Night of the living public option
At Reason, Peter Suderman asks a good question: Why won’t the public option die?
And don’t start by telling me that it’s oh-so-popular and yet somehow Republicans have just scared too many people –including a number of Senate Democrats — about it. If the public option is so darn popular, why is Nancy Pelosi trying to rebrand it so that people think they’re getting something other than what we’ve been discussing for months?
If it’s so popular, why has President Obama remained non-committal about it all this time? The fact is that the hypothetical public option in which millions of Americans magically receive new health coverage from the insurance fairy is popular, but a public option in which people are specifically asked to help pay for other people’s new coverage is not. Thus Speaker Pelosi’s attempt at trickeration.
The new “opt-out” idea from Harry Reid, in which states could decide not to participate in the new federal government insurance plan, is cut from the same cloth as Pelosi’s maneuvering. If the point were to give states a true choice in the matter, an “opt-in” plan would be far more intellectually honest since the easiest thing for state politicians to do is to not to deviate from the default option that Washington gives them. But Reid’s point, of course, is to set a public option in motion while giving the appearance of flexibility. Don’t fall for it.
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178 comments Add your comment
Kyle Wingfield
October 27th, 2009
3:09 pm
Axelfraud and Pugh: Stop attacking each other and get back to the issue at hand.
Hatin’: Like I said, there’s a big difference between polls that ask about a public option generically, and those that ask if people are willing to pay what it would take to fund a public option. And there’s no getting around the fact that more than just “the rich” would be paying for it.
Joe Obvious
October 27th, 2009
3:09 pm
Can’t wait to see how long the unemployment line gets after insurance companies go under and people that work in the billing departments in hospitals are out of work.
Ironically the same problem exists with implementing a flat tax, it would kill jobs in the tax industry. HR Block/Turbo Tax, tax firms, etc become unnecessary if you only have to pay 15% of all earnings with no exceptions.
Complicated systems create jobs.
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
3:09 pm
Uhh..death panels….pulling the plug on poor Trig….government takeover of healthcare….socialism……you know the usual
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:13 pm
Kyle Wingfield, attacking????????? I was answering her questions.
Stupid, IT IS SOCIALISM. HELL, EVEN FORMER COMMUNIST NEWS PAPERS SAY THAT. PRAVDA.
Death Panels were also in there. If they were not then why did Harry and Nancy have it pulled out?
Come on Stupid, keep up the democrat talking points. Try reaaaaaaaaaaal hard to defend something that you have not read.
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
3:15 pm
Kyle, what about CBO studies showing that the public option actually saves money, possibly even enough to pay for itself.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/21/health.care.cbo/
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:17 pm
Stupid, explain what tax payer funded abortions in the “health care” bill have to do with well….health care.
Mich. Democrat: Pelosi ‘not happy with me’
During an interview on C-SPAN’s “Washington Journal” show, Stupak (D-Mich.) said he is undeterred in trying to ensure that taxpayer dollars do not pay for abortions. Stupak, who opposes abortion rights, acknowledged that some in his party are upset with his public campaign to change the bill.
http://thehill.com//blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/64971-mich-democrat-pelosi-not-happy-with-me
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:18 pm
Hatin’ on the stupid, that is a big fat LIIIIIIIIE. The CBO said that it was “inconclusive” as to this public option saving money.
BUTTTTTTTTT, If the government rations health care then yes they will save money…….while many Americans die. How’s that for a death panel, comrade?
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:20 pm
Stupid, also, hate to break your heart but CNN is dead last in news. Sorry comrade, but CNN is about as relevant as Huffingtonpissed and Daily Krap. But then again, you also believe that the Daily Show is real.
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
3:20 pm
Fraud: The ability to read doesn’t equate with the ability to reason. Since you are so proud of having read the bill(s), show me where it says government death panels would have made life or death decisions for the elderly.
Joan
October 27th, 2009
3:20 pm
So, we get to pay for other people’s healthcare, even if our state opts out. Oh joy. Screwed again. I can’t wait until the next election. I am so over this tin eared Congress who are only concerned with their jobs and benefits. And you better believe, they are rich enough to pay for their doctors with their own money so don’t need to worry about us peasants. They won’t even consider tort reform and cross state competition–too simple.
Joan
October 27th, 2009
3:22 pm
About the abortions. As a conservative, I am all for all the abortions wanted. It costs me less to have those unwanted kids aborted than it does to raise them to adulthood and then support them in prisons.
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
3:23 pm
Fraud: “But then again, you also believe that the Daily Show is real”
I guess you missed the study showing Faux news viewers were among the least informed.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:23 pm
Stupid, it was taken out. It was called RATIONING. That means, if the government decides that an 80 year old man isn’t worth investing in a surgery, they will let him die. Make sense? Probably not because you believe that the Daily Show is real news.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:25 pm
Stupid, why are you so scared of FOX NEWS?
And, what does a real fake news show have to do with FOX NEWS?
Please provide facts that show FOX is not real news. And no, I don’t mean go and ask your boyfriend Keith Olbermann or Chris Matthews.
Like I ask every dope smoking college drop out lib, show some actual proof that FOX has either lied or provided fake news.
Linda
October 27th, 2009
3:26 pm
Dear Mr. Stupid, Help me understand why anyone other than the DC bunch, the uninsured poor & the illegals would benefit from socialized health care.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:27 pm
Stupid, who did this study on FOX NEWS?
Guesses: Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, Hussein Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton……….
Also, provide a link to back up your claims of a study.
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
3:27 pm
If medicare is acknowledged as being one of the most efficient, and cost effective providers of health care, wouldn’t it stand to reason that a public option, styled on medicare, would likewise be cost effective?
Chris Broe
October 27th, 2009
3:27 pm
I’m going to have to call a troll-coddling foul on Clyde Ringfelt today.
Today, Rush was ranting about obama’s deliberations concerning the surge in Afghanistan. “I will not ask you to risk your lives, unless it’s necessary”.
Rush cant ennunciate a mission for US troops in Afghanistan either. W couldn’t. Gates cant or wont, even though he’s former CIA director… Rumsfeld/Cheney – you’ve got to be kidding me.
There is no Afghan mission except to employ the defense industry. Capitalism doesn’t work without war.
Give our troops a mission. Somebody. Could it be that nobody knows what they’re talking about anymore? We just run our mouths, and we always threaten and cajole any dissent. If capitalism only works in wartime, then let’s start more wars and get Americans working again.
Somebody make a stand. The mission of US troops is to kill as many Afghan Scum as we possibly can…..WHAT?
Anybody want to take a shot at Iraq’s Strategic Mission? at long last?
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:29 pm
Linda, Stupid can’t. All Stupid can do is say that we are uneducated, even though I have two college degrees, hmmmm, can’t quite figure out how Ms. Stupid knows whether or not someone is smart or not. Anyway, no, Ms. Stupid has not read any of the health care bills. She just spews DNC talking points.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:30 pm
Ms Stupid writes: If medicare is acknowledged as being one of the most efficient, and cost effective providers of health care, wouldn’t it stand to reason that a public option, styled on medicare, would likewise be cost effective?
Well Ms. Stupid, I guess your name fits. MEDICARE IS GOING BANKRUPT. HAAAAAAAAAAA
saywhat?
October 27th, 2009
3:31 pm
Kyle, the reason the public option won’t die is simple. It is because in every creditable poll, more people are for it than against it. You can try to dismiss these polls as resulting from unrealistic beliefs of what the public option will or will not be, but that is pure conjecture on your part.You certainly are not claiming mind reading ability, are you? It seems a simpler and more reasonable guess would be that people are sick of being screwed over by insurance companies. With every passing day, more and more is revealed in the news of the slimy underbelly of the insurance industry. Why wouldn’t people want a system not motivated by naked greed?
The reason politicians don’t cater to the public will reflected in these poll results is because polls and public will don’t pay for re-election campaigns, dollars from insurance companies, big pharma, and for-profit healthcare do. Despite these dollars though, these entities can’t vote. Once a critical mass of public opinion is reached, where no amount of campaign funds can overcome it, the politicians will fall in line as well.
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
3:31 pm
Ask and thou shalt receive:
http://mirroronamerica.blogspot.com/2007/04/fox-viewers-least-informed-according-to.html
By the way the PEW study shows Daily vierers among the most informed.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:33 pm
Chris Broe, the mission is simple. Eradicate Islamic terrorist groups. Eliminate the capability of the Taliban and all other cells. We are not there to conquer the country. Obama has no clue as to what he is doing. It is above his pay grade.
Linda
October 27th, 2009
3:35 pm
This blog proves that Fox viewers are the most informed.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:35 pm
Stupid, I knew you were stupid but I didn’t realize how completely retarded you really are.
Your source…………… A FREAKING BLOOGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOW
I was looking for a report from Harvard or maybe Oxford……..but NO, you found a BLLOOOOOOG.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, you really do take the cake for stupidity today. Here is your dunce cap. Go sit in the corner.
I have two college degrees and I watch FOX. So, please tell me just how stupid and uninformed this college grad really is!!!!!!!
Where did you attend college, comrade?
Linda
October 27th, 2009
3:36 pm
If Medicare is the most efficient & cost effective provider of health care, why will it be bankrupt in 7 yrs.?
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:38 pm
Stupid, I found a blog that says Daily Show viewers smoke weed and flog the mule, if you know what I mean. Is it true? Well, according to a blog they do!!!!!! HAAAAAAAAAA
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:39 pm
Stupid, I believe this conservative college grad has utterly destroyed any credibility you may have had. Now, be a good little democrat servant and head back on over to the Daily Kos to plot your next animal rights meeting.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:40 pm
Kyle Wingfield, please don’t get mad at me for rubbing Stupids mistakes in her face. She deserved that one. I mean really, a blog?????
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:42 pm
Ms. Hatin’ on the stupid writes: By the way the PEW study shows Daily vierers among the most informed.
Hmmmmm, how many comebacks can I write based off of this????
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
3:44 pm
“Linda, Stupid can’t. All Stupid can do is say that we are uneducated, even though I have two college degrees, hmmmm, can’t quite figure out how Ms. Stupid knows whether or not someone is smart or not.”
Hey kyle, isn’t there a rule or something about people answering questions posed to other people. That is, creating words and putting them in my mouth. I have called no one on here any names, including “uneducated”. It seems Fraud listens to too much talk radio and trys to shout down anyone with a differing opinion. I thought this might be a forum with a more level playing field.
Linda
October 27th, 2009
3:45 pm
Saywhat, are you saying that there’s a credible poll that indicates 70% of Americans who have & like their health care & insurance are willing to give it up for socialized medicine for illegal aliens, the poor uninsured, our healthy young folks & pregnant women who don’t want their babies?
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
3:46 pm
Linda: “This blog proves that Fox viewers are the most informed.”
Whooo, Linda, that’s a good one!! This blog is at least one of the most amusing.
Chris Broe
October 27th, 2009
3:47 pm
On the Today Show, former CIA covert ops agent Mike Baker said that the initial casualty estimates for our 2003 invasion of Iraq were “tens of thousands”, and he chided those estimates and the new ghastly estimates of our possible surge in Afghanistan. “The real casualty figures were way, way lower” in Iraq. Wow, he managed to diss our troop’s sacrifice in Iraq and hide behind the flag. It was appalling and shameful.
This contradicts Rush’s, “When will it be absolutely necessary? What about the troops in Afghanistan already dead? Who is it necessary for?” The Born Again Birthers contradict themselves because they spin every data point into their circular logic. “I’m Right, therefore I’m right.”
Rush is persuasive. We’re totally convinced. Lets surge in Afghanistan because he’s mugging on the radio. (People cant see those faces you make, Rush. You’re a radio star. I thought video keeled the radio star, but I guess that was too much ask of VH1)
Fox News just reported that the Saucer Mom has charged that Professional Wrestling is a fake. In an extended interview, Fox determined that the Saucer Mom also thinks David Blaine’s magic tricks are stupid and crude and easily explained. “He’s palming cards. He uses confederates and stooges. He’s editing video. He’s a fake. Word.”
See the interview in it’s entirety on O’reilly tonite!
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:47 pm
Stupid, waaaaaaaaaaah, what a crybaby.
You write: I thought this might be a forum with a more level playing field.
No, that would be Kindergarten. Maybe your mom can dry your tears.
You also write: Hey kyle, isn’t there a rule or something about people answering questions posed to other people. That is, creating words and putting them in my mouth.
One: No there is not a rule and two, I didn;t put words into your mouth.
Anyone who calls themselves Hatin’ on the stupid is asking for trouble.
Road Scholar
October 27th, 2009
3:48 pm
Afraud: Hate to tell you that you didn’t hurt my feelings. I know it would have made your day! Don’t read Huffington or Kos. But I do read AND comprehend!
Fix-it: ” It will always amaze me that the polls for liberals always come out to what they want it to. Look who they poll, their supporters, which is not accurate.” Same for the conserves, right?(change liberal to conserve).
Afraud: My proctologist says he’d like to meet you! She said she has never seen such a perfect a$$hole! (Sorry to the other bloggers; I vowed not to stoop so low as some of the others.) Seriously, get a handle on your anger; it will bite you in the end!
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:50 pm
Chris Broe, you should check out the entire list of Democrats who said that Iraq was a necessary and needed war.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:52 pm
Road Scholar writes: Afraud: My proctologist says he’d like to meet you! She said she has never seen such a perfect a$$hole! (Sorry to the other bloggers; I vowed not to stoop so low as some of the others.) Seriously, get a handle on your anger; it will bite you in the end!
AWWWWWWWWWWWWWE, Road Non-Scholar can make a funny!!!!!!!! HA!
No anger here comrade. I am laughing all the way to the bank!
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
3:54 pm
Well, fraud, if you don’t like that report on the PEW study showing Faux viewer among the least informed, take your pick. I just referenced the first of hundreds that I came to. Here’s another;
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/259144
But I don’t suppose you care to see facts. You only believe lies.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:54 pm
Road Scholar, I’m happy that you can read. It’s something I learned how to do when I was four years old. It’s been a big help for me. HA! You also vowed not to stoop so low????? When did this happen?
By the way, for the fourth time, have you read any of the five health care bills?
Linda
October 27th, 2009
3:54 pm
Kyle, please don’t pass a rule about people answering questions posed to other people. Having more than one perspective is why Dems watch both Fox & MSNBC. Thank you.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
3:57 pm
Hatin’ on the stupid, WHAT PEW STUDY?????? YOU NEVER POSTED ONE!
Bottom line: If FOX is not real news then neither is MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS, CNN, Huffingtonpost etc…….
At least FOX didn’t make up lies about Obama the way it did with Bush. See: Dan Rather.
You wrote: But I don’t suppose you care to see facts. You only believe lies.
HAAAAAAAAAA, THIS COMING FROM A LEFT WING NUT WHO STATES THAT A BLOG IS REAL NEWS!!!!!!! PRICELESS.
WHAT LIES DO I BELIEVE OH WISE ONE???????
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
3:57 pm
Well, Fraud, let me put it more bluntly. Don’t answer questions to me from others. I speak for myself. You do the same.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
4:00 pm
Hatin’ on the stupid, HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
YOU JUST POSTED ANOTHER LEFT WING ARTICLE WRITTEN BY………..A LEFT WING DEMOCRAT.
How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you post blogs and articles written by people who hate FOX NEWS?????
It’s like you telling me that I have to hate America because Michael Moore hates it.
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
4:00 pm
Fraud: “WHAT PEW STUDY??????”
For someone who brags about how much he reads, you obviously didn’t read the report. I guess you just read what confirms your pre-conceived notions.
Hatin' on the stupid
October 27th, 2009
4:01 pm
Hey, don’t hate the messenger…
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
4:01 pm
Hatin’ on the stupid, are you the new Obama appointed AJC CZAR?????????
You write: Don’t answer questions to me from others. I speak for myself. You do the same.
Um hum………Let me clear my throat……… Ok, here goes: MAKE ME.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
4:04 pm
Hatin’ on the stupid, ehhhhhhhhhh wrong Stupid!!!!! I read it. I wanted YOU to provide the ACTUAL report. You failed to do so. Instead, you post a blog by someone who hates FOX NEWS.
By the way, if you hate FOX so much……..don’t watch it. Watch Yo Gabba Gabba. Seems like someone with your low IQ can handle.
David Axelfraud
October 27th, 2009
4:06 pm
Hatin’ on the stupid is used to having her way over on Bookmans blog. Stupid can get away with name calling and hateful rhetoric over there. She is not used to having other bloggers debate and debunk her lies and left wing nonsense. Poor whittle girl.
Road Scholar
October 27th, 2009
4:06 pm
“Can’t argue with stupid”