MARTA can get an honest assessment. Second, MARTA has to stop serving two masters; a transportation system for the inner city poor and a commuting transit system for the urban wealthy. I ride MARTA everyday and marvel at the wasted opportunities for MARTA to become a better transit system. Keep the fare at $2.00 for the “core” systems say College Park to Lindberg (n/s) and all the stations east/west (no expansion there for over a decade). Surcharge for the airport ($3.00) and put as station charge on for all stations outside the core (say 0.25/station). If people don’t like it let them pay for a cab or drive to and from the airport. It will cost them more and take more time. MARTA must improve security on the trains. The complete lack of any transit cops means people can eat, play loud music, and generally be unpleasant without any fear of consequences. Add in the mix that it’s now LEGAL to carry your gun on MARTA (thanks to the republiNazi morons running the state) and you have a dangerous mix. I grant you that MARTA has serious challenges, but it is vital to the long term economic health of Atlanta and by extension the state. If not for Atlanta, GA would be nothing but a bunch of poor dirt farmers trying to scratch out a substandard living on a par with MS and LA. The state needs to recognize this FACT and start giving MARTA some assistance. The Democrats recognized this need when they were in control and MARTA was able to limp along. Now that the backward republiNazis have control,both Atlanta and MARTA are getting no help from the state even though both have to provide significant resources to the state, It’s time our legislators pulled their heads out of their butts and recognize what a mess they’ve made.
Chad
May 15th, 2010
11:40 pm
Michael H. Smith, It is difficult to take seriously someone who constantly uses “GUB’MENT.” Write like a grown-up.
I Can't Afford A Fare Increase
May 15th, 2010
11:53 pm
Dang how I laugh at all the transit riders that say they can’t afford a rate hike.
I ask, what would you r alternative be? Make the fare what it should be and
stop all the poor mouthing.
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
12:58 am
kingkool
May 15th, 2010
11:07 pm
I said what? Check your facts before typing what you think I said.
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
1:18 am
I Can’t Afford A Fare Increase
May 15th, 2010
11:53 pm
You and I both know what their alternative would be. You are right, which is my point, mass transit needs to charge more for the services they render and stop running to the taxpayers to bail them out. As long as BIG GUB’MENT – that one was just for you little Chad baby – runs the transit show taxpayers will always get screwed by some trumped-up mission for the poor, instead of operating a business in a mission to survive based on making at least enough money to pay expenses. But hey, I understand how the socialist liberals – Democrats who by votes with our money – think: Capitalism is an evil inhuman system and profit is a nasty word that should be ban by the FCC.
B-fan
May 16th, 2010
1:37 am
Having Kyle Wingfield write about MARTA is like having the fox write about the state of the henhouse. There are issues with MARTA, but couldn’t the AJC find someone less biased to do this report?
Froggy
May 16th, 2010
2:08 am
MARTA’s profound problems go back to its inception. As a well over middle-aged white male native Atlantan, I can attest that race has been an undercurrent since the referendum that (barely) passed creating it. Forget R’s and D’s, since back in the day there were practically no R’s in political office. MARTA’s viability was hamstrung from the beginning by Cobb, Gwinnett, etc. choosing not to join the system. And if you don’t think race was a monumental part of that resistance, you are dreaming. Crud, the owners of what was then known as Lenox Square opposed a MARTA station there — gee, I wonder why?
In its early days, MARTA trains were filled with middle class white collar folks commuting to downtown. Two things happened — more and more of those jobs moved out of the central city, never to return, and the stellar appearance and safety of MARTA facilities, a credit to the zeal of the first GM Allen Kiepper, deterioated. So MARTA management has to share plenty of blame.
We are the kind of city and region we choose to be. Ride Washington’s Metro, once considered a sister system to MARTA, during rush hour and you are nearly trampled to death by the immense volumes of riders. Happened to me last week. It’s crazy how busy it is. Why? Because long ago DC made it nearly impossible to commute in by car. Here, many employers (including several former ones of mine) have chosen to give downtown employees free or nearly free parking, and practically zero incentive to ride public transportation. It can actually be cheaper to drive.
I’m sure there’s been poor management and bad choices along the way, but MARTA’s core problems have to do with our region’s fundamental lack of commitment to public transportation. We massively subsidize road construction and airport construction (checked your airline ticket lately, and the huge fees that are charged?), but let’s expect MARTA to prosper without any support from the state or adjoining counties.
What is especially dispiriting about some of these comments is the complete lack of commitment to community they betray. Public transportation, like public schools, are inevitably described as inept, corrupt and part of evil government. For all those who feel no obligation to help solve Atlanta’s problems, or recognize their origins — please leave. You’re not fit to shine the shoes of the great men like Ivan Allen who actually worked and sacrificed to build a vibrant and exciting city. And, unless you are quite old, I was here first.
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
2:24 am
Someone less biased like Jay Bookman or Cynthia Tucker?
There sure are issues with MARTA: Beginning with it’s a government agency doing what a public private entity should be doing which charges fares in line with actually covering expenses.
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
2:36 am
We massively subsidize road construction and airport construction
That my friend is “proprietary infrastructure” which is a role government should serve. Owning railroads, buses and airlines in paying for a huge portion of the cost for people to get about to and fro isn’t a role government should serve.
I’m not exactly young and as to ones worth, well we do have our opinions now don’t we and I’m not going anywhere anytime soon.
PR
May 16th, 2010
4:13 am
MARTA is its own worst enemy. Its a joke for a city the size of Atlanta to have a mass transit system that only goes as far as I-285. If MARTA wants to succeed it needs to model itself after the DC METRO. Gwinett and Cobb County need to quit trying to protect their turf and stop being so pig-headed (and bigotted) and run the system out where it will help. Until eveyone in metro ATL works together to solve the traffic problem, and support MARTA, they can expect the daily commute to only get worse.
Chris Salzmann
May 16th, 2010
4:50 am
PR May 16th, 2010 4:13 am SAID: MARTA is its own worst enemy. Its a joke for a city the size of Atlanta to have a mass transit system that only goes as far as I-285. If MARTA wants to succeed it needs to model itself after the DC METRO. Gwinett and Cobb County need to quit trying to protect their turf and stop being so pig-headed (and bigotted) and run the system out where it will help. Until eveyone in metro ATL works together to solve the traffic problem, and support MARTA, they can expect the daily commute to only get
____________________________________________________________________________________
CHRIS SAYS: MARTA cannot expand to other counties because they refused to let is service residents INSIDE their counties and/or pay the $1 cent sales tax to help fund and operate it. That is entirely beyond MARTA’s control. The last couple of initiatives were turned down by both Gwinnett and Cobb counties. And since MARTA is the only mass transit system in the nation that receives not only NO state funding, but is also hamstrung by the state on how it can spend its revenues i.e. 50% of all revenues held back for capital projects, GA politicians have ensured that MARTA will remain a flawed system. Go to any MARTA parking deck and at least half the cars parked there will have license plates from the very counties that turned down MARTA. Ironic, isn’t it?
You talk to many conservatives in these counties and they’ll tell you that they don’t want MARTA in their counties because they’re afraid of crime. Yeah, I use MARTA and I don’t remember the last time I saw a burglar lugging a 42″ inch plasma and using MARTA as his getaway. Basically, they don’t want all them “colored” folks having easy access to their counties. Racist? Absolutely!!! I wouldn’t be surprised if Kyle fails to mention that little piece of reality here.
Bill
May 16th, 2010
4:58 am
I think MARTA needs to do well. How that gets accomplished exactly, I don’t know. All vibrant urban areas have good mass transit. How does San Francisco do it? Or Chicago? Or NYC? Is it not possible to emulate 1 of those type towns? The other thing I have been told is MARTA is run by blacks, for blacks. If you’re not black, forget about any management position or position of influence. This was told to me by my black friend who worked there for 8 years. If true, then this needs to stop; it’s counterproductive and from what I have read, is killing MARTA.
Maybe MARTA needs to be run by the state for a few years until it can correct it’s current financial and perception issues.
Chris Salzmann
May 16th, 2010
5:03 am
Michael H. Smith May 16th, 2010 2:24 am SAID: There sure are issues with MARTA: Beginning with it’s a government agency doing what a public private entity should be doing which charges fares in line with actually covering expenses.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
CHRIS SAYS: MARTA is unique in that it is by far the largest United States transit agency not to receive state operational funding. You think a private entity should be handling mass transit? Can you give any examples of what you propose in this country that is the same size and scope of MARTA? I don’t think so since my first sentence pretty much answers that question.
Would would you expect from a state run by rural hick politicians anyway?
eastbound and down
May 16th, 2010
7:35 am
When the good people of Ga stand up and ask the federal government to put an end to farm subsidies I could take all these idiotic statements about “socialism, socialist liberals,” a little more seriously. Also, Mr. Smith you need to work on your sentence structure. The use of the proper tense in a sentence could go a long way.
A CONSERVATIVE
May 16th, 2010
7:58 am
.. THERE IS NO FREE RIDE…JUST AS THERE IS NO FREE Lunch…your neighbor is paying for both your ride & your lunch when you don’t..There is no TOOTH FAIRY
Edward
May 16th, 2010
8:47 am
It must be a terrible challenge to face a world every morning where there exists people who can’t afford a new BMW or Mercedes. Why can’t those people serving your coffee and doing your laundry and mowing your lawn and cleaning your house at least have the decency to drive a nice luxury car so I don’t have to see those lumbering buses next to my beautiful new Bentley? Let the free market decide everything, I know I’ll support paying the white American woman $25/hour to mop my floors and that white American man at least $30/hour to blow the leaves out of my lawn.
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
9:16 am
Chris Salzmann
May 16th, 2010
5:03 am
Your biggest problem Chris Salzmann is you don’t think and obliviously choose no to read but when you do, you comprehend even less.
Chris Salzmann: You think a private entity should be handling mass transit?
My previous comment: There sure are issues with MARTA: Beginning with it’s a government agency doing what a public private entity should be doing which charges fares in line with actually covering expenses.
Chris, you are truly dumb.
eastbound and down
May 16th, 2010
7:35 am
While Mr. Smith is working on sentence structure, you might want to learn how to use abbreviation: It is GA not “Ga” .
Now do you want to talk more about taking something seriously?
Suburbanite
May 16th, 2010
9:23 am
Haven’t the voters of Cobb & Gwinnett repeatedly voted down MARTA expansion into those counties?
Why is MARTA’s “success” contingent on Cobb & Gwinnett? It can’t even break even for the area it was originally supposed to serve.
Keep the crime and gang bangers in the hood while those of us who work hard and want a better life for our families try to keep government intrusion at a minimum.
MH Brown
May 16th, 2010
9:40 am
To Michael H. Smith. You are an idiot. Are you really against government run transportation systems? I suppose you would be OK with every road, street and highway to be privately owned by the private landowner on which it runs? Driving from your McMansion in Nowhereville, Suburbia would cost a fortune in time and money as you negotiate toll after toll. Also the quality of the roads would be up to the land owner. “You don’t like my road,” one might say, “then take another.” No DOT to call and complain. I suppose you’d also like the floods that would result from the lack of storm drains and the floating garbage because there would be no government pick up of your trash or maintain sewers. Oh, you say you’d be happy to carry your garbage to the dump. Well, I don’t think your slacker neighbor’s garbage would not float by your house, too. You morons that say the government is the problem are always the ones who depend on it the most. All talk and no brains.
PDiddy
May 16th, 2010
9:53 am
This article has some pretty big factual errors and blatant omissions. How can you discuss MARTA’s situation without discussing the 50/50 split and other restrictions placed by the state? He also says MARTA faces a “$120 million budget hole,” which is not true. That figure was a projected shortage in operational funding for 2011, which is now drastically reduced because of the removal of the 50/50 provision. Towards the end of the article he talks about the transportation act and the 1 cent vote, saying people wont vote for any MARTA improvements because its a “sullied brand.” Problem is, if he knew anything about the bill, he would know it specifically says the tax can’t be spent on MARTA, so that’s not even an option.
Finally, a matter of opinion. He says “It’s time to stop assuming that MARTA itself can or should expand throughout the region.” This reveals his true intentions. He doesn’t believe MARTA should expand, even as traffic and air pollution get worse and worse.
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
9:56 am
Haven’t the voters of Cobb & Gwinnett repeatedly voted down MARTA expansion into those counties?
Yep.
Why is MARTA’s “success” contingent on Cobb & Gwinnett?
It really isn’t for the simple reason MARTA will never break even. You would think by now after years of empirical evidence a few brain dead people would catch on to the fact, MARTA is never going to be anything more than a two county mass transit money vacuum.
Keep government intrusion at a minimum?
I will gladly continue to beat the devil out of a growing government (size, scope and cost) day and night, until it is a lean, clean and mean governing machine with about a third of the GUB’MENT employees it has today and about half of the social socialist programs remaining in existence.
All I really need from government is law enforcement (the entire judiciary branch). For the most part the rest of government is collateral damage.
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
10:20 am
MH Brown you are the idiot and yes I am really against government run transportation systems.
Now get this Brown, you pea brain blowhard and the rest of you brain dead socialist liberals: Roads, rails, airways, rivers, streams and I would even go so far as to say pipeline lines and power lines are all what I consider to be “proprietary infrastructure”, which means the private sector should not control these things for reasons that should be very obvious to anybody, including this idiot Brownie.
Now did any of you nut jobs not understand my use of the term “proprietary infrastructure” which solely should be germane to government?
The private sector should pay government for the use and upkeep of its’ “proprietary infrastructure” anyone not clear on that point?
All goods and services delivered on or by the use of “proprietary infrastructure” should be germane to the private sector either as a for profit entity or in joint venture as a private public entity for profit or as nonprofit private public entity, which would suit the case of mass transit. Clear on that?
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
11:07 am
Not one liberal caught on to it did they? Bet alot of conservatives that read the meaning of the term “proprietary infrastructure” are ready to disown me.
I would even go so far as to say pipeline lines and power lines are all what I consider to be “proprietary infrastructure”
Until pipelines and power lines – which at the moment are private sector proprietary property – are nationalized – made solely germane to government as proprietary infrastructure - things like natural gas and electricity should never be deregulated because no real market competition can exist amongst a monopoly.
Now Brucie Wilcox you have my answer on the deregulation of natural gas.
JC
May 16th, 2010
11:38 am
Two Comments:
1. Cobb County last voted on MARTA in 1965. Gwinnett County last voted on MARTA in 1991.
2. For those of you who advocate distance based fares, it isn’t only those who live in North Fulton and are commuting downtown or going to the Airport that will get charged more, it will also be those who live in East DeKalb or South Fulton and work in North Fulton at the service level jobs who will also being paying more.
Reid in EAV
May 16th, 2010
12:29 pm
I generally identify largely with a libertarian strain of conservatism but they all seem to share this blind spot, and Kyle is no different. Why the endless scrutiny of transit while auto-oriented infrastructure gets a free pass? Since when have our roads ever paid for themselves? How about some critique of the way we’ve subsidized our current sprawling existence? How many millions does a lane/mile cost, and what would that same money get you in alternate modes? And how about our socialized, non-market-priced freeways?
Until I hear that coming from the mouth of a so-called “conservative critic,” I will elect to ignore every thing you deign to say about transit or MARTA. If you expect me to line up with your (generally admirable) set of principles, you need to apply them consistently. If not, you’re no conservative; you’re just another worthless partisan.
And this is the sound of me writing you off.
CJ
May 16th, 2010
12:38 pm
If you’re out there Kyle, it would very helpful if you would offer a reasonable justification for state imposed limitations on MARTA’s access to available monies for funding current operations.
Not A MARTA Fan
May 16th, 2010
12:58 pm
Go Away MARTA……you’re not SMARTA…..It’s run by the same kind of people who run our School Systems and look at what’s happening to them….the only thing that will save it is proper management and that ain’t never gonna happen in this century.
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
1:43 pm
Libertarians are not conservatives. Like wise on ignoring what you inaccurately have said.
katheryn pittman
May 16th, 2010
2:02 pm
A city this LARGE and there is not a viable transportation system!? Unbelievable!! They want to call itself a “metropolis” or a progressive city, What a joke!! I don’t understand why someone that lives OUTSIDE the city is able to vote on what is BEST for the people that live in that CITY! Atlanta is a beautiful city, I love all the old charm mix with the newness, and I pray the city never looses that, you can always mix the two, BUT there has to be a way to get to several places(transpotation). If this is the meca of the south there should be a hospital and transit system funded by the STATE!!! Maybe the transit system can rent out the moblity buses to families for long trips, handicapped and senior would be able to travel and marta can make extra money. This is so sad, the transit system would even have to entertain this ideal!
Froggy
May 16th, 2010
2:37 pm
It’s hard to take seriously the rantings of someone who thinks “like wise” is two words. MHS, it appears your home schooling failed you.
Georgian
May 16th, 2010
2:46 pm
Let those that use and benefit from MARTA pay for it ! If it can’t pay its bills, reduce service and raise fares !
Steve
May 16th, 2010
2:47 pm
There are many great public transportation systems up north and in Europe. The problem with MARTA is that it’s in The South.
Chris Salzmann
May 16th, 2010
3:15 pm
Suburbanite May 16th, 2010 9:23 am SAID: Keep the crime and gang bangers in the hood while those of us who work hard and want a better life for our families try to keep government intrusion at a minimum.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
CHRIS SAYS: Typical of the ignorant and racist attitudes that have kept Georgia a backward state and why mass transit will never succeed in this state. BTW, those “gangbangers” and other people in the “hood” have cars.
Chris Salzmann
May 16th, 2010
3:21 pm
Froggy May 16th, 2010 2:37 pm SAID: It’s hard to take seriously the rantings of someone who thinks “like wise” is two words. MHS, it appears your home schooling failed you.
___________________________________________________________________________________
CHRIS SAYS: LMAO! Good point!
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
3:22 pm
Froggy
May 16th, 2010
2:37 pm
Froggy, take it anyway you want. Your foolishness isn’t worth a warm bucket of spit.
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
3:24 pm
More worthless stupidity from Chris Salzmann.
Chris Salzmann
May 16th, 2010
3:34 pm
Michael H. Smith May 16th, 2010 3:24 pm SAID: More worthless stupidity from Chris Salzmann.
__________________________________________________________________________________
CHRIS SAYS: Sticks & stones. If that’s all you can come up with, then you Libertarians need to go back to school……………..
Chris Salzmann
May 16th, 2010
3:37 pm
Georgian May 16th, 2010 2:46 pm SAID: Let those that use and benefit from MARTA pay for it ! If it can’t pay its bills, reduce service and raise fares !
_____________________________________________________________________________________
CHRIS SAYS: That’s not how Mass Transit works. Here’s an example of your logic in action i.e. I don’t have kids so why should my taxes be used to benefit schools in my district? In fact, my taxes should be cut since I don’t have kids. That’s what you are essentially saying. Think about it…………………..
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
3:38 pm
katheryn pittman, where the penny tax to support MARTA was voted on by Cobb and Gwinnett Counties is concerned the citizens were voting on what they felt was BEST for them and they chose not to become part of MARTA. They did not chose anything for City of Atlanta.
This next vote for the penny tax will not be going to fund MARTA as I understand it, so again no one is choosing anything for MARTA or the City of Atlanta.
I’ll not vote in favor of this new penny tax initiative for the simple reason the State has no statewide comprehensive rapid rail mass transit plan and no plans to fund one in a joint private public venture.
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
3:54 pm
Chris Salzmann, should go back to school to learn the difference between Conservatives and Libertarians.
Libertarians are socio-economic “classical liberals” they are on the “corporatist left side” of your “socialist left side” dummy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
Chris Salzmann
May 16th, 2010
3:59 pm
Steve May 16th, 2010 2:47 pm SAID: There are many great public transportation systems up north and in Europe. The problem with MARTA is that it’s in The South.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
CHRIS SAYS: You might have hit the nail on the head. The first mistake was to make MARTA operation contingent on individual counties. There should be a state wide sales tax to fund mass transit that is not just confined to Atlanta, but to all larger metro areas. In fact, the state benefits from having MARTA since operating a mass transit system enables the state to collect billions in federal subsidies. Unfortunately, MARTA does not see a penny of these subsidies. Mass transit, when properly funded and operated, has the proven benefit of reducing pollution, congestion and attracting investment. Unfortunately, the rural politicians that run Georgia, don’t see it that way.
Chris Salzmann
May 16th, 2010
4:02 pm
Michael H. Smith May 16th, 2010 3:54 pm SAID: Chris Salzmann, should go back to school to learn the difference between Conservatives and Libertarians.
____________________________________________________________________________________
CHRIS SAYS: I know the difference. What makes you think I don’t? Maybe you should start by pointing that out.
Reality
May 16th, 2010
4:09 pm
For those who complain that MARTA does go where people want to go: MARTA (the trains) travel parallel to freight lines that were in place when MARTA was planned and built except for the stretch of tunnel under Peachtree St. The rail system was designed that way because acquiring right of way was less expensive. Also, constructing the system that way meant less interruption.
Reality
May 16th, 2010
4:10 pm
Ooos! I meant does not go where people want to go.
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
4:15 pm
Chris Salzmann, if you did actually have the intelligence to know the difference you would not call me a Libertarian.
How many times have I stated the capitalism in this country is “regulated” and is not a libertarian “laissez-faire” capitalist economy?
How many times have I spoken against open borders, which Libertarians advocate?
How many times have I spoken against so-called “Free Trade” which Libertarians advocate?
Michael H. Smith
May 16th, 2010
4:26 pm
Reality
May 16th, 2010
4:09 pm
Well damn, at least somebody finally sees what I’ve pointed out so many times before it pains even me to regurgitate the oratory once again.
Reality, the existing rail lines in Georgia connects virtually every town and city in this State. There is no “somewhere” you cannot go if these rials or the rights of way were expanded and used for mass transit rapid rial. When I said the State has no statewide rapid rail plan I was correct because they once had such a plan but not anymore. Forget the smallness of MARTA go for the gusto think big act big. MARTA needs to dissolve into the bigger statewide picture.
MoveAllRapidlyThruAtlanta
May 16th, 2010
8:22 pm
Kyle, you know what MARTA stands for? It’s the old and no longer relevant “Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta”, but still relevant in the minds of all (including you perhaps?) who detest the idea of poor black people having mobility. Get beyond this image and maybe this transit system can become regional (75 miles or more end to end in 6 or more directions from downtown Atlanta ?). By the way, most of the black folks and other people of color you grapple with are now in the suburbs. They might not ride anyway since they have their own wheels. Surprised?
DirtyDawg
May 16th, 2010
8:35 pm
Well I’ve waited all afternoon and evening for a post that I made earlier to appear…but alas, no. Seems that my criticisms of Mr.Wingfield must have gone over the line, or hit a nerve at least. Or perhaps it was that I had called the AJC, and Cox Enterprises out for allowing themselves to degenerate into just another element in the rightwing echo chamber – don’t believe it? Check out the, once proud, WSB Radio’s day-time lineup. Every article about MARTA seems to look for a critical or negative slant, and as for Boortz’s – you can’t spell Boortz without ‘boor’ you know – opinion of anything of color, well we all know the answer to that one.
MARTA has been hamstrung by a draconian funding system, unlike any in the country and so long as a prejudiced, Republican, Governor’s office and/or Legislature is in charge, it will always be so.
Again, and probably only to serve to have my post banned once more, I say again that if John E. Drewry were aware of the politics of the person that they awarded his medal to, he’d stop spinning only long enough to get it yanked…and whoever at the Henry W. Grady School of Journalism is responsible for making the selection, should be ashamed that they picked a facilitator of rightwing talking points and fired.
grizzybear
May 17th, 2010
10:08 am
there is no rail system in this country that operates efficiently, they all lose billions of dollars. marta is run by inefficient people. quit giving out all the free passes, and then maybe things might turn around. emory university has a very efficient bus service that does not operate on federal taxpayers money, so why marta?
DirtyDawg
May 17th, 2010
10:52 am
Hey grizzybear….Emory has one of the largest endowments of any school in the country – Billions and billions, and most of it donated by Coke heirs and other ‘richuns’ (to quote Jed Rink) – and it’s ‘transit’ system is also free to residents in the Emory/Druid Hills area…and it’s all paid for by the school – oh by the way, Emory also has about the highest tuition in the country as well. You too could run ‘efficiently’ with Woodruff/Chandler money. By the way, if it’s not paid for strictly by the riders, then it’s ’subsidized’ you idiot.
Every public transit system in the nation, and probably the world, requires government, or private, subsidies to operate. MARTA has been hamstrung, from the beginning, by a funding system that’s driven by racial prejudice that, at best, has morphed into any number of other labels – inefficient, incompetent, corrupt, lazy, ignorant…and, the most recent, ‘human pieces of fecal matter’ – but it’s all racist and this site, and I must assume AJC logger-oners, is dominated by them. Shame on you and the people that allow you to spout your vile without challenge.
Jefferson
May 17th, 2010
11:12 am
I laugh at people like Smith who think they know it all, hope they are mad too. Bet he can’t resist making a comment either.
Horrible Horrace
May 17th, 2010
12:26 pm
buycott.com
NetBanker
May 17th, 2010
3:00 pm
My impression is that those who disparage public transportation because they’ll never ride it forget that they too receive a benefit by getting all those people who do ride off the road. It also allows students to get to classes thus educating the next generation as well as enabling people to get to jobs so they can pay income taxes and have money to put into the economy.
One other thing to consider with public transportation and an improved national rail system is our own desire to stop giving money to oil producing countries who financially support the terror groups who hate us. Train travel (be it heavy rail, light rail, street cars) is the most energy efficient way to move people and goods. If we had a better rail system then we could reduce our need for foreign oil and gasoline.
Disgusted…you must not know the history of MARTA. It wasn’t designed to stop at the perimeter, but that is where it stopped because the people who lived OTP didn’t want MARTA coming to their neighborhoods. They were afraid it would bring crime from the city. The original design had rail lines running out 75/85/20 in the median which was paved over in favor of more lanes instead.
rdh
May 17th, 2010
3:10 pm
Divide MARTA’s deficit by their ridership, and you get a fare increase of 80 cents per ride.
Problem solved.
MARTA is unwilling to make their ridership pay another $1.60 per day, but would be glad to let the taxpayers of Toccoa, Albany, St. Mary’s and Dalton, and the rest of rural Georgia, subsidize their budget.
NetBanker
May 17th, 2010
3:58 pm
“MARTA is unwilling to make their ridership pay another $1.60 per day, but would be glad to let the taxpayers of Toccoa, Albany, St. Mary’s and Dalton, and the rest of rural Georgia, subsidize their budget.”
Since the MARTA served area (aka Atlanta area) subsidizes Toccoa, Albany, St. Mary’s, and Dalton with state tax revenues why shouldn’t those areas help fund the transportation system that allows residents to earn and spend money thus ensuring the flow of tax dollars out of Atlanta (i.e. MARTA territory) to them?
Michael H. Smith
May 17th, 2010
4:19 pm
It is I who is doing the laughing Jefferson. MARTA and those who support it are the ones who are crying and angry because they can’t get any money from people like me to pay for their GUB’MENT rides and their GUB’MENT union jobs. Of course there is always the pitiful little lost attack puppies like you with nothing else better to do that can’t resist spouting off some lame drivel to boost their low self-esteem that adds nothing but a few more bytes of useless keystrokes to occupy empty server space.
End of the day MARTA gets no money, I keep my money and you… well, who really cares what you get or get off on. Now I’m laughing even harder.
Jefferson
May 17th, 2010
4:49 pm
Read like a book.
Blog is getting old Kyle did you hire Smith?
May 17th, 2010
5:08 pm
Enter your comments here
Michael H. Smith
May 17th, 2010
5:16 pm
I don’t work cheap, Kyle.
Peter
May 17th, 2010
5:52 pm
Conservatives are not conservative at all…….they just spend more money on guns and War then other folks.
Michael H. Smith
May 17th, 2010
6:20 pm
Let me see now, since 1900…
WW I – Woodrow Wilson socialist liberal Democrat
WW II – Franklin Roosevelt socialist liberal Democrat
Korean War – Harry Truman liberal Democrat
Viet Nam War – Lyndon Johnson socialist liberal Democrat
Gulf War I – George H.W. Bush moderate conservative Republican.
Afghanistan and Iraq War – George W. Bush liberal Republican.
Yep, liberals do tend to lie.
samuel
May 17th, 2010
6:48 pm
I find it remarkable that MARTA is the 9th largest transit system in the country despite its limited reach. In New York, you can take the Long Island Railroad more than 120 miles from Penn Station to Montauk. Even In South Florida, you can take the Tri-Rail commuter train 70 miles from Miami to West Palm Beach.
Just about every transit system that’s bigger than MARTA is running a budget deficit, in some cases (such as in New York), in the billions of dollars. Since all transit systems in this country are paid for with sales and/or property taxes, and those tax receipts decline when the economy is weak, major transit systems have budget deficits. It really is the economy. When it get humming again, things should get better for transit, as it will for the rest of the country.
I have been to cities of similar size to Atlanta (Sydney, Hong Kong, Madrid and Barcelona) that have much larger transit systems. If Cobb, Gwinnett or Clayton county had approved MARTA 40 – or even 20 years ago – we would have a much larger system than we have now. The crime problems those 3 counties are having now have nothing to do with MARTA. Thugs have cars too.
Finally, the purpose of mass transit is not to make a profit or go out of business, as so many conservatives believe. It’s to provide a service to the people in a city or metroplolitan area, because not everyone is old enough to drive, some people are disabled and some people simply can’t afford cars. I have lived in the city of Atlanta my entire life and I’ve never owned a car. Indeed, I’ve been a MARTA rider for 34 years. But I have also traveled extensively and ridden some of the world’s great transit systems, including the London Underground, the Paris Metro, the Mass Transit Railway in Hong Kong and the Tokyo Metro. I can say without hesitation that I am not missing a thing because I don’t own a car, and I don’t envy those who spend their lives making car payments. Mass transit is an essential part of the urban experience and those who disparage it are extemely provincial and could stand to get out and see more of the world.
Special series: Ending 50-50 split is no salvation for MARTA | Kyle Wingfield
May 17th, 2010
7:26 pm
[...] This is the second in a special series examining MARTA. Read Part 1 here. Part 3 will be posted Tuesday [...]
StevenCee
May 18th, 2010
5:40 pm
Kyle, I think it would be far more intellectually honest to first create your premises on solid ground, rather than just your opinion. Most major, functional cities, in America, and the world, have robust public transportation, Atlanta doesn’t and all attempts to create it (over the last 30-40 years) have been obstructed, and YES Kyle, due primarily to racism!
Ask older folk in Cobb, & other surrounding counties, & most of the honest ones will tell you this is fact. I’ve heard people say so, and that they now realize (as they face horrendous gridlock) they were wrong to do so. I grew up in Chicago, & took public transportation to school, baseball games, museums, etc, even as a 10/11 year-old kid, didn’t need my parents clogging the roadways driving me everywhere, and so did all my friends. We didn’t have the mindset that only “poor” or “colored” folk take the bus or train, no, even businessmen making six-figure incomes road into the city on commuter trains. But here, that is the unfortunate stereotype, & I dare you to try and refute that fact, and it has only been the current wave of joblessness & reduced incomes, that has led even the non-poor or black to seek an alternative to burning dollars sitting in gridlocked freeways!
Had Georgia & its legislators (& yes, BOTH Democrats & Republicans) dropped their old racist & anti-Atlanta attitudes, and been forward-thinking & visionary (& really, I was here in the mid-70s, and we already saw in LA, the decrease in quality of life massive sprawl creates, so we could very easily & EXPONENTIALLY CHEAPER, have created a state of the art mass transit system, one that would be a magnet for growth, but in a more managed way!
Special series: MARTA, not slump, put MARTA in red | Kyle Wingfield
May 18th, 2010
6:40 pm
[...] This is the third in a special series examining MARTA. Read Part 1 here and Part 2 here. The final part will be posted Wednesday [...]
Special series: MARTA put itself in red before recession hit | Kyle Wingfield
May 18th, 2010
6:54 pm
[...] This is the third in a special series examining MARTA. Read Part 1 here and Part 2 here. The final part will be posted Wednesday [...]
mtanoct
May 19th, 2010
12:14 pm
I am sick of this political/racial vent mess I am reading. So you all have vented. NOW we come up with some solutions instead of the racial bagging, political posturing and MARTA bashing I have seen for years and years.
I will provide a few starting from the least of things. For those who would like to ride a ’safe’ train line, should the agency have an additional police on the trains and at least two officers (from the local police) at each station? Tell me if that solution would be good?
Now to the price of using the system: Having one fare is nice, if MARTA went to a distance-based fare system, that would not deter me from using the system. It will provide some relief to the agency’s issues…but what else can the agency do? (Think before you answer, don’t just VENT anymore). By the way, I wish someone would read what is going on in D.C. and ask yourself, would you like there scenario…
Public Transportation is a Public Service: Police, Fire and EMS are emergency services are public services well and do not make a profit. So I wonder why we fuss about public transportation so much…when there is not a peep about when additional money is needed for those other items. Granted, there is a need for it, and I understand that if list those services in order of priority, Public Transit would be last.
Those three services are paid for in most cases with property taxes (from your homes and a portions of the rents in apartment complexes –which is not seen by the naked eyes but its there).
But residents and visitors alike all go out and buy something, and a small portion of their costs go to the sales tax that is used currently for public transportation — just as residents and visitors alike pump gas at gas stations across the country and that is used as best as it can for roadways and bridges. So why in the world are we complaining. Really. Just be glad that you do not get a bill every month stating you owe 200 dollars for your daily commute or better yet a bill every month to pay for all the true transportation needs out there. Now that would be pure blackmail for every resident!
Special series: A lesson on frugality for MARTA from out West | Kyle Wingfield
May 19th, 2010
6:53 pm
[...] This concludes a special series examining MARTA. Read Part 1 here, Part 2 here or Part 3 [...]
Dave from GT
May 22nd, 2010
5:48 pm
1977……. FARTA; nothing has changed!
Soapbox: Privatizing MARTA makes no sense | Fresh Loaf
June 4th, 2010
11:02 am
[...] May, the AJC’s Kyle Wingfield penned a multi-part opinion series about MARTA’s financial woes. One possible solution the conservative [...]
MARTA’s response to my series | Kyle Wingfield
June 9th, 2010
9:56 am
[...] promised, here is MARTA’s response to my series of columns about the transit agency: its perennial budgetary problems, false hope in ending the 50-50 restriction on its sales-tax revenues, out-of-control spending even [...]
Michael
August 10th, 2010
8:15 pm
I don’t see how in the world Atlanta expect to be a international city with such shabby transit. Wake up Atlantans your political crap and games means nothing on the global level. Im sure Charlotte, NC and Dallas, TX appreciates Atlanta and Georgia passive transportation attitude, as they continue to rack up new headquarter that look over Atlanta, because of traffic. Atlanta it’s time for a new makeover, and not just Marta.