Obama and health care: Why Americans aren’t buying his pitch
President Obama has been talking seemingly nonstop about health-care reform for about three months now. Yet the New York Times declares Americans still “confused and anxious about a health care overhaul”: A recent poll by the newspaper and CBS News found a plurality of 46 percent doesn’t know enough about the president’s reform plans to say whether they support or oppose them. Only 30 percent strongly support them; 23 percent strongly oppose them.
Why hasn’t Obama been able to take control of this debate?
It isn’t for lack of manufacturing concern about the topic. In January, only 2 percent of Americans considered health care our most important problem; that number has grown steadily to 19 percent this month, second only to the economy.
It isn’t for lack of talking about health care. Just 4 percent of those polled think the president is making too few speeches and public appearances to talk about his proposals.
It isn’t for lack of reading about health-care proposals on the public’s part. More than three-quarters of those polled say they have read “some” or “a lot” about the plans.
So here are some possible explanations.
The number of people favoring only minor changes to the system, while still low at 19 percent, is the highest it’s been since Hillary Clinton was trying to sell her own reform back in 1994. The number of people favoring a complete rebuild, 27 percent, has only been lower once in 18 years of polling on the question. (The choice that won a majority of support, “fundamental changes,” is so vague as to be meaningless.)
Maybe that’s because, as other polls confirm, a very large majority of Americans are satisfied with the health care they receive. And as many people are satisfied with health-care costs as are dissatisfied.
A solid majority doesn’t think Obama has explained his plans well (despite, remember, thinking that he has made plenty of speeches and appearances to talk about them). And to the degree that they do understand what he’s selling, they think he’s being overly optimistic.
And despite thinking the GOP is being more partisan than the president, two-thirds of those polled think Congress should only pass a plan that has Republican support.
Bottom line: The president and other Democrats are pushing vague, overhyped plans that need to be more bipartisan if they’re going to have Americans’ support. Until they fix those problems, they’re going to have a health-care problem with the public.
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91 comments Add your comment
Al Sharptongue
September 25th, 2009
11:36 am
By americans do you mean right wing christian conservatives? Its funny how you guys are the only “Americans”, when you talk.
Most americans support some tuype of healthcare reform because they know the system is screwed up
Al Sharptongue
September 25th, 2009
11:36 am
Oh yea …………First!!!
Kyle Wingfield
September 25th, 2009
11:51 am
No, Al Sharptongue, by “Americans,” I mean the people included in the NYT/CBS poll: 22 percent Republicans, 37 percent Democrats, 33 percent independents.
Betty
September 25th, 2009
11:53 am
Enter your comments here The Democracts may need to do several things that they haven’t done regarding health care; however, the Republican will never vote for healthcare reform no matter what plan the Dem. come up with. The health care system needs to be reformed end of story. If the insurance industry was going to reformed itself, it would have done an act of Congress is not need to stop denying coverage for a pre existing condition
jconservative
September 25th, 2009
12:21 pm
“…a very large majority of Americans are satisfied with the health care they receive. And as many people are satisfied with health-care costs as are dissatisfied.”
So when people find their employer provided health care cost increasing every year they will not complain. And when they find their FICA cost increasing in 2 years they will not complain. And when their federal income taxes go through the roof after the baby boomers go on medicare they will not complain.
I keep repeating – medicare/medicaid & schip will spend $803.1 billion in the fiscal year starting 10/1/2009. That figure will double in a few years. No one is lifting a finger to resolve the problem.
booger
September 25th, 2009
12:52 pm
jconservative,
There is no bill required for the admin. to fix medicare, medicaid and schip. they are all govt. programs. If Obama can take $500 billion out of these programs, then why doesn’t he do it. Fix what’s wrong. don’t reform the entire system.
I Bleed White and Old Gold
September 25th, 2009
12:55 pm
Many sources say that health care costs are rising faster than our Gross Domestic Product (GDP).
Does anyone know which components of health care are rising so fast?…technology, salaries, new pharmaceuticals, new medical devices, profits, etc. If we can find those components, can we forecast that they will continue to rise in cost faster than our economy. Or can there be curbs for the fast-growing components?
Citizen of the World
September 25th, 2009
1:04 pm
Just want to go on record here, since nobody polled me, I’m in favor of health care reform that will protect me from getting dropped by an insurance company if I get sick, that will allow me to buy health insurance coverage despite a pre-existing condition, that will make coverage affordable to Americans at all income levels, and will bring down the cost of treatment and reduce the need for so much defensive medicine. This is what the Democrat’s plan pretty much offers. They’re trying to make sure it pays for itself, but even if it didn’t I would still support it because at least it would be money spent here in America to help Americans.
citizen
September 25th, 2009
1:21 pm
Kyle, do us a favor and research all the waste of tax dollars coming out of the National Institute of Health.
I believe we need a health care reform package; I just will NEVER go along with ANY Bill that is so large and so complicated that Sen. John Kerry states that we couldn’t understand it even if we did try to read the entire Bill. I have never thought that only elected politicians are smart enough to know what’s best for ALL americans.
Linda
September 25th, 2009
1:29 pm
One of the problems with the health care/insurance/reform bills & amendments is that they don’t have anything to do with health care, insurance or real reform. Many Americans view it merely as an excuse for govt. to take over another segment of our economy. Most Americans don’t want the govt. involved whatsoever in our health care. It takes long enough to buy stamps. Just imagine trying to get a shot. It includes NO tort reform, the largest problem we currently have. (As long as new mommies can sue OBGYN’s for stretch marks, we will continue to have problems.)
Liberals & Democrats are those Americans who range from 9 o’clock to 12 o’clock, whereas Conservatives & Republicans range from 12 o’clock to 3 o’clock. The vast majority of Americans range from 11 o’clock to 1 o’clock. All Americans from 11:00 to 3:00 oppose the public option & that includes the Blue Dog Democrats in Congress.
The pres said he wouldn’t sign a bill that adds to the deficit. The last word from the CBO was it would add $1.9 Trillion & they warned of dire consequences! According to usdebtclock.org, our debt is almost $12 Trillion! That does not include $59 Trillion for medicare/medicaid, social security or the prescription liability that are unfunded. The money from our paychecks the govt. has been collecting all our lives for our old age didn’t go into a secure escrow account. They’ve already spent that, too. Not only does the govt. have NO money, we need $71 Trillion. Out debt is so bad that we are spending almost as much on interest each year as we are for medicare/medicaid, social security or defense/wars.
Bottom line is that America CANNOT AFFORD public health care now or at any time in the foreseeable future. We are insolvent & could go bankrupt.
Casey
September 25th, 2009
1:30 pm
There is no way to reconcile this issue with bipartisanship. Republicans will never vote for a plan with a public option which, in itself, was the pre-emptive compromise. When Republicans clamor for bipartisanship, what it really is is an impromptu filibuster. It’s your easy way of rejecting everything the Democrats are proposing. No, the Democrats have been trying too hard to be bipartisan and it’s exactly why we’re in this gridlock.
As far as the polling is concerned, Americans would be happy with anything that wasn’t physically stabbing them in the back. I’m pretty happy with my health care, but that isn’t the issue is it? This is a moral issue; everybody’s health should be covered no matter how poor they are.
tehixe
September 25th, 2009
1:36 pm
“The president and other Democrats are pushing vague, overhyped plans that need to be more bipartisan if they’re going to have Americans’ support.”
That’s absolutely hilarious. Seriously, you’re joking, right? Or you live under a rock?
It is not far off the mark to call the Republican opposition to healthcare reform “massive resistance.” They do not want a bill passed. For them, it is a political football, and if they can keep it away from the Democrats, they win points. For them, that is the beginning, middle, and the end of the healthcare reform debate.
To the extent that Republicans do support healthcare reform, they support paying subsidies to the insurance companies in exchange for their providing the same crappy service they already do. Case in point: Medicare Advantage. Reform will not be bipartisan unless it involves massive cash payments to the industries that have paid off the Repubs. As such, bipartisanship is worse than a joke, it’s a slap in the face to the American people. To the extent that people support it, those people are simply uninformed about the Republican position.
I Bleed White and Old Gold
September 25th, 2009
1:40 pm
Casey
I understand your point of view, but as a man on a fixed income and barely making ends meet, any increase in my costs is disastrous to me. I feel badly for those who cannot get health insurance, and if I were wealthy I would want to supplement their costs. Realistically I cannot. Thus I am opposed to increases, any increases, in my personal costs.
dbc
September 25th, 2009
1:41 pm
Al, you are correct. Most Americans want some kind of change. But most Americans have also stood in too many DMV lines enduring red tape to get a license. Most Americans wonder why the tax process is so darned hard in January (although one of our administration members doesn’t think he has to pay taxes). Most Americans know that Medicare, the Post Office and Social Security are bankrupt. And most Americans don’t exactly think of our government officials as having any business sense what so ever. Change? Sure, I voted for it. But not stupidity. Frankly, I have zero faith in the governments qualifications to run the countries healthcare system. Change, yes. But not owned and run by a bunch of unqualified government beauracracies.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 25th, 2009
1:44 pm
In my view, whether one is for or against health care reform, Obama made some serious tactical mistakes. Rather than send his own bill to Congress, he let them handle writing the bill(s) which has resulted in an incomprehensible mishmash that few can understand. People will usually take the devil they know over the devil they don’t know. He’s been on TV quite a bit but he never gets into specifics; the average American wants to know if this will make things better for them and if they aren’t convinced of that most will say no. Inspite of all his speeches, he just hasn’t made his case.
He would have gotten farther if he’d sent his own proposal to Congress, went to the people and said “this is how this works and how it’s going to make things better for you”. For some reason he tried to hold himself above the fray and it was a serious mistake, tactically speaking.
retiredds
September 25th, 2009
1:46 pm
Kyle, reading poll number is like what is in the eye of the beholder. After reading your comments I decided to look at the NYT/CBS poll numbers myself (the poll you quoted to Al Sharptongue. While there is a decided decline in President Obama’s numbers they are not alarming, more, I would say, of being more in line with past presidents. “At 56 percent, Mr. Obama’s job approval rating is similar to what President Ronald Reagan’s was at this point in his first term (53 percent); President Bill Clinton’s was at 43 percent.”
If you look at the numbers more closely you and your Republican friends have more to worry about. From the Times article, “But the poll suggests that Mr. Obama is in a decidedly more commanding position than Republicans on this issue as Congressional negotiations move into final stages. Most Americans trust Mr. Obama more than Republicans to make the right decisions on the issue; 76 percent said Republicans had not even laid out a clear health care plan.
And by a lopsided margin, respondents said that Mr. Obama and not Republicans had made an effort to cross party lines and strike a deal that has the support of both parties. Two-thirds of respondents said they wanted Congress to come up with a bill supported by both sides.”
A large majority of Americans, conservatives included in the term Americans, want health care reform. If your party is perceived as dragging their feet in order to defeat reform you will be remembered for that. It appears to me that the formula, while onerous, is working. The debate is happening, as it should, in the Congress, the peoples’ representatives. And, by the way, poll numbers fluctuate year-to-year. From my perspective while it is not perfect President Obama is on the right track as it relates to: domestic economic and fiscal policy, foreign policy, reform of the financial system in the US and world, international relations, transportation (high speed rail), and many other issues that have been left to others by past administrations. Kyle, the chickens have come home to roost, to do nothing would be a tragic mistake.
So, will you and the right wing conservatives stop focusing on what is wrong with health care reform and participate in the process FOR all Americans. It is easy to be obstructionists it is something else to be at the table and formulating solutions (a la, Sen. Olympia Snowe).
And may I throw this in, I seem to recall that your conservative hero George W. Bush lobbied pretty hard to drop Afghanistan to take on the Iraq war (and keep most if not all the costs of that war off-budget – a lesson in Republican transparency). Now we are faced with having to make a major decision in Afghanistan because Georgie boy left out to dry.
Finally, I agree with several commentators from the left and the right that the Republican party has become irrelevant. The party has sewn its own seeds of destruction because it has no coherent agenda, other than trying to keep things the same old same old, and allowing Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, Coulter, Palin, and the far right religious right be its spokespersons. When you come up with someone, or even a couple of people, who are rational you might then become part of the solution to America’s challenges instead of the problem.
I would love to see you do an article on the transportation issues facing Georgia. I would be interested if some of the Republican legislators will allow voters to vote whether, or not, to tax ourselves to improve local and regional transportation. Ah, but that would take power out of their family values hands and give it to the people. What a radical idea.
stands for decibels
September 25th, 2009
1:59 pm
I’m just wondering—how easy and quick did people imagine a comprehensive overhaul of our nation’s health insurance industry would be for the new Administration?
There seems to be a lot of crowing from the right wing over Obama’s initial milestone, of having bills drafted prior to the August recess, being missed. Beyond that though I’m not especially troubled by the pace of this particular project; I figured anything worth passing would be worth fighting over.
And HD @ 1.44, what you call a tactical mistake, this Administration calls “learning from Clinton’s errors.” I’m not saying they’re right, it’s just that they had to decide whether it was worth it to risk enduring the same slings and arrows that found their way to “Hillarycare” in 1993 and they figured it wasn’t.
William
September 25th, 2009
2:10 pm
retiredds
September 25th, 2009
1:46 pm
“So, will you and the right wing conservatives stop focusing on what is wrong with health care reform and participate in the process FOR all Americans. It is easy to be obstructionists it is something else to be at the table and formulating solutions (a la, Sen. Olympia Snowe).”
Did you say stop focusing on what is WRONG with it? OMG! Do you think Obama wants a healthcare overhall? Because his special interest friends want it. It is a step to sociallism? It is not about health care! You are a dependent slave on the DNC plantation. Get back to work!
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
2:14 pm
Kyle, you speak about the President’s speeches not doing much to clear up the confusion Americans feel about reform. Is that not somewhat disingenuous considering the right and their corporate sponsors have spent the Summer trying to scare the bejesus out of Americans with a litany of lies and misinformation? It’s hard to imagine Republicans being a serious partner in reform when their playing to the galleries.
dw
September 25th, 2009
2:17 pm
To Hatin’on the stupid @ 2:14pm,
Please change your call-sign to “open-minded on the stupid” because liberals can’t hate. It is a known fact.
Kyle Wingfield
September 25th, 2009
2:18 pm
retiredds: I saw the poll numbers you cited. If all that is true — if Obama is still so personally popular, if Republicans are seen as being less competent and more partisan than him on an issue where the public wants competence and bipartisanship — then doesn’t that say something even worse about the plan Obama has put forward and the job he’s done selling it?
The most egregious misinformation in this whole debate has been the idea, propagated by Obama and the Democrats for obvious political reasons, that there are only two choices: their plan(s), or the status quo. That simply isn’t true — even if the Republicans hadn’t made proposals of their own (and they have), there would be more than those two possibilities. Look, I understand that that’s politics, that you want to put your own idea in the best position possible. But a majority of people aren’t buying that it’s either ObamaCare or the status quo. And to the degree that they *are* buying that, they’d rather have the status quo than a bad reform.
Yes, most people still want reform. They just don’t want the reform they’re being offered. That’s what the Democrats haven’t come to terms with yet. And the longer it takes them to come to terms with it, the more it’s going to cost them politically.
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
2:18 pm
“Most Americans don’t want the govt. involved whatsoever in our health care.”
Linda, or whoever you are writing under that name, that comment is about as silly as the tea-bagging signs saying “Keep the Gov’t out of my Medicare”
Kyle Wingfield
September 25th, 2009
2:20 pm
Hatin’: Even assuming that you’re right, and that everything the right has been saying in the health-care debate has been false, do you really think the right has had more of a platform on this issue than the left?
Tall
September 25th, 2009
2:24 pm
Linda:
The U.S. is already bankrupt. Have you noticed how the dollar has been trading lately?
Linda
September 25th, 2009
2:27 pm
The Dems don’t need a single Rep vote to pass health care in either the House or Senate. If the majority of Dems in DC approved of the bill, they could have passed it in July. Dems are holding up this bill.
Reps will debate & negotiate on many issues but asking a true conservative to vote for the public option (socialized medicine) is like asking a GA fan to root for Tech. Won’t happen.
With the US debt at almost $12 T, unfunded liabilities at over $59 T, the worst economic recession in decades, bailouts at record levels, states broke & the US govt. close to bankruptcy, how do you expect to pay for the $1.9T the CBO says it will cost?
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
2:29 pm
Linda- “our debt is almost $12 Trillion! ”
Yeah. Take a good hard look at where that $12T came from. The vast majority was built up under Republican administrations trying to starve the beast, ie. bankrupt the government so it would have to shed programs that actually help people. Just like their call now for bi-partisanship now that they can no longer steamroll bills through, republicans now demand dems to be fiscially responsible after Bush and his rubber-stamp congress doubled the national debt. Do you remember Clinton handing them a surplus that they immediately turned on its head? Do you remember Cheney saying deficits don’t matter?
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
2:35 pm
“Hatin’: Even assuming that you’re right, and that everything the right has been saying in the health-care debate has been false, do you really think the right has had more of a platform on this issue than the left?”
Kyle, with all due respect, when the most-watched news network (Fox)covers the tea party protests 24-seven, announcing when the next town halls are to meet, and in general, acts as a huge cheerleader for the protests, then, yes, I’d say that’s a pretty good platform. O has only recently attempted to undo the damage with his media blitz which, again, Fox refuses, for the most part, to cover.
dw
September 25th, 2009
2:38 pm
To “Hatin’” – If Bush Admin doubled the national debt to $12T, in your words above, that means it was $6T when Clinton left office and Bush entered office. In your words above you said Clinton handed over a surplus. Most people’s definition of surplus would be “No debt”. So how did Clinton leave a surplus ?
HDB
September 25th, 2009
2:40 pm
Re: Hatin’ @2:29: Thank you for being RIGHT ON POINT!! Republicans don’t want to hear that!!!
Michael H. Smith
September 25th, 2009
2:44 pm
All the more reason not to double or triple the Bush deficit.
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
2:45 pm
Linda -”public option=socialized medicine”
You know that socialized control of healthcare is not what is being proposed. A socialization of health care would be more in line with a single payer system (think Canadian) which has never even been on the table, much to the dismay of many libs. The public option is indeed a compromise, and according to many, a necessary componant to any meaningful reform.
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
2:49 pm
“Most people’s definition of surplus would be “No debt”. So how did Clinton leave a surplus ?”
Aww, dw, you know what I mean, that it was an annual surplus, not an absence of debt. I wish! Believe it or not it would appear that dems and libs, myself included, are fiscal conservatives.
Michael H. Smith
September 25th, 2009
2:56 pm
According to Neo-Conservative founder Irvin Krystal a Neo-Con is a liberal that was mugged by reality. Obviously reality didn’t finish the mugging job on Bush and company.
tejón
September 25th, 2009
2:59 pm
I’m in favor of health care reform which allows doctors to provide care however, to whomever, and on whatever terms they wish. Insurance is the problem in the first place; the bean counters call every shot. Government mandated (or provided) insurance is no remedy.
The problem with the medicine in America is the same problem with every other sector: Federally mandated corporate obligations to maximize profit for shareholders. Altruism is illegal. Remedy the disease and the symptoms will fade. (An ironic metaphor!)
Obama is proposing aspirin for meningitis… because obviously we need to cure that headache, right?
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 25th, 2009
3:06 pm
SFD @ 1:59
You have a valid point but my impression is that the general public is far more likely to be receptive to health care reform now than they were in 1993. We’ve had 15 or so years to watch things get worse. I’m like you in that I see no need to rush things. I’d rather take 5 years and get something that works than a quickly passed bandaid. My thinking is if this goes down like Hillarycare did, it’ll be 15-20 more years before the issue gets tackled again. With outsourcing, temp employment, benefit cutbacks, etc., we have to come up with something besides employer based health insurance. No matter how well anybody plans, we’re all just one job loss/serious injury/ catastrophic illness away from financial ruin. Now is the time and it needs to get fixed.
And for the business owners, think how much better they could compete without health care costs as part of their equation. It might even help us get some jobs back.
Chris Broe
September 25th, 2009
3:08 pm
Every time the born-again birther, Piles Ringfelt, writes with a ballpoint about healthcare, Glenn Beck turns his head and coughs. I’d say Piles Ringfelt has his finger on the pulse of the GOP-spot of the Dominion-Christian and Evangelical Right!
Did anyone read his scholarly and sophisticated take on the Global Warming data yesterday? The irony that this superstitious sot would try to use science to debunk science……especially when he tried to explain the electro-chemical properties of CO2 gas…..it was righteously inbred.
You see, Piles, when you present data, you better get it right, and not just google someone else’s analysis, or else you end up looking like a 23-point criteria match for your pre-existing (thus uncovered by healthcare) medical condition known as Stuck on Stupid.
And as for an RX fix, I think it’s a shame your mother didn’t introduce you to the wonders of castor oil when you were a young shaver.
Jklol
Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 25th, 2009
3:12 pm
Pete CuPont offers his plan on the WSJ website today, and it is a plan all conservatives can support:
First, allow everyone to purchase health insurance across state lines (difficult under current law, as you must buy your insurance in your own state), so that they can get the best possible policies at the best possible prices.
Second, individuals should get the same tax break that companies get when they supply health insurance for their employees. All policy payments should be tax deductible, either to the company or the individual.
Third, health insurance should be portable. Companies should help their employees own their own insurance so that it travels with them from job to job, state to state, and is under their control.
Fourth, Congress should enact tort reform so that doctors can do what is best for their patients instead of practicing costly legal defensive medicine.
And finally, let people purchase insurance that meets their needs, rather than requiring intrusive, one-size-fits-all federal government mandates.
Unlike Obamacare, Mr. DuPont’s plan would not add $1 tril to the damage already done by the wasteful “stimulus.”
dixie clear
September 25th, 2009
3:23 pm
Impeach Nobama!!!
JF McNamara
September 25th, 2009
3:24 pm
For the most part, Americans don’t care either way. Don’t think just because its a hot button for political wonks and listeners of political media that the average American cares. Heck, we’re lucky to have 50% of the populace show up to vote for President, so we know that people by and large or indifferent or recognize that it’ll probably mean very little to their life in the end.
With as much press as the issue and gotten, from both sides, you still have this fact:
“46 percent doesn’t know enough about the president’s reform plans to say whether they support or oppose them.”
This is likely because people are either too over worked, indifferent, or incapable of understanding this complex issue to educate themselves.
Given the facts above, I would just push it through all Democrat. The extremists Republicans aren’t voting for Dems anyway, so forget about them and do what you feel is right for America. If you’re right, then the Republicans will be mortally wounded (dead by 2016). If not, you got two years to fix it or abandon it.
Linda
September 25th, 2009
3:29 pm
Dear Mr. Hatin’, I beg to differ with your opinions. Every president in modern day history has added to the debt, including Clinton. You might be confused with debt & deficits. You might also remember that during the Bush adm., we were involved in 2 wars & the beginning of the worst economic recession in our history. I did not agree with all the bailouts during Bush or Obama. What is most unfortunate is the almost $ TRILLION this current DC bunch spent 3 weeks into the new adm. for what they called the Economic Stimulus bill, the largest single expenditure in the history of our country, which had absolutely nothing to do with the economy or stimulus except to make it worse. No, I don’t remember Cheney saying deficits don’t matter, & if he did, I disagree. During economic downturns when people loose their jobs, retirement savings, health care & homes, it’s inappropriate for our govt. to use borrowed or printed money to go out on a big spending spree to celebrate. You are correct that it’s the job of the govt. to help people, but how it’s done presents the philosophical differences between the 2 major parties, the difference between socialism & capitalism. Dems toss out the fish to the masses & Reps teach everyone how to fish. You decide which one is the plantation mentality & causes some people to be hateful & stupid.
Rusty Shackleford
September 25th, 2009
3:34 pm
Obamacare or Jail!
retiredds
September 25th, 2009
3:38 pm
William, socialism – right wing hogwash
JackLeg
September 25th, 2009
3:39 pm
I say we ruin the healthcare system that 70% likes so the 15% can get their healthcare paid by us. What a stupid idea!!!!! If 85% of Americans get their healthcare from where they work shouldn’t we be concentrating on creating more jobs?
1.) Here are 2 questions for you lefty wing nuts; name 1 thing that the government runs that works properly with out tremendous waste.
2.) Who can spend over 1 trillion dollars and NOT create a single job, in fact lose jobs? Only Obozo and the dimacrats can, by the way the answer to question one is zero….
Ladysable
September 25th, 2009
3:46 pm
“There is no way to reconcile this issue with bipartisanship. Republicans will never vote for a plan with a public option which, in itself, was the pre-emptive compromise. When Republicans clamor for bipartisanship, what it really is is an impromptu filibuster. It’s your easy way of rejecting everything the Democrats are proposing. No, the Democrats have been trying too hard to be bipartisan and it’s exactly why we’re in this gridlock”
Such a stupid statement. Democrats have the majority – were any of the bills anywhere near acceptable they would have already been voted upon and approved. The Republicans aren’t even at the table so to speak – stop passing the blame for the incompetense of Obama and his administration. Has anyone other than an intelligent few stopped to think that perhaps some representatives are finally listening to the people and refuse to sign on to the destruction of the country via the bankrupsy that a public option will provide.
No one in their right mind will say that reform isn’t needed. Only those with no mind or intelligence will stand by for a government takeover.
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
3:47 pm
JackLeg: “Here are 2 questions for you lefty wing nuts; name 1 thing that the government runs that works properly with out tremendous waste”
Tell me then, JL, if the govt is so bad and inefficient at doing things, why are the insurance companies pitching a hissy fit to block a public option? Should be a piece of cake to compete against such an incompetant entity as the govt., No?
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
3:50 pm
“Every president in modern day history has added to the debt, including Clinton. You might be confused with debt & deficits.”
Sweet Linda, I never said no democrats had contributed to the debt. I said that Republicans are responsible for the vast majority of it, and that is a fact.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 25th, 2009
3:53 pm
Dear Hatin @ 2:47, the problem with the public option is that the insurance companies will be obliged to subsidize the inefficiency of the wasteful government program, on a scale much greater than their subsidy of medicare and medicaid now..
Kamau
September 25th, 2009
3:53 pm
It is likely that at least one of the reasons why President Obama’s healthcare reform efforts are encountering so much resistance is because pundits, particularly on the right, have branded it “Obamacare”. And as many (gullible) consumers tend to believe, it’s all in the name!
Exactly what does “Obamacare” mean anyway? Why can it simply be the president’s healthcare proposal, or the GOP’s or the Dems? Why “Obamacare”, “socialism”, “fascism”, etc.? The majority of the people dropping these terms could not even begin to define them without cutting and pasting from Wikipedia. They simply do not fit or make sense in this situation. While I am not a supporter of the particular plan(s) set forth today by the president or either major party, I do support reform in general.
Regardless, there are those who cannot separate their disdain for the man from his laudable efforts to take on something that should have been addresses decaded ago by other leaders. Thus, they are reflexively against anything considered and branded as “Obamacare”, even if it happens to be within their best interests to lend their support to the reform effort. In other words, if one has no insurance or is underinsured AND hates Obama. Then it logically follows that one will REALLY hate “Obamacare”. Can we not elevate the debate beyond childish labelling and name-calling?
Paul N
September 25th, 2009
3:53 pm
The two biggest problem I have with Obama approach:
1) Obama spends too much time demonizing and insulting American’s that want healthcare reform at lowest cost, without a public option . Not everybody that opposes the public option are Republicans, Blue Dogs, paid agents of the insurance industry, ani-American, greedy villians, astro-turf, racist, wealthy, closed-minded, or dumb.
2) When Obama speaks about the problems the healthcare he primarily focuses on health insurance, yet he bundles all cons of both private and public plans and blames on private health insurance companies.
When speaks about health insurance he doesn’t make a distinction between individual health insurance, large employer based insurance, small business group insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, or Medcare Advantage.
Most Medicare beneficiaries or group health insurance employees don’t what rescinding a policy is or that you can be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Private health insurance companies are not the only entities that have waiting periods for preexisting conditions: Medicare has a 12 month waiting period once you qualify afer age 65. And if you become disabled you would be denied Medicare until two years after you’re eligible for Social Security.
We definetly need reform but we need more transparency, less deception, more details, and less demonizing.
Michael H. Smith
September 25th, 2009
3:54 pm
There are two distinct forms of capitalism. Fettered and unfettered. The latter, laissez faire, is the unfettered form and considered “classical liberalism”, or as some say neo-liberalism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 25th, 2009
3:54 pm
Dear hatin @ 3:50, suggest you look over the dem’s performance since they took the house and senate in 2006. I respectfully believe you err.
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
3:55 pm
“What is most unfortunate is the almost $ TRILLION this current DC bunch spent 3 weeks into the new adm. for what they called the Economic Stimulus bill, the largest single expenditure in the history of our country, which had absolutely nothing to do with the economy or stimulus except to make it worse”
Only a small portion of the stimulous has been spent to date, as it was designed to invest in long-term infrastructure projects, etc. Let’s give big O at least a couple of years to see what his team can do. Bush had his 8 and we all know where that left us, so fair’s fair.
Gordon
September 25th, 2009
4:01 pm
In my opinion there are only 2 options that get discussed: doing nothing or signing up for something that adds dozens of new government agencies. What is not discussed is more regulation of private health care. Whenever there is a problem, we must either live with it or turn it over to the government, which makes it worse in the long run.
Here are my specific reasons for opposing Obama’s plan:
1) Whenever the government gets involved in something, it ususally doesn’t seem like a bad idea at first, but then grows and changes into something that was never envisioned and costs many times what it was predicted to cost.
2) The government is broke. Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security have tens of trillions of dollars in unfunded liabilities. When proposed, there was a plan to pay for them like there is with this.
3) Obama is dishonest. He says he cares about reducing health care costs but includes nothing on tort reform (wonder why – could it have anything to do with trial lawyers?), says he wants to make private insurance more effecient but won’t consider letting them compete across state lines, says you will have a choice but sets up a system where it is your to your employer’s advantage to end their coverage and turn everyone over to the government plan, says he wants other ideas but doesn’t even meet with Republicans, etc. How am I supposed to take him seriously?
4) I’m a racist because I don’t support our black president’s policies – at least that what I’ve been told.
Linda
September 25th, 2009
4:01 pm
Mr. Hatin’, The public option is a Trojan Horse, the camel’s nose under the tent. The health care/insurance/reform bill has nothing to do with health, care, insurance or reform. This bunch in just a few short months has nationalized our financial industry, 2 of our 3 domestic auto makers & the largest insurance co. in the world (AIG). Now they want to nationalize our health care industry, the best in the world. If they want to insure the uninsured, just do it. If they want reform, then let them pass reform, even if it takes 300 bills, & the Reps will vote with them. That’s not their goal. They want to CONTROL health care & the masses, not just REGULATE. “They” means the left-wing radical liberal Dems.
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
4:02 pm
Keep believing that Ragnar. Nothing was spent 2006-2008 without Bush’s John Hancock attached.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 25th, 2009
4:06 pm
A couple historical notes:
The only U.S. President who paid off the national debt was Andrew Jackson.
Employer provided insurance dates to WWII. Wage and price controls were in effect at the time so it was a way for an employer to lure away someone else’s employee.
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
4:08 pm
Aww, come on Linda, no one has nationalized anything. They have invested in some financial institutions to keep them from collapsing. The auto companies came begging for help to keep from collapsing. Do you really think Obama’s goal is govt takeover of everything? Do you remember who lobbied for and signed the TARP bill? Yeah, that’s right that socialist Bush.
Michael H. Smith
September 25th, 2009
4:17 pm
Very easy explanation of why people call the “public option”, now a.k.a. ObamaCare, socialism. It is the government ownership and control aspect. The more our government owns and controls anything in our lives and businesses the more socialist we become as a nation and a people with less freedom and liberty to pursue our own destinies in happiness. There has to be a very careful balance drawn between a government the promotes the general welfare of its’ people in assuring individual prosperity, to the government that over-reaches its’ authority in generally providing welfare to achieve a socio-economic equity of individuals through wealth confiscation and redistribution for the good of the state.
business owner
September 25th, 2009
4:21 pm
As a business owner, I enjoy providing healthcare for my employees. And most employers like me like being able to provide care for their employees as a benefit, as a form of payment for ee’s. It can help foster a healthy environment if constructed the right way, and get employees taking proactive steps towards being healthy. I can’t think of any employer that is excited about paying a tax (which is what it will be) for federally mandated healthcare or a minimum benefit. Most Employers would rather have the freedom to offer benefits that fit the culture and workforce of their employees.
I have read the majority of Baucus’s bill, it does nothing to combat healthcare costs. It adds Bureaucracy for the sake of Bureaucracy . Healthcare costs are not high because of insurance companies, hospitals and doctors decide how much gets charged and insurance companies negotiate the fees and act more like a clearing house, or membership, which is why some insurance companies allow you to only go to certain hospitals.
Healthcare reform is important and vital, insurance reform is secondary because it does not address the core issue of cost.
Chris Broe
September 25th, 2009
4:22 pm
How many born-again birther trolls do we have on this blog? All saying the exact same thing the exact same way! Glenn Beck has given birth to a pod of you guys. It’s like when chicks started tatooing their lower backs to be different and a rebel and a freakazoid. But now every chick has that same tatoo and it’s like stupid because it’s represents supreme conformity, (and you can’t even see it if you spend most of your bootie call acting out page 37 of the Karma Sutra).
Same with you BeckHeads on the right. Look, I like 2B entertained as much as the next man. So here’s how you can do better, and sound like individuals: Jot down ideas as the weekend progresses. Don’t write anything down till late sunday, then start fresh off the notes on monday morning. Delete your first draft, and start over. Delete the second draft and start over. Ditto the third, fourth, and fifth draft. Then go stick your pointy little heads in the toilet.
Jklol (Miller Time)
Michael H. Smith
September 25th, 2009
4:27 pm
Small correction to revisionist history.
Actually the employer healthcare system that now exists, which was started during WWII, is to the credit of industrialist Henry J. Kaiser. It was meant to insure the health of his employees and the productive of his company that was heavily involved in supporting the war effort. As a result his employees had less absentees due to illness and we have the business sponsored healthcare of today.
business owner
September 25th, 2009
4:32 pm
Also, as a business owner I review the utilization reports of the health claims of my employees. I see how my employees are using their benefits (all de-identified of course so I can’t see actual peoples names). You know what the number one cost drivers are, and are for most companies across the US?
Obeisity. And it will only grow and grow as Americans become fatter and fatter. Do we really want to pay for gastric bypasses, diabetes medications, heart conditions, cholesterol medications, back problems, etc. for millions of poeple that are too lazy to work out, walk to work, ride a bike, take the stairs, eat a salad, or turn off the tv?
Ragnar Danneskjöld
September 25th, 2009
4:38 pm
Dear hatin @ many, many times, we would agree that Bush was Obama-lite in his courageous stands against congressional excess. And that the Tom Delay republicans were pikers compared to the free-spenders now ruining our country.
Simply the Truth
September 25th, 2009
4:39 pm
Enter your comments here Born again birthers, Beck heads, wow Chris Broe, you really must get out more often. Are those middle school classes getting to you? Hard for you prepubescent nerds to express yourself without exhibiting all of your latent psychotic tendencies,isn’t it?
Linda
September 25th, 2009
4:41 pm
Mr. Hatin’, You wanted to know if the govt. is so bad & inefficient at doing things, why the insurance co’s are pitching a hissy fit to block a public option. Say you owned all the Home Depots & had to make a profit & the govt. bailed out all the Lowe’s & weren’t in the business to make a profit, how long do you think you would stay open? The health insurance companies want to stay open. There is no way for a business to compete with a non-profit.
The economic “stimulus” bill was rushed thru Congress in 3 weeks last Feb., with few pages read, to save the economy & create jobs immediately. Less than 10% of it had been spent until this month. It was a hoax. It was never designed to invest in long-term infrastructure projects. Name one. How many people do you know unemployed & homeless who can wait 2 yrs. for an economic stimulus bill to work? The govt. has NEVER historically been able to stimulate the economy except with tax cuts.
Yes, Bush had his 8 yrs., every one of them trying to reign in Fannie & Freddie, predicting that loans they were mandated to make & bundle during Clinton “unchecked in their growth…pose a real problem.” The crash that happened during his adm. is no more his fault than the attack of 9/11.
business owner
September 25th, 2009
4:45 pm
anybody read about how much those signs are costing us that say, “Your stimulus dollars at work…” for road construction in Georgia, 600,000 dollars of our money. Good to know that we’re stimulating the sign making business….
JF McNamara
September 25th, 2009
4:56 pm
Gordon, in response
1. How about the military, post office, road building, telephone infrastructure, electric grid, railways, etc. The government got involved with all those things and they work pretty well.
2. Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security are unfunded because of people like you who won’t allow anything to change or taxes increases. I remember talking about these problems as a teen in the early 90’s and no politician stepped up to do anything. They became bad programs due to our extremely poor leadership since 1976.
Now, no one wants to step up and do anything about healthcare. 20 years from now, when healthcare is 200% more than we pay today, we’ll have created the same scenario. Just like Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security became larger issues over time, this will too if nothing is done.
3. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t make them dishonest. Health insurers and Doctors want tort reform and it sounds good, but what about victims? Are you going to put a limit on what a victim deserves for every case? I agree on competition. He should open it up to cross state lines, but who wants that? If he opens that up, he loses any support from insurers because he breaks up their oligarchy.
4. If someone actually told you that you’re racist and this is not a bad joke it’s probably not only the President’s policies. You probably do have an internal bias that you don’t know about. Just because you don’t think you’re a racist doesn’t make it true. The opinion of others is probably a more accurate assessment of who you really are. If you’re talking about the Carter comments, you need to educate yourself on what he actually said, not the headlines and TV show.
P.S. If you don’t think the greatest industrial engineering project in history (Post Office) is a success, you need to understand the complexities of running the post office.
David Axelfraud
September 25th, 2009
5:00 pm
The libs in this country are baffled by what has happened over the summer with the backlash against socialized health care. Last November, many libs pronounced that the country had abandoned conservatism and welcomed liberalism.
Fast forward almost a year later and the backlash has handed the libs a potential disaster in 2010.
Bottom line: Democrats are in big big trouble.
Joe Obvious
September 25th, 2009
5:01 pm
The day the post office is seen as a success is the day it is not running in the red.
And really the greatest engineering project in history? Talk about some hyberbole, but you must be a postman.
David Axelfraud
September 25th, 2009
5:03 pm
Kyle Wingfield wrote: Why hasn’t Obama been able to take control of this debate?
Answer: Because he’s an inexperienced community organizer who won his senate seat by having absolutely no one to run against him. Ever.
Obama can’t control this debate because A: He never had a health care bill, and B: he’s too busy promoting himself to the UN.
Joe Obvious
September 25th, 2009
5:07 pm
Also Marta is run like a joke, Amtrak is run like a joke, re-read your history books; private money paid for the railroads, govt took em over.
Electric grid is private see GA Power, same with gas companies Scanna, Atlanta Light and Gas etc.
I’ll give you roads… But paving is not that complicated.
Michael H. Smith
September 25th, 2009
5:10 pm
I’m with you Joe. If the Post Office ever had to compete equally against Fed Ex or UPS without government subsidies it would go out of business. Of course we would also know the true costs of mailing a simple letter then. Nice thing we would have alot less junk mail and alot more e-mail.
Thank God for spam filters.
Hatin'on the stupid
September 25th, 2009
5:20 pm
Ms. Linda: You just keep on believing that your team, obvoiusly the republicans, can and have done no wrong. Don’t you see that tax cuts are the reason we’re in debt 12 trillion. It’s your borrow and spend party, starting with Reagan that shot us up there so quickly. There is such a thing as fiscal responsibility, something republicans only roll out when the democrats are in power. Both parties should practice it, then we wouldn’t be in the shape we’re in.
Linda
September 25th, 2009
5:35 pm
Mr. Hatin’, For some reason, I don’t believe you watch Fox News 24/7 but you should. The tea parties are every few months. The townhalls were only during the recess. Fox is #1 because they’re honest, fair & balanced. I’ve never seen the American people take to the street like they are today. That’s newsworthy. Fox is a cheerleader for the American PEOPLE. Fox covers the pres’s same speech day in & day out.
If the govt. owns it, appoints the BOD, fires the CEO”S, controls mgment’s salary & bonuses & dictates the design of the product, it’s nationalized.
“Some” financial institutions? They’ve invested almost $12T in govt. bailouts to date.
Millions of Americans need help. Why were the auto co’s more worthy & entitled?
I was against all bailouts, except maybe the banks. I don’t think it’s fair to bail out one segment of our manufacturing (cars) & not the others, or fair to bail out 2 auto makers & not help the others.
As far as I know, not one dime of the Toxic Assets Recovery Program (TARP) funds has been used to buy a single toxic asset. It was another govt. hoax. Bush was wrong to approve it.
I don’t know what the goals of this adm. & congress are. I just know what they’ve done & said. Maybe you should ask Joe the Plumber.
Algonquin J. Calhoun
September 25th, 2009
5:56 pm
There won’t be a bipartisan healthcare plan for the American people but it’s not the fault of President Obama. The Republicans are deep in the pocket of the insurance and healthcare industries! Addison Graves Wilson, Sr., who tries to pass for a regular Joe, is a great example of the duplicitous nature of Republicans. Wilson accused President Obama of lying to the American people about provisions in the healthcare bill and then, immediately after, made a video in which he asked for contributions. The truth is that Addison rehearsed the “you lie” bit and did it for a couple of reasons. One is that Addison is owned by the industries that have robbed Americans for so long. In fact, over his entire congressional career, health professionals represent Wilson’s top industry contributors, donating a total of $244,196 to his campaign, according to the Center for Responsive Politics OpenSecrets.org database. He received another $86,150 from pharmaceutical companies, $73,050 from insurance companies and $68,000 from hospitals and nursing homes.
Among Wilson’s top contributors are the American Hospital Association, a lobby group that represents the interests of hospitals and health networks, and the American Medical Association, which represents physicians.
Another reason he did it was to remind and reawaken his fellow racists to the fact that President Obama is black. Addison has a history of racism! In the year 2000, while a member of the South Carolina Senate, Wilson voted against taking down the Confederate battle flag that flew over the South Carolina statehouse. Wilson was one of seven neanderthals to oppose that idea. His side was outnumbered 36 to 7 and that hideous rag was taken down. The reluctance to remove this symbol of slavery is understandable since he is a member of Sons of Confederate Veterans.
In 2003 Essie Mae Washington-Williams announced she was the daughter of Senator Strom Thurmond and his black maid. Wilson publicly expressed doubts about her veracity. When it was proved to be true, he opined that she should not have made that information public. He said he believed that information demeaned Thurmond’s legacy.
Joe Wilson is a racist and is controlled by industries fighting healthcare reform. If he says anything to the contrary, well, he lies!
Linda
September 25th, 2009
6:06 pm
Mr. Hatin’, For your information, I was raised a Dem, married a Rep, was a Rep & am now an independent. I have always been conservative. Years ago, there wasn’t as much difference between Dems & Reps as there are today. The current extreme radical liberal left wing of the Dem party scares me to death. All parties screw up. The one thing they all have in common is they are all POLITICIANS. If tax cuts cause debt, why are all the states with the highest taxes the ones with the worst deficits? Why is the pres. promising that 95% of Americans won’t see a dime in higher taxes & giving a few tax cuts? Historically, tax cuts during economic downturns have sparked growth. Govt. spending has never helped. Taxes are only half of the equation. It’s not the income of the fed govt. that’s the problem. It’s the wasteful spending. The role of the fed. govt. should be cut in half, rather than expanding into health care.
Linda
September 25th, 2009
6:30 pm
Mr. Calhoun, All the Dems & Reps in DC are in the pockets of lobbyists & special interests. They’re all politicians. Why don’t you research each one of them & see where they get their campaign contributions? It’s sickening.
Industries don’t rob Americans. We’re a capitalist country, or at least we were. If businesses didn’t make profits, we wouldn’t have jobs, health insurance, homes, cars or food. You’re free to patronize any business you want.
Racism in America is so passe. Give us another generation & it’ll be totally over. The only racists left are a few old black men that like to get on the news every now & then. Racism has absolutely nothing to do with this health bill.
Obama isn’t black. He’s black & white, raised by white grandparents. Whites have just as much claim on him as blacks. Isn’t that cool?
Finally, nobody cares about flags. They’ve all been gone for years. Just let it go.
May God bless you.
David Axelfraud
September 25th, 2009
6:48 pm
Ms. Hatin’on the stupid, the reason FOX doesn’t show Obamalamadingdong is because the guy is boring and can not give a coherent speech anymore. The guy is on tv more than Saddam Hussein, his long lost brother, was in the 90s. NBC did a poll of most trusted news in the country. FOX came in first place WAAAAAAAAAAAY ahead of everyone else. NBC finished dead last with 7% of those polled. People watch FOX because you get honest news and both sides unlike every other news source out there. People are sick of media bias and they are sick of dim witted idiots like Kieth Olberman, Rachel Maddow and the rest of the crybaby libs.
David Axelfraud
September 25th, 2009
6:52 pm
Kyle, also, Cynthia Tucker has a piece about how we need to shut Gitmo down. She’s so smart that she even used YES WE CAN to show her loyalty to Obama Hussein.
Now, we just had FIVE terrorist arrests in the past 3 months with a big one being jailed yesterday. Where are we going to put these people?
OHHHHHHHH, maybe we can put them in the Fulton County Prison…..no, wait, OHHHHHH, I remember now, a rap video was shot there an several inmates walked out the door.
Wake up liberals! If America is bombed under Obama Husseins watch, he is done. Its over for him. And I damn well guarantee you all that if that happens, we will NEVER see another democrat president for yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears!
Flooring Guy
September 25th, 2009
7:53 pm
Kyle,
I work with your father and it’s good to know his common sense has been passed on. It’s a pleasure to read your perspective. Keep up the good work.
Ben
September 25th, 2009
8:15 pm
I want health care reform badly!
I want Congress to stop allowing states to block citizens from buying insurance offered in other states. By doing this, the states are restricting the free flow of goods and services, thus falling under Congress’ mandate according to the Interstate Commerce Clause. Once that happens we can pick and choose from a lot more options. I won’t be forced to pay insurance for things I don’t want to pay for. All I want is catastrophic coverage. I’m fine with paying for yearly visits to the doctor out of pocket, I’m fine with paying out of pocket when I get an ear infection. And I’m fine with paying for insurance for when I get something worse.
Make that one change, and the free market will work its magic, and very soon we’ll all look back and wonder why we ever thought MORE government was the answer.
I am of the majority that wants reform. But reform is defined as “Whatever Obama wants.” Reform is change, and I don’t want Obama’s change. I want change that makes logical sense, and fits within the laws embedded in our Constitution. So Democrats, stop using my answering YES to wanting reform as an excuse to shove your BS on me. And Republicans, push good free market solutions more, push so much that you cannot be ignored anymore, get your ideas out there so much that no one can call you the party of NO, because you aren’t. Not only do you have good ideas that will help ALL Americans, but your ideas are better and more logical than Obama’s.
Linda
September 25th, 2009
9:03 pm
Good night enlightened bloggers. May God bless you all.
Miri
September 26th, 2009
12:55 am
After stating that the present system is broken, Obama’s solution is to force all of us into it.
Forget “yes we can.” Just say no!
The proposed fines are less than 2 months worth of premiums.
BG
September 26th, 2009
1:55 am
My 2 cents.
I get the feeling Republicans are not pushing their solutions visibly because they do not want to be in the line of fire. Their ideas will be scrutinized and their opponents will get the ammo to fire back. Right now they are content with trying to put a negative spin on everything Obama has to say to make him look as bad as possible, which would energize them for 2010. Bipartisanship is a joke. Both parties pretend because it will make them look better to independent voters!! Dems want their agenda passed no matter what, and Republicans will say no no matter what. It’s all politics.
As of right now, I prefer current solution over no solution and I’d rather risk government then get screwed by money-grubbing CEOs and their stockholders. It’s a pick your poison. While I can afford a health plan, with premiums rising 4X my salary for this year, I’d say no solution = we’re screwed while some solution solution = gamble with chance to survive. Don’t blame me for somewhat supporting it. Nobody is bring up better ideas, as least visibly.
Fox is definitely not unbiased. As someone who reads news from all major sources, my opinion is that Fox is probably one of the most biased news outlets. However, given that most news sources are liberal, they end up balancing each other out. They are #1 probably because there are fewer conservative channels but lots of conservatives.
Also, I wish that words such as Socialist, Facist, Racist, Hussein, Death Panels would be taken out of this debate. They do nothing to help.
Have a nice day!
Michael H. Smith
September 26th, 2009
6:41 am
Wish that if something waddles, quacks and swims no one should call it a darn duck?
Thank you all the same but reality demands honesty if there is to be debate.
small_d_democrat
September 26th, 2009
10:27 am
Enter your comments here The problem with the debate is that the “reform” is always discussed as a movment to further regulation, mandated coverage, government oversight and frankly what is called insurance reform or health care reform is actually neither. There are other reforms that the GOP does favor but they are characterized as saying no. Think of the current regulation of health care as a line with median being 5 and more regulation 10 and less regulation 0. the current status is 7 all of the discussion is to move the number closer to 10 which the GOP says no. Moving it to 5 is still reform but it is not characterized as such.
The issue is affordable health care – not just whether its covered. Affordability is driven by use, pricing options and incentives to order/take procedures and drugs.
Right now we have a low deductible, non transparent system with few if any options. That drives use. We have had an increase in population of 50% is 30 years and no increase in the number of medical schools. That drives increased demand and no supply. The curent regulatory system mandates polices and coverages that increase cost reducing affordability. Government pricing shifts costs to the private insured and the uninsured (rich). Tax policy eliminates potability and creates the pre existing condition conundrum. Reforming these problems could and likely would save billions but none of them are on the table.
One can rcognize that the system could be reformed without needing more governement inrusion. I am not a free market capitalist but I do know that the system as curently run is not consumer friendly and will not rduce cost inefficiencies. However, the “fixes” in my mond will exacerbate the problem.
James
September 26th, 2009
11:16 am
Fedex and UPS aren’t charged with the mission of delivering mail to every American every day. The U.S. Post office has to perform that task whether you’re in Atlanta or deep in the outskirts of Alaska. Do you know the logistics involved in setting up these routes? Do you know the manpower restraints they have to manage? Have you ever thought about the complex mail sorter they’ve developed? It’s not hyperbole. Establishing the current mail system was a lot more complex that building the empire state building, but people don’t understand the complexity since they think of it as just delivering packages to homes.
Also, the taxpayer does not subsidize the USPS. You just don’t know what you’re talking about and are parroting radio hosts.
You’re right. Private companies built the railways. They just got the land and money from the government. I guess I do need to read the history…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Railway_Act
Yeah, the government has nothing to do with electricity. I’ve never heard of the TVA. How about?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority#Nuclear_power_plants
http://www.nalc.org/postal/perform/selfsufficient.html#subsidize
Post 1 « Who Cares?
September 26th, 2009
4:14 pm
[...] Here’s two articles from those against it: http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2009/09/25/obama-and-health-care-why-americans-arent-buying-his-... [...]
DanBronxNY
September 26th, 2009
6:08 pm
Some posters here are under the misperception that the opposition to ‘Public Option’ is strictly a Republican endeavor. Wrong.
I’m an Independent who voted for Obama with the hopes he would demonstrate the Fiscal Wisdom that was absent in the previous administration. Sound economic policies that would pull us out the recession and return us to prosperity. Between the costly Wall St. bailouts and misuse of TARP money, Obama has YET to prove he was worthy of my vote.
To those of you who are clamoring for ‘Public Option’, you have been manipulated by the Administration and the liberal media to believe that a debt-addicted government is qualified to lower cost and extend access through another wasteful bureaucracy. The facts DO NOT support this. Nor is this inconvenient truth a product of right wing loons and political opportunist.
How do you explain the FACT that government reimbursement programs like Medicare Part B and Social Security WILL be exhausted by 2017 and 2039 respectively? What is the basis of your trust in Public Option when the government has FAILED to lower cost and improve quality of care through Medicare Part B?
Actually, do any of you even know what Medicare and Medicaid is and how it works? These existing programs are, in effect, a type of Public Option where the government pays the hospitals, specialty vendors, doctors and pharma companies DIRECTLY…much like an HMO.
The difference is, unlike market HMOs, the government has shown neither the impetus nor expertise to negotiate the best price, spot fraudulent claims or guarantee quality of care because it’s TAXPAYER subsidized.
And we still persist with this PREPOSTEROUS idea that the government can do better with ANOTHER bureaucracy?! How can this Administration and Congress point a SANCTIMONIOUS finger at the health industry when the government is guilty of the same greed, waste and corruption?
It’s like the wolf trying to convince the shepherd that it can do a better job of protecting the herd than the sheep dog.
Tink
September 26th, 2009
11:24 pm
Linda you think racism is passe? Really? I wish I could live in such a rose colored world. As for the health reform, If I can be promised that my current insurance won’t change and that my taxes won’t go up then I am all for it. Of course, that promise can’t be made. I would rather the President look into why my insurance goes up every year. How about keeping insurance affordable for the tax paying workers. Then maybe if there is enough money left over look after people who don’t work at all. Everyone is dancing around the elephant in the room but I will type it: No one wants to take care of folks who don’t work. Makes no sense to take care of the very people who are not providing any income. There is no way you can provide healthcare to everyone without raising taxes. This is not a race thing. As a black woman I beleive there are too many people both black and white that need to get off their fannys and work. If you don’t then you don’t get healthcare. Simple as that. Stop feeling like you are entitled to everything.
Joe Obvious
September 28th, 2009
12:03 pm
TVA much like the other govt run industries is constantly unprofitable, poorly run, and terribly mismanged. I used to work there moron and have many friends that still do.
When a guy can retire at age 45, with full retirement benefits, pension, healthcare, etc. and get re-hired to do his same job as a contractor but make nearly twice as much you have a terribly run company on your hands. Also many people at TVA do absolutely nothing all day long. A friend of mine quit because he frankly surfed the internet 8 hours a day 5 days a week. When he told his boss he was quitting his boss said, “What if we give you a raise???”