Giving students choices is no laughing matter
Have you heard the one about the priest, the rabbi and the Baptist minister who went to a political rally? This one’s no joke.
To understand what was special about Thursday’s school-choice rally at the state Capitol, you didn’t have to hear what was said or feel the freezing temperatures which more than 100 attendees braved.
You had to look at the crowd, which didn’t look at all like what the machinery of the education status quo would have you believe. It was a crowd that was multiracial, multi-ethnic and multi-faith.
The minorities present were not token representatives. They were a reflection of the fact that school choice — including charter schools and vouchers — is an issue that concerns all Georgians, not just a privileged few.
So much so that, in imploring the crowd to remain persistent, Rich Thompson, a Southwest Atlanta parent and school-choice advocate, chose to cite a dictum from the abolitionist Frederick Douglass: “Power concedes nothing without a demand.”
So much so that when Senate Majority Leader Chip Rogers described school choice as “the moral calling of our time” and compared it to the civil rights movement, no one in the crowd blinked.
School choice brings together blacks and whites, the rich and the poor, Catholics and Protestants and Jews and the unaffiliated, even Republicans and Democrats. That fact is one of the least remarked attributes of the cause.
Here’s another: Despite the urgency of improving education for Georgia’s children, and the radicalism of which they’re accused, school-choice supporters have been awfully willing to accept incrementalism.
Shaking up an old and ineffective system, an apt description for much of public education in Georgia, does require some radicalism. We need to do something radically different if we’re to achieve radical improvement.
Still, patience has been the practice.
First came vouchers for children with special needs. Those kids now can spend the state tax dollars allocated for their education at the school of their choice. (Note that this option includes other traditional public schools as well as charters and private schools.)
Now, Rogers proposes vouchers for Georgia’s 15,000 foster kids and tens of thousands of children in military families.
Combine this incremental approach to vouchers with the tendency of charter schools to spring up in areas where students can’t afford other options, and it’s clear that school-choice supporters are keeping their word about first serving those with the greatest needs.
It’s a good-faith effort to earn the public’s trust little by little. Compare that to the “comprehensive” overhaul of health care and restriction of carbon emissions — whether you like them or not — favored by the left.
Amid the patience, however, Thompson reminds us that thousands of kids’ futures are at stake.
“I understand the rationale for incremental progress,” he told me after the rally. “But my daughter will only be in the fifth grade one time. So I don’t have the time or the patience for gradually fixing the [Atlanta] middle school system.”
All the more reason for school-choice advocates to take heart from their achievements so far, but also to view them as motivation to keep going.
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147 comments Add your comment
Kyle Wingfield
February 22nd, 2010
12:50 pm
That’s a good list, HDB. But I would argue that a) there’s nothing about those qualities that is unique to public schools (you might disagree about diversity, but again — the vision here is of education options that do not and cannot exist in the current arrangement), and b) there are kids who are not getting those things from their current public schools and who may never get them unless they have another option.
The idea that school choice is an assault on public education is a lie perpetuated chiefly by the agents of the status quo. Education and politics are two of the only areas in American life today where we have few or no choices. I fail to see how that’s a good thing.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:03 pm
HDB`
Bottom line: It’s up to the parents to raise their child. Not this imaginary “village” that Hillary Clinton advocates.
HDB`
February 22nd, 2010
1:05 pm
Kyle — the problem with the word CHOICE (as it has been used in the argument) is the ELIMINATION of some things at the behest of others. Let me give an example from PERSONAL history:
When I was going to high school, due to overcrowding, the majority-minority schools were placed on double-session….meaning reduced teaching times and reduced credits. My mother, being a teacher, transferred my to a school where I was the only minority because of the efffects that the double-session would have upon me when considering higher education. The elimination of comparable teaching times led to my being transferred…..and in that new environment, there were teachers who did NOT want to teach me…and I suffered academically!! When the double-session experiment failed, I returned to a good school on my side of town…and I flourished academically!!
With choice, teachers have to be able to teach to ALL students, not just those whom they desire to succeed……and some can’t!!
The key to choice should be in the CURRICULUM…and the choices that each school offers; some schools should be math/scienc/computer magnets; others, industrial arts; some geared towards medicine……In Atlanta, there was an opportunity to go to a school that offered Aviation courses as well as Math and Science; many of those students progressed to gain their pilot’s license!! THAT’S where CHOICE should lie….in the CURRICULUM!!! To make choice available…..each school should have a flexible curriculum in order to create varied interests in a student body…and be able to attract those students desiring that focus!!!
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:06 pm
“Affirmative Action granted ACCESS to those who were previously denied such”
Yep, and it served it’s purpose but it’s long overdue to kill it. Minorities have even MORE choices than they ever have before.
Affirmative action to me says that people are not good enough so the government has to “make” it good enough for them.
HDB`
February 22nd, 2010
1:10 pm
LA — Yes AND No!! Parents ARE the key; I will totally agree with that….but there ARE external influences that can either make or break a student’s desire to succeed! THAT is the village analogy!!
Many people who have positive influences in their lives — teachers, doctors, ministers…….use them as examples as to how to progress……and they do so!! They follow the paths of those whom set the example…and they, themselves, become positive role models for children and others!! Those who have negative influences around them tend to be unsuccessful!! In a literal sense, it DOES take a village…..because of the external influences that fall upon people!!
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:11 pm
HDB`
Another point to your disdain for private schools. Private schools are expensive because they don’t get funding from taxpayers. Private schools are better because the majority of students there are there because their parents want them to have a better education. Smaller classrooms mean that the teacher can spend more time teaching instead of having to discipline unruly students. My sister taught in public schools for a few years and now teaches in a private school. She has an array of students ranging from black, hispanic, white and asian. She is not in a teachers union and guess what? Her students are all A B students. She doesn’t have to cheat in order to pass her kids.
Public schools are a mess and I don’t care how much money you throw at it. More taxpayer money doesn’t equal better students.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:12 pm
“THAT is the village analogy!!”
And it doesn’t work. Never has never will.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:13 pm
“Many people who have positive influences in their lives — teachers, doctors, ministers…….use them as examples as to how to progress……and they do so!!”
Yet, my doctor, pastor or teachers never raised me. My parents did.
Key word there: PARENTS. PLURAL.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:15 pm
“In a literal sense, it DOES take a village…..because of the external influences that fall upon people!!”
What you’re talking about is black people. I’m going to bring race into this for a second.
1: People like you, and I don’t mean to insult you, believe that because minorities have this “baby mama” mentality where the baby daddy gets the woman pregnant and runs off to impregnate some other person.
2: It doesn’t work and the black family in this country is in shambles.
Bottom line: It takes TWO parents to raise a child. MOM AND DAD.
HDB`
February 22nd, 2010
1:17 pm
‘Yep, and it served it’s purpose but it’s long overdue to kill it. Minorities have even MORE choices than they ever have before.” Not in all cases….there are still areas wherein minority representation is still lacking…therefore, it’s still needed! Maybe not at the extent of prior years….but still…..
“Affirmative action to me says that people are not good enough so the government has to “make” it good enough for them.” — False presumption, my friend! What AA does is EXPAND the possibilities for those who may not have had the opportunity!! Also….what AA attempts to do is to keep the rules the SAME for all…..for in many cases, those in the majority change the rules to keep the minority at bay!! Note: when the AA program at the University of Michigan was dismantled by law, minority enrollment DROPPED 30%! The majority has an AA Program in colleges — it’s called LEGACY!!
Kyle Wingfield
February 22nd, 2010
1:19 pm
HDB: That’s my point exactly: Choice advocates are not talking about eliminating anything…except for the quasi-monopoly that the traditional public school system has on students without the means to opt out.
Note also that most of these kids don’t have the ability to move to another school the way you did. I’m glad you were able to get out of a bad situation. What if all the other kids had had the same opportunity? Don’t you think a lot of them would be better off now?
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:21 pm
“Not in all cases….there are still areas wherein minority representation is still lacking…therefore, it’s still needed! Maybe not at the extent of prior years….but still…..”
Like what?
“False presumption, my friend!”
Not at all. It’s my observation from years of this mess.
“Note: when the AA program at the University of Michigan was dismantled by law, minority enrollment DROPPED 30%! ‘
Yeah, because they knew that low test scores could no longer get them into Michigan.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:23 pm
HDB`
By the way, vouchers help poor kids who want a better education, to get into these so-called “elite schools” that you seem to rail on.
My sister has several students that used vouchers to get in. They love it!
Obama took vouchers away from kids in DC who went to nice private schools. His daughters now attend private schools.
By the way, do you know that the overwhelming majority of democrat senators kids go to private schools?
Yep.
HDB`
February 22nd, 2010
1:24 pm
LA: I went to both public and private schools; the quality was similar in both!! I don’t disdain the private schools…but there are different missions that each must fulfill! To eliminate one will not supercede the other….
I’m NOT bringing race into it…but…..as a personal example:
I was raised by a single parent from the age of 9…..but the external influences I had in my life were all positive: school teachers, professors, ministers, businessmen….PROFESSIONALS!! They were the guiding focus…along with my mother….as to how to achieve success!! Using them as models, I served in the military, got my degrees….and became a positive influence to my kids!!! Race has nothing to do with it…..but the environment in which I was raised….where education is PRIZED and challenges desired IS the key!!!
“Baby mama and baby daddy” means irresponsibility……THAT I don’t believe in!! There ARE single parents who are responsible for their kids….and THEY don’t get the credit they’re due!!
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:28 pm
“They were the guiding focus…along with my mother….as to how to achieve success!!’
BUT they did not raise you. They didn’t make life decisions for you. They did not cloth and feed you.
“There ARE single parents who are responsible for their kids….and THEY don’t get the credit they’re due!!”
I know that but the majority of women who have to raise their kids due to a dead beat dad ARE the ones living off of taxpayer money.
Bottom line: People need to make better life choices.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:30 pm
HDB`
Lets look at private and public schools for a second.
In a private school, if the headmaster or teacher steals money from the school they get fired and sued.
If a superintendent or teacher steals taxpayer money they get a slap on the wrist.
HDB`
February 22nd, 2010
1:34 pm
LA – Here’s the question: Why cut funding to schools when there are other possibilities that have yet to be reviewed?? If one desires to keep taxes low…..wouldn’t you want effective changes in the public system so that EVERYONE can receive a quality education!! Vouchers are cost-prohibitive in many cases, for who makes up the difference between the voucher and the actual cost of the private school???
Obama’s girls attend Sidwell Friends due to SECURITY concerns…not just the educational pursuits! They can afford the tuition….but they are not advocating cutting funding to public schools! I do not begrudge anyone who can afford the best…….but do not remove funding from those who use the public systems towards their achievement of success!!
There are some people who just aren’t good teat takers…but once in college, they flourish!! That has happened in numerous schools nationwide…..note – Clarence Thomas is a prime example!! Why cut a program that allowed HIM to flourish??
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:36 pm
“Why cut funding to schools when there are other possibilities that have yet to be reviewed??”
No one is advocating cutting funding. Again, your words not mine.
“Obama’s girls attend Sidwell Friends due to SECURITY concerns”
Then explain his kids going to private schools when he lived in Chicago. BEFORE he was famous.
chuck
February 22nd, 2010
1:37 pm
Kyle, I agree that there is plenty of room for improvement. The first step should not be taking kids whose parents are finacially able and educationally motivated OUT of public schools. It should be removing students who are disruptive from traditional public schools. We are so afraid to make examples of kids who SHOULD be made to behave. That is one of the most difficult things that teachers in so-called failing schools face. I don’t think people realize how difficult it is to be a good student in the face of pressure to do the opposite. Also, we should ask ourselves how ONE TEST determines whether or not a school is considered successful.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:39 pm
chuck
BINGO! No discipline in schools anymore. The “time-out” mentality has produced stupid kids.
HDB`
February 22nd, 2010
1:40 pm
LA: “BUT they did not raise you.” But they DID!! For the lack of male influences, they were my surrogates! They assisted me in making many of my life’s decisions…….they were the models in which my decisions were BASED!!
“There ARE single parents who are responsible for their kids….and THEY don’t get the credit they’re due!!”
I know that but the majority of women who have to raise their kids due to a dead beat dad ARE the ones living off of taxpayer money. – Not true…..that’s what the media wants people to believe; the preponderance of people raising their kids without a father are working HARD to get their children the education and living conditions condusive to progressing in this society!! I’ve seen this personally!!
“Lets look at private and public schools for a second. In a private school, if the headmaster or teacher steals money from the school they get fired and sued;if a superintendent or teacher steals taxpayer money they get a slap on the wrist.”
Not true…in both situations, one can be fired…sued…sanctioned………there are criminal and civil sanctions at play…..
HDB`
February 22nd, 2010
1:45 pm
If you take a voucher to pay for a private school….and the voucher is taken from public school funds, then the public funds are being CUT!! If you have a school of 1000 students…and you take 10% from that school in vouchers, you’ve cut funding 10% and the costs remain the same. In order to compensate for that loss of funds….revenue must be acquired…i.e., TAX INCREASE to fund the loss!
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:55 pm
“LA: “BUT they did not raise you.” But they DID!! For the lack of male influences, they were my surrogates! They assisted me in making many of my life’s decisions…….they were the models in which my decisions were BASED!!”
So they paid for your food, clothed you, put a roof over your head etc…?
“Not true…..that’s what the media wants people to believe; the preponderance of people raising their kids without a father are working HARD to get their children the education and living conditions condusive to progressing in this society!! I’ve seen this personally!!”
Media???????? Nope, I look at the numbers, pal. The numbers don’t lie.
“Not true…in both situations, one can be fired…sued…sanctioned………there are criminal and civil sanctions at play…..”
BULLCRAP! It is true. Government officials don’t get fired, they get a slap on the wrist. HELLO CLAYTON COUNTY!!!!!!!
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:56 pm
“and the voucher is taken from public school funds, then the public funds are being CUT!!”
GREAT!!!!!
“If you have a school of 1000 students…and you take 10% from that school in vouchers, you’ve cut funding 10% and the costs remain the same.”
And that 10% will get a better education. GREAT!
“TAX INCREASE to fund the loss!”
ONLY if a democrat is in charge!
LA
February 22nd, 2010
1:58 pm
HDB`
No offense but cheerleading for the government doesn’t fly well in the south. Maybe you should move to Chicago or Detroit where teachers unions have driven up taxes and ruined public schools.
chuck
February 22nd, 2010
2:06 pm
Hey Kyle, what is your opinion about NCLB?
HDB
February 22nd, 2010
2:14 pm
LA: Question: what if you’re cutting funding from a high-performing school?? What gets to me is that people just want to cut funding with a meat cleaver rather than a scapel!! I’ve lived in Chicago, Minneapolis, and Des Moines……there are high-achieving schools as well as poorly-achieving schools! You don’t kill the best just to get to the worst!! I’m not saying that government knows best….but those who think that government is the enemy and free markets are best…..it’s not just the case!! If it weren’t for some facets of government, the free market couldn’t be accessed by EVERYONE; if the free market were unbridled, too many people would get screwed….so governmental controls ARE necessary to ensure that capitalism operates for EVERYONE…not just the wealthy!!
HDB
February 22nd, 2010
2:15 pm
LA – Numbers CAN lie…….
Kyle Wingfield
February 22nd, 2010
2:18 pm
I understand and agree with the sentiment, chuck, but I’m not sure they got it quite right.
For instance, it might make more sense to set a series of goals for progress (e.g., xx percent each year, or an average of xx percent over any three-year period) rather than setting a date certain by which every school, regardless of where it started, has to reach 100 percent.
HDB
February 22nd, 2010
2:19 pm
LA: It’s not JUST food, shelter, clothing that makes an influence positive; it’s the guidance, the knowledge, it’s the perspective that this taught!! My father was not absent…but the influence these men played in my life was just as important….and they were the EXAMPLE of the pathway towards success! Many kids don’t have the EXAMPLES that I had…so their perspective is one only of failure……..THAT’S why it DOES take a village……
Kyle Wingfield
February 22nd, 2010
2:20 pm
It’s unlikely, HDB, that many voucher recipients would leave high-performing schools. In fact, one good thing about the step-by-step approach is that it allows us to focus first on the groups that need help the most.
Overall, something like 7 percent of voucher-eligible kids change schools. We are not talking about a mass exodus.
HDB
February 22nd, 2010
2:22 pm
Kyle: Question: On NCLB…would you set the standards as towards performance on a standardized test vs. knowledge based on testing from a rounded curriculum??
My problem with NCLB (besides it being an unfunded mandate) is the persistence on standardized testing, for all students are NOT good test takers!!!
LA
February 22nd, 2010
2:22 pm
“what if you’re cutting funding from a high-performing school??”
I am not cutting anything. I am not in charge of schools.
“I’m not saying that government knows best”
Yes you are. That’s all you’ve ever written.
“so governmental controls ARE necessary to ensure that capitalism operates for EVERYONE…not just the wealthy!!”
You just contradicted yourself.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
2:22 pm
“Numbers CAN lie…when democrats are in charge.”
There, fixed your typo.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
2:23 pm
“THAT’S why it DOES take a village……”
Communist much?
LA
February 22nd, 2010
2:24 pm
“for all students are NOT good test takers!!!”
I agree with you there. Schools kill creativity. Public schools, this is my experience, teach that a kid should go to college to be a doctor, lawyer, teacher or engineer.
We need more arts programs for kids.
HDB
February 22nd, 2010
2:25 pm
Kyle – an incremental approach is fine…but too many people just want to CUT-CUT-CUT without looking at the after effects!! High-performing schools should be the model as to how to change public education….not just vouchers!!! To change poor schools into high performing schools, use the high performing schools as the template!!
LA
February 22nd, 2010
2:26 pm
“it’s the guidance, the knowledge, it’s the perspective that this taught!!”
Again, that is not raising a kid. Guidance from a teacher is not the same thing as raising a kid.
Your teachers did not feed you, cloth you or put a roof over your head.
What you are advocating is communism.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
2:26 pm
“To change poor schools into high performing schools, use the high performing schools as the template!!”
I 100% guarantee you that the poor performing schools are those who’s parents are absent from their kids lives.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
2:30 pm
HDB
If “it takes a village to raise a child” then explain all of the millions of kids who are raised by two parents who turn out great?
HDB
February 22nd, 2010
2:30 pm
LA – there is NO contradiction in saying that governmental controls over the free market allow access to that market for all…..there are areas where governmental control is required to ensure the market works!!
Schools kill creativity by funding CUTS! Note when school budgets come out, the first thing to get CUT is the Arts!! Not only did I learn math and sciences…but the arts, music, and PE!!
It’s not communistic to say that external influences do affect a child’s motivation…..a commuunity can be as vast as the nation…or as close-knit as a block! You can’t tell me that you didn’t have a close knit community…where people looked after one another?? I did….and most of us did!!
HDB
February 22nd, 2010
2:33 pm
Hey, LA…there are kids with TWO parents that turn out to be not-so-good also; it’s a blanket indictment that only two-parent families turn out top-flight kids!! Several judges came from single-parent families; it was also influence by GRANDPARENTS, UNCLES…extended FAMILY in lieu of a father that made people turn out well!!
Guidance when a parent isn’t there may be what the child needs…it’s not communism, it’s reality!!
LA
February 22nd, 2010
2:36 pm
“there are areas where governmental control is required to ensure the market works!!’
Where? You constantly rail on rich people so I’m left to believe that you hate rich people.
Did it ever occur to you that democrat politicians are rich?
“You can’t tell me that you didn’t have a close knit community…where people looked after one another??”
Looking out for other people and RAISING people are two different things. My neighbors didn’t teach me right from wrong or put food on my table. My mom and dad did that.
“I did….and most of us did!!”
So you now represent every American? Doubtful.
“there is NO contradiction in saying that governmental controls over the free market allow access to that market for all”
It is when you say that you are not for government control but then write about government control being necessary.
Bottom line: People like you also believe that most people are not capable of handling their own money but government is.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
2:38 pm
“there are kids with TWO parents that turn out to be not-so-good also”
Well DUHHHHHHH! No kidding. But that doesn’t mean that the government could do a better job.
“it was also influence by GRANDPARENTS, UNCLES…extended FAMILY in lieu of a father that made people turn out well!!”
Key word being FAMILY. Not government.
“Guidance when a parent isn’t there may be what the child needs…it’s not communism, it’s reality!!”
But you were not talking about extended family. You were advocating government.
LA
February 22nd, 2010
2:39 pm
HDB
Your beloved democrat party is full of rich people. Go rail on them about how evil and rich they are.
Also, those democrat senators ALL send their kids to private schools.
chuck
February 22nd, 2010
3:44 pm
Kyle, as a conservative, I see NCLB as a FEDERAL TAKEOVER of Education. To me it is every bit as bad as the Federal Takeover of Healthcare.
Too many Georgia Republicans are voting like liberals | Kyle Wingfield
May 27th, 2010
5:19 pm
[...] there are the education bills, such as extending school vouchers to foster kids and military families, that won’t even get a vote in the Senate. Too many Republicans were afraid in an election year [...]