Harvard Medical dean gives Obama/PelosiCare an F
Jeffrey S. Flier, the dean of Harvard Medical School, takes on Washington’s approach to health reform, and no side is spared his disapproval:
Our health-care system suffers from problems of cost, access and quality, and needs major reform. Tax policy drives employment-based insurance; this begets overinsurance and drives costs upward while creating inequities for the unemployed and self-employed. A regulatory morass limits innovation. And deep flaws in Medicare and Medicaid drive spending without optimizing care.
Speeches and news reports can lead you to believe that proposed congressional legislation would tackle the problems of cost, access and quality. But that’s not true. The various bills do deal with access by expanding Medicaid and mandating subsidized insurance at substantial cost—and thus addresses an important social goal. However, there are no provisions to substantively control the growth of costs or raise the quality of care. So the overall effort will fail to qualify as reform.
Those of you who think this debate is about reining in the insurance companies, think again:
Worse, currently proposed federal legislation would undermine any potential for real innovation in insurance and the provision of care. It would do so by overregulating the health-care system in the service of special interests such as insurance companies, hospitals, professional organizations and pharmaceutical companies, rather than the patients who should be our primary concern. (emphasis added)
He goes on to describe the changes that are already necessary in Massachusetts just three years after that state passed health legislation with many similarities to the bills which Congress is debating. There, a commission has concluded that within five years the state’s health-payment system must be overhauled. Flier notes that “the details of this massive change…are completely unspecified by the commission, although a new Massachusetts state bureaucracy clearly will be required.”
He continues:
So the majority of our representatives may congratulate themselves on reducing the number of uninsured, while quietly understanding this can only be the first step of a multiyear process to more drastically change the organization and funding of health care in America. I have met many people for whom this strategy is conscious and explicit.
We should not be making public policy in such a crucial area by keeping the electorate ignorant of the actual road ahead.
Is it too much to ask for any federal health reform to get at least a passing grade from a man like the Harvard Medical School dean? Note to Congress: Start over.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Guides
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2010 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
95 comments Add your comment
jconservative
November 18th, 2009
10:31 am
I read this as an indictment of plans now in congress but also as an indictment of the present system. This is pretty strong language.
My concern is, and has been, the cost. If I may emphasize Flier’s remarks:
1 – “Our health-care system suffers from problems of cost…and needs major reform.”
2- “Tax policy drives employment-based insurance; this…drives costs upward…”
3 – “And deep flaws in Medicare and Medicaid drive spending…”
As I say frequently, CMS (Medicare/Medicaid) will spend $803.1 Billion in FY 2010. This will double in a few years & triple in 20 years. No one in Washington has proposed anything to deal with this.
Talk about Harry Truman’s “Do Nothing… Congress”, the Do Nothing crowd we have now would put that bunch to shame.
My suggestion to everyone is to stop voting for incumbents.
Kyle Wingfield
November 18th, 2009
10:37 am
Like I said, no one is spared in his piece. He also takes the pro-Obama and anti-Obama crowds to task.
Bottom line: We need real health-system improvement too badly to settle for the “solutions” we’re being presented right now.
booger
November 18th, 2009
11:08 am
When overhauling the health system, it would be nice if the government would keep in mind that 70% or so Americans are satisfied with their current plans. Instead, they have tried to convince people that the entire system is in shambles, and insurance companies are the spawn of the devil.
The second suggestion I would have is to present an honest, and simple explaination of how we will pay for this. The deception and game playing with the current proposals has cost congress and the president a lot of credibility. This will clearly be a hugh task, but it needs to be done.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
11:32 am
But….but…..but…….I thought Harvard was 100% on President Acorns side?
What we need is tort reform, access to insurance across state lines and people not abusing the system. My wife is a doctor and one of her biggest complaints about patients is how some of them come in for things that are not necessary.
misplaced
November 18th, 2009
11:37 am
If we can finance a war we can get health care for our own citizens. We cannot go on the way things are now it will only get worst. 70% might be happy now but that does not change the fact that the cost for that 70% will rise unless changes are made.
I would rather have my taxes being used to treat fellow citizens then liberate countries who could really care less.
This link http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33975919/ puts a face to the human tragedy that is our heath care system. To do nothing is a shameful, to scare people with misinformation about health care is a sin.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
11:45 am
misplaced, huh, imagine that. A liberal news channel pushing stories about a few people all to try to cram a crappy health care bill down our throats.
Cue violins……………..AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEE.
Who is scaring who? Not one democrat, including Obama or Pelosi, has read the health care bill.
Here’s an idea for you misplaced, how about I rig up some document, not read it and make you sign it? Makes about as much sense as your logic about the health care bill.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
11:52 am
misplaced, does Keith Olberman tell you when to sit and speak?
The American People
November 18th, 2009
12:36 pm
Why rush this thing through Mr. President if the program doesn’t start to 2013? That is kind of fishy, we think that is after the 2012 elections, coincidence? No, we don’t think so. We have seen your antics sir and your lack of listening to us, the American people, so we will think twice about voting for you again.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
12:41 pm
David Axelfraud tort reform is not the answer all. If it were so simple why was it not suggested when the Republicans had the senate and the presidency. My question is you say tort reform what makes tort reform so much better than the propose.
I do agree that insurance companies should be allowed to cross state lines. It should be like you car insurance where you can bundle you life and house under it and get discounts. Hell they even sell credit protection now.
I think we need the government option for no other reason than we have small monopolies in every state selling insurance and raising rates for whatever reason they may chose. We have no alternative. I own my own business and insurance for me and my family costs me over a $1,000 per month. That is ridiculous. I welcome the goverment option, I trully do.
@@
November 18th, 2009
12:43 pm
Let’s see if this posts.
All I’ve ever asked is that they start over in a fishbowl with us on the outside looking in rather than being on the inside, waiting to get hooked. But nooooooooo, the dems wanna label those of us who question their bill as radicals, nazis, thugs.
About the thread downstairs “One not-so-short list for the GOP in 2012″. My guy is in the bottom tear. He’s got everything I’m looking for in a presidential candidate. Not over the top in any aspect. Just smart where we need him to be.
I’ll not mention his name.
I noticed, too, that Gen. Petraeus is down there. I’d love to see Gen. Honore on that list. Don’t know what his party affiliation is, but more people need to hear his question….the one he used on assignment during the Katrina rescue. “What are ‘ya….stuck on stooopid.?”
It was addressed to the media. LUV THAT GUY!!!! He’s very smart.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
12:44 pm
@ The American People I doubt that you voted for him the first time. The healthcare industry NEEDS to be overhauled, as stated by both McCain and Dole. Who are you listening too? Are you one of the ones that says that the 9/11 terrorist should not be tried or housed in the US because Rush (the drug addict) says so?
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
12:50 pm
@@ don’t you label anyone that goes along with the President policies as communist, anti-American etc. I do not agree with everything the President has done or will do. Please do tell me when the Republicans have came to you before making a policy. Did they ask you before they bailed out Wall Street? Did they call and ask you Opinion before they invaded Iraq? Did they ask your Opinion before they gave their buddies no bid contracts for the government? I thought not. Look at the issuse as though you are on either side. That is the best way to debate an issue. step outside of yourself.
Steve
November 18th, 2009
1:01 pm
Gregg,
I believe most the people on this thread are willing to look at change to the system. We just don’t think ANY plan should be rushed through the system in a matter of months. Especially when many of the people voting have not read it.
But way to try to redirect the subject to something else when you don’t have anywhere else to go.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
1:01 pm
The Mayo Clinic released this statement 7/16/09, “…the proposed legislation missed the opportunity to create higher-quality, more affordable health care for patients. In fact, it will do the opposite. In general, the proposals…are not patient focused or results oriented…The real losers will be the citizens of the U.S.”
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
1:06 pm
@ Steve what am I redirecting? Read the posts that I am answering to. This is not the first time something was rushed through congress without someone reading it, or is it? If I am not mistaken the initail bailout was that way! the rush to go to war was that way. Do you only see it now that this administration is doing it? Again please tell me what I am redirecting though. I would really appreciate it.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
1:11 pm
@ Steve, I like to think I am a fairly intellegent guy. I like to understand things as they are presented to me. You said “Especially when many of the people voting have not read it.” Then why are you against it or believe what is negatively being said since no one has read it?
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
1:17 pm
@ Kyle why did you only post the anti-Obama rethoric? I am sure you would agree, that you can always find someone to defend your point of view. You have the dean from Harvard are there any other schools that agree with the propose “soultions” that are being offered?
@@
November 18th, 2009
1:27 pm
Gregg:
I’ve never said Obama was a communist OR anti-american. A liberal in favor of socialist policies who’s in over his head. Absolutely!
I’ve learned a lot about politics over the last 5…6 years. In answer to your questions:
No. I was opposed to Bush’s TARP (e-mailed the WH) and every bailout, stimulus, omnibus bill that has followed. Just like the health care bill, all were sold as urgent. I’m putting my foot down! The government should no longer be allowed to profit by invoking fear into its people.
No. Going to war is an authority only Congress is given. Need I remind you that democrats voted in favor of Iraq?
No. You talkin’ Halliburton? How many companies, at the time, were able to offer the strategical service that Halliburton did? One. Does it look suspicious? Sure it does. Doesn’t change the fact that there was only one with the systems, people and contacts in place to get the job done.
Now feel free to go into your conspiracy theorist mode. I won’t be here to watch. But…if it makes you happy….who am I to deny you the pleasure? When one’s life is beyond your control, they’ll look for someone other than yourself to blame. It’s a momentary choice. Then the sun comes up and they start all over again.
See ‘ya!
Kyle Wingfield
November 18th, 2009
1:33 pm
“Any other schools,” Gregg? I’m sure someone, somewhere thinks this is an A+ idea — probably the special interests that Flier mentioned.
My point in passing along Flier’s opinion was two-fold. First, he makes very good arguments that no one — in Congress, in the media, on this or other blogs — has come close to refuting. Second, the dean of Harvard Medical School is not exactly a right-wing corporate shill (or whatever liberals like to call those of us who oppose ObamaCare). I would consider his opinion to be a fairly neutral one, politically speaking.
@@
November 18th, 2009
1:35 pm
Gregg:
I responded to your 12:50. For some reason it didn’t materialize. I’ll check in later after reconstruction.
I’ll address your accusation right now.
I’ve never called Obama a communist, nor have I said he’s anti-american. I have said he’s a liberal who’s in over his head, promoting socialist policies that I don’t support.
Rest to follow.
I’m out the door for now.
Steve
November 18th, 2009
1:38 pm
Greg,
Your comment “Are you one of the ones that says that the 9/11 terrorist should not be tried or housed in the US because Rush (the drug addict) says so?”
That’s a totally different issue.
Also, I never said whether I was for or against the plans. I said, “We just don’t think ANY plan should be rushed through the system in a matter of months. Especially when many of the people voting (e.g. Congresspersons) have not read it.”
Jefferson
November 18th, 2009
1:38 pm
What is there to like about what you have? Increased co-pays, increased deductibles, evasive claim paying practices, premiums rising far more than income. In network vs outnetwork. Preapprovals Just what is it that these people like. I work for a small business and this is what you get with “good insurance”. Fear is what drives that question and answers.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
1:41 pm
The second sentence of the report is a problem no one talks about. An employee who receives “free” or partially “free” health care thru their employer does not pay taxes on it, whereas an employee who receives additional salary in lieu of benefits or someone who is self-employed pays taxes on the income.
The employer is able to deduct health care insurance costs more favorably than the self-employed. This is highly unfair.
The self-employed tend to have less health insurance coverage than those employed. Many self-employed people have only catastrophic coverage & pay out-of-pocket for all visits, tests, procedures & medicines. Many employees have no idea what the cost is of health insurance, visits, tests, procedures & medicines & have no incentive to minimize them or their cost.
The third party payer system is a huge problem.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
1:43 pm
@@ Please answer this for me when you get a chance. We spend BILLION$ of dollars in foreign countries yet we balk at the idea of helping each other. We sit in pews asking to be made whole yet wew only worry about us and those next to us. We tend to ask for help from the government when we need it yet frown when others need it. We have yet we refuse to give. We ask for blessings yet do not want to bless anyone with the very thing(s) we were blessed with.
There are many people out there that lost their jobs and homes, some to no fault of their own. If this policy helps them not have to worry about one thing, then I am all in.
@Kyle, ask how many doctors still see the clients that were laid off and lost their insurance in one of your blogs! I am interested to see how many are or were willing to do that? With so many out of work who is looking out for their best interest. I say if we ALL want better healthcare let’s vote away the plan that all congressmen have and put them into one of our plans and see how fast this gets fixed.
Kyle Wingfield
November 18th, 2009
1:56 pm
@@: Fwiw, I have no idea why some of your comments are published immediately and others go to moderation. This happens to a couple of other folks as well. Apologies.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
1:56 pm
@ Linda 1:41pm. I agree with you. Like I said I don’t like the entire plan however I do not, let me change that, I know there is not a plan that would appease everyone. I say look at who is pushing either way (for or against) and see who backs them. What are their agendas to getting this passed or killed. Somethings done may not benefit me but in most of those cases I AM the minority. I understand it is done for the betterment of the whole and not just the fractions. This is what I teach my son in little league. Everything is not about YOU it is about US.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
1:58 pm
Gregg, the Repubs DID say something about tort reform. They have been saying it for YEARS! The reason it’s so bad now is because President Acorn has caused us to have over 10.2% unemployment. Before that, people HAD jobs.
Bottom line: PRESIDENT OBAMA SAID THAT PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS EVERY DAY.
THE REASON THEY ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS IS BECAUSE HE DOESN’T KNOW WHAT THE HELL HE’S DOING. WHY? BECAUSE HE IS AN INEXPERIENCED MAN CHILD WHO HAS NEVER HAD ANY POWER PRIOR TO THE PRESIDENCY.
Health care is not even in the top five issues among the America people. The economy is. Don’t you think it odd that 64% of Americans polled DO NOT want government health care?
Obama and the democrats, including you, have not read ANY of the health care bills. Obama never ever ever came up with one. When he says MY health care plan, HE DOESN;T HAVE ONE!
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:00 pm
Gregg wrote: I think we need the government option for no other reason than we have small monopolies in every state selling insurance and raising rates for whatever reason they may chose. We have no alternative. I own my own business and insurance for me and my family costs me over a $1,000 per month. That is ridiculous. I welcome the goverment option, I trully do
Yeah Gregg, that’s because people are not allowed to get their health insurance in other states. Gee, you ever think about that?
You want welfare? Have it pal.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
2:01 pm
@ Steve again if no one has read it how can they be so dead set against it or Like you say for it. But my point is you make it seems as though this is the first time this has happened.
And the comment you are reffering to I was talking to “The American People” because he/she said that the President Obama was not listening to them. So I was wondering who has listen to them. It was just a question.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
2:05 pm
@ David Axelfraud first of this depression started before President Obama got in office or were you not around then. It took 8 years to destroy the economy but you want it fixed in less than 1. Secondly, ask many of the people who are unemployed what are their two biggest issues and I guarantee healthcare is among them. Do not get confuse because you and I have that everyone else does too. It should boggle your brain that so many people are against something they know nothing against.
Churchill's MOM
November 18th, 2009
2:05 pm
This has been up and the fraud has only made 4 post, hopefully he is ill.
I agree with the writer and wish the Democratic plan was better but most of congress is just a shill for special interest. B+ for today wingboy..
Linda
November 18th, 2009
2:06 pm
Gregg@ 1:41, Dr. Flier referred in his article to the rhetoric on both sides of the health care reform debate. I would not call comments from the Dean of Harvard Medical School “rhetoric.” I offered comments from the Mayo Clinic @ 1:01 that also do not support the current legislation. If you can find an equally bipartisan prestigious school or medical organization who thinks the current bill offers any “solutions”, I would be most interested in reading your post.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
2:07 pm
@ Churchill’s MOM I agree with you and wish we had a better option however we have to start somewhere. Nothing starts out perfect and that is why you have rough drafts.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
2:11 pm
@ Linda I only ask why both side of the argument was not posted. In all of the Bi-Partisan rulings on this issue both side are prodded and chastized. I would like to see what is said regarding both not to just take out the sections that you agree with but the whole work. This plan is not perfect by any means of the imigination. This is new and will develop. This is the rough draft yet everyone expects it to be perfect.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:16 pm
Gregg, what planet were you living on? The economy was fine when Bush was in office. 4.4% unemployment. Lower than when Clinton was in office. Oh that’s right, you blame everything on Bush. Your dog gets run over. Bush’s fault. Your house catches fire. Bush’s fault. Obama screws up for the last 9 month. Bush’s fault.
Do you and your ilk ever take responsibility for anything? Do you teach your kids to blame others?
Gregg, I will say this as politely as possible. THE REASON PEOPLE ARE SCARED IS BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS, INCLUDING DOPE AND CHANGE, NEVER READ ANY OF THE BILLS. YOU HAVE NOT READ IT EITHER. YOUR LOGIC IS HORRIBLE AND YOU CAN NOT TELL ANY OF US CONSERVATIVES HOW WE WILL PAY FOR ANY OF IT!
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:19 pm
Gregg, one more thing. I trust insurance companies 1000% more than I would trust the DMV to run health care. I also trust my doctor more than a community organizer.
misplaced
November 18th, 2009
2:21 pm
Axelfraud No I do not listen to Olberman but it seems that you do follow the rest of the wing nuts or at least like to use the sound bits they provide you with.
I guess you agree that it is ok to basically hand the Insurance companies blank checks and then allow them to do as they want with little or no over site. I am tired of people like you who are slowly turning this country into a banana republic
We spend more money trying to run the world and can’t feed or care for our own citizens. If you want a Banana Republic that bad maybe you should move to one.
Also that Free clinic was reported on by many new sources not just MSNBC. The point you missed was that 80% of those who were seeking treatments have jobs.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:21 pm
Gregg wrote: Secondly, ask many of the people who are unemployed what are their two biggest issues and I guarantee healthcare is among them. Do not get confuse because you and I have that everyone else does too.
Gregg, I ask you to please……please learn how to write competent sentences. Please.
People who don’t have jobs are worried about health insurance because………THEY DON’T HAVE JOBS! THEY WANT JOBS. OBAMA PROMISED JOBS. THERE ARE NO JOBS.
GET IT?
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:24 pm
misplaced, I will side with a private company over government ANY DAY! Government has NEVER solved problems. You state that “we” have been messing up other countries. Huh, think for a second.
Who is screwing up other countries? OUR FREAKING GOVERNMENT! NOT COMPANIES, NOT INSURANCE COMPANIES. THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. THE VERY PEOPLE YOU WANT RUNNING YOUR LIFE.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
2:28 pm
Greg, Who is the “we” you referred to at 12:41? The American people have ALWAYS been there for each other without a dime having to go thru the govt. We help one-on-one & thru our churches & other charitable organizations. The govt is NOT a charity. It is neither effective not efficient. The dollar I send to the govt is only 25 cents by the time it reaches the needy, a year later, after the fraud & red tape is deducted.
Yes, some doctors treat patients who cannot pay.
The fact that the current house bill is not good enough for our law makers should speak loud to you about its quality.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
2:30 pm
@ David Axelfraud I could lower myself to your level but I refuse to lower myself to your standards. It is so clear that you live in a fantasy world were everything is wrong becuase the people you want are not in office. You are probably a lonely sore little man. You said your wife is a doctor (yeah right). What do you do? What branch of the service were you in? What was you MOS?
oldimer
November 18th, 2009
2:30 pm
I think, since much of the current health care proposals will not take effect till after the next (012) big election, that we all just slow down. Much of America’s health care plan is not broken. I for one like my insurance ok. And I have two children who have to purchase their own insurance. The cost is not too great and they make way more than I did at their age. I will say they spend more time shopping around for, say, the flu shots, than I do; or medicines for that matter. We need to pick out one problem at a time and try to fix it. For example; Let the private companies create an affordable solution for those with pre-existing conditions. Then move on to the next issue.
Churchill's MOM
November 18th, 2009
2:31 pm
Looks like I woke the Fraud up, could you cut back to 1 relevant post a hour?
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:34 pm
Churchill’s MOM, why don’t you take your own advice?
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:36 pm
Gregg, my standards? Ok ma’am. Didn’t know you couldn’t handle a little debate. Oh, by the way, you may want to check your hypocrisy at the door. After you say you won’t sink to my level, whatever that means, you call me a sore lonely little man.
Poor Gregg.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
2:42 pm
@ David Axelfraud you didn’t answer my questions sir? Are you avoiding them for some reason? Are you lonely and we your only friends. Are you the little man of the house that is only allowed to speak when your wife is not home? Please do tell what do you do or have you done for your country besides cry on blogs for Kyle to ban someone?
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:42 pm
Gregg, when did I say that I was in the military? I work for a large corporation in Chicago that makes big planes fly better. You’ve probably heard of them. My wife is a doctor and she would run circles around you any day.
You wrote: What was you MOS?
Um, speak proper English, Gregg. If you want a serious debate then you have to use correct English.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:44 pm
Gregg, your questions are irrelevant but I answered the four that you asked above. One, I don’t owe you any explanation as to who I am or what you do.
Ha, Gregg tries to insult me. Poor little Gregg. Oh, right, yeah, I asked Kyle to ban a person who threatened me. I also asked him to enforce his own rules. You know, people who call other people names. Sort of like…….you.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
2:45 pm
Gregg@1:56, The current plan is a farce. It has little to do with health, care, insurance or reform. We will never have true health care reform until it includes tort, & we’ll never have tort reform as long as lawyers are running the show in DC. There’s too many lawyers in Congress. The huge percentage of lawyers & firms support Dems. Check this out for yourself.
The intent of the health bill is NOT to reform health care & it doesn’t. It makes it worse.
I read above some of the ways you feel that health insurance should be reformed & I agree with you. However, this bill doesn’t include them.
I also read above that you own your own business. I don’t know if you’re self-employed. Many people who are have HSA’s. This bill will phase them out. That’s not reform.
It requires businesses to provide health insurance. I’m not saying that’s a bad idea, but it’s a very stupid idea during the worst unemployment problem in decades, as was raising the minimum wage just recently.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:46 pm
Gregg, I will debate you on any topic. The problem I have with you is that you have tried to change the subject on my personal life which has nothing to do with anything. Please, try to debate the topic and spend less time calling me names. Thanks-Axelfraud.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
2:46 pm
@ David Axelfraud you talk of your wife but not yourself! Why would she run circles around me and not you? Do she defend you when you go out? Do she lock the door and check the house to make sure it is safe for you? Do you crave and cower for her attention, tsk, tsk, tsk poor little man. My wife this, my wife that, I asked about you not your wife. Oh I asked about your military becuase you always talk about putting the country first. There is no better way to do that than to serve, I would say. Ask your wife can you respond to me, go on hurry, I will be waiting.
Gregg
November 18th, 2009
2:49 pm
David Axelfraud! Why you called me Maam when I have made bigger men call me Sir. This is Kyle’s blog I am willing to debate the topics he brings up. I have never mentioned my wife (she is not a doctor by the way) but quite successful. We meet a college before I joined the Army. What branch did you say you were in again. Or were you too scared to serve your country?
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:54 pm
Gregg, you none too bright is you? My wife is a doctor. A medical doctor. This topic is on health care. Make sense? Maybe I should draw pictures in a coloring book for you to understand.
Your questions: Why would she run circles around me and not you?
Answer: Yes Gregg, she would run circles around you. I believe a kindergarten could run circles around you.
Question 2: Do she defend you when you go out?
Answer: Do she? Um, Gregg, please use proper English please. Defend me against what, the swine flu, aliens? Not sure what you mean.
Question 3: Do she lock the door and check the house to make sure it is safe for you?
No Gregg, I do that. And I also leave my two grown German Shepherds in the living room at night.
You wrote: There is no better way to do that than to serve, I would say. Ask your wife can you respond to me, go on hurry, I will be waiting.
Um Gregg, the current president never served. Bill Clinton never served. Hillary Clinton never served. Go tell them that they suck for not serving.
Gregg, I have a few questions for you.
1: Did you pass remedial English?
2: Why are you obsessed with my personal life?
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
2:55 pm
Gregg, because you sound like a girl. I am so sorry public education failed you.
As Ralph Wiggum once said, Me fail Engwish! That’s umpossible.
misplaced
November 18th, 2009
2:58 pm
Axlefraud you seem to have the flag wrapped around you pretty tight for someone who have never served.
You should also get on one of those planes and travel a bit and see what some of the companies are up to in other country’s, have you ever seen what the Ford and GM plants do in Mexico and how they hurt us at home as well? I guess Walmart with no heath care for the employees is just fine when they make nothing but buy and resell cheap crap from a communist country.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
3:00 pm
Gregg wrote: I have never mentioned my wife (she is not a doctor by the way) but quite successful. We meet a college before I joined the Army. What branch did you say you were in again. Or were you too scared to serve your country?
Gregg, seriously ma’am, for the love of God, check your grammar before posting. It’s painful to read your comments. I am seriously trying not to laugh…but….too….damn…..funny.
Kyle Wingfield
November 18th, 2009
3:01 pm
Gregg, Axelfraud: That’s enough.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
3:02 pm
misplaced, the flag wrapped around me pretty tight? Huh, so, by your logic one can’t love his/her country without serving? Well, you may want to tell President Acorn what you told me.
Oh, you want to talk about overseas companies? Ok cool, the reason those companies have left and gone elsewhere is due to high taxes and whiny unions in the USA.
Walmart is not a health care company. They don’t OWE anyone anything. Me thinks you love welfare too much.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
3:03 pm
Kyle Wingfield, but this is too funny. I love Gregg.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
3:03 pm
Gregg @ 2:05, I don’t mean to be butting in to your comments directed to others, but I just had to respond to what you said. In ‘04, before the economic recession hit, Bill Clinton BRAGGED in his autobiography that it was his adm that was responsible for the “staggering” “$800 B” in loans to people who could not qualify. He also ADMITTED 8/08 on ABC the the Dems resisted efforts for years by the Reps to reign in Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac.
There’s lots of blame to go around for the mess we’re & it took a lot longer than 8 yrs. Please do your own research.
I had a front row seat. I predicted & knew with all my heart in the ’90’s that the housing bubble would burst & the economy crash. Any idiot could see that people with no income, no down payment & bad credit who can’t afford to buy a house simply CAN’T AFFORD TO BUY A HOUSE.
Stop blaming Bush for agendas & laws passed before he even ran for president.
Yes, people unemployed are concerned about their health care. They are also concerned about loosing their homes & feeding themselves. Giving them health care insurance does NOT solve the problem. If we address unemployment, their other problems (health care, shelter & food) will correct themselves.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
3:09 pm
Gregg@2:07, This is NOT a rough draft! In the last year, the DC bunch, Reps & Dems, have nationalized our financial system, the largest insurance co. in the world (AIG), 2 of our 3 auto makers, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, etc. The entire intent of this so-called health bill is to nationalize/socialize our health care, 1/6 of our economy. Rough draft, my eye!
Linda
November 18th, 2009
3:14 pm
Gregg @ 2:11, If you want rhetoric, read one of the other columnists. If you want truth, stick with Kyle. If you want fair & balanced without changing the screen, watch Fox.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
3:25 pm
David @ 2:16, Calm down & be nice. Read that book “How to Win Friends…” The people on this site are smarter than most Americans. (Example: No one has said they believe in global warming, yet, today.) This is just a place & a means to discuss our different views. I’ve seen you kill them with kindness. You’re a great American.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
3:32 pm
Oldimer @ 2:30, You are the smartest contributor on this site today (except Kyle, of course). Please keep commenting. I am being very sincere.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
3:45 pm
Linda, I am having a blast. This is too much fun.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
3:48 pm
Misplaced @ 2:58, Labor unions forced Ford & GM our of the US. Without Walmart many Americans wouldn’t have been able to function during the last year. Walmart employees feel fortunate to have jobs. If we only Buy American, we wouldn’t be able to DRIVE to the jobs we no longer have to manufacture exports other countries won’t buy, since we wouldn’t have enough gas, since we have a self-imposed ban on drilling for our own. If we don’t buy imports, other countries won’t buy our exports. More manufacturing jobs will be lost.
misplaced
November 18th, 2009
4:00 pm
Axlefraud serious you need to get on a plane and see for yourself, they left because they can get away with crap like paying people 5 bucks a day, pollute the ground water and bribe Government Officials they welcome back the old Company Store days.
The question was not about walmart being a strong company but if it was ok for them to do what they do, the Walton family (walmart not Johnboy) makes more then 95 Million people in this country and they do nothing but support a communist regime yet they say the cannot afford to offer health care.
Whiny unions lets look at Ford and the UAW, Ford’s making money and the people making those vehicles are UAW members?
Yes if you wrap yourself in the flag and wave your banners ever so high you open yourself to be questioned I don’t think Obama or Clinton have wrapped themselves in the flag quit like you and the rest of the non serving talk radio crowd.
It’s easier to walk the walk and talk the talk when I have a set of DD214’s under my arm.
misplaced
November 18th, 2009
4:02 pm
Linda you need to get on the same plane with Axlefraud
Linda
November 18th, 2009
4:03 pm
David @2:45, Look, if you want to blast wackos, go to one of those liberal sites. The people on Kyle’s site are moderates looking for information. Educate them! You can’t sway them if you attack them. I know people who make millions that can’t read a box of cereal, take a decent message or read a map. Ever seen a prescription?
Now you’re run everybody off & you are the only one I have to talk to. I’m wasting my time with you because you & I are already on the same side & you’re smarter than I am.
Jefferson
November 18th, 2009
4:04 pm
Another day that I am more disappointed in the human race.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
4:05 pm
Misplaced@4:02, I see that you have read that self-help book for liberals that goes something like this: If you can’t argue with the facts, attack the messenger. Do you have any facts to dispute any one thing that I wrote?
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
4:08 pm
misplaced, whatever you say, pal!
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
4:09 pm
Linda, I once got booted off of Huffingtonpost for daring to write anything against their lord and savior Obama. Libs HATE debate. They love to smear and name call. They have nothing else.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
4:09 pm
misplaced, will this airplane take me to a more capitalistic country?
@@
November 18th, 2009
4:24 pm
Heyyyyy, my original post came thru. Glad I don’t have to reconstruct.
Kyle:
It’s not a big problem. My time is limited anyway. I still give it a stab every now and then.
Gregg:
Sitting in the pews? You wanna know where I went? I went to the store in preparation for a meal that I am about to carry to a family I don’t even know. Came to our church and asked for help, they did….both financial and substantial. They got both.
Here’s the deal! We get a lot of requests at our church. Some take it & run, coming back to ask for more….like “Can you help get my husband out of jail?” WHAT is WRONG with people like that?
We ask only one thing from those we help — “Please give back! If not monetarily, then share your talents. Others like you will follow, and our resources are limited.”
The family I’m cooking for has agreed to pay us back when they can. I believe ‘em. She’s helping us prepare meals at a local shelter.
To be perfectly honest, it’s hard for me to support anything liberals put forth when, so often, they attack The Church and its members. I’ve heard way too many of them complain because churches are exempt from paying taxes. If the church were forced to pay taxes, who do you think pays? Me, and those members like me.
The cost of this meal comes out of MY pocket. I don’t get to write it off. I wouldn’t want to. It’s my responsibility as a Christian. I take it seriously.
I’d rather the government set things up where, WE THE PEOPLE, can force competition. Whole Foods offers their employees a great plan that does just that. For those who have no insurance….for reasons beyond their control? Let the government delve into providing catastrophic coverage. The premiums AND deductible are low, all things considered. My husband and I carry it.
One more thing, availability of insurance should NOT stop at the state line. It limits options.
^^^ There ‘ya go!
misplaced
November 18th, 2009
4:36 pm
Axlefraud Yes An airplane can take you to a country that has no regard for people or the environment and welcomes Government Official bribes if that is what you consider a “more capitalistic country”
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
4:39 pm
misplaced, huh, didn’t know New Zealand was as corrupt.
@@
November 18th, 2009
4:44 pm
I’ll drop this off for Gregg.
The Whole Foods Alternative to ObamaCare
8 simple steps. But what are the Obamacare supporters doing? Boycotting Whole Foods ’cause the program exposes Obamacare for what it is. They would actually put Whole Foods’ employees at risk.
Again…..WHAT IS WRONG WITH LIBERALS!!!!
Back to the kitchen.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
4:47 pm
@@, the problem with libs is that they are not smart people. Most of them have degrees from art colleges in such fields as pottery making and jogging. They don’t know how to debate. Only name call and smear. You’ll notice that instead of Cynthia Tucker and Jay Bookman having debates, they make fun of tea parties and Sarah Palin. They never argue points. Just poke fun.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
4:51 pm
OBAMA LIED. LIBERALS CRIED. OBAMA LIED. LIBERALS CRIED.
Story of Jobs: Administration Faces Credibility Gap, as Talk Grows of New Stimulus
Any chance that creating job creation can count as a created job?
The stimulus package, that early presidential victory that’s cost so much, has provided President Obama with its own set of headaches at every step along the way.
There was the way it was enacted. Then the speed with which it’s been implemented. Later came the projects that were never going to really fit comfortably under the stimulus umbrella.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/11/story-of-jobs-administration-faces-credibility-gap-as-talk-grows-of-new-stimulus.html
misplaced
November 18th, 2009
4:56 pm
Axlefrud when you get to New Zealand don’t forget to do what most New Zealanders do, sign up for the “PHO” Primary Health Organisations you know the government ran health care system.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
5:04 pm
misplaced, didn’t say I was going to live there.
Chris Broe
November 18th, 2009
5:33 pm
Will skin lightening be covered under the new healthcare plan? The handsomest face I’ve ever seen is Sammy Sosa’s new mug shot. Unless we can buy interstate skin tones with no deductible, this new Rx reform bill is worthless.
I propose we darken the white folks, at taxpayer expense, and lighten the black folks, at taxpayer’s expense, and we’ll all meet in the middle somewhere between Charo and Ricardo Montelbaum.
If not, we’re finished.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
6:04 pm
@@ at 4:24, I collect plates that are odds & ends, imperfect, with tiny cracks. When I take food to people in need, they usually try to mark the plate to make sure I get it returned. I make sure they know it’s no longer “my” plate. They are not to return it to me. They are to use it to take food to someone else in need at some time in the future. It was a tradition I learned from my mother. When she died, I can’t tell you how many “plates” were brought to us that I remembered, imperfect, cracked. It was like she was there, perfect & wholesome. May God bless you.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
6:07 pm
@@ at 4:24, One difference between liberals & conservatives is that liberals toss out fish & conservatives teach how to fish.
dewstarpath
November 18th, 2009
6:22 pm
- Linda –
I believe the quote you’re grasping for is as follows:
“Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.”
It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative.
Bias will get you nowhere.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
6:26 pm
David, you’re doing better. I’m proud of you. Make Kyle proud.
I found an article the other day written by a really nasty liberal & commented on by equally nasty liberals. Once I posted my comment, all the comments ceased. Checked it again the next day. Comments were still being accepted. Still no further comments. I shut them UP! Can’t wait to try it again. Was a great comment, if I do say so myself.
Still been unsuccessful converting any homos in Boston & San Francisco to Christianity but will keep trying.
David Axelfraud
November 18th, 2009
7:20 pm
Linda, ok, thanks. Not sure what to tell you about the homos in Boston and San Fran.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
7:35 pm
Dewstarpath @ 6:22, You’re right about the quote. Thank you.
It sums up the different philosophies between liberals & conservatives.
I’ve had a front row seat for over 3 decades watching the mess we now have in the economy. It all started with a philosophy that home ownership was a right, not a privilege. It was not fair for people who had jobs, saved & sacrificed for a down payment & paid their bills on time to qualify to buy a house. We needed Affirmative Action, diversity & social engineering! It started with the Carter adm with the passage of the Community Reinvestment Act, which was strengthened during Clinton, until the mess really hit the fan. Even Clinton BRAGGED about it! Before the economic collapse, in ‘04, in his autobiography, he took credit for the “staggering” “$800 B” in loans made to unqualified buyers. He also ADMITTED in 8/08 on ABC that the Dems resisted for yrs efforts by the Reps to reign in Fannie & Freddie.
Now, the Dems are using the same tactics for health care insurance. Now, health care insurance is a right, not a privilege.
The only people who need health insurance but who can’t get it are those who are out of work, sick with pre-existing conditions & illegal aliens.
If the DC bunch would focus on the economy, the unemployed could get back to work & have health care.
Our health care system could be easily tweaked to accomplish the needed reform to cover pre-existing conditions, etc., but this is not the objective of the DC bunch.
You called me biased. You’re not?
Linda
November 18th, 2009
8:00 pm
David, I’m sure you know the difference between ladies & women & between gentlemen & men. I’ve always tried to act like a lady, but when I try to convert gays to Christianity, I am not limited to merely glowing & blushing.
Where you can really help is convincing moderates to see that what’s happening in DC today is as terrifying as terrorists. This is only the 3rd time in my adult lifetime that we’ve had both a Dem-controlled legislature & Dem adm. The last 2 were disasters. This one can cause the end of our country. I’m terrified.
Thank you for all your contributions & may God bless you & yours.
misplaced
November 18th, 2009
8:53 pm
Misplaced@4:02, I see that you have read that self-help book for liberals that goes something like this: If you can’t argue with the facts, attack the messenger. Do you have any facts to dispute any one thing that I wrote?
Linda I guess your phony conservative mind could not follow the thread I responded to from Axlefraud, Those companys did not leave because of unions they left because they wanted more money, they left so they could exploit people and make even more money while you and I still pay the same price, if the fridge you have was made by a union member in Ohio and that union member was paid $17.00 bucks an hour the cost was passed along to you. Now if that same fridge was made by a non-union worker in lets say Mexico for 50 pesos a day (about $5.00 bucks) was the cost savings passed onto to you? NO and you know that second Walmart has done nothing for no one except the Waltons, if they stuck to the plan that Sam Walton had you know like buy American maybe we could respect them however they make tons of money by supporting China and slave labor so I stick to what I wroye earlier get on a plane and see what these Corps are doing in other countries. when you have the weekend off or the next holiday you have off thank a union member some people died for you to have that day off.
Linda
November 18th, 2009
9:53 pm
Misplaced @ 8:53, I’m not a phony. I’m genuinely concerned about our balance of trade. If we don’t buy imports, other countries won’t buy our exports. If we don’t manufacture exports, we don’t have jobs. What’s phony about that? It’s a reality. It’s the Golden Rule.
It’s difficult to follow your comments. I just figured out what a fridge is.
Whatever reason companies leave the US is due to profits, the difference between income & expenses. Labor is cheaper outside our country. Manufacturing is quickly & surly being outsourced to other countries & will probably never be reversed in our lifetimes. It’s the fault of unions more than any other reason.
If Walmart had done nothing for anyone except the Waltons, they would have been out of business a long time ago. They provide good jobs. Get real.
Our country was founded on the free enterprise system. Do you disagree with that?
You still didn’t address my premise. If we only bought American, we wouldn’t be able to DRIVE. We wouldn’t be able to buy oil/gas to DRIVE. It’s the Dems who keep a self-imposed ban on drilling for oil off the coasts of the US. They use the defense that they’re trying to “save the planet” but force us to buy oil from other “planets” such as Canada & Mexico, our 2 largest suppliers. We spend over $700 B a year buying oil from other countries, which jeopardizes our national security.
Why Buy American if it limits our ability to drive our cars?
dewstarpath
November 19th, 2009
9:39 am
- Linda –
I’m sure that everyone has a level of bias involved in
their responses to political questions asked of them.
But your responses are clearly more biased than mine.
Do your research (with the AJC search engine). I do
not spend the better part of the day defending Obama,
liberalism, or any kind of political viewpoint. I do not
have a political “agenda”. Philosophy IMO is more
important than politics, because most political arguments
nowadays only seem to cater to people’s whims, instead
of dealing with policy that will improve society. We need
philosophy to improve the individual; we need to improve
what it means to be an “American”, because what we
have today isn’t cutting it. This involves looking at a given
issue with objective eyes; it’s what is defined as being a
professional (or should be). I don’t know you personally;
I’m just reading your comments. Republicans are good/
Democrats (read liberals) are bad just doesn’t fly; the
viewpoint is too simplistic to answer the increasingly
complex questions that all Americans are going to face.
Michael Kirsch, M.D
November 19th, 2009
11:22 am
Gregg, you are quite misinformed. With respect to tort reform, George Bush ‘got it’. He couldn’t get anything through the lawyer laden congress. This was the obstacle then. Now, we have a Democratic congress and president hostile to tort reform. You recall that the president state in his health care speech to a joint session that fear of litigation ‘may’ result in defensive medicine. This president doesn’t get it. See http://www.MDWhistleblower.blogspot.com under Legal Quality category.
Guy Davis
November 19th, 2009
3:10 pm
I submit that much of the high cost of insurance in general is due to the exemption of the insurance industry from price-fixing legislation for the past 60 years or so. Permitting sales of insurance across state lines may help but for significant change the only industry in the nation not subject to anti-trust law must lose its immunity. Competition is the key, not price-fixing!
As for Tort Reform, it is being pushed primarily by physicians who believe they are entitled to a special exemption from having to take full responsibility for the harm they cause and instead foist upon the taxpayer the caretaker tab for their mistakes. Tactics including “loser pays” legislation which would deny all but the wealthy access to the courthouse and caps on damages at some arbitrary figure such as Georgia’s $350,000.00 cap on blindness, paralysis, etc. caused by medical negligence do absolutely nothing to reduce so called “frivolous lawsuits”. If a claim is worth $350,000.00 or more how is it frivolous and why should the victim not be fairly compensated?