Catching up — AZ immigration, Ray Boyd and the GA GOP
I’m back blogging after a week away from it, although the pace may remain somewhat light this week as I continue working on a special project that should roll out this weekend or early next week.
In any case, I wanted to weigh in quickly on a few things:
1. Arizona’s new immigration law
I have lived in a country (Belgium) where the police can stop you at any time, with no discernible cause, and ask to see your “papers.” It is an unnerving feeling, even for those people who are present perfectly legally and have nothing to fear. It makes you nervous even to pass a policeman, who without such a requirement would have no reason to stop you as you walked past him on the sidewalk.
In the case of a foreign-born resident — again, even a legal foreign-born resident — you are required to carry documents which you greatly fear losing because of the time, hassle and even difficulty involved in obtaining them. For instance, I technically was supposed to have my passport with me at all times to accompany my Belgian ID card (a national ID card itself is an odious thing, but that’s another topic). But replacing my passport while overseas, if I were to lose it or have it stolen from me, would have been a lengthy ordeal, not to mention that it would have left me unable to return to the U.S. until the new one arrived. So, the vast majority of the time I took the chance that no one would stop me. But I also knew that I was unlikely to be stopped, even though most any Belgian officer on the street probably could have easily recognized me as a foreigner.
In short, I don’t think “Your papers, please” fits in a free society.
All that said, however, I consider this new law less an indictment of the Arizona government than of the federal government’s failure, across multiple administrations and Congresses under the control of Republicans and Democrats alike, to deal properly with its core responsibility to secure the borders.
While Washington has been delving into matters that are not its core functions — revamping the health-care system, for instance — the immigration problem has been exploding. The recession has eased some of the pressure, but if a recovery is truly under way, we can expect the migration problem to ramp back up.
I am not a restrictionist or nativist; I generally favor expanding the number of ways foreign workers can enter the country legally — preferably for the short term, and in tune with our economic needs. But we must have control over our borders before we can do that in any rational sort of way. And absent effective federal measures to secure the borders, it is wholly predictable for the states most burdened by illegals to take matters into their own hands.
I happen to think this move could provoke a backlash among legal residents that Arizonans will end up regretting. But the “irresponsibility” here, contra President Obama, is on the part of the feds.
2. Ray Boyd and the Georgia GOP
For a political novice, Boyd has found a way to get more “earned media” than most of the veterans in Georgia’s gubernatorial race. But his grandstanding about the state GOP’s loyalty oath makes him, not the party, look unreasonable.
A governor is effectively the head of his or her state party. Fair or not, a party as a whole is held responsible for the actions of its members. If a candidate wants to run with that brand, why wouldn’t the party want to protect that brand? And the GOP oath itself is pretty tame: “I do hearby swear or affirm my allegiance to the Georgia Republican Party.” Rather than wonder why the state GOP has such an oath, one almost marvels instead that the Democrats feel comfortable not having some similar declaration.
If Boyd wants to run against the way the state and the GOP have been led, then running as a Republican probably isn’t the way to go about it. He can still get on the ballot as an independent, so this isn’t really an access issue.
And here’s a thought: If Boyd truly wanted to take on the establishment, he might have tried to qualify as a Libertarian. What better way to raise the profile of a third party than to hold a gubernatorial primary? Think of the additional attention the eventual Libertarian nominee would get, compared to the way it is now. (Free blog subscription for the first reader who can name at least two Libertarian nominees without the aid of Google.)
It’s too late for this year — the Libertarians held their convention last weekend — but would-be renegades might want to file that away for future years.
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97 comments Add your comment
Keep up the good fight!
April 27th, 2010
10:42 am
Ummm Kyle…. your point is that yes “papers please” is a line in every Nazi movie and should not be a part of this country but somehow after Bush and others failed to deal with illegal immigration, it now is Obama’s fault and justified? Somehow the state’s have rights to ignore freedom and the constitution if it is “justified” by a purported lack of federal action?
jconservative
April 27th, 2010
10:50 am
I completely agree with your coments on the AZ bill. This bill is most “Un-American” as we called it in the 1950’s. Smacks of the Kremlin.
My wife is an immigrant from a “tolitarian dictatorship” country. Her father brought his family to the US when my wife was five. We still have her “papers”. Even as a five year old she was required to have her “papers” with her at all times. To see this in a US state is sad.
And touching on the subject, the immediate reason my father in law decided to leave the dictatorship was his 8 year old son coming home with a new history textbook that had changed the history of the country.
Changed the history to better reflect the goals of the dictoreship. It reminds me to the current Texas school board attempting to change the history books for Texas school children.
Kyle Wingfield
April 27th, 2010
10:52 am
Keep up, maybe you should spend more than a few seconds skimming the post before you comment on it. I specifically said the feds’ lack of action extends “across multiple administrations and Congresses under the control of Republicans and Democrats alike.” This certainly is a long-time problem.
That said, Obama has been in office for 15 months and gotten several big pieces of legislation passed. Immigration reform could have been one of them. The expiration date for blaming Bush is coming up soon, if it hasn’t already passed.
jconservative
April 27th, 2010
10:56 am
If Boyd wants to run as an Independent I will gladly sign his petition to get his name on the ballot. I always welcome new voices. And the other Republicans are “incumbent” types and I am not a supporter of any Incumbent. If you need to make a living, go out and get a real job.
Kyle Wingfield
April 27th, 2010
10:57 am
As for “justified,” that’s your word, not mine. I said “predictable.”
Keep up the good fight!
April 27th, 2010
10:58 am
Wow…an expiration date…so when did that apply to Clinton?
I read the post…but your conclusion points a finger toward Obama and now you say Obama should have dealt with this in a different priority rather than some of the other acts. Bush had 8 years and was rejected by his own party. Give Obama his 8 years and I think he will get to…successfully. The problem is one of many he was left and perhaps if the economy had not tanked, it would have been addressed already in all fairness.
We do agree that this is not the way. I just dont think there is “justification” for this act. It is horrendous.
Keep up the good fight!
April 27th, 2010
11:00 am
Okay…I’ll give you “predictable” as your word….I dont necessarily agree. But in no event is it justified or acceptable. Those are my words. I wont make them yours.
iRun
April 27th, 2010
11:07 am
I don’t know…the whole tone and language of this blog post glosses over placing blame where it is truly due.
And saying something is predictable sounds a whole lot like you saw this was coming and since you never acted to prevent it, warn against it, or demand for it’s reversal you appear to be comfortable with it.
That’s the impression from this reader.
david wayne osedach
April 27th, 2010
11:11 am
What happens if most – if not all – illegal immigrants pack up and leave Arizona?
RJ
April 27th, 2010
11:13 am
Last night I was watching the news and there wa a Democrat and a Republican debating the AZ law. The Democract said that the law allows the police to question people without cause. The Republican said that would be racial profiling and isn’t allowed under this new law.
Thanks guys. Way to go in your quest to agree on what reality is.
Kyle Wingfield
April 27th, 2010
11:19 am
iRun: I said it was predictable for states to take matters into their own hands — although exactly how that might happen was probably not predictable. But I’m curious to know where you think the blame is truly due.
david wayne: Good question.
iRun
April 27th, 2010
11:23 am
Kyle,
I don’t really think there’s a problem so I am not prepared to play a blame game. Well, NOW there’s a problem in Arizona. They’ve turned their police force into an unwilling Gestapo.
Port O' John
April 27th, 2010
11:40 am
The expiration date for blaming Bush has passed?
I seem to recall Bush and the GOP blaming Clinton for everything well into his second term. A bit of a double-standard Kyle?
I’m shocked.
LEGAL Immigration Supporter, ILLEGAL Immigration Hater
April 27th, 2010
11:56 am
SEAL THE BORDER, and GO, BRAVES!!
scrappy
April 27th, 2010
12:04 pm
Nice to see a conservative call the AZ bill how it is – thanks for an honest opinion and not just going party line. Wish we could here more in the media.
YardDawg
April 27th, 2010
12:07 pm
I just don’t get that some people either don’t understand or choose to ignore the word ‘illegal.’
This path was pursued by the State of Arizona only because the federal government has refused to enforce one of its basic duties over the last 20 years.
We are doomed to repeat history if we don’t learn from it. we have had amnesty programs in the past, but never turned off the faucet to stop the flow. Well guess what, the bucket fills up again and will continue to do so. I am a Conservative and a fan of the Tea Party, but I also realize the important role that the citizens of Mexico and beyond provide a valuable asset to our economy. In fact as a business person I have personally seen the positive role people here illegally play in our workforce. The people here illegally are for the most part very hard working with great family values. And they would gladly jump through a few hoops for the privledge of becoming a legal US citizen. All that have worked for me or around me have said they would gladly pay a fine and go through a probation period.
It is not feasible either logistically or financially to send the people here illegally home. I support a ‘path to citizenship’ but only with a strong effort to close the faucet or we will be right back to this same place 5 years from now. Anybody with any sense can see this.
Kyle Wingfield
April 27th, 2010
12:34 pm
LEGAL immigration supporter: That second comment was beyond inappropriate. I’m sure there are forums for those kinds of “ideas,” but this isn’t one of them. You’re off the blog until further notice.
thebob.bob
April 27th, 2010
12:34 pm
You will carry your papers at all times. You will swear allegiance to The Party. You will wear flag pins to demonstrate you patriotism and, when required by The Party, hang the National Flag. If you are accused of “supporting” an organization that our political appointees (all good Christians from Party approved undergraduate and law schools) declare a “terrorist” organization, you can be held in special prisons and be subjected to “enhanced interrogation”. This is true even if you are a citizen.
Welcome to America according to GW Bush and the Republican Party. Like it so far???
Kyle Wingfield
April 27th, 2010
12:35 pm
Btw, before someone asks: I’m talking about a comment that I’ve taken down, not the part about the Braves. Although after a few more games like last night’s, pro-Braves comments may also be verboten…
Jefferson
April 27th, 2010
12:44 pm
Arizona is full of loons. Georgia is too.
YardDawg
April 27th, 2010
12:52 pm
@Jefferson: I assume you are including yourself in that generalization.
I think everyone would agree that California might win your little contest.
Junior Samples
April 27th, 2010
12:53 pm
Kyle,
Which administration do you find at fault here?
GM
April 27th, 2010
12:54 pm
This law won’t survive the 1st lawsuit.
JKL2
April 27th, 2010
12:59 pm
I thought the Dems were all for a national ID?
I think this is like all the conspiracy theorist out there who think the government has nothing better to do than listen to your phone calls. Unless there is a problem, the police have better things to do than find people to hassle.
Agent Moulder
April 27th, 2010
1:07 pm
JKL2,
They are listening. Maybe you’ve heard of the Patriot Act?
Kyle Wingfield
April 27th, 2010
1:07 pm
I don’t think this is an either/or issue, Junior Samples.
Junior Samples
April 27th, 2010
1:10 pm
I don’t think you answered the question. Keep dancing around it, nobody will notice…
YardDawg
April 27th, 2010
1:11 pm
Actually Obama has spoken in support for a national ID.
YardDawg
April 27th, 2010
1:15 pm
Junior, generally speaking both parties are at fault. Both parties don’t want to piss off businesses by shutting off the supply of cheap labor. Remember those businesses contribute mightly to political campaigns. Both parties also want to desparately lay claim to the hispanic voting block. So to answer your sarcastic question: it is both sides of the isle. As usual I all boils down to power and money.
96 SC
April 27th, 2010
1:23 pm
I completely agree with your assessment of the AZ Legislation and I strongly suggest that the FED’s immediately place members of the Military to protect all entry points to our GREAT NATION. Troops can be redeployed from the USA’s Asian and European Outposts. Protect the USA first and allow other Nations to do likewise. Are our Foreign Military Outposts intended to PROTECT AMERICAN FREEDOMS or simply being used as TOOLS of INTIMIDATION for CORPORATE AMERICA?
JKL2
April 27th, 2010
1:24 pm
Moulder-
Obama has gone way past anything in the Patriot Act. They are trying to get every twitter ever sent to keep as a “national archive”. Sounds a little more like infringing your rights than just listening to a few phone calls made to terrorist nations doesn’t it?
Charles
April 27th, 2010
1:26 pm
“Free blog subscription for the first reader who can name at least two Libertarian nominees without the aid of Google.”
Subscription or not, here’s the answer:
Bob Barr (of Georgia) and Wayne Allen Root were both Libertarian nominees. They got the party nod for President and VP 2008
Junior Samples
April 27th, 2010
1:27 pm
Immigration will always be an issue. It has always been an issue. A century ago it was an issue. So why the diversion now?
Isn’t there another reform bill up for debate?
Something about our finacial system(s)?
You’re right, it does boil down to power and money…
JKL2
April 27th, 2010
1:30 pm
96 SC-
They are staging areas for other overseas operations and agreements to protect other countries. Some could be cut but many are good resources for various agencies. We would go alot further if we stopped funding the UN and Nato and merely paid our fair share of those organizations instead of funding the whole thing.
Disgusted
April 27th, 2010
1:31 pm
SEAL THE BORDER, and GO, BRAVES!!
The border can never be really sealed, barring the institution of a police state much worse than that feared as a result of the Arizona law. We waste billions of dollars on easily evaded fences and border patrol agents, all the while we ignore the real source of the illegal immigration problem.
Why do illegal immigrants come here? The answer is that most can acquire jobs rather easily. Yet, we do nothing to create a national database of legal citizens, nor is employment law really enforced, except for a few token, well publicized cases. The truth is that many contractors and some shady corporations, eager to scratch out the last few pennies of profit, will willingly violate or ignore the law regarding employment.
Use the resources now going to useless fences and border patrols to enforce rigidly the existing laws regarding employment and the illegal immigration problem will go away. Otherwise, the entire wink-and-nod system will continue to be an opportunity for political grandstanding.
Kyle Wingfield
April 27th, 2010
1:33 pm
I meant current nominees, Charles, but I tell you what — you can have a free blog subscription, too
Seriously, though, I wonder what you and others think about a Libertarian primary, for governor at the very least. It could be expensive, but I wonder whether it would pay for itself in the added attention it would generate.
Just an (admittedly not totally thought out) idea.
Junior: Surely you’re not suggesting that no one thought immigration was an issue until Arizona started debating this particular law. Harry Reid must have thought it was an issue when he said the Senate would get to immigration reform this year…but then backtracked…and is now trying to bring it up again.
So, maybe there is someone who’s just playing politics with this issue.
Jefferson
April 27th, 2010
1:33 pm
A hit dawg will hollar.
Agent Moulder
April 27th, 2010
1:36 pm
JKL2,
You’re afraid of a Twitter archive? Really?
You’re not concerned about the government tapping phones, but tweet tapping has got your attention?
YardDawg
April 27th, 2010
1:44 pm
or bite.
William J. Clinton
April 27th, 2010
1:45 pm
I guess it depends on what the meaning of “illegal” is.
Junior Samples
April 27th, 2010
1:45 pm
Immigration, in the past, present, or future, has not caused a country-wide financial crisis. Let’s stick to financial reform, get that buttoned up, then move onto the next issue.
No diversions, no side-tracks.
In case anyone hasn’t noticed, the flow of immigration has slowed down considerably because nobody is hiring.
Jefferson
April 27th, 2010
1:49 pm
Read em’ like a book.
JKL2
April 27th, 2010
1:51 pm
Moulder-
The last I checked, the people getting their phone tapped were going to jail. I’m all for that if it keeps us safe.
What does monitoring my 14 yr old neice’s 17k tweets last month do for national security? I sure hope they give us a nice large tax increase to fund this new Federal Bureau of Tweet Mangaement.
StJ
April 27th, 2010
1:52 pm
Some illegals enter the country with no intention of finding a legit job (see: Mexican drug cartels, etc). They have no problem killing US citizens or Border Patrol agents.
The border must be closed and vigorously defended, by the military if necessary. Penalties for hiring, harboring, or transporting illegals must also be stiffened to a point well beyond them being considered a “cost of doing business”.
After that, the rest of the problem is solvable.
DEWSTARPATH
April 27th, 2010
2:03 pm
Welcome back, Kyle.
– I don’t agree with Disgusted. The border can be secured the same
way we secure the seas, with a little more effort. Northern Mexico may
represent a larger challenge than the Horn of Africa or the 36th Parallel,
but in addition to being a lot closer, we already have most of the assets
and capabilities in the region along the Southern border.
dewstarpath
April 27th, 2010
2:05 pm
I DO agree whith disgusted’s point about employment scrutiny
and ICE efforts.
dewstarpath
April 27th, 2010
2:05 pm
- “with”. Sorry about the typo.
Gator Joe
April 27th, 2010
2:14 pm
Kyle:
Unless you are descendant of one of the native peoples who inhabited North America when conquest and colonization began, then you are here uninvited. It is all but certain, that the first European settlers were not asked [by the indigenous peoples] to immigrate into the Americas. Another problem, is the attitude among some ( Arizona for example) that English speaking white immigrants are fine, but not the Hispanics, Haitians or other non-whites. In reality, those descended from 17th and 18th Century English “settlers” have no more moral authority when it comes to deciding immigration policy than anyone else. Finally, most of us are the sons and daughters of immigrants, and the truth is, if today, we, or any of our family, were suffering hunger and extreme poverty then we would enter US by any means possible. A humane, and fair, immigration policy should proceed from this realization.
Agent Moulder
April 27th, 2010
2:16 pm
JKL2,
So all the people who’s phones are being tapped are going to jail? If you’re being tapped, you’re guilty? Absolutely no mistakes there? None? Your 14 yr old niece has never used a phone? The most popular device used for tweets?
BTW, the new catch phrase is fee, not tax.
LibraryJim
April 27th, 2010
2:21 pm
When I’m stopped by the police on the highway, I have to produce my ‘papers’ — Driver’s License, insurance card and auto registration.
when I go to renew my DL, I have to produce my papers — Original or Certified copy of my Birth Certificate and other proof of residence.
When I go to vote, I have to produce my papers: photo ID and/or voters reg card.
How is AZ’s law any different from what we do now?
LibraryJim
April 27th, 2010
2:23 pm
Given the current economic situation, I don’t think that there are many jobs “Americans won’t do” anymore.
Agent Moulder
April 27th, 2010
2:25 pm
StJ,
You’re throwing out the baby with the bath water. Not all immigrants come here to do harm. 99% just want a better life.
Show of hands of those who are 100% absolutely positive that their ancestors came here legally. I know my ancestors were Scots, but how would I know they came here legally?
Ragnar Danneskjöld
April 27th, 2010
2:31 pm
Dear Kyle, welcome back.
(1) I am mostly a free-immigrationist, mostly because I think the central government is incompetent to determine the right number of immigrants to admit. Jim Wooten once suggested a “quality” test, without numerical limits, and I think I could support that. Having so argued, I don’t have a real problem with the general thrust of the proposed law in Arizona. Suspect it would come to be enforced there as in Belgium – no storm troopers bursting into hotels or kitchens, but sharp questioning whenever there is a suspicion of a real crime. Agree with your broader view of the “blame.”
(2) Tell Ray his 15 minutes is over.
JKL2
April 27th, 2010
3:00 pm
Moulder-
You’re missing the point. You’re complaining about the Patriot Act but yet your president has gone far beyond anything Bush ever dreamed of(in your imagination). Where’s all the outrage from the left?
StJ
April 27th, 2010
3:07 pm
Hey Kyle, was wondering where you went…thought you might have been punted for being too conservative
This IS the AJC, after all.
Agent: I have no problem with people wanting a better life. The system needs to be fixed so they can do that legally. No fix will work until the border is secure and we can keep the miscreants out.
The Snark
April 27th, 2010
3:12 pm
JKL2:
If you are an American, then Obama is your President too.
Unless of course your fealty (go ahead, look it up) to right wing politics trumps your loyalty to the United States of America.
Peter
April 27th, 2010
3:19 pm
Kyle if Sonny Perdue is the “Head Of the Republicans”……. Good Luck………How is that Fish farm coming along while the education sucks, and the state goes Bankrupt ?
No More Progressives!
April 27th, 2010
3:36 pm
LibraryJim
April 27th, 2010
2:21 pm
When I’m stopped by the police on the highway, I have to produce my ‘papers’ — Driver’s License, insurance card and auto registration.
LJ make a very valid point here. You can’t get married, get a passport, see a Doctor, get auto insurance, buy a house, ad infinitum with showing some form of “your papers.”
So, in the end, it’s all relative. What I’d like to know is how illegals get welfare, Medicare, tuition, etc. WITHOUT showing “their papers.”
Steve
April 27th, 2010
3:40 pm
KUDO’s to Arizona. 70% of the Arizona population approves of the new law. The federal government has not done squat to curb the flow of illegal immigrants situation from Mexico for decades. We have an estimated 30 million illegal immagrants in this country because of this.
Employers caught hiring them should be HEAVILY fined. Illegals won’t come if there are no employers hiring them.
I am well aware the majority of illegals are decent , hard working people. That doesn’t change the fact they are in this country illegally.
No More Progressives!
April 27th, 2010
3:41 pm
The Snark
April 27th, 2010
3:12 pm
If you are an American, then Obama is your President too.
I am an American (and I can prove it), and Obama is the President, but I will not support him. I respect the Office but not the man.
Fealty comes from the Latin fidelis, or faithful. And I am faithful to the USA and the Constitution.
JKL2
April 27th, 2010
3:45 pm
Snark-
As a proud resident of the state of IL, I didn’t vote for the idiot to be senator let alone president. Yes, I understand that he is my president since I live here, but I want to make it perfectly clear that I don’t support anything that he is doing to ruin our country.
To use a Rush quote,”I want his policies to fail” I wish everything was great and he was another Bill Clinton(spending all his time chasing interns rather than running the country). But our country needs some leadership now and we’re not getting it.
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 27th, 2010
3:55 pm
Doesn’t the U. S. allow more legal immigrants than any other country in the world?
Churchill's MOM
April 27th, 2010
4:34 pm
Chuck Donovan is running for the US Senate against the RINO Johnny Isakson
John Monds is running for Ga. Governor against Karen Handel, I hope.
The libertarian party had their convention several weeks ago so Boyd will have to run in the Constitution Party or as an Independent.. Wing boy it would really be a service to the state of Georgia if you were to do a fair interview of ALL state wide Libertarian candidate.
I DID NOT DO A GOOGLE SEARCH.
I am totally against amnesty too bad our Senators are not.
MarkV
April 27th, 2010
4:43 pm
Kyle is generally right about the immigration issue and the Arizona law. However, when he tries to direct some blame on Obama, let’s just wait for Obama to do something about immigration, and we will see how the Republicans will do everything in their power to stop it.
Gerald West
April 27th, 2010
4:51 pm
Kyle, your commentary citing experience with having to produce identification papers on demand is helpful in explaining why we don’t want any such thing is this country. Thanks for that.
The best and only immigration policy we’ll ever have is to do nothing much to deter people wanting to work here. We are utterly dependent on immigrant labor to grow and process our food and perform the unpleasant, almost unbearable, tasks like summer roofing and paving. Let’s hope the immigrants keep coming!
Neither Democrat nor Republican politicians will ever make a sincere effort to control immigration, though all will play politics with the issue.
Arizona profits from illegal immigration more than any other state. Cheap labor has made it possible for millions of retirees to settle in that inhospitable climate and lead a midwestern lifestyle replete with lawns and flower gardens. The new law is just cheap Republican political posturing! Everyone knows it will be struck down by the courts as soon as any bona-fide citizen is challenged to prove his citizenship. Then, the courts can be accused of “legislating”.
So, don’t worry about it; the courts will defend the constitutional rights our elected politicians play games with.
Please explain what is the sense of a loyalty oath to the Republican party, and why a candidate for public office should have to sign it.
Does the Republican Party have a policy statement that anyone can take seriously? Lower taxes, bigger wars, and more benefits for corporate agriculture and senior citizens is a delusion, not a policy. A pledge of fiscal responsibility from the political party that gave us a $1.2 trillion federal budget debt, a $12 trillion national debt, and a $22 trillion world-wide economic blow-out is hypocritical nonsense.
Let’s elect Boyd! He’s sincere enough about good government to refuse to participate in party politics, he’s rich enough not to swindle us if he is elected to public office, and he’s willing to put his money and his reputation on a bid for good governance..
No More Progressives!
April 27th, 2010
4:57 pm
MarkV
April 27th, 2010
4:43 pm
“Doing something” about immigration is not amnetsty. The laws are on the books now; I want what’s already there enforced.
Jefferson
April 27th, 2010
5:20 pm
JKL2 too bad about that, you and Rush should have made some lemonade, since life has gave ya’ll lemons.
TGT
April 27th, 2010
5:21 pm
Let me get this straight: The biggest problem that liberals have with the Ariz. law is that it encourages (or institutes) “racial profiling?” (As Tucker’s blog noted.)
Given that about 90% of illegal aliens are Hispanic (about 70% are Mexican) it would be asinine and irresponsible not to prefer to look at those individuals who appear to be Hispanic/Mexican (and have given the police reason enough to consider asking for their “papers”) when it comes to the crime of illegal immigration. It is the same way with terrorism. When it comes to airline security in this country, why in the world would you treat a 70-year-old black (or white) woman the same way you would a young Muslim man?! Again, such behavior is asinine (and deadly). We all saw what resulted from this type of political correctness with the Fort Hood shooter.
About 90% of serial killers are male (with about 70% of these being white males). Are we at all concerned about “racial profiling” or “sexual profiling” when it comes to catching serial killers? Of course not.
Stop with the faux outrage when it comes to every crime and racial profiling. In other words, it is not necessarily “racist” to racially profile.
Mama Says
April 27th, 2010
5:56 pm
Listen guys I hear the argument over the immigration law but most of you libs are way behind in your outrage.
The Georgia legislature has been eying an anti texting law. Sounds good to keep people from texting while driving-saves lives and all that stuff– yeah yeah yeah. But this little step, which is also supported by a vast majority of the state electorate (like the AZ law) would amount to the same potential violation of your rights as the Arizona immigration bill, yet I do not see any protesters. I know a anti-driving and texting law seems off the point and perhaps trivial however. The law allows police to pull you over based on “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” to believe you are texting. The problem, as with the immigration bill, is that the law supposes that you have violated it simply by appearing to be texting. You could have your phone in your hand with it on speaker, you could be listening to a voice mail or conducting ANY other activity aside from texting yet the fact that you are driving and holding the phone gives police the “reasonable suspicion” that you may be texting.
My point is this, states and governments are passing more and more laws that, on their face, are unconstitutional. They pre determine that you have broken a law without having anything more than an appearance of what they (government) perceive to be a violation. The police have long had the ability to use “reasonable suspicion” and the argument being parlayed against the immigration law, that police can now just stop you for no reason is, in general, a fallacious argument or at best an uninformed argument, they have long since had that ability. Problem is that ability use to be used in common sense crime prevention ie : a person with a gun may be about to rob someone, wearing gloves in July as you walk through a subdivision may mean you are a burglar etc…. Now your GOVERNMENT is deciding FOR the police who should be stopped and what the appearance of a violator is. You should all worry–next year they may decide that if you look like you are an illegal immigrant and you are texting on the phone you are in violation of the anti terrorism laws.
I am a conservative and I thought it sounded a bit like Hitler’s Germany to refer to the U.S. as the “HOMELAND” under Bush——kind of has that “fatherland” feel to in my view. Now we are adopting the fatherlands laws and tactics.
Like medical care, this issue can be solved pretty easy–stop clouding the issue. Coming into the country (or any other for that matter) without reporting is illegal. Commiting and an illegal act makes you a criminal, criminals are arrested. Answer ? WHEN THEY ARE FOUND ARREST THEM AND SEND THEM BACK. Trust me, law enforcement LOCAL AND FEDERAL run into illegals all the time without LOOKING FOR THEM.
And what is with this insane argument that only the FEDS should enforce immigration laws ? Police are police they are sworn to uphold the laws of the state and the constitution, last I checked each state in the union ratified the U.S. Constitution therefore aren’t illegals violating the wishes of the states to began with. Everything is local.
The common link on these “controversial laws” is that the government, in an effort to make things political are passing laws as if the issue isn’t already illegal and in doing so they further intrude on all of our rights. It’s already against the law to illegally enter the country and it is already against the law to drive while distracted—hope the politicians get the votes they are looking for by making it MORE ILLEGAL —if that is possible. By the way I am outraged that underage kids are able to get alcohol and I hereby suggest we make it illegal to appear to be headed to the beer cooler if you have a child with you–that will stop it ! tThere now I am a good person and I have ensured your child’s protection against those who would have them consume alcohol. I should run for office !
Michael H. Smith
April 27th, 2010
7:17 pm
I am not a restrictionist or nativist; I generally favor expanding the number of ways foreign workers can enter the country legally — preferably for the short term, and in tune with our economic needs.
A bit of an oxymoron there Kyle. You are a restrictions even though you said you are not by virtue of your comment… “in tune with our economic needs”. Not that you are wrong or a bad person for saying so: It’s the same stance I take on the amounts of allowable for legal immigration permissible at any time.
As for the number of ways a so-called immigrant can come to work in this country: That Kyle has already been expanded too far. There is a visa for nearly every letter in the alphabet! How many more do you need? About half of all illegal aliens that are in the country presently came legally on a visa that has now expired. The Federal government shouldn’t issue another visa until it clears out all the visa overstays and under NO CONDITIONS GRANT ANOTHER AMNESTY OF ANY KIND IN ANY FORM TO ANY ILLEGAL ALIEN.
The Arizona law is not nearly as over the top as many try to make it. Cops can stop you or I now without much of a reason and ask for identification; not to overlook part two of the AZ law when it is already a violation of Federal law to breathe the air in any state if you are in the country illegally.
But let the Obumer and the Dems go for their normal ethnic divisive gaming. With unemployment at around 10% nationwide, they’ll not get much public sympathy from the majority of U.S. citizens for illegal aliens working in jobs that U.S. citizens should be gainfully employed in doing – at least until something better comes along, which might be a long time considering Obumer’s lack luster performance on an economy that produces jobs, jobs, jobs.
We differ on what an honest to goodness immigrant should seek when coming to this country and that is a U.S. Citizenship. If they don’t want to be completely an American without hyphens or adjectives added they should stay wherever they are and make the best of their bad situation. WE DON”T NEED ANY HALF “A _ _” AMERICANS.
John
April 27th, 2010
7:31 pm
Why don’t the other 49 stats follow Arizona’s lead and vote on the same bill that addresses the problem. Let the voters decide. Not the politicians.
irishmafia
April 27th, 2010
11:00 pm
Way to go AZ !! enough with the politically correct nonsense it’s going to kill all of us
African_American_USA_Citizen
April 28th, 2010
12:05 am
Okay Everyone, there is a misconception that Blacks are for illegal immigrants getting amnesty. I am here to tell you that is so far from the truth! The majority of Blacks in America do not want amnesty for illegal immigrants from Mexico, Central America and South America. Why should they get first dibs on citizenship when there are people from Haiti, countries in Africa and other places who would like to become US citizens. I agree there must be immigration reform to cut the red tape but those who are here illegally should not be allowed to become citizens unless they pay back for the services they used, i.e., health care, education costs, etc. and pay a hefty fine of $20,000 per person. If not, they should be on the fast track back to their country. Also, why don’t they go back to their countries and march for better treatment and resources?
In the larger cities, Hispanic gangs are taking over. They are bloody and cutthroat. We can’t accommodate our own criminals, now Mexico is dumping them out of their prisons and letting them free to come to America. And, what sickens me the most, is when Hispanics have the audacity to compare their plight to the Civil Rights Movement. Blacks in America marched for their rights as USA citizens. How can one feel so pompous as to think you should force a country to take you? I am calling on all Americans, Black, White, Red and Yellow to put aside our differences and come together to force Congress to pass effective and non-amnesty immigration reform!
Cubs Win?
April 28th, 2010
12:23 am
Hasn’t Obama had more immigration busts than Bush?
Kyle's Korner
April 28th, 2010
7:11 am
“The expiration date for blaming bush is nigh if not by…”
Kyle, Iraq was Bush/Cheney. That expiration date on THAT milk carton depends on the Kurds. (like that?) The pictures of the missing children of collateral damage next to the expiration date is Bush’s fault too, (you must have put your conscience out to pastur(ize)).
Just kidding…..
The economy is totally the Cheney administration’s fault. Until we see that V shaped recovery, (under the Obama administration, by the way, sir), this economic mess is the gift that keeps on bankrupting.
The markets are predicting a vigorous recovery. The only thing that could stop it is global bankruptcy. Europe is the next link in the Cheney that could fail.
The Gyros could kill the Euros. Then Portugal, Spain and Italy. If all economies are linked, then the Domino Theory finally has an app on this planet. (That theory required a little Caesar to be credible during Nam).
Just kidding…….
It’s amusing to watch McCain defend Arizona’s new law.
The Tar and Feathers Party
April 28th, 2010
7:42 am
The usa is now the third most populated country in the world, just behind China and India. You may have noticed the highways in Atlanta are getting more crowded everyday. Now imagine the Federal Pecker Heads had actually been doing their jobs for the last 40 odd years. We would have some 30 million fewer people, and roughly 10% fewer cars on the roads. I demand each and every police officer in the country utter the phrase “Paper Please” at least 50 times per day until we are rid of the pesky brown invaders from the South. I urge extermination of the pests…..
JKL2
April 28th, 2010
8:11 am
Jefferson
I live in the greatest country in the world. What is too bad?
Be thankful we have the ability we can make lemonade. Obama is going to put a tax on it in the near future. Just pray we have a little freedom left when the idiot gets kicked to the curb in a couple years.
JKL2
April 28th, 2010
8:17 am
Kyle’s korner-
by missing children you must be refering to all the one’s being used as human sheilds and suicide bombers. They have no sanctity for their children’s lives. That’s part of the problem.
Obama is doing everything in his power to destroy job growth. If the economy recovers it will be in spite of him, not because of him.
Yes Europe is failing. That must be why our administration is doing everything they can to turn our country into one of theirs. I wonder what the outcome will be? I’m sure it will be OK since Obama told you it will work since he is the smartest man in the world.(as long as they type it in the teleprompter correctly).
hsn
April 28th, 2010
8:34 am
Kyle -
If Obama tackled Immigration in the first 15 months, Republicans and their supporters will still chastise him for “pandering to illegals.” There is no way Obama gets a break with you lot no matter what he does.
Also, when was the last time you heard the phrase “Clinton is not in office anymore”? During all 8 of the failed Bush administration, you lot kept blaming Clinton as if he hadn’t left office.. Why the double standard?
hsn
Morrus
April 28th, 2010
8:38 am
Vote out the incumbents and start over
No More Progressives!
April 28th, 2010
11:14 am
The Tar and Feathers Party
April 28th, 2010
7:42 am
I demand each and every police officer in the country utter the phrase “Paper Please” at least 50 times per day until we are rid of the pesky brown invaders from the South. I urge extermination of the pests…..
A bit drastic (extermination), but I agree in concept.
I say we adopt reciprocal immigration laws. If a Mexican wants to live in the USA, our immigration policy “mirrors” the Mexican policy when an American wants to immigrate there.
Issue settled.
Intown
April 28th, 2010
11:51 am
I find this refrain: “But we must have control over our borders before we can do that in any rational sort of way.” to simply be an excuse for inaction. We will never have 100% control of our borders. Our country is too large and the borders too long and remote for perfect control. Immigration reform to allow immigrants a clear and predictable path to citizenship will ease our need to man the border with armed para-military personnel every 50 feet.
Intown
April 28th, 2010
11:55 am
Kyle: I agree that the expiration date for blaming Bush for certain things is passing or has passed. Obama pissed away a year on healthcare reform. I think the climate change/energy bill is far more important and should have been his top priority right after dealing with the economy and financial reform. Immigration reform, however, I would have put after healthcare reform. Just one left of center Democrat’s point of view.
CrazyInGA
April 28th, 2010
12:41 pm
Kyle,
I don’t think the Republican Party would have supported President Obama on Immigration Reform; they are too busy saying NO to everything. I happen to think his priorities were in the correct place (Healthcare, Financial Reform…….and then Immigration). However, since AZ has made it a top issue, we can move it right up to the top next too Financial Reform.
One thing I can say, I don’t believe the federal Immigration Reform law will look anything like what is happening in Arizona and THANK GOD. We minorities (legal citizens) are harassed by the police enough already.
No More Progressives!
April 28th, 2010
1:07 pm
Intown
April 28th, 2010
11:51 am
Immigration reform to allow immigrants a clear and predictable path to citizenship will…..
There already is a clear and predictable path. It just takes too long for the Deomcrats to make illegals “instant Democrats,” which equals a vote for the Democrat party that gives out all the free goodies at someone elses expense. There’s nothing wrong with the system we have, except the enforcement.
No More Progressives!
April 28th, 2010
1:13 pm
Intown
April 28th, 2010
11:51 am
Immigration reform to allow immigrants a clear and predictable path to citizenship …………
There already is a clear and predictable path to citizenship. The issue at hand is that the Democrats want instant “voters” and don’t want to go through established immigration process. There’s nothing wrong with the existing process that enforcement will not fix.
No More Progressives!
April 28th, 2010
1:15 pm
CrazyInGA
April 28th, 2010
12:41 pm
We minorities (legal citizens) are harassed by the police enough already.
Awwwww. Group hug.
I’m not a minority and I’m harassed; by the IRS, the county, the state, telemarketers, junk mail, ad nauseum. Get used to it.
nelson
April 28th, 2010
2:07 pm
Why not let illegal aliens alone, they are peaceful, hard working and take the jobs that Americans deem beneath them. We are a lot like the caste system of India. On the surface we appear about the same but there is not traveling between social classes. Take the Editor of the AJC, he is all alone at the top of his news empire, the lowers will never see the intersanctum of the top people. Same with illegal immigrants, they, being at the bottom of the social ladder, they are all alone and sooner or later go back to Mexico, see, no problem
T Knight
April 28th, 2010
2:43 pm
If I write a check at the grocery store, I have to show my license. If I use a credit card, I have to show my license. If I get pulled over by the police, I have to show my license and insurance verification, when I vote I have to show ID. The federal government is now going to mandate that I buy health care. The federal govt. requires me to fill out a census form that asks for personal information.
Why can’t I demand that every single person in this country, who was not born here, be required to do the same as I am required to do. If they can’t produce documentation….. send their butts back to where ever.
Tiger Woods + Jesse James = SuperBAD meets SuperEVIL in "SuperUGLY!"
April 28th, 2010
3:08 pm
Just because Ray Boyd has tons of money doesn’t mean that he is “qualified” or even competent enough to run for and win the governor’s office. The thing that raised red flags with me about Boyd was when he was asked about the residents of North Fulton County attemptng to split from the rest of the county and reform the old Milton County. When asked about the issue Boyd stated that he couldn’t say anything about it because he had no knowledge about the issue which is alarming to say the least because Boyd owns a business that he runs and works out of a location in Alpharetta in North Fulton County.
If your a Republican millionaire who owns a business that is located in the area (North Fulton) that would be directly affected by the reformation of government into a new county (Milton County), how could you NOT be aware of this very big local issue that has been brewing for years that would affect the whole state, especially after the formation of three new city governments in the area in recent years? Has Boyd been so totally disconnected from reality that he hasn’t even glanced at a local paper or television news broadcast? How can one NOT know about this issue if they’re running for governor?
Another thing that raised red flags with me about Boyd was his statement that Georgians had too many representatives in state government and that he wanted to cut the amount of State Senators and Representatives down by about two-thirds to three-fourths. Less representation? Yeah, that should go over like a lead balloon. Ray Boyd’s multiple millions may give enough money to rail against the inefficiencies and incompetencies of government, which Lord knows, need to be addressed, but without a firm or even simple grasp of many of the issues facing the state, Boyd is just a rich man with lots of money to spend to get his name in the paper and like many of his fellow candidates for governor, unfortunately, not credible enough to be taken seriously as a candidate because of lack of knowledge (Boyd), ethics issues (Deal and Oxendine), lack of education (Handel) or liability from past experience (Barnes) or just total lack of credibility period (Scott, Polythress, Baker, Johnson, etc). For the field of candidates to be anything but impressive at this late point in the campaign, to have no one candidate or candidates that really stands out as someone that people would overwhelming like to support with just over six months until the election really says something about the state of politics in Georgia.
Tiger Woods + Jesse James = SuperBAD meets SuperEVIL in "SuperUGLY!"
April 28th, 2010
3:11 pm
By the way, Kyle, well said on the new Arizona law and the new immigration issue!
Michael H. Smith
April 28th, 2010
4:56 pm
Texas legislators plan bills similar to Arizona immigration law
http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/04/28/2149401/texas-legislators-plan-bills-similar.html
Jess
April 28th, 2010
5:59 pm
I lived in three countries in Europe and traveled extensively all over Europe and southeast asia. I have never been anywhere where I could travel freely without my passport and appropriate visas.
I never saw this as an imposition at all, and I was once asked to show my papers.
All this is much ado about nothing.
@@
April 28th, 2010
8:50 pm
Lawd, Kyle, I thought you’d died and gone to heaven.
I’ve read the bill…it kept referring to federal statutes. I wonder why?
There was a raid that nabbed a Chinese fella. He paid $75,000 to get smuggled in. Latinos in the same van? $700. Makes me wonder what he was doin’ among the bunch, and from where did he get $75,000?
Winston Smith
April 29th, 2010
3:34 pm
Kyle:
In connection with the Arizona law, I suggest you take a look at the Muehler v. Mena decision from the US Supreme Court in 2005. Questioning citizenship status during a valid search of a residence was upheld 9-0 with liberal icons Breyer, Stevens, Souter and Ginsburg voting unanimously with the neanderthal conservatives. In essence, the police handcuffed the defendant in her home while executing a valid search warrant of the house. While she was detained in her garage, police and immigration officials questioned her about her citizenship. The defendant, among other things, argued the questions about her immigration status violated the 4th Amendment; the justices disagreed, holding that citizenship questions by themselves do not constitute a “seizure.” In essence, because the initial detention was lawful and was not prolonged by the questioning, there was no additional seizure within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, and no additional Fourth Amendment justification for inquiring about Mena’s immigration status was required. While that case was in the context of a search warrant (otherwise known as a “legal contact”), it is interesting to note that there was no requirement of an independent “reasonable suspicion” for questioning immigration status. In many ways, this seems to parallel the situation envisioned by the Arizona law, which requires an initial lawful contact before any citizenship questions occur, which must themselves be accompanied by independent reasonable suspicion about immigration status. So in at least one important regard, Arizona goes beyond what the USSC would require in Muehler. While you rarely find facts that are identical, the scenarios are pretty close to what is envisioned by the Arizona statute–hence, a compelling guideline for how the statute could ultimately be upheld.
Rural GA
May 8th, 2010
10:50 pm
When will guys who look like Kyle routinely be stopped by the police and required to “prove” they are American? And will the so-called “conservatives” be cool with that? Those candidates who want to copy this unconstitutional AZ law here in GA are just finding another way to try to use hate to win an election.
Danny S
May 12th, 2010
10:43 pm
Hey Kyle, sorry I am late on this but two Libertarians without looking would be John Monds running in Georgia for Governor. That’s all I know in Georgia though.