Fan talk: Richt’s problem isn’t discipline or risky recruiting, it’s perception (Updated)
Was it "risky" for UGA to recruit Isaiah Crowell? (Associated Press)
So, SEC Media Days have come and gone, Mark Richt will be making his annual visit to the Cobb Galleria Monday, and season tickets will go into the mail the second week of August. Now, it’s starting to feel like football season! So let’s check the Junkyard Mail. …
EarthDawg writes: Bill, what do you think of these critics who blame Mark Richt’s recruiting for the disciplinary problems at Georgia, saying he’s taken too many risks and ignored “red flags” with players like Isaiah Crowell. They act like Richt is cruising reform schools looking for junior hoodlums. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Crowell recruited by just about every major football program in the country? Aside from a reputation for taking himself out of the game a lot in high school, I don’t recall any red flags raised in advance about Crowell.
You’re right. Alabama, Florida, Southern Cal, Auburn and other schools offered a scholarship to Crowell, a consensus five-star prospect, and gladly would have enrolled him, yet you don’t see anyone questioning Nick Saban’s recruiting judgment in going after him. “We’re not recruiting bad kids,” Richt said this week. “We’re competing for the same guys everybody else is in the league.”
Looking at the disciplinary problems that have cropped up at UGA in the past year and concluding that Georgia’s head coach must need to change the sort of kids he recruits — especially without explaining what sort of players you would go after instead of the ones every school wants — is a facile argument that doesn’t take into account the realities and complexities of modern-day college football recruiting. As Richt reminded reporters, coaches are limited in the amount of contact they can have during recruiting and do the best they can to root out character flaws in advance. But they’re not able to peer into the future and see how an 18-year-old will react to the freedoms and temptations that come with attending a large university in a hard-partying town like Athens — particularly kids who’ve gotten the star treatment and been coddled and enabled throughout high school to the point that many don’t think everyday rules apply to them or don’t expect to be held accountable.
As for comparing Georgia’s situation with other schools, you have to factor in that not only does UGA have one of the strictest policies in the country for recreational drug use — with the quickest and stiffest penalties — but Georgia players also happen to reside in one of the most closely policed college towns around.
And once the players run afoul of the rules, Richt tends to come down on them harder than many other coaches. Do you really think Stephen Garcia would have lasted through five suspensions at UGA? And how many coaches would kick a quarterback off the team who’s good enough to become the starter at a school in the same conference — and not put any restrictions on where the player could go? Zach Mettenberger wound up at LSU, where first drug offenses rate no suspension and where last year three players (including the Honey Badger) missed just one game after apparently failing at least a second drug test.
Richt correctly noted this week that the playing field isn’t level in the SEC when it comes to drug policies or discipline. “Some people have policies that bring certain things to light and some people don’t,” he said. “To say these issues aren’t happening around the country [isn’t] really realistic.” Not only did Les Miles sign Mettenberger after he was kicked off Richt’s team, but last season Jordan Jefferson missed four games for LSU after being involved in a bar fight. Should Miles rethink his risky recruiting?
Certainly, there’ve also been problems at Auburn, where four players were kicked off the team for being charged in an armed robbery. And yet it’s Richt who carries this reputation for having discipline problems, not Gene Chizik.
It’s not that Richt has a discipline problem or a recruiting problem as much as he has a perception or publicity problem. UGA players get called out more because of tougher policies and get punished more severely. Perhaps the school’s publicists should try flipping the discussion by emphasizing the higher standards to which the Bulldogs are held and making that the topic of national and regional sports talk rather than the numbers of players who run afoul of the rules.
Richard Samuel is a prime example of an unselfish player. (Associated Press)
Matt Cafaro writes: Bill, I don’t know about you, but Richard Samuel is finding his way up my list of favorite Dawgs of all time for his unselfish devotion to his teammates and our Alma Mater. Hines Ward was another Dawg in a very similar situation, and he reacted the same way, with the same attitude: “Put me anywhere on the field, and I’ll play as hard as I can.” I think special attention needs to be paid to Samuel this year by Bulldog Nation for his willingness to sacrifice playing time (to acclimate himself to LB again) and a whole redshirt year in order to do his part to make the Dawgs a better, deeper team. Maybe extra cheers whenever he gets in a game or a standing ovation on Senior Day at the end of the year, or perhaps some attention from the AJC. Something, anything that brings credit to his team-first ideals. I know most of us like to think that ALL the Dawgs should feel and do as guys like Hines and Richard do, but the sad reality is, that just isn’t the case, as we’ve seen MANY selfish, me-first players come and go in Athens (Isaiah Crowell just the latest example).
Well said. I don’t believe Samuel’s unselfish attitude has gone unnoticed by Georgia fans and those who cover UGA, but a bit of extra recognition for his refreshing devotion to doing whatever the team needs certainly is deserved. I know a lot of fans were heartsick when Samuel’s terrific game against the Gators last year ended in injury, and certainly those of us in attendance at G-Day noticed the boost he provided when put in at tailback in the second half. Here’s hoping he gets the senior season he deserves. If he does, it can only be to Georgia’s benefit.
Andrew Smith writes: Hey Bill, Mizzou head coach Gary Pinkel seems to be building up the SEC season opener atmosphere. Given UGA’s tendency to take a few games to “warm up” for the season do you see this game being closer than when both teams are in late-season form? Does the fact that the Mizzou QB has only been throwing a few days after surgery now play a factor in your decision?
It’s too early to know what sort of shape QB James Franklin will be in come Sept. 8. If he’s not back 100 percent at that point, it might balance out somewhat the Georgia defense missing however many starters. But to answer the first part of your question, yes, the slow starts Georgia teams have gotten off to in recent seasons is a major concern. If the Dogs’ offense shows up against Mizzou looking as not-ready-for-prime-time it did in the Dome last year against Boise State, it could be a long night for those in red and black.
Art Finley writes: Bill, Here are a couple of recent headlines . . .
May 31, 2012: The football games scheduled for 2020 and 2021 between Georgia and Ohio State have been called off. Ohio State recently informed UGA that it is exercising its right to cancel the games, which had been set up in a memorandum of understanding between the schools in December 2010. “They couldn’t make it happen due to the Pac 12-Big 10 football schedule deal,” Georgia athletic director Greg McGarity said Thursday, referring to a recent agreement between those conferences for a series of regular-season matchups beginning in 2017.
July 13, 2012: “We are disappointed to announce today that the Big Ten/Pac-12 strategic collaboration announced jointly in December 2011 unfortunately will not be consummated,” Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany said in a statement.
Do you think there is any chance that AD McGarity will contact Ohio State about reinstating the memo of understanding for Ohio State and UGA to play?
It depends on how much strength of schedule ends up figuring in selections for the new four-team playoff. If that really does wind up being a determining factor, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Georgia and OSU take another stab at scheduling a home-and-home. I’d certainly rather pay to see the Dogs play the Buckeyes than Florida Atlantic or North Texas, wouldn’t you?
UPDATE: Speaking to reporters prior to Monday’s UGA Day, Greg McGarity said that he plans on calling Ohio State to see about renewing the deal.
I’ll answer more Junkyard Mail next week, so if you have something you want to discuss concerning UGA athletics or a question for the Junkyard Blawg, send it to junkyardblawg@gmail.com.
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— Bill King, Junkyard Blawg
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197 comments Add your comment
southgadawg
July 23rd, 2012
2:33 pm
You dont have to worry about the Dawgs being on a 4year bowl ban losing mulitiple schollys and having 111 victories vacated. There conduct issues EVERYWHERE! UGA’s issues are usually minor in comparison.
Texas DAWG
July 23rd, 2012
3:02 pm
DIE Hard Dawg FAN but……….if you or anyone thinks we don’t have an issue at UGA you simply have your head in the sand………………NO OTHER TEAM have lost every starting tailback for what the last three seasons, four seasons????? LSU ’s starting QB….kicked off our team…..please open your eyes and look at how many of of our 4 star and 5 star players have either left or been kicked off the team…..yea…yea got it…other teams do lose players but UGA numbers should tell the average fan something is up………..I don’t blame anyone but something is going on?????I’m no recruiting expert or coaching expert……..but just imagine it was LSU…BAMA…Floridia ect…that lost had the same amount of players…..something ain’t right…..I couldn’t begin to explain how to solve the problem….but something is up??? Athens police target ball players….our drug policies to strict….CMR to tuff on them….don’t know but I’m suprized more sport casters have honed in on us.
McDawg
July 23rd, 2012
3:47 pm
remember the last time Rambo and Ogletree were out-Boise St dumped 5-7 yd passes over the middle alll night long
AltamahaDawg
July 23rd, 2012
3:53 pm
Not picking on you Texas DAWG. Your concern is well placed. BUT Who has thier head in the sand? What I see is is a fairly detailed and lengthy discussion on the matter . Are you disagreing with any of that? No offense, but you say other folks have thier head in the sand for offering possible explainations, then offer up “something ain’t right”?
And LSU’s starting QB kicked off our team…..yea…..and? What point are you making there?
BTW, Alabama has had 2 dozen players transfer out or leave the team in the past couple of years, and I would suspect UF wasn’t that far behind.
AltamahaDawg
July 23rd, 2012
4:03 pm
Although I admit I dont know if that was exactly the “past 2 years”. Should have said” in a 2 yr period, recently.”
1cTide
July 23rd, 2012
4:12 pm
richt needs to call Nick on how to recruit players with character who stay out of trouble. Alabama never has problems with all these arrests like ga. RTR–going for title #15!!!
AltamahaDawg
July 23rd, 2012
4:39 pm
Well, ignoring those players and grad assistant that got arrested in the past couple of years, that would be true.
ugab
July 23rd, 2012
4:41 pm
Guns at school cannot be allowed, I do not want Athens to end up like Colorado. I don’t know why any school would drug test after spring break. That is discriminating. lol. I hope the best for the Uga program.. Uga will keep losing games with these players being suspended every season. I would love to see a uga football season start with everyone not hurt or suspended.
to ugab
July 23rd, 2012
4:56 pm
You are aware that practically every one of the mass shootings over the past few years have taken place where no one in the crowd was armed. What if just 5% of the people in the Colorado incident had Concealed Carry permits and were packing that night? Look at Virginia Tech. It was like a shooting gallery for the killer, with no one able to shoot back.
In the Mississippi school shooting a number of years ago, the number of deaths was much less than it would have been if a faculty member had not gone to his pickup and got his weapon, resulting in the assailant surrendering.
@ lcTide
July 23rd, 2012
4:59 pm
Some people on here may think you are serious, but most of us saw the humor you were striving for.
Old Dog Class of 80
July 23rd, 2012
6:07 pm
“I don’t know why any school would drug test after spring break. That is discriminating. lol.”
I think we should drug test the entire student body after spring break.
Brainiac(Dawg/Richt fan for life)
July 23rd, 2012
6:21 pm
Bill:
I am elated over this article because it comes from someone very close to the program. Someone I respect!!!
You may remember last year when you wrote the article casting CTG in a negative light over the run-in he had with Vandy coach James Franklin. You booted me for a spell but I believe you had to agree, at least in part, of what I said. CTG was right to stand up for his player that was being personally confronted by Franklin. No HC has the right to personally pounce on another team’s player. I guess my biggest transgression in that matter was name-calling and 3 letter/4letter words.
I can find no part of this article that I don’t agree with and fully believe those that are disagreeing with you are either FOOLS, TROLLS, MENTALLY CHALLENGED. or too damn lazy to research for info/facts.
Thanks man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brainiac(Dawg/Richt fan for life)
July 23rd, 2012
6:31 pm
@ Texas Dawg:
You are dumb enough to be TRIPLETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just put a sock in it!!!!! This is a man’s blog and obviously you aren’t there yet mentally!!!!!!!!!
chazzo
July 23rd, 2012
6:32 pm
ugab,
Guns at school are allowed. Unless they changed the law that was passed a couple of years back, students are allowed to keep guns secured in their vehicles in the state of GA. I believe it is so they can go hunting.
chazzo
July 23rd, 2012
6:33 pm
The above statement is not a defense for Crowell, merely a response to a post about guns at school.
Dawgnow
July 23rd, 2012
6:34 pm
players at other schools like alabama and florida are committing crimes but it all gets covered up to keep their players eligible. the ncaa needs to investigate these corrupt programs.
Brainiac(Dawg/Richt fan for life)
July 23rd, 2012
6:36 pm
@ southgadawg(2:33pm post):
Excellent post Bro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Too bad that some of the DFINO are too stupid to think for themselves rather than just bleating some of the same crap theysee/hear from the rest of their flock!!!!!!!
kingdaddy
July 23rd, 2012
6:52 pm
How many people here think that cops cover for other cops caught for multiple offenses, DWI, SPEEDIND, RECKLESS DRIVING, FOLLOWING TOO CLOSELY, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. THE list goes on and on. They cover for their brother. Maybe not all, but it happens everywhere. Its not a strech to think a cop wouldn’t cover for a major successful university or vice-versa…
Nick
July 23rd, 2012
7:13 pm
I wish Samuel’s runs were as big as his heart…
Tallydawg
July 23rd, 2012
7:40 pm
LSU’s offensive double threat in 2013: Crowell and Mettenberger. Groping teat and packing heat!
Mobile Dawg
July 23rd, 2012
9:27 pm
Well if it’s “just” perception, that should be pretty easily solved. Win some of the “big” games, and bring a championship home. That should “change” the perception.
Brainiac(Dawg/Richt fan for life)
July 23rd, 2012
9:55 pm
@ When I hear the word “cesspool” the only word that comes to mind is”FREDDO”
Brainiac(Dawg/Richt fan for life)
July 23rd, 2012
9:58 pm
@ Kingdaddy:
Only Saban and his ilk know for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kingdaddy
July 23rd, 2012
10:15 pm
Brain
One things for sure, it’s not just the SEC…
Say What???
July 23rd, 2012
11:09 pm
Bill,
Perception isn’t the problem at UGA.
Yes, you are correct in that Crowell (as well as most of the other athletes that UGA recruits) was recruited by a lot of other schools. The problem seems to lie with what the kids do when they GET to Athens. You can have a very tough policy on drug use, but it the rule (or the punishement) wouldn’t go into effect if the players stayed out of trouble to begin with.
People (outside of UGA fans) are pointing out the fact that so many players are getting into trouble…that’s a discipline problem any way you slice it.
Bill…you are nothing more than a spin-meister. I cannot believe that anybody would come to the AJC, read your article, and pretend that it’s journalism. I see where other UGA fans get their propoganda though.
AltamahaDawg
July 24th, 2012
8:02 am
Well, in an odd way, Say Whatt?? is correct. The problem is not that the perception is different because doing the exact same thing is only an considered “in trouble” at schools that chose to have tougher policies, like Georgia. The problem is that doing the exact same thing at Georgia, that kids do at other schools, is known to be reported as trouble here, and yet, occationally our kids still choose to do it.
AltamahaDawg
July 24th, 2012
8:11 am
Mobile, your take is that there could be the exact same issues with kids getting into trouble, but that is nothing that winning more game wouldn’t erase?
Tide is rolling and nothing can stop it
July 24th, 2012
8:35 am
Perception…man you UGA guys are good at excuses.
Chuck
July 24th, 2012
8:57 am
Yeah right, Saban has found a way to keep guys from smoking weed.
He really should share this miracle with the world, if not he’s being very selfish.
DP
July 24th, 2012
8:58 am
Yeah, it’s just a perception problem and Athens is the most heavily policed college town in the country. That’s why when you Google “Georgia football player…” the second and third things that Google pops up to fill in the rest of your search are “arrested” and “suspended”. It’s just a perception problem. And all that undisciplined play on the field has nothing to do with anything either, that’s a vendetta the SEC officials have been carrying against Georgia since Richt had the whole team charge into the end zone after they scored the first touchdown against Florida that time.
Bill King conveniently talks about other coaches who recruited the players that got booted from Georgia without even mentioning the possibility that there might be a difference in how they’re handled once in the program, i.e. are there high expectations or are star players coddled like they were in high school? It is easy to infer from the accounts of his own teammates that Crowell showed up out of shape and didn’t work as hard as he should. And everybody saw him take himself out of games every time he got nicked. But Richt had already showed Crowell the empty backfield when recruiting him and was behind the 8 ball when it came to SEC caliber tailbacks, so Crowell was handed his job. Crowell really respected Richt for it, which is why he turned his back on Richt and walked away when Richt was talking to him on the sidelines.
While it is unlikely Crowell would have panned out any better in Tuscaloosa, I think it’s a pretty sure bet that had he arrived there out of shape and not worked any harder than he did in Athens, he’d have been redshirted and then run off.
Chuck
July 24th, 2012
8:59 am
“Say What??” – maybe if your school had the testicular fortitude to suspend on the first positive drug test (or even test??) you’d have a leg to stand on.
Until then, your program is just not acknowledging their own problem for the sake of winning games.
DP
July 24th, 2012
9:06 am
In addition to Richt’s coddling, and probably in large part because of Richt’s coddling, Georgia is failing to develop the internal leadership. Star high school credentials or not, there should have been some juniors and seniors kicking Crowell’s behind last year and there obviously weren’t. Cut to this summer and you have 3 incoming freshmen riding around Athens with Crowell, learning from him.
DP
July 24th, 2012
9:09 am
Bill, what does it do for discipline, work ethic and morale on the rest of the team when everybody sees a guy handed a position based strictly on talent even though he is out of shape, lazy and undisciplined? That’s just a perception problem, right?
KingDog
July 24th, 2012
10:00 am
they smoke just as much weed in tuscaloosa as athens. in tuscaloosa, the police cover it all up.
AltamahaDawg
July 24th, 2012
10:29 am
DP, you just MADE Bill”s point. Everything you just said was based purely on your own personal opinion, backed up by conjecture. What exactly do you think the term “perception” means?
DP
July 24th, 2012
11:00 am
AltamahaDawg, your track record of IDIOCY remains intact. Bill King notes in his latest column pining for Penn State players that Georgia has fewer players on scholarship than USC which is on probation. But on the other hand, it’s all just a perception problem.
And you people wonder why the rest of the world laughs at Dawg Nation, the most delusional fan base in college football as noted by Stewart Mandel of SI.
AltamahaDawg
July 24th, 2012
11:14 am
What did I say that was wrong?
Tide is rolling and nothing can stop it
July 24th, 2012
11:28 am
KingDog
July 24th, 2012
10:00 am
they smoke just as much weed in tuscaloosa as athens. in tuscaloosa, the police cover it all up.
This is UGA football!
Tide is rolling and nothing can stop it
July 24th, 2012
11:28 am
Excuses, excuses, and more excuses!
DP
July 24th, 2012
11:55 am
AltamahaDelusionalDawg, you said that everything I said was conjecture and opinion and I MADE Bill King’s point.
Is it conjecture and opinion that Mark Richt recruited Isaah Crowell with the empty backfield stunt and was pretty desperate for a top running back recruit?
Is it conjecture and opinion that Isaah Crowell was out of shape (relative to the expectations for an SEC running back) when he reported to UGA and that he didn’t work as hard as he could have and should have? Other UGA players are the ones who made those type of comments about Crowell this spring when he supposedly had seen the light and changed his ways. Were they lying?
Is it conjecture and opinion that after having finally booted the 2 prior multiple offenders at running back King and Ealey that Mark Richt lacked viable SEC quality running back alternatives to Crowell, as evidenced by converting a previously failed running back (Richard Samuel) back from linebacker to running back and running a 5′7″ 150 pound scatback (Carlton Thomas) between the tackles, and that this made it difficult for him to bench Crowell to teach him a lesson?
Is it conjecture and opinion that Crowell turned his back and walked away from Mark Richt while Richt was trying to talk to him on the sidelines, or did we all see that on our TV screens?
Is it conjecture and opinion that when Crowell was arrested with a gun under the driver’s seat he had 3 incoming Georgia freshman football players in the car with him?
AltamahaDawg
July 24th, 2012
12:19 pm
Nice try morphing the argument. The conjucture is not the events, but the conclusions that you draw from those to form purely personal opinions as to the topic. Otherwise known as perception.
Texas DAWG
July 24th, 2012
5:18 pm
@ Brainiac…….real smart post….really shows how much of a brainiac you are…real balls sitting behind a computer! Tell your mama I enjoyed last night!
@AltmahaDawg…….you say Alabama has had all these players kicked off the team…….alot of teams dismiss players……not my issue if you read my post….my issue is or even better let me ask you this…..what if Alabama since you brought them into the discussion had kicked the starting tailback off the team the last four or five seasons like we have……..ask yourself that question……look at who thier starting tailback have been…..Saban usually kicks guys off that don’t contribute…….maybe we have had a bad run of luck……I just don’t like the fact as a Dawg fan we keep loosing all these players…..and I echo my point….something ain’t right
AltamahaDawg
July 25th, 2012
8:35 am
Well who does like it? Who remotely said anything about it being a good thing. Would we be having such a detailed discussion about the whys and the hows if it were no biggie?
I just questioned your post because you were pointing out the non-existant folks have thier head in the sand. I’m guessing you just never read the actual discussion to say that.
And I didnt bring Alabama into the discussion, you did. I just responded to your comment: “imagine if (they) had lost that many player….why imagine? they have, give or take.
And now you got us up to 5 seasons in a row dismissing our “starting” TB, huh?
Texas DAWG
July 25th, 2012
1:58 pm
Name on team…one that has lost the starting three “starting” tailbacks (King, Ealey, Crowell) and one that got alot of playing (Thomas) and two 4 star recruits in the last four seasons. I’m talking one postion………..I’m not talking about players that never even set one foot on the field being kicked off a team I’m not saying that other teams don’t kick players what I am saying if you can read….. is that based off the numbers we have had an issue at tailback…….hope the issue is mute after this season! Crowell looked really good when healthy….hoope marshall and gurley have his talent without all the problem issues!
Texas DAWG
July 25th, 2012
2:08 pm
and by the way….din’t bring bama into the discussion……don’t know where you got the impression that I was saying any of theses issue are a “good thing”?
The statement about havining your head in the sand is based off Dawg fans thinking the issue is with everyone else….police target players….everyone else recruits the same guys…ect…ect….but yet based off the data…..the numbers….and numbers don’t lie……………….something ain’t righ……………..t when it comes to the issue of tailbacks at UGA…………..hope it’s water under the bridge…….GO DAWGS!!!!!!!
AltamahaDawg
July 26th, 2012
8:38 am
It just struck me odd to out some folks for “sticking thier head in the sand”, when they offer a multitude of factors that helps put thing into perspective, but yet NOT be able to disagree with thier points on merit.
AltamahaDawg
July 26th, 2012
8:48 am
And I realize NOW you are narrowing the debate to only TB, BUT you origially were talking about the number of player across the board. You specifically brought up Mett. and ” how many of of our 4 star and 5 star players have either left or been kicked off the team”. Thats a much larger indictment that just the oddity of the TB position.
“but just imagine it was LSU…BAMA…Floridia ect…that lost had the same amount of players”
Don’t tell me I brought Alabama into the discussion, when I simply pointed out that 2 of the teams that YOU named have lost (almost) that “same amount of players”.