Democrats are the ideologues on health care

I have a big problem with HR 3400 as proposed by Rep. Tom Price.

SEC. 221. EXPANSION OF ACCESS AND CHOICE THROUGH INDIVIDUAL MEMBERSHIP ASSOCIATIONS (IMAS).

`SEC. 3101. DEFINITION OF INDIVIDUAL MEMBERSHIP ASSOCIATION (IMA).

`(a) In General- For purposes of this title, the terms `individual membership association’ and `IMA’ mean a legal entity that meets the following requirements:

`(1) ORGANIZATION- The IMA is an organization operated under the direction of an association (as defined in section 3104(1)).

SEC. 3104. DEFINITIONS.

`For purposes of this title:
`(1) ASSOCIATION- The term `association’ means, with respect to health insurance coverage offered in a State, an association which–

`(A) has been actively in existence for at least 5 years;

This is far to constraining and restrictive to make insurance portable from job to job — or to joblessness, as the case may be, Kyle. The only way portability can be guaranteed is if the “individual” not business or government or only the existing non-consumer owned, ran and administered cooperatives within a state controls healthcare.

No way will I support HR 3400 in its current form without the inclusion of and the expansion of the ability to establish or create new mutual insuring consumer owned, ran and administered healthcare cooperatives within any state.

My suggestion Rep. Price is get out of bed with business and the corporations sir, it is what many conservatives hate about Republicans and the Republican Party presently – yours truly included. This country was not meant to serve government, business, corporations or political opportunists. It was meant and should return in sole meaning to serving entirely the utmost liberty of the “individual U.S. citizen”.

I will remain hopeful of what the gang of six in the Senate can produce in the way of mutual insuring consumer owned, ran and administered healthcare cooperatives without any hidden Public single payer Option Trojan Horse attached under the assigned the name of “Trigger”.

No government owned healthcare, no business owned healthcare. Every individual citizen of this country should own and control their healthcare entirely.

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Ah, yes. More of the same when it comes to for-profit healthcare insurance.
Giving Tax Credits once a year is supposed to magically pay 12 premiums a year? The sick, the poor and the unemployed must make these tax savings (or refund) last all that time, in the face of continued unemployment, disability, or poverty? This solution lacks the month-to-month solution these people will need…saving them money in April will not do them any good in October when they are still in dire straits. Even if the Tax Credit took the form of a refund, again the problem remains…a once-a-year stipend will not last. Disability is a year-round problem, not one that comes and goes every April.
The core of your “solution” seems to be the typical Republican “free-market forces” argument, stating that additional competition between existing insurance companies will force them to be more responsive and responsible. And yet, this is the same form of competition that has led to 40,000,000+ uninsured, and a United Healthcare CEO who makes $102,000 per hour.
A public option is the only true way to get behind the wall of crazy money and heartlessness that now rules the system. I fail to see how merely adding to the number of customers available to insurance companies will have any effect on their practices. Adding a public option will result in TRUE competition for those companies, who then really would have to re-think their profit-versus-treatment attitudes. Maybe then, breast-cancer patients would not be denied coverage for not informing the insurance company that they went to a dermatologist 18 years ago for acne treatments. Maybe then, children who need special bone-shaping helmets would not have treatment denied on the grounds that the helmet is “cosmetic in nature” (again, United Healthcare).
AND WHERE IS THE ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THE VARIOUS SHILLS OF THEIR ILK HAVE BEEN MISLEADING THE PUBLIC WITH “DEATH PANELS” AND EUTHANASIA FOR THE ELDERLY AND “RATIONING” AND FORCED ENROLLMENT, AND THE REST OF THE LIES?
No, not a word about the dis-information campaign that has led to violent town-hall meetings, armed citizens in the streets talking about “killing tyrants”, the politics of US VERSUS THEM which pits citizens against each other, the” SOCIALIST” or” NAZI” rantings of the misled, the fearful, the ignorant, and the selfish or the fact that insurance companies are willing to spend millions of dollars to fight reform every step of the way.
No, not a word about the Republican “Party of NO” who offer the same worn-out tax-credit idea which will change nothing; not a word about their political agenda of “Obama must fail at all costs”; not a word about the corruption inherent in insurance-company donations to politicians; not a word about how the U.S. is ranked #37 in world healthcare despite spending more than anyone else; not a word about how we pay the world’s highest prices for prescription drugs available for a fraction of our cost, overseas. Not a word about how George Bush forbad the government from negotiating the cost of medicines for Medicare and Medicaid. Not a word about people like John McCain claiming that our healthcare system is “the best in the world” and in no need of fixing (although it is true that McCain’s healthcare DOES NOT need fixing).
Instead, you again use the Republican tactic of crying “WE ARE VICTIMS” while ignoring the facts; the Republicans had 12 years to do something about healthcare, and what they chose to do was to enrich the rich, allow the poor to suffer and die, accept millions in donations from insurance companies, and let the system become what it is today.
I’m sorry to say (but not sorry for you), but the meager sops you present as a panacea are just more of the same corrupt, selfish, free-market-faith heartlessness that has landed our country in this mess in the first place.

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Kyle,
I’m happy to see that you are no longer citing the Lewin Group in your opposition to Health Insurance Reform. You did that last time you came out against any kind of single payer system. BTW, the Lewin Group, as I’m sure you already know, is owned by United Health, a health insurance company.

That said, tax credits are a sham because how do you expect people who are living in poverty or are unemployed to pay with tax credits for an extended period of time? A for profit health insurance system, implies that the system has to be profitable. That profit is always at the expense of the consumer to the benefit of shareholders. In this case, the consumer is the insured who gets stuck with high premiums, denied care for “pre-existing” conditions, and having rates raised arbitrarily. That’s how it works if you are self insured. Self insurance health policies are a cash cow for insurance companies. I know because I deal with them all the time. I’m, among other things, insurance licensed which includes a health insurance license.

In fact, we spend almost $7,000 per capita already on Health Care in this country with minimal return. That’s more than any other industrialized nation. Twice more than France, the UK, Germany or Canada. Where’s all that extra money going? We excel in emergency care but fail miserably at preventive care. About 20,000 people die in this country annually for lack of health care insurance and over 60% of personal bankruptcies are related to medical costs. Of those folks, 70% have some kind of health insurance but fall through the cracks devised by these companies.

We need to have far tougher regulations on health care insurance. There should be mandates which allow pre-existing conditions and subsidies and cost caps for those who cannot afford to pay for health insurance. There should be a government option that pays a bare minimum coverage but allows pre-existing conditions and which requires people below a certain level of income to enroll in it. Once you cross to a higher income level, you can leave and go to a private insurance company which can provide more bells and whistles (value added policies). You call this socialized medicine but there is nothing socialized about it. Germany, which requires universal coverage and has a government option, has over 200 private health insurance companies which are thriving and profitable. I’m very familiar with that system because I have lived there and have family over there.

BTW, SF perspective is correct. If you are so against a single payer option of any kind,under any circumstances, then tell your Republican friends in politics to come out and call for the abolishing of Medicare because that’s exactly what Medicare is. You cannot oppose any kind of public option on one hand yet mouth servile platitudes about keeping Medicare. That’s a double standard by any standard.

We need an educated debate on options, without the lies and misinformation. Calling something “socialized” medicine or that someone’s encouraging anyone to kill grandma doesn’t help in finding solutions. This plays into the hands of health insurance companies who would rather have no reforms at all. In fact, they’ve enlisted 50,000 of their employees to actively campaign against it.

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The government is responsible for protecting its citizens. Over 15,000 US citizens die each year because they cannot afford care. That’s five times the number of people who died on 9/11. The GOP wants people to suffer and die.

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At least on this blog there is some intelligent conversation about the real issue…well, except for Tom at 7:16.

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Brit, good post. My concern about H.R. 3200 is that is makes it very difficult for private insurance to survive. Private insurers cannot compete with a government plan that does not have to be fiscally responsible. They have been set up to fail. You call this plan something to the right of what is in New Zealand? Medicare and Medicaid, in their current form, are not sustainable. I don’t take Obama seriously on this issue because he simply is not being forthcoming with what it is going to cost, and includes absolutely nothing on tort reform. If he would get serious, maybe more people would get serious about him. The two choices don’t have to be do nothing, or swallow the crap sandwich that is H.R. 3200.

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We need an educated debate on options, without the lies and misinformation.

Didn’t someone already point out the pot and kettle? Thanks for that advanced notice.

That’s how it works if you are self insured.Self insurance health policies are a cash cow for insurance companies.

Really now, it doesn’t work that way for mutual insuring non-profit consumer owned, ran and administered healthcare cooperatives.

Amazing how the self-proclaimed so-called educated debaters NEVER talk about the greedy pharmaceutical industry which are far more profitable than the insurance industry. Funny, they NEVER talk about the greedy trial lawyers. Hilarious is their FAILURE to mention medical device manufactures ranking in the big bucks.

Not so amazing, funny or hilarious is how the self-proclaimed so-called educated debaters NEVER acknowledge the trillions of dollars in unfunded liabilities that the present SOCIALIST BIG GOVERNMENT healthcare programs face?

NEVER a mention of doctors refusing to take on Medicaid patients because these doctors receive less than their full fee?

But when Medicaid patients seek care, they often find themselves locked out of the medical system. In a 2006 report from the Center for Studying Health System Change, a nonprofit research group based in Washington, nearly half of all doctors polled said they had stopped accepting or limited the number of new Medicaid patients.

That’s because many Medicaid programs, straining under surging costs, are balancing their budgets by freezing or reducing payments to doctors. That in turn is driving many doctors, particularly specialists, out of the program.

And these self-proclaimed so-called educated debaters have the gall to suggest yet another SOCIALIST BIG GOVERNMENT healthcare program?

To all those who glory in how great other countries are doing on healthcare you have your PUBLIC OPTION already, all you need do is start moving the two good ones, left and right, you have standing on the ground to reach your grand SOCIALIST’S utopia.

The Swiss have undoubtedly a very good but SOCIALIZED healthcare system (probably the best in Europe) including private insurers but they all pay more than a few dollars with income taxes as high as 50%.

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I’m always amused to hear liberals like ‘San Francisco’ who decry ‘The Profit Motive’ in healthcare inusrance as an incentive for companies to deny coverage. Let me get this right – the incentive to make MORE money from additional customers means an insurance company is bound to provide poor service to it’s current customers.

Got that.

So, companies like The Coca-Cola Company and Pepsi have an incentive to fill only every can of soda they manufacture only half-full since their SOLE incentive is to cut costs. Right?

Wrong.

Both companies would love to have ‘San Francisco’s’ management skills if they want to drive their stock price into the gutter. Likewise, a health insurance company would only want to arbitrarily pay out a claim on every other client in order to attract throngs of new, premium-paying customers. Right? Hardly.

Life insurance and Property & Casualty insurance companies have operated profitably for centuries because they provide high quality AND low cost insurance. Insurance against low probability, highly expensive events. There is no reason why health insurance companies can’t do the same for Americans but we must get away from health insurance covering common health insurance events like broken bones, cuts and even minor surgeries. Let health savings accounts take care of that area.

We can find market-based solutions to healthcare but, like our auto, home and other insurance, we must choose the low probability, high cost events that we want to cover and then PAY for our own costs to cover everyday health issues. Let’s hope our legislators see this as the sustainable solution.

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Billy Bob,

So you think profiting from selling Coca Cola is the same thing as profiting from people purchasing health insurance that will keep them and their families alive? This is the type of immoral thinking that typifies the right.

Michael,

Unfortunately, our country is filled with Neanderthals like yourself who don’t understand the difference between communism and socialism and probably couldn’t define either without looking them up on Wikipedia.

You decry government bureaucrats without realizing that the bureaucrats who run the VA and Medicare make tens of thousands of dollars, not tens of millions like the executives at health insurance companies, which is exactly why the VA and Medicare can deliver superior care at much lower costs. The VA system is the most cost effective and highest quality system in the world and would only benefit and become more efficient if more people could buy into it, which is precisely what veterans advocate- expanding the VA system to allow coverage for extended families. This larger pool of customers would lower overall costs and more money could be directed to actual treatment and prevention, which would lower costs even further. There is no reason this program could not be expanded to the general public, which would only magnify all of these benefits.

But reasoning with you is a fruitless endeavor because you’re wrapped up in catch phrases like ’socialism’ (so scary). You might want to take a few history classes before you begin pointing to the economic collapse of the USSR as having any parallel with our heath care reform (and you may want to take some English courses to learn how to conjugate verbs and form contractions).

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Yes, the problems are simple:

1- We can’t afford NOT to reform health care. The tremendous costs of health care and the poor return on that investment are crippling the nation’s economy and have contributed to the recession. By eliminating the trillions of unnecessary dollars that go to the middle man (health insurers and their administrative fees, huge salaries, bonuses, etc.), citizens of this country will save vast amounts of money which can then be spent to stimulate other aspects of the economy.

2- More than 70% of people support health care reform, and a solid majority favor a public option (while most of the rest are not well educated enough to make a sound decision- see Michael and Billy Bob above).

3- No civilized nation in the modern world should go without universal health care. The wealthiest nation in the world should be able to provide access to health care for all its citizens, just like other less wealthy (but better educated and more civilized) nations already do.

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One Voice for WORLD LEADER. It knows everything. It’s highly intellectual. It speaks for all of us because it knows more than any of us. It’s a moral imperative that One Voice make all of our personal choices for us. And correct our homework.

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I didn’t think so.

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One Voice,

1-…..Can’t afford not to is wearing a little thin. And trillions of dollars going to Insurance companies? Think this number is a teeny bit high. Also, I have no problem with Obama taking the $500 billion in waste out of medicare and medicaid right now. This would go a long way toward controling costs.

2-…..Vast majority prefer a public option. I don’t think so.

3- I did not say there should not be access for everyone. I said this was one of the problems which need to be fixed. You don’t have to reform a whole system to fix a problem.

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Billy Bob, the incentive is not necessarily “more” customers, it is “better” customers. This is why Americans with pre-existing conditions are often left without insurance. Further, because the market is so consolidated and the bargaining power between the parties is so lopsided, companies can and do profit from denying a variety of services.

And to the free-market advocates here, you should all be advocating for a single-payer system. An employment-based private health care system is really quite bad for business. A single-payer system would free workers to take new jobs, go back to school, and start new businesses without worrying about their health care disappearing. There is a reason why no other industrialized democracy is rushing to create an American-style health system……………

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Ideologues? Yeah, I hope so. We need SOMEONE who will think of what SHOULD be–what health care should look like–and then find ways to make it a reality. Better an ideologue than a demagogue!

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I think any good Republican should be asking “What would Jesus do?”

Any good Republican knows Jesus would be appalled by the liberal “health care for all!” garbage. Heck if Jesus were to come back now He’d make a killing. Since obviously Jesus would represent Republican family values, I’m sure Jesus would want to get in on the action. I say of course Jesus is a Republican. Duh.

Forget the free miracle bs. More like free market. I’d say Jesus would end up pretty damn rich. Think of the pay days He could bring in.

Jesus’ “Christian Angels Saving Humans,” or CASH for short, would be a hit on the stock market.

CASH price guide:

Return sight to blind…$100,000.00
Return legs to cripple….$100,000.00
Wedding wine service…$10,000.00
Fish for a 1000….$10,000.00

And of course the Main Course….

Bringing the dead back to life….$12,000,000.00

Gotta love them values. Family values that is.

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It is God’s will that we deny healthcare to immigrants, he only truly loves white southerners. Don’t let Obama indoctrinate your offspring with the word of the devil.

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One Voice

September 5th, 2009
10:11 am

I really like the personal attack, it so reveals the inner two year old within you.

1 – You idiot, government is the ultimate worst MIDDLE MAN imaginable.

2- Knucklehead, the vast majority do not prefer the public option and that same vast majority knows what it dislikes about the inherent problems of healthcare, which is…

3- Lamo, systemic and that means reforming the health insurance industry alone will not correct what is wrong or begin to address all the other parts involved in the healthcare industry that drive-up the cost that has priced healthcare out of reach the average U.S. Citizen.

Now junior, if you have something intelligent to say I’m waiting. – Tough I’ll admit it’s just a poor use of my time. Otherwise, if your intention is to get into a slap down match-up you silly little egotistical humanoid, be forewarned pantie-waste that you are dealing with a crusty old ’struction guy that can make a salty old sailor’s mama cry.

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70% want univeral healthcare? Who are you asking? I have insurance. If the government option comes available what would keep my job from dumping me off on it? It certaintly would be cheaper for them.

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Tax credits? Amazes me when the republicans (many of which now falsely call themselves Libertarians in these post Bush-Era days) keep going to their same failed policies. Please let me know when the Bush tax breaks are going to kick in. Been years now.

8 long years on power, 6 with total control. Please present to me the health care plan that the republicans presented during that time. You won’t find any. Though what you WILl find is that we added millions more to the uninsured ranks, as well as premiums that have doubled. Add to that the profit margins that increased for the insurance companies during that time. Did they “trickle down” their massive profits and cut rates? Nope, they “rationed” even more to become MORE profitable.

Please do sleak more about

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By definitiion, Something is not health insurance if the identical premium is paid by all and those with pre-existing conditions must be accepted for coverage at the same personal cost. Then, when one is unable to pay for the insurance, for whatever reason except not desiring to pay someone else’s bills, taxpayers foot the bill. Yes, this is financing health care but it is not health insurance. This does tno even consider coverage, deductables, etc..

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Michelle Smith @ 10:29

Thank you. That post served to substantiate my assertion that you’re an uneducated Neanderthal. You proved that point much better than I could have.

So you go from using silly catch phrases like socialism (which you think will somehow shock and scare people) to complaining about the government being a middle man. You may want to try to include some substance instead of repeating every cliche you’ve heard from the other uneducated hicks on your construction site. There’s a reason you get paid to stand around with a shovel- your intellect is not advanced enough for someone to pay you for using your mind. And please don’t scare me with the threat of cursing at me over the internet (snicker).

I already explained at 10:11 why the VA and Medicare work and why that model would work on a larger scale. You have done nothing to rebut that assertion. The majority of the country, the 53% who voted for Obama, support a public option. Just because elderly high school dropouts like yourself have been disrupting town hall meetings does not mean you are not in a small minority. If three people yell really loudly it doesn’t magically transform them into 30 million people. It’s still just three people yelling loudly.

Finally, reform will indeed fix problems. That is kind of the definition of reform, not to mention its very purpose. But I wouldn’t expect a construction worker to be able to process the intricacies of the issue. Stick to standing around watching someone else hammering nails. And if you would like to make a point, however daft, you might want to learn to write complete sentences. That’s why you shouldn’t have dropped out of 8th grade.

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I don’t know where to start with your diatribe

Then why did you begin Gordon?

You are simply full of misinformed hate.

According to you Gordon.

There is always people on both sides who offer opinions, and reasonable people can disagree.

Never said or even thought anything differently Gordon. However, if insults are considered fair game, then I can’t play in that ballpark too?

Then there are people like you who simply take up space on a blog.

Then again there are people like you Gordon that make claims that other people’s opinions simply take up space on a blog. Make use of what occupies the space between your ears Gordon and do delight me with posting your diatribe or “thoughtful reasonable opinion” as you might choose to call it on what you see as my left-wing talking points?

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Michelle Smith @ 10:23,

You’re really not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you? (Although you are most certainly a tool.) You didn’t realize that Gordon @ 10:01 was not addressing you, but missed that I was addressing you at 9:56. And you attacked Gordon, who is actually a right wingnut like yourself. Very funny.

You are a perfect example of why the Founding Fathers created a republic and not a democracy (I bet that’s news to you). The ignorant masses would run this country into the ground (see the last 8 years).

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The government should assure that all citizens have access to high quality health care to support good health status. The government should not be a health care provider.

How is it ideological to offer a public health care plan as a choice for coverage?

How is it that health status and well being are considered more preferably as corporate commodities, rather than an individual right?

How much is your life worth to your health insurer with the singular goal of profit maximization?

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I want a President that wakes up everyday and asks himself two questions: How can I keep America safe (yes, we’re still in a war)? and What can I do to help the economy (hello, we’re in a recession!)? Unfortunately our President is obsessed with this health care mess instead. He’s been a real disappointment so far.

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Swing Vote

September 6th, 2009
12:13 pm

I agree with you and your priorities.

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As in football, pre-season where the starters play relatively little, bears little resemblance to the outcome of the season. And the Birther-Bircher’s-Nine Finger Bill’s (don’t stick your Repubozo finger in someone’s mouth without obtaining prior consent is apparently not something little Repubozos are taught) bear no resemblance to a football coach trying out his roster.

The new kid, Kyle Wingfield has killed a lot of trees lately to write non-sensical column after column with the Repubozos’ favorite MO–they don’t read and research ANYTHING to back up their wild, fraudulent, delusional, and crazy claims that are pure fiction.

Wingfield writes here:

Most important is that Americans seem repulsed by the idea that this issue will be settled on ideological grounds. People consider health care far too personal a matter to be subject to someone else’s political philosophy…Democrats can talk about Republican “intransigence” all they want. But Democrats have all the votes they need for health reform if they can convince the public — not to mention all of their own members — that a government-run “public option” for health insurance is about pragmatism, not ideology.

So far, they haven’t done that any more than Bush-era Republicans convinced the public that their goal of privatizing Social Security wasn’t merely ideological.
.

“Americans Seem Repulsed by the idea…and Democrats haven’t convinced the public” says Wingfield:

Let’s look at the five latest, largest polls on what Americans actually want, something that Wingfield the Wingnut has displayed he’s completely incapapble of doing.

September 2009 Major Surveys on Public Option: What the Country Thinks of the Repuboputzotards: What does America Really Think Backed up By the Four Largest Polls Recently as opposed to Wingnut’s fiction:

* The memo cited a Kaiser poll from August 11th, saying it found overwhelming support for consumer protections. What does it say on the public plan? Fifty nine percent support, 38% oppose.

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Coops are dead and haven’t worked in 30 years. In Grassley and Conrad’s state, they were complete failures and died. Triggers are a complete joke–we’ve had a big Trigger since Truman and the other Trigger was a horse and they’re both dead.

Tax credits would do nothing to stop the exponential increase in insurance premiums and deductibles that are causing one bankruptcy every 30 seconds, 430 Georgians to lose insurance per day, 14000 Americans to lose insurance per day when they get sick.

They won’t do a thing to touch the underinsured’s not being able to afford any more increases or the insurance they have now.

They won’t touch the Medicare Part D donut which the Repubozos passed for big pharma in 2003. Wingfield does not realize that the Repubozos and Blue Dogs are hookers taking in hundreds of thousands this summer and millions in their careers from insurance and pharamceutical companies.

The Repubozos and Blue dogs are hookers, and Insurance and Big Pharama are the johns in a Bunny Ranch paradigm that has existed for years.

And the seats that are in jeapordy in 2010 if public option is not passed, aren’t progressive seats at all. Progressives are safe in their districts. The Blue Dogs will be fired if they refuse a public option, and we don’t care. A Blue Dog is as worthless as a Repubozo on the take. Leiberman and Specter vote with Repubozos as do Conrad and the rest of the Blue Dogs.

So it doesn’t matter at all if a Blue Dog or Repubozos win their districts in 2010–they’re completely the same –hookers on the take from their corporate masters.

Maybe Wingfiredl thinks it’s pure accident that Blue Dog Evan Bayh’s wife has no job, but gets a $400 grand income for years simply sitting on the Board of Wellpoint for years.

What’s going to happen is that the Ben Nelsons and Kent Conrads are going to find out how little their power is, and the Senate Finance Six representing 2.2% of the country is going to find out what happens when they come up against Schumner and Dick Durbin who are roomates and the 2nd and 4th most powerful men in the Senate. Considering Harry Reid is polling worse than “mah mommy gave me lunch money to use on mah nookie” Ensign, Durbin may arguably be more poerful than Reid these days.

Breast Cancer in Wingfield’s wife requiring a triad of surgery, chemo, radiatino–she gets’ dropped in a nanosecond

Malpractice caps of 250 grand modestly reduce the doctor’s premium for malpractice insurance per specialty, but they do nothing for an American’s cost of HEALTH insurance, and Texas where there are 250 grand caps has illustrated this perfectly.

The Robert Wood Johnson study on malpractice recently butresses this.

Michigan, and Oregon and 3 other states have seen insurance premium rate increases by the two insurance companies dominating 94% of the US averaging near 30% in the last two weeks as the insurance gougers rush to jack up premiums and deductibles before legislation.

And Kaiser’s large study projects rates to triple within the next ten years if no reform is passed.

The House reiterated to Obama in it’s conference call Friday (Wingfield is of course unaware of this because he can’t dig and cover the news) that progressive are dead serious–no public option no bill.

House Liberals: Don’t Mess With Public Plan–8′3 House Progressives Say Public Option or They Won’t Support a Bill in the House or in Conference:
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2009/09/house-liberals-dont-mess-with.html

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Wingfireld is a little behind in reading the CBO studies. He should catch up before he contexts them:

New CBO study: Public health care option won’t dominate system

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Reform is needed.

We put more money into health care and get worse results than other wealthy countries in measurable, concrete terms like infant mortality and life expectancy. This is just a fact.

Personally, I want my doctor and Coca-Cola to have differing business models. I don’t care if Coca-Cola exists to make a profit. I don’t want my doctor and my insurance company to attempt to make a profit off my health care for reasons that have been cited here over and over. I want the people involved to be able to make a living wage, of course, but I don’t want them looking for ways to cut costs with my health so they can have more profit.

For me, it boils down to this. The liberals are seeing an existing problem with U.S. healthcare. It’s a very real problem; too many people are uninsured, and even the insured are one major catastrophe away from financial devastation.

The conservatives are afraid of shadows–problems that “might” exist if the government takes over healthcare. Well, I’ll take genuine solutions to genuine problems over sticking my head in the sand, pretending that there is no problem, and yelling that the sky might fall if anyone actually addresses it.

People in those terrible socialist countries are happier with their healthcare than we are.

I have health insurance; by most accounts, it’s comprehensive (Aetna). We certainly do pay a lot for it through my husband’s employer. However, my insurance company has denied coverage of a surgery that my doctors (multiple doctors) feel is necessary for my health. Government healthcare options in other countries generally fund that particular surgery, because they are more concerned with health outcomes than profit. Aetna, on the other hand, wants to make money. It’s hard to fault them for that, but why would we as a society choose this? Because we are afraid of the government? How profoundly sad that we (particularly in the South) have been brainwashed into kneejerk anti-government reactions on principle, despite what is in our best interests.

Who runs government? People.
Who runs private businesses? People.

For some things, government is better; for others, private enterprise. It’s time we make the decision to divorce healthcare from a pure profit motive.

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We’re passing public option because we’re tired of Insurats nce Company and Pharmaceutical company influence. They have been standing in the way of what we can Rx and how we can apply what we learn in keeping up because they drop our patients when they get sick.

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So here’s the question for September: When will Democrats follow suit? Question from Wingnut Wingfield:

We won’t “follow suit.” We clobbered Repubozos in the election and we voted for health care reform and public option. 83 House members signed a letter I linked above saying we won’t have a bill without public option. We don’t have to follow your suit. We beat your candidates by a mile.

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Gordon…
You accuse me of merely taking up space on a blog, but I didn’t insult you the way you have me.
And my “left wing talking-points” don’t come from the DNC…they come from having been priced out of the health insurance market, and losing my job, house, land, and equity after becoming seriously ill and needing a series of operations.
I speak from experience.
Sure, reasonable people can agree…but it is you who has resorted to the insult.
I also notice that you don’t offer any alternatives to the problem of health-care…just negativity.
I also notice that you didn’t comment on my original post. You reply to my second post wherein I support the opinions of people you disagree with.
Sour grapes.

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As it is, we’re about to get health care reform that measures human beings only in corporate terms of a cost-benefit analysis. I mean this is topsy-turvy — we should be treating health as a condition, not a commodity.

Bill Moyers, September 5, 2009

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Unconvincing argument. Still disappointed in the Republicans version of health care reform.

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Where is the republican alternative, are is it just say no.

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Bill Frist and the Repubozos put Medicare on track for in the red in 8 years because they played hookers to the johns from Big Pharma with Billy Tauzin as Rahm tried to do this summer. The House has rejected it. Deal won’t fly.

Reason for the Medicare Part D donut is that Medicare can’t bid competitively via consortium like Piedmont, Emory Healthcare and every metro Atlanta and private hospital in the US does.

White House Affirms Deal on Drug Cost brokered by Rahm and the Senate Finznce Sux Six–House Bills wreck Rahm’s Deal and 83 Progressives Won’t Vote for It
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insure.html

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Largest 4 Current Polls on Public Option:

Kaiser poll from August 11th, Fifty nine percent support, 38% oppose.

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Reform will Happen…get real. Our Asian creditors will not finance another debt binge by the U.S.
Treasury. Current outlays are 185% of domestic intake. It will not happen. The USA is functionally bankrupt. All of you are dreaming…………………….zzz.

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This democrat proposal is just expanding medicare to everyone. Medicare is going through money faster than we can print it. I am tired of hearing about 48 million people without insurance. If anyone of them gets sick or has an accident they will be treated. I doubt the figures thrown out by either side are close to being accurate anyway. I want to know how much coverage the government plan will offer and how much our taxes will go up to pay for it. So far I haven’t heard an answer to either one. Obama says he wants to offer everyone as good a coverage as he and the other politicians have. That’s a gold plated policy better than most of have with our private plans. He’s going to take my tax money and give someone who may not pay any taxes a better plan than me?

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Gordon

September 6th, 2009
10:26 pm

Now that you have made your reply a bit clearer as to whom you are speaking to I suggest you do the same in regards to reading MY earlier comments, ALL of them on this blog and others. The confusion will soon vanish rest assured. I have been staunchly against HR 3200 from the very beginning and remain staunchly against it (this would include any other future government ran healthcare program).

I do not favor HR 3400 either and if you happen to read what I posted on Jay Bookman’s blog about what I’d want to see in healthcare cooperatives you’ll find I went after trial lawyers, Unions and Pharmaceutical companies, etc. none of which the Democrats would dare touch. On the Republican side I went after Insurance companies, HMOs’, and even a better means of funding things like medical savings accounts and medical scholarships to produce the needed doctors that are now and will be even more so in the future in short supply – especially to serve rural areas and in some urban areas as well (all without creating any new taxes).

Step away from all the emotion and do some thinking.

Thanks for the advice but I’ve did that along time ago. As you’ll notice I didn’t drag into the discussion other issues like housing, financing and the incompetence of politicians in allowing my emotions to divert my attentions from the healthcare debate at hand.

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All this ranting about “government run health care”, and “competition” in health care is puzzling. No one has proposed government-run health care; all proposals for reform leave health care in the hands of private physicians, clinics, and hospitals.

What is proposed as the public option is a program like Medicare.

Medicare is a government-coordinated health care program that is far more satifactory and efficient than any private health insurance program. Medicare relies totally on private practitioners to deliver health care. Medicare subcontracts claims processing and other clerical functions to the lowest bidders, usually insurance companies. There is no large staff of government employees running Medicare; it works just fine as long as Congress stays out of it.

Private insurance companies have no place in basic health care coverage. They are the problem, not the solution. They make money by denying coverage and rejecting claims, not by providing reliable coverage to all applicants. Their administrative overhead is high compared to Medicare, about 25% vs. 6%.

The solution to the wacky American health care mess is a Medicare-like program for basic heath care, with private insurance companies offering supplemental coverage to those willing and able to pay for it.

I’d don’t mind medical providers (doctors, clinics, HMOs, etc.) competing to provide the best health care, but I don’t want to rely for basic health care on insurance companies that cherry-pick their clients, then try to find ways to cancel my coverage or deny treament if I become seriously ill.

Use your heads, people. Don’t get tripped up by muddled terminology and outdated concepts. Right now, reform is about the way we allocate and pay for medical services, not about medical practice.

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Medicare is government owned, ran(managed) and administered program.
I do not want government allocating, re-allocating or paying for my medical services, which has everything to do with the doctor-patient relation in the practice of medicine.

If anything is a dated failed concept, it is socialism. The Public Option is one more step on the socialist pathway.

The Public Option is not required to end cherry picking, preexisting claims, lifetime caps or denial of or limiting treatment. All of these health insurance industry practices could be eliminated in one law without any new government program or one more additional penny sent to the government.

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Gerald,

Do you realize that Medicare and Medicaid are bankrupt? They have tens of trillions of unfunded liabilities. They are unsustainable. And you want to extend that model to everyone? That would be like extended the model of government California uses to the entire United States because the weather is nice out there. Of course people like Medicare – they get something that NO ONE PAYS FOR. We’ve see recently what happens when people get things (houses) that no one pays for. IT DOESN’T WORK!! The vast majority of people are going to have to have significant service reductions (another word for rationing), or the Chinese say enough is enough and stop lending us money. I can’t believe they are still doing that now.

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Upon the singing of this bill into law anywhere within the jurisdiction of the United States of America, any entity inuring the health and well being of any U.S. Citizen shall sell health insurance to any U.S. Citizen applicant and shall not be permit to set lifetime caps, cancel health insurance coverage for any reason other than non-payment of premiums or limit in any fashion whatsoever full payment for the treatment of any medical condition as prescribed under the advice and care of a licensed physician within the jurisdiction of the United States of America.

Okay socialist libs there you have it. Your excuse for a socialist government single payer Public Option program and whining about greedy insurance companies has just been taken away. I’ll leave any other legal details to the Congress, while the whimpering lot that remains dries-up those big crocodile tears. (sniffle, sniffle)

Now, want to talk about reforms correcting the trial lawyers and tort reform, BIG GREEDY PHARMA (which is far more profitable than the greedy health insurance industry), medical device makers, waste, fraud and abuse within the healthcare system etc., etc.

Guess not, you guys have not done so to date.

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The headline should read: Democrats are morons when it comes to health care.

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The posts by “Voice” and “Art” and the rest of the left here are nothing more than an expression of their jealousy and contempt for the successful. “Voice” and his pseudo-intellectual rants citing bogus statistics, along with his personal attacks on anyone who disagrees, are as boring as the speeches from Obama and the “Members” of Congress.

One more, “I don’t want anyone profiting off of my misery…” tirade will be toooooooo much. If any of you have a JOB you are profiting off of someone’s misery. Sell Shoes? Someone does not have shoes and therefore you are profiting from their misery.

Do you want what England, France and the other “socialized medicine” countries have? Doctors and nurses educated in Third World countries who are hardly able to communicate and have far fewer skills than those we are currently blessed to have in the US.

Lawyers are the most egregious examples of “profiting from misery” because their pals in Congress pass laws allowing the rest to avoid tort reform and profit from someone’s MISERY. The state of Texas passed tort reform and MD’s and medical personnel are moving there and health care costs are low.

From “Voice”, “The VA provides the best care…” etc., etc. That is simply untrue. The best medical care in the US is generally accepted to be at the Mayo Clinic. Guess where health costs are among the lowest in the nation? That is right, the area around the Mayo Clinic.

As in most problems, the health care issue is a States Rights issue. The states also have the RIGHT under the Constitution to decide their own solutions to health care problems within their boundaries. The Congress is acting outside the limits set by the Constitution and should not be involved.

California, with the election of Jerry Brown in the 70’s, started the walk down the path the current clown in the White House is attempting to take the entire country. The result? California is bankrupt and people are leaving the state in droves.

What took California down the path to ruin? The answer – public employee unions, green initiatives that would produce thousands of jobs (NOT), cash for clunkers, opposition to the building of power plants, and more and more of the socialist agenda – including initiatives that would require tax increases that would actually produce LESS revenue.

California is an example of the future of the US if the Democrats and Republicans are not voted out of Congress in favor of politicians who not only take an oath to uphold the Constitution but actually abide by that oath.

Each and every incumbent should be defeated in 2010.

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I don’t disagree with much of what you had to say JD. Especially on the Federal government overstepping it constitutional authority in regards to the States and States Rights. However, as one lady, a small business owner in fact, told her disinterested Democrat Representative, there are over 1,300 health insurance companies in the U.S. but in California she can only purchase healthcare insurance from about 13 of these companies. True, it is the Right of the State to license and issue licenses and not that of the federal government or an individual’s right to license anything under the tenth amendment of the U.S. Constitution. However, I will have to side with Rep. Duncan Hunter and the small business lady in California: I and every U.S. citizen should be able to buy their health insurance from any entity that insures the health and well being of a U.S. Citizen within the jurisdiction of the United States of America that is licensed to sell insurance by any State in this union. No differently than when one is buying homeowners insurance, auto insurance or life insurance. I don’t fear honest competition or the creation of more honest competition than presently exists within the capitalist market in order to bend the cost curve on healthcare insurance in making it affordable and potentially improve the quality of healthcare. And I don’t consider government honest competition.

By the way, see Bill Walker’s post in the previous blog – About term limits, etc. – in regards to the Constitutional Convention that should have already been convened under Article Five.

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Michelle H. Smith,

Stephen Hawking has lived his entire life in the UK and two weeks ago said that he wouldn’t be alive right now if not for the fabulous care he’s received in the UK (socialist) health care system. Please forgive me if I choose to believe the words of the actual scientist over those of a construction worker from Georgia.

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