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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
120 comments Add your comment
HDB
February 23rd, 2010
10:19 am
So defense spending didn’t create airplanes that were converted for commercial usage? So infrastructure spending didn’t create the Interstate Highway System that allowed commercial traffic to expedite shipments coast-to-coast…and allowed business to spring forth?? So military spending didn’t create the satellite industry…and the majority of worldwide communications uses technology derived from such? In many instances, GOVERNMENT was the catalyst for private enterprise!! Don’t just say that government robs the private sector; in many cases, it’s government that HIRES the private sector!!
Real Athens
February 23rd, 2010
10:19 am
The only problem, it’s not a picture — it’s a cartoon.
Learn how to mix your metaphors.
Oh, um, how did the Interstate Highway system get built, or say Hoover Dam or the Grand Coulee Dam.
Tool.
Monroe Burbank
February 23rd, 2010
10:39 am
I know how conservatives hate facts and would rather rely on irrational ideologically-driven poorly- researched talking points (or cartoons) and misplaced blame, but I’m still going to give this a shot. President Clinton created 23 million jobs, the most of any president in the last 70 years. To put this into perspective, Jimmy Carter created 10.4 million jobs in 4 years, while the George Bushes created the whopping total of 5.5 million jobs during their collective 12 years in office. (Yeah, let’s get another Republican in the White House – quick.)
Gee, Kyle, I don’t remember too many your ilk doing ANY complaining over the 8 years when GWB created only 3 million jobs. The worst overall creation record of any president – EVER. Please go stick your head back in the job-creation sandbox (or somewhere else), where it was from 2000 – 2008.
Three cheers to Bill Clinton, the poster-child of job creation in our lifetime.
Baghdad Bob
February 23rd, 2010
10:55 am
If the cartoon were indeed a picture, and truth were the subject, then the thread-bare jobs being sewn by our Knitwit-in-chief, would be depleting the fabric from the private sector’s skirt, not the shirt. The big brother of chairman Mao is an equal-opportunity socialist, after all.
The Carnivore
February 23rd, 2010
10:59 am
Presidents do not create jobs.
JF McNamara
February 23rd, 2010
11:06 am
Another blog from the AJC Republican propaganda chief. You know you could actually add benefit by looking at some of the programs that the government has created and taking a realistic look at the positives and negatives.
What Kyle is secretly thinking: That’s too hard. I’ll just redirect to a propaganda site and collect my check. Mission Accomplished!
Monroe Burbank
February 23rd, 2010
11:18 am
The Carnivore,
I guess Presidents aren’t responsible for budget deficits or surpluses, starting wars, setting foreign policy, or overall economic health, either.
In February 1993 President Clinton drove the revision the existing lending regulations, and during that month both President Clinton and Alan Greenspan, during separate news conferences, stated that the purpose of these revisions was geared to helping small businesses.
Also, since most conservatives don’t know the definition of “socialism” without referring to a dictionary, I suggest they refrain from using the word because when they do, their analogies border on the ridiculous, and it just makes them look really stupid.
Ignorance, thy name is conservative.
Richard
February 23rd, 2010
11:29 am
So why not just go back to the calssic “tax custs for private businesses that hire new employees” logic. Problem is that doesn’t create jobs either.
The only thing that actually creats jobs is an increase in demand which increases workload which increases hours needed which increases people needed to work those hours. Tax cuts and bills, and federal spending don’t do anything in terms of actual production.
Where the federal spending can “create” jobs is by needlessly spending money on salaries for workers that aren’t actually needed. There’s a whole other debate as to whether or not the increased unemployment without that would be worse than not spending the money. I’m guessing that’s another collumn.
john force
February 23rd, 2010
11:29 am
government creates “temporary” jobs. That is the problem.
Fix-It
February 23rd, 2010
11:41 am
HDB, did defense spending pay for the commercial planes? Infrastructure spending on the federal side has been dismal at best. The states spend more for local roads. By the way why don’t we check and make sure that all the infrastructure spending goes to AMERICAN’s not illegal’s. Yes NASA has spawned many private jobs for high tech private sector, so what is Obozo doing to NASA and defense spending? He is cutting spending on BOTH.
Monroe Burbank, three cheers for Bill Clinton, the poster child for Enron, his policies made it possible. I know how liberals don’t like FACTS, but this IS a FACT.
neo-Carlinist
February 23rd, 2010
12:04 pm
hey liberals, this cartoon is spot on (especially, the image of Obama, which conveys an almost grandmotherly sense of “taking care” of his grandkids). I think the motivation is sincere, but the plan is short-sighted. did we all not just blog about the looming underfunded pensions for civil servants storm? I have never been one to ignorantly yammer about “Socialism” but that’s exactly what this is – the working class doing so for the “good of the state”. obviously, there are certain areas specific to the public sector, but building a workforce of bureaucrats, to ultimately be paid by taxpayers is the very essence of counter-productive. quite frankly, all things being equal, why not just pay unemployment benefits (which are temporary and offer no pension)? no government “creates” jobs.
FUN GUY
February 23rd, 2010
12:11 pm
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had once failed an entire class.
That class had insisted that Obama’s socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, “OK,
we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan”.
All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.
The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.
As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D!
No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering,
blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
Could not be any simpler than that.
retiredds
February 23rd, 2010
12:16 pm
Hey, Kyle, we need more of the following as opposed to the childish crying, whining, and bickering we have had to put up with since President Obama took office.
“This Senate jobs bill is not perfect,” said Mr. Brown, whose election victory in Massachusetts last month put an end to the Democrats ability to mount a 60-vote majority in the Senate, the number of votes needed to overcome filibusters. “I wish the tax cuts were deeper and broader, but I voted for it because it contains measures that will help put people back to work.”
Mr. Brown was joined in voting yes by fellow Republican Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine, George Voinovich of Ohio and Christopher Bond of Missouri.
I don’t know but I am assuming that our two Republican Senators voted against because they think voting party lines vs what’s best for their constituents is paramount.
And poor Mr. Brown, he is probably going to feel a lot of heat from the conservatives (especially the loud radio clowns) for having voted for his constituents (a novel idea in this day and age of ideology trumping everything else) and not the party. Maybe, just maybe, he is not the clone they thought he was going to be.
Funny thing, I feel more represented by Senators Brown, Snowe, Collins, Voinovich, and Bond than I do the two guys , Chambliss and Isakson, who claim to represent me.
CJ
February 23rd, 2010
12:24 pm
The numbers are in, and there is zero doubt that the Dem’s stimulus bill helped to pull us from the brink of economic catastrophe, in part by creating millions of jobs that would not otherwise have existed. All of the major economic research firms that have studied the stimulus’ effect have come to this conclusion. The specific estimates vary, but it’s clear that the stimulus created at least 2 million jobs last year–with more to come.
Stimulus opponents, often motivated by strictly ideological or political concerns, have repeatedly claimed that the bill didn’t create a single job that the economy wouldn’t have created anyway. This isn’t true, and it should be beyond the bounds of political debate to claim it.
Fox News: “According to the nonpartisan CBO, the Recovery Act is already responsible for as many as 2.4 million jobs through the end of 2009.“
Jefferson
February 23rd, 2010
12:40 pm
That private sector cat is a fat azz, he must be lazy eh?
DawgDad
February 23rd, 2010
1:10 pm
“Don’t just say that government robs the private sector; in many cases, it’s government that HIRES the private sector!!”
Sure, and WHERE does the money for government jobs or government-sponsored hiring and contracting come from? It can only come from two places: taxes/fees or government borrowing. Either way it is a net drain on the public sector, where the multiplier effect for deployment of captial and spending is much higher than for governement spending. Liberals of all stripes need to understand the basic economic fact that government spending is NEVER as efficient as private spending. Converatives ALREADY accept that some objectives are served by a government approach: Common defense being the primary. However, even for national defense the underlying foundation of our liberty is the second amendment protection of our individual right to protect ourselves.
Please, liberals and leftists, go to a real school, not a statist government indoctrination camp, and learn something about how the world really works and what it takes to preserve our liberties. Otherwise, learn Chinese, because they are ultimately going to own you.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
1:19 pm
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET PIC!
Pretty much sums it all up. Look at the government liberals howwwwwwwwwwwwl.
Nice job Kyle!
LA
February 23rd, 2010
1:24 pm
“it’s government that HIRES the private sector!!”
Yeah, AFTER the government has killed off their jobs.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
1:30 pm
retiredds
Conservatives can not get angry at Brown. He serves Mass. He doesn’t serve Texas or Alabama. People need to shut up and realize that.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
1:34 pm
DAWGDAD writes: Liberals of all stripes need to understand the basic economic fact that government spending is NEVER as efficient as private spending.
He then goes on to even greater silliness: Please, liberals and leftists, go to a real school, not a statist government indoctrination camp, and learn something about how the world really works and what it takes to preserve our liberties. Otherwise, learn Chinese, because they are ultimately going to own you.
____
Honestly, you need to get out a little more often. Did you have to work to create this stuff or is this just pure stream of consciousness abetted by substances that are probably not found over the counter?
“Statist government indoctrination camp”? WHAT are you talking about? How about an example. Oh, that’s right, we should all go to a Christian charter school so we can learn about creationism.
And as far as being owned by the Chinese, it was you good outposts of conservatism and the capitalist light that sold us down the river by cutting taxes at a time you went on to start a useless war that mobilized terrorist activity everywhere.
Care to compare the growth of the national debt under the recent Democratic vs the Republican administrations? And where were the plaintive questions about how were we going to pay for the Iraq war?
Care to tell us how American salaries have improved and how many jobs Mr. Bush created? Hmmmm?
The result of the Bush years was a scorched earth policy against the US treasury that was specifically designed to deny future administrations the ability to follow contrary policies.
If we get owned by the Chinese. We’ll have YOU to thank for it.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
1:38 pm
“Oh, that’s right, we should all go to a Christian charter school so we can learn about creationism.”
Liberals always have to attack Christians.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
1:38 pm
“Care to tell us how American salaries have improved and how many jobs Mr. Bush created? ”
Bush was never as stupid or arrogant as Obama to tell the people that he created jobs.
Oh, unemployment was 4.4% under Bush before Democrats took over.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
1:43 pm
“And where were the plaintive questions about how were we going to pay for the Iraq war?”
You should point that question to Obama. We’re still in two wars.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
1:54 pm
LA: Your comments show a excellent use of distortion and irrelevancy. Joe Goebbels would be proud of ya.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
1:54 pm
Irony defined.
Canadian Premier comes to America for heart surgery………
American president says we need to be like Canada…………
Irony…….
‘My heart, my choice,’ Williams says, defending decision for U.S. heart surgery
An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.
In an interview with The Canadian Press, Williams said he went to Miami to have a “minimally invasive” surgery for an ailment first detected nearly a year ago, based on the advice of his doctors.
“This was my heart, my choice and my health,” Williams said late Monday from his condominium in Sarasota, Fla.
“I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics.”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h0QC7bditrEb3wYz_6_b-gsGGDxA
LA
February 23rd, 2010
1:55 pm
“Your comments show a excellent use of distortion and irrelevancy. Joe Goebbels would be proud of ya.”
Yep, without posting WHAT comments are a distortion……………..
Oh, and calling someone a nazi is exactly why liberals are losing every single debate.
Racist much?
LA
February 23rd, 2010
1:56 pm
Houckster is a prime example of why America hates liberals.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
1:56 pm
Houckster
Micheal Moore is proud of you!
LA
February 23rd, 2010
1:59 pm
CNN Poll
In what direction should the United States go with nuclear power?
More 75% 130638
Less 16% 27600
Same 10% 16988
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:00 pm
By the way Kyle, that illustration gives a false illusion that Obama knows how to knit.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
2:05 pm
Honestly, Mr. Williams is of the conservative (Tory) party and was quite pleased to try to embarrass the Canadian health system.
The reality is that “Canadians strongly support the health system’s public rather than for-profit private basis, and a 2009 poll by Nanos Research found 86.2% of Canadians surveyed supported or strongly supported “public solutions to make our public health care stronger.”
http://www.healthzone.ca/health/article/679824
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
2:07 pm
Oh, and calling someone a nazi is exactly why liberals are losing every single debate.
____
No, first of all, I didn’t call you a Nazi. I said you are using some of their tactics. Again, an irrelevant response.
Conservatives win most of the debates because they rely on fear and distortion most of the time.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
2:09 pm
LA (which stands for Losers Anonymous) writes: Yep, without posting WHAT comments are a distortion……………..
____
You haven’t given a relevant response yet.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:15 pm
“No, first of all, I didn’t call you a Nazi. I said you are using some of their tactics. Again, an irrelevant response.”
Joseph Goebbels was a Nazi.
I never use Nazi tactics. I use common sense to debate liberals.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:16 pm
“LA (which stands for Losers Anonymous) writes: Yep, without posting WHAT comments are a distortion……………..”
And here we go again. Note you ma’am, I went down the road of defending myself against a certain blogger who name called.
Calling me names will get you banned.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:17 pm
“You haven’t given a relevant response yet.”
Sure I have. The reason I know this is because you have yet to point ANYTHING out. Instead you refer to me as a nazi AND have called me a name.
Check mate.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:19 pm
“The reality is that “Canadians strongly support the health system’s public rather than for-profit private basis”
And yet……they come here for surgery.
Check mate.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:20 pm
Kyle, please note that “Houckster” was the first to name call. She’s already referred to me as a Nazi and now she called me a loser.
Thanks, LA!
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:21 pm
Kyle wrote: The first instance of name-calling will result in a one-week ban.
So Kyle, you gonna enforce that rule onto Houkster?
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
2:29 pm
Here a list of LA’s silliness statements:
1) Liberals always have to attack Christians. Reply: Nope. I am a Christian. Trying to imply that liberals don’t like Christians is distortion. Though I’m not a liberal their argument is more with policies that Christians follow as opposed to the core tenets of Christianity. For example, most Christian Church try to restrict or prohibit the participation of women in the clergy.
2) I asked: “And where were the plaintive questions about how were we going to pay for the Iraq war?” LA answers: You should point that question to Obama. We’re still in two wars.
Again irrelevant. It’s one thing to start a war and it’s another to try and fight the war we need to (supported by the Republicans I might add) and trying to draw down the one that was a catastrophic mistake.
3) I asked: “Care to tell us how American salaries have improved and how many jobs Mr. Bush created? ” LA answered: Bush was never as stupid or arrogant as Obama to tell the people that he created jobs. Oh, unemployment was 4.4% under Bush before Democrats took over.
This response mixes distortion and irrelevancy almost seamlessly. During the Bush years that was net zero increase in jobs, outsourcing sent thousands of jobs overseas while replacement jobs here paid lower salaries and had fewer benefits. And 4.4% unemplyment? Nope. Just less than 8% when Mr. Bush left office. Stupid and arrogant? Just methane here, not reality.
4) LA writes: Houckster is a prime example of why America hates liberals. My, the operational definition of a liberal for LA is anyone who disagrees with him/her.
Kyle Wingfield
February 23rd, 2010
2:32 pm
Houckster, did you see this warning I posted elsewhere on the blog?
***
The pointless bickering and name-calling has once again risen to intolerable levels. I have been a little slack in policing it lately because I’ve been spending a lot of time at the Legislature and away from my computer. With a two-week break from the session starting today, I am going to tighten things back up.
The first instance of name-calling will result in a one-week ban. Responding to name-calling, or celebrating someone else’s ban, will also result in a one-week ban.
I am mostly talking about pointless, irrelevant trash-talking which LA and dewstar specialize in…but I reserve the right to act on any other excessive bickering.
There has been a good bit of substantive exchange in between the taunts, and that’s what I want us to focus on here.
You have been warned.
Prilee
February 23rd, 2010
2:33 pm
The private sector creates and pays people to do the job. We do nothing but fatten up government when our money goes towards their job creation.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
2:34 pm
LA quotes me: “You haven’t given a relevant response yet.”
Sure I have. The reason I know this is because you have yet to point ANYTHING out. Instead you refer to me as a nazi AND have called me a name.
Check mate.
____
Again irrelevant. I have made a number of points. You haven’t read them much less respond in a mature manner. What’s even worse is that I’m getting rapidly bored. Moreover, a real conservative would have left the room long ago, too embarrassed to remain.
And “check mate” is wrong. It is checkmate.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
2:36 pm
And you don’t see fit to warn LA who has been unstinting in taunt after taunt?
Linda
February 23rd, 2010
2:37 pm
We need jobs that PAY taxes, not jobs paid for BY taxes.
We don’t want more government, union, infrastructure, temporary, part-time or “green” jobs.
We want real, private sector, permanent, red, white & blue jobs from RICH people who we can rely on to pay us enough money so that we can go out & buy our own private health care insurance & our own case of caulk.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
2:37 pm
LA quotes me: “The reality is that “Canadians strongly support the health system’s public rather than for-profit private basis”
and then writes: And yet……they come here for surgery.
___
More distortion. The Canadian prime minister made a personal choice. He doesn’t speak for his country on this issue.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
2:37 pm
kyle, this cartoon is downright racist! i canty believe you would stoop to this level….just kidding. its a good one. of course you didnt draw it so what am i congratluting you for?
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:38 pm
“vAnd you don’t see fit to warn LA who has been unstinting in taunt after taunt?”
Notice that I have not called you names etc……
I simply responded to your comments. Thanks for trying to spin it!
Cutty
February 23rd, 2010
2:38 pm
Did the military basically invent the internet in which in now used as probably the biggest commerce engine in our lifetimes? Even hackers are getting paid.
Tax commerce sold via the internet, and watch that deficit drop. Teabaggers don’t use it anyway.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
2:38 pm
i see from the comments above the crybaby is once again pulling the old bait and switch….no doubt with c in hand.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:39 pm
“More distortion. The Canadian prime minister made a personal choice. He doesn’t speak for his country on this issue.”
Yep, he made a personal choice to come to AMERICA to have his surgery. AMERICA! Not Canada.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
2:40 pm
what we need is more of a partnership between public/private monies..problem is they are always ripping each other off..
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:41 pm
“Again irrelevant. I have made a number of points. You haven’t read them much less respond in a mature manner. What’s even worse is that I’m getting rapidly bored. Moreover, a real conservative would have left the room long ago, too embarrassed to remain.”
Only to you. You have made a few points and I responded to the ones that I felt you distorted. You’ve made some very immature comments about me acting like a Nazi AND by calling me a loser.
Pot meet kettle.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
2:41 pm
linda while you at it, i want a new car too. not a toyota though..
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:41 pm
“i see from the comments above the crybaby is once again pulling the old bait and switch….no doubt with c in hand.”
LOL, ok.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
2:41 pm
LA: I do admit to being caught up in the moment with “Loser Anonymous”. I AM sorry about that but you encourage such comments with your caustic comments and I was happy to give you a taste of what you seem to want to do almost all the time.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
2:45 pm
very good houckster…now you go LA?
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:48 pm
“For example, most Christian Church try to restrict or prohibit the participation of women in the clergy.”
The reason for this is in the Bible. Men are to lead. Nice try though.
“Again irrelevant. It’s one thing to start a war and it’s another to try and fight the war we need to (supported by the Republicans I might add) and trying to draw down the one that was a catastrophic mistake.”
No it’s not. Obama said he was going to close Gitmo and end the Iraq war. So far……………..
“And 4.4% unemplyment? Nope. Just less than 8% when Mr. Bush left office. Stupid and arrogant? Just methane here, not reality.”
OH REALLY??????
Bush vs. Clinton Years on Econonomy: Bush Pretty Good
And the unemployment rate 22 quarters into each expansion–jobs numbers come out more frequently – show that the current unemployment rate is 4.4 percent vs. 4.5 percent under Clinton.
http://startthinkingright.wordpress.com/2008/09/06/bush-vs-clinton-years-on-econonomy-bush-pretty-good/
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:49 pm
“I AM sorry about that but you encourage such comments with your caustic comments and I was happy to give you a taste of what you seem to want to do almost all the time.”
Hmmmmm, no not really. I never gave you a reason to call me names.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:50 pm
Houckster
Let me ask you this. It will certainly clear up something.
Do you think gays should be allowed to be pastors?
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:53 pm
Unemployment from 2000-2010
2000 4.0 4.1 4.0 3.8 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.1 3.9 3.9 3.9 3.9
2001 4.2 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.3 4.5 4.6 4.9 5.0 5.3 5.5 5.7
2002 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.9 6.0
2003 5.8 5.9 5.9 6.0 6.1 6.3 6.2 6.1 6.1 6.0 5.8 5.7
2004 5.7 5.6 5.8 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.5 5.4 5.4 5.5 5.4 5.4
2005 5.3 5.4 5.2 5.2 5.1 5.0 5.0 4.9 5.0 5.0 5.0 4.9
2006 4.7 4.8 4.7 4.7 4.6 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4
2007 4.6 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4 4.6 4.6 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.7 5.0
2008 5.0 4.8 5.1 5.0 5.4 5.5 5.8 6.1 6.2 6.6 6.9 7.4
2009 7.7 8.2 8.6 8.9 9.4 9.5 9.4 9.7 9.8 10.1 10.0 10.0
LA
February 23rd, 2010
2:54 pm
A link to those stats.
http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?series_id=LNS14000000
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
2:58 pm
I wrote: For example, most Christian Church try to restrict or prohibit the participation of women in the clergy.”
LA responds: The reason for this is in the Bible. Men are to lead. Nice try though.
_____
Remember who put the Bible together. It was men. Would you car to expound on why women are not considered competent to be ministers and priests?
____
I wrote: It’s one thing to start a war and it’s another to try and fight the war we need to (supported by the Republicans I might add) and trying to draw down the one that was a catastrophic mistake.”
No it’s not. Obama said he was going to close Gitmo and end the Iraq war. So far……………..
_____
Honestly, the hit keep on a coming. Mr. Obama did want to close Gitmo but has met steadfast opposition from the Republicans. That has slowed things down a lot. As for the Iraq War, agreements formulated by the Bush administration were in place and are being adhered to. Troups are being withdrawn according to the established schedule.
____
I wrote: “And 4.4% unemplyment? Nope. Just less than 8% when Mr. Bush left office. Stupid and arrogant? Just methane here, not reality.”
OH REALLY??????
Bush vs. Clinton Years on Econonomy: Bush Pretty Good
And the unemployment rate 22 quarters into each expansion–jobs numbers come out more frequently – show that the current unemployment rate is 4.4 percent vs. 4.5 percent under Clinton.
____
You quoted a conservative blog. The relevant numbers come from the US Labor Bureau. The relevant figure is the latest one for the Bush administration. That’s just short of 8%.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
3:00 pm
LA: Hmmmmm, no not really. I never gave you a reason to call me names.
____
You don’t seem to listen to yourself very much. You can insult people more than one way including belittling their beliefs and imparting negative characteristics to them. You have done both, not just to me but others as well.
Linda
February 23rd, 2010
3:01 pm
Sam @ 2:41, If you had only 2 choices, would you choose a Toyota or a GM?
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:03 pm
“Remember who put the Bible together. It was men. Would you car to expound on why women are not considered competent to be ministers and priests?”
Because men are supposed to be the leaders. Women were great in the Bible. Mary, Jesus’s mother, Mary Magdelene who was the first to see Jesus risen from the grave, Esther, etc…..
By the way, I am not Catholic.
“steadfast opposition from the Republicans.”
LOLOL!!!! Yeah, even though the Democrats have total control…………
“You quoted a conservative blog. The relevant numbers come from the US Labor Bureau. The relevant figure is the latest one for the Bush administration. That’s just short of 8%.”
I also posted a government site with numbers from the last 10 years. It’s all there.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
3:03 pm
you can massage numbers any way you want (22 qtrs into expansion-good one)…give me a break…overall any sane person agrees, Clinton years were great economically, Bush II’s were horrible…its pretty simple really. however if you enjoy being delusional and lying to yourself…go ahead. if you’re using employment numbers, when clinton left 4%, when W. left 8%….easy yardstick..
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:04 pm
“You can insult people more than one way including belittling their beliefs and imparting negative characteristics to them. You have done both, not just to me but others as well.”
I never insulted you. I only refuted your comments. If you feel that in some way I “hurt your feelings” then I would suggest you lighten up a bit. It’s a blog, not a nursery school.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
3:05 pm
LA writes: Let me ask you this. It will certainly clear up something. Do you think gays should be allowed to be pastors?
____
Are you implying that if I have no objection to a gay paster that I’m gay? You would be quite wrong if you think so. If I were in a position to appoint a pastor to a church, I would look for the best applicant. Whether they were gay or female would not be part of my decision.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:06 pm
“Clinton years were great economically, Bush II’s were horrible”
LOLOL!!!! Another distortion of the left. Bush dealt with 911 and the fall out for 2 years. Unemployment reached as low as 4.4% in 2006. Not even Clinton had a 4.4% rate.
“when clinton left 4%, when W. left 8%….easy yardstick..”
And when Obama leaves…….25%…….
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:08 pm
“Are you implying that if I have no objection to a gay paster that I’m gay? You would be quite wrong if you think so. If I were in a position to appoint a pastor to a church, I would look for the best applicant. Whether they were gay or female would not be part of my decision.”
1: I am not implying that you are gay. Your words not mine.
2: The Bible says that homosexuality is wrong.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
3:09 pm
LA: I never insulted you. I only refuted your comments. If you feel that in some way I “hurt your feelings” then I would suggest you lighten up a bit. It’s a blog, not a nursery school.
_____
Again, I urge you to read your comments. You were definitely angry when I used the same tactics with you. Yes, this is a blog but people can conduct themselves in a dignified and respectful manner. In a nursery, we see children who don’t know any better. We’re supposed to.
It almost seems as if you feel obligated to be abusive.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:10 pm
“You were definitely angry when I used the same tactics with you.”
I never called you a nazi or a loser.
“It almost seems as if you feel obligated to be abusive.”
Pot meet kettle.
Kyle Wingfield
February 23rd, 2010
3:11 pm
LA, Houckster, that’s enough.
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
3:13 pm
LA writes: The Bible says that homosexuality is wrong.
The Bible also says an eye for an eye. We have moved on. In our world we have courts to settle disputes and mete out punishment to the guilty in a civilized manner.
It is dangerous to take the Bible too literally.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:16 pm
“It is dangerous to take the Bible too literally.”
I take the Bible as the literal word of God.
“The Bible also says an eye for an eye. ”
Your point?
sam
February 23rd, 2010
3:18 pm
any economist would say the same…of course goofy ideologues blogs are easier on fragile egos and fit nicely with preconceived notions..it appears that 3 weeks into the 2nd february of w.’s second term GDP was actually higher than clinton’s for almost 2 hourss, therefore W. was the greatest president ever….
in my world, clear heads and honesty prevail….
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:24 pm
“in my world, clear heads and honesty prevail….”
Clinton good! Bush bad!
Yep, honesty prevailed….lololol
Houckster
February 23rd, 2010
3:25 pm
Sam, I’m out of the room. I enjoyed your comments.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
3:25 pm
linda, depends on make/model…but honestly i’d probably still; go with toyota but not before a nice check on all brake/engine systems..
sam
February 23rd, 2010
3:26 pm
on the economy absa frickin lutely…..pull your pants back up, he’s watching you…
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:33 pm
“on the economy absa frickin lutely”
yeah, liberals like to omit the part where the GOP had total control of the House and Senate, therefore forcing Clinton, who had a bad first term, to go with GOP ideas.
It didn’t hurt to have the dot-com boom…..which Clinton had NOTHING to do with.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:34 pm
“pull your pants back up, he’s watching you…”
Yeah, that’s what Monica used to tell Bill when Hillary was coming around the corner.
Linda
February 23rd, 2010
3:36 pm
Sam@3:25, My family is in protest mode. We don’t buy GM, GE, “green,” etc. We don’t watch Oprah, NBC, etc. We don’t use UPS. We canceled AARP (even tho they offered us a tote bag).
Kevin
February 23rd, 2010
3:45 pm
LA,
The bible also advocates the murder of homosexuals
Leviticus 20:13 ” ‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
You agree?
J.R.
February 23rd, 2010
3:45 pm
LA, Houckster…My Dad could beat-up your Dad.
CJ
February 23rd, 2010
3:47 pm
CBO Report (pdf):
“During the fourth quarter of 2009, the stimulus added “between 1.0 million and 2.1 million to the number of workers employed in the United States,” the CBO said.
The stimulus also boosted the country’s economic growth by 1.5 to 3.5 percent during the time period and lowered the nation’s unemployment rate by between 0.5 and 1.1 percentage points.
The CBO also said that in the fourth quarter the stimulus package increased the number of full-time jobs by between 1.4 and 3 million compared to the number of jobs that would have existed without the package.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:50 pm
“The bible also advocates the murder of homosexuals
Leviticus 20:13 ” ‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
That was old Jewish law.
Now if that were true, wouldn’t we see churches all over the US who believe that the Bible is the literal word of God, kill gays in large numbers?
Nice try!
sam
February 23rd, 2010
3:51 pm
linda, take the tote and then cancel….you can never have too many totes.
what are you guys protesting?
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:52 pm
“You agree?”
Nope, because you can’t point out to one single Bible believing church that has advocated violence towards gays.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:54 pm
“My Dad could beat-up your Dad.’
Uh oh, looks like a blogger is advocating violence towards my family. KYLE!!!!!!!!!
Blue
February 23rd, 2010
3:56 pm
Ohhhh…right. I forgot that Clinton created 12 million jobs because he was the president that created the internet (no…that was Dole…my bad) and then he created all of those “dot-com” jobs that stayed around forever! And the the dot-com bust/collapse probably happened because of W. Yeah…that’s how it happened. We’ll say it that way.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
3:57 pm
i thought you took the bible as the ‘literal word of god’ LA?
LA
February 23rd, 2010
3:59 pm
“thought you took the bible as the ‘literal word of god’ LA?”
I do. God doesn’t contradict and He doesn’t tell his believers to go kill gays.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
3:59 pm
disregard that , i’ll stay out of the god/religion discussion
Kevin
February 23rd, 2010
3:59 pm
Maybe not outright violence, as that would be illegal.
Out of morbid curiosity, why would you believe the bible as literal truth? Do you believe the Genesis story of creation as literal truth? Is evolution simply a liberal plot to discredit the supposed word of god?
LA
February 23rd, 2010
4:01 pm
“Do you believe the Genesis story of creation as literal truth?”
Yep.
“Is evolution simply a liberal plot to discredit the supposed word of god?”
No not a plot. Just blindly believing in something that in no way can be proven.
Kevin
February 23rd, 2010
4:03 pm
“No not a plot. Just blindly believing in something that in no way can be proven”
The same exact thing could be said for the creation story you know….and belief in god or any other deity as well…
LA
February 23rd, 2010
4:03 pm
“why would you believe the bible as literal truth?”
1: It’s never been proven wrong.
2: Every single Bible prophecy so far has come true.
3:It gives me peace about life.
4: I don’t have to worry about anything.
Bottom line:
John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
4:04 pm
“The same exact thing could be said for the creation story you know….and belief in god or any other deity as well…”
True, but I believe that God created the world.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
4:06 pm
i cant resist…that old jewish law you disregard, is taken directly from the bible! you know the word of god you take so literally. also, i dont know if there’s a god or not but there is way more proof behind evolution than in the existence of god…you talk in so many circle, its hard to follow or belive you’re serious….
LA
February 23rd, 2010
4:10 pm
“that old jewish law you disregard, is taken directly from the bible! you know the word of god you take so literally.”
Yep, and what you don’t seem to understand is the fact that in the old testament, jews( who is what you were quoting) lived under jewish law.
“is way more proof behind evolution than in the existence of god”
That MUST be why scientist all call it a THEORY!
If you truly believed in evolution, why not just go out and kill someone?
Survival of the fittest is what evolution is all about. No morals, nothing.
So, with that said, if you are a true evolutionist then you must not care about life or the lives of others.
“you talk in so many circle, its hard to follow or belive you’re serious….”
Awwwwwwwwwwwe………..
LA
February 23rd, 2010
4:15 pm
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives [a] any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him. 3 I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people; for by giving his children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 4 If the people of the community close their eyes when that man gives one of his children to Molech and they fail to put him to death, 5 I will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him and all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molech.
He was talking to Moses about the Jews.
Saying that the Bible tells Christians to kill gays is ridiculous. Especially since you can not point to any church that has gone out and killed a single gay.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
4:20 pm
thank you for proving my point…
Real Athens
February 23rd, 2010
4:20 pm
Please don’t let reality get in the way of all the conjecture spewed in this “forum”.
CBO: Stimulus bill created up to 2.1 million jobs
By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer – 3 mins ago
WASHINGTON The economic stimulus law added between 1 millionto 2.1 million workers to employment rolls by the end of last year, a new report released Tuesday by congressional economists said.
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office study also said the $862 billion stimulus added between 1.5 to 3.5 percentage points to the growth of the economy in 2009. The controversial stimulus law combined tax breaks for individuals and businesses with lots ofgovernment spending.
The report reflects agreement among economists that the measure boosted the economy. But the wide range of estimates means it won’t resolve the debate over how effective the stimulus has been.
The White House says the stimulus bill has created 2 million jobs and will add another 1.5 million this year as economic recovery continues to take hold.
CBO projects that the stimulus measure to have a greater impact this year, boosting gross domestic product by 1.4 to 4 percentage points and lowering the unemployment rate by 0.7 to 1.8 percentage points.
The report said the most efficient parts of the stimulus include infrastructure projects such as road- and bridge-building and more generous unemployment benefits. On the other hand, the popular first-time homebuyer tax credit isn’t a very efficient use of stimulus dollars, the report said.
The economy has shed 8.4 million jobs since the start of the recession in December of 2007, though job losses have slowed in the past couple of months.
The stimulus measure has earned mixed grades from a public weary of a bad economy and increasingly concerned about out-of-control budget deficits. Democrats are seeking to renew several parts of the stimulus, however, including aid for state governments and extended unemployment insurance benefits for the long-term jobless.
The White House acknowledges the long-term debt burden of the stimulus measure will place a slight drag on the economy in future years.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
4:24 pm
“thank you for proving my point…”
Which is?
Kyle Wingfield
February 23rd, 2010
4:45 pm
Real Athens: The use of “created” in that story is misleading. The CBO report does not distinguish between new jobs and existing jobs that were not eliminated. It also acknowledges that reporting by stimulus recipients indicates a much lower number of jobs (~600,000) and that the higher jobs figures are estimates based on mathematical models. It does not say whether the low estimate or the high estimate is more likely to be correct.
But let’s assume for a moment that the high estimate, 2.1 million jobs, is correct. CBO says the federal government — that is, taxpayers — spent $272 billion on the stimulus last year. So, almost $130,000 per job. Was it worth it?
KnowledgeDog
February 23rd, 2010
4:52 pm
Monroe Burbank , Clinton did not create jack S_iT, it was the private sector with capital investment in computer and communication equipment. It also went bust at the end of Clinton’s term. Also for you idiots out there, Clinton had a Republican congress (house and senate).
Linda
February 23rd, 2010
5:11 pm
CJ@3:47, If you owned a company that grossed a million dollars a year, that could be a good thing, unless your expenses were $999,999, in which case your net income was only a dollar.
More jobs have been lost than created since the Economic Stimulus Bill was passed.
Unemployment has INCREASED at least 2.5% since it was passed. The only job it created was that of Sen. Scott Brown.
Linda
February 23rd, 2010
5:35 pm
Sam@3:51, We canceled AARP when we learned they took bribe money from the govt. to sell out the elderly for the health care bill. The tote bag was after we canceled & I’m not bribed for totes.
We’re protesting how GM’s shareholders were treated & how the union was to receive preferential treatment in the health care bill, as was GE, who owns NBC, in Cap & Trade. The “green” movement will probably go down in history as the biggest hoax the government has every tried to pull on American taxpayers & probably in the world.
Intown Lib
February 23rd, 2010
5:43 pm
this cartoon is so oversimplified and just plain wrong. How does stimulus money going to infrastructure projects hurt the private sector? Answer: it doesn’t. The money goes to private contractors to build the projects. These private contractors would otherwise be sitting on their hands and bankrupt as commercial and residential construction is completely dead. In turn, good infrastructure can lead to sustaining existing growth or supporting new growth in the private sector in the future.
J.R.
February 23rd, 2010
5:55 pm
The cartoon is referring to the fact that government funded programs are paid for ultimately by the taxpayers. Hence, taking the shirt from his back. Get it?
neo-Carlinist
February 23rd, 2010
6:09 pm
LA, “survival of the fittest” is a term used by Herbert Spencer in his book Principles of Biology, which he penned after Darwin’s book Origin of Species, which dealt with “natural selection”. Survival of the fittest is a “theory”. Evolution and natural selection are part of the SCIENCE known as biology. and before you fire back with a Clinton-esque “define is” comment, let it go. I still believe in Santa Claus.
Linda
February 23rd, 2010
7:11 pm
IntownLib@5:45, The banks ARE lending. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have been able to pay back the TARP funds & bonuses. They have a choice of loaning to small businesses (pretty risky right now, usually unsecured), loaning to home owners @ 4.5% or loaning to the fed. govt. in the form of treasury bills @ 4.5% (almost risk-free). Banks are borrowing money from the Fed. Reserve at almost 0% & turning around & loaning it to the fed. govt. @ 4.5%. As long as the fed. govt. continues to spend money it does not have, it is hurting the private sector by competing with small businesses to obtain credit. The fed. govt. is causing unemployment to increase.
When do we stop building roads & bridges? When do we start focusing on printers, dry-cleaners, piano teachers, seamstresses & all millions of the Too Small To Help participants in our economy?
Michael H. Smith
February 23rd, 2010
7:13 pm
Reading between the liberal post lines of Kyle’s blog.
Please save/create my life long GUB’MENT job Dear Leader Obama mm, mm, mm. Those people in that old private sector owe me a life long GUB’MENT job and a good GUB’MENT taxpayer guaranteed pension to keep me in the opulence of which only chosen elites like me deserve.
Have you hugged a Bureaucrat today?
Fuzzy Math
February 23rd, 2010
9:04 pm
Kyle wrote:
“But let’s assume for a moment that the high estimate, 2.1 million jobs, is correct. CBO says the federal government — that is, taxpayers — spent $272 billion on the stimulus last year. So, almost $130,000 per job. Was it worth it?”
Kyle,
Given your practical experience at the Wall Street Journal and educational background, I’m sure you understand how reckless it is to post an overly-simplified calculation and draw an even more narrow-minded conclusion from that calculation.
Since you spend some time at the Capitol, I would reccomend doing a little data mining via the Georgia Open Records Act to see how funds were allocated in our state. Let me see if I can help you out even though it blows a gigantic hole in your misinformed conclusion by providing a concrete example of how Federal spending works to the benefit of GA. citizens
The Low Income Housing Tax Credit Program (LIHTC), since 1986, has provided a cost effective means for the Government, through public/private partnerships, to produce low-income affordable housing for working citizens that make less than the Area Median Income. Without going into extensive detail, typically private investment capital is provided through large institutional banks that purchase tax credits as a direct means to reduce their taxable income and get Community Reinvestment Act points. In 2008, this market essentially came to a hault based on banks no longer having profits or an appetite for long-term real estate investment based on uncertainty in the equity market. As demand softened for a traditionally well-performing real estate investment compared to other real estate, construction literally came to a halt in Georgia as well as everywhere else in the country. This means Attorneys, Accountants, Commercial Developers, Engineering/Architectural firms and other private sector entities intricately involved in producing affordable housing would have to lay off PRIVATE citizens. Through ARRA, over $200 million was allocatd to our state for Affordable housing from Stimulus funding to fill this gap. Here’s the thing, the funding, like many other federal funds allocated to state and federal agencies via the Stimulus Bill is BUDGET NEUTRAL. This means the money is allocated annually regardless of who our President is and it didnt cost the tax payers one ADDITIONAL PENNY even though it was included in the Stimulus Package. In Georgia, many commercial projects are now under way because this funding filled that gap. Statistics have shown that 100 units of affordable housing produces 40 temporary jobs and supports 12 long-term jobs.
Bottom line is this, if banks halt lending and equity investment in commercial real estate in addition to other investment facilities, what other institution in our country has the capacity, expertise and long-term commitment to assist in funding capital investment in our economy besides the Government?
The stimulus funds were never intended to be the panacea to end all of our economic woes but merely a means to sustain our economy when we were on the brink of collapse. I will be the first to admit that the speed of the money getting into the system and seeing its effects took longer than perhaps what we all desired, but that’s more of an indictment of state/federal procedural effectiveness than it is of the need to protect jobs for all citizens, Republican and Democrat.
In doing your journalistic research to support your facts, I encourage you to do a quick google search of ARRA spending for housing, transportation and other Federal programs. Better yet, perhaps you should accompany John Oxedine, Sonny Perdue or any other politician as they go to the grand opening of these multifamily developments while at the same time speak in negative terms when discussing stimulus funding. All the while, they know exactly how it works.
You are educated Kyle but on this subject you are woefully uninformed.
Allen
February 24th, 2010
1:27 am
Kyle, this stimulus bill is hardly a pure a job-creation bill. It funds tax cuts, unemployment insurance, COBRA, payroll tax credits, Pell Grants, steel and concrete for direct job creation infrastructure projects, etc. Hence, your $130K/job valuation exercise above makes little sense to me.
The original premise of the post presupposes a constant velocity and supply of money. One can assess the interest rate the government must pay to examine whether government borrowing is crowding out private investment. And it’s not.
Real Athens
February 24th, 2010
8:47 am
Kyle:
You can answer your own question purely on the merits of your calculations. Given exactly what you wrote: If $130,000 kept a family’s home from falling into foreclosure; kept children out of a homeless shelter and in their same local school (not to mention the shame of being homeless; helped someone remain in college or in a technical school job re-training program; allowed a chronically ill person the ability to continue receiving meds to improve their quality of life; ad infinitum. How much IS it worth?
Most on these forums argue in absolutes when writing against something (the stimulus has done nothing) and toss in a little conjecture when statistics are cited to prove the opposite. We all do it.
What is the value of preventing human suffering and allowing the elderly, a husband/father or a small child to retain their dignity.
Those who identify themselves as “conservative” on here rail against the stimulus because it will choke the small businessman — although it hasn’t happened yet. Big box stores, multi-national corporations and giant agricultural conglomerates have already destroyed more small businesses (and large manufacturing jobs) in this country than the stimulus ever will.
I don’t expect you to ever agree with anyone who disagrees with you — same for Bookman, McKinney and DEFINITELY Wooten. You are all paid to to argue a position — in black and white — when the world is actually grey. If you falter in your task you might find yourself in the unemployment line. Your win at all costs, “ends justify the means”, take no prisoners approach to public discourse does a disservice to the public — it sells papers though.
When you homogenize the CBO report down to numbers and forecasts it reminds me of a quote attributed to Joseph Stalin: “one death is a tragedy, one million is a statistic.”
Fuzzy Math
February 24th, 2010
9:19 am
Real Athens:
Excellent Comments…The original post and subsequent posting of the cartoon underscores the shallow depth that the mainstream media does in its reporting and how divided we are as a nation because of our inability to think critically.
Thinking is often complex, emotional anger is simple. It’s easier to view politics through the lens of a sports fan than to actually account for all the nuances, paradoxes and inconsistencies of politics. It’s easier to just be unthinkingly loyal to one side rather than have to think through positions. It’s far easier to accept what a politician or radio host says than to judge it.
It’s easier to take all that anger at our country’s immense problems, simplify it and pick a side rather than to acknowledge the enormity of the systematic problems of which the two parties are contributors to and symptoms of. Many people want back to an outwardly simpler time before social unrest and dissent hit, when there was an enforced public conformity, which tends to be an idealized form of the 1950’s.
No More Progressives!
February 24th, 2010
2:07 pm
HDB
February 23rd, 2010
10:19 am
So defense spending didn’t create airplanes that were converted for commercial usage?
Last I checked, the employees worked for Boeing, McDonnel-Douglas, et al. They don’t work for the Federal Imperial Gub’mint.
Govt. policy help create an environment for the private sector to create jobs. Maybe that’s what you were thinking……………..you were thinking, right?