Night of the living public option

At Reason, Peter Suderman asks a good question: Why won’t the public option die?

And don’t start by telling me that it’s oh-so-popular and yet somehow Republicans have just scared too many people –including a number of Senate Democrats — about it. If the public option is so darn popular, why is Nancy Pelosi trying to rebrand it so that people think they’re getting something other than what we’ve been discussing for months?

If it’s so popular, why has President Obama remained non-committal about it all this time? The fact is that the hypothetical public option in which millions of Americans magically receive new health coverage from the insurance fairy is popular, but a public option in which people are specifically asked to help pay for other people’s new coverage is not. Thus Speaker Pelosi’s attempt at trickeration.

The new “opt-out” idea from Harry Reid, in which states could decide not to participate in the new federal government insurance plan, is cut from the same cloth as Pelosi’s maneuvering. If the point were to give states a true choice in the matter, an “opt-in” plan would be far more intellectually honest since the easiest thing for state politicians to do is to not to deviate from the default option that Washington gives them. But Reid’s point, of course, is to set a public option in motion while giving the appearance of flexibility. Don’t fall for it.

178 comments Add your comment

Chris Broe

October 27th, 2009
11:45 am

“Thus Speaker Pelosi’s attempt at t-t-trickeration.”

Thus Spake Stutter-palooza.

CNN just reported that this Halloween will be the first halloween where trick or treaters can say, “trick or tweet”, because if they don’t like the lousy candy you hand them, the word goes out on twitter, and your house could be “smart-TP’d” by mobs of sugar-gorged twitter followers, man.

So give the M+Ms, and don’t be so cheap. And tweet your congressman in support of a public option. Tweet often. Be polite. And be sure to use 25 words or less.

jconservative

October 27th, 2009
12:06 pm

“…an “opt-in” plan would be far more intellectually honest…”

Kyle are you opting for Snowe’s “trigger”?

booger

October 27th, 2009
12:16 pm

My understanding of the opt out plan is that states could opt out for the next four years, but the plan would still be paid for from general funds meaning citizens from these states would be paying for citizens in the states which remain in the plan.

Please let me know if I’m wrong. And don’t use the argument that the plan would be self sustaining. There are provisions for the government to pay all or part of the cost for those earning under $54,000 for a family of four. A bunch of tax dollars will be required.

Kyle Wingfield

October 27th, 2009
12:29 pm

No, jconservative, I’m saying just what I’m saying: that if you’re going to have a plan in which states get to decide whether to participate, opt-in is more of a real “option” than opt-out.

booger

October 27th, 2009
12:42 pm

Kyle,

I just got my question answered. The illegitimate news network, FOX, just interviewed a democratic senator from Penn. The question asked him was what tax consideration would opt out states get in the bill. He stated there is no savings to those states, however after initial costs
to get the plan up and running, it should be self supporting.

This means there would be costs to the general fund to subsidize lower income people so they could afford the plan. This also means the opt out states would subsidize those who opt in. This in turn means opt out would be a stupid option for any state.

lmno

October 27th, 2009
12:51 pm

So, if the states could choose to “Opt In” rather than “Opt out”, you’d support it?

I don’t think I even understand what the difference would be, but fine.

I am happy that the Public Option is being included in this bill. If Georgia
“Opts out” then I can decide if I want to Opt out of Georgia to a state that chooses to provide health care for its citizens. I think its the best idea yet. Let the states be different. Completely different. Let Georgia be a state with low taxes, no government programs like social security or welfare, strict moral legislation, religious indoctrination in schools, and other things taht are popular here. Then otehr states can have their legal drugs, governmnet provided healthcare, gay marriage, and other things that are popular there.

Then, all we have to do is move to the state that best meets our desires.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
12:53 pm

This is getting to be a rather old and tired discussion. The American public does NOT want government health care. Period. IF this passes it will be the end of freedom in America.

On another note, Kyle, have you been paying any attention to the NY 23rd district race at all? It’s very interesting.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
12:56 pm

Obama’s big change: He moves America to the Right

By: Byron York

As promised, Barack Obama is bringing change to America. He’s making it more Republican.

It’s not that more people are actually becoming Republicans or calling themselves Republicans — the number of voters who formally identify with the party is at its lowest point in years. But we appear to be in the early stages of a shift in which political independents, people who not too long ago were sick of Republicans, are now leaning toward GOP positions on some key issues.

They still call themselves independents, but they’re worried by the left-leaning policies of President Obama and the Democratic Congress, especially on the economy. “The middle, which wanted to move away from George W. Bush, did not want to move this far left,” says a Republican pollster who is tracking the shift. “They are tending to agree with what Republicans are saying more and more, despite the previous eight years.”

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Obama_s-big-change_-He-moves-America-to-the-Right-8442204-66186122.html

Road Scholar

October 27th, 2009
1:16 pm

Afraud: ” The American public does NOT want government health care. ”

And who elected you God? Polls show that many people do.

I think that Reid is setting up the amendment from others (Snowe perhaps) for the trigger on the public option. Insurance companies are already acting like the banks in adjusting rates up before the banking and now the health care laws go into affect. This legislation would go into effect in 2013, plenty of time to see what the healthcare industry is up to. Constantly increasing rates with reduced coverage is what’s in store if nothing is done. Can’t you see that? We’re ranked 40th something in world healthcare still? I think conserves thought that we were NO 1!

And we cannot catch diseases from low income folks? Yeah, sure!

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
1:42 pm

Road Non-Scholar writes: And who elected you God? Polls show that many people do.

If that is true then how come the Dems can’t get anything passed? Also, if the public wanted it then Obamas and the democrat poll numbers would not be so low. Obama has passed every other president in history with the lowest poll numbers in this phase of his presidency.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
1:45 pm

More bad news for Obama. If the former communist news is saying that we are moving to socialism……

America Moving from Kingdom of Cash to Socialism Slowly but Surely

Obama’s decision not to build the Missile Defense System in Poland and the Czech Republic and his Noble Prize have not yet been comprehended from a philosophical viewpoint. It’s time to do it.

Power of Money against Power of Spirit

The last turning point similar to the current one happened approximately 400 years ago. The Western European society discovered a new hierarchy of values. Feudalism that valued service and chivalry was replaced with capitalism. Wealth became the measure of success, and everyone was to care about his own pocket only. The cult of money replaced all other values, including religious.

http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/19-10-2009/109973-socialism-0

William

October 27th, 2009
1:46 pm

The public option or however you title it is simply a democrat scheme to buy votes from the poor or those who have depended on the state for generations that provides everything for them–FOR FREE!

It is a joke and it is a costly joke. I hope there are enough sensible people in congress to dismiss Pelosi and Reid for the jokes they really are.

artatlarge

October 27th, 2009
1:52 pm

You have nothing to worry about on this one, Mr. Wingfield.
I’d bet my last dollar and my left you-know-what that given the chance to “opt out”, the state of Georgia will definitely do just that.
Our leaders of late have proven consistently conservative, even though the accepted
Federal stimulus cash after railing against it, voting against the Franken Amendment, and not even allowing a vote on Sunday alcohol sales.
And hey, David Axelfraud…how many times do you righties have to be told something before you can accept it? IT’S NOT GOV’T HEALTHCARE, IT’S GOV’T HEALTH INSURANCE! Big difference.

hryder

October 27th, 2009
1:56 pm

The fact remains that politicians are trying to buy votes with OUR money. What in Hades name is the problem with taxpayers who seem to think they are not paying for everything the various governments provide. Understand that the parasitic citizens do not pay for the same services because they yearly pay no taxes directly and many actually receive funds provided by taxpayers for purchases. Such PC Mooches should not be permitted to vote.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
2:02 pm

artatlarge writes: how many times do you righties have to be told something before you can accept it? IT’S NOT GOV’T HEALTHCARE, IT’S GOV’T HEALTH INSURANCE! Big difference.

I don’t have to be told anything dim wit. I can read and I have read two bills so far. Guess what, NO ONE IN CONGRESS HAS READ EITHER BILLS. I’m not a sheep like you. I don’t just “do as I am told” like you and other kool aid drinkers.

Oh, if government health care is not government health care then why is the government looking for doctors to work in government health care????????

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
2:04 pm

hryder, I believe that people who want to vote should have to take a series of tests in order to vote. But noooooooooo, liberals would deem that racist. Anything that goes against liberalism is racist.

Shananeeee Fananeeeeeee

October 27th, 2009
2:04 pm

I have a sure bet for you, look for Harry Reid, Democrat Majority Leader from Nevada, to not be re-elected next year. This guy is done. Teleprompter Man(Obama) is as corrupt as they come. I’m still checking CSPAN everyday for Obama’s promise to have healthcare debates around a big table with doctors and insurance companies. I am wondering when this will happen? Something tells me not to hold my breath. Change in 2010 and 2012, Change we are looking forward to.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
2:06 pm

artatlarge, explain the entire health care bill. Since you seem to be for it, explain how it works.

Bottom line: you have not read it.

artatlarge is a kool aid drinking obamabot who lives off her mom’s social security checks.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
2:08 pm

President Dope and Chains is losing support for the democrat party. In every governor race, democrats trail BIIIIIIIIIIIIIG. Poor poor Obama. The man-child can’t stand defeat.

Ga Values

October 27th, 2009
2:19 pm

Housing prices have stabilized but our 2 RINO Senators want to blow another $18 Billion on a fraud filled housing program. How can they call themselves Republicans?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/business/economy/28home.html?hp

Road Scholar

October 27th, 2009
2:25 pm

Look out Kyle, Afraud is taking over your blog. You better not be out any more!

Afraud, do you have to insult everyone? Insulting and yelling (not accusing you of this…yet) are a sign of a week arguement. As for why haven’t they passed anything yet, the democrats do not walk to the beat of one drum. When Bush, or was it Cheney (who really was president?), went about proposing legislation, the Repubs followed as lemmings to the sea. (Oh by the way, just how were the wars in Iraq and Afgan suppose to be paid for? Your tab is due!)

As they say, making legislation in DC is like making sausage; you really don’t want to know how they got there or what falls on the floor! This problem has been brewing for decades, and you, like most people, want a 30 second sound bit and the problem to go away. You are witnessing politics in action, with some conservatives lies thrown in! Perhaps if Obama didn’t have to defend his beliefs or correct the blatant and numerous lies put forth, then we could get some real work done. Isn’t that the repub Mantra; keep the Demos busy on other things than what they are trying to focusing on?

Ray Pugh

October 27th, 2009
2:26 pm

Fellow interweb travelers.

You do realize that bloggers **cough**David Axelfraud**cough** are salaried employees/independently contracted bloggers of the RNC/right-wing thinktanks/PACs, don’t you?

Ray Pugh

October 27th, 2009
2:27 pm

Linda

October 27th, 2009
2:31 pm

artatlarge, Our current private health insurance companies have much control over our health care. If this is merely about govt. health insurance, why is it creating 53 new govt. agencies? O used some examples to push this bill. He accused a pediatrician of removing a child’s tonsils because the doctor would make more $ than writing a prescription. (Ludicrous.) He said that doctors should prescribe pain medication more often rather than knee replacement for Grandma. I was with the impression he feels DC wants to be very involved in our health care, between us & the medical profession.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
2:32 pm

Road Non-Scholar, awe, your wittle feewings got hurt. Boo hoo. Go cry to your master Obama.

What is the world does Dick Cheney have to do with socialized government health care? Again, you didn’t answer your own argument so I don’t really know how else say this. You have not explained your own comment. If you are going to debate someone you might want to actually read the health care bill you are arguing for. Dim wit.

You wrote: Perhaps if Obama didn’t have to defend his beliefs or correct the blatant and numerous lies put forth, then we could get some real work done.

WHAT BELIEFS?????? HE DOESN’T EVEN KNOW WHAT HE BELIEVES. IT TOOK HIM FOUR MONTHS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT KIND OF DOG TO GET HIS KIDS.

Now that’s Change I can believe in!!!!!!! Yes we can, blah blah blah.

Bottom line: Obama is nothing more than an empty suit who still thinks he’s running a campaign against George W. Bush.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
2:32 pm

Ray Pugh, how much is Bookman paying you to be here?

Ray Pugh

October 27th, 2009
2:40 pm

David Assyoullprod,

Come to think of it, after reading your posts, there’s no way you’re a RNC shill–their typing apes have far more cogent arguments than your repetitive braying. Maybe you should go to the same school Wingnut graduated from for a little training in how to be a right-wing troll…

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
2:45 pm

Ray Pugh, I read both bills. From top to bottom. Road Scholar basically said that everyone needs to just except whatever plan Lord Obama has for us all. I asked him to tell me the difference between government health care and government insurance. He did not do that. SO guess what, I defended myself against his asinine comments.

Now, you can say whatever you want about me but the fact remains that you and Ms. Scholar can’t defend the health care bill. Moron.

Fix-It

October 27th, 2009
2:45 pm

Road Scholar,
Who elected YOU God? The vast majority of American’s, about 70% do NOT want this abomination to see the light of day. But if you trust the HuffungtonPuss or the daily COS then we can only pray for you. It will always amaze me that the polls for liberals always come out to what they want it to. Look who they poll, their supporters, which is not accurate. So let’s try some common sense 70% of American’s get their healthcare through the work place and are happy with it. So why do liberals want to destroy the happiness of 70% of Americans to make the other 30% happy. Does that seem like a democratic thing to do? If you do please use logic and common sense to tell me why, or better yet how come this administration is not even trying to make more jobs? I guess if they had jobs they would have healthcare and Obozo and his goons would not have a leg to stand on.

Fix-It

October 27th, 2009
2:46 pm

Wait when will it be posted on line for 72 hours before a vote?

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
2:48 pm

Fix-It, great point. It’s like when libs like Obama and others claim that FOX NEWS is not real news. YET, CNN and MSNBC employs ex-Carter and ex-Clinton cabinet members.

Just A Grunt

October 27th, 2009
2:48 pm

Whatever name you want ot put on this scheme from the Democrats the bottom line is it will effectively drive most private insurance companies out of business. It is targeted right at them. The government will always be able to undermine the cost simply by either operating at a loss for a while or increasing taxes, sorry the Dems word is fees, on everybody. As the private insurance companies go out of business more and more people join up on the government plan increasing costs which will force taxes to go up. It is a self defeating plan and is pretty much nothing more then a Ponzi scheme similar to what Bernie Madoff went to jail for and why Social Security is in trouble.

And then what happens???

Dope and Change

October 27th, 2009
2:49 pm

OBAMA LIED, SOLDIERS DIED. OBAMA LIED, SOLDIERS DIED. OBAMA LIED, SOLDIERS DIED. OBAMA LIED, SOLDIERS DIED. OBAMA LIED, SOLDIERS DIED. OBAMA LIED, SOLDIERS DIED. OBAMA LIED, SOLDIERS DIED. OBAMA LIED, SOLDIERS DIED. OBAMA LIED, SOLDIERS DIED. OBAMA LIED, SOLDIERS DIED.

8 US troops die; new deadliest month in Afghan war

KABUL – Eight American troops were killed in two separate bomb attacks Tuesday in southern Afghanistan, making October the deadliest month of the war for U.S. forces since the 2001 invasion to oust the Taliban.

In one of the insurgent assaults, seven Americans were killed while patrolling in armored vehicles, U.S. forces spokesman Lt. Col. Todd Vician said. He said an Afghan civilian died in the same attack. The eighth American was killed in a separate bombing elsewhere in the south, also while patrolling in a military vehicle, he said.

The military issued a statement saying the deaths occurred during “multiple, complex” bomb strikes. It said several troops were wounded and evacuated to a nearby medical facility, but gave no other details.

Capt. Adam Weece, a spokesman for American forces in the south, said both attacks occurred in Kandahar province. In Washington, a U.S. defense official said at least one was followed by an intense firefight with insurgents who attacked after an initial bomb went off. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to release the information.

The deaths bring to 55 the total number of American troops killed in October in Afghanistan. The previous high occurred in August, when 51 U.S. soldiers died and the troubled nation held the first round of its presidential election amid a wave of Taliban insurgent attacks.

The deadliest month of the Iraq conflict for U.S. forces was November 2004, when 137 Americans were killed during the assault to clear insurgents from the city of Fallujah.

“A loss like this is extremely difficult for the families as well as for those who served alongside these brave service members,” said Navy Capt. Jane Campbell, a military spokeswoman. “Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends who mourn their loss.”

The loss of life followed one of the worst days of the war for U.S. forces in Afghanistan since they launched air strikes in 2001 to oust the Taliban from power.

On Monday, a U.S. military helicopter crashed returning from the scene of a firefight with suspected Taliban drug traffickers in western Afghanistan, killing 10 Americans including three DEA agents. In a separate crash the same day, four more U.S. troops were killed when two helicopters collided over southern Afghanistan.

U.S. military officials insisted neither crash was the result of hostile fire, although the Taliban claimed they shot down a U.S. helicopter in the western province of Badghis. The U.S. did not say where in western Afghanistan its helicopter went down, and no other aircraft were reported missing.

Those casualties marked the Drug Enforcement Administration’s first deaths since it began operations here in 2005. Afghanistan is the world’s largest producer of opium — the raw ingredient in heroin — and the illicit drug trade is a major source of funding for insurgent groups.

Ray Pugh

October 27th, 2009
2:51 pm

you know the difference b/w gov’t insurance and gov’t health care, but not “accept” and “except”?

Ray Pugh

October 27th, 2009
2:53 pm

Wingfield,

Exercise some control over your blog and ban some of these trolls! For someone who believes in maintaining order, you sure do a lousy job keeping your own house in order. Typical conservative…

Kyle Wingfield

October 27th, 2009
2:54 pm

Axelfraud: Sorry, but no 2,000-word comments allowed.

Tommy Maddox

October 27th, 2009
2:54 pm

I always thought of Nancy Pelosi as being the San Francisco version of Cynthia McKinney. The big difference/problem is that a lot of fools are following along with Pelosi rather than dismissing her as the wack-job she really is.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
2:55 pm

Ray Puke, simple typo, comrade. I was typing very fast. Anyway, meant to write ACCEPT. And yes, I know the difference.

booger

October 27th, 2009
2:58 pm

I would like to point out once again that those states who opt out of the plan will still pay taxes for those states in the plan. This essentially means there is no real viable option.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
2:59 pm

Kyle Wingfield, maybe you should establish a set of rules. How was I to know that you had a no 2,000 word ban on your blog?

Ray Pugh, funny you say that, Bookman allows left-wing nut jobs, like yourself, run amok all the time on his blogs.

Like they say, if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. You jumped in here and attacked me first.

Maybe all the weed fried your brain cells. Here is what you wrote about me BEFORE I ever said anything about you.

Ray Pugh

October 27th, 2009
2:26 pm

Fellow interweb travelers.

You do realize that bloggers **cough**David Axelfraud**cough** are salaried employees/independently contracted bloggers of the RNC/right-wing thinktanks/PACs, don’t you?

Kyle Wingfield

October 27th, 2009
3:00 pm

Ray Pugh: You call me Wingnut and then ask me to ban someone else?

I will pull down comments that are patently unacceptable — like Axelfraud’s latest linking a commenter to Chris Matthews — but I haven’t seen anything on here that merits a ban.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
3:00 pm

Ray Pugh, you also were the first to attack me with names.

Ray Pugh

October 27th, 2009
2:40 pm

David Assyoullprod,

Come to think of it, after reading your posts, there’s no way you’re a RNC shill–their typing apes have far more cogent arguments than your repetitive braying. Maybe you should go to the same school Wingnut graduated from for a little training in how to be a right-wing troll…

Ray Pugh

October 27th, 2009
3:02 pm

Oh have a sense of humor Kyle! “Wingnut” is just so easy how could I resist?

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
3:03 pm

Ray Pugh called me an ape! THAT’S RACIST!!!!!!!!!! WHERE IS JESSE AND AL?

OH WAIT, I WILL CALL UP CYNTHIA TUCKER.

Kyle Wingfield

October 27th, 2009
3:03 pm

And feel free to keep using it, Mr. Pugh.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
3:03 pm

Ray Pugh writes: Oh have a sense of humor Kyle! “Wingnut” is just so easy how could I resist?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, this is AFTER Puke tries to get Kyle to ban me for name calling.

RAY PUGH = HYPOCRITE!!!!!!

Hatin' on the stupid

October 27th, 2009
3:05 pm

Kyle, maybe the public option will not die because polls show, after the blitz of lies this Summer derailed it somewhat, that Americans want it. Let’s see if the dems can find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
3:07 pm

Hatin’ on the stupid, what lies are you talking about? NOT ONE congressman has read any of the socialist health care bills.

Ray Pugh

October 27th, 2009
3:07 pm

DA,

The banning request was made for your ridiculously long copy ‘n paste jobs, not for the namecalling. Why do you think someone named “Ray Pugh” would have a problem w/ namecalling?

David Axelfraud

October 27th, 2009
3:09 pm

Stupid, what is hilarious is the fact that your party can’t get anything done. What’s even funnier is the fact that democrats control both houses and the presidency. What’s even funnier than that is the fact that liberals, like you, call the republican party, stupid. If the GOP is stupid then your party must be the party of insanity.