Is this how unions die?
Slate’s Mickey Kaus suggests that, now that they have an ownership stake to think about, the United Auto Workers may be rethinking the way they’ve always approached, well, auto workers:
News that workers at the plant making batteries for the new Chevy Volt might not be union (UAW) members provoked this wacky, largely uninformed thought: Maybe the UAW doesn’t really want the future Chevy workers to be unionized. Why? Because the UAW has basically cut a deal with GM that protects its existing members in their $28 an hour (plus benefits) jobs, but give new, future hires a much worse deal: $15 an hour jobs. If those new workers are UAW members, they will be able to lobby within the union (and, more significantly, vote) to equalize the pay of the old-timers and newcomers at some intermediate level– say $22 an hour. Why would existing UAW members want that? Better to keep the newbies out and exploit them for all they are worth in order to subsidize the cushy, unsustainable deal the UAW veterans enjoy. … It would almost be as if the existing UAW members had become the profit-seeking owners of the company! … Oh wait. …. (links original)
Was the auto bailout was a back-door method of stopping UAW members from finishing off the golden goose? (As opposed to the front-door method of putting GM through a real bankruptcy proceeding.) If so, it was an awfully expensive alternative.
Related: Rhode Island town fires all unionized teachers after dispute over (25 minutes) working time. (H/t: Instapundit)
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256 comments Add your comment
The Tar and Feathers Party
February 16th, 2010
10:16 am
Atlanta is soooo broke, the mayor is thinking of resigning, something about there being no money there to steal, imho,.
The Tar and Feathers Party
February 16th, 2010
10:18 am
Break that Union, hey, Break that Union, hey (sung to whatever tune turns you on).
Jefferson
February 16th, 2010
10:27 am
I was hoping you were talking about political unions.
The Tar and Feathers Party
February 16th, 2010
10:31 am
Unions are like politicians, out for themselves only.
Jess
February 16th, 2010
10:44 am
Unions members have allways had a relatively simple objective. Do what’s best for me. This usually means more stuff like money and benefits, or a better working environment. Sometimes this might mean making some concessions, but only when it becomes clear that the provider of that stuff may go out of business without the concessions. So even then they do what’s best for me.
Companies, on the other hand, have a complex balancing act. Every decision has to take into account profits, stockholders, employees, communities, public image, and in a short term/long term context.
It will be interesting to see how they handle being in a situation where “me first” may get them into trouble.
LA
February 16th, 2010
10:51 am
Unions have ruined American industry. The majority of American’s despise unions because they are corrupt and belong to corrupt democrats.
The Tar and Feathers Party
February 16th, 2010
11:03 am
Unions are also destroying city governments and finances. The de-facto teachers union in Georgia is destroying State finances with their voting in block for which ever candidate promises more money and bennies. Break that union, break that union….
Adolph's Quick-cuts
February 16th, 2010
11:20 am
Always look for the union label. (to know what not to buy)
India is manufacturing $2k NEW CARS! They don’t have unions.
GM wont survive if they have to cmpete with India’s labor market.
LeeH1
February 16th, 2010
11:23 am
Good companies compete agaisnt other companies. They try to make a better product, or make it more efficiently, or market it better to the public.
Bad companies compete against their workers, to see how little they can pay them and how much they can screw ‘em.
The worst companies outsource to another country to use their cheap labor, in order to sell their higher profitable goods to American workers who are unemployed in the US.
Good companies don;t need unions. Bad and worse companies need them badly.
So does America.
misplaced
February 16th, 2010
11:28 am
Yeah lets trash the auto workers the nerve of them being one of the largest work forces in this country, making 15 to 30 bucks an hour with benefits.
They should be like Walmart workers you know the single largest employer in this country whose wages are 7 to 12 bucks an hour and no benefits.
Jefferson
February 16th, 2010
11:45 am
Nobody makes companies sign labor agreements with labor unions and nobody should be forced into a union. Good policy, fair pay and well managed companies need not worry about unions.
Horrible Horrace
February 16th, 2010
12:20 pm
DIE UNIONS…DIE!!!
The Tar and Feathers Party
February 16th, 2010
12:38 pm
Corporate Motto: The cat-of-nine-tails is the greatest labor-management innovation of all time.
Williebkind
February 16th, 2010
12:46 pm
Wow! I am still stuck on the teachers making 72-78K per annum while in an area who average income is 22k. Now add insult to injury toward the tax payer, the teachers are not performing to standard. OMG. Where are the teachers on the blogs now? I am in shock. Unions did good things for the worker but has pushed the envelope way to far. The unions must be driven out.
Williebkind
February 16th, 2010
12:48 pm
Where I have difficulty is that the democrats are for unions but hate corporations. What is with that?
Williebkind
February 16th, 2010
12:49 pm
misplaced
February 16th, 2010
11:28 am
Yeah and that is why Americans are buying foreign cars–they are far cheaper and last longer.
JB
February 16th, 2010
1:01 pm
It only took two days but apparently the test cheating scandal has been solved- at least to the AJC’s satisfaction. I don’t see any stories about it today. Way to toxic I guess since it throws mud on the Dems favorite constituents-unions members and urban blacks.
JB
HDB
February 16th, 2010
1:15 pm
All of those who are anti-union wish for working conditions to deteriorate into sweatshops, desire corporations to set working standards, wish to return to child labor…..WOW!!
Unions made American corporations make their working environments safer..AND more productive! True, there are problems with unions, but for what it’s worth, they made the standard of living better for ALL Amwericans…amd allowed many Americans to REACH middle class status!!
If you want to blame someone for the demise of the American car industry, BLAME MANAGEMENT!! They made the decision to make cars that Americans DIDN’T want….or couldn’t afford! Management made the decision to make gas guzzlers rather than fuel-efficient cars! MANAGEMENT made the decisions NOT to negotiate in good faith!! There ar issues on both side….but MANAGEMENT makes the corporate decisions…not the union workers!!
Put the blame where it should REALLY lie!!
Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2010
1:16 pm
Let’s see, JB: Jay Bookman wrote his column today about the scandal; our education blogger, Maureen Downey, has two posts about it today; and Political Insider has a post on the response to the scandal. And the investigation was spurred in large part by an investigative series the AJC did about suspicious score increases in the first place.
Yep, we’re just sweeping it under the rug.
Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2010
1:18 pm
HDB, re: your comment “All of those who are anti-union wish for working conditions to deteriorate into sweatshops, desire corporations to set working standards, wish to return to child labor…..WOW!!”
I think you’re too smart to actually think that it’s either a) have unions, or b) “deteriorate into sweatshops.”
HDB
February 16th, 2010
1:19 pm
@Williebkind: Unions look out for the little guy; management, in many cases, would not negotiate in good faith to seek common ground! If you want to see how unions and management DO work together for the betterment of a company, look at Southwest Airlines. Management and unions negotiate….and settle with a HANDSHAKE!! They negotiate in GOOD FAITH!! Much of Corporate America desires to maximize profit on the heads of the employees. If you take care of your employees, they will take care of the company!!
HDB
February 16th, 2010
1:25 pm
Kyle….if unions had not existed, what WOULD current working conditions be?? Would we not have child labor?? Look at working conditions in industries in “right-to-work” states versus those industries that are unionized??
Those who ARE anti-union seem to want to go back to sweatshop…or slave labor….and only the corporation profits!
American corporations are OFF-SHORING in order to depress wages and maximize profits….look at Nike……
Unions protect American workers against unscrupulous management…and that IS surely needed!!
scrappy
February 16th, 2010
1:26 pm
The anti-union sentiment in the south is amazing. Why do you like being a “right to work” state? Which, when you take the politics out of it, really means “right to be fired” at will by employers for any reason.
Adolph – Saying that India doesn’t have unions and therefore makes cars for 2k is completely idiotic.
I really do want a rational and intelligent explanation of why southerns prefer the “right to work” state?
Swede Atlanta
February 16th, 2010
1:28 pm
LA, there you go again, making statements without facts.
I don’t agree that most Americans despise unions. I think many Americans believe, right or wrong, that unions have created problems for certain industries such as the automobile manufacturing triad in Detroit. I think many Americans believe that the unions are both susceptible to and have engaged in collusion and corruption. But do they despise unions? I’m not sure that is true. Do you have any objective information to back up your claim?
I think if you asked most Americans do they believe that workers should be able to organize and collectively bargain for wages, benefits and work rules the answer would be a resounding yes.
Have the unions typically aligned themselves behind the Democratic party? Yes. That is because Democrats have long stood for the rights of unions to organize and improve the lives of their members.
Have unions destroyed American manufacturing? I’m not sure you can make that claim in the global context. Unions throughout Europe are very strong and carry much more political and economic clout than their American counterparts.
So the question becomes what have the American unions done to say GM, Ford or Chrysler that brought them close to the dustheap that Europeans haven’t done to Volkswagen, Fiat, etc.? I suggest that one big difference is the fact that American unions have fought hard with respect to health benefits, something their European counterparts don’t worry about.
So Ford, GM and Chrysler are carrying a very heavy burden for health care benefits, even for retirees that companies in Europe don’t. That makes it more difficult for our companies to compete on price.
While leads us back to a fundamental question of how we deal with healthcare in this country. Company-funded healthcare saddles our businesses with that burden because employees lack choice in obtaining healthcare any other way at reasonable prices.
HDB
February 16th, 2010
1:35 pm
Swede-Atlanta: You are VERY MUCH ON POINT!!
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:38 pm
“All of those who are anti-union wish for working conditions to deteriorate into sweatshops”
I have worked in a non-union environment for 30 plus years and have never encountered a sweat shop.
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:39 pm
“there you go again, making statements without facts. ”
Then that MUST be why GM and other pro-union companies have gone bust!
Again, America hates unions. The teachers unions have ruined education and the auto unions have ruined American car companies.
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:40 pm
HDB
You stated a few days ago that you put 100% into your job. If that is true, then what are you doing here?
Looks to me like you are wasting taxpayer money.
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:40 pm
“Have the unions typically aligned themselves behind the Democratic party? Yes. That is because Democrats have long stood for the rights of unions to organize and improve the lives of their members.”
LOLOLOLOL
No, democrats love them because they get large sums of money from them.
Bottom line: Union membership has been in decline for a long time.
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:41 pm
“.if unions had not existed, what WOULD current working conditions be??”
They’d be great.
Swede Atlanta
February 16th, 2010
1:42 pm
LA, your response substantiates my claim that you have no facts.
Your assertions are:
(1) GM and other pro-union companies (do you think GM is pro-union? I doubt that) have gone bust BECAUSE of the unions
(2) America hates unions. I didn’t know America was a person. Do you mean Americans hate unions?
(3) Teachers unions have ruined education
(4) Auto unions have ruined American car companies
These are all assertions without a single fact to back them up.
These may be your opinions but please don’t make such statements as if they were statements of truth unless you have facts to support them.
RAMBLE ON!!!
February 16th, 2010
1:43 pm
If you are in a Union, you are either:
A). Lazy
B). A Thug
C). An Idiot
D). All the above.
Kyle Wingfield
February 16th, 2010
1:47 pm
There you go again, HDB. The choice is not between a) having a large union influence today, or b) having never had unions in this country. Unions served their purpose in history, no doubt. But at some point they started to have an increasingly negative influence. Moving away from that influence is not the same thing as undoing the good that they did achieve.
scrappy: Where has job growth been strongest in recent decades? Right-to-work states or the others?
Swede Atlanta is correct that unions are stronger and have much more clout in Europe than in the U.S. Unmentioned is that European unions tend to protect their own jobs at the expense of the unemployed. That’s one big reason why Europe historically has had higher unemployment rates than the U.S. has, particularly for young people.
HDB
February 16th, 2010
1:49 pm
LA: I’ve worked in both uion and non-union environments; the mentality in the non-union environment has been one closer to SLAVERY than working with the employees for the betterment of the company. In an union environment, I’ve discovered that conditions were better and management was more receptive to employee concerns.
America does NOT hate unions…if it weren’t for unions, many working conditions would be akin to slave labor….particularly in the South!! They DO hate the corruption and arrogance of the union…but NOT what the union has generated for its workers. Management needs to care for its employees….and make an atmosphere where the employees have a vested interest in making the company better!! If THAT were the case in all companies….Americans could really show how well we would perform on the global stage!!
When CEOs make over 1400 times what an employee makes…..takes stock options….while FIRING over a third of the work force…….the anumus SHOULD go towards MANAGEMENT!!
Ben & Jerry’s CEOs only make 12 times the LOWEST employee…and look how profitable that company is!!
TAKE CARE OF YOUR EMPLOYEES….THEY’LL TAKE CARE OF THE COMPANY!!
RAMBLE ON!!!
February 16th, 2010
1:49 pm
Let’s hope that school superintendent in R.I. runs for Patrick (the drug addict, not be confused with the Alcoholic) Kennedy’s seat.
She would win in a landslide.
That’s who we need in D.C.
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:49 pm
“LA, your response substantiates my claim that you have no facts.”
GM and Delta Airlines went bankrupt largely due to unions. Fact.
“These are all assertions without a single fact to back them up.”
1: GM is a unionized company and now the government and the unions own GM. GM will go bust eventually. FACT.
2: Americans hate unions. The reason I know this is because union membership has been on the decline for years.
3: Teachers unions have ruined education. Yep, they have. They put themselves ahead of their jobs.
“These may be your opinions but please don’t make such statements as if they were statements of truth unless you have facts to support them.”
The Decline of Union Power
The Decline of Union Power
http://economics.about.com/od/laborinamerica/a/union_decline.htm
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:49 pm
Teachers’ unions are ruining our kids schools
http://www.examiner.com/a-1282766~Teachers__unions_are_ruining_our_kids_schools.html
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:50 pm
“I’ve worked in both uion and non-union environments; the mentality in the non-union environment has been one closer to SLAVERY than working with the employees for the betterment of the company. In an union environment, I’ve discovered that conditions were better and management was more receptive to employee concerns.”
LOL!!!! Here we go with slavery again.
HDB is wasting taxpayer money by blogging all day.
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:51 pm
“TAKE CARE OF YOUR EMPLOYEES….THEY’LL TAKE CARE OF THE COMPANY!!”
You should really get back to work and stop wasting taxpayer money blogging.
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:54 pm
“When CEOs make over 1400 times what an employee makes…..takes stock options….while FIRING over a third of the work force…….the anumus SHOULD go towards MANAGEMENT!!”
1: You don’t understand how companies work.
2: The CEO is who steers the ship. If the company goes down, he/she goes down with it.
3: Your beloved politicians make more money by stealing taxpayer dollars than a CEO does at making money off the company he/she works for.
Bottom line: Get back to work and stop wasting my tax dollars.
Swede Atlanta
February 16th, 2010
1:55 pm
LA
Yes, unions have contributed to the Democrats because they believe Democrats will promote policies that benefit them. That is why anyone gives a contribution to a political campaign. Nothing new here, move along.
Unions have continued a long decline. I agree with that in part because American collective bargaining, in general, has not made the transition to represent the interests of the service and information economy. American unions continue to operate largely around a paradigm of the factory floor. European unions are far more prevalent among white collar workers than they are here.
I believe that is one of the primary reasons union membership has dropped. Unions are largely focused in manufacturing industries and those industries can now operate with less employees thanks to technology.
If unions had not existed what would current working conditions be like? You claim they would be great. I suggest you do some research in the history and effects of the collective bargaining movement. You would learn that until the time of the unions, working conditions in many industries were deplorable.
My first job required me to work a split shift. I worked 0800-1300 with one 10-minute break mandated by law and then 1700-2000 with another 10-minute break. There was no compensation or work rule consideration for the fact I had two daily commutes. My days off were never together. This was all done so the employer could maximize profits. They had a busy morning and then a busy late afternoon/early evening period.
We then voted in a union. Split shifts were eliminated through collective bargaining. But guess what? The company admitted that had it not been forced to eliminate split shifts they would not have realized how counter-productive split shifts were.
They were able to reduce overall labor costs by closing a 3rd shift. The slower periods during the afternoon allowed us to cover the work that was done on the 3rd shift. Not a single employee was laid off as a result. They were able to offer part-time work to new employees to help cover the busy period in the late afternoon/early evening.
This is a classic example of how unions not only improved the working conditions of workers but actually helped the company in the long run.
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:55 pm
“Ben & Jerry’s CEOs only make 12 times the LOWEST employee…and look how profitable that company is!!”
That’s because those two hippies have no clue what happened to their money. They spent it all on weed and chips.
HDB
February 16th, 2010
1:56 pm
LA: So..you’re desiring child labor, slavery…sweat shop..and low wages?? Note the pay scale of union vs. non-union shops; non-union pay almmost HALF the scale…and less protections!!
If I beat my deadlines by DAYS…rather than hours…..I’m putting maximm effort into my job…..I CAN MULTI-TASK!!
Why doesn’t MANAGEMENT get such a negative light vs. unions? Doesn’t MANAGEMENT make the decisions as to a corporation’s course? Doesn’t MANAGEMENT decide what is to be manufactured?
It’s like blaming a slave for dying in the field…when Master knew he was sick……
Can’t put ALL of the blame on the union………
LA
February 16th, 2010
1:57 pm
“Yes, unions have contributed to the Democrats because they believe Democrats will promote policies that benefit them. That is why anyone gives a contribution to a political campaign. Nothing new here, move along.”
Yep, like giving unions more money and power.
“If unions had not existed what would current working conditions be like? You claim they would be great.”
Yep, at my NON UNION job, I didn’t have to worry about unions stealing my money. I also have great benefits because…..I went to college!
“This is a classic example of how unions not only improved the working conditions of workers but actually helped the company in the long run.”
Yep, that MUST be why GM and Delta and other pro union companies have either gone bankrupt or had to have the government intervene and take over.
Swede Atlanta
February 16th, 2010
1:58 pm
LA
The CEO goes down with the ship? Hardly. They nearly always have contracts with golden parachutes in them. They walk away with hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions. Employees might walk away with a few months of severance.
LA
February 16th, 2010
2:00 pm
“So..you’re desiring child labor, slavery…sweat shop..and low wages??”
Your words dimwit, not mine.
“If I beat my deadlines by DAYS…rather than hours…..I’m putting maximm effort into my job…..I CAN MULTI-TASK!!”
I’m sure you do have to multi-task at McDonalds. Handing out fries and Cokes all day is what you consider multi-tasking.
“It’s like blaming a slave for dying in the field…when Master knew he was sick……”
You inject race and race issues into every single blog. You really are a racist aren’t you.
“Can’t put ALL of the blame on the union………”
Sure I can. Just ask GM and Delta.
NOW GET BACK TO WORK AND STOP WASTING TAX DOLLARS!
LA
February 16th, 2010
2:01 pm
“hey nearly always have contracts with golden parachutes in them. They walk away with hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions. Employees might walk away with a few months of severance.”
What it all comes down to with you is wealth envy. You hate rich people who have worked hard to make money.
Well democrat union gal, get away from me. I don’t want my money going anywhere near your leech infested union.
Jess
February 16th, 2010
2:01 pm
HDB,
To everything there is a season. Unions served an important and valid purpose in the early years of industry, But through legislation, mobility, and management learning to value their workforce, that season is about over. Now they are more destructive than constructive.
Fix-It
February 16th, 2010
2:05 pm
HDB, I have a job for you move to China and unionize them, and if you promise to go I will get your 1 way ticket… Who knows you may see that what you want for the US is NOT the correct thing.
scrappy
February 16th, 2010
2:06 pm
All you did was answer my question with a question, and I believe your question is comparing apples to oranges.
Right to work states = States with Job Growth = Everyone hate Unions = Unions should die. ???
There are a lot of reasons why some states are enjoying job growth and others are not, I don’t think it rests solely on the idea of being right to work.
I’m sorry, but I don’t know if I will check back, I am losing brain power having to read LA’s posts.