Fan talk: Where do the Dawgs go from here?

Did Mike Bobo not trust his backup players enough against Vandy? (University of Georgia)

Did Mike Bobo not trust his backup players enough against Vandy? (University of Georgia)

Aside from the “Fire Richt!” and “Fire everyone!” laments from some readers, there were more reasoned fan responses and questions in this week’s Junkyard Mail. Let’s check some of it out. …

Joe Burger writes: Hey Bill, Mediocre defense, more special teams errors, the absolute worst called offensive game of the year, just terrible. The whole football program gets an F [against Vanderbilt]. Now, I know there were some TERRIBLE calls and, yes, we’re missing offensive playmakers, but we lost to Vandy. So, would you change your midterm grade for the team after seeing that performance? And even more importantly, but left unanswered in your report card, where is the UGA football program headed in the future? Bill, are we ever gonna win a national championship with coach Richt and his staff? I hate to be the Doubting Thomas, and I’m not gonna scream to fire coach Richt, but at what point do you say, “We need a new leader, we need fresh leadership to take us to a higher level.” These type of morale-busting losses have been too often over the last few years. To open the season the way we did, then to follow it up with these losses, especially against Vandy, is downright embarrassing. As always, thanks Bill …

Joe, I wouldn’t revisit my midterm grade for the Dogs (overall grade B-) because it was based on the first six games. But, yes, the Bulldogs are off to a very poor start on the second half of the season, though I’m not ready to write them off just yet. For the Vandy game, I’d have given the offense a D, the defense a C-, special teams an F and coaching a D. (And if I were grading the officials, they would have been expelled!) As for the future, Georgia returns most of its offensive talent next year (Aaron Murray being the notable exception) and the young defensive players will be a year older, though Todd Grantham’s record as a developer of talent at UGA is mixed so far. Next year also sees a very favorable schedule for Georgia. Good enough to win a national title? Well, barring another year of numerous and key injuries and a flop by Hutson Mason or whoever ends up succeeding Murray, it certainly would be possible. But, frankly, I’d say until Mark Richt adjusts his stubborn attitude on the subject of special teams and figures out a way to keep that aspect of the game from continually dragging down his program, the odds are long against any sort of championship. And I don’t necessarily mean just naming a special teams coordinator. Coordinator or no, what Georgia needs to do is figure out why execution in special teams play is so frequently poor. Do they need to practice more? Do they need to revisit what they do in practice? Do players need to be held more accountable? Would an Urban Meyer approach, where players compete for the honor of playing on special teams led by the head coach, be more effective? I don’t know, but, unless Richt figures out an answer, his teams are going to keep losing games they shouldn’t lose.

Mike Edwards, who attended the game in Nashville, writes: There are many reasons for UGA losing, but the main reason is the coaching staff approached this game with a let’s not lose [attitude] as opposed to let’s play this game to win it. We keep hearing the mantra “next man up,” then ask them to play with their proverbial hands tied behind their backs. Other teams are winning with backup players because they trust them to execute the plays they have been coached to play. Players know when a coaching staff does not trust them to make the plays and they will play to those expectations. If you truly believe in the “next man up” mantra then coach them in a way where you demand and expect them to execute the plays. This loss is on the coaching staff.  Hopefully things can be turned around for the rest of the season. Let’s play to win the rest of them! Still a UGA fan!

I think you make a very good point, Mike, especially when it comes to Georgia’s anemic offensive showing against the Dores. While, yes, you’d expect Mike Bobo to have adjusted his playcalling somewhat in the absence of talent like Todd Gurley and Justin Scott-Wesley, his ultra conservative game plan against Vandy and his refusal to challenge Vandy deep backfired. I think his approach also may have rubbed off on his quarterback, who admitted he already was having “trust” problems with his replacement receivers. The only way for Murray to gain trust in those players is to challenge them to get open and break the big play that has been Bobo’s mainstay.

Josh Cuevas writes: Bill, Undoubtedly the defense is the biggest problem right now, and it hasn’t improved with experience. Last year the defense was porous even with a slew of NFL players-to-be roaming the field. This year with younger players it’s one of the worst in the country. That should never happen with the kind of recruits UGA gets, even if we had to start 11 true freshmen. … With the exception of the 2011 Dawgs, Grantham’s defenses have vastly underperformed every season given the type of talent he has on the field. Even with the rash of recent injuries, Georgia would have still been a Top 10 team this year if the defense had simply been average, instead of terrible, unable to make stops on 3rd and 4th downs even against the worst teams. Certainly the Bulldogs have experienced other problems (special teams, horrible officiating, injuries, overly conservative play calling, etc.), but teams with a talent base like Georgia’s should be able to overcome those sporadic flaws. They can’t overcome a defense that can’t stop 2nd string quarterbacks from 2nd tier programs from marching down the field on every possession.

A tough but fair assessment, Josh. Normally, when an opponent’s starting quarterback goes out, you’d expect a defense to be react like a shark when there’s blood in the water, but against Missouri and Vandy Grantham’s defenders seemed, if anything, to relax. Not a sign of good coaching.

Head linesman Gary Jayroe gets an earful from Mark Richt in the Vanderbilt game. (Associated Press)

Head linesman Gary Jayroe gets an earful from Mark Richt in the Vanderbilt game. (Associated Press)

Jim P. writes: As bad as Georgia’s play was [against Vanderbilt], it was good enough to win the game. But the refs and the asinine [targeting] rule stole the game at that point. People are lying if they say otherwise. The Dawgs had the game under control at that point.

As much like sour grapes as that might sound, Jim, you’re right. That belated second targeting call, in particular, was abysmal and showed every sign of resulting from an official feeling pressure from the Vandy bench right behind him. We probably won’t ever know whether that officiating crew was disciplined or reprimanded in any way by the SEC, but they certainly needed it.

Bubba King (no relation) writes: Bill, Over the summer, I wrote to you regarding my major concern going into the season. You were nice enough to post my email, and in your reply, you scoffed at my concerns. Do you recall what it was? It was long-snapping. My point was that we had been spoiled by the mistake-free play of Ty Frix, and you pretty much told me that there were two players there who were more than capable to do the job and long-snapping should be the least of my worries. How do you feel about that now? LOL, just busting your chops a little.

Consider my chops properly busted, Bubba!

Morton Johnson writes: Bill, Looking ahead at next season, I’m growing very concerned about the fact that the presumed heir to the starting quarterback position will have hardly played in a real game in more than two years. I know Georgia has had a tough schedule up to now that didn’t allow for a lot of second- and third-team players to get in, but shouldn’t the coaches be thinking ahead at least a little bit when it comes to Hutson Mason?

Good question, Morton, and a tough one for Richt and his staff to deal with. On his “Bulldog Hotline” show this week, the coach was asked about the backup QB and responded that he would have expected Mason to have played by now, but noted: “It’s just been one of those kinds of seasons … every single game has come down to the wire.” Unless Kentucky turns out to be a cakewalk, the only game left on the schedule where you might expect Mason to see much playing time is Appalachian State. While I know it might seem unfair to fifth-year senior Murray to ask him to give up any playing time, I think perhaps starting Mason in that game might be good, just to let him feel what it’s like to be the starter. Even if he sits most of that game, Murray is still likely to get the remaining records within his reach. I have a feeling Richt and Bobo wouldn’t be willing to go so far as to start Mason, but I certainly hope he gets the bulk of the playing time against App State. Just as Murray deserves kudos for coming back to play his senior year, Mason is due some credit for taking a redshirt year last season and staying at Georgia when he could have transferred elsewhere. I think he’s owed some playing time for that.

Beach Dawg Living Among Equally Unhappy Gators writes: We all feel the pain and, as you know, the blogs are humming with passionate views on who needs to be fired, what needs to be done, etc, etc. About the only thing that I have not seen recommended is abolishment of the football program! So, Mr. King, if you choose to accept, what are the top three actions you would take at the end of the season if you were the AD and/or head coach.

Interesting challenge, Beach Dawg. OK, I’ll bite. The first thing I would do wouldn’t wait until after the season. I’d tell Grantham now to simplify his defensive schemes and get them in to the players quicker because I didn’t ever want to have to burn another timeout because the defense was confused as to the call. That’s just inexcusable. Same thing goes for whoever is responsible for getting the special teams out on the field; Georgia should never have to burn a timeout for that, either. Speaking of special teams, I’d address that problem as I outlined in the answer to the earlier question. And, lastly, I’d take a good, hard look at what’s being done to recruit and develop players on both the offensive and defensive lines.

Quayvon Hicks is sporting a different style of facemask this season. (Jason Getz / AJC)

Quayvon Hicks is sporting a different style of facemask this season. (Jason Getz / AJC)

Paula Bechtler writes: Hi Bill! Any update on Chris Conley after his injury on Saturday? Can you tell me if there is going to be a Dawg Walk in Jacksonville, and if so, when and where? Also, I have noticed that some UGA players have face masks that look slightly different from the others, with a tighter-knit web pattern. Do you know why that is? Thanks!

Last word on Conley was inconclusive but it didn’t look like he was that close to being able to return to practice. And if he doesn’t practice, he won’t play against the Gators. The grill-like facemask you’re referring to, worn by fullback Quayvon Hicks, is similar to one worn by a couple of NFL players. Before the season, when the players were getting new helmets, Hicks told the equipment manager he wanted something more “intimidating” than a conventional facemask. As for the Dawg Walk in Jacksonville, UGA athletic information chief Claude Felton tells me it will be the same as the last few years. Players unload from the buses near the stadium loading dock and make a short walk into the stadium. It’s scheduled for 1:39 p.m. ET.

Barbara Sarco writes: Hi Bill, is Adrian Scott, a monster senior defensive back out of Valdosta High, on Richt’s radar? Think I should tweet him (CMR)? Scott is leading the defensive charge down in God’s country. Thanks.

Barbara, we won’t really know until the coaches get on the road next month for evaluations what late-bloomers they’re pursuing, but AJC recruiting guru Michael Carvell says he hasn’t heard anything yet about Georgia and Scott. A tweet to the head coach certainly wouldn’t hurt.

That’s it for this bye week. Next time, we’ll talk Dogs and Gators!

Got something you want to discuss concerning the Dawgs? Or a question you want the Junkyard Blawg to tackle? Email me at  junkyardblawg@gmail.com.

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— Bill King, Junkyard Blawg

427 comments Add your comment

dawgfan

October 26th, 2013
5:43 pm

Bill even concedes that a championship isn’t likely next year for the 9th season in a row, but we’re unreasonable for wanting a change.

Didn’t Donnan get fired for not making us championship contenders after only 5 seasons? Or am I being unreasonable for asking that question?

doggoneit

October 26th, 2013
5:50 pm

Flat Tire You gave no answer. Typical of an idiot

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
5:53 pm

Im glad we pay almost $5 million a year for coaches to make sure our graduation rate is one of the nations best

Maybe another pay raise and contract extension will get us a conference championship and respectability in the SEC someday

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
5:57 pm

doggoneit

Art Briles

It doesnt take too much ability to find good coaching

oh

any comment on FSU’s new DC?

any comment on the coaching search when Donnan was here???

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
5:57 pm

Hooray , Duke is Bowl eligible for two years in a row. What a difference low expectations make in the success of a football program.

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
6:01 pm

Anyone know who Duke’s coach is???

Its the guy who left the Tennessee program after they won a National Title (when he left Tennessee fell apart)

Maybe a lesson should be learned on that……. (The importance of good coordinators)

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
6:05 pm

David Cutcliffe head coach at Duke. Left Tennessee for Ole Miss, got fired and landed at Duke. Great OC at Tennessee and a pretty good HC at Duke.

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
6:09 pm

Maybe a better lesson learned is having more realistic expectations of your football program.

Bulldog Born & Bred

October 26th, 2013
6:10 pm

I hope Richt watched Tenn-Ala & Tex A&M-Vandy today he should be ashamed

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
6:15 pm

I hope Richt was not wasting time watching football.I hope he was out finding a long snapper and punter who can execute a successful punt.

TU

October 26th, 2013
6:15 pm

Murray’s hope at the Heisman are done, so why not rotate other players at QB. They do so at the other positions.

Pago Pago DAWG

October 26th, 2013
6:20 pm

Have you seen any teams today that UGA could beat? Didn’t think so…

7576DAWG

October 26th, 2013
6:23 pm

I know that Richt and Bobo are too proud but they both should be studying ever move Saban makes so they can become better Coaches. Any team that has this many injuries is doing something wrong , whether it’s nutrition, weight training, correct amount of rest, practice routine or teaching the wrong techniques.
I hope McGarity will provide the help that Richt obviously needs because I don’t think Richt is willing to change no matter what the proof that change is needed.

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
6:34 pm

“Maybe a better lesson learned is having more realistic expectations of your football program.”

Lets see

Vince Dooley had……

6 SEC championships
5 one loss seasons
2 Undefeated regular seasons
1 National Title
2 National title game appearances

The last 13 years

1 one loss season
0 Undefeated seasons
0 National Title appearances
2 SEC championships

Expectations too high????

I guess the next excuse is those Vince Dooley years never happened right???

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
6:36 pm

I am worried 1 and 5 Appy State rebounded today with a 38-14 win over arch rival Ga. Southern. They will be riding high coming in to Athens to play a depleted UGA team, coming off an emotional game vs. their biggest SEC rival Florida.I see your point Pago Pago. However Nebraska lost to Minnesota today maybe UGA can get a rematch in a lower tier Florida bowl.

Jimmy

October 26th, 2013
6:39 pm

1. Murray is ranked last in the NCAA in interceptions, just like 2011, he was 90th in 2012
2. Murray is ranked 89th on 3rd down conversions

That’s why UGA loses so many games.

Jimmy

October 26th, 2013
6:41 pm

None of these people who asked questions are real Dawg fans.

Every real Dawg fan I know is focused on Hutson Mason and 2014.

We all know why we’re losing games, Murray last in interceptions and 3rd down conversions in the SEC.

Jimmy

October 26th, 2013
6:43 pm

Murray has ranked:
1) Last in 2011 in interceptions in the nation
2.) 90th in 2012
3) Last in 2013

And Murray’s record vs ranked teams is something like 4-14.

Enough already, he stinkin the place up for 5 years.

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
6:47 pm

Jimmy

whose decision then was it to leave Murray in all these games the past 4 years?

what will the excuse be next year since Murray is gone?

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
6:58 pm

Flat Tire
For those of us that were at UGA for the Glory Years (The Hershel Walker Years) we were all mad that Dooley only won one National Title. I feel your pain about the current situation with the UGA football program.But as long as the UGA Athletic Association is raking record amounts of money ,even with the team’s mediocre performance nothing is going to change.Maybe if in the near future more empty seats appear in Sanford Stadium ,pressure can be mounted for the administration to make changes on the coaching staff.

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
7:04 pm

Erk

I already know that;

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
7:07 pm

Jimmy
If Mizzou beats the ol’Ball coach tonight and the Dawgs are eliminated from SEC East race than I think CMR should split time with Mason and Murray and get the future QB some game experience. But I would not count on it ,CMR is loyal to his QB’s to a fault. It took a fake injury to Joey T to get CMR to replace him with Matt Stafford during Staffords’s freshman year.

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
7:08 pm

Flat Tire
Just wanted you to know, that I knew who Vince Dooley was.

DawgNole

October 26th, 2013
7:13 pm

Joey
October 26th, 2013
11:57 am
Don’t mistake my realism for negativism.
______________________

Get used to it. ALL the delusionists do it–ALL the time.

dog4life

October 26th, 2013
7:21 pm

Looks like Mo is for real. They are up 14-0 over the clucks! a 96 yd TD pass–just wow!

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
7:31 pm

Erk

I just wanted to make sure you realize we arent close to being where this program should be

especially when Dooley did not have the recruiting base like this coaching staff does today

esaun

October 26th, 2013
7:35 pm

Enter your comments here

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
7:38 pm

The three weeks since the LSU victory have made a profound change in the perception of the football program. There was griping about the lack of production by the defense but most of the talk was about beating Bama in the SEC title game.Then the rash of injuries in Tennessee and getting beat by Missouri and the Dogs beating themselves against Vandy .Now just three weeks later and the perception is Richt has to go and the football program is a joke. The Dogs will be lucky to be bowl eligible, and the defense will give up 30 to the bye week. Nothing is going to happen until the season is over.If Richt gets the team to play well and finishes 9 and 3 the perception will change and the talk will be about next year and the high expectations with all of the returning young talent. But if the team fades down the stretch and it is 7 and 5 or heaven forbid 6 and 6 with a loss to Tech,then it will be an off season of discontent for the Dog Fans and maybe the rustle of the winds of change in the coaching staff.

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
7:52 pm

Erk

you dont lose to Vandy with their 2nd string QB; sorry there is no excuse for that

even if we end up winning out; you will see the same results next year

2 or more losses
Another game where the team was completely unprepared for a loss
Special teams issues (but with everyone complaining its 50/50 on that)
O-line will under perform again
The defense will not win you games
Offensive play calling will go conservative sometime during the year costing you a loss
Lack of discipline in the area of penalties and turnovers

Followed up with some catchy catch phrases “Like Dream Team” to get the delusional kool-aid flowing

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
8:15 pm

Flat Tire
Where should the football program be ? Back to the Dooley years or some other high water mark in the 1940’s.And remember Dooley never had to coach in a SEC Championship game and some of his SEC titles were of the shared variety.Don’t get me wrong Dooley was a great coach during his time at UGA. But was it a great football program? Both of Dooley’s National Championship games were during the Walker years and his other undefeated season Dooley opted to not play for the title .The football program under Richt has not met the expectation of many Dog fans and this season has been a major let down so far. But with the competition in the SEC getting stronger every year I don’t see the program being great with or without Richt as the head coach.

BankerDawg

October 26th, 2013
8:15 pm

Flat – your waiting your time. It doesn’t matter what evidence or facts you present some fans will distort them, manipulate them, or simply excuse them to feel all “fuzzy” about their man Richt. It’s quite simple really, are we winning games we shouldn’t and winning games we should. The obvious answer and all the facts point to an emphatic “no, we are not”. Well then, what would a reasonable person conclude? It’s either a talent problem or a coaching problem. Hmm, let me see, Top 7 recruitng classes, top 3 program in sending players to the NFL. “Ding, Ding, Ding”. I guess it must be coaching. What? It can’t be!

Yes, that was a rant. For those of you who cannot critically think, that was a little bone for you to chew on. Its time for a change folks. We are not getting better. Our dense, Oline, ST have been awful for years. Two choices, keep the status quo and “hope” or make a change and live with the results.

Binko

October 26th, 2013
8:17 pm

Stafford and Greene didn’t lose to teams like Vanderbilt.

Yes sir, it’s all on Aaron Murray.

Good news: the more Murray loses, better chances Richt will be forced to put in Hutson Mason, so root for the Dawgs to lose cuz Coach Richt is too dense to put Mason in otherwise.

BankerDawg

October 26th, 2013
8:20 pm

Binko – I get what your saying, but I can’t pull against the Dawgs. I don’t care if Obama was coaching them. However, if the chips fall that way, we should have confidence in our Atheletic dept to get it right. Richt is not UGA football. Some can’t see that.

Dusty

October 26th, 2013
8:22 pm

Mark Richt has been coaching Qb’s for over 25 years.

Aaron Murray is the ONLY Qb Richt has coached to have a losing record.

That was 2010.

Looks like Murray’s going to end up the way he started, 6 wins, 7 losses.

Look for losses to Florida, Auburn and Ga Tech and the Bowl game.

BankerDawg

October 26th, 2013
8:24 pm

Dusty – if that happens I’d love to see Flo-ri-duh and NCDawg give as excuses…

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
8:30 pm

So let me get this straight

UGA has had more top 10 recruiting classes than any other school in FBS since the late 90’s
UGA has put more players in the NFL since 2001 than any other school in the SEC
UGA ranks 3rd putting players in the NFL since the late 90’s among all FBS schools

The state of Georgia has been a top 5 recruiting state for over 20 years

And you are saying you dont see the program being great wow

No I see a program that needs the right coach Ive heard several times on national radio programs (not the in state ones) say the right coach at UGA will easily win the National title with the above mentioned

As for Dooley; Dooley never coached in the era where a 1 loss SEC team got the opportunity to play for National Titles due to the northerners thinking the Big 10; Notre Dame; and Oklahoma were the only places were football was played

As for the “”"Walker Years”"”"”……………………

Its pretty impressive Dooley won with 1 player;

yet the current coaching staff cant go without 2 losses with (the statistical #1 QB in SEC history; 7 NFL players on Defense; and a running back in Gurley who given the same number of carries that Walker had his freshmen year would have had the same numbers) all on the same team

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
8:31 pm

Flat Tire
I agree Georgia should never blow a 10 point 4th quarter lead to anyone especially Vandy,the defense under Grantham has hit new lows and Bobo still is inconsistent and infuriating with his play calls on offense.And the Black outs and the Red outs brought to you by Richt and Nike suck. And I have never seen a Georgia football team have so many negative special team plays. Richt should have to answer for these issues and make major changes to his staff ,but I personally think he will be back whether he wins 9 games or 6 games this year.The excuses will be made too many injuries too many freshmen starting and so on it goes and Richt will coach at UGA until he decides to leave ,whether we think he should be let go or not.

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
8:36 pm

Im not saying he wont be back next year; I would be shocked if there was any changes at all to anyone on the coaching staff even if we lose 3 more games

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
8:41 pm

Flat
I am biased for sure ,but Gurley is not the 2nd coming of Walker.He has already missed more games in one and a half years than Walker missed in three .

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
8:43 pm

Never said he was but his freshmen output was just as good

and he was on his way to having another great season this year

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
8:45 pm

Banker

I know; its just comedy hour for me when I read the laughable excuses that have been typed on these blogs for years

and yet every single year its the same result with more catchy slogans to get the kool-aiders talking the ole “wait til next year”

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
8:45 pm

And another obvious bias There Is No Way in Hell that Todd Grantham is in any way the next Erk Russell.

Augie Doggie

October 26th, 2013
8:45 pm

Does the whining EVER stop?

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
8:51 pm

who ever said he has been better than Martinez?

BankerDawg

October 26th, 2013
8:53 pm

Augie – it’s funny how that works, the “whining” stops when “winning” begins

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
8:54 pm

“”Does the whining EVER stop?”"

Sure; as soon as you start seeing some 1 loss or undefeated seasons with Sugar Bowl appearances and SEC championships every 4 or 5 years

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
8:54 pm

Martinez compared to Grantham what is the difference, negligible at best.

LADawg

October 26th, 2013
8:55 pm

Has anyone noticed what a HC with some fire in his belly and a competent DC can do as with Auburn? The Tigers are the red-headed step-child in Alabama and are dependent on Georgia recruits to field a team and may wind up in a similar bowl as UGA, but they are light years from where they were last year and trending up. Last year with our weak of the weakest schedules, we were not within 5 yards of a SEC championship, we were a defense that could not stop the run and an inability to get off the field on 3rd down from an SEC championship. Sound familiar?

Erk Russell's Dog

October 26th, 2013
8:58 pm

You heard it here first,the flacks on ESPN have declared that Urban Meyer’s Ohio State Buckeyes deserve to be ranked as high as Bama ,FSU and Oregon. What a damn joke of a conference BIG 1 Little 10.

Flat Tire doesnt live in Delusionalville Ga.

October 26th, 2013
8:59 pm

thats my point