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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
120 comments Add your comment
sam
February 23rd, 2010
4:06 pm
i cant resist…that old jewish law you disregard, is taken directly from the bible! you know the word of god you take so literally. also, i dont know if there’s a god or not but there is way more proof behind evolution than in the existence of god…you talk in so many circle, its hard to follow or belive you’re serious….
LA
February 23rd, 2010
4:10 pm
“that old jewish law you disregard, is taken directly from the bible! you know the word of god you take so literally.”
Yep, and what you don’t seem to understand is the fact that in the old testament, jews( who is what you were quoting) lived under jewish law.
“is way more proof behind evolution than in the existence of god”
That MUST be why scientist all call it a THEORY!
If you truly believed in evolution, why not just go out and kill someone?
Survival of the fittest is what evolution is all about. No morals, nothing.
So, with that said, if you are a true evolutionist then you must not care about life or the lives of others.
“you talk in so many circle, its hard to follow or belive you’re serious….”
Awwwwwwwwwwwe………..
LA
February 23rd, 2010
4:15 pm
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives [a] any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him. 3 I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people; for by giving his children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 4 If the people of the community close their eyes when that man gives one of his children to Molech and they fail to put him to death, 5 I will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him and all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molech.
He was talking to Moses about the Jews.
Saying that the Bible tells Christians to kill gays is ridiculous. Especially since you can not point to any church that has gone out and killed a single gay.
sam
February 23rd, 2010
4:20 pm
thank you for proving my point…
Real Athens
February 23rd, 2010
4:20 pm
Please don’t let reality get in the way of all the conjecture spewed in this “forum”.
CBO: Stimulus bill created up to 2.1 million jobs
By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer – 3 mins ago
WASHINGTON The economic stimulus law added between 1 millionto 2.1 million workers to employment rolls by the end of last year, a new report released Tuesday by congressional economists said.
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office study also said the $862 billion stimulus added between 1.5 to 3.5 percentage points to the growth of the economy in 2009. The controversial stimulus law combined tax breaks for individuals and businesses with lots ofgovernment spending.
The report reflects agreement among economists that the measure boosted the economy. But the wide range of estimates means it won’t resolve the debate over how effective the stimulus has been.
The White House says the stimulus bill has created 2 million jobs and will add another 1.5 million this year as economic recovery continues to take hold.
CBO projects that the stimulus measure to have a greater impact this year, boosting gross domestic product by 1.4 to 4 percentage points and lowering the unemployment rate by 0.7 to 1.8 percentage points.
The report said the most efficient parts of the stimulus include infrastructure projects such as road- and bridge-building and more generous unemployment benefits. On the other hand, the popular first-time homebuyer tax credit isn’t a very efficient use of stimulus dollars, the report said.
The economy has shed 8.4 million jobs since the start of the recession in December of 2007, though job losses have slowed in the past couple of months.
The stimulus measure has earned mixed grades from a public weary of a bad economy and increasingly concerned about out-of-control budget deficits. Democrats are seeking to renew several parts of the stimulus, however, including aid for state governments and extended unemployment insurance benefits for the long-term jobless.
The White House acknowledges the long-term debt burden of the stimulus measure will place a slight drag on the economy in future years.
LA
February 23rd, 2010
4:24 pm
“thank you for proving my point…”
Which is?
Kyle Wingfield
February 23rd, 2010
4:45 pm
Real Athens: The use of “created” in that story is misleading. The CBO report does not distinguish between new jobs and existing jobs that were not eliminated. It also acknowledges that reporting by stimulus recipients indicates a much lower number of jobs (~600,000) and that the higher jobs figures are estimates based on mathematical models. It does not say whether the low estimate or the high estimate is more likely to be correct.
But let’s assume for a moment that the high estimate, 2.1 million jobs, is correct. CBO says the federal government — that is, taxpayers — spent $272 billion on the stimulus last year. So, almost $130,000 per job. Was it worth it?
KnowledgeDog
February 23rd, 2010
4:52 pm
Monroe Burbank , Clinton did not create jack S_iT, it was the private sector with capital investment in computer and communication equipment. It also went bust at the end of Clinton’s term. Also for you idiots out there, Clinton had a Republican congress (house and senate).
Linda
February 23rd, 2010
5:11 pm
CJ@3:47, If you owned a company that grossed a million dollars a year, that could be a good thing, unless your expenses were $999,999, in which case your net income was only a dollar.
More jobs have been lost than created since the Economic Stimulus Bill was passed.
Unemployment has INCREASED at least 2.5% since it was passed. The only job it created was that of Sen. Scott Brown.
Linda
February 23rd, 2010
5:35 pm
Sam@3:51, We canceled AARP when we learned they took bribe money from the govt. to sell out the elderly for the health care bill. The tote bag was after we canceled & I’m not bribed for totes.
We’re protesting how GM’s shareholders were treated & how the union was to receive preferential treatment in the health care bill, as was GE, who owns NBC, in Cap & Trade. The “green” movement will probably go down in history as the biggest hoax the government has every tried to pull on American taxpayers & probably in the world.
Intown Lib
February 23rd, 2010
5:43 pm
this cartoon is so oversimplified and just plain wrong. How does stimulus money going to infrastructure projects hurt the private sector? Answer: it doesn’t. The money goes to private contractors to build the projects. These private contractors would otherwise be sitting on their hands and bankrupt as commercial and residential construction is completely dead. In turn, good infrastructure can lead to sustaining existing growth or supporting new growth in the private sector in the future.
J.R.
February 23rd, 2010
5:55 pm
The cartoon is referring to the fact that government funded programs are paid for ultimately by the taxpayers. Hence, taking the shirt from his back. Get it?
neo-Carlinist
February 23rd, 2010
6:09 pm
LA, “survival of the fittest” is a term used by Herbert Spencer in his book Principles of Biology, which he penned after Darwin’s book Origin of Species, which dealt with “natural selection”. Survival of the fittest is a “theory”. Evolution and natural selection are part of the SCIENCE known as biology. and before you fire back with a Clinton-esque “define is” comment, let it go. I still believe in Santa Claus.
Linda
February 23rd, 2010
7:11 pm
IntownLib@5:45, The banks ARE lending. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have been able to pay back the TARP funds & bonuses. They have a choice of loaning to small businesses (pretty risky right now, usually unsecured), loaning to home owners @ 4.5% or loaning to the fed. govt. in the form of treasury bills @ 4.5% (almost risk-free). Banks are borrowing money from the Fed. Reserve at almost 0% & turning around & loaning it to the fed. govt. @ 4.5%. As long as the fed. govt. continues to spend money it does not have, it is hurting the private sector by competing with small businesses to obtain credit. The fed. govt. is causing unemployment to increase.
When do we stop building roads & bridges? When do we start focusing on printers, dry-cleaners, piano teachers, seamstresses & all millions of the Too Small To Help participants in our economy?
Michael H. Smith
February 23rd, 2010
7:13 pm
Reading between the liberal post lines of Kyle’s blog.
Please save/create my life long GUB’MENT job Dear Leader Obama mm, mm, mm. Those people in that old private sector owe me a life long GUB’MENT job and a good GUB’MENT taxpayer guaranteed pension to keep me in the opulence of which only chosen elites like me deserve.
Have you hugged a Bureaucrat today?
Fuzzy Math
February 23rd, 2010
9:04 pm
Kyle wrote:
“But let’s assume for a moment that the high estimate, 2.1 million jobs, is correct. CBO says the federal government — that is, taxpayers — spent $272 billion on the stimulus last year. So, almost $130,000 per job. Was it worth it?”
Kyle,
Given your practical experience at the Wall Street Journal and educational background, I’m sure you understand how reckless it is to post an overly-simplified calculation and draw an even more narrow-minded conclusion from that calculation.
Since you spend some time at the Capitol, I would reccomend doing a little data mining via the Georgia Open Records Act to see how funds were allocated in our state. Let me see if I can help you out even though it blows a gigantic hole in your misinformed conclusion by providing a concrete example of how Federal spending works to the benefit of GA. citizens
The Low Income Housing Tax Credit Program (LIHTC), since 1986, has provided a cost effective means for the Government, through public/private partnerships, to produce low-income affordable housing for working citizens that make less than the Area Median Income. Without going into extensive detail, typically private investment capital is provided through large institutional banks that purchase tax credits as a direct means to reduce their taxable income and get Community Reinvestment Act points. In 2008, this market essentially came to a hault based on banks no longer having profits or an appetite for long-term real estate investment based on uncertainty in the equity market. As demand softened for a traditionally well-performing real estate investment compared to other real estate, construction literally came to a halt in Georgia as well as everywhere else in the country. This means Attorneys, Accountants, Commercial Developers, Engineering/Architectural firms and other private sector entities intricately involved in producing affordable housing would have to lay off PRIVATE citizens. Through ARRA, over $200 million was allocatd to our state for Affordable housing from Stimulus funding to fill this gap. Here’s the thing, the funding, like many other federal funds allocated to state and federal agencies via the Stimulus Bill is BUDGET NEUTRAL. This means the money is allocated annually regardless of who our President is and it didnt cost the tax payers one ADDITIONAL PENNY even though it was included in the Stimulus Package. In Georgia, many commercial projects are now under way because this funding filled that gap. Statistics have shown that 100 units of affordable housing produces 40 temporary jobs and supports 12 long-term jobs.
Bottom line is this, if banks halt lending and equity investment in commercial real estate in addition to other investment facilities, what other institution in our country has the capacity, expertise and long-term commitment to assist in funding capital investment in our economy besides the Government?
The stimulus funds were never intended to be the panacea to end all of our economic woes but merely a means to sustain our economy when we were on the brink of collapse. I will be the first to admit that the speed of the money getting into the system and seeing its effects took longer than perhaps what we all desired, but that’s more of an indictment of state/federal procedural effectiveness than it is of the need to protect jobs for all citizens, Republican and Democrat.
In doing your journalistic research to support your facts, I encourage you to do a quick google search of ARRA spending for housing, transportation and other Federal programs. Better yet, perhaps you should accompany John Oxedine, Sonny Perdue or any other politician as they go to the grand opening of these multifamily developments while at the same time speak in negative terms when discussing stimulus funding. All the while, they know exactly how it works.
You are educated Kyle but on this subject you are woefully uninformed.
Allen
February 24th, 2010
1:27 am
Kyle, this stimulus bill is hardly a pure a job-creation bill. It funds tax cuts, unemployment insurance, COBRA, payroll tax credits, Pell Grants, steel and concrete for direct job creation infrastructure projects, etc. Hence, your $130K/job valuation exercise above makes little sense to me.
The original premise of the post presupposes a constant velocity and supply of money. One can assess the interest rate the government must pay to examine whether government borrowing is crowding out private investment. And it’s not.
Real Athens
February 24th, 2010
8:47 am
Kyle:
You can answer your own question purely on the merits of your calculations. Given exactly what you wrote: If $130,000 kept a family’s home from falling into foreclosure; kept children out of a homeless shelter and in their same local school (not to mention the shame of being homeless; helped someone remain in college or in a technical school job re-training program; allowed a chronically ill person the ability to continue receiving meds to improve their quality of life; ad infinitum. How much IS it worth?
Most on these forums argue in absolutes when writing against something (the stimulus has done nothing) and toss in a little conjecture when statistics are cited to prove the opposite. We all do it.
What is the value of preventing human suffering and allowing the elderly, a husband/father or a small child to retain their dignity.
Those who identify themselves as “conservative” on here rail against the stimulus because it will choke the small businessman — although it hasn’t happened yet. Big box stores, multi-national corporations and giant agricultural conglomerates have already destroyed more small businesses (and large manufacturing jobs) in this country than the stimulus ever will.
I don’t expect you to ever agree with anyone who disagrees with you — same for Bookman, McKinney and DEFINITELY Wooten. You are all paid to to argue a position — in black and white — when the world is actually grey. If you falter in your task you might find yourself in the unemployment line. Your win at all costs, “ends justify the means”, take no prisoners approach to public discourse does a disservice to the public — it sells papers though.
When you homogenize the CBO report down to numbers and forecasts it reminds me of a quote attributed to Joseph Stalin: “one death is a tragedy, one million is a statistic.”
Fuzzy Math
February 24th, 2010
9:19 am
Real Athens:
Excellent Comments…The original post and subsequent posting of the cartoon underscores the shallow depth that the mainstream media does in its reporting and how divided we are as a nation because of our inability to think critically.
Thinking is often complex, emotional anger is simple. It’s easier to view politics through the lens of a sports fan than to actually account for all the nuances, paradoxes and inconsistencies of politics. It’s easier to just be unthinkingly loyal to one side rather than have to think through positions. It’s far easier to accept what a politician or radio host says than to judge it.
It’s easier to take all that anger at our country’s immense problems, simplify it and pick a side rather than to acknowledge the enormity of the systematic problems of which the two parties are contributors to and symptoms of. Many people want back to an outwardly simpler time before social unrest and dissent hit, when there was an enforced public conformity, which tends to be an idealized form of the 1950’s.
No More Progressives!
February 24th, 2010
2:07 pm
HDB
February 23rd, 2010
10:19 am
So defense spending didn’t create airplanes that were converted for commercial usage?
Last I checked, the employees worked for Boeing, McDonnel-Douglas, et al. They don’t work for the Federal Imperial Gub’mint.
Govt. policy help create an environment for the private sector to create jobs. Maybe that’s what you were thinking……………..you were thinking, right?